From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 03:19:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h318JWMX020160 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 03:19:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h317KoKo008062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:20:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h317Kifj020313; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h317Kffj020269 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:20:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030401072036.91178.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 08:20:36 BST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:20:36 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Knight's tale To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <75.dc85c24.2bba29fc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/31/2003 3:39:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jessicastier@hotmail.com writes: > > > > I have the DVD "A Knight's Tale" and I love it! > > Well, I guess SOMEBODY has to.... ;-) Ha! ha! *laughs* I have the opposite opinion again! We are doing good here, AbertCat. I adore the film, it's SO funny, but I do agree with the comments on the lead female: dreadful! She can't even act a little bit and those costumes are plain awful (not even funny) still, who cares, I take 'Chaucer' any day. Scrawny and gangly but ever so yummy *G* > Like the dreadful "First Knight" I simply cannot watch the thing. Would you believe it, I agree with you on 'first knight', hate it, but love 'knight's tale'. > But I'm not being judgmental really. I have my guilty pleasures....Like the > David Lynch film of "Dune". Why guilty???? Why ever feeling guilty for liking or disliking things? Why aplying huge disclaimers for stating one's own opinion? Heck, we don't live in dictatorships yet, now do we? Come to think of it... but let's best not go there. So, long live personal opinions, and hey, I like Dune too, but that's because of Sting. Some of my fav pictures are Restoration, Prince's Bride (Inigo Montoya, yay!) Robin of Sherwood (wait, that's TV), Much Ado about Nothig, Henry V (!!!), and yes, I do admit it, despite Kevin Costner *blech* Robin Hood, prince of Thieves, but then I like anything with Michael Wincott with long black hair and on a horse, really *L* Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 05:23:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31ANRMX008817 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:23:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h319NuKo013802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 02:23:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h319NrJc000322; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 02:23:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h319NoJc000308 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 02:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-220.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.239.220])h319NnHp017877 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 01:23:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030401012301.05535a00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 01:23:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons In-Reply-To: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Up for sale on ebay at the moment is a bone with a number of holes in it >described as a bone button making fragment. > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=115&item=3216597228&rd=1 > >My assumption would be buttons made this way would have to have two holes >in them for thread to attach them to the garment, no shanks. I was under >the impression that such drilled buttons were at least 17th century. Does >anyone know of drilled buttons from the 15th century? Or perhaps another >way to attach round buttons obtained this way? I have to wonder how they think it's 15th century, not, say, nineteenth century, which would be my guess. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 08:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31DdrMX023539 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:39:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31CfIKo001837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:41:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31CfH1C015966; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:41:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31CSB1C007431 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:28:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h31CS9p07967.; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:28:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:28:09 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:27:52 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Boleyn Girl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h31CSB1C007431 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> brujne@creighton.edu 03/31/03 07:04pm >>> >Could someone on the list in the UK post their impressions of the TV >programme "The Other Boleyn Girl"? This has been discussed in the thread "Tonight's UK television". In answer to Jean, yes, in one scene where Mary walked away from the camera you could see the ends of her long hair hanging below the velvet hood. I asked because I wasn't sure whether it was wrong, but thought it more likely a married woman would put up her hair. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 08:40:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31De2MX023544 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31CfQKo001854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:41:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31CfQ1C016004; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:41:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31CU41C008503 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from p19-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.83] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190Ktr-0000XE-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 00:30:00 +1200 Message-ID: <003401c2f84a$6a050f20$53ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:29:59 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kia ora all, I don't know if I've asked this here, but is anyone aware of a "Worth Collection in Paris? I'm looking at page 650 of Davenport's History of costume (the pattern and what looks to be extant costume) of a 17thC Spanish gown. It's in the style of the 1650s but the caption says first quarter 17thC and that it's in "Paris, Worth Coll." I'm guessing Coll. is short for collection. This dress has intrigued me for nearly a decade yet I cannot find any more info on it. Please please if anyone knows anything more about this dress I'm really wanting to know more. The Gown appears to be modelled by a real person too... michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 08:50:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31DoVMX023603 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:50:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31CpnKo002251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31Cpn1C019242; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:51:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31Cpk1C019175 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.111] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8A833B600E0; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 07:40:08 -0500 Message-ID: <003c01c2f84e$03039860$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3E865FAE.46FF9B6C@dandy.net> <3.0.6.32.20030331182014.00cf40b0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silky Tassel Material? Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:55:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Margo, I have made quick long tassels from rayon fringe. You can find it in 12" , 18, or upwards. Half yard lengths give a decent swing (for one). Just roll and stitch firmly. You can wrap the sewn bit with other fibers or make a cover piece from scraps of your dress. I forget the period of your dress, but I have seen 'tails' of marabou(like three) cut in 14" strips attached to the tips of the main boa. This was a gown of the 1912-15 era. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:20 PM Subject: [h-cost] Silky Tassel Material? > My new feather boa just arrived! This is for my 1920's Queen Latifahesque > gown, for the Saturday Night social at Costume Con. > > Unfortunately, at 6 feet long, it seems a bit short for my sumptuous > proportions. I've seen, in a book from the period, a feather boa with long > (12"+) silk tassels on both ends, and I'd like to add some to mine. Can > anyone suggest a source for thread or cord to make them ? I'm running a > bit tight on both cash and time, so I'd prefer a non mail order solution, > and a reasonable substitute for silk is fine. Do yarn shops have anything > that would work? Any other suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 09:01:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31E1wMX023680 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:01:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31D3LKo002671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:03:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31D3K1Y023017; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31D3H1Y023001 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.84.106.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.84.106] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 190LQ4-0003gk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 05:03:17 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030331143830.03e4ceb8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:44:46 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Hem lines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo writes: >There is a tool that marks skirts that I have seen for sale at fabric >stores but >have never tried. It is a hem marker that you stand next to and you have it >blow chalk marks at your skirt as you turn around. These have been around *at least* since I was a little girl (2-3 years old). Mom and her mother (may Grandma rest in peace) used to mark each other's hems this way fairly well. I've tried marking Mom's skirts (and mine) this way, and have only come up with disasters. Here are some caveats based on my disasters: 1. If you rotate yourself and keep the stick in place, and your skirt has any fullness to it, your markings will come out uneven. 2. If you move the marker, but stay still, if you accidentally move the skirts while doing so, your markings will come out uneven. 3. If the marking stick's distance from the fabric changes over the course of your measurement, your markings will come out uneven. 4. If you move, your markings will come out uneven. Brenda Faith Bell webwarren@earthlink.net Consultant, The Web Warren http://www.webwarren.com/ arachne@webwarren.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 10:09:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31F9qMX024045 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:09:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EBDKo006904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EBBtC016921; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EB9tC016852 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12724 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:28:26 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:28:26 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been contacted by a researcher working on a series for BBC 2 on medieval people. Among other things, she's looking for a female re-enactor in the UK she can interview for the show. She needs someone who has got historically accurate kit (as authentic as possible) and can talk knowledgeably about the clothing a gentry-level woman would wear and how she carries out daily tasks. The idea would be to show how the layering, etc. allows for practicality as well as display. (The aim of the series is to contrast some of the common popular "medieval" stereotypes with reality. So, folks, here's your chance to get some good information out there.) I have already done some checking around and found some excellent living history groups in England, but all of them have a focus of Norman period or earlier. In this case, we need someone much later -- mid-15th century would be ideal, though we could manage something around 1400. Think on the line of Margaret Paston -- country gentry, lady of the house. Naturally I need contacts right away. ;-) Thanks for any leads. You may feel free to repost this note on other relevant groups, but remember that we want ONLY someone focused on well-researched, exact costume. I gather she does *not* want someone to play a persona or describe any sort of modern re-enactment events. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 10:11:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31FBJMX024054 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:11:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31ECOKo006970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31ECOtC017460; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com [66.96.128.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31ECMtC017433 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17163 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2003 14:06:07 -0000 Received: from dialup-64.156.33.86.dial1.denver1.level3.net (HELO costumepress.com) (64.156.33.86) by -H with SMTP; 1 Apr 2003 14:06:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3E899E3C.E5C0644F@costumepress.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 07:12:12 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> <003401c2f84a$6a050f20$53ccadcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I am thinking of the same dress you are thinking of, it was exhibited at the Museum of the City of New York some years ago in their big shindig on Worth. I thought they owned it because the gown itself was made for a "fancy dress ball" thrown in New York City by Alva Vanderbilt in 1898 (?). Hope this helps, MD/Marged _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 10:11:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31FBoMX024058 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:11:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31ED8Ko007023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31ED5tC017702; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:13:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31ED1tC017670 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-003-023.jps.net ([216.119.3.23] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 190MVY-0006yD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 06:13:01 -0800 Message-ID: <001001c2f85a$61938c80$170377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030401012301.05535a00@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:24:16 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somehow, I think I have seen a similar object dated that far back, but memory is sketchy and now I'm curious about the subject. Another item in my mental list to look out for. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons > > >Up for sale on ebay at the moment is a bone with a number of holes in it > >described as a bone button making fragment. > > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=115&item=3216597228& rd=1 > > > >My assumption would be buttons made this way would have to have two holes > >in them for thread to attach them to the garment, no shanks. I was under > >the impression that such drilled buttons were at least 17th century. Does > >anyone know of drilled buttons from the 15th century? Or perhaps another > >way to attach round buttons obtained this way? > > I have to wonder how they think it's 15th century, not, say, nineteenth > century, which would be my guess. > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 10:16:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31FGHMX024068 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:16:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EHLKo007326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EHKtC019260; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EHItC019214 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.192.182c674b (25508) for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:17:02 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <192.182c674b.2bbaf95e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:17:02 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Knight's tale To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/1/2003 4:34:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > Some of my fav pictures are Restoration, Prince's Bride (Inigo Montoya, > yay!) > Robin of Sherwood (wait, that's TV), Much Ado about Nothig, Henry V (!!!), > and > yes, I do admit it, despite Kevin Costner *blech* Robin Hood, prince of > Thieves, but then I like anything with Michael Wincott with long black hair > and > on a horse, really *L* > Hmmmmmm...seems you'd want as LITTLE costuming as possible....on the leading men that is! Calm down, Girlfriend!!! [I'm teasing you, you realize.] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 10:19:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31FJmMX024081 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:19:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EKvKo007706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EKvtC020951; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EKstC020937 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-003-023.jps.net ([216.119.3.23] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 190MdB-0002NQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 06:20:54 -0800 Message-ID: <001f01c2f85b$7b9d1640$170377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <156E1648-6409-11D7-A59C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Classes in Brisbane AU Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:32:10 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Morteon Institute of TAFE offers an industry based fashion program which is in Mt. Gravatt a suburb of Brisbane. It offers day and evening classes including all the standard patternmaking courses. You don't actually have to be "offered" a spot to take a course although the literature often makes it seem that way. It's worth talking to the department to get in. Chris something or other is the flat-pattern instructor and she is super. Most of the people there have worked in industry/production and it shows. The slopers they use there have seam allowances because it is faster to make patterns that way. You only have to add allowances where you cut or slash etc.... it took some getting used to. Queensland University of Technology in the city of Brisbane was just about to open a university degree program when I left that was more design based. One would probably have to be a full time "college" student to participate.......but also worth trying. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:13 PM Subject: [h-cost] Classes in Brisbane AU > > I got email from someone via my website who is looking for > recommendations for sewing/pattern drafting classes in > the Brisbane, Australia area. Anyone from around there on > the list? > > > Heather > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 10:55:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31Ft8MX024210 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:55:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EunKo010269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EumEY005463; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:56:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31EuiEY005426 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13053 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:14:02 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:14:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] attn Robin - a woman's parti colored dress In-Reply-To: <00e001c2f7db$feba0ea0$b30f77d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > I was looking through Medieval Panorama edited by Robert Bartlett 2001 > and came across a 14th century Italian painting described as the > wedding night. I has a woman in a navy and red parti colored gown > pulling back the curtains from the bed for the newlywed couple. Not > really a Gothic Fitted Dress, a bit looser, and it looks like she > might have gores under her sleeves. You've probably seen it but I > thought I would point it out anyway. The only one in the book! Thanks! I haven't seen this book. There are a handful of Italian dresses that have "interesting" sectioning of different colors, and not always split vertically down the middle. There doesn't seem to be much equivalent in Western Europe. Italian fashion is a thing unto itself... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 11:17:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31GHZMX024344 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:17:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FI2Ko011822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FI1EY016129; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h316kIPn007029 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-106-72.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.106.72]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABG07658; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:44:30 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <012301c2f81a$85e1c880$486a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:47:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 08:17:59 -0700 Subject: [h-cost] Silver clay workshop in the UK X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm planning to run a Silver clay workshop later in the Spring for anyone interested. Silver clay is a new product you shape your item from a special clat, fire it and it turns to pure silver. This is a great way of reproducing costuming items such as brooches, chatelaines, rings, you name it, without being a jewwller. The clay (like any silver) isn't cheap buit it is 100% silver and can be hallmarked If you are interested please let me know with any free dates at weekends you have circa May June Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 11:18:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31GICMX024347 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:18:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FIpKo011936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:18:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FIpEY016558; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:18:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31FIfEY016438 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:18:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030401151836.4790.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 16:18:36 BST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:18:36 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hate to disillusion you, but a) most of the time those series are never as good as they claim they will be, and b) they usually never pay properly and c) good luck finding the right people... Sorry for being no help and sounding sarcastic, I just meant to warn you not to believe too much even BBC people are telling you. *S* I might be totally wrong this time though, one never knows. Nicole --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > I've been contacted by a researcher working on a series for BBC 2 on > medieval people. > > Among other things, she's looking for a female re-enactor in the UK she > can interview for the show. She needs someone who has got historically > accurate kit (as authentic as possible) and can talk knowledgeably about > the clothing a gentry-level woman would wear and how she carries out daily > tasks. The idea would be to show how the layering, etc. allows for > practicality as well as display. (The aim of the series is to contrast > some of the common popular "medieval" stereotypes with reality. So, folks, > here's your chance to get some good information out there.) > > I have already done some checking around and found some excellent living > history groups in England, but all of them have a focus of Norman period > or earlier. In this case, we need someone much later -- mid-15th century > would be ideal, though we could manage something around 1400. Think on the > line of Margaret Paston -- country gentry, lady of the house. > > Naturally I need contacts right away. ;-) > > Thanks for any leads. You may feel free to repost this note on other > relevant groups, but remember that we want ONLY someone focused on > well-researched, exact costume. I gather she does *not* want someone to > play a persona or describe any sort of modern re-enactment events. > > --Robin > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 11:20:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31GKSMX024355 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:20:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FLeKo012133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:21:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FLdEY017961; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:21:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31FLaEY017858 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:21:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030401152130.32690.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 16:21:30 BST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:21:30 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Knight's tale To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <192.182c674b.2bbaf95e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/1/2003 4:34:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, > nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > Hmmmmmm...seems you'd want as LITTLE costuming as possible....on the leading > men that is! Calm down, Girlfriend!!! > > [I'm teasing you, you realize.] *laughs loudly* Well, actually I prefer my leading men with a cool costume, like those Spanish conquistadore type outfits, oh my... in 1492. Okay so I admit it, Chaucer isn't that particularly well-costumed at the beginning *BG* Men in costumes are sexier than men without any thead of clothing most of teh time. :-) Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 11:31:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31GVPMX024398 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:31:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FWbKo013152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:32:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FWZEY023687; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:32:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31FWYEY023674 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 190NkW-0001IK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 07:32:33 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:32:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c2f863$ea112c80$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Neckline of Coronation Tunic of Henry II-another picture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.saragrace.net/images/HII_CorTunic2.JPG This isn't a great picture either, but you can see some things in it that you can't see in others. This is the Davenport picture. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 12:09:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31H92MX024636 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:09:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31G6JKo016061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:06:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31G6HpG012804; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31G6DpG012757 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.167] (pm5-167.eos.net [205.133.149.167]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06896 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:05:41 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 11:02:14 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304010219.h312JKxG018624@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: a knight's tale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't like Shannon S's gowns either, but I loved the movie. I thought the approach to the costumes was the same as the approach to everything else. Those folks knew what they were doing, they did their research and then they had fun with it without violating any of the conventions of the knightly tale. How often does that happen in historical movies??? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 12:15:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31HFnMX024682 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:15:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31GBvKo016616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:11:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31GBupG015951; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:11:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31GBrpG015834 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-106-53.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.106.53]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABG67834; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:11:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ad01c2f869$c40aeca0$356a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:14:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes I have SO many calls from production companies wanting serious re-enactors to do a show, which saddly translates to any fool out there willing to cut our costs by giving up their time for free and paying their own expenses. Sorry I no longer suggest anyone goes for these unless I know the pay on offer. Hate to be negative but it is getting so common. Maybe as Nicole sayes this might be an expection Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 12:38:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31HcRMX024775 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:38:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31GdeKo019310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:39:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31GddpG003483; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31GdYpG003424 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:39:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13544 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:56:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:56:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors In-Reply-To: <20030401151836.4790.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > I hate to disillusion you, but a) most of the time those series are > never as good as they claim they will be, and b) they usually never > pay properly and c) good luck finding the right people... I'm aware of that, and I know what you're thinking of. In this case, they're not looking for actors to play roles or provide "color" or "atmosphere." They're looking for an individual expert to *interview* regarding the topic of dress, which is one angle they intend to cover in an examination of medieval women's lives. It is not a paid appearance. Academics do these sorts of interviews frequently, and this researcher started her hunt by calling an academic specialist in medieval costume in the UK. That person referred her to me, since I am more accustomed to talking about "daily life" issues for laypeople. The researcher interviewed me at length for background information, but since I'm on the wrong side of the water, I can't do any on-camera time. What she wants is an equivalent to me -- someone who can describe the clothing and show how it works with well-made reproduction costume. The series actually sounds pretty promising. Each segment will focus on one medieval stereotype (the minstrel, the knight, the doctor -- this one is the "damsel") and compare the popular image to reality. The researcher I'm dealing with was particularly interested in what I had to say about the Pre-Raphaelite influence on modern people's impressions of what "medieval" clothing looks like, since that's exactly what they want to contrast with the reality. I believe she said the narrator for the series will be Terry Jones. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 13:13:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31IDGMX024919 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:13:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31HCHKo022849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:12:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31HCGWo025920; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41508.mail.yahoo.com (web41508.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31HCCWo025815 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:12:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030401171207.49200.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:12:07 BST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:12:07 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > I'm aware of that, and I know what you're thinking of. In this case, > they're not looking for actors to play roles or provide "color" or > "atmosphere." They're looking for an individual expert to *interview* > regarding the topic of dress, which is one angle they intend to cover in > an examination of medieval women's lives. It is not a paid appearance. Yes Robin, EXACTLY, Mel and I know exactly what they want and what you mean and it does not surprise me that they don't even pay. You don't live here in the UK, so you don't kow about the gazillions of programmes who all use re-enactors. Some for the colour, others for the 'academia' and very rarely does it seem to be worthwhile. I know many re-enactors and living historians who have appeared in TV and film, been there, done that got the (Time Team!) t-shirt and won't ever do it again. > Academics do these sorts of interviews frequently, and this researcher > started her hunt by calling an academic specialist in medieval costume in > the UK. That person referred her to me, since I am more accustomed to > talking about "daily life" issues for laypeople. The researcher > interviewed me at length for background information, but since I'm on the > wrong side of the water, I can't do any on-camera time. What she wants is > an equivalent to me -- someone who can describe the clothing and show how > it works with well-made reproduction costume. Then look for an academic not for a re-enactor. I'm sorry Robin, but I have heard that one too as well. Still, let's cross our fingers that you'll find someone. And yes I know about proper academics' appearances, my supervisor, amongst many others, is frequently on when it's about women in early modern England. > The series actually sounds pretty promising. Each segment will focus on > one medieval stereotype (the minstrel, the knight, the doctor -- this one > is the "damsel") and compare the popular image to reality. The researcher > I'm dealing with was particularly interested in what I had to say about > the Pre-Raphaelite influence on modern people's impressions of what > "medieval" clothing looks like, since that's exactly what they want to > contrast with the reality. Let's hope that it will be good, I'm certainly always interested in a good programme. Did you see 'two men in a trench'? Wasn't too bad actually, still we declined, they wanted to wear our costumes for the Battle of the Boyne, nah.... because they were loathe to pay the insurance money for the thousands of pounds the costumes are worth *L* I do cross my fingers and wish you and the BBC team all the best, Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 13:30:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31IUwMX024999 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:30:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31HW1Ko025645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31HW0Wo009188; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31HVrWo009079 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-106-53.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.106.53]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABG76091; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:31:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <016301c2f874$f35abca0$356a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401171207.49200.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:34:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It is not a paid appearance. No surprise there then I know from the other side (several of my family & friends are in production) how some production companies laugh at re-enactors as free meat As I understand it the BBC has a public charter specifically making it a public service (we paid a licence fee to support them for heavens sake) I believe it is morally incorrect to ask anyone to perform for free. >. I know many re-enactors and living historians who have appeared in TV and film, been there, done that got the (Time Team!) t-shirt and won't ever do it again. I think most of us in the UK , seems to me without wishing to be over cynical that is why they might be looking overseas. With the greatest respect to you Robin & your research(which I admire), there are plenty of costume historians in the UK, and many Universities full of acedemics and web pages and magazines full of re-enactors in the UK. > Academics do these sorts of interviews frequently, But not for free if they are really any good. Does Mike Aston appear for free ? Trouble is with doing it for free you get people who are more interested in the appearance than the research. All research costs money (as we all know to our cost in books etc) and the production companies who won't recognise this really are insulting people and saying their knowledge is worthless. I'm quite sure the researcher(your contact) for the program is paid ? >. Each segment will focus on > one medieval stereotype (the minstrel, the knight, the doctor -- this one > is the "damsel") and compare the popular image to reality. If they allowed budget for the 'experts' these shows could be really good, sadly they don't and they fall short of what they could be :( Last few freebies asked for did anyone else get collared ? History of the Clevage A Victorian BBC production Cavalry requirments for various periods Bodecia (sp?) Zen program Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 13:44:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31IirMX025070 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:44:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31Hk3Ko027467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31HjxWo018767; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:45:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31HjuWo018729 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:45:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-251-195.s195.tnt2.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.251.195] helo=rcn.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 190Ppb-0003Fy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:45:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3E89D064.2090907@rcn.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:46:12 -0500 From: Catelli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200303311452.h2VEqaES003347@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Posture Pictures Re: Average Sizes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Many women's colleges took posture pictures, but not measurements. The Smith Alumnae Magazine had an article about their taking posture pictures several years back. Ann in CT Smith '87 no posture pictures for me--or many years previously, either _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 14:01:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31J1rMX025127 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:01:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31I0cKo029100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31I0bhl028748; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31I0Xhl028705 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:00:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13976 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:17:51 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:17:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors In-Reply-To: <016301c2f874$f35abca0$356a4ed5@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, Melanie, I am squarely in your court about not expecting performances for free. I wouldn't have passed this on if it were a request for performers. I see an interview as something very different. But then, I am a journalist by trade, and I have spent much of my life interviewing experts who know their fields and are interested in seeing accurate descriptions of their work in documentary media. (My field is magazine journalism, so "performance" isn't an issue there.) > I think most of us in the UK , seems to me without wishing to be over > cynical that is why they might be looking overseas. > > With the greatest respect to you Robin & your research(which I > admire), there are plenty of costume historians in the UK, and many > Universities full of acedemics and web pages and magazines full of > re-enactors in the UK. Well, as I noted earlier, the researcher began by contacting a well-known UK academic in the field of historic dress. That academic, a close colleague of mine, referred the researcher to me because she felt I was the best person (despite my location) to answer that researcher's specific questions. So the researcher did not come "looking overseas." And she was looking for an expert, not a re-enactor. She then asked who in the UK would be an equivalent person to me whom she could interview for camera. I happen to have a very high opinion of some of the re-enactment work being done in the UK, and told her that if she wanted good information from someone who is accustomed to explaining things to laypeople, these are the people to talk with. I do believe the thought of re-enactors had not even entered her mind. And when I mentioned it, she assumed I meant performers, and made it very clear she's not looking for a performance. Think of it this way: If she were working in a later period where extant clothing was plentiful, she might interview a museum curator who would show objects in the collection and talk about how they were worn. That interview would not be a paid service (unless the museum curator also provided consulting work, etc.). For medieval, the closest she can get would be to interview someone who is knowledgeable about the field and can show reproduction pieces. I frankly think that the best re-enactors in the UK would be better than any of the academics I can think of, all of whom specialize deeply in some particular area and may not be as good at describing how the clothes would behave in life. > > Academics do these sorts of interviews frequently, > > But not for free if they are really any good. Actually, yes, we do. It's part of our "job description." When I was working full-time for magazines, I interviewed academics frequently. We never paid our sources for that. By conrast, if we wanted someone to *write* an article, or review one for accuracy, or to otherwise supply services (e.g. hosting a show), that's a paying job. I've done those too, from both sides -- as the service provider and as the person hiring. I would put re-enactment performance in the category of paid service, no question. Or costume design or consultation. Or anything that required scripting or rehearsal. But an interview is quite different. Now, it may be that I'm completely wrong about what these people are looking for. If so, I hope whomever they approach will set them straight. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 14:30:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31JUFMX025275 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:30:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31IVGKo002611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:31:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31IVChl019708; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31IV9hl019612 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:31:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-115-64.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.115.64]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABG81805; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:30:59 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <01ce01c2f87d$37a42560$356a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:33:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I see an interview as something very different. But then, I am a journalist by trade, and I have spent much of my life interviewing experts who know their fields and are interested in seeing accurate descriptions of their work in documentary media Again I assume you were paid for your trade ? Again I do believe magazines do pay for certain stories if they are worth having. Some experts will give interviews but in many cases this is to promote a book or something similar (here at least) Actually most journalists motives arn't high on my admire list I'm afraid, having been on the intrusive end of journos a few times. >If she were working in a later period where extant clothing was plentiful, she might interview a museum curator who would show objects in the collection and talk about how they were worn. That interview would not be a paid service Most museum curators in the UK are paid, all be it not particularly well, and promoting their collection is part of their job description in my book. >Actually, yes, we do. It's part of our "job description." Well US acedemics might,. most if not all UK acedemics I have spoken to on the subject would rarely if ever do this for free and if they did would generally have a motive (eg book) >Now, it may be that I'm completely wrong about what these people are looking for. It still remains a freebie. Who can blame them if I knew of a great fabric store that gave fabric away I'd keep going back ! But other fabric stores would be somewhat cheesed off I think. I'm happy to give my time to people genuinly interested it things, but when you constantly see people making money out of you willingness to educate others (and often with films having your words twisted) you get jaded. It is nice you don't feel that way. Maybe I'm jusy old & bitter & twisted :) Last posting on list from me on this I've aired my feelings ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 15:13:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31KDWMX025496 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:13:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31JAFKo006889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31JA8Ra016824; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31J9kRa016549 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14269 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:27:05 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:27:05 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors In-Reply-To: <01ce01c2f87d$37a42560$356a4ed5@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Melanie Wilson wrote: > Again I assume you were paid for your trade ? When I produce an article, I educate myself on the topic through library and other research, seek out opinions and information from many individuals, conduct interviews, balance contrasting views and represent them fairly, organize the material, and write it coherently and grammatically, according to the required length, style, reading level, and time frame. For this work I am paid. When I interview someone, or when a journalist interviews me as part of this process, the journalist is paid. The interviewee is not. What I give up as an interviewee is maybe a half-hour or hour of my time, in exchange for having my views and information represented. If I don't think that's a worthwhile thing, I don't do the interview. If a journalist asks me to do research, organize information, provide extensive consultation, help with article planning, or review drafts, I am paid. This is a separate process from any interviews, and in some cases it means I am not quoted in the article because I have become part of the process of creating the article, and it's necessary to avoid conflict of interest. I have done both paid and unpaid work in my role as a costume researcher, in accordance with the categories above. > Again I do believe magazines do pay for certain stories if they are > worth having. Some experts will give interviews but in many cases this > is to promote a book or something similar (here at least) > > Actually most journalists motives arn't high on my admire list I'm > afraid, having been on the intrusive end of journos a few times. >From what I've seen of a lot of British journalists, I wouldn't want to be considered in the same field as them. It's very, very different. In many cases, paying a source for an interview here would be tantamount to ruining the credibility of the story. It's called "checkbook journalism," and it's severely frowned upon. > Well US acedemics might,. most if not all UK acedemics I have spoken > to on the subject would rarely if ever do this for free and if they > did would generally have a motive (eg book) They wouldn't give an interview for free? I'm stunned. That's not the impression I get from any of the academics I know (including in the UK). Now, giving a lecture would be another matter, or writing something, or doing research work, or reviewing material. But we all present papers for free, and typically contribute articles to books and journals at our own expense (for photo permissions, etc.). We supply information on request to other researchers and (often) members of the public, depending on the intended use. It's part of the territory. (This puts me at a severe disadvantage, because I'm not affiliated with an institution that has a budget for conference travel and publication expenses.) > I'm happy to give my time to people genuinly interested it things, but > when you constantly see people making money out of you willingness to > educate others (and often with films having your words twisted) you > get jaded. It is nice you don't feel that way. Maybe I'm jusy old & > bitter & twisted :) I gather a lot has to do with how frequently you've been approached -- and obviously a lot by people who don't treat you well. From what you've described, I don't blame you at all for your reaction. And it's a real pity. I know how frustrated we all get when media present costume information incorrectly because they don't know who to ask or don't realize that their sources are outdated; people like you are among the best resources out there. We don't have nearly so many opportunities to be interviewed on medieval culture here. Not too many documentary makers for that period on these shores ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 15:46:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31KkIMX025687 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:46:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31JlGKo011941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:47:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31JlFK3012111; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:47:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31JlCK3012078 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:47:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 30812 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2003 19:47:12 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 2003 19:47:12 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-199.sonic.net [209.148.112.199]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h31JlBf00652 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:47:11 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401113145.00b0fd60@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 11:48:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors In-Reply-To: References: <01ce01c2f87d$37a42560$356a4ed5@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I missed the beginning of this discussion but--there are journalists who research in various places, perhaps interview various people, grasp the subject as thoroughly as they can, and then sit down and write an article. Which to me seems perfectly ethical. Then there are "journalists" who want the "interviewee" to write the article for them. Sometimes this is transcribing words from an oral interview with one person and doing no further research. Sometimes it's taking an Internet post or two and turning it into an article, with no further work than a little cutting and pasting. Sometimes the journalist gives the "interviewee" some credit, sometimes not. But they always take all the pay. It's even been suggested to me by an editor that I write (regular!) articles for her antiques newspaper, and she'd "rewrite them a little in her own words" and publish them as her articles solely under her own name, and take all the payment. When I pointed out that I'm an equally professional writer and this was not a fair deal for me, she said that she was required to write a lot of articles but "just didn't have the time" and couldn't pay me for my work because she "just didn't have the budget." I was astounded that it did not occur to her that there was no benefit to me in this arrangement. What I'm getting at is, there are some thoroughly exploitive people who call themselves "journalists" and who do no more work than those high school students who pull their papers off net websites. Often they _do_ ask permission, but they still aggressively exploit other people's work and expertise on as regular a basis as they can. So, if anyone wants to "interview" you, or "use that message you posted on the net the other day" find out exactly what they want to do with your work, what's in the deal for them, and what's in it for you. Because if all you want to do is express your opinions and don't want to get paid, you can do it yourself on the net under your own name any day. Fran > > I'm happy to give my time to people genuinly interested it things, but > > when you constantly see people making money out of you willingness to > > educate others (and often with films having your words twisted) you > > get jaded. It is nice you don't feel that way. Maybe I'm jusy old & > > bitter & twisted :) > >I gather a lot has to do with how frequently you've been approached -- and >obviously a lot by people who don't treat you well. From what you've >described, I don't blame you at all for your reaction. And it's a real >pity. I know how frustrated we all get when media present costume >information incorrectly because they don't know who to ask or don't >realize that their sources are outdated; people like you are among the >best resources out there. Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 15:50:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31KoBMX025721 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:50:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31JpDKo012321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:51:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31JpCK3014570; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:51:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from providenceday.org (cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31Jp9K3014540 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:51:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.154.67.195] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 130838 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 14:51:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:51:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] V-backed 'partlet'? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030331161343.00af4148@64.87.54.245> Message-Id: <47FC1292-647B-11D7-9F1C-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 07:15 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 04:00 PM 3/31/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> It is from " De Tresoor van Jacob Jansz Poortvliet" written and >> illustrated by Rien Poortvliet (famous Dutch painter). > > That's the same as "Daily Life in Holland in the Year 1566"? I love > the book with the many wonderful illustrations. And to think it can be > found in the children's sections of book stores. If the book stockers > only knew the scenes inside. > Well, Amazon.com has it listed at @39.95, for sale (used) at $123.69???? Available at Half.com for $79.00. Currently out of stock at Barnes and Noble and Powell's. Guess that mean's ILL for me! Jessamyn/Grace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 16:36:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31LaGMX025888 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31KacKo016885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31KaaA4014446; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:36:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31KaXA4014395 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20030401203630053005mg9he>; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:36:30 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030401123348.00a68ec0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:34:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1911 children's clothes In-Reply-To: <005c01c2f758$8ae45e00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <20030331030647.18581.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO what about looking in a sears catalog from that year? aren't some of them on the web? At 02:38 AM 3/31/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Cassandra, > >Susan is working on re-vamping our 1912 children's right now. Please write >her at susan@costumegallery.com . We also have some children's in the 1908 >area in the library. There's probably more... I am just really tired and >can't think. I am sorry... its been a really long day. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 17:16:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31MGDMX026057 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:16:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31L6uKo020799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31L6oxE005287; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31L6lxE005248 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:06:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.3.143.32] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:06:44 PST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:06:44 -0800 (PST) From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304011900.h31J0uRc009924@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoth Michaela> I don't know if I've asked this here, but is anyone aware of a "Worth Collection in Paris? I'm looking at page 650 of Davenport's History of costume (the pattern and what looks to be extant costume) of a 17thC Spanish gown. It's in the style of the 1650s but the caption says first quarter 17thC and that it's in "Paris, Worth Coll." Did you try correlating Davenport's pic with any of the Musee de la Mode et du Costume in Paris? This collection is housed in the NW wing of the Louvre. I dont recall a gown of that description when I was there or in my rather general catalog. I would look again, however, all my books are in storage while our house undergoes chronic severe restoration. Anyway, Musee de la Mode has a large Worth collection. The Gallerie Layfayette frequently does histories of Haute Couture collections. That's where I'd look first. I have another catalog(?), that I cant recall the name of, covering the houses, founders' careers & house masterpieces of Worth, Doucet and Pingat. Look there as well? Bonne chance! ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 17:44:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31MikMX026232 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:44:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LiXKo024953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:44:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LiUxE000560; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LiPxE000499 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:44:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 190TYO-000OzK-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 22:44:24 +0100 Message-ID: <$ga5uvWfegi+IwNv@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:41:51 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] UK Boleyn Girl References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote >Cindy wrote: > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> brujne@creighton.edu 03/31/03 07:04pm >>> >>Could someone on the list in the UK post their impressions of the TV >>>programme "The Other Boleyn Girl"? > >This has been discussed in the thread "Tonight's UK television". > >In answer to Jean, yes, in one scene where Mary walked away from the >camera you could see the ends of her long hair hanging below the velvet >hood. I asked because I wasn't sure whether it was wrong, but thought >it more likely a married woman would put up her hair. > I can't think of any style, in any period, where hair is covered down to below the shoulders and then allowed to peek out the bottom of the veil or drape. There are some where the hair is clearly seen all round and the veil is more of a decoration, as in Norman long plaits and some of the 14th/early 15th century styles where it's curled or braided or worn in earmuffs. And there's the style for young girls of wearing the front lappets of a hennin or hood, with the hair loose behind. But it sort of defeats the object if you cover it all very smartly and then let it hang out untidily at the end. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 17:46:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31MktMX026243 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:46:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LmDKo025348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:48:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LmDxE002928; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:48:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31Lm9xE002901 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:48:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31736 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2003 21:48:08 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 2003 21:48:08 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-99.sonic.net [209.148.112.99]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h31Lm8Z10600 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:48:08 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401134609.00aa5ac8@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:49:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? In-Reply-To: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200304011900.h31J0uRc009924@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AI have another catalog(?), that I cant recall >the name of, covering the houses, founders' careers & house >masterpieces of Worth, Doucet and Pingat. Look there as >well? The book _The Opulent Era: Fashions of Worth, Doucet and Pingat_ by Elizabeth Ann Coleman_? Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 17:52:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31MqpMX026276 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:52:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LsDKo026027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LsCxE007323; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:54:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta05bw.bigpond.com (mta05bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31Ls4xE007057 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.84]) by mta05bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta05bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HCOQ5X00.1HI for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:53:57 +1000 Received: from ESS-p-203-54-110-163.mega.tmns.net.au ([203.54.110.163]) by bwmam06.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 47/7700600); 02 Apr 2003 07:53:57 Message-ID: <3E8B1563.219132F4@bigpond.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:52:51 -0800 From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Neckline of Coronation Tunic of Henry II-another picture References: <000001c2f863$ea112c80$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Saragrace Knauf wrote: > http://www.saragrace.net/images/HII_CorTunic2.JPG > > This isn't a great picture either, but you can see some things in it > that you can't see in others. This is the Davenport picture. > > >From this pic, it looks like a wide v-shaped decoration with a slightly off centre neckhole and a small square missing off the bottom. If the embroidered bands are all that survived perhaps someone took a little snip off at some point (to sew on their own clothes perhaps) Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 17:54:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31MsPMX026283 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:54:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31LtkKo026358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:55:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31Ltjbq008495; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06bw.bigpond.com (mta06bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31Ltfbq008367 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.84]) by mta06bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HCOQ8N00.GH1 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:55:35 +1000 Received: from ESS-p-203-54-110-163.mega.tmns.net.au ([203.54.110.163]) by bwmam06.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 47/7702476); 02 Apr 2003 07:55:35 Message-ID: <3E8B15C5.855C48D0@bigpond.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:54:29 -0800 From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Up for sale on ebay at the moment is a bone with a number of holes in it described as a bone button making fragment. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=115&item=3216597228&rd=1 > > My assumption would be buttons made this way would have to have two holes in them for thread to attach them to the garment, no shanks. I was under the impression that such drilled buttons were at least 17th century. Does anyone know of drilled buttons from the 15th century? Or perhaps another way to attach round buttons obtained this way? > > Perhaps they are moulds for worked or fabric covered buttons. They would then have a thread shank (assuming that they are 15th century buttons and not something else or from somewhen else). Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 17:59:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h31Mx7MX026303 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31M0EKo026857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31M0C6C011502; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta04bw.bigpond.com (mta04bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31M076C011382 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.84]) by mta04bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta04bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HCOQG000.4N0 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:00:00 +1000 Received: from ESS-p-203-54-110-163.mega.tmns.net.au ([203.54.110.163]) by bwmam06.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 47/7707615); 02 Apr 2003 08:00:00 Message-ID: <3E8B16CE.9AEE1A0E@bigpond.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:58:54 -0800 From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gabled headdress question References: <000001c2f6c6$5a4d2d40$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <00c001c2f77b$6426d5e0$9ed6adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michaela wrote: > > > http://jack-of-all-trades.ca/meandmine/ab4.html > > Screams 20thC copy of a victorian source of a 16thC costume;) > > Are you sure those are ruffles? They could be pearls, which would be much > closer to the real mark. > > If you mean the wide band.. well that's defiantely not right, in the > portraits extant to the time it's two pieces of fabric with one over the > other at the top of the gable. This looks like one shaped piece. > > Other than that it's a decent copy.. even including that flap folded onto > the head.. which I certainly never got;) > > I always associate Anne with the french hood of course. But the queens on playing cards are traditionally wearing gable hoods, usually an earlier form. What the wide frilly thing looks like to me is an exaggeration of the frilled band on the forward edge of a french hood. Perhaps it's a mix up between the two to satisfy both tradition and the association of Anne with the french hood. Or it could just be a bad Victorian picture....:-P Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 19:11:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h320BoMX026618 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:11:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31ND6Ko004201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:13:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31ND1SF029764; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31NCuSF029714 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h31NBhX11114 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:11:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:11:43 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304012311.h31NBhX11114@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Isn't there a bra fitter on this list? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought I remembered someone having done lingere fittings professionally who used to post on this list... I've got a question about how front-closure bras are supposed to fit. I know how to fit regular bras and even bullet bras and corsets, but this one's defeating me. It appears to _me_ that one must use a slightly larger band size than the measurements suggest, *and* one must go up in cup size. That's the part that makes no sense to me. But whatever I'm doing, the front closure doesn't rest anywhere near the breastbone, which I was always told means the cup size is too small. However, I've never fitted front-closing bras before so I don't really know how it's _supposed_ to fit... Oh the joys of having to costume around disabilities. I now have to have a dresser to assist me if I wear anything with a rear or side closure. I may just go back to fantasy costumes at this rate. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 19:34:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h320YUMX026742 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:34:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31NZqKo006381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:35:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31NZpup014390; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31NZmup014350 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h31NYa411258 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:34:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:34:36 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304012334.h31NYa411258@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silver clay workshop in the UK X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Melanie Wilson" > I'm planning to run a Silver clay workshop later in the Spring for anyone > interested. > > Silver clay is a new product you shape your item from a special clat, fire > it and it turns to pure silver. > > This is a great way of reproducing costuming items such as brooches, > chatelaines, rings, you name it, without being a jewwller. > > The clay (like any silver) isn't cheap buit it is 100% silver and can be > hallmarked Is this the same stuff that's being sold as Precious Metal Clay here in the US? If so, there's now a gold one available as well. The one caveat I learned from the class I took is that the stuff shrinks slightly. Therefore, the only stones one can pre-set are cubic zirconia. Most natural stones will shatter as the clay matrix melts away. Gah, I can't find which catalogue it's in. I think Rio Grande here in the US also sells ring-sizing masters meant for use with PMC. It helps get around the guesswork about shrinkage when you're making rings or making stone settings. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 19:39:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h320dYMX026767 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:39:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31NeMKo006837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:40:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h31NeKup017019; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h31NeIup016985 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:40:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22941 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2003 23:40:17 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 2003 23:40:17 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-154.sonic.net [209.148.112.154]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h31NeGg02696 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:40:17 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401153802.00addd30@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 15:41:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Isn't there a bra fitter on this list? In-Reply-To: <200304012311.h31NBhX11114@gw.retro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I've got a question about how front-closure bras are supposed to fit. I used to have several, not for any special reason--they must have been in style or something.They had a plastic fastener in front, the parts fitted into each other. I always wore exactly the same band and cup size as always. I don't see why the size should be different. Maybe you're trying a bra from a different manufacturer than usual? Fran > I know >how to fit regular bras and even bullet bras and corsets, but this one's >defeating me. It appears to _me_ that one must use a slightly larger band >size than the measurements suggest, *and* one must go up in cup size. Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 20:40:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h321e8MX027143 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:40:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h320fQKo011890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:41:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h320fOKk019823; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:41:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h320fAKk019637 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.f8.2af3eb51 (4584) for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:40:59 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:40:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silver clay workshop in the UK To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/1/03 6:36:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, lee@retro.com writes: > Gah, I can't find which catalogue it's in. I think Rio Grande here in the > US > also sells ring-sizing masters meant for use with PMC. It helps get around > the guesswork about shrinkage when you're making rings or making stone > settings. Yes, Rio Grande is the catalog that sells PMC and ring-sizers. They're in the 2002-2003 edition of the catalog, which I have (I had a short stint as a jewelry-maker. Then my father forbid me from bringing a tank of propane for the little torch into the house!) Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 21:11:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h322BKMX027296 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:11:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321ChKo014450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:12:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321Cgau005181; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:12:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321Caau005146 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:12:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.158]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h321Q1M15654 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:26:01 +1000 Message-ID: <038b01c2f8b5$a03e4640$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:17:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to the Museum of London's Dress Accessories book, covering 1150-1450, published in 1991, there have been no bone buttons reliably identified from the mediaeval period - there has been some wast-bone panels with circles cut from them, but they could have been used for other purposes, eg beads. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 3:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons > Up for sale on ebay at the moment is a bone with a number of holes in it described as a bone button making fragment. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=115&item=3216597228&r d=1 > > My assumption would be buttons made this way would have to have two holes in them for thread to attach them to the garment, no shanks. I was under the impression that such drilled buttons were at least 17th century. Does anyone know of drilled buttons from the 15th century? Or perhaps another way to attach round buttons obtained this way? > > Lisa Sinervo > Threadneedle St. Clothiers > www.ThreadneedleSt.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 21:14:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h322E9MX027304 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:14:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321FUKo014678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321FTau006450; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321FQau006383 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:15:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <20030402011521052002k8nse>; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 01:15:21 +0000 Message-ID: <006e01c2f8b5$556ab220$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:15:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have no idea whether they have a Worth collection, but the Musee Galleria in Paris has a historic costume collection as well. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 21:21:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h322LWMX027324 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:21:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321MiKo015111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:22:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321Mhau009361; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:22:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14005.mail.yahoo.com (web14005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h321Meau009342 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:22:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030402012240.68981.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.3.143.32] by web14005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:22:40 PST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:22:40 -0800 (PST) From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304020113.h321Cuaw005268@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have another catalog(?), that I cant recall >the name of, covering the houses, founders' careers & house >masterpieces of Worth, Doucet and Pingat. Look there as >well? The book _The Opulent Era: Fashions of Worth, Doucet and Pingat_ by Elizabeth Ann Coleman_? Exactly. Thanks, Fran, ===== --cin Cynthia hysteria95126@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 21:34:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h322YvMX027349 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:34:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321aJKo016064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321aIau015394; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321aEau015364 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from p39-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.103] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190XAi-0006J2-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:36:13 +1200 Message-ID: <007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:36:02 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I dislike doing this, but as no one has understood what gown I'm talking about: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/davenport.jpg The gown to the left, and the pattern to the lower right. I doubt it's a Worth gown, as Davenport puts in the 17thC section. So looking at the Worth Collection at the Met is no help. It's labelled as first quarter 17thC I'm sure Davenport would have mentioned it's a 19thC copy if it was. The pattern also is nothing like I'd expect from the late 19thC either. I just wish she dealt with it in the text. Maybe it's a private collection.. maybe it was owned by Worth at one time... Does anyone else have the book to confirm if she has say an appendix that fully references images? michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 21:53:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h322rnMX027427 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:53:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321pLKo017112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:51:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321pJau022207; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:51:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h321pGau022145 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:51:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003040201511100200oj317e>; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 01:51:11 +0000 Message-ID: <3E8A4213.5030600@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:51:15 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have not been following this thread, so I hope I'm not stomping over already traveled ground. I happen to have Davenport in arm's reach right now. Davenport states that it is in the Worth collection in Paris, not that it is a Worth gown. It is listed as First quarter XVIIc. Spanish. Spanish court dress and pattern. In the sources of illustration section (which is an appendex) she states "Societe de l'historie du costume, Bulletin. That's all! Liz Young michaela wrote: >I dislike doing this, but as no one has understood what gown I'm talking >about: >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/davenport.jpg > >The gown to the left, and the pattern to the lower right. > >I doubt it's a Worth gown, as Davenport puts in the 17thC section. So >looking at the Worth Collection at the Met is no help. > >It's labelled as first quarter 17thC I'm sure Davenport would have mentioned >it's a 19thC copy if it was. The pattern also is nothing like I'd expect >from the late 19thC either. > >I just wish she dealt with it in the text. Maybe it's a private collection.. >maybe it was owned by Worth at one time... > >Does anyone else have the book to confirm if she has say an appendix that >fully references images? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 22:03:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3233BMX027454 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:03:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3224FKo017983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3224E5V027306; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:04:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3224C5V027285 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:04:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-33qtk5h.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.208.177] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 190Xbm-000676-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:04:11 -0800 Message-ID: <002801c2f8bd$ba2cc9c0$b1d0aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:15:24 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin you could try contacting Edith Cuffe the CEO of the Abbey Museum of Art and Archaeology in Australia. info@abbeymuseum.asn.au There are quite a few serious medieval re-enactors in Brisbane and they frequently travel to the U.K. She might, maybe, know of one. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors > > I've been contacted by a researcher working on a series for BBC 2 on > medieval people. > > Among other things, she's looking for a female re-enactor in the UK she > can interview for the show. She needs someone who has got historically > accurate kit (as authentic as possible) and can talk knowledgeably about > the clothing a gentry-level woman would wear and how she carries out daily > tasks. The idea would be to show how the layering, etc. allows for > practicality as well as display. (The aim of the series is to contrast > some of the common popular "medieval" stereotypes with reality. So, folks, > here's your chance to get some good information out there.) > > I have already done some checking around and found some excellent living > history groups in England, but all of them have a focus of Norman period > or earlier. In this case, we need someone much later -- mid-15th century > would be ideal, though we could manage something around 1400. Think on the > line of Margaret Paston -- country gentry, lady of the house. > > Naturally I need contacts right away. ;-) > > Thanks for any leads. You may feel free to repost this note on other > relevant groups, but remember that we want ONLY someone focused on > well-researched, exact costume. I gather she does *not* want someone to > play a persona or describe any sort of modern re-enactment events. > > --Robin > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 22:08:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32382MX027465 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:08:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3229MKo018259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3229L5V029162; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:09:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3229I5V029145 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-33qtk5h.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.208.177] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 190Xgj-0007DM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:09:17 -0800 Message-ID: <003701c2f8be$72639a00$b1d0aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> <038b01c2f8b5$a03e4640$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:20:35 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, I thought perhaps it might have been the Dress Accessories book that had the bone with the circles cut out that I had seen before but I couldn't remember the description and I don't have the book anymore. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons > According to the Museum of London's Dress Accessories book, covering > 1150-1450, published in 1991, there have been no bone buttons reliably > identified from the mediaeval period - there has been some wast-bone panels > with circles cut from them, but they could have been used for other > purposes, eg beads. > > Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 22:16:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h323GYMX027512 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:16:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h322HsKo018932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:17:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h322Hq5V003385; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:17:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com [66.96.128.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h322Hn5V003297 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:17:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 15081 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2003 02:11:36 -0000 Received: from dialup-64.156.37.39.dial1.denver1.level3.net (HELO costumepress.com) (64.156.37.39) by -H with SMTP; 2 Apr 2003 02:11:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3E8A4843.B8D8BB99@costumepress.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 19:17:43 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? References: <200304011900.h31J0uRc009924@net.indra.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030401134609.00aa5ac8@pop.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is the catalog for the exhibit Coleman and her staff did at the Brooklyn Museum some 20 years ago. It is superb. MD/Marged Lavolta Press wrote: > >The book _The Opulent Era: Fashions of Worth, Doucet and Pingat_ > by Elizabeth Ann Coleman_? > > Fran > > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 22:16:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h323GkMX027515 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:16:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h322I8Ko018967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h322I75V003530; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:18:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h322Ht5W003421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from nautilus.shore.net [207.244.124.104] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 190Xp4-0001Uy-00; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:17:54 -0500 Received: from vintage by nautilus.shore.net with local (Exim) id 190Xp4-0004Fl-00; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:17:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:17:53 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Cascio Michael Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1911 children's clothes In-Reply-To: <20030331030647.18581.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, Cascio Michael wrote: >Help!!! >I am desperately in need of fashion plates or patterns >for children's clothing specific to 1911 in the US. >The newest exhibit in the museum needs new clothing I have several fashion magazines from 1911. It's a period I have yet to publish a book on but I would be willing to look through them for kids clothes. I could xerox some pages for you if they would help. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 23:28:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h324SHMX027828 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:28:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h323TfKo023567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:29:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h323Te0H003710; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:29:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h323Tb0H003692 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:29:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.170] (pm5-170.eos.net [205.133.149.170]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22243 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:29:05 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 22:25:35 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304020112.h321Cuav005268@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: seeking UK re-enactors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Boy, is everyone cranky on this topic! Must be a regional thing. Here in the US, hardly anyone films such things (unless it's for The Learning Channel or The History Channel, what my husband calls "The poor man's PBS -- except you have to pay to see it!"). So nobody's burned out the way it seems our wonderful UK posters are. I think most people in this country would be thrilled by the offer, as long as it was a one-time thing. Now an ongoing consultation, or numerous appearances -- then you're talking performance. It must be nice to be in such demand! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 1 23:31:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h324VsMX027839 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:31:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h323X5Ko023764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h323X40H005171; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h323X10H005146 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty5224.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.224]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h323WvEl028357 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:33:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3E8A5965.293A90DF@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 22:30:45 -0500 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff quotes References: <7ECAA8FD.2D20ABA3.0BD9917F@aol.com> <3E884BD8.910613BC@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, and thank you, Melanie. My edition has it on pg D8, but does not mention coloring stuffs for ruffs at all. It certainly gives a wonderful description of the construction of supportases, though. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 00:25:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h325PwMX028000 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:25:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324R7Ko026982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:27:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324R6Ix027402; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324R2Ix027371 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty5224.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.250.224]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h324R5El025617 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:27:06 -0500 Message-ID: <3E8A662B.C6E2C33F@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:25:16 -0500 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. There is no evidence to suggest that buttons with holes in them are any earlier than the late 17th, early 18th Cent. I know it seems odd that no one would just drill holes in them and sew them on, but it may be based on the way buttons were used in the earlier periods. As the MoL books show, and many art pieces attest, clothing with buttons at least into the early years of the 17th Cent. had the buttons sewn onto the edge of the fabric as opposed to on the face of it. Flat buttons sewn directly onto fabric through holes in the button tend to be closer to the fabric than, say, buttons with longer shanks. If you look at finds catalogs and detector finds books, you see the shape of button shanks changing in the late 17th Cent.. They become gradually closer to the fabric (i.e. the shank gets smaller). There are no hard and fast rules to this, though looking at paintings as well as existing (hopefully not tampered with) garments seen in JA's work as well as in Fashion in Detail and others, it seems so. Buttons of wood and bone in the earlier period are conjectured to have been turned on a lathe, with a section of smaller diameter made to accomodate the shank, which was then drilled crosswise after the individual button was separated from the rest. I will check, but I believe there is an example in one of Ivor Hume's books on Archaeological finds from London. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 00:48:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h325miMX028071 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:48:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324n9Ko028497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324n8Ix006756; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324n4Ix006725 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from p861-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.99] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190aBL-00069s-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:49:03 +1200 Message-ID: <001d01c2f8d3$2e7124b0$63c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tonight's UK television Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:48:59 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > We will see, but it will be nice to have some feedback on this list from > people who actually know what they're talking about. Well at least the french hoods aren't that back-to-front sun visor shape;): http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/boleyn_wallpaper.shtml Thought people might be interested in the wallpapers of images here:) Mary's green dress in the first photo reminds me a lot of SCA tudor costumes I've seen on the net. http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+site:www.bbc.c o.uk+%22The+Other+Boleyn+Girl%22+bbc All the pages at BBC.com with "The other Boleyn Gir" mentioned.. some interesting bits and bobs in there indeed. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 00:53:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h325rLMX028076 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:53:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324HVKo026400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324HTIx023000; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:17:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h324HRIx022990 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:17:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from p861-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.99] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190Zgj-00084i-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:17:26 +1200 Message-ID: <002a01c2f8ce$c3d828f0$63c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com><007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela> <3E8A4213.5030600@fenris.net> Subject: Societe de l'historie du costume was Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:17:22 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Davenport states that it is in the Worth collection in Paris, not that > it is a Worth gown. It is listed as First quarter XVIIc. Spanish. > Spanish court dress and pattern. Which is what I'd said, but I think people saw Worth and assumed it was a Worth gown. > In the sources of illustration section (which is an appendex) she states > "Societe de l'historie du costume, Bulletin. Thank you:) That is exactly what I needed to to a proper search:) Actually... I have another photo of a gown for that same society in an older book...I'm wondering if they are reconstructions? Or if those gowns are now in storage as they haven't been discussed elsewhere.. I think another photo is needed.. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/reconstitution.jpg This one is labelled Eleanore d'Autriche. Reconstitution de l'histoire de costume. Musee Galliera. 1938. So if this is the same thing as what is happening witht he one in Davenport.. I wonder why she didn't label it as a reconstuction? BTW, in the original book the above image looks to be heavily embroidered, that's no brocade;) So now I'm going to see if I can find out some more about this society and find out what sources they used:) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 02:56:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h327uJMX003556 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 02:56:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h326vaKo005308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h326vUUW024470; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:57:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h326vQUW024349 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-120.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.120]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABJ72695; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:57:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ea01c2f8e5$7ac31640$28794ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silver clay workshop in the UK Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:59:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The shrinkage is about 10% on the advanced formula I think Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 03:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h328fEMX010135 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 03:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h327gbKo007039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h327gaUW009508; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:42:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h327gVUW009473 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h327fKd12818 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:41:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:41:20 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304020741.h327fKd12818@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Isn't there a bra fitter on this list? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >I've got a question about how front-closure bras are supposed to fit. > > I used to have several, not for any special reason--they must have been in > style or something.They had a plastic fastener in front, the parts fitted > into each other. I always wore exactly the same band and cup size as > always. I don't see why the size should be different. Maybe you're trying > a bra from a different manufacturer than usual? No, these are hook-fastened bras, not the tiny plastic fastener (which in my memory always tended to come unfastened at the worst times). Soft cup, no underwire. Same manufacturer as usual. However, bras that have multiple hooks at the front rather than at the back seem to be marketed to older ladies and women with shoulder problems. So the cut may be different than a normal back-fastened bra. The fit on this thing reminds me more of a sports bra than anything else, and I'm pretty sure it should not be. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 05:14:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32AEPMX021490 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 05:14:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h329BwKo010759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 02:11:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h329Bupt007428; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 02:11:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h329Bqpt007396 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 02:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.110]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCP00K4MLJRUJ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 01:11:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 00:35:05 -0800 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? In-reply-to: <007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030402003306.05041c10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I dislike doing this, but as no one has understood what gown I'm talking >about: >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/davenport.jpg > >The gown to the left, and the pattern to the lower right. While I am unable to help you in your quest, I knew exactly what you were talking about. That the dress is a photo, and that it is listed as being in the Worth collection, means it survived its original period by a number of years. I, too, wonder where it is now, if anywhere. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 11:41:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32Gf9MX012633 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:41:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FfPKo002598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:41:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FfM81002121; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FfH81002073 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) SMTP id JAA09073 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:41:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000c01c2f92e$c37f31e0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:44:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the pic. Worth was known for collecting historical costume as inspiration(or even remodeling in one case of a picture of an 18thc gown--remember until comparatively recently garment fabric was expensive while labor was cheap so it was normal to reuse, remodel, and remake)so perhaps this mid 17th c Spanish gown does have Worth ties. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 11:50:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32GoYMX012663 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FpWKo003455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FpV81007916; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FpQ81007861 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:51:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) SMTP id JAA22107 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:51:24 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001501c2f930$2d93c2c0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c2f8d3$2e7124b0$63c3adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tonight's UK television Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:54:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I downloaded the screensaver to my computer. In the same photo as Mary's green dress, note Anne's stays(pair of bodies). The modern eyelets stand out like sore thumbs to me. Thanks to Janet Arnold's books I made my current RenFaire dress with the largest jewerly-making jump rings I could find. I marked and made lacing holes with a stylus, placed one ring on each side of a hole and oversewed them in place with a buttonhole stitch. Tricky(be nice to have three hands for this), but worth it. I did cheat on the gown by having the bodice and stays in one unit on my gown, but I can get in and out of it myself and the Eastern Nebraska/Western Iowa area has always had hot humid days for RenFaire in my area. Just my luck that those in charge want to move the event to early fall for this year. Cindy Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tonight's UK television > > We will see, but it will be nice to have some feedback on this list from > > people who actually know what they're talking about. > > Well at least the french hoods aren't that back-to-front sun visor shape;): > http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/boleyn_wallpaper.shtml > > Thought people might be interested in the wallpapers of images here:) > > Mary's green dress in the first photo reminds me a lot of SCA tudor costumes > I've seen on the net. > http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+site:www.bbc.c > o.uk+%22The+Other+Boleyn+Girl%22+bbc > > All the pages at BBC.com with "The other Boleyn Gir" mentioned.. some > interesting bits and bobs in there indeed. > > michaela > http://recital.tripod.com/costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 11:55:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32GtcMX012684 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:55:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FuGKo004005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:56:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FuFK0010959; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:56:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32FuAK1010890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from nautilus.shore.net [207.244.124.104] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 190kcv-0004TE-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:58:13 -0500 Received: from vintage by nautilus.shore.net with local (Exim) id 190kZ5-0000ob-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:54:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:54:15 -0500 (EST) From: Katy Bishop To: Cynthia Abel Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? In-Reply-To: <000c01c2f92e$c37f31e0$55c98693@creighton.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Cynthia Abel wrote: > > Thanks for the pic. Worth was known for collecting historical costume as >inspiration(or even remodeling in one case of a picture of an 18thc >gown--remember until comparatively recently garment fabric was expensive >while labor was cheap so it was normal to reuse, remodel, and remake)so >perhaps this mid 17th c Spanish gown does have Worth ties. I wonder if one could track down where Worth's private collection of clothing, historical and otherwise, ended up, perhaps it's at one of the Paris Museums. Maybe one could contact a Worth scholar. Ann Coleman (who wrote the Worth Doucet and Pingat book) at the MFA in Boston comes to mind. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 12:30:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32HU4MX012827 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32GTqKo006840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:29:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32GToK0000432; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from web14605.mail.yahoo.com (web14605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h32GTkK0000379 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:29:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030402162946.89411.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.6.151.188] by web14605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:29:46 PST Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: Valencia Grange To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304021551.h32Fph83008048@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Seeking UK re-enactors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, You've very eloquently expressed what I believe are the standards by which professional journalists work (being one myself, of course, I am inclined to give most of us the benefit of the doubt). I do think re-enactors in the US are probably more open to this kind of approach because we get fewer requests for it, but it seems to me there is a clear difference between being interviewed and doing a performance. After all, being interviewed as a expert offers such good publicity for the interviewee that there's a whole industry dedicated to soliciting interviews (PR). I wish I had some good UK references for you... Valencia (somewhat new to this list and mostly lurking in awe) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 12:35:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32HZTMX012847 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:35:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32GaSKo007587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32GaRK0004445; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12004.mail.yahoo.com (web12004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h32GaOK0004399 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:36:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030402163623.33736.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.234] by web12004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:36:23 PST Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:36:23 -0800 (PST) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Worth collection in Paris X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll through my two cents in on this one as I was just scanning my local university library shelves for those books too old to be on the computer. The U of Illinois was founded in 1867 and not computerized until much later. Everything acquired after 1970something is in the computer but everything acquired prior to that is in the card catalog which is not updated now. With 38 different library buildings and rooms on campus you can find alot of neat old stuff. As to the reconstruction gowns...I just checked out a series of 1889-1892 monographs of Shakesperean costume patterns. They look really period except the silhouette is late 1890s. Didn't Worth also design gowns for all the fancy costume parties given by the rich at that time? Some of the Victorians did do alot of good costume research, including codpieces because they could be risque because it was period. If anyone on the list is really into the Victorian version of historic costume I could xerox these and send them on, although there's alot of pages. I don't have my own site to post them but I'm fairly sure they're out of copyright. Have a productive day with lots of sewing all, Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 12:50:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32Ho1MX012951 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:50:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32Gn2Ko009060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32GmxK0013736; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32GmsK0013600 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:48:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCQ00J576PGWX@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:48:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:45:28 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Isn't there a bra fitter on this list? In-reply-to: <200304020741.h327fKd12818@gw.retro.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030402083957.02c4ebd8@64.87.54.245> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:41 PM 4/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >No, these are hook-fastened bras, not the tiny plastic fastener (which in >my memory always tended to come unfastened at the worst times). Soft cup, >no underwire. Same manufacturer as usual. However, bras that have multiple >hooks at the front rather than at the back seem to be marketed to older ladies >and women with shoulder problems. So the cut may be different than a normal >back-fastened bra. The fit on this thing reminds me more of a sports bra >than anything else, and I'm pretty sure it should not be. > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert I have a bra like that. I bought it for my pregnancy time when I had to wear something all the time. It fits like a sports bra, and fastens across the breast area getting nowhere near the breast bone. It is the same size as the rest of my bras, and is a lot more comfortable in many ways. I wear a C cup, and tried on a D cup with this style, and just swam in the D cup. I don't think it was supposed to fit near the breast bone in this case. It also has a much larger back area, being a large piece and not a strap, which helped me with supporting the pregnancy tender breasts. I hope that helped answer whatever you were looking for. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 15:30:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32KUGMX013561 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:30:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32JUtKo024935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:30:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32JUp40004624; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:30:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32JUm40004537 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCQ005QKE7651@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:30:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:33:47 -0600 From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Isn't there a bra fitter on this list? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E8B3B1B.4030200@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As a long time front fastener... They do fit differently. Perhaps this is why.... Many bras that attach in the back have the cross the front thing going, or something very similar, with more supporting shape to the center front. With a front fastened bra you have the hook and eye tape to contend with, this takes up space, plus you can't do cross the front. If you can find an underwire bra in your size that has the front opening, it will fit more snugly to the center front. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 15:33:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32KXQMX013567 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:33:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32JYGKo025261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32JYG40006687; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32JYD40006613 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:34:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCQ005U8EB527@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:33:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:36:11 -0600 From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E8B3BAB.6000405@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is it possible that this might have been a "holder" of some sort for doing bound or wrapped buttons. Like take the fabrid, lay it over the hole, tuck the wood or bone base and push it into the holder on top of the fabric. This would hold the buttin into place while you created the shank? Just a thought. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 18:02:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32N2vMX014237 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:02:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32M47Ko010522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32M46SC019002; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32M44SC018968 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.176]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DBCEA5EE28E for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:04:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007601c2f963$cf81bd20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion><003401c2f84a$6a050f20$53ccadcb@michaela> <3E899E3C.E5C0644F@costumepress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:04:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Thanks for those valuable informations. Well i thoaght it was a real 17th century survived garment from Spain. What a shame. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Denise Smith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? > If I am thinking of the same dress you are thinking of, it was exhibited > at the Museum of the City of New York some years ago in their big > shindig on Worth. I thought they owned it because the gown itself was > made for a "fancy dress ball" thrown in New York City by Alva Vanderbilt > in 1898 (?). > > Hope this helps, > > MD/Marged > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 18:12:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32NCaMX014265 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:12:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MDbKo011611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:13:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MDZSC026395; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MDVSC026344 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.176]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 93F2E5EE22D for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:13:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00ca01c2f965$21b50600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com><007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela> <3E8A4213.5030600@fenris.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:13:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello This makes sence to me. This is what i always thoaght it was, a spanish court dress. Thanks. I really could not figure out how it came in with Worth. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Young" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Worth collection in paris? > I have not been following this thread, so I hope I'm not stomping over > already traveled ground. I happen to have Davenport in arm's reach right > now. > Davenport states that it is in the Worth collection in Paris, not that > it is a Worth gown. It is listed as First quarter XVIIc. Spanish. > Spanish court dress and pattern. > In the sources of illustration section (which is an appendex) she states > "Societe de l'historie du costume, Bulletin. > > That's all! > Liz Young > > michaela wrote: > > >I dislike doing this, but as no one has understood what gown I'm talking > >about: > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/davenport.jpg > > > >The gown to the left, and the pattern to the lower right. > > > >I doubt it's a Worth gown, as Davenport puts in the 17thC section. So > >looking at the Worth Collection at the Met is no help. > > > >It's labelled as first quarter 17thC I'm sure Davenport would have mentioned > >it's a 19thC copy if it was. The pattern also is nothing like I'd expect > >from the late 19thC either. > > > >I just wish she dealt with it in the text. Maybe it's a private collection.. > >maybe it was owned by Worth at one time... > > > >Does anyone else have the book to confirm if she has say an appendix that > >fully references images? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 18:14:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32NE7MX014275 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:14:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MARMG011144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32M19SC016740; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32M14SC016663 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.176]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 162015EE26A for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:01:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005101c2f963$616c9620$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Deeper Thoughts--movies Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:01:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I was late to see it two, baught the DVD and i love it. Only thing i hate is Marie Antoinette wearing sunglasses at the park of Versailles, and her stage costume. It is hidious. But i love all the other costumes, wonderfull. Did you see that the jacket Marie Antoinette is wearing in the park, is the same, as the Kyoto Book, embroidered jacket with a gillet front? I am very tempted to try to make a toile of this jacket. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Hamilton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Deeper Thoughts--movies > > Obligatory costume content: Finally saw "The Affair of > > the Necklace" last night. Ohmigod, the clothes were > > nothing short of stunning! This is definitely one to > > add to the DVD collection for "sewing movies." > > > > Dawn > > > > ===== > > Have you seen "The Triumph of Love"? An 18th-century comedic satire of the > mistaken identity/women in men's clothing ilk. Many recognizable British > and American actors, including Mira Sorvino and Ben Kingsley. Not up to > "Affair of the Necklace" standards but any yardage is good for the eyes and > soul. > > Marsha > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 18:47:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32NldMX014418 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:47:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MmPKo015108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MmOP2023443; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:48:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MkvP2022346 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:46:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6807A9A1 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 01085-02 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-172-61-187.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.172.61.187]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D837A995 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:46:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:46:44 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Classes in Brisbane AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <001f01c2f85b$7b9d1640$170377d8@pavilion> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thanks for the suggestions -- I'll forward them on! On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 06:32 AM, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > The Morteon Institute of TAFE offers an industry based fashion program > which > is in Mt. Gravatt a suburb of Brisbane. It offers day and evening > classes > including all the standard patternmaking courses. You don't actually > have > to be "offered" a spot to take a course although the literature often > makes > it seem that way. It's worth talking to the department to get in. > Chris > something or other is the flat-pattern instructor and she is super. > Most of > the people there have worked in industry/production and it shows. The > slopers they use there have seam allowances because it is faster to > make > patterns that way. You only have to add allowances where you cut or > slash > etc.... it took some getting used to. > > Queensland University of Technology in the city of Brisbane was just > about > to open a university degree program when I left that was more design > based. > One would probably have to be a full time "college" student to > participate.......but also worth trying. > > Lisa > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Meadows" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:13 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Classes in Brisbane AU > > >> >> I got email from someone via my website who is looking for >> recommendations for sewing/pattern drafting classes in >> the Brisbane, Australia area. Anyone from around there on >> the list? >> >> >> Heather >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 18:50:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32NoqMX014438 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:50:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MflKs014494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MPaSC006959; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32MPTSC006834 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.176]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 21A575EE20B for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:25:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00e001c2f966$cdf4fb40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com><007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela><3E8A4213.5030600@fenris.net> <002a01c2f8ce$c3d828f0$63c3adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: Societe de l'historie du costume was Re: [h-cost] Worth collection inparis? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:25:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello again. I think the reason why noone has bothered to find out more of this, is because it is a spanish court dress. Spain used other fashions as the rest of Europe, They continued to use farthingales long up into the 17th century, The late version of the farthingale, as this dress shows, was an oval drum shaped farthingale, very like the later 18th. century pannier style. Some time in early 18th century, where no frame was used yeat in france, Lisselotte writes about a dress the queen had ben gifted from Spain, where there were metal hoops in the underskirt. So Spain used frames trough the whole 17th century. Liselotte i refer to is Kurfurstin von Pfaltz, she writes a lot about modes and manners in her letters wich is publised. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 6:17 AM Subject: Societe de l'historie du costume was Re: [h-cost] Worth collection inparis? > > Davenport states that it is in the Worth collection in Paris, not that > > it is a Worth gown. It is listed as First quarter XVIIc. Spanish. > > Spanish court dress and pattern. > > Which is what I'd said, but I think people saw Worth and assumed it was a > Worth gown. > > > In the sources of illustration section (which is an appendex) she states > > "Societe de l'historie du costume, Bulletin. > > Thank you:) That is exactly what I needed to to a proper search:) > Actually... I have another photo of a gown for that same society in an older > book...I'm wondering if they are reconstructions? Or if those gowns are now > in storage as they haven't been discussed elsewhere.. I think another photo > is needed.. > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/reconstitution.jpg > > This one is labelled Eleanore d'Autriche. Reconstitution de l'histoire de > costume. Musee Galliera. 1938. > > So if this is the same thing as what is happening witht he one in > Davenport.. I wonder why she didn't label it as a reconstuction? > > BTW, in the original book the above image looks to be heavily embroidered, > that's no brocade;) > > So now I'm going to see if I can find out some more about this society and > find out what sources they used:) > > michaela > http://recital.tripod.com/costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 19:04:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3304QMX014482 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:04:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32N5LKo017119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32N5KhQ005933; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:05:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32N5IhQ005905 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:05:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h32N5HcD014210 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.162] (as3-4-176.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.162]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h32N5Ene014144 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:05:16 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003701c2f8be$72639a00$b1d0aec7@pavilion> References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> <038b01c2f8b5$a03e4640$eaf4fea9@glendaii> <003701c2f8be$72639a00$b1d0aec7@pavilion> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:28:08 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:20 PM -0800 4/1/03, Lisa Sinervo wrote: >Thanks, I thought perhaps it might have been the Dress Accessories book that >had the bone with the circles cut out that I had seen before but I couldn't >remember the description and I don't have the book anymore. Another good place to look for bone information is: MacGregor, Arthur. 1985. Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn. Croom Helm, London. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 19:32:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h330WfMX014635 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:32:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32NXOKo019815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:33:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32NXNhQ024334; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-86.apple.com [17.250.248.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32NXJhQ024284 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:33:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h32NXJ0x000718 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:33:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) byid HCQPFI00.P81 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:33:18 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:33:15 -0800 From: Agnes Gawne To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00e001c2f966$cdf4fb40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h32NXJhQ024284 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Societe de l'histoire du costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe the SOCIETE DE L¹HISTOIRE ET DU COSTUME is now part of the Musée Galliera (Musée de la mode de la ville de Paris). It is the costume museum near the Eiffel Tower that was the former home of the Countess Galliera. The following information in is on their website on a page giving thanks to people for a most recent show. It appears this group is the "friends" of the museum group. la SOCIETE DE L¹HISTOIRE ET DU COSTUME, Société d¹amis du musée Galliera Monsieur Guy de Brantes, Président Madame Françoise Blanchet, Trésorière The society was founded by a Mr. Leloir (IIRC) and their collection was given to the City of Paris in the 1920s or so. That is the foundation of the collection of the current Musée Galliera. Of course there are other things in the collection today. That's what I remember from visiting there. You may try to email them for more information, although considering the language barriers (If you aren't fluent in French) you may be better off corresponding with them on paper and including a photocopy of the dress in question. Most of their collection never sees the light of day but some curator must know what they have. Their website is http://www.paris.fr/musees/Musee_Galliera/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 21:24:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h332O0MX015216 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h331P8Ko029955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h331P70R000615; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h331P30R000578 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:25:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030403012503.38651.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.248] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 17:25:03 PST Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 17:25:03 -0800 (PST) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Victorian version of Shakespearean costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I wanted to make sure that my last post was clear. The Shakespearean monographs from 1889-92 remind me of Delineators with a sketch and then a written description. There are no patterns or sketches of pattern pieces. Each monograph has sketches for all the characters in a particular play, sometimes more than one change depending on the character. There are 9 volumes of which I've found 5 so there are several hundred pages. You can e-mail me privately if you want copies so I can xerox everything all at once. I'm beginning to develop a real fondness for Victorian fancy dress and national dress. The written descriptions make me want the fabrics they had available then even more than usual. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 22:15:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h333FuMX015447 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:15:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332HCKo003382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332HAxC023115; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332H8xC023077 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <20030403021703052002i8b8e>; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: <004b01c2f987$1d9ee910$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:17:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been adding a number of costume images to my Real Regency & Victorian Clothing directory, and as I do so I've been having a contemplation... What's with the number of so-called wedding gowns dating from the mid- to late-19th century (1830's-1890's) that are cut as evening dresses? Here are my questions: 1. Were weddings ever held in the evening during this period? 2. If not, was it considered proper to wear a low-necked, short-sleeved dress during the day to your wedding? My hunch to both of those questions is no -- if so, then I'm assuming that museum curators have assumed that because a dress is white, it must be a wedding dress. I do know that while white dresses were often used for wedding dresses in the 19th c., this wasn't always the case, and often women wore what was considered a "best dress." Some examples of this phenomenon: http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate3.jpg http://www.mcny.org/Collections/costume/worth/costume13.htm http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate1.jpg (right-hand dress) http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z4FE32114 Any thoughts or sources would be appreciated! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 22:47:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h333lAMX015530 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:47:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332jxKo005008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:45:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332jwxC005371; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:45:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332jsxC005343 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:45:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from p914-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.152] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190ujf-0001HF-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:45:52 +1200 Message-ID: <006601c2f98b$24b70620$98c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030401210644.16599.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com><007201c2f8b8$3ae5e110$67ccadcb@michaela><3E8A4213.5030600@fenris.net><002a01c2f8ce$c3d828f0$63c3adcb@michaela> <00e001c2f966$cdf4fb40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: Societe de l'historie du costume was Re: [h-cost] Worthcollection inparis? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:45:49 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Combining posts:) Cindy: > Thanks for the pic. Worth was known for collecting historical costume as > inspiration(or even remodeling in one case of a picture of an 18thc > gown--remember until comparatively recently garment fabric was expensive > while labor was cheap so it was normal to reuse, remodel, and remake)so > perhaps this mid 17th c Spanish gown does have Worth ties. That was what I tought. I am sure that I too read somewhere that he had a collection of historical garments. So perhaps the Society was able to use a garment from his collection to reconstruct? Kayta: > While I am unable to help you in your quest, I knew exactly what you were > talking about. That the dress is a photo, and that it is listed as being > in the Worth collection, means it survived its original period by a number > of years. I, too, wonder where it is now, if anywhere. It would be fantiastic to se if it's still around and if there are photos in colour or from the front of the gown. Bjarne: > I think the reason why noone has bothered to find out more of this, is > because it is a spanish court dress. Possibly. I know when I did a search even for spanish costume 17th century I got no recreaion hits. So people who are interested just don't seem to be hitting the search engines well. > The late version of the farthingale, as this dress shows, was an oval drum > shaped farthingale, very like the later 18th. century pannier style. Yes, though I'm curious as to the dating of it. The styles oft he first quarter have all been much more like the gowns in the late 16thC. I've seen a few of the style in the 1740s, but not earlier. > Some time in early 18th century, where no frame was used yeat in france, > Lisselotte writes about a dress the queen had ben gifted from Spain, where > there were metal hoops in the underskirt. Now that's brilliant. Actual identified use of *metal* hoops. Loves those tidbits of information:) Agnes: > I believe the SOCIETE DE L¹HISTOIRE ET DU COSTUME is now part of the Musée > Galliera (Musée de la mode de la ville de Paris). It is the costume museum > near the Eiffel Tower that was the former home of the Countess Galliera. Ahhh.. I was going to do a search on Musee Gelliera as it was mentioned in that other image, but I thought it basically translated as Museum gallery.. as in their museum;) Thanks for the info. I may be able to get someone to write a letter for me, and they conveniently live in Paris so that's a help;) I also found a book apparently by M Leloir, so maybe that is in fact a sort of catalogue of their work? It had the society's name in the title somewhere... Thanks for the site:) Pity they only go back to the 18thC with the online collection. What incredibly adorable thumbnails... it's given me an idea for my own page... how to get all my costumes on one page.. excellent;) Next time I get to Paris I'm going there!;) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 22:53:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h333riMX015575 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:53:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332skKo005623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:54:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332sixC009070; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:54:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332sfxC009038 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:54:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from p914-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.152] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190usA-00045W-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:54:39 +1200 Message-ID: <006701c2f98c$5fd8b310$98c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004b01c2f987$1d9ee910$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:54:39 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What's with the number of so-called wedding gowns dating from the mid- to > late-19th century (1830's-1890's) that are cut as evening dresses? Here are > my questions: > 1. Were weddings ever held in the evening during this period? > 2. If not, was it considered proper to wear a low-necked, short-sleeved > dress during the day to your wedding? It depends. There are a few plates I've seen from the 60s and 70s that had a dinner dress type neckline. And I have a few photos of dolls dressed as brides from that time with the same neckline. But in the 80s there isa definate shift to a high neckline. > My hunch to both of those questions is no -- if so, then I'm assuming that > museum curators have assumed that because a dress is white, it must be a > wedding dress. I do know that while white dresses were often used for > wedding dresses in the 19th c., this wasn't always the case, and often women > wore what was considered a "best dress." For less than wealthy sure. > Some examples of this phenomenon: > http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate3.jpg Wow. Wow.... sorry but I love this dress. It does seem a bit stark for simply an evening dress though. Have you got Our New Clothes? Its a catalogue of an exhibit at teh Met and one section is about white dresses. I don't think any of them are wedding dresses, and a few are as stark as this, so I don't know. Wasn't Queen victoria's wedding dress shaped like this in that it hwad a wide low neckline? Or am I confusing it with her coronation dress... > http://www.mcny.org/Collections/costume/worth/costume13.htm Well they do mention it's provenance so I'd be sceptical that it wasn't her wedding dress. There is a photo of a royal bride at this time who had a ball gown type neckline. So it seems the more wealthy were able to have the low necklines, and the more aristocratic you were the lower it could be. The middle classes though had a whole different set of morality and that probably extended to weddings as well. > http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate1.jpg (right-hand dress) Sigh.. I'm loving these white dresses.. I havea real love of these... see my note above about this ball type neckline. Also rememebr that brides also wore their dress after being married to functions and I'm wondering if they didn't have a seperate bodice for that. Or if they altered the bodice for those events. > http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z4FE32114 Another instance of the above perhaps? michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 22:55:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h333tdMX015580 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:55:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332uwKo005833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332uwKa010032; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332utKa009992 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-010-220.jps.net ([216.119.10.220] helo=pavilion) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 190uuM-0005qx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 18:56:54 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01c2f98e$43303420$dc0a77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c2f810$2f64de20$e70977d8@pavilion> <038b01c2f8b5$a03e4640$eaf4fea9@glendaii> <003701c2f8be$72639a00$b1d0aec7@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:08:09 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Heather! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Rose Jones" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th century bone buttons > At 6:20 PM -0800 4/1/03, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > >Thanks, I thought perhaps it might have been the Dress Accessories book that > >had the bone with the circles cut out that I had seen before but I couldn't > >remember the description and I don't have the book anymore. > > Another good place to look for bone information is: > > MacGregor, Arthur. 1985. Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn. Croom Helm, London. > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 22:57:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h333vDMX015590 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:57:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332wWKo005916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:58:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332wWKa010681; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:58:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-89.apple.com [17.250.248.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h332wTKa010647 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h332wSjC020610 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) byid HCQYXG00.Q44 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:58:28 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 18:58:28 -0800 From: Agnes Gawne To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006601c2f98b$24b70620$98c3adcb@michaela> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h332wTKa010647 Subject: [h-cost] Musee Galliera X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Be sure to check if there is a show on at the Musée Galliera if you go to Paris, they often have shows that are just fashion photography and things like that. I wouldn't make a special trip there unless you had arranged ahead to use their library or something. Occasionally they have a "show-stopping" exhibition but they usually have few garments on display. They have put out some great catalogs over the years, one at the 200th anniversary of the French revolution called "Modes et Revolucions", another that covered a large time period but was specifically about garden and floral images in garments called "De la mode et de la jardin", it was beautiful, and more recently I picked one up all on bridal customs and fashions called "Mariage". They are all in French only, I don't know of any English versions of them. (But the photos are great). The publisher is usually "Musees Paris" > From: "michaela" > > Next time I get to Paris I'm going there!;) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 23:05:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3345AMX015638 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:05:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3336JKo006372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3336IKa013679; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:06:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3336HKa013669 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 30972 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2003 03:06:17 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2003 03:06:17 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-196.sonic.net [209.148.112.196]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3336FY27769 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:06:15 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030402190005.00aa1900@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:07:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? In-Reply-To: <004b01c2f987$1d9ee910$befc8218@hopperflop2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >1. Were weddings ever held in the evening during this period? One practice for some formal day events, including some weddings, and things like formal New Year's Day receptions, was to _pretend_ it was evening. You drew the curtains, lighted the gas, and told the guests to wear evening dress. >2. If not, was it considered proper to wear a low-necked, short-sleeved >dress during the day to your wedding? See above. The bride often chose as fancy a dress as she could afford, and that fitted her lifestyle. If it was a formal dress, she wore it to parties after the wedding, and in fact was expected to wear it to the ones given to congratulate her on her new status. On the other hand, white was also a popular color for non-wedding evening dresses, and for summer day dresses in some periods. And a fair number of brides were married in colored day dresses or traveling dresses. >My hunch to both of those questions is no -- if so, then I'm assuming that >museum curators have assumed that because a dress is white, it must be a >wedding dress. Vintage clothing dealers often assume this too. But on the other hand, not infrequently there is some form of family documentation presented to the dealer or museum when they acquire the dress, and they are going on that basis. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 23:34:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h334XxMX015729 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:33:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h333ZCKo008103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h333Z9Ka024782; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:35:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f93.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h333Z5Ka024697 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:34:59 -0800 Received: from 151.199.152.70 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 03:34:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.152.70] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 22:34:59 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2003 03:34:59.0939 (UTC) FILETIME=[0122BB30:01C2F992] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Englishwomens' Clothing in the 19th cent. by Cunnington for 1864 says, "Wedding dresses may be made with either a high or low bodice. Morning dresses of serge are a novelty, while satin is restord to favour for evening. New Materials: plush velvet, embroidered moires, muslins printed with imitation ruches and pleatings." By 1868, per the same source, wedding dresses are usually of white satin, with a high square cut bodice, very low, with a chemisette." So it sounds like they might not be wrong that a white dress might be a wedding dress, and I expect you would make it in the style that would be most useful after the wedding. I haven't checked the rest of the book for suceeding centuries. HTH! Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. > >>1. Were weddings ever held in the evening during this period? > > >>2. If not, was it considered proper to wear a low-necked, short-sleeved >>dress during the day to your wedding? > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 2 23:39:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h334dHMX015744 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:39:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h333e4Ko008424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h333e3Ka026862; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h333e0Ka026840 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2701 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2003 03:40:00 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2003 03:40:00 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-196.sonic.net [209.148.112.196]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h333dxu29979 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:39:59 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030402194019.00a95e90@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:41:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Musee Galliera In-Reply-To: References: <006601c2f98b$24b70620$98c3adcb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fred Struthers carries their catalogs. His email is fsbks@mcn.org. Fran > on display. > >They have put out some great catalogs over the years, one at the 200th >anniversary of the French revolution called "Modes et Revolucions", another >that covered a large time period but was specifically about garden and >floral images in garments called "De la mode et de la jardin", it was >beautiful, and more recently I picked one up all on bridal customs and >fashions called "Mariage". They are all in French only, I don't know of any >English versions of them. (But the photos are great). The publisher is >usually "Musees Paris" > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 00:59:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h335xkMX015953 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:59:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h334vAKo013264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h334v8Lp026443; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h334v6Lp026426 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from bchamber (pri-nat-73-ppp.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.109.73]) by mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h334v4MX011925 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:57:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002601c2f99d$225e9200$496d8bd1@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "H-Costume" Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:54:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] CSA Symposium Saturday X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h335xkMX015953 Status: RO Is anyone going to the CSA symposium in Sturbridge this Saturday? Beth Chamberlain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 01:50:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h336owMX016104 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:50:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h335haKo016192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:43:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h335hYLp014505; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:43:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h335hWLp014484 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AA03810023C; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 23:43:31 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA03851028E; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 23:43:31 -0600 Message-ID: <013a01c2f9a3$e765f740$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:43:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One thing that I have noticed from my 1882 and 1922 etiquette books is that weddings were held a lot in the autumn. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 01:54:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h336sbMX016122 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:54:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h335k6Ko016374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h335k6Lp015399; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h335k4Lp015372 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.18b.18059093 (17526) for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:45:47 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <18b.18059093.2bbd248b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:45:47 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/2/2003 9:56:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate3.jpg > > Beautiful....and it "solves" some of the dilemma. This is a day neckline for the 1840s. Some 1830s and 1840s day dresses have horizontal necklines. White dresses can also be used for "coming out," remember. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 02:15:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h337FgMX017968 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:15:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3368TKo017699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:08:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3368S0h022944; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3368O0h022916 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:08:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AFD7BCB700FC; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:08:23 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFD8865028E; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:08:24 -0600 Message-ID: <014101c2f9a7$5efeb280$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004b01c2f987$1d9ee910$befc8218@hopperflop2> <006701c2f98c$5fd8b310$98c3adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:07:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry... I am going through a lot of bridal articles lately. In both of the etiquette books I mentioned the bride and bridesmaids were to wear white. The bride's dress was supposed to be more embellished than the bridesmaids. We are working on getting these etiquette books online. But they are large so it will take a while. I have one bridesmaid's photo online from the 1929 http://www.costumegallery.com/bartnik.jpg and it was white and fancy. I have seen photos from the rest of this wedding party and all the bridesmaids wore white. The bride's dress was fancier and trained. I have also seen a number of wedding photos of late Victorian through the 20s and this white trend for the bride and bridesmaids was popular. Personally, I have not seen photos of a bride not in white during late Victorian era in a formal wedding. During WW2 there was a trend of pastels used for bridal dresses. A couple of years ago, we talked in depth about this and I know it is in the archives. As for high necklines... I think through early to mid-Victorian you will see the lower necklines. From 1880-Edwardian you will see the high collars. I have not read all the text about the bridal parties from the etiquette books... the sections are lengthy and cover every aspect of weddings. I will be copying these books in the next couple of weeks to send to our interns. I am sure the books cover the time of day for the weddings. Heck, they cover everything else. One last thing, I just checked a Ladies Home Journal 1894 article about a home wedding. There was no mention of the color of the bride's dress. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 02:18:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h337IbMX018338 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:18:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336AjKo017906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:10:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336Aj0h023758; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:10:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336Ah0h023742 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:10:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A06265DA00CE; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:10:42 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A063A8201E6; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:10:43 -0600 Message-ID: <014801c2f9a7$b0ad5780$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <18b.18059093.2bbd248b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:10:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate3.jpg This dress is very similar to the 1838 fashion plate restoration project that I showed you all recently. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 02:47:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h337lYMX022336 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:47:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336gUKo020788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336gQ0h009019; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:42:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336gN0h008996 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A7CEC7A800FC; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:42:22 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7CF8A7028E; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:42:23 -0600 Message-ID: <015101c2f9ac$1a78a300$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030402190005.00aa1900@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:41:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My hunch to both of those questions is no -- if so, then I'm assuming that >museum curators have assumed that because a dress is white, it must be a >wedding dress. This is not the assumption among curators. White dresses for summer have been worn seen since the early 1800s. I have seen over 40 white lawn dresses in the Valentine's collection from 1900-1914ish. Wedding dresses generally come into museums with lots of documentation. I worked in the Valentine's wedding dress collection for two months and handled each one personally. (2 months of WOW look at the one!!!) They house the largest collection of wedding dresses in the U.S. Dresses are only accepted into the collection IF there is documentation of the wearer and the date of the wedding. Many come with photos of the bride. The Valentine's wedding collection starts with one of George Washington niece's robe a la franche (sp) wedding dress. I have dressed the costume out on a mannequin. It is gold colored. Their earliest white dress is 1800-1810. I can't recall the date off hand... darn, I worked on this exhibit. Jennie Chancey, who say the exhibit, took photos and wrote down the documentation from the exhibit card. I think Ron C. from the list also toured this exhibit with me. If he did, Ron, it was the first dress in the case near the stairs. It was the Over' and Under' exhibit with the corsets, wire bustle cages, and beautiful fishtail bustle dresses. I think Ron's wife might have taken photos too. I can tell you from the collection, I can count on two hands the number of wedding dresses that were not white. I don't recall how many wedding dresses are in the collection... but I do know being largest collection is one of their bragging claims. If you can image in storage, the wedding dress area is one long (length of the warehouse) rounder like for hanging clothes at the dry cleaners with that is mobile. The rounder is about 8 ft. high. I will always remember that because I had to use a small step ladder to get each dress down. I love wedding dresses, each have their own personality. And no, in the collection, I never saw two dresses alike. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 03:06:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3386mMX025037 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:06:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336pkKo021248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:51:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336pi0h012236; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h336pg0h012217 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:51:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from p729-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.221] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190yZX-0002nj-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:51:40 +1200 Message-ID: <003401c2f9ad$7b64d7a0$ddc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Musee Galliera Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:51:40 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <> God no. It's over two grand to fly to Europe from here. I said next time I'm in paris. There are so many museums I still want to visit in Europe. But I have to wait and my health is still so up in the air I don't think I'll be getting there for several years. So when that time comes I'll be flooding the list with queries about must see costume collections:) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 03:35:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h338ZjMX029019 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:35:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h337MBKo022665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h337M92a022258; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h337M62a022105 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:22:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030403072201.41483.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 08:22:01 BST Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:22:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Seeking UK re-enactors To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030402162946.89411.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Valencia Grange wrote: > > After all, being interviewed as a expert offers such > good publicity for the interviewee that there's a > whole industry dedicated to soliciting interviews > (PR). Valencia, it is very different here in the UK, there is too much, too many requests and one cannot even be bothered about the PR factor anymore because it just isn't worth it, especially not when being the 'silly person in the costume' and yes, if you are in costume, no matter how perfectly researched, you are NOT being taken 100% seriously. Thus I don't do any of this anymore, if I am to give an academic talk I do it in my normal (well, normal is relative *G*) clothing, I would never ever again do it in costume. The academic world here is arrogant, and hey, I am one of them, for better or for worse. *laughs* Nicole - who believes in Ivory Towers ;-) ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 06:05:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33B5eMX015625 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:05:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33A3kKo029896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:03:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33A3iwj017423; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (IDENT:M8pq2TbfooF08h/tGNxGmviMObzjml9t@decna.com [195.70.174.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33A3ewj017398 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33A5CI28723 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:05:12 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:05:12 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] The Birth of Mary - layers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking at The Birth of Mary ( http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/m/master/life/birth_m.html ), and am trying to figure out the different layers that go into these outfits. I've been reading the archives and have come away with the understanding (that is, I think I've swallowed Robin's theory raw :D ) that these short-sleeved, V-necked gowns are the equivalent layer to the GFD from earlier, and may be worn with pin-on sleeves as acceptable informal clothing. This is certainly supported by the image of the woman at the left with the yellow gown, with one coloured sleeve (assumably pinned on) and just the chemise sleeve on her left arm. But what about the woman to the right of her? Her short-sleeved gown looks to me to be an outer layer since she has a green layer underneath. But the sleeves are a different green from the skirts, which suggests that perhaps the layer beneath could also be short-sleeved and the sleeves just be pinned to the outer short-sleeved gown. Or the colour variation may mean nothing and all the green bits can be a single gown. But in that case the salmon short-sleeved gown is a surcote (or what are they called in this period?). If so, would yet another layer be worn over these in order to be more formal? The lining also makes me wonder if that makes it an overgarment, or if all the layers are lined (except the chemise, of course). However, she isn't wearing anything on her head, which suggests informality. (And of course the whole situation doesn't look very formal.) The woman in green in the lower left corner has a long-sleeved gown as her outer layer, and I would suppose that she is wearing one gown between that layer and her chemise. Any thoughts on whether her ensemble is more formal than the short-sleeved gowns, or if these are just variatons of gowns with the same function? Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 10:14:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33FE7MX000861 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:14:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33E5YKo012507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:05:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33E5WTK006341; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:05:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h33E5UTK006288 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:05:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030403140524.56142.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 15:05:24 BST Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:05:24 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of... was 'UK re-enactors sought' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ... TV/film companies wanting freebies, I just this minute got yet another email from the BBC, wanting images/emblems/costumes/weapons just about anything having to do with Kirke's Lambs and the Monmouth rebellion of 1685 we might have reconstructed and/or access to, for yet another history programme. ...and guess what, for FREE! The fact that our kit is worth thousands of pounds and our research many years and thus is invaluable, that does not seem to come into the equation. Guess what my answer is: no way. Here in the UK many of us are SO sick and tired of freebies, you just wouldn't believe it. *siiiiiiigh* You know, I would have loved to help and used to do, because essentially, I am not an unkind person, but at some stage one just can't cope with this freebie-culture anymore. Costume content? Well, 1685 uniforms, no? :-) Oh, hang on, I do have a costume content, I read a fascinating article yesterday in a Reader on Economic History, about stockings in late 16th & 17th century England. Did you know Mary Queen of Scotts was wearing a pair of fine white jersey stockings (jersey is pretty much equivalent with fine in the period) next to her skin and blue worsted stockings with silver embroidery over them. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 10:32:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33FW0MX000935 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:32:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33EPvKo013986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:25:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33EPuTK014647; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:25:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33EPrTK014618 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.135]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 43400262A9C for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:25:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001301c2f9ed$00e44340$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:26:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] found the renaissance dress i want to make. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. Finally i have found the renaissance dress i want to make. It is not Elizabethan, but close, Queen Anne style. Gues what i am going to embroider next year!!!! http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server.php?request=setTemplate:singlecontent&contentTyp eA=conWebDoc&contentId=54&navId=005000002001 Yippeeeeee! What a shame i wont be able to come to the exhibition at Greenwich, but it opens may 1.st and i go on monday. Blast. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 10:55:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33FtGMX001014 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:55:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33EjlKo015176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:45:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33EjkTK022767; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:45:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33EjgTK022739 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24146 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:03:09 -0600 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:03:09 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Birth of Mary - layers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id h33EjgTK022739 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, [iso-8859-1] Ingrid G. Storrø wrote: > I'm looking at The Birth of Mary > ( http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/m/master/life/birth_m.html ), and am > trying to figure out the different layers that go into these outfits. OK, I'll bite on this one. Fortunately I also have a hardcopy verion of this picture in a museum art book from the Pinakothek, though it's not that much more illuminating. > I've been reading the archives and have come away with the > understanding (that is, I think I've swallowed Robin's theory raw :D ) > that these short-sleeved, V-necked gowns are the equivalent layer to > the GFD from earlier, and may be worn with pin-on sleeves as > acceptable informal clothing. This is certainly supported by the image > of the woman at the left with the yellow gown, with one coloured > sleeve (assumably pinned on) and just the chemise sleeve on her left > arm. > > But what about the woman to the right of her? Her short-sleeved gown > looks to me to be an outer layer since she has a green layer > underneath. But the sleeves are a different green from the skirts, > which suggests that perhaps the layer beneath could also be > short-sleeved and the sleeves just be pinned to the outer > short-sleeved gown. Or the colour variation may mean nothing and all > the green bits can be a single gown. But in that case the salmon > short-sleeved gown is a surcote (or what are they called in this > period?). If so, would yet another layer be worn over these in order > to be more formal? The lining also makes me wonder if that makes it an > overgarment, or if all the layers are lined (except the chemise, of > course). However, she isn't wearing anything on her head, which > suggests informality. (And of course the whole situation doesn't look > very formal.) I agree that the salmon gown is an outerlayer, because of the fur lining and the green dress underneath. The sleeves, though, look pretty clearly to be pin-on to me. That would make this dress a hybrid. (That's in contrast to the more typical renditions of short-sleeved gowns as underdresses, with pin-on sleeves added for modesty when they're worn without an overgown. I agree with your reading of the woman in the gold, who has removed one of her pin-on sleeves for purposes of handling the water.) Some factors that may contribute to the anomalies: 1. The painting is German, not Flemish. German style varies in some details from Flemish, in ways I haven't studied systematically, so I wouldn't rule this out as a regional variation. 2. The woman's hair is not necessarily informal -- it is braided neatly. I read this as saying she is a young unmarried woman, possibly a girl, whereas the other midwives/attendants are veiled to indicate age and marital status. Her gown may thus be more "youthful" in nature. 3. The V-neck on her gown (and probably that of the lady in gold) may not actually be a fur collar, which is normally an overdress feature. I believe they are white (silk?) scarves pulled around the neck and pinned at the front. That's something I've seen in some Flemish portraits. That would make more sense of the neck of the salmon dress, if you see the scarf as being pinned a couple of inches down from the neckline of the dress. That means the salmon triangle in the V is part of the dress. You can see some of the lacing there, and in my print, I can see the line of the front opening continue down the front of the dress, suggesting all the salmon is one continuous surface with the scarf pinned over it. On my print, I can also see parallel shadow lines along the length of the scarves to indicate bunching/pleating/pulling taut. At the center fronts, the sides of the scarves overlap at an angle -- on the gold lady, the wearer's left side of the scarf crosses over the right at the point, and on the salmon lady the right crosses over the left. By contrast, the woman on the other side of the gold lady clearly has a white fur V collar that meets in a vertical line at the center front. This is consistent with the long sleeves on her overdress, the hint of fur lining peeking out at the cuff, and the white fur lining at the turned-up hem (visible under the towel spread on her lap). She is wearing a pale green underdress with a broad band of grey fur at the bottom. At far right, another woman has a long-sleeved overdress with fur collar, fur lining, and fur cuffs. 4. The painting is religious, showing the birth of the Virgin. The midwives/attendants are thus likely represented as more wealthy, noble, and exotic than would normally be found in a realistic scene. Certainly the fabrics and furs are very rich. The young woman's dress, then, may have been an artistically gussied-up version of a more prosaic outfit -- e.g. the artist could turn a standard rendition of a basic dress into an overlayer by turning up the skirt to show a (rich) fur lining, and creating an underlayer beneath. That's my initial read. I'm open to alternatives. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 11:19:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33GJcMX001116 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:19:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33FA8Ko016965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33FA65G004453; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:10:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33FA25G004378 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h33FA0p22591.; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:10:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:10:00 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:09:41 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] found the renaissance dress i want to make. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h33FA25G004378 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: >Finally i have found the renaissance dress i want to make. >It is not Elizabethan, but close, Queen Anne style. >Gues what i am going to embroider next year!!!! >http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server.php?request=setTemplate:singlecontent&c>ontentTyp >eA=conWebDoc&contentId=54&navId=005000002001 To avoid confusion, Bjarne, "Queen Anne style" usually refers to the Anne who was Queen in her own right from 1702-14. Your dress belonged to James I's Queen (or James VI to the Scots), Anne of Denmark. We will all look forward to seeing it! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 12:09:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33H9XMX001351 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:09:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33G3mKo022079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:03:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33G3kYR005075; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33G3gYR005022 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:03:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f59.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.89]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D72455EE02E for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:03:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c2f9fa$aa38e1f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:04:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth exhibition at Greenwich X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linn Skinner, sended this to the h-needlework list, and while i browsed there, i found this picture of James VI's Queen Anne. What do you think her dress is made of, is it taffeta or is it satin? I think it is satin. And i wondered about those flower bands, they must be embroidered, because the tabs round the bodice, is having angles of the flowers. http://www.nmm.ac.uk/uploads//jpg/BHC4251.jpg Her bustline is having pink tabs i think under the flower bows, like the wings must have the same. This i want to make for my next costume projekt. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 13:27:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33IRWMX001852 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:27:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33HL7Ko029804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33HL4Ah028648; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h33HKjAh028361 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWhKqqkyel7nOpvudHZh9AiZRh96OxL41UA==">; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:20:18 PST Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HUUXRGAC; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:20:18 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:17:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth exhibition at Greenwich Message-ID: <20030403.001712.-390319.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,7-9 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am in way over my head, but have to give my two cents worth here. I agree that the fabric looks like satin. However, I would say that the pink band around the top of the bodice and the cuffs are fabric covered with lace. And the flowers sure look like ribbon flowers applied to the gown, maybe with the jewel pin in the center of each. Now, I will go hide for speaking out like I know something to such knowledgeable people. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 13:33:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33IX5MX001896 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:33:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33HOVKo000300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:24:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33HOTAh001198; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h33HONAh001066 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:24:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWhKqqkyel7nOX/BnHS9+m1f4t9NNTYiGrw==">; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:24:13 PST Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HUUXYMES; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:24:13 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:21:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth exhibition at Greenwich Message-ID: <20030403.002108.-390319.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As an afterthought, I agree that the flower bands are probably embroidered. You will be busy for a while with this one, Bjarne. And who is the lucky lady who will wear this fantastic garb when it is done, or is it for a museum? Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 14:32:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33JW6MX002186 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:32:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33IW5Ko007731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33IW3Rm019899; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33IVvRm019730 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.bf.302fa5cf (4012) for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:31:46 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:31:46 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] found the renaissance dress i want to make. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a beautiful gown. I love the pink cuffs and blue collar hazily showing under the white lace collar and cuffs. Great color scheme. And that hair! Move over Nancy Sinatra! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 14:57:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33JvLMX002326 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:57:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33IvHKo010241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33IvGE5006913; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:57:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33IvDE5006876 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:57:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02AEA7AAE1 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 17574-01 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:56:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-184-227.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.184.227]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35FEB7AAB6 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:56:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:57:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <004b01c2f987$1d9ee910$befc8218@hopperflop2> Message-Id: <0E5D194B-6606-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just finished reading The Age of Innocence, and the main character's wife has her wedding dress "made over" after the ceremony so that it will be an evening gown (or at least dinner gown, she's not very specific) for more uses in the future. .heather. On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 06:17 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > I've been adding a number of costume images to my Real Regency & > Victorian > Clothing directory, and as I do so I've been having a contemplation... > > What's with the number of so-called wedding gowns dating from the mid- > to > late-19th century (1830's-1890's) that are cut as evening dresses? > Here are > my questions: > > 1. Were weddings ever held in the evening during this period? > 2. If not, was it considered proper to wear a low-necked, > short-sleeved > dress during the day to your wedding? > > My hunch to both of those questions is no -- if so, then I'm assuming > that > museum curators have assumed that because a dress is white, it must be > a > wedding dress. I do know that while white dresses were often used for > wedding dresses in the 19th c., this wasn't always the case, and often > women > wore what was considered a "best dress." > > Some examples of this phenomenon: > http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate3.jpg > http://www.mcny.org/Collections/costume/worth/costume13.htm > http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate1.jpg (right-hand dress) > http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z4FE32114 > > Any thoughts or sources would be appreciated! > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 15:15:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33KF8MX002452 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:15:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JETKo012117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JERE5018911; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JENE5018859 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:14:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h33JENWj014071 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:14:23 -0500 Message-Id: <200304031914.h33JENWj014071@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:11:23 -0000 To: Historical Costume From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 Subject: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, This question came up on another list, and actually I wonder if the vintage people have a better idea of it. I didn't have the vintage e-mail address handy, sorry. I'm wondering about laws, both US and international, regarding products made from endangered species. I've heard that eagle feathers are illegal to sell. What about other materials, such as ivory or baleen? We make repro costume, but frequently have opportunities to buy originals for study and to show during presentations. Someone wrote that it's ok to sell antique stays that are boned with baleen, but not a piece of baleen, even if it was from an antique dress or old seamstress' supplies. Where can I find information on the current laws? Have they changed recently? I've seen some of these items for sale in antique shops and on E-bay within the past three years, which seems odd if it's illegal to sell them. Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 15:30:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33KUQMX002511 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:30:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JUDKo013556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JUBE5029467; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h33JU8E5029361 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCm3nss71y2wVJS+UFDzqPsDMh5KjqwzUQg==">; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:29:12 EST Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HUU65GWD; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:29:12 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:16:46 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Message-ID: <20030403.131647.-82666823.21.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-12 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe that you'd need to check with the Department of Fish and Game. They are generally the ones who inspect places for violations. And in terms of being illegal to sell eagle products, it's illegal to even have them in your possession unless you are Native American/First Nations. A good friend of mine was given an eagle feather by an older Indian woman as a sign of appreciation. He made the mistake of wearing it to a pow-wow/rendezvous and had it confiscated by officers of the DF&G. I don't know if he was fined for having it or not, but even tho he has a small amount of Native American in his background, it wasn't enough to justify him owning the eagle feather. They have NO sense of humor about stuff like that. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 15:41:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33KfKMX002579 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:41:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JeXKo014517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JeWE5006119; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33JeRE5006022 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.99.96.216]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030403194022.LDDQ13930.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:40:22 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:03:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c2f9d9$01fea400$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200304031914.h33JENWj014071@jefferson.patriot.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Carol~ The first place I would check would be your state's department of wildlife. They can best advise you of the current laws regarding such items, or can direct you elsewhere if need be. This info may be online in your state, so check there first. Each state has its own laws, so it's really hard to give a blanket answer here. I believe the issue with eagle feathers is not only that they are endangered, but they are the national bird, so doubly taboo. Also check with the U.S. Customs Department, they should be able to tell you a lot too. Again, look online first. Here in Virginia I've been told that possession of some common deer products is illegal. I think there are some caveats to that, or else every hunter in the state would have to turn in the trophy head over their fireplace mantle. I know that I have seen a copy of the Va. statute regarding this, (it was a number of years ago, sorry) and it was hard to decipher the legalese but it seemed like my display antlers and hides could be under suspicion if the wrong person walked up. I think the deal is that if you had a license and killed it yourself, then it is considered yours, but you couldn't give me parts off of it, and you most certainly can't sell the meat or anything for profit. Of course if you are Native American, most of the domestic rules don't apply. I don't know about the international ones, but I tend to doubt it. I think a lot of what gets sold on Ebay and other places like that just are a matter of enforcement. The items may be illegal or in a 'gray area', but there just isn't the legal manpower to keep up with the volume, and of course it's needed other places more urgently. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of aquazoo@patriot.net Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 2:11 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Hi, This question came up on another list, and actually I wonder if the vintage people have a better idea of it. I didn't have the vintage e-mail address handy, sorry. I'm wondering about laws, both US and international, regarding products made from endangered species. I've heard that eagle feathers are illegal to sell. What about other materials, such as ivory or baleen? We make repro costume, but frequently have opportunities to buy originals for study and to show during presentations. Someone wrote that it's ok to sell antique stays that are boned with baleen, but not a piece of baleen, even if it was from an antique dress or old seamstress' supplies. Where can I find information on the current laws? Have they changed recently? I've seen some of these items for sale in antique shops and on E-bay within the past three years, which seems odd if it's illegal to sell them. Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 17:32:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33MWaMX003192 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:32:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33LWAKo025760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33LW8KZ020758; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33LW4KZ020673 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:32:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.116] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A591BAC00EA; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:20:17 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c2fa28$ccbefe20$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0E5D194B-6606-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:27:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather, I have a wedding gown of that period that was given to me with two bodices, one obviously for evening. The fabric is the same for both. I also have another gown in which it is possible to see that the neckline has been altered, as in "Innocence". My daughter's eyelet wedding gown was found in an antique shop with the bride's papers that gave name and date. As I was paying for it ,the owner said,"Did you see the second day dress?" Well, no; she then showed me the beautiful velvet suit in nearly new condition...and then what obviously has to have been the gown for the 25th anniversary! She knew the family from whom she acquired the 'set'. The size of the gown and suit were the same and the other gown was believable for the length and projection of style change. So of course I bought all three pieces, with the thought that if they had made it together for 110 years, they surely deserved a chance to stay together. A small local historical society in NH put out a little wedding book for their valley. Another tradition of the time seems that the First Day was the ceremony either at home or at the registry with only family present. The Second Day was for the public celebration. This was often an evening event. I think it was Penny who mentioned fall as a popular time for weddings. For country folk, this would have been after harvest; for city types, the time would fit the return to the city after the heat of summer was over...and the usual time for "The Season". Kathleen Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? > I just finished reading The Age of Innocence, and the main > character's wife has her wedding dress "made over" after > the ceremony so that it will be an evening gown (or at least dinner > gown, she's not very specific) for more uses in the future. > > .heather. > > On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 06:17 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > > I've been adding a number of costume images to my Real Regency & > > Victorian > > Clothing directory, and as I do so I've been having a contemplation... > > > > What's with the number of so-called wedding gowns dating from the mid- > > to > > late-19th century (1830's-1890's) that are cut as evening dresses? > > Here are > > my questions: > > > > 1. Were weddings ever held in the evening during this period? > > 2. If not, was it considered proper to wear a low-necked, > > short-sleeved > > dress during the day to your wedding? > > > > My hunch to both of those questions is no -- if so, then I'm assuming > > that > > museum curators have assumed that because a dress is white, it must be > > a > > wedding dress. I do know that while white dresses were often used for > > wedding dresses in the 19th c., this wasn't always the case, and often > > women > > wore what was considered a "best dress." > > > > Some examples of this phenomenon: > > http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate3.jpg > > http://www.mcny.org/Collections/costume/worth/costume13.htm > > http://www.bridallexington.com/museum/plate1.jpg (right-hand dress) > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z4FE32114 > > > > Any thoughts or sources would be appreciated! > > > > - Kendra > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 17:34:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h33MY0MX003201 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:34:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33KkoKo020807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:46:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h33KkexP020020; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80110.mail.yahoo.com (web80110.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h33KkYxP019931 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:46:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030403204634.67235.qmail@web80110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:46:34 PST Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:46:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304031445.h33EjvTL022826@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Speaking of... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole wrote: <<... TV/film companies wanting freebies, I just this minute got yet another email from the BBC, wanting images/emblems/costumes/weapons just about anything having to do with Kirke's Lambs and the Monmouth rebellion of 1685 we might have reconstructed and/or access to, for yet another history programme. ...and guess what, for FREE! The fact that our kit is worth thousands of pounds and our research many years and thus is invaluable, that does not seem to come into the equation. Guess what my answer is: no way. Here in the UK many of us are SO sick and tired of freebies, you just wouldn't believe it. *siiiiiiigh* You know, I would have loved to help and used to do, because essentially, I am not an unkind person, but at some stage one just can't cope with this freebie-culture anymore.>> I think there might also be a difference in attitude because of how reenacting is structured here in the US. Most historical reenactors in the US, especially those involved in military reenacting, belong to non-profit educational organizations, described under Section 501(c)3 of the US tax code. As a result, reenactors can deduct as "charitable expenses" their out-of-pocket expenses for costumes, gear, travel to and from events, the items consumed at events (like food and gun powder). The catch is, as these are "educational organizations," we're sort of required to be helpful to the public, and that usually includes news crews and documentarians. It's the price you pay to get the $$$$ tax deduction. This doesn't mean that we have to oblige anyone and everyone: if doing a bit of work for a commercial venture (whether it is appearing as an extra, renting equipment, or appearing as "local color" at an event), contractual arrangements are usually made with the organization and the members for payment, insurance coverage, etc. Sometimes this "doing stuff for free" has some funny results. About 20 years ago, the Renaissance Military Society was asked by a Bay Area museum to make an appearance in connection with the opening of a big exhibition from the armory at Graz. They did, and were relaxing outside the museum when a film crew from Austrian TV showed up to cover the exhibition. They couldn't get in, so the RMS obliged them by letting them film the group. One of the things they filmed were 3 of the members acting silly with a 3-handled pitcher full of beer: the goal was to hang on to the pitcher, drink the beer, and try not to spill it on yourself, while the other two people were holding on to it and trying to get it away. These three people were waltzing and wrestling around and the film crew caught the whole thing on tape. A few months later, it appeared on Austrian TV as part of a piece on the Graz exhibition, and was identified as the "Nurnburg Beer Dance." Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 20:07:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3417PMX004116 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:07:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3406tKo016101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3406l7d005232; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:06:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3406G7d004937 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2035 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2003 00:50:09 -0000 Received: from 66-44-110-170.s2202.apx2.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.110.170) by shada.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2003 00:50:09 -0000 Message-ID: <3E8CCEC1.9080109@oldwaylane.net> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:16:01 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling References: <200304031914.h33JENWj014071@jefferson.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <200304031914.h33JENWj014071@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > I'm wondering about laws, both US and international, regarding products > made from endangered species. I've heard that eagle feathers are illegal to > sell. What about other materials, such as ivory or baleen? > > We make repro costume, but frequently have opportunities to buy originals > for study and to show during presentations. Someone wrote that it's ok to sell > antique stays that are boned with baleen, but not a piece of baleen, even if it > was from an antique dress or old seamstress' supplies. > > Where can I find information on the current laws? Well Carol, you're in MD, so I can tell you sorta what MD has to say on such subjects (or at least what the run-around you'll get is). You talk to the woman whose name I've forgotten at Fish & Wildlife. she'll tell you whether you're allowed to own something or not. However, she's frankly not too swift since she will also tell you that bear parts are federally protected and that it is illegal in all states to hunt/own any bear products and we know that's completely ridiculous. But she'll insist. And there isn't anyone else in the state that you can talk to because they will all send you to her as she is the one who knows everything. In point of fact, as far as owning stays that have the baleen in them, the rangers (who are the ones who patrol rendezvous' and maek the citations) don't really care as long as you don't have piles of the stuff and broadcasting about it. But this is only MD law, each state is different. I had to go through all of this when we were reasearching fur info for a camp hunting display. -Judy Mitchell (who is annoyed at being too ethical/nervous to accept a gift of a small basket made of whale baleen from someone in Norway!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 20:35:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h341Z3MX004296 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:35:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h340Z9Ko020644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h340Z87d021755; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:35:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h340Z37d021694 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from p21-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.85] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 191FAZ-0000Jz-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:34:59 +1200 Message-ID: <004c01c2fa42$077970e0$55ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030403.001712.-390319.3.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth exhibition at Greenwich Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:35:00 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am in way over my head, but have to give my two cents worth > here. I agree that the fabric looks like satin. However, I would say > that the pink band around the top of the bodice and the cuffs are fabric > covered with lace. And the flowers sure look like ribbon flowers applied > to the gown, maybe with the jewel pin in the center of each. He was talking about the little flowers on the fabric itself all over the sleeves and bodice. I agree embroidered or applied in some way looks most logical. Bjarne do you have the V&A publication Historic Costume in Detail? Or is it Historic Fashion in Detail.... either way it's jammed full of images from around this era, before and after and in nearly every piece the surface deoration is applied. I adore this colour scheme by the way. And the style of dress.. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 21:20:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h342KKMX004492 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:20:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341H7Ko023680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:17:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341H6np011456; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341H2np011410 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.127.231]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCS00DBOOTFF8@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 17:15:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 13:52:47 -0800 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling In-reply-to: <20030403.131647.-82666823.21.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I believe that you'd need to check with the Department of Fish and Game. I've heard this too. And the one about those folks having no sense of humor about the matter. Possibilities include a fine, confiscation of the entire garment, imprisonment, or a combination of the above. I checked with Fish and Game when I went looking for what stuffed birds were ok to put on my historical hats. I'd heard a rumor that some things that were old enough were ok, like so called 'fossil ivory' is. Their website has a place to ask their question Ranger questions. I asked there, about the specific bird I wanted, and got a prompt reply (anything with a legal hunting season, like a pheasant, is assumed to have been taken legally and is OK). >They are generally the ones who inspect places for violations. And in >terms of being illegal to sell eagle products, it's illegal to even have >them in your possession unless you are Native American/First Nations. A >good friend of mine was given an eagle feather by an older Indian woman >as a sign of appreciation. He made the mistake of wearing it to a >pow-wow/rendezvous and had it confiscated by officers of the DF&G. I >don't know if he was fined for having it or not, but even tho he has a >small amount of Native American in his background, it wasn't enough to >justify him owning the eagle feather. They have NO sense of humor about >stuff like that. > > >Karen > >________________________________________________________________ >Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today >Only $9.95 per month! >Visit www.juno.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 21:33:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h342X8MX004632 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:33:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341XHKo024962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341XFnp017935; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:33:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341XCnp017907 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.170] (pm5-170.eos.net [205.133.149.170]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14954 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:32:39 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:29:08 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304031445.h33EjvTL022826@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: birth of mary X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about the older woman standing by the bed, the one in the grey dress? The dress seems to have folds or pleats in the center front, but it also seems to be fitted. I have seen pictures like this before and I've never figured out what's going on. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 21:34:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h342YeMX004641 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:34:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341YrKo025061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341Yqnp018569; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341Yonp018546 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.170] (pm5-170.eos.net [205.133.149.170]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15643 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:34:17 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:30:45 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304031900.h33J0gE6009342@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's new project X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I try that site I don't get any photos of costumes or portraits, just a house and a painting of a ship. Did you go to the ball yet, Bjarne? How was it? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 21:42:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h342gPMX004718 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:42:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341gUKo025634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:42:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341gUnp021890; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h341gQnp021871 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:42:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCS00J0EQ2OZK@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 17:42:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 17:38:30 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth exhibition at Greenwich In-reply-to: <004c01c2fa42$077970e0$55ccadcb@michaela> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030403173541.00af49a8@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/1/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <20030403.001712.-390319.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:35 PM 4/4/2003 +1200, you wrote: >Bjarne do you have the V&A publication Historic Costume in Detail? Or is it >Historic Fashion in Detail.... either way it's jammed full of images from >around this era, before and after and in nearly every piece the surface >deoration is applied. It's called "Fashion in Detail: From the 17th and 18th Centuries" by Avril Hart and Susan North. What a yummy book it is too. Not my normal time period of costumes, but it's details and close-ups of costumes are so worth getting the book for me. I wish modern clothes could be so beautiful, especially with all the embroideries. {sigh} Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 3 23:17:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h344H7MX005741 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:17:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h343HFKo002146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h343HDRl009371; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h343H8Rl009301 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:17:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from p37-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.165] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 191HhQ-0001Ug-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:17:05 +1200 Message-ID: <002e01c2fa58$adcb19b0$a5cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030403.001712.-390319.3.catpurson@juno.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030403173541.00af49a8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth exhibition at Greenwich Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:17:08 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What a yummy book it is too. Not my normal time period of costumes, but > it's details and close-ups of costumes are so worth getting the book for me. I know. Not my usual eras but gosh.. I bought it as soom as I saw it;) I also have Bradfield's book with a similar name and often get the titles confused;) > I wish modern clothes could be so beautiful, especially with all the > embroideries. {sigh} They do actually have a modern fashion book and world fashion book of the same kind and they are also extremely fabulous. The world one I'm especially fond of and would buy it ... probably put aside some money each week over winter:) The images are equally compelling if of a diffrent kind of jaw dropping:) While I was a Te Papa for the LotR exhibit there was also a lovely 1930s blouse made from piping. I took a pic if anyone is interested in it? I'm just processing my domain reg and new site so fairly soon I'll have a place to send people to look at these things:) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume this will still remain active though:) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 00:15:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h345FgMX005956 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:15:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h344FtKo006189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h344Fr0Q002517; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:15:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h344Fo0Q002477 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:15:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [167.142.15.25] (HELO herselftifhj9g) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 316474939 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 22:15:49 -0600 Message-ID: <03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:16:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > website has a place to ask their question Ranger questions. I asked there, > about the specific bird I wanted, and got a prompt reply (anything with a > legal hunting season, like a pheasant, is assumed to have been taken > legally and is OK). usually you can assume that any introduced species is also legal. For instance it is illegal to possess migratory song birds (cardinals, finches, etc) but non-native pest species (like starlings in the US) are okay. It would be interesting to see a stuffed starling as part of a costume! Maybe perched in a tall highly ornamented hat. I suppose there is a feather covered accessory that could be done all in black for *some* one's period of choice. :-) Denise landofoz@netins.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 01:00:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3460iMX006047 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3450gKo009168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3450eeA019548; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3450VeB019314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14369 invoked by alias); 4 Apr 2003 05:00:21 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.125.20?) (65.24.125.20) by mail.donet.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2003 05:00:21 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:56:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors From: Marsha Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> ...most if not all UK acedemics I have spoken >> to on the subject would rarely if ever do this for free and if they >> did would generally have a motive (eg book) > They wouldn't give an interview for free? I'm stunned. That's not the > impression I get from any of the academics I know... > But we all present papers for free, and typically contribute articles to > books and journals at our own expense... ----------------------------------- This appears to be a US/UK cultural difference. I've worked 27 years in academe in the US. I'm on a contact list, used by radio, tv, and print journalists to locate people to interview. During an interview, it is crass to mention one's publications unless related to the topic, so it's not an opportunity to hawk books. Our contact list includes scholars with international reputations who receive fees for speaking engagements. But interviews here are free. A paid interview gives the appearance (here) of potentially tainting information since the interviewee stands to gain financially from presenting opinions the interviewer wants. Another reason academic interviews in the US are free probably relates to the tenure and promotion reward system. Most institutions require evidence of accomplishments in teaching, research/publication, and service (to one's department, university, profession, subject, and the public.) Giving interviews is both "educating the public" and evidence that one has a reputation sufficient to be desirable as a subject. Each year at evaluation time, my colleagues and I include interviews in our Faculty Annual Reports. The more prestigious the outlet, the more "credit" one gets. The same applies to gratis research papers, organizing panels, workshops, speeches for civic groups, etc. It is considered service and is an expected part of most academic jobs, free and usually performed on one's own time. This must be a US/UK difference. Marsha Shameless plug: Marsha J. Hamilton and Eleanor S. Block. Projecting Ethnicity and Race: An Annotated Bibliography of Studies on Imagery in American Film. Praeger, 2003. We mentioned costumes a few times :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 01:18:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h346IgMX006107 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:18:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h345IqKo010267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h345ImeA026500; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:18:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h345IieB026423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:18:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20753 invoked by alias); 4 Apr 2003 05:18:39 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.125.20?) (65.24.125.20) by mail.donet.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2003 05:18:39 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:14:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Seeking UK re-enactors From: Marsha Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030403072201.41483.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > if I am to give an academic talk I do it in my normal (well, normal is relative *G*) clothing, I would never ever again do it in costume. The academic world here is arrogant, and hey, I am one of them, for better or for worse. > *laughs* > > Nicole - who believes in Ivory Towers ;-) ------------ The academic world everywhere is arrogant, I think. After seeing your website picture in the leather bodice, I wonder what you wear to work! Maybe we should all commission Bjarne to make a beautiful new uniform for academics. Wouldn't it be wonderful to work in yards of ruched silk or velvet trimmed robes? Fur-trimmed sleeves dusting across the stacks of books in the library, students staring at the folds of draped satin distractedly during lectures? I'd like to see THAT. Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 02:02:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34729MX006466 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 02:02:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3462LKo012451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:02:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3462JLs011544; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:02:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3462HLs011536 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:02:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp299.dialsprint.net ([63.178.237.165] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 191KHI-0006f2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 01:02:17 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030403235112.03760908@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:01:21 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200304040503.h3451DeB019775@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Endangered buying & selling X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or you can build a replica. For a state costume (Nebraska) for a beauty pageant I built the headdress to have a life-size replica of a sandhill crane (head and neck-what would be a bust sculpture for a human). I used styrofoam, cardboard, and lots of rooster hackle feathers in the proper colors, each trimmed and glued on individually. Also, if anyone needs natural animal products: Moscow Hide and Fur (Moscow, Idaho) www.moscowhideandfur.com Just about anything that can be ranched or hunted legally in Idaho is available. Have gotten buffalo horns, bear claws and teeth from them. No affiliation, just satisfied customer. Sandy >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling > > > website has a place to ask their question Ranger questions. I asked >there, > > about the specific bird I wanted, and got a prompt reply (anything with a > > legal hunting season, like a pheasant, is assumed to have been taken > > legally and is OK). > >usually you can assume that any introduced species is also legal. For >instance it is illegal to possess migratory song birds (cardinals, finches, >etc) but non-native pest species (like starlings in the US) are okay. It >would be interesting to see a stuffed starling as part of a costume! Maybe >perched in a tall highly ornamented hat. I suppose there is a feather >covered accessory that could be done all in black for *some* one's period of >choice. :-) > >Denise >landofoz@netins.net "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 03:10:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h348AkMX016829 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347ArKo015822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347ApEl008021; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:10:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h347AnEl007983 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:10:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030404071044.49248.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:10:44 BST Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:10:44 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: 'academic silks & laces' Re: [h-cost] Re: Seeking UK re-enactors To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Marsha Hamilton wrote: > > The academic world everywhere is arrogant, I think. yep, but there are country differences, I think Germany is even more arrogant than UK. :-) > After seeing your website picture in the leather bodice, I wonder what you > wear to work! *laughs!* No, not anything quite like that... but big frilly shirts, tight waistcoats, embroideries, flowy surcoats, glittery bits and pearls on velets, Indian embroidered jackets and coats and huge sparkly shawls, etc etc... Maybe we should all commission Bjarne to make a beautiful new > uniform for academics. Wouldn't it be wonderful to work in yards of ruched > silk or velvet trimmed robes? Fur-trimmed sleeves dusting across the stacks > of books in the library, students staring at the folds of draped satin > distractedly during lectures? I'd like to see THAT. YES!!! How wonderful Marsha, let's all petition to bring back the academic gown, preferrably in heavy black silks or velvets with jewel colour silk linings, perhaps something like they wear in Hogwarth? Hmmm.... WANT! Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 03:14:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h348EHMX017252 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:14:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347EUKo015954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347ETEl009228; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347EREl009185 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:14:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20030404071420051005sukme>; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:14:20 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c2fa79$cfc07a80$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0E5D194B-6606-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> <002201c2fa28$ccbefe20$655183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian "wedding" dresses? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:14:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on my Victorian wedding dresses question. I did know about making second bodices or reworking dresses for wear after the wedding, but I didn't think about it as I was thinking of this question! That may be the answer for many of these dresses. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 03:19:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h348J2MX017968 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:19:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347IoKo016168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347InEl010809; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347IkEl010720 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-113-224.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.113.224]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABL87654; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:18:36 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <009701c2fa7a$ca8baa20$c9774ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:21:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This appears to be a US/UK cultural difference. I've worked 27 years in academe in the US. I'm on a contact list, used by radio, tv, and print journalists to locate people to interview. During an interview, it is crass to mention one's publications unless related to the topic, so it's not an opportunity to hawk books. I think you misunderstood slightly, the reason for the interview is often specifically on the book subject. Generally though a fairly narrow range of subject interest tends toi mean all an acedemics books are reasonably relevent to the subject, eg if you write on costume & are talking about costume it is on the subject. I think the main difference UK/US is the volume per person we get here now and the disregard one is held in, with reasonable respect we might not have got so jaded :) I differ from Nicole about doing talks in costume. But this may be to a different audience, if the costume content is relevent both my husband and I would wear costume, the audience would range generally from interested public, school to undergrad. We find it a great ice breaker, and tends to invite a lot more audience participation. Both of us prefer interactive talks rather than talking at people, as we think that it is often important that listeners learn what they want to know rather than what we think they ought to know. I don't like taking at people :) Obviously within this there are learning outcomes in a formal situations and there is a balance between where you are going and where the audience wants to go. I'm not sure I've ever got the impression people see me as a person in a silly costume, ever teenagers, they might giggle a bit at the unfashionablyness of it all, but I like to use the humor to get them to think of the difference, perhaps restrictions on their lives were they wearing such clothes. We also encorage people to try out clothes and objects and there are always more people that clothes !! But we do get paid for this. For Gareth it is a good percentage of his living. As I said before those paying really do value your input far more and you personally get a lot more back from the experiance. (we do do some freebies for museums and our own kids schools) When we give talks etc, we like to bring to life the subject and take people to places they have not been, I love doing talks and seeing people really interested is seeing things in a new light. I hope they have questions they want to find answers for at the end, to me it is about starting a train of thought and no about providing definative answers because there rarely are any. I suppose this differs so much from pulp media archaeology that even paid I'd not be very interested in the format they tend to present, where the public actually believe the archaeologists are some kind of mega being who KNOWS exactly what things are, this to me is very dangerous education. Everyone can have an opinion and shopuld be encoraged to present it and think around it. Off my soap box now !!! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 03:23:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h348NxMX018702 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347OAKo016415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347O7El012710; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347O5El012674 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:24:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20030404072400053002n9ebe>; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:24:00 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c2fa7b$291f8c50$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:23:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] garment conversions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recently picked up a 1971 issue of the Bulletin of the Costume Institute (Met Museum) on ebay, and there's a fascinating article on dress conversions. Apparently a number of dresses in the Met's collection, including the 1690-95 mantua that's in _In Style: Celebrating 50 Years of the Costume Institute_ and this 1780s robe a l'anglaise (http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1.asp?dep=8&full=0&item=CI+66%2E39 a%2Cb) were remade at various points in their life, and the museum decided to reconvert them back to as "original" a state as they could. The 1780s robe a l'anglaise, for example, was actually originally a 1760 robe a la francaise, later remade around 1785ish, and then again around 1900. They found some really interesting things when they unpicked the dress -- for example, when they took apart the c. 1900 bodice, they found a pleat at the bodice side front seams that covered the original (1760s) armhole. Fascinating reading! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 03:41:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h348fVMX021442 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:41:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347ffKo017130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347feEl018194; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h347fbEl018149 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:41:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030404074132.56403.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:41:32 BST Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:41:32 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking UK re-enactors To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <009701c2fa7a$ca8baa20$c9774ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > I think the main difference UK/US is the volume per person we get here now > and the disregard one is held in, with reasonable respect we might not have > got so jaded :) > Frankly, if I ever get an acceptable request for an interview, I would do it for free BUT teh difference is, a equest for an interview because of my academic writing OR a request for goodness-knows-what because of being a re-enactor. Two completely different things AND one is treated completely differently. > > I differ from Nicole about doing talks in costume. But this may be to a > different audience, if the costume content is relevent both my husband and I > would wear costume, the audience would range generally from interested > public, school to undergrad. Ahhh, Mel, no differing here, because I fully agree regarding he audience. I would do the same for schools etc. perhaps even still for generally interested public, but never ever even in my wildest dreams to academics. I have already heard (and that from my chair! Thankfully not from my second supervisor) 'oh, how quaint, she is doing something on costume' admittedly Professor Vincent is a bit of a twat occasionally, but you should have seen my supervisor, she jumped down her colleague's throat and told him off for disregarding the subject. *G* We find it a great ice breaker, and tends to > invite a lot more audience participation. Both of us prefer interactive > talks rather than talking at people, as we think that it is often important > that listeners learn what they want to know rather than what we think they > ought to know. I don't like taking at people :) I do actually, I prefer to talk at than to talk with, unless it is the Q & A session at the end of he talk. Obviously within this there > are learning outcomes in a formal situations and there is a balance between > where you are going and where the audience wants to go. Yep, and nowadays I prefer the formal situations. I love going to conferences, and that is my favourite set-up, both in the audience and in the front. > When we give talks etc, we like to bring to life the subject and take people > to places they have not been, I love doing talks and seeing people really > interested is seeing things in a new light. I hope they have questions they > want to find answers for at the end, to me it is about starting a train of > thought and no about providing definative answers because there rarely are > any. True, but it does not depend at all on being in a costume or not! It depends on how one talks, and trust me, I can get interest going even if I ever was to wear a 'business suit'. ;-) What does the head of the history department call my presentation syle? "Enthusiastic, lively, colourful" *LOL* now is that a good thing or was he politely trying to be rude? ;-) > Off my soap box now !!! Oi! Leave me some space on it! Come on, move a tad to the side, I am sure we can both fit onto it. :-) Nicole P.S. More costume content: 70% of all patents given to cloth makers for innovations in the period 1665 - 1700 were for treatment of cloth/atterns/new types of cloth fibre mixes, etc. Now does that eman I can find samples in the patent office? apparently yes.... WHEEEHEE! ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 03:57:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h348v4MX023640 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:57:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347vIKo017962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347vHhi023753; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:57:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h347vEhi023740 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:57:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-113-224.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.113.224]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABL89790; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:57:12 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ba01c2fa80$2efbb180$c9774ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030404074132.56403.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:59:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Talking in costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Two completely different things AND one is treated completely differently. Agreed >Ahhh, Mel, no differing here, because I fully agree regarding he audience. I would do the same for schools etc. perhaps even still for generally interested public, but never ever even in my wildest dreams to academics. I can understand that to some extent but I feel the aucdemics are a fault here not the costumed person. We had one so called acedemic have a go about a brooch being 100 years out of date when we were giving a free show at a museum. (not one of my brooches incidentially) but the person he had a go at provided kit and time out of their own funds I think if he was so great he should be there giving instead of taking ! (I do find a lot of acedemic situations highly self serving) >'oh, how quaint, she is doing something on costume' Well I don't think you should be put off by one person, I wonder how many thought great but never thought to say so ? >I do actually, I prefer to talk at than to talk with, unless it is the Q & A session at the end of he talk. Styles differ and there isn't one right or wrong :) It is just my prefered style >True, but it does not depend at all on being in a costume or not! Not completly, no I didn't mean to suggest it does, other subjects I talk on are totally inappropriate in costme (er ....horse genetics for instance(horse suit ? naw!)) But where the subject is costume related I find it provides additional interest and a potentially faster response, especially with kids and the general public Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 05:19:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34AJNMX002385 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 05:19:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h349JYKo021633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 02:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h349JXJT019597; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 02:19:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (IDENT:48ETAcdKbne+Wv8/Luy2INzGud9oHxN6@decna.com [195.70.174.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h349JUJT019574 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 02:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h349LIG30052 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:21:18 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:21:18 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Birth of Mary - layers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, [iso-8859-1] Ingrid G. Storrø wrote: > > > I'm looking at The Birth of Mary > > ( http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/m/master/life/birth_m.html ), and am > > trying to figure out the different layers that go into these outfits. > > OK, I'll bite on this one. Yay! :D > I agree that the salmon gown is an outerlayer, because of the fur lining > and the green dress underneath. It's a fur lining? In the online image I think it looks like it drapes like the outer layer, which I'd assumed was wool. The texture doesn't look like fur to me either, unless it's an extremely short-haired, sleek kind. Is there some convention for painting fur in this period that I should bear in mind when looking at pictures form this region/period? > Some factors that may contribute to the anomalies: > > 1. The painting is German, not Flemish. German style varies in some > details from Flemish, in ways I haven't studied systematically, so I > wouldn't rule this out as a regional variation. > > 2. The woman's hair is not necessarily informal -- it is braided neatly. I > read this as saying she is a young unmarried woman, possibly a girl, > whereas the other midwives/attendants are veiled to indicate age and > marital status. Her gown may thus be more "youthful" in nature. True, regional variations may definitely be an issue, and youth as well. Martin Schongauer's The Fifth Wise Virgin ( http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/s/schongau/graphics/wise5.html ) also has a similiar outfit sith short-sleeved outer layer and pin-on sleeves (although with a waist seam and pleated skirt), but well... She's a "wise virgin"; I'm concerned that this makes the depiction of her costume somewhat less than reliable as a representative source. :) > 3. The V-neck on her gown (and probably that of the lady in gold) may not > actually be a fur collar, which is normally an overdress feature. I > believe they are white (silk?) scarves pulled around the neck and pinned > at the front. That's something I've seen in some Flemish portraits. That > would make more sense of the neck of the salmon dress, if you see the > scarf as being pinned a couple of inches down from the neckline of the > dress. That means the salmon triangle in the V is part of the dress. Yes, I agree with this as well. (But then I don't seem to be able to distiguish fur from wool here, so that may mean nothing. ;) ) > By contrast, the woman on the other side of the gold lady clearly > has a white fur V collar that meets in a vertical line at the center > front. This is consistent with the long sleeves on her overdress, the hint > of fur lining peeking out at the cuff, and the white fur lining at the > turned-up hem (visible under the towel spread on her lap). She is wearing > a pale green underdress with a broad band of grey fur at the bottom. Again, I hadn't identified the broad band on the underdress as fur; it looks green to me. I'm definitely with you on the white fur though. The collar, is it a separate piece, or an integral part of the overgown? Iis the entire sleeve lined since the fur is poking out, or is it just a decorative collar? > 4. The painting is religious, showing the birth of the Virgin. The > midwives/attendants are thus likely represented as more wealthy, noble, > and exotic than would normally be found in a realistic scene. Certainly > the fabrics and furs are very rich. The young woman's dress, then, may > have been an artistically gussied-up version of a more prosaic outfit -- > e.g. the artist could turn a standard rendition of a basic dress into an > overlayer by turning up the skirt to show a (rich) fur lining, and > creating an underlayer beneath. True, that's definitely possible. Do you think that's the case with the Scongauer pic as well? If anyone has more (German) pictures of this style with the short-sleeved overgown I'd love to know, since enough of them might establish whether we're seeing regional variations or artistic license for religious purposes. :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 09:19:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34EJ7MX022612 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:19:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DJAKo002401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DJ8xh004378; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DJ4xh004347 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-059-119.neo.rr.com [24.209.59.119]) by ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h34DJ3JD005126 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:19:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004101c2faac$c2e212f0$773bd118@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:19:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Off Topic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings. I was wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US DVD players?? There's a DVD I'd like to get for my husband, but it's only available from the BBC. (I've got a friend stationed at Lakenheath who's willing to buy it and mail here for me). Thanks. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 09:29:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34ESxMX022635 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:29:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DT9Ko002878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DT6xh007957; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:29:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DT3xh007903 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-110-65.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.110.65])3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABJ87343; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:28:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <067201c2faae$21eb7dd0$07634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004101c2faac$c2e212f0$773bd118@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:28:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I was wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US DVD players?? Should be no problem all should be compatible that is supposed to be the point of them :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 09:30:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34EUrMX022648 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:30:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DV4Ko003016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DV3xh008639; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DV0xh008615 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [212.227.126.224] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191RHY-0007o6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:31:00 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191RHX-000526-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:31:00 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030404142742.023cda28@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:30:51 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic In-Reply-To: <004101c2faac$c2e212f0$773bd118@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:19 04/04/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US >DVD players?? No, the British DVD's are in PAL format and in America you use NTSC. If you try to play them you will get a black and white picture that will keep breaking up. There are places in the USA that will take your DVD and convert it, but please don't ask me how much they charge as I don't have a clue. For anyone interested most European TV's and DVD players will handle American DVD's. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 09:31:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34EVhMX022652 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:31:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DVuKo003074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DVtxh008969; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:31:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h34DVrxh008908 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:31:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030404133148.6014.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:31:48 BST Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:31:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <004101c2faac$c2e212f0$773bd118@duncan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- ailith wrote: > Greetings. > > I was wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US > DVD players?? I'm answering on-list because it might be of interest: The best way to go is make sure that you buy a Region 0 DVD. Most DVD players nowadays play the region 0 ones, which are compatible with both the US and the Europe system. Ours downstairs does, and that's the cheapish one, bought last Christmas. There are also DVD players, are they called Apex 1500 or so? I read that on the Robin of Sherwood list, I believe, which pays all regions. > There's a DVD I'd like to get for my husband, but it's only available > from the BBC. (I've got a friend stationed at Lakenheath who's willing > to buy it and mail here for me). Lakenheath? Lucky one! I would really love to see the excavation of the Anglo-Saxon horse man, or at least where he was buried, but alas, the area is an occupation one and thus one can't see it. *sigh* I LOVE the horse-man from Lakenheath. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 09:33:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34EX1MX022659 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:33:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DXHKo003194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DXFxh009430; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:33:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h34DXCxh009386 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:33:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030404133306.2654.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:33:06 BST Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:33:06 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <067201c2faae$21eb7dd0$07634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >I was wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US > DVD players?? > > Should be no problem all should be compatible that is supposed to be the > point of them :) No it isn't, sorry. There are different regions, region 2 is here and region 1 is US. The last couple years most DVD's are region 0. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 09:42:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34EgQMX022700 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:42:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DgxKo003926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:42:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34Dguxh013963; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:42:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34Dgrxh013945 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-110-65.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.110.65])3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABJ88507; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:41:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <06e001c2faaf$ef49b0c0$07634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030404133306.2654.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:41:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >No it isn't, sorry. There are different regions, region 2 is here and region 1 is US. The last couple years most DVD's are region 0. Odd mine works everywhere maybe that is because it is a computer one. I buiy US DVDs & tapes with no problems Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 09:50:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34Eo3MX022725 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:50:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DoHKo004347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DoGxh016799; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34DoExh016776 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-110-65.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.110.65])3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABJ89227; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:50:11 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <070001c2fab1$1b017170$07634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030404133306.2654.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:50:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah got it most UK players are multi regional & most US arn't so we can play anything & the US can't How odd why don't they make them all the same it is very dumb ! That is a shame for you really If it helps there is a transfer place near me that can reformat videos & maybe DVDs to other formats ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 10:13:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34FDNMX022795 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:13:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EDMKo005560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EDLS5025821; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EDJS5025803 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:13:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [212.227.126.224] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191RwU-0006qr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:13:18 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191RwU-0006yo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:13:18 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030404150007.023cda28@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:13:13 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic In-Reply-To: <20030404133148.6014.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <004101c2faac$c2e212f0$773bd118@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:31 04/04/2003 +0100, you wrote: >The best way to go is make sure that you buy a Region 0 DVD. Most DVD players >nowadays play the region 0 ones, which are compatible with both the US and the >Europe system. Ours downstairs does, and that's the cheapish one, bought last >Christmas. That's true in Europe but not in the USA. European PAL runs at 25 frames per second (power frequency 50Hz), US TV's run at 29.97 fps (power frequency 60Hz) and if you try and get them to run at 25fps they don't like it and they keep loosing frame lock. On the other hand European TV's on the whole will handle frame rates from 24 to 30 fps, that's because the sets have to be multi-system to handle all the different formats in Europe (there are 3 different versions of PAL for instance), whereas the USA has the same all over. I hope that the above is understandable as I've tried to keep it simple. Lissa (who's an electronics engineer and dabbles in homemade DVD's) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 10:26:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34FQQMX022842 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:26:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34ELXKo006376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:21:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34ELWS5028933; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34ELUS5028919 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [212.227.126.224] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191S4Q-0000JB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:21:30 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191S4P-0007LC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:21:30 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030404151405.00a7d1d8@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:21:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic In-Reply-To: <070001c2fab1$1b017170$07634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> References: <20030404133306.2654.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:50 04/04/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Ah got it most UK players are multi regional & most US arn't so we can play >anything & the US can't How odd why don't they make them all the same it is >very dumb ! Errr! No! Lots of players available in Europe are multiregion but not all of them. Some American ones are multi-region as well but not many, mostly the Japanese and far eastern makes that are sold in the USA. However, the film companies are going bananas as it's undermining their control of the international markets. They don't like to release a film worldwide so they do so many months apart and so the DVD's and VHS tapes are also released in each region in step with the film releases. As a result a DVD is available in the USA some 6 months ahead of Europe. Some enterprising engineers in Europe found ways round the region limitations and started selling modification kits to turn a DVD player into a multiregion one. In the end the many manufacturers jumped on the band wagon and started selling multi-region machines. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 10:43:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34FhmMX022900 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:43:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EhsKo007847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:43:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EhrS5008616; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.kc.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EhoS5008595 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail2.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:43:50 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030404084633.00a0e0d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:48:28 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's new project In-Reply-To: References: <200304031900.h33J0gE6009342@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, The portraits are (suppoosed to be) in between the house & the ship. Here's a direct link to the large version of the portrait: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/uploads//jpg/BHC4251.jpg Sheryl Nance-Durst At 08:30 PM 4/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >When I try that site I don't get any photos of costumes or portraits, just a >house and a painting of a ship. > >Gail Finke > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 10:51:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34FpOMX022937 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:51:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EpGKo008488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:51:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EpFS5011736; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EpCS5011649 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:51:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-116-213.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.116.213]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABM33626; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:50:29 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <011f01c2fab9$eaea1ba0$c9774ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030404133306.2654.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20030404151405.00a7d1d8@pop.oneandone.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:53:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Errr! No! Lots of players available in Europe are multiregion but not all of them. That is why I used the word most :) Obviously all the ones I've ever got my hands on, but that goes for the Videos too >However, the film companies are going bananas as it's undermining their control of the international markets. Ah legalized thievery ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 10:56:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34Fu6MX022985 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:56:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EsBKo008804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34EsBS5013542; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34Es7S5013503 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:54:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.42] (pool181-89.patriot.net [209.249.181.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h34Es5Wk017988 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:54:06 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030404151405.00a7d1d8@pop.oneandone.co.uk> References: <20030404133306.2654.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20030404151405.00a7d1d8@pop.oneandone.co.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:53:36 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend in England has a DVD player that will play US DVDs. Unfortunately, his television (which is less than two years old) only plays the US DVDs in black & white. Apparently a newer TV will play them in color. So, does anyone have any favorite black & white movies to recommend? Particularly those with good costume content? :-) -Carol >Some enterprising engineers in Europe found ways round the region >limitations and started selling modification kits to turn a DVD >player into a multiregion one. In the end the many manufacturers >jumped on the band wagon and started selling multi-region machines. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 11:24:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34GO0MX023115 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34FNkKo011742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34FNeI5029453; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:23:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf62bis.bellsouth.net (mail148.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34FNbI5029400 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from sarah ([216.76.153.147]) by imf62bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20030404151717.HRJT13452.imf62bis.bellsouth.net@sarah> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:17:17 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:23:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <004101c2faac$c2e212f0$773bd118@duncan> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can you find a copy here? http://www.bbcamerica.com/shop/shop.jsp Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **La vita senz'onore e un viver morto.** -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of ailith Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:19 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Off Topic Greetings. I was wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US DVD players?? There's a DVD I'd like to get for my husband, but it's only available from the BBC. (I've got a friend stationed at Lakenheath who's willing to buy it and mail here for me). Thanks. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 11:24:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34GOIMX023118 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:24:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34FOHKo011826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:24:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34FOHI5029757; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:24:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h34FOEI5029690 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3Q4hANEwhUELepp9txJDCC/vGZD0lIi48g==">; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:23:11 EST Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HUXBFQAS; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:23:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:05:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Message-ID: <20030404.082919.-663297.7.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5-6,8-10,12-18,25-31 From: btana@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:30:51 +0100 The Duchess writes: > At 08:19 04/04/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >I was wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US DVD players?? > > No, the British DVD's are in PAL format and in America you use NTSC. If you > try to play them you will get a black and white picture that will keep > breaking up. There are places in the USA that will take your DVD and > convert it, but please don't ask me how much they charge as I don't have a clue. > > For anyone interested most European TV's and DVD players will handle > American DVD's. > > Lissa Yes, the same goes for video cassettes. British ones can't be played over here, but US ones can be played over there. Don't ask me why they can't get it together. Guess it's the manufacturers here that can't get together with them to make everything compatible. (I have a friend that wants to move to the states from England, and he'll have to buy all his videos again if he wants them, or bring all his equipment with him, one or the other.) Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde ICQ # 67785514 MSN btana_qul_mupwi Yahoo lady_btana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 12:12:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34HCBMX023485 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:12:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34GBxKo015761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34GBwYo026677; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:11:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34GBsYo026608 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-059-119.neo.rr.com [24.209.59.119]) by ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h34GBrPu012549 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:11:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c2fac4$e74862d0$773bd118@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:11:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Off Topic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Can you find a copy here? > > http://www.bbcamerica.com/shop/shop.jsp > Unfortunately, no. My sweetie *loves* Doctor Who; the DVD I was hoping to get for him for his birthday is a commemorative of the 40th anniversary of the Doctor. Darn it anyway! And a friend of mine was all excited because the BBC also has DVDs of Captain Scarlet, one of the marionette programs by Gerry Anderson. She's going to be so disappointed. Thank you all for the information, though. I do appreciate it. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 12:46:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34Hk7MX023606 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:46:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34GiXKo019178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:44:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34GiTYo017712; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:44:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:CetuUp/EeEIKI+zaxk+d3enmRjd1dZRp@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34GiLYo017647 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:44:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.198] (p38.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.198]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34GjL331087; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:45:21 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:42:58 -0700 From: sylvia To: H-costume , dyerslist , Costumers manifesto Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005a01c2fa7c$89ff8bf0$606019cb@robvcvrjnaw6c2> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] OT but funny X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In view of recent off-topic discussion and controversy, just thought I'd post this, as it is pretty funny and some of it sounds very familiar. Question: How many E Mail List Subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1,001 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed. 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 106 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 99 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to private email 113 to demand that cross posting to other mail lists about changing light bulbs be stopped. 101 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 156 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose a new "Lite Bulb Changing" Mail List. 47 to say this is just what the Mail List was meant for 123 votes for the new Mail List` Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT The list owner is the author of "Birth of an Angel" www.birthofanangel.com Community email addresses: Post message: 1wonderswhy@yahoogroups.com Subscribe: 1wonderswhy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe: 1wonderswhy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com List owner: 1wonderswhy-owner@yahoogroups.com Shortcut URL to 1wonderswhy home page: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/1wonderswhy Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 13:21:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34IKxMX023795 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:20:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34HKtKo023335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34HKrfe013900; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34HKmfe013846 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h34HKmjC027488 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) byid HCTXIO00.OBT for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:20:48 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:20:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic From: Agnes Gawne To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030404.082919.-663297.7.btana@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO for the US members of the list -- My husband recently purchased a new DVD player at our local GOOD video store (Scarecrow Video in Seattle). It plays all regions and converts PAL to NTSC on the fly so we now can watch any DVD from anywhere. I can't remember the brand name but if anyone hasn't purchased a DVD player yet or needs a new one you might consider looking into that option so you don't have any problem in the future. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 13:41:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34IfZMX023866 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:41:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34HfQKo025769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:41:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34HfPfe026989; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:41:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34HfMfe026953 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C927AA76 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 34384-05 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:40:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-172-61-81.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.172.61.81]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FD47AA6A for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:40:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:40:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030404133306.2654.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <8F1EA7D3-66C4-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You can, however, play both regions on most computers, if you have a DVD drive in your computer. On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 05:33 AM, N Kipar wrote: > --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >I was > wondering if anyone knows if British DVDs are compatable with US >> DVD players?? >> >> Should be no problem all should be compatible that is supposed to be >> the >> point of them :) > > No it isn't, sorry. There are different regions, region 2 is here and > region 1 > is US. The last couple years most DVD's are region 0. > > Nicole > > ===== > "Brains, not Bombs" > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 13:56:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34IusMX023935 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:56:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34Ht3Ks027523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:56:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34HkDfe000367; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h34Hjffe029722 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWhec5GxweOC4ndh8sKCsvlx+C1e7mMaC6Q==">; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:44:36 PST Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HUXKJNSW; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:44:36 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but funny Message-ID: <20030403.124610.-1813.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is too true to be funny. It is a keeper Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 14:26:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34JQoMX024133 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:26:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34IRAKo001295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34IR8Mp028437; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:27:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34IR3Mp028341 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-172.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.172]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABM73814; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:24:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <01bb01c2fad7$cbc20d00$c9774ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8F1EA7D3-66C4-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:27:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >You can, however, play both regions on most computers, if you have a DVD drive in your computer. That is why I have had no problems, you can hook a computer up to a TV too (at least here you can !!) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 15:04:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34K48MX024326 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34J3mKo004988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:03:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34J3jWw022704; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:03:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34J3gWw022656 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:03:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beaf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.175]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8608F5EE0FF for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:03:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00ab01c2fadd$0f7a39a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's new project Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:04:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Gail I hope you got the picture now, someone sended the URL for the big picture. I am leaving for England monday morning, and i will be at the Bath Ball next saturday. I have lots of memory cards for my digital camera, so i promise, the week before easter i shall upload pictures from the ball. I have everything ready for the ball, and i was allowed to bring the wardrobe bag with me into the airplane. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 3:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's new project > > When I try that site I don't get any photos of costumes or portraits, just a > house and a painting of a ship. > > Did you go to the ball yet, Bjarne? How was it? > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 15:23:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34KNPMX024415 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:23:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34JNHKo006929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34JNFWw005435; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80106.mail.yahoo.com (web80106.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h34JNCWw005398 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:23:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030404192312.78707.qmail@web80106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.174.86] by web80106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:23:12 PST Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:23:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304041333.h34DXOxi009488@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: Seeking UK re-enactors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marsha wrote: <> Considering that I spend much of my time crawling around under desks (our network connections are all in the floor of my classroom), running around the campus, and moving computers, I think I had better stick to wearing jeans, khakis, and tennis shoes to school. ;-) Dawn (toiling in the ditches of academia, with 1 set of papers left to grade) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 16:10:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34LAqMX024695 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34KAnKo011909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:10:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34KAkSm008760; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:10:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34KAgSm008716 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:10:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191XWK-0008SP-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:10:42 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 20:11:18 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: 'academic silks & laces' Re: [h-cost] Re: Seeking UK re-enactors References: <20030404071044.49248.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030404071044.49248.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >YES!!! How wonderful Marsha, let's all petition to bring back the academic >gown, preferrably in heavy black silks or velvets with jewel colour silk >linings, perhaps something like they wear in Hogwarth? Hmmm.... WANT! > >Nicole Hogwarth - Harry Potter as designed by Hogarth? I can see Alan Rickman now... -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 16:28:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34LSxMX024858 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34KSdKo013779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34KSaSm021447; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from providenceday.org (cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34KSXSm021416 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:28:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.154.67.195] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 150550 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:28:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:28:33 -0500 Subject: Re: 'academic silks & laces' Re: [h-cost] Re: Seeking UK re-enactors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <0164CD86-66DC-11D7-A65F-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well...my academic robes are hot and heavy, and that's before you add all the velvet bits. Since I live in the south, I REALLY don't want to have to teach in them year-round!! Jessamyn/Grace On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 02:11 PM, Jean Waddie wrote: >> >> YES!!! How wonderful Marsha, let's all petition to bring back the >> academic >> gown, preferrably in heavy black silks or velvets with jewel colour >> silk >> linings, perhaps something like they wear in Hogwarth? Hmmm.... WANT! >> >> Nicole > > Hogwarth - Harry Potter as designed by Hogarth? I can see Alan > Rickman now... > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 17:24:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34MOJMX025069 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:24:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34LNsKo019756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34LNqw8000902; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34LNmw8000847 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:23:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h34LNlfL028817 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:23:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.71] (as3-4-85.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.71]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34LN99r028066 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:23:44 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g> References: <4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com> <03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:30:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:16 PM -0600 4/3/03, Land of Oz wrote: > > website has a place to ask their question Ranger questions. I asked >there, >> about the specific bird I wanted, and got a prompt reply (anything with a >> legal hunting season, like a pheasant, is assumed to have been taken >> legally and is OK). > > >usually you can assume that any introduced species is also legal. For >instance it is illegal to possess migratory song birds (cardinals, finches, >etc) but non-native pest species (like starlings in the US) are okay. It >would be interesting to see a stuffed starling as part of a costume! Maybe >perched in a tall highly ornamented hat. I suppose there is a feather >covered accessory that could be done all in black for *some* one's period of >choice. :-) Starlings have a more ornamental plumage than you might think -- iridescent purple and green highlights. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 18:39:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34NdbMX025354 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:39:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34McxKo026783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34Mcwsu020791; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:38:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34Mctsu020709 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6B8A61200C6; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 17:27:04 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com> <03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:40:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of years ago I ordered from my feather supplier an extra full boa for my Merlin costume. The piece that came was stunning! I wondered at the time if it might be 'starling' for these reasons...black with lots of green and purple lights. It seemed at the time that it would have taken a LOT of rooster plumage of those colors. Kathleen ---- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Rose Jones" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling > At 10:16 PM -0600 4/3/03, Land of Oz wrote: > > > website has a place to ask their question Ranger questions. I asked > >there, > >> about the specific bird I wanted, and got a prompt reply (anything with a > >> legal hunting season, like a pheasant, is assumed to have been taken > >> legally and is OK). > > > > > >usually you can assume that any introduced species is also legal. For > >instance it is illegal to possess migratory song birds (cardinals, finches, > >etc) but non-native pest species (like starlings in the US) are okay. It > >would be interesting to see a stuffed starling as part of a costume! Maybe > >perched in a tall highly ornamented hat. I suppose there is a feather > >covered accessory that could be done all in black for *some* one's period of > >choice. :-) > > Starlings have a more ornamental plumage than you might think -- > iridescent purple and green highlights. > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 18:54:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34NsMMX025399 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:54:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34MsQKo028231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34MsPsu001294; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:54:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h34Ms9su001074 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:54:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 719 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2003 22:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2003 22:54:08 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:54:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:54:08 -0800 (PST) From: To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Fun question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello everyone! I am coming back to this list after a long absence and it is great to join you all again! And I thought of a fun question for everyone to spark some discussion: If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would it have? For me, I would want great textured fabrics, all kinds of silk, lovely striped fabrics for a Victorian day dress, corset supplies (so I wouldn't have to mail order), hoop skirts, fashion & art books, and nice quality trims (including silk ribbon and cotton grosgrain) Cheers, Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 19:39:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h350deMX025564 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:39:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34NdiKo002717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:39:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34NddRN000285; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34NdaRN000191 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:39:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h34NmL4m019342 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:48:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3E8E179A.7030403@misc.com> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:39:06 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question References: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OOOOh, good question!!! Well, everything Diana said.... plus, if the fabrics/trims/etc. could be arranged for easy price/color comparison, ie., a section of, say, green taffetas all grouped together from most expensive(silk maybe) to least expensive (acetate) so you wouldn't have to truck all over the store, gathering up several bolts. As a matter of fact, maybe the whole fabric area could be organized by color instead of by fiber, in a big circle, so one could stand in the middle and scan the offerings. (An aside here, I always felt square buildings were inefficient and unnatural; better shapes for buildings might be circular, no corners for dust bunnies to congregate in). Another plus in such a store, a space with natural light coming in from an overhead so one wouldn't have to haul all those bolts of fabric to the doorway to see the true color!!! And trims definitely need to be in a bright area. Accessories: elements for fan construction, bag/purse/pouch making, hat parts, the proper specific glues. Well, this was fun. I apologize for the length, I got carried away..... Theresa EAcker dch@inreach.com wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I am coming back to this list after a long absence and it is great to join > you all again! > > And I thought of a fun question for everyone to spark some discussion: > > If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would > it have? > > For me, I would want great textured fabrics, all kinds of silk, lovely > striped fabrics for a Victorian day dress, corset supplies (so I wouldn't > have to mail order), hoop skirts, fashion & art books, and nice quality > trims (including silk ribbon and cotton grosgrain) > > Cheers, > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 20:56:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h351u6MX025800 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 20:56:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h350uEKo008621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:56:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h350uBYo008599; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h350u7Yo008552 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from p21-nas1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.210.21] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 191byW-0005OV-00; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:56:05 +1200 Message-ID: <005b01c2fb0e$1fe17b60$15d2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030404142742.023cda28@pop.oneandone.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:55:58 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > No, the British DVD's are in PAL format and in America you use NTSC. If you > try to play them you will get a black and white picture that will keep > breaking up. There are places in the USA that will take your DVD and > convert it, but please don't ask me how much they charge as I don't have a > clue. Really? So it's the same with videos... I mean.. it just seems so bizarre that such different technology repeats the old... how the heck does that work? Sorry, just musing... I'm so used to just hearing about regions. I also know that different regions can also have different content:) > >You can, however, play both regions on most computers, if you > have a DVD drive in your computer. Nope, same situcation as dvd players for the tv. As in some will allow you to to play multi regional but mine will only allow 4 changes. That's not 4 regions, more like 1, 2, 1, 2 and from then on it will only play 2. Unless I do a system restore on my comp and reinstall everything;) So far I've used my dvd on my comp for watching Moulin Rouge, Dracula and some Anime.. and take *lots* of screen caps of MR:) Extremely excellent for seeing costume detail. I'm thinking of renting a few dvds. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 21:27:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h352RKMX025863 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:27:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h351RVKo010675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h351RUYo022428; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h351RQYo022395 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:27:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-012-191.jps.net ([216.119.12.191] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 191cSr-00021N-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 17:27:26 -0800 Message-ID: <002701c2fb14$1d5c4860$bf0c77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030403.124610.-1813.0.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but funny Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:38:50 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO uhhhh........."101 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list." .........I guess I would fit into this catagory!!! :) Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but funny > That is too true to be funny. It is a keeper > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 4 22:24:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h353OfMX026021 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h352OWKo014250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h352OQGF016258; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:24:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h352OMGF016177 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:24:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h352OFF10930 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:24:16 +1000 Message-ID: <012501c2fb1a$b29c1490$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030404142742.023cda28@pop.oneandone.co.uk> <005b01c2fb0e$1fe17b60$15d2adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:25:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > No, the British DVD's are in PAL format and in America you use NTSC. If > you > > try to play them you will get a black and white picture that will keep > > breaking up. There are places in the USA that will take your DVD and > > convert it, but please don't ask me how much they charge as I don't have a > > clue. > > Really? So it's the same with videos... I mean.. it just seems so bizarre > that such different technology repeats the old... how the heck does that > work? Sorry, just musing... I'm so used to just hearing about regions. > > I also know that different regions can also have different content:) > > > >You can, however, play both regions on most computers, if you > > have a DVD drive in your computer. > > Nope, same situcation as dvd players for the tv. As in some will allow you > to to play multi regional but mine will only allow 4 changes. That's not 4 > regions, more like 1, 2, 1, 2 and from then on it will only play 2. As with all things it's really dependant on the equipment you have. Multi - region/format VCRs and DVD players *are* available in the USA but are not particularly common. I've just been having a similar discussion on another list about trying to view some video copies of the old Wild Wild West TV series. Equipment that plays multiformat is more common in countries that use PAL because it's easier to get a system to read a "slower" format that for equipment to read a faster one. Certainly in Australia, New Zealand and Europe multiformat technology is cheap enough for the home user to be able to afford it. As for DVD drives on your computer the drive itself will pretty much read anything. It's what sort of software it comes with and what exclusions have been programmed into it. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 03:17:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h358HNMX007054 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 03:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h357HRKo027926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 00:17:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h357HMWj000102; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 00:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h357HKWj029994 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 00:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.127.136]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCV0091P06M7I@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 23:16:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 23:15:49 -0800 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question In-reply-to: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.c om> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030404231156.00dd4bc0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am coming back to this list after a long absence and it is great to join >you all again! > >And I thought of a fun question for everyone to spark some discussion: > >If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would >it have? I'd add a big flat-fold section, as I usually have the most fun in that department. I'd put interesting drapery and upholstery remnants in it, cheap velvet, brocade, and wool remnants, natural fibre remnants, misprinted ugly calico (for making muslins, and some that's so misprinted it's good for fibre art stuff), and last year's fabric we didn't know we needed more of till this year. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 05:04:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35A4hMX025301 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:04:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3594qKo002346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:04:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3594pDO005582; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3594mDO005569 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:04:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9e.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.158]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3156947FF20 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:04:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001b01c2fb52$9c36c3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:06:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Yes all the fabrics, wich you dont get anymore, and the shop should have a large range of silk embroidery threads, and metal threads, spangels and the like. If such a store excisted here in Copenhagen, i would be a poor man. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 12:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Fun question > Hello everyone! > > I am coming back to this list after a long absence and it is great to join > you all again! > > And I thought of a fun question for everyone to spark some discussion: > > If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would > it have? > > For me, I would want great textured fabrics, all kinds of silk, lovely > striped fabrics for a Victorian day dress, corset supplies (so I wouldn't > have to mail order), hoop skirts, fashion & art books, and nice quality > trims (including silk ribbon and cotton grosgrain) > > Cheers, > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 06:34:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35BYJMX010172 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 06:34:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35AYPKo005775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 03:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35AYLcT029119; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 03:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35AYIcT029083 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 03:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.99.96.216]) by lakemtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030405103413.HERY8337.lakemtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:34:13 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Off Topic Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:56:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c2fb1f$08e5a1a0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <012501c2fb1a$b29c1490$18a231d2@valadan> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We play DVD's in the PlayStation. Anyone know how 'compatible' that is with other formats? Thanks for such an interesting thread, I have to admit that this is something that I had never thought too much about. I knew tapes were specific, but I thought a disk was a disk was a disk. Thanks for saving me some money! Pax, :Linda: -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Baralier As with all things it's really dependant on the equipment you have. Multi - region/format VCRs and DVD players *are* available in the USA but are not particularly common. I've just been having a similar discussion on another list about trying to view some video copies of the old Wild Wild West TV series. Equipment that plays multiformat is more common in countries that use PAL because it's easier to get a system to read a "slower" format that for equipment to read a faster one. Certainly in Australia, New Zealand and Europe multiformat technology is cheap enough for the home user to be able to afford it. As for DVD drives on your computer the drive itself will pretty much read anything. It's what sort of software it comes with and what exclusions have been programmed into it. Paul _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 07:56:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35CueMX010365 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:56:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35BrIKo008962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 04:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35BrHnE026342; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 04:53:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35BrDnE026325 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 04:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.167]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C55455EE405 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:53:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c2fb6a$228e6e20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:54:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Someone said, that there is a collar behind the standing lace collar. Would this be a standing collar attached to the bodice? Would this collar have bones in it, to make it stand? It is something i never thoaght about before. There is another danish portrait, where there is a shadow behind the lace, this might be the same then. That lace i baught from England, recently, (the copyed Elizabethan Reticella lace would come in handy for this projekt.) I wondered if i could make those beautifull corners of the collar, i guess i can if i try. Looking at this collar makes me wonder if the lacemakers made those corners. It looks really like it has not ben altered like other laces ( i think about the falling bands in 17th century, they are manipulated) Oh i wish i could express myself as wonderfull as you other english languaged guys, sometimes it is hard to be one of the few non english languaged people. Oh my god, we have the most terrible stormy weather right now. The weather is bright sunshine, but very hard winds from the north, i think winter comes again! What are you all doing, it is so quiet today!!!! Bjarne from Copenhagen Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 08:08:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35D8sMX010403 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:08:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35C92Ko009638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35C911P000949; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35C8w1P000930 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17797 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2003 12:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO homeec) ([170.215.205.85]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 5 Apr 2003 12:08:57 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c2fb6c$2d755860$02fea8c0@homeec> From: "Rowena" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c2fb6a$228e6e20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:09:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What are you all doing, it is so quiet today!!!! Looking at more snow, and a LOT of ice from the snow, ice, and freezing rain we had all day yesterday. With more tomorrow. Barely north of here, they had almost all snow, so they have had about a foot and a half in 2 days, and are looking at at least another foot forecast for today. The only reason I'm not shovelling is because I am in a river valley, so we got wetter stuff. So I reformatted my computer, and reinstalled everything. And I worked on making that Russian costume for my favorite little kindergartener, who is (as always) very particular in her colors and design. (Thanks to EVERYONE who gave me sites and suggestions!!!) I am very thankful for machines that run those nice geometric, embroidery like stitches up and down the sleeves and the dress. Some, embroidery, some trim, on bright yellow fabric..... Today, I can't put off my taxes anymore, since I am going to a wedding in Pittsburgh next weekend. And I really, really don't want to do this very complicated thing, even with the help of a tax program. I amy yet take it to a tax service, although I hate to cry defeat by paperwork! Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 08:11:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35DBTMX010410 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:11:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35CBjKo009732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:11:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35CBi1P001571; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:11:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35CBg1P001553 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4815 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2003 12:11:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO homeec) ([170.215.205.85]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 5 Apr 2003 12:11:41 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c2fb6c$8f6c89d0$02fea8c0@homeec> From: "Rowena" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3E88621B.1000100@comcast.net> <002301c2f7f5$2a8f7c90$773bd118@jamie> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:11:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] A good friend forwarded me this about friends X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A Friend is Like A Good Bra... Hard to Find Supportive Comfortable Uplifting And Always Close To Our Heart!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 09:40:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35EeBMX010600 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:40:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35DeMKo012761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 06:40:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35DeJgw025787; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 06:40:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com [66.96.128.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h35DeGgw025705 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 06:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9664 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2003 13:33:58 -0000 Received: from dialup-209.245.15.107.dial1.denver1.level3.net (HELO costumepress.com) (209.245.15.107) by -H with SMTP; 5 Apr 2003 13:33:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3E8EDCB7.C393E265@costumepress.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:40:09 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Winter again - OK, get out the maps! References: <000f01c2fb6a$228e6e20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001101c2fb6c$2d755860$02fea8c0@homeec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here in Colorado Springs we got an inch of snow overnight. I haven't heard a forecast for today beyond "wet, dreary and cold". A good day to stay inside and organize the sewing area! I bought some navy blue almost gauze yesterday. It looks like a misprint, as you can see the faintest shadows of some flowers. I hope they show up a bit in the sunshine. It's for a summer overdress (@1600), with a row of narrow needle lace around the neckline. I also got some 1/2 yard cuts of misc stuff off the flat fold remnant (is that redundant?) table for making cushion covers. MD/Marged _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 10:13:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35FDEMX010817 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:13:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35EDQKo014077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:13:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35EDPrr006160; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35EDMrr006099 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1c3.7b3bd3c (4246) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:13:14 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c3.7b3bd3c.2bc03e7a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:13:14 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/5/2003 6:54:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > Someone said, that there is a collar behind the standing lace collar. Would > this be a standing collar attached to the bodice? > Would this collar have bones in it, to make it stand? > It might be a blue "supportass" [did I spell that right?]. There is a real one somewhere...the V&A? Isn't it in Janet Arnold? Anyway I've seen it in a photo somewhere attached to a Ropa, which has a high neck. The wide scoop neck of the gown would require a rethinking of this. I don't know if a supportass for a gown still exists. Anyone? It is very stiff but I don't think it was boned. Instead, it's made of stiff heavy paper or leather or something and covered with silk. This doesn't mean it could not be boned with baleen or reeds or something. Doesn't QEI have those big heart shaped collars wired up with gold wire? As far as the lace goes..... isn't this the beginning of a period where lace making reaches a pinnacle? There are shaped collars with matching cuffs made with the finest of skill. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 10:33:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35FXeMX010878 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:33:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35EXtKo014818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35EXsrr012274; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp02.fuse.net (mx4.fuse.net [216.68.1.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35EXorr012254 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:33:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from netzero.netzero.net ([66.117.222.145]) by smtp02.fuse.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030405143348.MBOX21745.smtp02.fuse.net@netzero.netzero.net> for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:33:48 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030405090116.00ae8450@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: zofiahborek@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:05:29 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Lady Zofia Borek Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question In-Reply-To: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.c om> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would >it have? Natural fabrics, trims and threads. Also books on historical clothing, fashion and pattern drafting. Weekly classes on a variety of modern and period sewing techniques. And... and...and... Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 10:49:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35FnWMX010917 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:49:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35EnkKo015431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Enjrr017311; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Enhrr017282 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.182] (pm5-182.eos.net [205.133.149.182]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23563 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:49:09 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:45:40 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304051209.h35C9A1Q000995@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My father insists that videos and DVDs have different content in different areas of the country (the USA). Now, I know that European and American releases of movies are sometimes different. "Pretty Woman" is supposed to have a different ending in Europe, and "The Highlander" European edition has a few different scenes. But I don't see how anyone could change the content of a film in general distribution, with different scenes in California and, say, New York. Does anyone know if this is true? On the other hand, we would all go broke hunting down and buying different versions of our favorite costume films! I can just imagine the reaction on this list of, say, the American version of a costume film had a different view of a popular costume than the European film! And if that should happen to be true, we'd better start comparing notes! Gail Finke PS: I wish that DVDs would come with rated G or PG versions of movies. I bet a lot of parents would buy them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 11:11:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35GBGMX011050 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:11:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FBTKo016623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FBR3l024957; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h35FBO3l024848 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:11:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030405151119.86675.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 16:11:19 BST Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:11:19 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1c3.7b3bd3c.2bc03e7a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > It might be a blue "supportass" [did I spell that right?]. There is a real > one somewhere...the V&A? Isn't it in Janet Arnold? Anyway I've seen it in a > photo somewhere attached to a Ropa, which has a high neck. The wide scoop > neck of the gown would require a rethinking of this. I don't know if a > supportass for a gown still exists. Anyone? Yes, it exists, it is in the V&A but unfortunately not on display anymore (as far as I remmeber, will be back in London in the V&A - hehehe, paid by work, coz I have a falh-day conference in Kensington) on the 16th, will check. I uploaded two photos - none of them are mine, I don't claim copyright) of the V&A supportasse: http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/ Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 11:12:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35GCnMX011056 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:12:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FD3Ko016804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FD33l026093; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FCM3l025723 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h35FCJfL023433 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.216] (tnt-1-24.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.216]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FC99p023339; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:12:17 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> References: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:19:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume , From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:54 PM -0800 4/4/03, wrote: >If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would >it have? The _perfect_ fabric store would have a "weave-on-demand" computerized loom where you could specify the materials, colors, weave type, maybe scan in a motif-repeat, and it would weave you whatever you wanted on the spot ... oh, and the _perfect_ store would be able to do at reasonable prices, too! Hey, it's my fantasy, darn it! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 11:12:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35GCrMX011060 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:12:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FD8Ko016825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FD83l026125; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FCM3l025730 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h35FCJfN023433 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.216] (tnt-1-24.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.216]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FC99p023339; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:12:17 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> References: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:19:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume , From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:54 PM -0800 4/4/03, wrote: >If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would >it have? The _perfect_ fabric store would have a "weave-on-demand" computerized loom where you could specify the materials, colors, weave type, maybe scan in a motif-repeat, and it would weave you whatever you wanted on the spot ... oh, and the _perfect_ store would be able to do at reasonable prices, too! Hey, it's my fantasy, darn it! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 11:23:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35GNrMX011094 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:23:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FO8Ko017297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FO63l029665; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:24:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FO33l029612 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.116.214d2dd6 (4222) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:23:50 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <116.214d2dd6.2bc04f06@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:23:50 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/5/2003 9:50:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > PS: I wish that DVDs would come with rated G or PG versions of movies. I bet > a lot of parents would buy them. > Yeah....like the Zeffirelli version of "Hamlet" with an alternate ending....he marries Ophelia and Claudius really WAS framed...... Or maybe "A Clockwork Orange" where Alex just makes bad grades at school. Gail! What are you advocating? Censorship??? I'm shocked....SHOCKED I tell you! :-O Seriously, I just wish they'd put "Little Dorrit" on DVD. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 11:27:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35GRcMX011102 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:27:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FP4Lo017361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:27:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FCt3l026017; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:12:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FCJ3l025671 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:12:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h35FCFfL023408 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.216] (tnt-1-24.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.216]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FC99n023339 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:12:13 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras> References: <4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com> <03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g> <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:16:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 5:40 PM -0500 4/4/03, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > From: "Heather Rose Jones" > > At 10:16 PM -0600 4/3/03, Land of Oz wrote: >> > > website has a place to ask their question Ranger questions. I asked >> >there, >> >> about the specific bird I wanted, and got a prompt reply (anything >with a >> >> legal hunting season, like a pheasant, is assumed to have been taken >> >> legally and is OK). >> > >> > >> >usually you can assume that any introduced species is also legal. For >> >instance it is illegal to possess migratory song birds (cardinals, >finches, >> >etc) but non-native pest species (like starlings in the US) are okay. It >> >would be interesting to see a stuffed starling as part of a costume! >Maybe >> >perched in a tall highly ornamented hat. I suppose there is a feather >> >covered accessory that could be done all in black for *some* one's period >of >> >choice. :-) >> >> Starlings have a more ornamental plumage than you might think -- > > iridescent purple and green highlights. >A couple of years ago I ordered from my feather supplier an extra full boa >for my Merlin costume. The piece that came was stunning! I wondered at the >time if it might be 'starling' for these reasons...black with lots of green >and purple lights. It seemed at the time that it would have taken a LOT of >rooster plumage of those colors. Not likely to be starlings for a feather boa unless it was for a Barbie doll. :) They're tiny little things. You're probably right that it was rooster plumage, given those colors. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 11:45:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35Gj7MX011147 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:45:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FjJKo018353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FjI3l007321; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35FjF3l007252 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.99.96.216]) by lakemtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030405154510.JXQO8337.lakemtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:45:10 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 03:07:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c2fb4a$7904e1f0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <116.214d2dd6.2bc04f06@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, I heard on the news last week that there is a company that takes regular movies and re-edits them to remove the violence, sex, etc and then sells the finished product as suitable for all ages. IIRC they have at least the knowledge if not the approval of the movie companies to do this. The story said that some movies can't be done, because once all the sex and violence are removed there is not enough left to hold a movie together! Linda -----Original Message----- [h-cost] Re: OT, movies gailscott@eos.net writes: > PS: I wish that DVDs would come with rated G or PG versions of movies. I bet > a lot of parents would buy them. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 12:31:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35HV3MX011352 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:31:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GVDKo020853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:31:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GVC4I024120; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GV94I024099 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:31:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-16-152.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.152] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 191qZQ-0000MP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:31:08 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c2fb92$5d2ca880$981077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c2fb4a$7904e1f0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:42:33 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A video store in Utah has been doing that for years for their conservative clientele. "Who", the sister magazine of "People" in Australia ran an article of what the movies theoretically would end up like after the editing. Can't remember them all, but "The Full Monty" was a story about some unemployed English factory workers that stayed unemployed etc.... Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 12:07 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies > Actually, I heard on the news last week that there is a company that > takes regular movies and re-edits them to remove the violence, sex, etc > and then sells the finished product as suitable for all ages. IIRC they > have at least the knowledge if not the approval of the movie companies > to do this. The story said that some movies can't be done, because once > all the sex and violence are removed there is not enough left to hold a > movie together! > > Linda > > > -----Original Message----- > [h-cost] Re: OT, movies > > gailscott@eos.net writes: > > > PS: I wish that DVDs would come with rated G or PG versions of movies. > I bet > > a lot of parents would buy them. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 12:43:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35HhfMX011404 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:43:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GhoKo021690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:43:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Ghn4I029291; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:43:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe17.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Ghk4I029243 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:43:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:43:40 -0800 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by OE17.law8.internal.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 16:43:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c2fb6a$228e6e20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Language and weather was: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:44:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2003 16:43:40.0938 (UTC) FILETIME=[8379A6A0:01C2FB92] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Oh i wish i could express myself as wonderfull as you other english > languaged guys, sometimes it is hard to be one of the few non english > languaged people. I think there are a lot more non English speakers than we might think. I'm a native French speaker, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I have to admit though, studying in English and living in a totally bilingual city helped a lot :-) > Oh my god, we have the most terrible stormy weather right now. The weather > is bright sunshine, but very hard winds from the north, i think winter comes > again! Snow, snow, snow, it started during the night and is supposed to last all day. I can remember going around in sandals and a mini skirt around this time a few years ago. Of course, it was pretty unusual at the time, and so is today's weather. But thinking that this week it barely went over freezing point is a little discouraging, especially after the few weeks of warm weather we had recently. What I'm doing? Well, now that I'm finally connected to the Internet again (modem died, it took 4 days for customer service to show up because the guys at central don't understand the meaning of "I won't be there on Thursday"), I have about 500 messages to read :-) Then I'll be working on my end of term assignments, and when I need a break, I'll finish cutting a smock for my first Elizabethan. Better to do it before my mother comes back from vacation to find all this fabric lying on the floor! (the only flat space big enough to lay out anything bigger than a skirt). A quiet and pleasant day! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 12:56:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35HujMX011470 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:56:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GuuKo022765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GutWv005746; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GusWv005734 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 191qyL-0003Ve-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:56:53 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:56:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c2fb94$5bbdeb60$6401a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030405151119.86675.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [h-cost] RE: supportasse photos X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very cool pictures-thank you Nicole. I have to run somewhere, but I have a photo of an actual wired supportasse in a book. I think you have found the closer item but it might be interesting just to chat about. I will put it up when I get home. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 12:57:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35HvEMX011475 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:57:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Gt4LW022597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:57:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Gmv4I001867; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35GmQ4I001512 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:48:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-110-3.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.110.3]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ABN27297; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:21:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001201c2fb8f$c8f21a80$036e4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:24:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Pretty Woman" is supposed to have a different ending in Europe, There were I believe 2 endings filmed. In one his is too late in the other they live happily ever after Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 13:22:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35IM1MX011523 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:22:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HMFKo023930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:22:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HMEWv014420; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:22:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80105.mail.yahoo.com (web80105.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h35HMBWv014400 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:22:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030405172211.52876.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.174.86] by web80105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:22:11 PST Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:22:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304051209.h35C9A1Q000995@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fun question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The perfect store: A cross between: Stone Mountain & Daughter Dharma Trading Company AlterYears Lacis Skein Lane (a yarn shop) Needle in a Haystack with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much shopping is hard work! 8-) Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 13:33:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35IXoMX011565 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:33:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HY1Ko024723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HY0Wv019178; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f100.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HXvWv019141 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:33:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:33:52 -0800 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:33:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:33:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2003 17:33:52.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[8635DC40:01C2FB99] Subject: [h-cost] Russian Costume... Was: Queen Anne Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rowena, Won't you please, please, please show us a picture of the little Russian costume once you've completed it? We would all love to see how it has turned out. :) jessica p.s. Today I am working on my first toile for my new Draping Class. I am sewing in the darts, sewing the basic bodice to the basic straight skirt and then going to sew bias tape onto all the edges. I also need to go find a cotton weave fabric to use for my future projects and buy bias tape. Then I need to do a bunch of Laundry, go to Ikea and get a new duvet cover (or else fid some really big, cheap fabric at the store and make one) and then pay my bills and then do taxes. That's a pretty full day! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 13:57:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35IvcMX011632 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:57:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HvkKo025973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:57:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HviXI028288; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35HvUXI028162 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:57:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCV009XOTVRPB@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:57:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:54:04 -0800 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all After finishing a costume for a client, I can finally do something for myself. I have a Ren Faire at the end of April, where I will be joining a nobles group for Elizabeth's court. Having just had a baby, I don't want to wear a corset so I am about to embark on my first Spanish style surcoat, similar to one in Janet Arnold's Pattens of Fashion; the one with the appliques down the front, but with a fuller pleated back. I wanted to make it out of a fine suit wool I have, with the appliques in either black satin or velvet. However, a friend commented that nobles would not be wearing wool garments, but it should be in a velvet with satin appliques. I was wondering if I can go ahead with the wool, or try to find enough velvet (I prefer cotton velveteen) to make the surcoat with. I wanted the wool because 1. I already have it. 2. It was clearance wool (but 100% wool). 3. Cotton velveteen rubs off in the back area, and I didn't want that happening with my surcoat. I plan on lining the garment in a light cotton (maybe silk if I can find something relatively inexpensive). I was also wondering if there are any tricks or problem areas I should be aware of in making the surcoat? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 14:07:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35J7LMX011670 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:07:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35I7VKo026496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:07:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35I7UXI002160; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:07:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35I7SXI002133 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:07:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp03-226.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.122.226]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5205219FE7A for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:07:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3E8F1BB3.2060302@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 20:08:51 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am making mine from wool. But I don't know if this is apropriate for nobels. Maby my website can be of little help. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Projects/Loosegown.html Witin two weeks I wil have time to work on my gown again :-) :-) . Greetings, Deredere Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi all > > After finishing a costume for a client, I can finally do something for > myself. I have a Ren Faire at the end of April, where I will be > joining a nobles group for Elizabeth's court. Having just had a baby, > I don't want to wear a corset so I am about to embark on my first > Spanish style surcoat, similar to one in Janet Arnold's Pattens of > Fashion; the one with the appliques down the front, but with a fuller > pleated back. > > I wanted to make it out of a fine suit wool I have, with the appliques > in either black satin or velvet. However, a friend commented that > nobles would not be wearing wool garments, but it should be in a > velvet with satin appliques. > > I was wondering if I can go ahead with the wool, or try to find enough > velvet (I prefer cotton velveteen) to make the surcoat with. I wanted > the wool because 1. I already have it. 2. It was clearance wool (but > 100% wool). 3. Cotton velveteen rubs off in the back area, and I > didn't want > that happening with my surcoat. I plan on lining the garment in a > light cotton (maybe silk if I can find something relatively inexpensive). > > I was also wondering if there are any tricks or problem areas I should > be aware of in making the surcoat? Any suggestions would be greatly > appreciated. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 14:21:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35JLvMX011730 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:21:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IMAKo027051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IM9XI007179; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f94.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IM5XI007121 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:21:59 -0800 Received: from 151.199.133.177 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:21:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.133.177] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:21:59 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2003 18:21:59.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F5E50C0:01C2FBA0] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Everybody wears wool---it's one of the biggest exports England has. Think about your own wardrobe: you probably have some really dressy clothes (velvet), but most of your clothes aren't dressy (wool). Or maybe you have some incredibly beautiful, finely woven wool that you want to use as a "best" dress. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Kimiko Small >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:54:04 -0800 > >Hi all > >After finishing a costume for a client, I can finally do something for >myself. I have a Ren Faire at the end of April, where I will be joining a >nobles group for Elizabeth's court. Having just had a baby, I don't want to >wear a corset so I am about to embark on my first Spanish style surcoat, >similar to one in Janet Arnold's Pattens of Fashion; the one with the >appliques down the front, but with a fuller pleated back. > >I wanted to make it out of a fine suit wool I have, with the appliques in >either black satin or velvet. However, a friend commented that nobles would >not be wearing wool garments, but it should be in a velvet with satin >appliques. > >I was wondering if I can go ahead with the wool, or try to find enough >velvet (I prefer cotton velveteen) to make the surcoat with. I wanted the >wool because 1. I already have it. 2. It was clearance wool (but 100% >wool). 3. Cotton velveteen rubs off in the back area, and I didn't want >that happening with my surcoat. I plan on lining the garment in a light >cotton (maybe silk if I can find something relatively inexpensive). > >I was also wondering if there are any tricks or problem areas I should be >aware of in making the surcoat? Any suggestions would be greatly >appreciated. > >Kimiko > > >Kimiko Small >Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > >Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 14:25:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35JPfMX011743 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:25:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IPsKo027242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IPsXI008682; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IPnXI008661 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D5C7A76F for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 55864-06 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-249.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.249]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1693E7A5E3 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:25:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:25:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <116.214d2dd6.2bc04f06@aol.com> Message-Id: <01056B54-6794-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are companies already doing this, and they are currently getting sued by the studios. Also, Blockbuster video has essentially forced studios to produce lower rated versions of their movies (or they won't carry them in ANY store) and I believe there's a lawsuit over that, as well. On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 07:23 AM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/5/2003 9:50:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, > gailscott@eos.net writes: > > >> PS: I wish that DVDs would come with rated G or PG versions of >> movies. I bet >> a lot of parents would buy them. >> > > Yeah....like the Zeffirelli version of "Hamlet" with an alternate > ending....he marries Ophelia and Claudius really WAS framed...... > Or maybe "A Clockwork Orange" where Alex just makes bad grades at > school. > > Gail! What are you advocating? Censorship??? > > I'm shocked....SHOCKED I tell you! :-O > > Seriously, I just wish they'd put "Little Dorrit" on DVD. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 14:29:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35JT9MX011752 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:29:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35ITJKo027412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:29:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35ITIXI010069; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:29:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35ITEXI010027 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6567A5E3 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 55966-03 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-249.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.249]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0917E7AA17 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:28:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:29:03 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7A4AE557-6794-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO actually, a lot of people don't wear wool, or only have a sweater or two out of it. Most people I know stick to cottons for everyday wear - I have to search long and hard to find good wool clothes casual enough for everyday. On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 10:21 AM, Nancy Kiel wrote: > Everybody wears wool---it's one of the biggest exports England has. > Think about your own wardrobe: you probably have some really dressy > clothes (velvet), but most of your clothes aren't dressy (wool). Or > maybe you have some incredibly beautiful, finely woven wool that you > want to use as a "best" dress. > > > > Nancy Kiel > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > Never tease a weasel! > This is very good advice. > For the weasel will not like it > And teasing isn't nice. > > > > > >> From: Kimiko Small >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Subject: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric >> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:54:04 -0800 >> >> Hi all >> >> After finishing a costume for a client, I can finally do something >> for myself. I have a Ren Faire at the end of April, where I will be >> joining a nobles group for Elizabeth's court. Having just had a baby, >> I don't want to wear a corset so I am about to embark on my first >> Spanish style surcoat, similar to one in Janet Arnold's Pattens of >> Fashion; the one with the appliques down the front, but with a fuller >> pleated back. >> >> I wanted to make it out of a fine suit wool I have, with the >> appliques in either black satin or velvet. However, a friend >> commented that nobles would not be wearing wool garments, but it >> should be in a velvet with satin appliques. >> >> I was wondering if I can go ahead with the wool, or try to find >> enough velvet (I prefer cotton velveteen) to make the surcoat with. I >> wanted the wool because 1. I already have it. 2. It was clearance >> wool (but 100% wool). 3. Cotton velveteen rubs off in the back area, >> and I didn't want >> that happening with my surcoat. I plan on lining the garment in a >> light cotton (maybe silk if I can find something relatively >> inexpensive). >> >> I was also wondering if there are any tricks or problem areas I >> should be aware of in making the surcoat? Any suggestions would be >> greatly appreciated. >> >> Kimiko >> >> >> Kimiko Small >> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com >> >> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >> http://www.costumegallery.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 14:56:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35JunMX011850 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:56:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IsHKo028743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:54:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IsGXI019696; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f50.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35IsDXI019615 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:54:08 -0800 Received: from 151.199.133.177 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:54:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.133.177] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:54:07 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2003 18:54:08.0198 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCE2BE60:01C2FBA4] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO orry, I was referring to Elizabethan clothing. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Heather Meadows >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:29:03 -0800 > >actually, a lot of people don't wear wool, or only have a sweater or >two out of it. Most people I know stick to cottons for everyday wear - >I have to search long and hard to find good wool clothes casual enough >for everyday. > > >On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 10:21 AM, Nancy Kiel wrote: > >>Everybody wears wool---it's one of the biggest exports England has. Think >>about your own wardrobe: you probably have some really dressy clothes >>(velvet), but most of your clothes aren't dressy (wool). Or maybe you >>have some incredibly beautiful, finely woven wool that you want to use as >>a "best" dress. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 15:52:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35KqBMX012022 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:52:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35JimKo001559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:44:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Jik5G006931; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:44:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Jig5G006901 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:44:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4985047FF5E for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:44:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000b01c2fbac$075e9160$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030405151119.86675.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:46:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Come on! My question was if there were a collar in behind of the lace colar. You say yes, it is a supportasse. And i say OK! I have lots of pictures of suppportasses, so dont worry. Well This night, saturday night i dressed up for my husband Leif, for the Bath Ball!!! I tell you!!!!!!!!!! I will be so incredible incredible beautifull to look at!!!!!!!!!!! With beautifull make-up and tight breeches and 3 rolls each ear and a large tail behind. You should see my stock kravat buckle soooooooo beautifull, but i tell you, only the close people gets to see it My pose is sooooooooooo sooooooooooo beautifull and you have never seen anything like it I nearly faint............. but Leif is impressed at last!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 5:11 PM Subject: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress > --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > It might be a blue "supportass" [did I spell that right?]. There is a real > > one somewhere...the V&A? Isn't it in Janet Arnold? Anyway I've seen it in a > > photo somewhere attached to a Ropa, which has a high neck. The wide scoop > > neck of the gown would require a rethinking of this. I don't know if a > > supportass for a gown still exists. Anyone? > > Yes, it exists, it is in the V&A but unfortunately not on display anymore (as > far as I remmeber, will be back in London in the V&A - hehehe, paid by work, > coz I have a falh-day conference in Kensington) on the 16th, will check. I > uploaded two photos - none of them are mine, I don't claim copyright) of the > V&A supportasse: > > http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/ > > Nicole > > ===== > "Brains, not Bombs" > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:08:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35L8jMX012089 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:08:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35K6tKo002620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35K6sXi014200; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe47.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35K6pXi014166 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:06:46 -0800 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by OE47.law8.internal.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 20:06:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030405151119.86675.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> <000b01c2fbac$075e9160$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:07:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2003 20:06:46.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[E28AE570:01C2FBAE] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just make sure your camera works correctly :-) We want to see it :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:46 PM Subject: Re: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress > Come on! > My question was if there were a collar in behind of the lace colar. You say > yes, it is a supportasse. And i say OK! > I have lots of pictures of suppportasses, so dont worry. > Well > This night, saturday night i dressed up for my husband Leif, for the Bath > Ball!!! > I tell you!!!!!!!!!! > I will be so incredible incredible beautifull to look at!!!!!!!!!!! > With beautifull make-up and tight breeches and 3 rolls each ear and a large > tail behind. > You should see my stock kravat buckle soooooooo beautifull, but i tell you, > only the close people gets to see it > My pose is sooooooooooo sooooooooooo beautifull and you have never seen > anything like it > I nearly faint............. but Leif is impressed at last!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Kipar" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 5:11 PM > Subject: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress > > > > --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > > It might be a blue "supportass" [did I spell that right?]. There is a > real > > > one somewhere...the V&A? Isn't it in Janet Arnold? Anyway I've seen it > in a > > > photo somewhere attached to a Ropa, which has a high neck. The wide > scoop > > > neck of the gown would require a rethinking of this. I don't know if a > > > supportass for a gown still exists. Anyone? > > > > Yes, it exists, it is in the V&A but unfortunately not on display anymore > (as > > far as I remmeber, will be back in London in the V&A - hehehe, paid by > work, > > coz I have a falh-day conference in Kensington) on the 16th, will check. I > > uploaded two photos - none of them are mine, I don't claim copyright) of > the > > V&A supportasse: > > > > http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/ > > > > Nicole > > > > ===== > > "Brains, not Bombs" > > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Plus > > For a better Internet experience > > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:08:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35L8pMX012092 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:08:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35K91Ko002774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35K90Xi015171; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35K8vXi015130 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B70B447FF21 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:08:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005801c2fbaf$6e4242c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c2fb94$5bbdeb60$6401a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: supportasse photos Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:10:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Saragrace! The catalog from Munic has 2 supportasses each very pretty edged with lace. Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Wait you just and see after the Georgian Ball at Bath Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 6:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] RE: supportasse photos > Very cool pictures-thank you Nicole. I have to run somewhere, but I > have a photo of an actual wired supportasse in a book. I think you have > found the closer item but it might be interesting just to chat about. I > will put it up when I get home. > > Sg > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:10:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LAwMX012111 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:10:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KB0Ko002959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KAxXi015946; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KArXi015922 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CDC4C47FF5A for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:10:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005e01c2fbaf$b3108c90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030405151119.86675.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com><000b01c2fbac$075e9160$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:12:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have severral memory cards with me, so dont worry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:07 PM Subject: Re: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress > Just make sure your camera works correctly :-) We want to see it :-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:46 PM > Subject: Re: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress > > > > Come on! > > My question was if there were a collar in behind of the lace colar. You > say > > yes, it is a supportasse. And i say OK! > > I have lots of pictures of suppportasses, so dont worry. > > Well > > This night, saturday night i dressed up for my husband Leif, for the Bath > > Ball!!! > > I tell you!!!!!!!!!! > > I will be so incredible incredible beautifull to look at!!!!!!!!!!! > > With beautifull make-up and tight breeches and 3 rolls each ear and a > large > > tail behind. > > You should see my stock kravat buckle soooooooo beautifull, but i tell > you, > > only the close people gets to see it > > My pose is sooooooooooo sooooooooooo beautifull and you have never seen > > anything like it > > I nearly faint............. but Leif is impressed at last!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "N Kipar" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 5:11 PM > > Subject: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress > > > > > > > --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > > > It might be a blue "supportass" [did I spell that right?]. There is a > > real > > > > one somewhere...the V&A? Isn't it in Janet Arnold? Anyway I've seen it > > in a > > > > photo somewhere attached to a Ropa, which has a high neck. The wide > > scoop > > > > neck of the gown would require a rethinking of this. I don't know if a > > > > supportass for a gown still exists. Anyone? > > > > > > Yes, it exists, it is in the V&A but unfortunately not on display > anymore > > (as > > > far as I remmeber, will be back in London in the V&A - hehehe, paid by > > work, > > > coz I have a falh-day conference in Kensington) on the 16th, will check. > I > > > uploaded two photos - none of them are mine, I don't claim copyright) of > > the > > > V&A supportasse: > > > > > > http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/ > > > > > > Nicole > > > > > > ===== > > > "Brains, not Bombs" > > > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > > > > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > > > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Yahoo! Plus > > > For a better Internet experience > > > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:25:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LPiMX012188 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:25:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KPvKo003769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:25:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KPtXi021436; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:25:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcnstx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KPnXi021392 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.216])h35KPkXX008525 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:25:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030405115354.04f21de0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:14:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling In-Reply-To: References: <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras> <4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com> <03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g> <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>A couple of years ago I ordered from my feather supplier an extra full boa >>for my Merlin costume. The piece that came was stunning! I wondered at the >>time if it might be 'starling' for these reasons...black with lots of green >>and purple lights. It seemed at the time that it would have taken a LOT of >>rooster plumage of those colors. > >Not likely to be starlings for a feather boa unless it was for a Barbie >doll. :) They're tiny little things. You're probably right that it was >rooster plumage, given those colors. Starlings are about the size of a robin. They're smaller than a pigeon and larger than a sparrow. The male is a glossy iridescent black, while the female is a dull brownish black. Meanwhile, roosters don't produce eggs for the egg rancher, and I'm guessing there's a 50/50 chance that any fertile egg will produce a male bird. If so, these extra birds will certainly end up as meat products and feather products. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:25:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LPxMX012191 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:25:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KQAKo003794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:26:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KQAXi021554; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:26:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcnstx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KPqXi021401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:25:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.216])h35KPkXZ008525 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:25:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030405121535.04f20180@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:25:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question In-Reply-To: <001b01c2fb52$9c36c3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Yes all the fabrics, wich you dont get anymore, and the shop should have a >large range of silk embroidery threads, and metal threads, spangels and the >like. >If such a store excisted here in Copenhagen, i would be a poor man. > >Bjarne Or you'd own it, and get rich mail-ordering to the rest of us. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:26:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LQ7MX012196 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:26:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KQIKo003818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:26:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KQHXi021615; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcnstx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KPtXi021429 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.216])h35KPkXb008525 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:25:53 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030405121805.04f27610@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:20:00 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Winter again - OK, get out the maps! In-Reply-To: <3E8EDCB7.C393E265@costumepress.com> References: <000f01c2fb6a$228e6e20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001101c2fb6c$2d755860$02fea8c0@homeec> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Here in Colorado Springs we got an inch of snow overnight. I haven't >heard a forecast for today beyond "wet, dreary and cold". > >A good day to stay inside and organize the sewing area! I bought some >navy blue almost gauze yesterday. It looks like a misprint, as you can >see the faintest shadows of some flowers. I hope they show up a bit in >the sunshine. It's for a summer overdress (@1600), with a row of narrow >needle lace around the neckline. I also got some 1/2 yard cuts of misc >stuff off the flat fold remnant (is that redundant?) table for making >cushion covers. Here, near San Francisco, the sun is streaming in the windows, and I'm facing the un-fun prospect of having to go to a library to do some research for my next living history character. I see blue sky and fluffy little clouds, at about 12:15 in the afternoon. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:26:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LQHMX012199 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:26:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KQPKo003842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KQOXi021656; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:26:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.rcnstx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KPvXi021450 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:25:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-238-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.238.216])h35KPkXd008525 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:25:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030405122125.04f206a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:24:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question In-Reply-To: <20030405172211.52876.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200304051209.h35C9A1Q000995@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The perfect store: > >A cross between: > >Stone Mountain & Daughter >Dharma Trading Company >AlterYears >Lacis >Skein Lane (a yarn shop) >Needle in a Haystack > >with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea >shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much >shopping is hard work! 8-) Oh yeah - we forgot about the great cappuccino place next door and the yummy-but-cheap restaurant the other side of it, and the electronics store and the well-stocked bookstore just down from that. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:28:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LSfMX012207 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:28:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KSqKo003968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KSpXi022503; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:28:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KSmXi022483 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AD3D447FF49 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:28:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008101c2fbb2$3520aec0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304051209.h35C9A1Q000995@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20030405122125.04f206a0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:30:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Bjarne here Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question > > >The perfect store: > > > >A cross between: > > > >Stone Mountain & Daughter > >Dharma Trading Company > >AlterYears > >Lacis > >Skein Lane (a yarn shop) > >Needle in a Haystack > > > >with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea > >shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much > >shopping is hard work! 8-) > > Oh yeah - we forgot about the great cappuccino place next door and the > yummy-but-cheap restaurant the other side of it, and the electronics store > and the well-stocked bookstore just down from that. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:30:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LUMMX012216 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:30:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KUTKo004036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KUTXi023031; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KUQXi023016 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A5A247FF0C for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:30:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008a01c2fbb2$6f8f06b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304051209.h35C9A1Q000995@net.indra.com><4.3.1.2.20030405122125.04f206a0@mail.frys.com> <008101c2fbb2$3520aec0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:32:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Karolyn! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question > Hello > Bjarne here > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:24 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question > > > > > > >The perfect store: > > > > > >A cross between: > > > > > >Stone Mountain & Daughter > > >Dharma Trading Company > > >AlterYears > > >Lacis > > >Skein Lane (a yarn shop) > > >Needle in a Haystack > > > > > >with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea > > >shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much > > >shopping is hard work! 8-) > > > > Oh yeah - we forgot about the great cappuccino place next door and the > > yummy-but-cheap restaurant the other side of it, and the electronics store > > and the well-stocked bookstore just down from that. > > > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:35:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LZuMX012239 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:35:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KaBKo004423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KaAXi025156; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KYoXi024678 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EF1747FF24 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:34:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <009201c2fbb3$0cf3d7a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304051209.h35C9A1Q000995@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20030405122125.04f206a0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:36:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please say hello to Bjarne from country Denmark. I tell you!!!!!!!!!!! -The mask of Bjarne is incredible good, Almost like the mask of Redmond Berry esquire!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question > > >The perfect store: > > > >A cross between: > > > >Stone Mountain & Daughter > >Dharma Trading Company > >AlterYears > >Lacis > >Skein Lane (a yarn shop) > >Needle in a Haystack > > > >with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea > >shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much > >shopping is hard work! 8-) > > Oh yeah - we forgot about the great cappuccino place next door and the > yummy-but-cheap restaurant the other side of it, and the electronics store > and the well-stocked bookstore just down from that. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:41:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LfSMX012258 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KfdKo004642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KfcXi026847; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:41:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KfZXi026827 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:41:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6869747FED5 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:41:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <009c01c2fbb3$feafb140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras> <4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com> <03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g> <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras> <4.3.1.2.20030405115354.04f21de0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:43:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling > > >>A couple of years ago I ordered from my feather supplier an extra full boa > >>for my Merlin costume. The piece that came was stunning! I wondered at the > >>time if it might be 'starling' for these reasons...black with lots of green > >>and purple lights. It seemed at the time that it would have taken a LOT of > >>rooster plumage of those colors. > > > >Not likely to be starlings for a feather boa unless it was for a Barbie > >doll. :) They're tiny little things. You're probably right that it was > >rooster plumage, given those colors. > > Starlings are about the size of a robin. They're smaller than a pigeon and > larger than a sparrow. The male is a glossy iridescent black, while the > female is a dull brownish black. > > Meanwhile, roosters don't produce eggs for the egg rancher, and I'm > guessing there's a 50/50 chance that any fertile egg will produce a male > bird. If so, these extra birds will certainly end up as meat products and > feather products. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 16:49:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35LnWMX012314 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:49:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KnfKo005038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:49:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KndXi029527; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:49:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35KnaXi029502 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:49:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0127.cvx31-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.146.127] helo=earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 191ubX-0004cH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:49:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3E8F41B2.76653087@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:50:58 -0800 From: Cecilia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silky Tassel Material? References: <3E865FAE.46FF9B6C@dandy.net> <3.0.6.32.20030331182014.00cf40b0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Margo Anderson wrote: > My new feather boa just arrived! This is for my 1920's Queen Latifahesque > gown, for the Saturday Night social at Costume Con. > > Unfortunately, at 6 feet long, it seems a bit short for my sumptuous > proportions. I've seen, in a book from the period, a feather boa with long > (12"+) silk tassels on both ends, and I'd like to add some to mine. Can > anyone suggest a source for thread or cord to make them ? I'm running a > bit tight on both cash and time, so I'd prefer a non mail order solution, > and a reasonable substitute for silk is fine. Do yarn shops have anything > that would work? Any other suggestions? I've seen tassels made from embroidery floss. The advantage with embroidery floss is the colors available. -- Cecilia knitting a new paradigm in southern California pyrfectpup@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~pyrfectpup/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 17:17:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35MHAMX012385 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:17:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LHLKo006627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LHJYH009748; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LHGYH009729 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:17:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.246]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E32DC47FF0C for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:17:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00aa01c2fbb8$fbb9b080$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras><4.3.1.2.20030403133841.00dd4930@mail.frys.com><03ab01c2fa60$ebfe6f40$190f8ea7@herselftifhj9g><002001c2fafb$2accdf00$675183d1@rmitchellras><4.3.1.2.20030405115354.04f21de0@mail.frys.com> <009c01c2fbb3$feafb140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:19:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:14 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Endangered buying & selling > > > > > > >>A couple of years ago I ordered from my feather supplier an extra full > boa > > >>for my Merlin costume. The piece that came was stunning! I wondered at > the > > >>time if it might be 'starling' for these reasons...black with lots of > green > > >>and purple lights. It seemed at the time that it would have taken a LOT > of > > >>rooster plumage of those colors. > > > > > >Not likely to be starlings for a feather boa unless it was for a Barbie > > >doll. :) They're tiny little things. You're probably right that it was > > >rooster plumage, given those colors. > > > > Starlings are about the size of a robin. They're smaller than a pigeon > and > > larger than a sparrow. The male is a glossy iridescent black, while the > > female is a dull brownish black. > > > > Meanwhile, roosters don't produce eggs for the egg rancher, and I'm > > guessing there's a 50/50 chance that any fertile egg will produce a male > > bird. If so, these extra birds will certainly end up as meat products and > > feather products. > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 17:48:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35Mm7MX012533 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:48:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LmFKo008624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:48:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LmCYH021482; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Lm9YH021440 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:48:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.38.37b15880 (4262) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:47:58 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <38.37b15880.2bc0a90e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:47:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The perfect fabric store in my fantasies would have fabric organized by color/shade, and fiber content, that way coordinates would be easy to find. The bolts on re-orderable fabric would have more bolts behind the first one. There would be a section of non-upholstery brocades, and a selection of NATURAL FABRIC brocades...unlike anything I can find, even using the Internet! Of course, there would be a nice big remnant section, and a "mis-loomed" and "mis-knit" section, for muslins and art-wear, at cheap prices. Can you imagine muslining a corset in like...screwy calico? There would also be a Silk-Connection like section, with dyeable silks and other fabrics. The employees would know how to sew, dye, and at least one would know stuff about costuming. Also, it would be five miles from my house. Oh, and it would have a tea/coffee shop in the corner, with scones, cookies, and biscotti laid out on nice plates. And yeah...if I could get something custom-loomed at reasonable prices, THAT would be really great too! Christine In a message dated 4/5/03 12:22:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, dme_maud@pacbell.net writes: > A cross between: > > Stone Mountain &Daughter > Dharma Trading Company > AlterYears > Lacis > Skein Lane (a yarn shop) > Needle in a Haystack > > with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea > shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much > shopping is hard work! 8-) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 17:49:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35Mn9MX012567 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:49:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LnMKo008728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:49:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LnLYH021929; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:49:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LnJYH021869 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:49:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m69.in-tch.com [216.166.191.69]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h35LVZ928151 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:31:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E8F4FA3.B2F393CF@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 14:50:27 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Winter again - OK, get out the maps! References: <000f01c2fb6a$228e6e20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E8EDCB7.C393E265@costumepress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here in Missoula, MT, we've been getting mixed rain and snow (actually pretty typical around here for March and early April). And stuff that's some weird cross between corn snow (like little, tiny styrofoam pellets) and hail. It's overcast, gloomy, and cold--a perfect day to stay in and do "chores," although I really do need to get the leaves off the lawn, such as it is . So...(OCC) I'm finishing up my 12th row of embroidery for my camicia (only 8 more to go! wa-hoo!), working on taxes, and planning to go shopping in a bit for some ingredients for a chicken curry, and maybe swinging by our JoAnn's to see if they have any interesting linen (which they occasionally do), since I need some thread anyways..... And thanks for the reminder, Marged...I'd forgotten I wanted to look for a remnant to recover a couch pillow..... --Sue, thinking it might also be a good day to make brownies...mmmmm..... Mary Denise Smith wrote: > > Here in Colorado Springs we got an inch of snow overnight. I haven't > heard a forecast for today beyond "wet, dreary and cold". > > A good day to stay inside and organize the sewing area! I bought some > navy blue almost gauze yesterday. It looks like a misprint, as you can > see the faintest shadows of some flowers. I hope they show up a bit in > the sunshine. It's for a summer overdress (@1600), with a row of narrow > needle lace around the neckline. I also got some 1/2 yard cuts of misc > stuff off the flat fold remnant (is that redundant?) table for making > cushion covers. > > MD/Marged > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 17:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35MqWMX012595 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LqEKo008936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LqEYH022979; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35LqBYH022948 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:52:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m69.in-tch.com [216.166.191.69]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h35LYS929192 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:34:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E8F5050.83B6B30B@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 14:53:20 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies References: <000001c2fb4a$7904e1f0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've heard that, too. Gail, if you've got a video store in your area that caters to Christian/religious families, you might check them out. --sue Linda Rice wrote: > > Actually, I heard on the news last week that there is a company that > takes regular movies and re-edits them to remove the violence, sex, etc > and then sells the finished product as suitable for all ages. IIRC they > have at least the knowledge if not the approval of the movie companies > to do this. The story said that some movies can't be done, because once > all the sex and violence are removed there is not enough left to hold a > movie together! > > Linda > > -----Original Message----- > [h-cost] Re: OT, movies > > gailscott@eos.net writes: > > > PS: I wish that DVDs would come with rated G or PG versions of movies. > I bet > > a lot of parents would buy them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 18:06:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35N6PMX012682 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:06:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35M6YKo010034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:06:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35M6XcB028454; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35M6UcB028415 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:06:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m69.in-tch.com [216.166.191.69]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h35Lml904258 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:48:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E8F53AA.618B7F27@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:07:38 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question References: <20030405172211.52876.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, yeah, but I'd add some natural fiber resources (like our local shop, Joseph's Coat), and I'd throw in some other stores I'm more familiar with--Lacemaker, FireMountain, and Hedgehog Handiworks. Plus, of course, they'd be fully webbed, for online purchases. And they'd have a research library and computers available (maybe in a corner near the tea shop? which would, of *course* sell scones with real clotted cream?) --Sue, who'd also like to add (in the same "shopping center") a day spa, for foot massages and such after shopping.... Jacobson Dawn wrote: > > The perfect store: > > A cross between: > > Stone Mountain & Daughter > Dharma Trading Company > AlterYears > Lacis > Skein Lane (a yarn shop) > Needle in a Haystack > > with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea > shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much > shopping is hard work! 8-) > > Dawn > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. > --Dalai Lama > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 18:49:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35Nn1MX012955 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:49:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35MnAKo012505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:49:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Mn8cB014182; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Mn4cB014157 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923537AACD for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 59344-02 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-249.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.176.249]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DC57AB46 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:48:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:59:34 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030405122125.04f206a0@mail.frys.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO and Mendels' funky fabrics, too. and some Latex that doesn't have to be imported from the UK. And the quality of wool and cashmere that Felsen Fabrics used to sell - at the same cheap price. On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 12:24 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> The perfect store: >> >> A cross between: >> >> Stone Mountain & Daughter >> Dharma Trading Company >> AlterYears >> Lacis >> Skein Lane (a yarn shop) >> Needle in a Haystack >> >> with a professional, knowledgeable staff and a tea >> shop so I can get a "cuppa." After all, this much >> shopping is hard work! 8-) > > Oh yeah - we forgot about the great cappuccino place next door and the > yummy-but-cheap restaurant the other side of it, and the electronics > store and the well-stocked bookstore just down from that. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 18:50:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35No0MX012962 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:50:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35MoEKo012552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35MoDcB014562; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:50:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40811.mail.yahoo.com (web40811.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h35MoBcB014502 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:50:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030405225006.70970.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.126.155.0] by web40811.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 14:50:06 PST Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:50:06 -0800 (PST) From: Cynthia Corley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304052050.h35KoBXk029767@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: fun question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about a nice selection of fabric paints and dyes , leather and leatherworking stuff, jewelry findings, beads, etc...! Oh, and did I mention the chocolate section? :-) ===== An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Gandhi __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 18:52:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35Nq1MX012971 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:52:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35MqCKo012666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:52:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35MqCcB015131; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:52:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Mq9cB015083 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.f5.2b92ea22 (4262) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:51:59 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:51:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fun question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I second the chocolate section! Obligatory costume content: I get a three day break from making play costumes, yay! Of course, I don't get to work on my own costumes, either :( Christine In a message dated 4/5/03 5:50:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, cyncorley@yahoo.com writes: > Oh, and did I mention the chocolate > section? :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 19:21:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h360LHMX013085 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:21:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35NLQKo014271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35NLPgj025414; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35NLMgj025401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCW007C28VLBW@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:21:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:16:12 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric In-reply-to: <3E8F1BB3.2060302@kabelfoon.nl> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:08 PM 4/5/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > >I am making mine from wool. >But I don't know if this is apropriate for nobels. >Maby my website can be of little help. >http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Projects/Loosegown.html >Witin two weeks I wil have time to work on my gown again :-) :-) . > >Greetings, > Deredere Hi Deredere, Thanks for the link and your info. Looks like we both have the same idea (I swear I only thought of it when I looked at the book.) I like what you have done. It looks very elegant with the red lining showing through. The wool I am using is blue-greenish, with a subtle plaid of colors (nothing official, just a plaid design), so I am not positive what would be a good contrast to it for a lining. I love the lace you are using, too. Nothing like that in my neck of the world. I hope to get mine finished in two weeks time (or less would be ideal). But I want to see what you do with yours when you are finished. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 19:30:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h360U5MX013143 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35NLdKo014300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:21:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35NLcgj025492; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:21:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35NLMgl025401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCW007C28VLBW@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:21:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:17:53 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151630.02cec180@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:21 PM 4/5/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Everybody wears wool---it's one of the biggest exports England has. Think >about your own wardrobe: you probably have some really dressy clothes >(velvet), but most of your clothes aren't dressy (wool). Or maybe you >have some incredibly beautiful, finely woven wool that you want to use as >a "best" dress. > > > >Nancy Kiel Thanks Nancy for the perspective on the use of wool. Just because portaits were done in the finest of clothes, doesn't mean the fine wool wasn't worn at court, or so I hope. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 19:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h360wvMX013255 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:58:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Nx7Ko016696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35Nx4wN010353; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxout3.cac.washington.edu (mxout3.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h35NwxwO010319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) ESMTP id h35NNsv8011548 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:23:54 -0800 Received: from UROPORTABLE (D-128-95-177-182.dhcp4.washington.edu [128.95.177.182])h35NNr8F012335 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:23:53 -0800 Message-ID: <00a801c2fbca$5f065010$b6b15f80@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304051209.h35C9A1Q000995@net.indra.com><4.3.1.2.20030405122125.04f206a0@mail.frys.com> <009201c2fbb3$0cf3d7a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:23:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Hello Bjarne X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne - If you are trying to send photos they aren't coming through. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question > Please say hello to Bjarne from country Denmark. > I tell you!!!!!!!!!!! -The mask of Bjarne is incredible good, > Almost like the mask of Redmond Berry esquire!!! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 21:20:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h362KbMX013653 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:20:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h361KcKo020985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h361KUjS007201; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h361KQjS007167 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-010-010.jps.net ([216.119.10.10] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 191ypc-0002Sn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:20:25 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c2fbdc$47b953a0$0a0a77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:27:10 -0800 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO FYI - The English sumptuary laws of both 13 Feb 1588 and 1597 deal with imported wool and limit it's use to male nobles and their children. The use of imported wool for women is not addressed, nor is domestic wool. I don't know enough about the wool trade to know if foreign wool was of a better quality and thus reserved for the upper class or if for economic reasons lower orders where not to wear the imported cloth irregardless of its quality. 1588 - "First, it is ordered that no man under the degree of a marquis, earl, and their children, or under the degree of baron, unless he be a knight of the Order of the Garter, shall wear in any part of his apparel any wool cloth made out of any of the Queen's majesty's dominions, except in bonnets only." 1597 - "None shall wear in his apparel cloth of gold or silver tissued, silk of color purple under the degree of an earl, except Knights of the Garter in their purple mantles only; Cloth of gold or silver, tinseled satin, silk or cloth mixed or embroidered with pearl, gold, or silver, wool cloth made out of the realm, under the degree of a baron, except Knights of the Garter, Privy Councilors to the Queen's majesty;" These quotes come from "Tudor Royal Proclamations" a three volume set covering 1485 to 1603, edited by P. L. Hughes and J. F. Larkin. Most of the other proclamations regarding wool concern manufacturing standards. Seems some unscrupulous merchants were weaving bolts of fabric with high quality wool on the end of the bolts where visible and using coarser yards for the middle and end which was causing England's reputation to be ruined overseas. Just a few more facts to have at hand in the fabric selection dilemma. Good luck with your garment! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric > At 08:08 PM 4/5/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I am making mine from wool. > >But I don't know if this is apropriate for nobels. > >Maby my website can be of little help. > >http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Projects/Loosegown.html > >Witin two weeks I wil have time to work on my gown again :-) :-) . > > > >Greetings, > > Deredere > > Hi Deredere, > > Thanks for the link and your info. Looks like we both have the same idea (I > swear I only thought of it when I looked at the book.) > > I like what you have done. It looks very elegant with the red lining > showing through. The wool I am using is blue-greenish, with a subtle plaid > of colors (nothing official, just a plaid design), so I am not positive > what would be a good contrast to it for a lining. I love the lace you are > using, too. Nothing like that in my neck of the world. > > I hope to get mine finished in two weeks time (or less would be ideal). But > I want to see what you do with yours when you are finished. > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 21:24:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h362OoMX013668 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:24:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h361P4Ko021316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h361P4jS008847; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h361P1jS008834 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31666 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2003 01:25:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2003 01:25:00 -0000 Received: from 209.209.20.47 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:25:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1063.209.209.20.47.1049592300.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question From: To: In-Reply-To: <3E8F53AA.618B7F27@in-tch.com> References: <20030405172211.52876.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> <3E8F53AA.618B7F27@in-tch.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Oh, yeah, but I'd add some natural fiber resources (like our local shop, > Joseph's Coat), and I'd throw in some other stores I'm more familiar > with--Lacemaker, FireMountain, and Hedgehog Handiworks. > Plus, of course, they'd be fully webbed, for online purchases. It seems to me that there are plenty of places to order online or don't you guys agree? Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 22:26:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h363Q6MX014001 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:26:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h362QFKo024084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:26:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h362QDvR027362; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:26:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h362QBvR027333 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m213.in-tch.com [216.166.191.213]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3628R924646 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:08:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E8F9088.D3119A73@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:27:20 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question References: <20030405172211.52876.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> <1063.209.209.20.47.1049592300.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are lots of places for lots of things online, but this, being the perfect store, would be all in one place! So a person wouldn't have to remember which site it was that occasionally had wool, or...... --sue dch@inreach.com wrote: > > > Oh, yeah, but I'd add some natural fiber resources (like our local shop, > > Joseph's Coat), and I'd throw in some other stores I'm more familiar > > with--Lacemaker, FireMountain, and Hedgehog Handiworks. > > Plus, of course, they'd be fully webbed, for online purchases. > > It seems to me that there are plenty of places to order online or don't > you guys agree? > > Diana > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 5 23:16:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h364GlMX014241 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:16:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h363F7Ko026476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h363Ex7N013597; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h363Ev7N013581 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-65.58.46.19.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([65.58.46.19] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1920cR-0005nw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:14:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3E8F9BA1.73446ABC@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 21:14:41 -0600 From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've heard, and since I don't remember where I can't even guess if it is *actually* true, that blockbuster had semi-edited editions that would be more suitable for families to watch. Not totally PG-ing and R-rated film but perhaps toning down the worst bits. But since I rarely rent movies I can't say if I've noticed any difference. I just bought a copy of Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion: The cut and construction of clothes for men and women c1560-1620" and Barnes and Nobles. . Onaree Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > PS: I wish that DVDs would come with rated G or PG versions of movies. I bet > a lot of parents would buy them. > -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 00:28:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h365SuMX014503 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 00:28:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h364T0Ko029753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h364SxYe006715; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:28:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h364StYe006688 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:28:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCW007C5N46S2@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 20:28:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 20:23:37 -0800 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel In-reply-to: <000001c2fbdc$47b953a0$0a0a77d8@pavilion> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405201640.02ce9c78@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Lisa, Ooooh, thank you very much for the info. I was wondering what I could do for my husband's outfit, which would be in black velvet with red damask lining/slashing. But I wanted gold or silver somewhere as well, and some beading & pearls for my kirtle. Now I know what I can and can't do depending on my station. That still is to be ironed out with specific characters, but now I know what is possible. At 05:27 PM 4/5/2003 -0800, you wrote: > 1597 - "None shall wear in his apparel cloth of gold or silver tissued, silk > of color purple under the degree of an earl, except Knights of the Garter in > their purple mantles only; Cloth of gold or silver, tinseled satin, silk or > cloth mixed or embroidered with pearl, gold, or silver, wool cloth made out > of the realm, under the degree of a baron, except Knights of the Garter, > Privy Councilors to the Queen's majesty;" This one is a bit confusing. The cloth of gold or silver is repeated twice. The "tissued" first under the degree of earl. Then again, but not noted as tissued, under the degree of baron. This makes me wonder what the difference was? And what is "tissued" anyway? Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 03:59:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h367xNMX014877 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 03:59:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h366v0Ko005467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h366urfk018950; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h366uofk018915 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h366ui910494 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:56:44 +1000 Message-ID: <005201c2fc09$eede0c70$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c2fb4a$7904e1f0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <000e01c2fb92$5d2ca880$981077d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:58:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: "Linda Rice" > > Actually, I heard on the news last week that there is a company that > > takes regular movies and re-edits them to remove the violence, sex, etc > > and then sells the finished product as suitable for all ages. IIRC they > > have at least the knowledge if not the approval of the movie companies > > to do this. The story said that some movies can't be done, because once > > all the sex and violence are removed there is not enough left to hold a > > movie together! >From: "Lisa Sinervo" > A video store in Utah has been doing that for years for their conservative > clientele. "Who", the sister magazine of "People" in Australia ran an > article of what the movies theoretically would end up like after the > editing. Can't remember them all, but "The Full Monty" was a story about > some unemployed English factory workers that stayed unemployed etc.... Titanic was the biggest one concerned and it was the sex seen in the car that was removed as well as Rose giving the Valet the finger in the elevator. And yes as Heather said they're currently being sued for breech of copyright. The films have been edited without the knowledge or consent of the copywrite owner (or even the director for that matter). And while it would be easy enough for you to purchase a video copy of the film and have some-one edit your personal copy, the pre-editing and selling of these tapes is what causes them to be illegal. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 04:08:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3688hMX015049 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 04:08:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3678WKo006005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 00:08:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3678Vfk022466; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 00:08:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3678Sfk022430 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 00:08:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from default.attbi.com (c-24-245-41-166.mn.client2.attbi.com[24.245.41.166]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20030406070823002004kl83e>; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 07:08:23 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030406010805.031e3660@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 01:09:56 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fun question In-Reply-To: <45007.162.119.64.111.1049496848.squirrel@webmail.inreach.c om> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting question. : ) Beside all you listed I would have to add leather gloves of all sizes (some with extra long fingers) for all historical periods, etc... It would also have the massive selection of silk covered parasols I had a dream about... Oh and shoes for all periods in all sizes! As for fabrics - reasonably priced authentic (as possible) reproductions for all time periods... Cheers, Danielle At 02:54 PM 4/4/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hello everyone! > >I am coming back to this list after a long absence and it is great to join >you all again! > >And I thought of a fun question for everyone to spark some discussion: > >If you were to dream up the perfect fabric & accessories store, what would >it have? > >For me, I would want great textured fabrics, all kinds of silk, lovely >striped fabrics for a Victorian day dress, corset supplies (so I wouldn't >have to mail order), hoop skirts, fashion & art books, and nice quality >trims (including silk ribbon and cotton grosgrain) > >Cheers, > >Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 07:47:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36BlbMX015952 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 07:47:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36AliKo013989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 04:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36AletU016609; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 04:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h36AlctU016582 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 04:47:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030406104732.84780.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 11:47:32 BST Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:47:32 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: supportasse photos, was Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000b01c2fbac$075e9160$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Come on! > My question was if there were a collar in behind of the lace colar. You say > yes, it is a supportasse. And i say OK! > I have lots of pictures of suppportasses, so dont worry. Well, that's good then. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 07:57:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36BvoMX015974 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 07:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36Aw4Ko014440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 04:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36Aw3mP019309; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 04:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36Aw0mP019253 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 04:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E1C110B4F for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D290110F81B for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02e801c2fc2b$5fda4ad0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030405172211.52876.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com><1063.209.209.20.47.1049592300.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <3E8F9088.D3119A73@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:57:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > It seems to me that there are plenty of places to order online or don't > > you guys agree? > > > > Diana There are--but if you don't use credit cards or checks, it's a bit of a hassle. And there's the touchy-feely aspect of fabric-buying to consider too. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 12:13:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36GDrMX020967 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36FE2Ko024362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36FE0GX000987; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41011.mail.yahoo.com (web41011.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h36FDuGX000950 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030406151351.11894.qmail@web41011.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41011.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 08:13:51 PDT Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:13:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Tania Gruning To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Thank you and Christian the fourth of Denmark. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all for your advice regarding the shift/chemise/smock, it was all really helpfull. I was at a fleamarket this weekend and scored a museum catalogue about the Christian the fourth exhibits in 1988. In there is a full color portrait of Christian as a boy. Painted by Hans Knieber in about 1582-84. The portrait shows gorgous dark silk doublet with a modest skirt. The silk is woven or embroidered with a brocade pattern in gold. The pattern is fleur-de-lys and a latticework that looks like the edge of a ruff. He also wears a ruff around his neck and a modest pair at his cuffs. The buttons are gold, I think and sleeves are reasonably full and sewn directly to the doublet. There is no shoulder treatment. I cannot see what kind of trousers he is wearing as the portrait ends at midthigh, but it does not look like pluderhosen as I have seen PoF Svante and Niels Sture. Of jewelry he wears three gold chains around his neck, the lowest one contain a gold medaillon with a portrait of his father? and a gold belt. His hair is exstremely close cut or slicked back really tight. If people are interested I could scan the image and put it up somewhere. Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 12:24:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36GOEMX021000 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:24:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36FOPKo024882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36FOPGX004230; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36FOMGX004220 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h36FOLfL019036 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.240] (tnt-1-48.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.240]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36FOC9p018985 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001101c2fb6c$2d755860$02fea8c0@homeec> References: <000f01c2fb6a$228e6e20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001101c2fb6c$2d755860$02fea8c0@homeec> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:11:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > What are you all doing, it is so quiet today!!!! I'm at a Celtic Studies conference -- here at my home university, but four solid days of papers and presentations. I gave my paper on Thursday and may have managed to convince the Celtic Studies community to change how we've been translating one particular Medieval Welsh phrase for the last century. A minor personal triumph. ObCostume: Thursday night we got to see the international debut of an animated film version of the Mabinogi. Somewhat intriguingly, if bafflingly, they had decided to dress all the early-medieval Welsh women in Viking apron-dresses. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 12:56:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36GuYMX021106 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:56:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36FumKo026375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36Ful59014325; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:56:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36Fuj59014315 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192CVg-0006VO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 08:56:44 -0700 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Thank you and Christian the fourth of Denmark. Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:56:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c2fc55$1f869a90$6401a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030406151351.11894.qmail@web41011.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd be interested in the picture-It doesn't sound familiar! Thanks! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 14:08:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36I8QMX021389 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:08:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36H8cKo000241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:08:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36H8alh009517; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h36H8Xlh009480 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:08:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtK1rRy2z+c12XN9DidM0Jegr/A3lR55/Q==">; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:07:53 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HU4M8VKM; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:07:53 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:09:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress Message-ID: <20030405.120956.-336827.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,6-8 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Better late than never. I was at an SCA event all day yesterday and didn't get to the computer until this morning. I am glad we didn't have ice and snow, but could have use a bit cooler temperatures. There seems to be a consensus of opinion that the collar is held up by a supportasse. Margo has a pattern for one in her Elizabethan Women's Accessories. I do love Margo's patterns!!!!! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 14:27:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36IRvMX021453 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:27:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36HRpKo001183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36HRolh016339; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36HRklh016319 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-15-93.o1.jps.net ([216.119.15.93] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Dvg-0003Q5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:27:41 -0700 Message-ID: <002001c2fc63$6fc77660$5d0f77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405201640.02ce9c78@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:37:51 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Note-this long email contains definitions for various types of cloth of gold and the 1597 English Statue and Proclamations of Apparel Kimiko Small wrote: > This one is a bit confusing. The cloth of gold or silver is repeated twice. > The "tissued" first under the degree of earl. Then again, but not noted as > tissued, under the degree of baron. This makes me wonder what the > difference was? And what is "tissued" anyway? > Marie Linthicum in "Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries" discusses three types fabric "Baudkin/Bodkin", "Tinsel" and "Tissue" all being varieties of cloth of gold or silver. She also has a describtion for "Tabine" which I'll include which is a variation of "Cloth of Tissue" BAUDKIN OR BODKIN - "Cloth of bodkin or tissue must be embroidered As if no face were fair that were not powdered." "Bagdad, famous for weaving damasked and brocaded cloths of gold, originated the 'raised work' upon cloth of gold or tissue, known as bodkin work, described in Philaster as 'branched cloth of bodkin' (v. i. 2 5,2). It was, seem ingly, an ancient fabric. Gay notes an allusion to it in 1197, and it is mentioned in the Calendar of Close Rolls in 1232. It was characterized by raised designs of animals, plants, branches, and geometric figures, and made in many colours. azure, blue, perse, purple, green, vermi lion, murrey, &c. Until the fourteenth century bodkin was a product made almost exclusively in Bagdad, Damascus, Cyprus, and Palermo; but during that century its manufacture extended to France, and later to England. Bodkin work was then not limited to silk material. 'Baudequin de laine', 'baudekyn de serico mixto', 'baudekin of cotton StUff' appear in accounts of subsequent centuries. It is therefore difficult to determine whether allusions to bodkin indicate the original handsome silk material or an inferior cloth in raised pattern; but references in The Fatal Dowry, The City Madam, and Philaster are to the cloth of gold." TABINE - "Cloth-of-tissue or tabine That like beaten gold will shine In your amorous ladies' eyne" "sang George Cressingham in an apprentice's 'What do you lack?' style. His description is almost sufficient, for the shine was the chief attraction of tabine. This material,' used by Henry VII in 14871 for carriage awnings, was a thick silk of taffeta weave with a slight nap, calendered by passing in folds under a hot cylinder, which produced an uneven or moire effect on the surface of the material, causing portions to reflect a different light from that of the remainder, thus giving the whole a suggestion of changeable colour which it did not have. Some tabine was enriched by threads of gold or silver. It was a Norwich product by 1602. It was indeed much desired by ladies. Queen Elizabeth's New Year gifts, 1599- 1600, included many articles of tabine. Thirty-one shillings a yard was paid for sixteen yards of 'white fring)red Tabine' bought by Sir Nicholas Bacon in 1591, probably destined for one of the Bacon family. Although that was unusually expensive, its price ranged from ten to twenty shillings a yard." TINSEL "Tinsel was a silk interwoven with gold or silver thread like brocatel. In 1244 a standard was ordered by Henry II for the Church of St. Peter, Westminster. It was to be of 'rubeo samitto qui ubique sit auro extencellatus', a description which probably refers to tinsel which glistened like sparkles of fire. .' Tynsell sateri' was purchased for Elizabeth of York, 1502 and in 1515 Sir Christopher Garneys, writing to Henry VIII, spoke of the Queen of Scotland's inordinate love of clothes, especially her interest in a gown of 'tynsen'., Daughter of Henry VII, s love of rich materials! Queen Elizabeth possessed many garments of tinsel in silver and colours, and a reader of her wardrobe accounts realizes that Shakespeare probably found at Court his inspiration for the Duchess of Milan's gown 'that they praise so' vividly described as of 'cloth of gold, and cuts', laced with silver, set with pearl, and worn over bluish tinsel a beautiful combination of colours. Marston had in mind a sumptuous costume when he dressed the merchant of What You Will in a black beaver hat with ash-coloured band, and a cloth of silk jerkin with sleeves of white satin cut on tinsel." TISSUE - "When Sir Simon de Montacute was buried in 1317, King Edward II ordered two pieces of gold and silk tissue to he laid upon his body. This rich fabric, much used for altar cloths and church vestments Was made of precious metals, or of these metals and silk, and was invented, according to Pliny, by Alexander. It was a favourite material of royalty, occurring in the wardrobe accounts of all sovereigns from Edward 11 to Charles 11. Costume accounts of Henry VIII, his wives, and Court ladies, are full of references to it.. white, russet, silver, &c.8 Galleries were hung with it, and it was used in abundance at the coronation of Anne Boleyn. It was always carefully distinguished from the plain weave of cloth of gold, for both warp and woof of tissue were composed of twisted threads. In the royal wardrobe, 1533, are purple cloth of golde playne', 'purple cloth of golde with workes', i.e. embroidered, 'white cloth of gold rased with silver tissue', i.e. a brocaded pattern of tissue weave in silver on a ground of plain weave white silk and gold, 'russet cloth of gold tissue rased with gold'.' Naturally, references to it were made on the stage, for it was synonymous with wealth. Cleopatra's pavilion was of tissue; Laverdure frets for his tissue suit; Noval's tailor has made him look like an angel in a 'cloth of tissue doublet'., and Lord Cressingham spends fifteen hundred pounds for tissue, cloth of gold, velvets and silks for his wedding a conservative sum, with tissue at two pounds a yard; and there are briefer references to it in The City Madam, The Maid of Honour, and Unnatural Combat, New Way to Pay Old Debts, White Devil." As for the appropriatness of wool for court dress, my knowledge is a beginner's. However, it does appear from my initial readings that Kersey, which was a fine lightweight domestic wool was used by nobility (under what circumstances??) in the 15th century and its use continued into the 16th century but declined at the end of the period, being replaced in popularity by a range of "new draperies" often woven by foreigners moving into England. The new draperies were often mixed fibres, say, a combination of silk and wool. Personally, I would still use a fine wool for a court garment in England. And just to overwhelm you this morining - (this research is as valueable to me as it is to you) I've included the whole 1597 statue of apparel. I've OCR'd it rom "Tudor Royal Proclamations" edited by P.L. Hughes and J.F. Larkin and have only briefly proofread it. 786. ENFORCING THE STATUES AND PROCLAMATIONS OF APPAREL [Greenwich, 6 July 1597, 39 Elizabeth 11 Haffield 141/84 (CalAndar 7, 279): MS draft, corrected by Cecil; date of schedule, 29 June. See HMC 5, 6th R., 29o. STC 8257, Folger 379: printed by deputies of C. Barker (London, xs97); date of schedule, under signet, as above; schedule as below (Herbert 2, 108). UM 5651*13,014. Canterbury MS FIA 20(1596-97), 241: 4d. paid for setting up two proclamations 'for reformation of apparel.' Steele 89o. Text (STC): Folger WHEREAS the Queen's majesty, for avoiding of the great inconvenience that hath grown and daily doth increase within this her realm by the inordinate excess in apparel, bath in her princely wisdom and care for reformation thereof by sundry former proclamations ' straightly charged and commanded those in authority under her to see her laws provided in that behalf duly executed. Whereof notwithstanding, partly through their negligence and partly by the manifest contempt and disobedience of the parties offending, no refor- mation at all hath followed; her majesty, finding by experience that by clemency (whercunto she is most inclinable so long as there is any hope of redress) this increasing evil hath not been cured, hath thought fit to seek to remedy the same by correction and severity to he used against both these kinds of offenders in regard to the present difficulties of this time wherein the decay and lack of hospitality appears in the better sort in all countries, principally occasioned by the immeasurable charges and expenses which they are put to in superfluous appareling their wives, children, and families; the confusion also of degrees in all places being great where the meanest are as richly appareled as their betters, and the pride that such inferior per- sons take in their garments driving many for their maintenance to robbing and stealing by the highway. And yet in her gracious disposition, being willing to have that course of punishment to he the last mean of reforma- tion, did in the end of this last term of the Holy Trinity in her highness' Court of Star Chamber at an assembly of divers lords of her Privy Council, and most of the judges being Justices of Assize, in the open hearing of many justices of the peace of all the parts of the realm and of a multitude of her majesty's subjects there present, by way of admonition signify her princely determination to have (specially at this time) for many urgent considerations this intolerable abuse and unmeasurable disorder reformed. And albeit her highness knows how she might justly make great profit as well by the exe- cutions of her laws standing in force for the penalties already due as also against both the said kinds of offenders for their manifest contempt against her majesty's said proclamations; yet her majesty, not respecting her ad- vantages in these cases but seriously intending the reformation of the abuses and the common good and benefit of all her loving subjects by these most royal and gracious proceedings, hath not only added by these presents such favorable tolerations and qualifications to such points of the former laws now standing in force as by alteration of time may seem in some part hard to be exactly observed, but also hath commanded the due execution of those parts of those laws that be most agreeable to this time and easy and necessary to he observed, without charging either kind of the said offenders for any offense already past, unless it he against such as shall hereafter offend or not observe the special parts and branches of the laws now standing in force ' and articles hereafter following, according to such toleration and moderation thereof as is hereafter expressed and set down; That is to say for men's apparel her majesty doth straightly charge and command that. None shall wear in his apparel cloth of gold or silver tissued, silk of color purple under the degree of an earl, except Knights of the Garter in their purple mantles only; Cloth of gold or silver, tinseled satin, silk or cloth mixed or embroidered with pearl, gold, or silver, wool cloth made out of he realm, under the degree of a baron, except Knights of the Garter, Privy Councilors to the Queen's majesty; Passement lace or other lace of gold or silver or mixed with gold and silver, with gold and silk, with silver and silk; spurs, swords, rapiers, daggers, skeans, woodknives, hangers, buckles, or studs of girdles gilt or damasked with gold or silver, silvered, under the degree of a baron's son, except gentlemen in ordinary office attending upon her majesty in her house or chamber, such as have been employed in embassage to foreign princes, such as may dispend Soo marks by the year for term of life in possession above all charges, and knights for wearing only of spurs, swords, rapiers, and daggers and those other things therewith ensuing, and likewise captains being in her majesty's pay; Velvet in gowns, cloaks, coats, or other uppermost garments, embroidery with silk, netherstocks of silk, under the degree of a knight, except gentle- men in ordinary office attending upon her majesty in her house or chamber, such as have been employed in embassage to foreign princes, the son and heir apparent of a knight, captains in her majesty's pay, and such as may dispend £2oo by the year for term of life in possession above all charges; Velvet in jerkins, hose, doublets; satin, damask, taffeta, grosgrain in gowns, cloaks, coats, or other uppermost garments, under the degree of a knight's eldest son, except gentlemen in ordinary office attending upon her majesty in her house or chamber, such as have been employed in embassages to foreign princes, and such as may dispend £100 by the year for term of life in possession above all charges; Satin, damask, grosgrain, taffeta in hose, doublet, under the degree of a gentleman bearing arms, except gentlemen in ordinary office attending upon her majesty in her house or chamber, such as have been employed in embassages to foreign princes, and such as may dispend £20 by the year for term of life in possession above all charges. None shall have in their saddles, bridles, stirrups, trappings, harness, foot- cloth, or other furniture of their horse any velvet, gilding, damasking with gold or silver, silvering, studs, buckles, or other garniture gilt, damasked with gold or silver, silvered, under the degree of a baron's son, except knights and gentlemen in ordinary office attending upon her majesty in her house or chamber, such as have been employed in embassages to foreign princes, captains being in her majesty's pay, and such as may dispend 5oo marks by the year for term of life in possession above all charges. None shall wear in their apparel any caps, hats, hatbands, caphands, garters, boothose, silk netherstocks trimmed with gold, silver, or pearl, enameled chains, buttons, aglets, except men of the degrees above mentioned, the gentlemen attending upon the Queen's person in her highness' privy chamber or in the office of cuphearer, carver, skewer, esquire for the body, gentlemen ushers, or esquires of the stable; Satin, damask, silk camlet, or taffeta in gown, coat, hose, or uppermost garments; fur whereof the kind groweth not within the Queen's dominions except foins, gray genets, and bodge, except the degrees and persons above mentioned, and men that may dispend £ioo by the year and so valued in the subsidy book; Hat, bonnet, girdle, scabbards of swords, daggers, and etc., shoes, and pantofies of velvet, except the degrees and persons above named, and the son and heir apparent of a knight; Silk, other than satin, damask, taffeta, camiet, in doublets, and sarcenet, camict, or taffeta in facing of gowns and cloaks and in jackets, jerkins, coifs, purses being not of color of scarlet, crimson, or blue, fur of foins, gray genets, or other as the- like groweth not in the Queen's dominions, except men of the degrees and persons above mentioned, son of a knight, or son and heir apparent of a man of 300 mark land by year so valued in the subsidy books, and men that may dispend £40 by the year so valued ut supra. None shall wear spurs, swords, rapiers, daggers, skeans, woodknives, or hangers, buckles of girdles gilt, silvered, or damasked, except knights and barons' sons and other of higher degree or place, and gentlemen in ordinary office attendant upon the Queen's majesty's person, which gentlemen so attendant may wear all the premises saying gilt, silvered, or damasked spurs. None shall wear in their trappings or harness of their horse any studs, buckles, or other garniture gilt, silvered, or damasked, nor stirrups gilt, silvered, or damasked, nor any velvet in saddles or horse trappers, except the persons next before mentioned and others of higher degrees, and gentle- men in ordinary ut supra. Note that the Lord Chancellor, Treasurer, President of the council, Privy Seal may wear any velvet, satin, or other silks except purple, furs except black genets. These may wear as they have heretofore used, viz., any of the King's Council, Justices of either Bench, Barons of the Exchequer, Master of the Rolls, sergeants at law, Masters of the Chancery, of the Queen's council, apprentices at law, physicians of the King, Queen, and Prince, mayors and other head officers of any town corporate, Barons of the Five Ports, except velvet, damask, satin of the color crimson, violet, purple, blue. Note that her majesty's meaning is not by this order to prohibit in any person the wearing of silk buttons, the facing of coats, cloaks, hats, and caps, for comeliness only with taffeta, grosgrain, velvet, or other silk as is commonly used. For women's apparel her majesty doth straightly charge and command that: None shall wear in her apparel cloth of gold or silver tissued, silk of color purple, under the degree of a countess, except viscountesses to wear cloth of gold or silver tissued in their kirtles only; Cloth of gold, cloth of silver, tinseled satin, satins branched with silver or gold, satins striped with silver or gold, taffetas branched with silver or gold, taffetas with gold or silver grounds, tinstled taffetas tufted or plain, tinseled cypresses, cypresses flourished with silver or gold, gold or silver camicts, networks wrought with silver or gold, tabinet branched or wrought with silver or gold, or any other silk or cloth mixed or embroidered with pearl, gold, or silver, under the degree of a baroness, except the wives of barons' eldest sons, and barons' daughters to wear cloth of gold and silver only in their kirtles and linings of their garments, and knights' wives to wear cloth of silver in their kirtles only; Embroideries of gold or silver, passement lace or any other lace of gold or silver or mixed with gold and silver, with gold and silk, with silver and silk; cowls, attires, or other garnishings for the head trimmed with pearl, under the degree of a baron's eldest son's wife, except barons' daughters, the wives of knights of the Order of the Garter or of Privy Councilors, the ladies and gentlewomen of the privy chamber, the maidens of honor, and such whose husbands may dispend 5oo marks by the year for term of lift in possession above all charges; Velvet in gowns, cloaks, safeguards, or other uppermost garments; embroidery with silk; netherstocks of silk, under the degree of a knight's wife, except gentlewomen of the privy chamber, the maidens of honor, and such whose husbands or themselves may dispend £200 by the year for term of life in possession above all charges; Velvet in kirtles, petticoats, satin in gowns, cloaks, safeguards, or other uppermost garments, under the degree of a knight's eldest son's wife, except gentlewomen in the privy chamber, the maidens of honor, gentle- women attendant upon countesses, viscountesses, or ladies of the like or higher degree, and such whose husbands or themselves may dispend £100 by the year for term of life in possession above all charges; Satin in kirtles; damask, tufted taffeta, plain taffeta, grosgrain in gowns, under the degree of a gentleman's wife bearing arms, except gentlewomen attendant upon knights' wives or ladies of the like or higher degree, and such whose husbands or themselves may dispend £40 by the year for term of life in possession above all charges. Gentlewomen attendant upon duchesses, marquises, countesses may wear in their liveries given by their mistresses as the wives of those that may dispend £100 by the year and are so valued ut supra. Gentlewomen attendant upon viscounts' wives and barons' wives may wear in their liveries as the daughters of such as may dispend 300 marks by the year, and as the wives of those that may dispend £40, valued ut supra. None shall wear any velvet, tufted taffeta, satin, or any gold or silver in their petticoats, except wives of barons, knights of the order, or councilors; ladies and gentlewomen of the privy chamber and bed chamber; and the maidens of honor; Damask, taffeta, or other silk in their petticoats, except knights' daughters and such as be matched with them in the former article, who shall not wear a guard of any silk upon their petticoats; Velvet, tufted taffeta, satin, nor any gold or silver in any cloak or safe- guard, except the wives of barons, knights of the order, or councilors, ladies and gentlewomen of the privy chamber and bed chamber, and the maidens of honor, and all degrees above them; Damask ' taffeta, or other silk in any cloak or safeguard, except knights' wives and the degrees and persons above mentioned. No person under the degrees above specified shall wear any guard or welt of silk upon any petticoat, cloak, or safeguard. All which articles, clauses, and premises her majesty straightly com- mandeth to he from henceforth exactly and duly observed in all points; and the parties offending to be further punished as violators and con- temners of her royal and princely commandment by this her highness' proclamation expressed and published. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 14:56:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36IuiMX021568 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:56:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36HuwKo003185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36HuvZ0025691; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:56:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36HurZ0025667 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 192ENs-000DuT-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:56:50 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:54:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405201640.02ce9c78@127.0.0.1> <002001c2fc63$6fc77660$5d0f77d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002001c2fc63$6fc77660$5d0f77d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love this proclamation! Don't you wish our politicians could be so elegant and concise - there's a whole interview's worth in there... "Well, Jeremy, we have tried to work with the industry but self-regulation just isn't working....we don't want to punish law-abiding people, but this has significant effects on society, so much crime nowadays is committed by people just trying to maintain their lace habit....we know people will say it's just a money making scheme but I think the Queen has made clear that is not our intention...." BTW, I think the laws against wearing foreign wool were definitely economic. Wool was always the mainstay of the British economy - there's a reason the Chancellor sits on the Woolsack in Parliament, you know :-) Jean > >WHEREAS the Queen's majesty, for avoiding of the great inconvenience that >hath grown and daily doth increase within this her realm by the inordinate >excess in apparel, bath in her princely wisdom and care for reformation >thereof by sundry former proclamations ' straightly charged and commanded >those in authority under her to see her laws provided in that behalf duly >executed. > >Whereof notwithstanding, partly through their negligence and partly by the >manifest contempt and disobedience of the parties offending, no refor- >mation at all hath followed; her majesty, finding by experience that by >clemency (whercunto she is most inclinable so long as there is any hope of >redress) this increasing evil hath not been cured, hath thought fit to seek >to remedy the same by correction and severity to he used against both these >kinds of offenders in regard to the present difficulties of this time >wherein the decay and lack of hospitality appears in the better sort in all >countries, principally occasioned by the immeasurable charges and expenses >which they are put to in superfluous appareling their wives, children, and >families; the confusion also of degrees in all places being great where the >meanest are as richly appareled as their betters, and the pride that such >inferior per- sons take in their garments driving many for their maintenance >to robbing and stealing by the highway. And yet in her gracious disposition, >being willing to have that course of punishment to he the last mean of >reforma- tion, did in the end of this last term of the Holy Trinity in her >highness' Court of Star Chamber at an assembly of divers lords of her Privy >Council, and most of the judges being Justices of Assize, in the open >hearing of many justices of the peace of all the parts of the realm and of a >multitude of her majesty's subjects there present, by way of admonition >signify her princely determination to have (specially at this time) for many >urgent considerations this intolerable abuse and unmeasurable disorder >reformed. And albeit her highness knows how she might justly make great >profit as well by the exe- cutions of her laws standing in force for the >penalties already due as also against both the said kinds of offenders for >their manifest contempt against her majesty's said proclamations; yet her >majesty, not respecting her ad- vantages in these cases but seriously >intending the reformation of the abuses and the common good and benefit of >all her loving subjects by these most royal and gracious proceedings, hath >not only added by these presents such favorable tolerations and >qualifications to such points of the former laws now standing in force as by >alteration of time may seem in some part hard to be exactly observed, but >also hath commanded the due execution of those parts of those laws that be >most agreeable to this time and easy and necessary to he observed, without >charging either kind of the said offenders for any offense already past, >unless it he against such as shall hereafter offend or not observe the >special parts and branches of the laws now standing in force ' and articles >hereafter following, according to such toleration and moderation thereof as >is hereafter expressed and set down; > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 15:09:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36J9fMX021643 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36I9NKo003851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:09:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36I9MZ0029949; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36I9IZ1029935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h36Iq3ut016272 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:52:03 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h36Iq3nx016270 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:52:03 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:52:02 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <7A4AE557-6794-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> In-Reply-To: <7A4AE557-6794-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200304061452.02828.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h36I9IZ1029935 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 05 April 2003 01:29 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > actually, a lot of people don't wear wool, or only have a sweater or > two out of it. Most people I know stick to cottons for everyday wear - > I have to search long and hard to find good wool clothes casual enough > for everyday. A lot of Americans don't wear wool much. Cotton, on the other hand, in a wide variety of forms, is ubiquitous. It's easy enough to find wool sweaters that are casual, but you're right--most other wool clothing is more formal. Suits, nice pants, or dresses not meant for everyday. -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 15:29:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36JTGMX021732 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:29:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36ITIKo004729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:29:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36ITGZ0006904; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36ITCZ0006880 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-18-243.o1.jps.net ([216.119.18.243] helo=pavilion) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192EtC-0006TT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 11:29:11 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c2fc6c$07c7d740$f31277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:39:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: 9c05c41117f01b301aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec798c1ef0a08218612df7eed6629b188b95350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h36JTGMX021732 Status: RO Kimiko wrote: This one is a bit confusing. The cloth of gold or silver is repeated twice. The "tissued" first under the degree of earl. Then again, but not noted as tissued, under the degree of baron. This makes me wonder what the difference was? And what is "tissued" anyway? Bodkin, tinsel and tissue, all potentially cloths of gold or silver, underwent some changes through time. Tinsel degenerates into a cloth containing any kind of metal, especially copper. I don't know if tinsel containing copper is still considered a "cloth of gold or silver" being an imitation thereof. Tissue and bodkin retain their status, so this could be why Earls could wear a cloth of gold of "tissue" and a baron could have a "cloth of gold" that might be of metal, but not really gold. Just speculation. I've come across quite a few derogatory comments about garments using copper for their embellishment, especially theatrical garments. Lisa Sinervo Threadneedle St. Clothiers www.ThreadneedleSt.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 16:16:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36KGCMX021992 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:16:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JGKKo007518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JGJx3023951; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JGGx3023940 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host-66-81-241-65.rev.o1.com ([66.81.241.65] helo=[66.81.240.249]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Fcl-0001Tb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 15:16:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:46:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:54 AM -0800 4/5/03, Kimiko Small wrote: >After finishing a costume for a client, I can finally do something >for myself. I have a Ren Faire at the end of April, where I will be >joining a nobles group for Elizabeth's court. Having just had a >baby, I don't want to wear a corset so I am about to embark on my >first Spanish style surcoat, similar to one in Janet Arnold's >Pattens of Fashion; the one with the appliques down the front, but >with a fuller pleated back. > >I wanted to make it out of a fine suit wool I have, with the >appliques in either black satin or velvet. However, a friend >commented that nobles would not be wearing wool garments, but it >should be in a velvet with satin appliques. Let me say first of all that what you want to do depends partly on what people generally do in the group you're going to be with. If they are all very glittery, and you are in plain wool, you're going to stand out, and that's not necessarily a good thing -- and still more true if it's vice versa. Second, while I don't have one myself, people tell me that the big issue with the Spanish ropa is weight, especially in hot weather. It takes quite a bit of fabric to make a ropa that hangs properly. (One of the mistakes that I see most often in a variety of historical clothing is that people tend to not use enough yardage, and so the garments look skimpy.) With a ropa, _all_ of the weight of the garment is hanging from your shoulders -- and some people find they get very tired of this after a while. Nobles certainly did wear fine wool (and silk of course), as did everyone who could afford it. An amusing story -- someone from my guild was transferred by his company to England for three years, and he took his Elizabethan clothing with him. He says he quickly discovered _why_ the Elizabethans wore all those layers of wool -- his comment was "It gets bloody COLD over there!" I would also suggest that velvet might be a better choice than satin for your appliques. Most modern satins seem to me to be too shiny to look right. One of my friends had moderately good luck using silk "peau de soie" which is smooth and glossy, but not that in-your-face- kind of shiny. (On the other hand, she also found that it didn't wear particularly well.) Sometimes you can also use the reverse side of satin-like fabrics, which tones them down quite a bit. Other common forms of trimming I've seen seem to be velvet strips along the edges of the garment and patterns of looped and interlaced cording sewn down to the fabric. The latter are unfortunately pretty labor-intensive, but the velvet strips or "gards" are easy and quick. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 16:21:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36KL6MX022013 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:21:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JLHKo007817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JLHx3025873; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JLEx3025837 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h36J3T912786 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:03:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E907E66.5AA7CC43@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 13:22:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress References: <1c3.7b3bd3c.2bc03e7a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen pictures of an extant supportasse made of wire, wrapped in thread (I think). If my tax-stressed brain is remembering correctly, I think it's in one of the photocopied articles I've got that Janet Arnold wrote for Kostum...something, something german. --sue, subsiding back into paperwork..... AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/5/2003 6:54:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > Someone said, that there is a collar behind the standing lace collar. Would > > this be a standing collar attached to the bodice? > > Would this collar have bones in it, to make it stand? > > > > It might be a blue "supportass" [did I spell that right?]. There is a real > one somewhere...the V&A? Isn't it in Janet Arnold? Anyway I've seen it in a > photo somewhere attached to a Ropa, which has a high neck. The wide scoop > neck of the gown would require a rethinking of this. I don't know if a > supportass for a gown still exists. Anyone? > It is very stiff but I don't think it was boned. Instead, it's made of stiff > heavy paper or leather or something and covered with silk. This doesn't mean > it could not be boned with baleen or reeds or something. Doesn't QEI have > those big heart shaped collars wired up with gold wire? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 16:24:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36KO0MX022024 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:24:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JOGKo007987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JOFx3027119; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:24:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36JOCx3027075 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h36J6S913757 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:06:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E907F1E.E16107B7@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 13:25:18 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's new project References: <00ab01c2fadd$0f7a39a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, Bjarne, have a *wonderful* time! And thanks to the person who posted the workable URL for the picture (my computer actually crashed when I tried Bjarne's original link). Does anyone have any theories about what kinds of flowers those are are the dress trim? --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Dear Gail > I hope you got the picture now, someone sended the URL for the big picture. > I am leaving for England monday morning, and i will be at the Bath Ball next > saturday. I have lots of memory cards for my digital camera, so i promise, > the week before easter i shall upload pictures from the ball. > I have everything ready for the ball, and i was allowed to bring the > wardrobe bag with me into the airplane. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 19:52:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36Nq9MX022938 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:52:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MpJKo020602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:51:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MpEEN015334; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MpCEN015318 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 33-64.tnt-1.york.supernet.com ([64.41.33.64] helo=[64.41.32.126]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Iyk-0004ex-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:51:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:50:18 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Pattern material X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... Thanks Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 19:58:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36NwGMX022977 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MwNKo021211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MwKq1017681; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:58:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MwHq1017657 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:58:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49AA7A7BA for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 76279-06 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-179.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.179]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219E47AA5F for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:54:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO banner paper. On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at 03:50 PM, fastusminimus wrote: > Hi > I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* > and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another > copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and > reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy > cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... > > Thanks > Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 19:59:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h36NxPMX022982 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:59:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MxaKo021286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:59:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36Mxaq1018145; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail5.kc.rr.com (fe5.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36MxYq1018123 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:59:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail5.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:58:50 -0500 From: "Talia" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pattern material Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:02:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Non-fusible interfacing. Works great. Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of fastusminimus Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:50 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Pattern material Hi I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... Thanks Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:06:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37069MX023023 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:06:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36N6JKo021628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36N6Iq1020605; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:06:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h36N6Fq1020568 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtK1rRy2z+c1zhm49hjUB+WUeN3+5eAHyA==">; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:05:25 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HU5APJJJ; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:05:25 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:07:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Message-ID: <20030405.180716.-309067.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use light weight unwoven interface fabric. Of course, I got lucky and found a big roll of it at a thrift shop for five bucks. I love it for making up my own patterns too because I can baste the pieces together and get a good idea of how well it is going to work. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:07:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3707tMX023036 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:07:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36N89Ko021762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:08:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36N88q1021271; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36N86q1021256 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [167.142.13.94] (HELO herselftifhj9g) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 298571825 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:08:05 -0500 Message-ID: <01fc01c2fc91$61f4b600$5e0d8ea7@herselftifhj9g> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:08:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* > and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another > copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and > reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy > cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... I had some craft pattern pieces that I was using to make lots of copies of the same pieces. I put fusible interfacing on the back of the tissue and fused muslin to them. That way I can still see all the markings, but the pieces don't tear from pinning, folding, etc. I've seen grid-marked, thin, non-woven material in fabric stores to make patterns from, but I don't like it. It feels weird, it's as thin as tissue (but probably a little stronger) and it doesn't stay put well. Slides and blows around. Denise landofoz@netins.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:09:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3709hMX023053 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:09:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36N9uKo021844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36N9tq1021819; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h36N9qq1021772 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoAD94wgt0EhQqqYESQHtKgjBZPRfr9zlw==">; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:09:30 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HU5AWZ8M; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:09:30 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:02:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Message-ID: <20030406.180257.-239839643.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I buy the fleece backed vinyl they sell for table cloths and make my most useful patterns out of that. It has the benefit of behaving like a fabric (you can fold it up to put it away!), but it won't tear or cut easily like paper. Plus, the fleece backing means that it won't slide around easily so it's nice to cut around. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:15:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h370F2MX023078 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:15:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NFAKo022192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NF9q1023564; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NF2q1023454 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003040623145600300p85n0e>; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:14:56 +0000 Message-ID: <035401c2fc92$5afba060$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:07:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a vogue pattern that I have owned for over 12 years that I am not willing to let die. If vogue would remake it I would buy it in a split second! It is not even in their archives for me to order, sigh. What I have done was just take interfacing, the really cheap 4 for a dollar non-fusible stuff and traced out my old pattern on it. I have done this at least 4 times. I am about to do it again cause I lost the cuffs and have to make those. I have tried to make those from memory before and made them way too small to fit hubby, (it is a ladies artist tunic with really cool collar pleating that looks like something from the Elizabethan era, the cuffs match). Anyhow, the cuffs are my bane, I will have to look at my costuming books to see if I can find a cuff that will work this time since I do not even have the bits of the original pattern and he likes only this pattern. Never mind that I have Margo's nifty men's pattern, no, he wants his old shirt, nothing else will appease him, *rolls eyes*, men. Anyhow, use non-fusible interfacing, they now have it with a grid, the last pretty long unless you use them once a quarter like I do. :) Ches ----- Original Message ----- From: "fastusminimus" To: Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] Pattern material > Hi > I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* > and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another > copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and > reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy > cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... > > Thanks > Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h370PLMX023115 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NPSKo022854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NPRq1028180; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:25:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NPPq1028166 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7307A9D8 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 76786-02 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-179.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.179]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DDEA7A9E9 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:25:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <035401c2fc92$5afba060$31baee0c@c59303a> Message-Id: <04DA27BD-6887-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO if you like it that much, you should get some tagboard and cut it out of that - that's what apparel companies do for long term pattern use. tagboard is the same weight and material that manila folders are made out of. On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at 04:07 PM, chiara wrote: > There is a vogue pattern that I have owned for over 12 years that I am > not > willing to let die. If vogue would remake it I would buy it in a split > second! It is not even in their archives for me to order, sigh. > > What I have done was just take interfacing, the really cheap 4 for a > dollar > non-fusible stuff and traced out my old pattern on it. I have done > this at > least 4 times. I am about to do it again cause I lost the cuffs and > have to > make those. I have tried to make those from memory before and made > them way > too small to fit hubby, (it is a ladies artist tunic with really cool > collar > pleating that looks like something from the Elizabethan era, the cuffs > match). Anyhow, the cuffs are my bane, I will have to look at my > costuming > books to see if I can find a cuff that will work this time since I do > not > even have the bits of the original pattern and he likes only this > pattern. > Never mind that I have Margo's nifty men's pattern, no, he wants his > old > shirt, nothing else will appease him, *rolls eyes*, men. > > Anyhow, use non-fusible interfacing, they now have it with a grid, the > last > pretty long unless you use them once a quarter like I do. :) > > Ches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "fastusminimus" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:50 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Pattern material > > >> Hi >> I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* >> and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another >> copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and >> reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy >> cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... >> >> Thanks >> Carol >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:43:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h370hSMX023165 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:43:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NhUKo023897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:43:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NhTq1003965; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NhQq1003952 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0191.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.191] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192JnI-0006EY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:43:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3E90D7B2.8F580550@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:43:17 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver References: <001b01c2fc6c$07c7d740$f31277d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > I don't know if tinsel containing copper is still considered a "cloth of gold or silver" being an >imitation thereof. Tissue and bodkin retain their status, so this could be why Earls could wear a cloth > of gold of "tissue" and a baron could have a "cloth of gold" that might be of metal, but not really > gold. Just speculation. I've come across quite a few derogatory comments about garments using copper > for their embellishment, especially theatrical garments. I've been putting all the costume references from Henslowe's Diary into a database. (Henslowe ran a theatre in late-16th-c. England.) Some are references to clothing bought for costume use, and some are listings of clothing he took in pawn for loans. I haven't found any that refer to copper cloth of gold or silver, but there are a few with copper. If something in the original text is in brackets, it was crossed out. If it is in parentheses, it was a superscript character. 1. Layd owte for cop(r) lace for the littell boye & for a valle for the boye A geanste the playe of dido & enevs the 3 of Jenewary 1597 xxix s [my translation: laid out for copper lace for the little boy and a veil for the boy against the play of Dido and Aeneas the 3rd of January, 1597: 29 shillings] 2. lent vnto Robart shawe to by cop(r) lace of sylver for a payer hosse in alls perce the 10 of desemb3 1597...xvj s [lent to Robert Shawe to buy copper lace of silver for a pair of hose in Alice Pierce [a play] the 10th of December, 1597: 16 shillings] 3. Bowght the 18 of ap(r)ell 1598 xvj ownces of copelace brad w(th) sylver & gowld cop at vjij d ownce...x s viij d [Bought the 18th of April, 1598, 16 ounces of copper lace braid with silver and gold copper at 8 pence an ounce: 10 shillings, 8 pence] (Does that add up? I'm not familiar with the lsd system.) 4. lent vnto Robart shawe for to by cop lace of [gowe] sylver to lace a payer of hosse for alles perce the 10 of desemb3 1597 the some of xvj s [lent to Robert Shaw to buy copper lace of [gold crossed out] silver to lace a pair of hose for Alice Pierce [a play] the 10th of December, 1597, the sum of 16 shillings] Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:44:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h370i5MX023171 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:44:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NiJKo024007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NiIq1004239; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NiAq1004200 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0191.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.191] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Jo1-0007I6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:44:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3E90D7DF.744CF6C4@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:44:02 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress References: <1c3.7b3bd3c.2bc03e7a@aol.com> <3E907E66.5AA7CC43@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > > I've seen pictures of an extant supportasse made of wire, wrapped in > thread (I think). If my tax-stressed brain is remembering correctly, I > think it's in one of the photocopied articles I've got that Janet Arnold > wrote for Kostum...something, something german. > --sue, subsiding back into paperwork..... It's in the article I was going on about earlier: Three examples of late sixteenth and early seventeenth century neckwear, by Janet Arnold, in Waffen-und Kostumkunde, 1973, volume 15, pp. 109-124 "A specimen survives in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum, with the lace still tacked to the supportasse, which is made of metal, probably iron, bound with sea-green silk (Plates 15 and 16). Round this is twisted a thin gold strip so that the struts have a striped effect. They are bound together at the intersections with fine gold wire (Plate 18)." It's very pretty, as the wire has been bent into decorative floral shapes in the spaces between the structural struts. This was a supportasse for a flat lace collar (like in the Queen Anne dress), not a ruff. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 20:48:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h370mVMX023203 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:48:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NhhKo023918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36Nhgq1004054; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:43:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h36NhWq1003994 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0191.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.191] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192JnP-0006On-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:43:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3E90D7B9.71FDCB3B@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:43:25 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > > I would also suggest that velvet might be a better choice than satin > for your appliques. Most modern satins seem to me to be too shiny to > look right. How about "duchess" satin? It is available online in silk (though it's expensive), and it has a much gentler sheen than poly bridal satin. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 21:53:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h371rvMX023552 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:53:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h370rlKo028188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h370rjH3028581; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:53:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h370rhH3028535 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m150.in-tch.com [216.166.191.150]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h370Zx927988 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E90CC57.48CFD01D@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:54:47 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use 10-oz. canvas for a lot of them (I used to work at a tent and tipi manufacturers, and could get remnants *really cheaply*!). Or I use a type of pattern paper very similar to the paper used to make manila folders. I imagine you could also use clear vinyl or something.... --sue Carol asked: > > Hi > I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* > and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another > copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and > reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy > cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 22:27:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h372RIMX023717 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:27:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371RTKo000251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371RQDx008927; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcnstx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371RODx008915 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:27:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-35-96.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.35.96])h371RMXZ014938 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:27:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030406181703.05046a80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:20:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material In-Reply-To: <3E90CC57.48CFD01D@in-tch.com> References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I imagine you could also use clear vinyl or something.... I use Archeitchts' tracing mylar. This is only because I was able to salvage a couple of rolls of the stuff. It's really tough, and takes pencil lines or pen lines very well, but it can't be folded and must be rolled, which takes up lots of space. It's also quite difficult to pin it, and I have to use masking tape to hold pieces of it together, or pattern weights to hold it onto the cloth while I'm cutting. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 22:33:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h372XbMX023737 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:33:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371XmKo000585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371XmDx011205; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371XiDx011197 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:33:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCY00MLX9O6GT@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:29:54 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel In-reply-to: <002001c2fc63$6fc77660$5d0f77d8@pavilion> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406182750.02cc75c8@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405201640.02ce9c78@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:37 AM 4/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Note-this long email contains definitions for various types of cloth of gold >and the 1597 English Statue and Proclamations of Apparel Hi Lisa What a great amount of material you have given us. Thank you very much. You should post this on your web site or someplace for others to be able to learn from, if permissible. I will be making a printed copy to give to our guild, so others can learn from it as well. Thank you so much again! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 22:37:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h372b7MX023749 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:37:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371bKKo000735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371bJDx012485; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371bHDx012469 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCY00M8B9U3GO@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:33:29 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver In-reply-to: <3E90D7B2.8F580550@faucet.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406183215.02cc75c8@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <001b01c2fc6c$07c7d740$f31277d8@pavilion> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:43 PM 4/6/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I've been putting all the costume references from Henslowe's Diary into >a database. (Henslowe ran a theatre in late-16th-c. England.) Some are >references to clothing bought for costume use, and some are listings of >clothing he took in pawn for loans. Thank you Melanie, for sharing this with us. I have to say I am amazed at your (and others) ability to translate the older languages with such clarity. I would have been lost. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 22:40:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h372eAMX023760 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:40:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371e6Ko000892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371e5Dx013540; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371dtDx013480 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12806 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2003 01:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.239.220]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2003 01:39:54 -0000 Message-ID: <009501c2fca6$96764820$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:39:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The patterns that I use for "production" work (ones that get over 100 pieces a year made from them) I cut from quilters "template plastic" -- see, those quilt stores are useful for SOMETHING. You can buy it in fairly large sheets- I got mine from the Wright's outlet store (11"x14" sheets for 55 cents each). Not only can you draw on it (with just about anything), it cuts with scissors, but the rotary cutter takes a bit of effort to cut it. Another bonus is that it is clear, and therefore easier to match patterns (in fabric). Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message ----- From: "fastusminimus" To: Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] Pattern material > Hi > I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* > and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another > copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and > reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy > cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... > > Thanks > Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 22:48:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h372mvMX023776 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:48:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371n7Ko001457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371n6Dx018072; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371n4Dx018060 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-000-202.jps.net ([216.119.0.202] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Lkt-0007GR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:49:04 -0700 Message-ID: <004d01c2fca9$7b4fdfe0$ca0077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001b01c2fc6c$07c7d740$f31277d8@pavilion> <3E90D7B2.8F580550@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:00:35 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, it was from Henslowe's diary that I came across the copper embellishments too. Today was the first time I looked at the definitions for "Cloth of Gold or Silver" so I will keep my eye out for tinsel now. It could be simply that "Tissue" was the most valued of the "cloths of gold" and perhaps Bodkin or Tinsel made of gold would still be acceptable for baron. A baron probably wouldn't be caught dead in copper embellished cloth. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Schuessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > > I don't know if tinsel containing copper is still considered a "cloth of gold or silver" being an > >imitation thereof. Tissue and bodkin retain their status, so this > could be why Earls could wear a cloth > > of gold of "tissue" and a baron could have a "cloth of gold" that might be of metal, but not really > > gold. Just speculation. I've come across quite a few derogatory comments about garments using copper > > for their embellishment, especially theatrical garments. > > I've been putting all the costume references from Henslowe's Diary into > a database. (Henslowe ran a theatre in late-16th-c. England.) Some are > references to clothing bought for costume use, and some are listings of > clothing he took in pawn for loans. I haven't found any that refer to > copper cloth of gold or silver, but there are a few with copper. If > something in the original text is in brackets, it was crossed out. If > it is in parentheses, it was a superscript character. > > 1. Layd owte for cop(r) lace for the littell boye & for a valle for the > boye A > geanste the playe of dido & enevs the 3 of Jenewary 1597 xxix s > > [my translation: laid out for copper lace for the little boy and a veil > for the boy against the play of Dido and Aeneas the 3rd of January, > 1597: 29 shillings] > > 2. lent vnto Robart shawe to by cop(r) lace of sylver for > a payer hosse in alls perce the 10 of desemb3 1597...xvj s > > [lent to Robert Shawe to buy copper lace of silver for a pair of hose in > Alice Pierce [a play] the 10th of December, 1597: 16 shillings] > > 3. Bowght the 18 of ap(r)ell 1598 xvj ownces of copelace > brad w(th) sylver & gowld cop at vjij d ownce...x s viij d > > [Bought the 18th of April, 1598, 16 ounces of copper lace braid with > silver and gold copper at 8 pence an ounce: 10 shillings, 8 pence] > (Does that add up? I'm not familiar with the lsd system.) > > 4. lent vnto Robart shawe for to by cop lace > of [gowe] sylver to lace a payer of hosse for alles perce > the 10 of desemb3 1597 the some of xvj s > > [lent to Robert Shaw to buy copper lace of [gold crossed out] silver to > lace a pair of hose for Alice Pierce [a play] the 10th of December, > 1597, the sum of 16 shillings] > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 22:59:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h372xiMX023823 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:59:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371xiKo001954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371xZJ9022786; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:59:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h371xVJ9022744 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-000-202.jps.net ([216.119.0.202] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Lv0-0007VX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:59:30 -0700 Message-ID: <008a01c2fcaa$f1257940$ca0077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405201640.02ce9c78@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030406182750.02cc75c8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:11:02 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're most welcome Kimiko. I'm glad you asked the question. I rather enjoy digging up info. I'm working very hard on my website and hope to have info on a starch house up by the end of June. Next I might start on the Frippers page. I'd be including the related proclamations. I'd love to post the whole Linthicum book, but it's still under copyright, but just barely, so I'll find some other way to incorporate the info. Cheers, Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel > At 10:37 AM 4/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >Note-this long email contains definitions for various types of cloth of gold > >and the 1597 English Statue and Proclamations of Apparel > > > Hi Lisa > > What a great amount of material you have given us. Thank you very much. You > should post this on your web site or someplace for others to be able to > learn from, if permissible. > > I will be making a printed copy to give to our guild, so others can learn > from it as well. > > Thank you so much again! > > Kimiko > > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 23:16:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h373GPMX024038 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:16:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h372GTKo002767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h372GQJ9028657; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h372GMJ9028621 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty4087.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.87]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h372GNNX019236 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:16:26 -0400 Message-ID: <3E90DED4.984341C2@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 22:13:40 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405201640.02ce9c78@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. This illustrates precisely the difference between Historical costuming for Renfaires and other aspects. In the US, Renfaires are theatrical events held in (generally) the good weather months. Woolens are, therefore, although historically accurate for the period, discouraged. Also, the average performer at such events could hardly be expected to afford the real materials that were used for the clothing of the period, such as silk brocades and velvets. This gets back to a previous discussion regarding using UK reenactors for TV appearances. You will occasionally see film clips of Renfaire folk in some TV in the US, but mostly, the educational channels use either UK folks or reenactors from the US with authentic gear. This, of course, gets expensive (both the gear and the filming). I can see how some folks would begin to feel a little used after having put out massive funds for extremely accurate kit, and be offered little to nothing in the way of compensation. Although many Faires are increasingly bettering their clothing standards, they are still in the range of Theatrical costuming moreso than historic recreation of the sort seen in many of the reenactment groups. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 6 23:45:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h373jIMX024180 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:45:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h372jTKo004775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h372jSJ9008952; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h372jNJ9008868 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty4087.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.87]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h372jQNX020162 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:45:27 -0400 Message-ID: <3E90E5BA.6C24DC69@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 22:43:07 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver References: <001b01c2fc6c$07c7d740$f31277d8@pavilion> <3E90D7B2.8F580550@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. It seems from your entries that "copper lace" might have been a copper alloy with either gold or silver coloring. This would allow more inexpensive materials to pass for the "real thing". Perhaps the alloy was either rolled out into foil and wrapped on the silk, or the precious metals were plated in some way onto the base metal (mercury gilding or the like). Any of our jewelry or metallurgist specialists care to speculate on these? Curious, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 00:08:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37489MX024243 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:08:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3738JKo006142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3738JsW016447; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3738HsW016433 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:08:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCY0008KE1R8L@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:03:31 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel In-reply-to: <3E90DED4.984341C2@dandy.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406192015.02c53360@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405094925.02d01ff0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405151146.02d0e008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030405201640.02ce9c78@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Mike T. At 10:13 PM 4/6/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hi. This illustrates precisely the difference between Historical costuming for >Renfaires and other aspects. In the US, Renfaires are theatrical events >held in >(generally) the good weather months. Woolens are, therefore, although >historically accurate for the period, discouraged. {steps onto a soap box.} Having performed at small California Ren Faires for over 10 years, I have to disagree in some aspects of this comment. Yes, the faires are done during the hot weather months, in my area from March until November, when it gets rainy. Some faires I have attended have snowed, such as in South Lake Tahoe in June, when it is either sunny or sometimes snowing. That was a magical year when it snowed, even if there were little costumers to play to. I used to participate as a Scot, and my clothing is normally wool. Wool plaides/kilts/arasaids, wool dresses, wool cloaks, and linen (or cotton or silk) leines. So, dressing in wool during the summer is normal for me. If I could use cotton more often, I would and do. But cotton for nobles just doesn't look right, unless it is cotton velveteen. There is debate as to whether it is better to use cotton velveteen or silk/rayon velvet for nobles dresses. I prefer cotton as it is cheaper and holds up to wear ok. Silk/Rayon, while beautiful, is too expensive to put through the wringer of faire abuse. There is also debate I have heard about how it is too "shiny" to use for the time period. I still plan on making a garment with it sometime soon, however. >Also, the average performer at >such events could hardly be expected to afford the real materials that >were used >for the clothing of the period, such as silk brocades and velvets. That I can understand. Most people play peasants because it is much cheaper to put an outfit together using cotton, and it is cooler as well. Many faire performers don't care if their outfit is "period" or not, so long as it passes muster, which varies from group to group, or faire to faire. The nobles in many groups I have played with usually spend great sums of money to create as rich and expensive a nobles outfit as they can afford. And with some of them living in the Los Angeles area with the great fabric warehouse district, that is a lot of wonderful materials available at a decent budget. >This gets back >to a previous discussion regarding using UK reenactors for TV appearances. You >will occasionally see film clips of Renfaire folk in some TV in the US, but >mostly, the educational channels use either UK folks or reenactors from the US >with authentic gear. The Discovery Channel program on the Knight was on last Sunday. I looked hard for credits, figuring it was some re-enactment group in Britain, but no credits were noted. I still wonder who they were, because I loved their garb. I have no idea how accurate they were however, as that isn't my time period. But as to who they use, I would not be surprised if they were re-enactors for the most part. Our local Civil War groups are as accurate as possible, while some faire people do tend to follow a theatrical look, with many exceptions. >This, of course, gets expensive (both the gear and the >filming). I can see how some folks would begin to feel a little used after >having >put out massive funds for extremely accurate kit, and be offered little to >nothing in the way of compensation. We do faires for free, for the most part. Some groups get payment, but that funds guild activities, and not the individual's costuming needs. Hence why many groups do Not for Profit status, so they can write off some of the costs. But many of the actors and guilds I know enjoy performing for TV crews, mainly as promotion of upcoming faires or other advertisement. >Although many Faires are increasingly >bettering their clothing standards, they are still in the range of Theatrical >costuming moreso than historic recreation of the sort seen in many of the >reenactment groups. I both agree and disagree. I have seen some faire people go to great lengths to be as historically accurate as current information allows, and I have seen some SCA re-enactors wear the most basic and inaccurate of costumes (they are my friends, so I can comment). I think it depends on the person as to how authentic they want to be. I do believe that some people in faire wear certain outfits because it is "cool" to wear them, such as the influx of Celts wearing huge sleeved leines (which I was guilty of before I knew better) or the rise of Ottoman actors wearing modern bellydancing garb. Then the argument over great kilts, to wear or not to wear them for 16th c. personas. My group wore them to distinguish us from the Irish, but I know another group who do not wear kilts at all anymore (but they used to.) But many of faire people do create and wear garments that they know will be under close scrutiny by the audience. When customers are standing next to you, they get to see everything you are wearing, or not. This is different than true theatre, where you can do odd things to costumes to get it to "look right" at a distance. Like bumpy plastic beads on a Tudor sleeve to give it sparkle. I saw that on an old theater costume that was for sale. I never would put that on a gown used at Faire. I think there is a spectrum of accuracy in faire, in costume and in performers. Some are there for the fun of it, some to provide history lessons, and others to entertain. I personally want to improve my knowledge of historical costumes so I can improve the costumes I create for faire people. As much as possible, I want the costumed actors to look like they stepped out of a painting. I have seen some faire garb that do just that. But it all depends on the person. Time to step off my soap box. Thanks for your time. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 00:08:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3748DMX024247 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3737GKo006064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3737GsW015998; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3737DsW015946 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net (182.newark-07rh15rt.nj.dial-access.att.net[12.89.172.182]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2003040703070711300a0mpre>; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 03:07:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3E90ED2F.55816B00@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:14:56 -0400 From: Justine Magill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend uses clear shower curtains she gets at the dollar store.... works good. Jenne Talia wrote: > Non-fusible interfacing. Works great. > > Talia > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 00:10:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h374AYMX024256 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:10:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373AkKo006278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:10:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373AjsW017334; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373AhsW017324 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCY000C3E5U8L@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:06:34 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress In-reply-to: <3E90ECAB.D662C412@worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406200519.02c53360@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <1c3.7b3bd3c.2bc03e7a@aol.com> <3E907E66.5AA7CC43@in-tch.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:12 PM 4/6/2003 -0400, you wrote: >If you are doing only your own taxes, :-), I have little >sympathy! LOL You could >have my job... I do everyones! The joy of working for a CPA... 60 hr >workweeks, >minimum... (sigh) (April 6th and counting) > >Jenne And that is why I quit being an Accountant. I hate tax season. Now I get a grumpy teething baby, and some time for costuming work, which is my passion. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 00:12:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h374CXMX024266 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373CJKo006390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373CJsW017785; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373CHsX017765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h373CHJa017763 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:12:16 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Message-ID: <20030407031216.GE13419@net.indra.com> References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just use the cheapest cloth I can find, which is usually $1/yd or less. I can fold up the patterns and keep them in envelopes, but when I lay them out I don't generally need pins or weights as the friction holds it well. ...eliz -- You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 00:17:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h374H9MX024286 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:17:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373HEKo006626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373HDsW019228; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373H9sW019167 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp11.directcon.net [209.79.209.11] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h373N6315133; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:23:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030406201833.0082ead0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:18:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies In-Reply-To: <005201c2fc09$eede0c70$18a231d2@valadan> References: <000001c2fb4a$7904e1f0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <000e01c2fb92$5d2ca880$981077d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Titanic was the biggest one concerned and it was the sex seen in the car >that was removed > Much as I despise censorship, I actually agree with this editing for artistic reasons. The sex in the car scene seemed totally gratuitous to me, and lessened the poignancy of the ending. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 00:29:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h374TlMX024327 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:29:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373U0Ko007217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373U0sW023547; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h373TvsW023497 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a25.in-tch.com [66.62.107.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h373CC913472 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E90F0F4.F0886CC1@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 21:31:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress References: <1c3.7b3bd3c.2bc03e7a@aol.com> <3E907E66.5AA7CC43@in-tch.com> <3E90ECAB.D662C412@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, no, not just my own, strictly. I've also got the entire 2002 books for my local SCA group, which I inherited because I'm the only one who can get them done and forwarded on to Kingdom before the Great Tax Day of Doom. So please, sympathize away! I have to file a 1040 form for the first time ever this year, because of money and property I inherited, so I am *SO* not looking forward to it! I have a job that occasionally generates obscene amounts of overtime, too, but it's more reflective of the school year than the tax/business cycle. OCC: I don't remember seeing a supportasse in the V&A, but then, I only had a few hours there, and that was pretty much spent frantically photographing things in the textile rooms. I do remember seeing, however, two metal frameworks for english gable headresses at the MoL. --sue, going back to ironing (blech...housework as a break from paperwork....) Justine Magill wrote: > > I think I know the article you mean, but my brain is not coming up with it.... > Isn't there one in the V&A? I am very fuzzy brained right now due to my own > extreme tax stress and cannot recall clearly where I saw one.... > > If you are doing only your own taxes, :-), I have little sympathy! LOL You could > have my job... I do everyones! The joy of working for a CPA... 60 hr workweeks, > minimum... (sigh) (April 6th and counting) > > Jenne > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > I've seen pictures of an extant supportasse made of wire, wrapped in > > thread (I think). If my tax-stressed brain is remembering correctly, I > > think it's in one of the photocopied articles I've got that Janet Arnold > > wrote for Kostum...something, something german. > > --sue, subsiding back into paperwork..... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 00:40:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h374ecMX024383 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:40:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37355Ko005923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37354sW015203; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37351sW015181 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net (182.newark-07rh15rt.nj.dial-access.att.net[12.89.172.182]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2003040703045511300a5c4qe>; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 03:04:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3E90ECAB.D662C412@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:12:43 -0400 From: Justine Magill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress References: <1c3.7b3bd3c.2bc03e7a@aol.com> <3E907E66.5AA7CC43@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I know the article you mean, but my brain is not coming up with it.... Isn't there one in the V&A? I am very fuzzy brained right now due to my own extreme tax stress and cannot recall clearly where I saw one.... If you are doing only your own taxes, :-), I have little sympathy! LOL You could have my job... I do everyones! The joy of working for a CPA... 60 hr workweeks, minimum... (sigh) (April 6th and counting) Jenne Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've seen pictures of an extant supportasse made of wire, wrapped in > thread (I think). If my tax-stressed brain is remembering correctly, I > think it's in one of the photocopied articles I've got that Janet Arnold > wrote for Kostum...something, something german. > --sue, subsiding back into paperwork..... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 03:55:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h377toMX013834 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 03:55:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h376smKo019523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h376skcN003923; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h376sgcN003914 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p27-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.27] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 192QWd-0007fq-00; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:54:39 +1200 Message-ID: <000101c2fcd2$8c738d70$1bc0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304060316.h363GQ7P014036@net.indra.com> <009501c2fca6$96764820$01fea8c0@livingroom> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:57:52 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've used something very similar to the text I quoted below. I used to work for a magazine and every month was apalled at the waste of plastic. The magazine still used film and ads could be either digital or on film. The magaine pages were not really salvageable.. well they could but it would have text all over it, but the film that the copy was taped to was wonderful. Quite thick, sturdy and clear. I drew in permanent marker the pattern pieces and then cut out with scissors. Those patterns are wonderful to use, and really handy as you can lay out the pieces and match up the fabric pattern if so needed:) heheh, I used to have to go through the film each month to pull out all the copy... and keep up the copy library... sigh... not fun when the competiting magazines were in production at about the same time and wouldn't release it... And then there was the time the advertising manager booked a single page and a double page spread for a big company when no such deal had happened... and I had to do the calls and fix it...sigh. I enjoyed the work admittedly;) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume > The patterns that I use for "production" work (ones that get over 100 pieces > a year made from them) I cut from quilters "template plastic" -- see, those > quilt stores are useful for SOMETHING. > You can buy it in fairly large sheets- I got mine from the Wright's outlet > store (11"x14" sheets for 55 cents each). Not only can you draw on it (with > just about anything), it cuts with scissors, but the rotary cutter takes a > bit of effort to cut it. > Another bonus is that it is clear, and therefore easier to match patterns > (in fabric). > Lyn Greaves > Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton > COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 05:23:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h379NlMX027863 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 05:23:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378NwKo028561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378NviR004475; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378NriR004430 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h378Nqp27451.; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:23:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:23:52 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:23:46 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h378NriR004430 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Actually, I heard on the news last week that there is a company that >takes regular movies and re-edits them to remove the violence, sex, etc >and then sells the finished product as suitable for all ages. IIRC they >have at least the knowledge if not the approval of the movie companies >to do this. The story said that some movies can't be done, because once >all the sex and violence are removed there is not enough left to hold a >movie together! Reminds me of Lamb's "Tales from Shakespeare". Charles and Mary Lamb retold for children the stories of all his non-historical plays, of course omitting any sexual elements - but in the case of "Measure for Measure", that would have left no story to tell, so they just had to word their version as tactfully as possible. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 05:26:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h379QmMX029439 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 05:26:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378R3Ko028691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378R2iR005361; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378R0iR005338 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h378Qxp27645.; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:26:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:26:58 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:26:20 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h378R0iR005338 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > An amusing story -- someone from my >guild was transferred by his company to England for three years, and >he took his Elizabethan clothing with him. He says he quickly >discovered _why_ the Elizabethans wore all those layers of wool -- >his comment was "It gets bloody COLD over there!" And, of course, probably got colder still in the 16th century. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 05:30:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h379UOMX031484 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 05:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378UeKo028848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378UdiR006589; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h378UbiR006560 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h378Uap27989.; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:30:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:30:36 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:30:21 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h378UbiR006560 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> 3. Bowght the 18 of ap(r)ell 1598 xvj ownces of copelace >brad w(th) sylver & gowld cop at vjij d ownce...x s viij d >[Bought the 18th of April, 1598, 16 ounces of copper lace braid with >silver and gold copper at 8 pence an ounce: 10 shillings, 8 pence] >(Does that add up? I'm not familiar with the lsd system.) Yes, it does. Twelve pence to the shilling, so 128 pence is 10/8d. Henslowe figures in "Shakespeare in Love", doesn't he? I didn't know his diaries were still extant. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 06:25:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37APsMX008349 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h379PkKo001592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 03:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h379Pjho018207; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 03:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h379Pgho018193 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 03:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.227.126.223] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 192Sso-0005iH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 11:25:42 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 192Ssn-0002av-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 11:25:41 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030407095835.023eba98@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:04:12 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Off Topic In-Reply-To: <005b01c2fb0e$1fe17b60$15d2adcb@michaela> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030404142742.023cda28@pop.oneandone.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:55 05/04/2003 +1200, you wrote: >Nope, same situcation as dvd players for the tv. As in some will allow you >to to play multi regional but mine will only allow 4 changes. That's not 4 >regions, more like 1, 2, 1, 2 and from then on it will only play 2. There is a way round that, in that you can update the internal DVD drive software (otherwise known as 'firmware') to a region free version. In the case of DVD players that on the face of things are region fixed, you can frequently change that using the remote control. Take a look at http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdhacks and see if your DVD player is listed, if it is there will also be a hack to change region or make it region free. If anyone wants more info please email me off list. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:09:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37D9LMX008978 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37C9VKo009744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:09:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37C9SQQ016601; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37C9QQQ016584 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-27.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.27] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192VRF-0004pi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 05:09:25 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 05:20:54 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Henslowe's diary is in print in a couple of versions. A large (very) facsimile version, hand written of course and edited by R. A. Foakes printed in 1977 and a version in typeface edited by R. A. Foakes & R. T. Rickert including supplementary material printed in 1961. I came across it in my search for info on starch as Henslowe had a starch making operation and was chuffed to find that his initial financial and logistical arrangements for the operation included "grownd to keppe hogge". This was consistent with my other findings that starch makers had complementary businesses raising pigs which could eat the fermented bran, a waste produce of starch making. The book is loaded with garment descriptions and other items pawned or used for theatrical costumes. An overlooked source for costumers!!!! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > Melanie wrote: > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> 3. Bowght the 18 of ap(r)ell 1598 xvj ownces of copelace > >brad w(th) sylver & gowld cop at vjij d ownce...x s viij d > > >[Bought the 18th of April, 1598, 16 ounces of copper lace braid with > >silver and gold copper at 8 pence an ounce: 10 shillings, 8 pence] > >(Does that add up? I'm not familiar with the lsd system.) > > Yes, it does. Twelve pence to the shilling, so 128 pence is 10/8d. > > Henslowe figures in "Shakespeare in Love", doesn't he? I didn't know his diaries were still extant. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:16:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DGIMX009001 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:16:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CGWKo010157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:16:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CGVQQ018788; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:16:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail5.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CGTQR018779 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h37CGSOG026121 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:16:29 -0400 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.41.169]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 07:16:28 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:16:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Rcpt-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pattern Material X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have ironed my favorite patterns - yes, the original tissue pieces - to fusible interfacing. It saves me the time of having to transfer the marks and it holds up pretty well. Additional note - sturdier patterns take up more space and I've found that gallon-size Ziploc bags are excellent for holding the original pattern folder/instructions and the permanent pattern pieces. Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:21:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DLQMX009018 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:21:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CLdKo010417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CLdQQ020651; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:21:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CLaQQ020618 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout10.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCZ00LLP3NTRR@mtaout10.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:21:06 -0400 From: Brenda Bell X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407075832.06350e80@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Wool in Modern American Clothing (WAS: Re: Surcoat fabric) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy Raymond responded to Heather Meadows: >On Saturday 05 April 2003 01:29 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > > actually, a lot of people don't wear wool, or only have a sweater or > > two out of it. Most people I know stick to cottons for everyday wear - > > I have to search long and hard to find good wool clothes casual enough > > for everyday. > >A lot of Americans don't wear wool much. Cotton, on the other hand, in a >wide >variety of forms, is ubiquitous. Which may have something to do with our cotton industry and cotton export industry? >It's easy enough to find wool sweaters that are casual, but you're >right--most >other wool clothing is more formal. Suits, nice pants, or dresses not meant >for everyday. That depends on where you live, and the environment in which you work. While many offices have changed their dress codes to "business casual", many others have not. Most men in white-collar jobs still wear wool or wool-blend suits year-round. I still wear lined wool slacks to work on the coldest days of the year, and wool blazers as fall/spring jackets (I work in a shirts-and-chinos environment). When I'm in a cooler environment (the apartment gets quite chilly of a cold winter), you can bet I'm wearing wool or wool-blend sweaters and longjohns. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:21:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DLrMX009021 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:21:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CM6Ko010446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CM5QQ020807; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CM3QQ020792 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-27.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.27] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192VdS-0000Mx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 05:22:03 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c2fd01$e8a95000$1b0e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 05:33:34 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO oh, yes.......Jeffrey (Goeffrey?) Rush played Henslowe in Shakespeare in Love. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:20 AM Subject: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > Henslowe's diary is in print in a couple of versions. A large (very) > facsimile version, hand written of course and edited by R. A. Foakes printed > in 1977 and a version in typeface edited by R. A. Foakes & R. T. Rickert > including supplementary material printed in 1961. I came across it in my > search for info on starch as Henslowe had a starch making operation and was > chuffed to find that his initial financial and logistical arrangements for > the operation included "grownd to keppe hogge". This was consistent with my > other findings that starch makers had complementary businesses raising pigs > which could eat the fermented bran, a waste produce of starch making. The > book is loaded with garment descriptions and other items pawned or used for > theatrical costumes. An overlooked source for costumers!!!! > > Lisa > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate M Bunting" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 1:30 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > > > > Melanie wrote: > > > > Kate Bunting > > Library, University of Derby > > > > >>> 3. Bowght the 18 of ap(r)ell 1598 xvj ownces of copelace > > >brad w(th) sylver & gowld cop at vjij d ownce...x s viij d > > > > >[Bought the 18th of April, 1598, 16 ounces of copper lace braid with > > >silver and gold copper at 8 pence an ounce: 10 shillings, 8 pence] > > >(Does that add up? I'm not familiar with the lsd system.) > > > > Yes, it does. Twelve pence to the shilling, so 128 pence is 10/8d. > > > > Henslowe figures in "Shakespeare in Love", doesn't he? I didn't know his > diaries were still extant. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:30:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DUaMX009047 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:30:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CUnKo010884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CUkQQ023640; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:30:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CUgQQ023626 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-021scfairp0216.dialsprint.net ([65.179.16.216] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Vlp-0005T6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 05:30:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3E918B86.EB82A253@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:30:33 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > > >[Bought the 18th of April, 1598, 16 ounces of copper lace braid with > >silver and gold copper at 8 pence an ounce: 10 shillings, 8 pence] > >(Does that add up? I'm not familiar with the lsd system.) > > Yes, it does. Twelve pence to the shilling, so 128 pence is 10/8d. Oh, thanks! Now, if you'll tell me how many shillings to the pound, I'll be set! > Henslowe figures in "Shakespeare in Love", doesn't he? I didn't know his diaries were still extant. His "diary" is really an accounts book rather than a narrative, but as Lisa mentioned, it has all sorts of wonderful details in it (though of course not nearly as many as we'd LIKE to have!). It runs from roughly 1593-1604. I have the second edition of the 1961 (typeface) version, which came out in 2002. While I am getting pretty good at reading 16th-century English (read enough Chaucer, and Henslowe is clear as a bell!), the actual handwriting would probably defeat me. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:33:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DXjMX009060 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CXuKo011092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CXuQQ024558; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CXsQQ024550 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-021scfairp0216.dialsprint.net ([65.179.16.216] helo=faucet.net) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192Vov-00029B-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 05:33:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3E918C46.F2C175BA@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:33:45 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > Henslowe's diary is in print in a couple of versions.<...>I came across it in my > search for info on starch as Henslowe had a starch making operation and was > chuffed to find that his initial financial and logistical arrangements for > the operation included "grownd to keppe hogge". This was consistent with my > other findings that starch makers had complementary businesses raising pigs > which could eat the fermented bran, a waste produce of starch making. That is fascinating, Lisa! I can't wait to see your page when it's ready. I have been scanning for costuming info, but I'll have to go back and look into the starch business. > The book is loaded with garment descriptions and other items pawned or used for > theatrical costumes. An overlooked source for costumers!!!! No doubt! I just wish there was a little more to each entry--telling me that he bought a white satin doublet for Mr. Jonnes just whets my appetite! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:35:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DZqMX009077 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:35:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Ca5Ko011188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Ca4QQ025101; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Ca2QQ025070 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout08.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCZ002124A914@mtaout08.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:34:34 -0400 From: Brenda Bell Subject: Wired supportasses (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407081200.0449aec8@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie Schuessler responds to Sue Clemenger: > > I've seen pictures of an extant supportasse made of wire, wrapped in > > thread (I think)... >It's in the article I was going on about earlier: >Three examples of late sixteenth and early seventeenth century neckwear, >by Janet Arnold, in Waffen-und Kostumkunde, 1973, volume 15, pp. 109-124 >"A specimen survives in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum, with the lace >still tacked to the supportasse, which is made of metal, probably iron, >bound with sea-green silk (Plates 15 and 16). Round this is twisted a >thin gold strip so that the struts have a striped effect. They are >bound together at the intersections with fine gold wire (Plate 18)." >It's very pretty, as the wire has been bent into decorative floral >shapes in the spaces between the structural struts. This sounds not too unfamiliar. There was a cotton "ruff" (actually a pleated-flat collar) with lace trim in the Metropolitan Museum of Art's "Extreme Beauty" exhibition last fall (unfortunately, it is not in the collection catalogue -- nor is it in the books with their usual listings of acquisitions, nor can it be found in their general database...). The one in the Met (acquisition number 30.135.156) is supposedly from 16th-century Italy. (Where in Italy, and how they're sure it's 16th-Century and cotton, are things I haven't been able to find out... yet?) As I recall (I don't have a copy of it), a sketch of such a supportasse, with identical frame, can be found in Norah Waugh's "The Cut of Men's Clothes 1600-1900" in her example of 1610-1620 (Diagram I. "A" at bottom of page.) The one I saw was not thread-wrapped, but the lengths and wraps of thin wires that appeared to secure the support-wire intersections were extended further down along and around the supporting wires. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DoDMX009119 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:50:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CoOKo011836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CoNQQ029494; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CoKQQ029480 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-27.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.27] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192W4p-0004YG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 05:50:20 -0700 Message-ID: <004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <3E918C46.F2C175BA@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:01:52 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie, The starch entry is on page 244 in the 1961 typeface edition - entry [204]. I'd have a hard time working straight off the fascimilie version too, but using the typeface version and then seeing the fascsimile version works pretty well. I've scanned the fascimile version starch entry and will have it on my web site so people can at least glimpse the original. Then I thought for my fripper's shop I would include the original entries for the pawned wedding rings with their mottos. A searchable Henslowe's diary would be sooooo nice!!!! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Schuessler" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > > Henslowe's diary is in print in a couple of versions.<...>I came across it in my > > search for info on starch as Henslowe had a starch making operation and was > > chuffed to find that his initial financial and logistical arrangements for > > the operation included "grownd to keppe hogge". This was consistent with my > > other findings that starch makers had complementary businesses raising pigs > > which could eat the fermented bran, a waste produce of starch making. > > That is fascinating, Lisa! I can't wait to see your page when it's > ready. I have been scanning for costuming info, but I'll have to go > back and look into the starch business. > > > The book is loaded with garment descriptions and other items pawned or used for > > theatrical costumes. An overlooked source for costumers!!!! > > No doubt! I just wish there was a little more to each entry--telling me > that he bought a white satin doublet for Mr. Jonnes just whets my appetite! > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 09:52:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37DqOMX009128 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CqZKo011967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CqYQQ000522; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37CqVQQ000445 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h37CqUp15599.; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:52:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:52:29 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:52:22 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h37CqVQQ000445 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >[Bought the 18th of April, 1598, 16 ounces of copper lace braid with >> >silver and gold copper at 8 pence an ounce: 10 shillings, 8 pence] >> >(Does that add up? I'm not familiar with the lsd system.) >> > Yes, it does. Twelve pence to the shilling, so 128 pence is 10/8d. >Oh, thanks! Now, if you'll tell me how many shillings to the pound, >I'll be set! Twenty. Kate Bunting (feeling old, as I was brought up with the l.s.d. syslem) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 10:22:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37EM3MX009239 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:22:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37DM2Ko013638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37DM0kx011499; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37DLwkx011489 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 33-208.tnt-1.york.supernet.com ([64.41.33.208] helo=[64.41.32.126]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192WZR-0007Di-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:21:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200304071237.h37CaCQS025160@net.indra.com> References: <200304071237.h37CaCQS025160@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:21:48 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: pattern material X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO THANKS!!! I'll be scrounging around to see what is available in the sizes I need. Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 10:52:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37EqaMX009339 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:52:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37DqeKo015654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Dqbkx023741; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37DqWkx023612 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp01-246.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.120.246]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92323BE6A5 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:52:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3E9182F7.9010601@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:53:59 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Dress form X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was working on sleeves for my "wedding dress and I was wondering how I want it to display on a arts and sience competition of the SCA. A dressstand would be nice but would never fit in our car with all the rest of the stuf. Then I got a funny idea. Wouldn't it be nice to have a torso that you can blow up like a balloon? Just put it in your costume and then blow it up to the right size.... And maby a hook on it so you can hang it. I know you can buy them with only the schoulders.... Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 11:16:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37FGLMX009437 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:16:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EGTKo017379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EGQlw003995; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EGNlw003920 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a22.in-tch.com [66.62.107.2]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h37Dwc915266 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E91887A.5ED1E134@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:17:30 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hmmmm....a post-Stubbes project.....hmmmmm ;-) --sue Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > A searchable Henslowe's diary would be sooooo nice!!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 11:24:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37FOYMX009462 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:24:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EMrKo018096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EMqlw007977; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:22:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h37EMnlw007943 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 47570 invoked by uid 1005); 7 Apr 2003 14:22:43 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.137531 secs); 07 Apr 2003 14:22:43 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.137531 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2003 14:22:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:22:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern material In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030406181703.05046a80@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: <20030407102142.B86356-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I use Archeitchts' tracing mylar. This is only because I was able to > salvage a couple of rolls of the stuff. It's really tough, and takes > pencil lines or pen lines very well, but it can't be folded and must be > rolled, which takes up lots of space. It's also quite difficult to pin it, > and I have to use masking tape to hold pieces of it together, or pattern > weights to hold it onto the cloth while I'm cutting. For patterns of tracing mylar or posterboard, I hang them up on a clothing rack rather than roll them. You can get a lot of patterns hung in a quite small area, and it also allows for long skirt/robe patterns to be stored without folding. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 11:45:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37FjfMX009527 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:45:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EjqKo020610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:45:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Ejplw022345; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:45:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Ejnlw022275 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1f1.6072d28 (4552) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:45:42 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:45:42 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/6/2003 11:17:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > Much as I despise censorship, I actually agree with this editing for > artistic reasons. The sex in the car scene seemed totally gratuitous to > me, and lessened the poignancy of the ending. > I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. If you're gonna cut something, cut the plot and just let's see the ship sink. Rose and....what's his name [Leo]?...who cares? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 11:48:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37FmRMX009533 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:48:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EmVKo020891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EmVlw024228; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37EmSlw024163 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1e5.634e9ad (4552) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:48:13 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e5.634e9ad.2bc2e9ad@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:48:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/7/2003 4:27:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: > but in the case of "Measure for Measure", This is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays. I know it has "problems" but it is a great drama. I wish they'd perform it more. I, of course, have it all designed....to look like a Vermeer painting. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 12:04:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37G4bMX009586 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:04:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37F4ZKo022287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37F4YLB004396; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37F4ULB004349 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h37F4Up24309.; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:04:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:04:30 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:04:18 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h37F4ULB004349 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat wrote: >> Much as I despise censorship, I actually agree with this editing for >> artistic reasons. The sex in the car scene seemed totally gratuitous to >> me, and lessened the poignancy of the ending. > >I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever >made. If you're gonna cut something, cut the plot and just let's see the ship >sink. >Rose and....what's his name [Leo]?...who cares? I haven't seen the film, but I heard Martin Jarvis (veteran British TV actor who played a supporting role) say on the radio that there were so many amazing true stories about passengers on the Titanic that he wondered why they'd bothered to invent one. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 12:12:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37GC0MX009614 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:12:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FBxKo022960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FBvLB009057; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:11:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FBtLB008965 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp32.directcon.net [209.79.209.32] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h37FHs309027; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:17:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030407081427.00836ec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:14:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume , H-Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form In-Reply-To: <3E9182F7.9010601@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Wouldn't it be nice to have a torso that you can blow up like a balloon? >Just put it in your costume and then blow it up to the right size.... >And maby a hook on it so you can hang it. >I know you can buy them with only the schoulders.... There is such a thing, at least there used to be 15 years ago when I was working in the bridal business. Maybe a bridal store could order one for you? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 12:27:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37GRlMX009670 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:27:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FReKo024780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FRdLB020067; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f52.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FRZLB019980 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:27:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:27:30 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:27:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:27:29 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2003 15:27:30.0148 (UTC) FILETIME=[33E5F240:01C2FD1A] Subject: [h-cost] Pattern Material X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've had success with the thin plastic table cloths that people use on picnic tables or for parties. It comes in a variety of colors - sometimes can be useful to differentiate different pieces. It's thin and durable enough that I can write on it with a felt tip pen and can fold it up easily. It works great! :) jessica >I need some advice/help. I have several patterns that I use a *lot* >and the newsprint is getting old and raggy--time to re-cut another >copy. What material do y'all use to make patterns that you use and >reuse. For small parts I use something strong like 1/4 luan or heavy >cardboard. This is *not* practical for bigger pieces... > >Thanks >Carol > >------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 12:47:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37Gl7MX009739 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:47:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Fl1Ko026632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Fl0LB003142; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:47:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FhhLB000976 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:43:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.20.22] (a22.denver.dial.dimcom.net [206.124.20.22]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h37FiZ327277; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:44:35 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:42:03 -0600 From: sylvia To: Costumers manifesto , H-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Vintage stores in Southern CA X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will be going to California soon to costume a play which takes place in the 1970s and am going to need to find s few pieces of clothing from that decade. Does anyone who lives in that area know of some good vintage clothing stores there? L.A., Orange County or anywhere in So. CA? Sylvia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 12:47:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37GlSMX009743 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:47:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FlCKo026656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FlBLB003256; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37FjBLB001959 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out002 ([192.168.129.133]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030407154506.UPQC13884.out002.verizon.net@out002> for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:45:06 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:45:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [192.168.129.133] at Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:45:06 -0500 Message-Id: <20030407154506.UPQC13884.out002.verizon.net@out002> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: Kimiko Small > Date: 2003/04/06 Sun PM 11:03:31 EDT > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel > > Hi Mike T. > > At 10:13 PM 4/6/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi. This illustrates precisely the difference between Historical costuming for > >Renfaires and other aspects. In the US, Renfaires are theatrical events > >held in > >(generally) the good weather months. Woolens are, therefore, although > >historically accurate for the period, discouraged. > > Hey Mike, I got to disagree with this generalization. I worked for two Renn Faires in California for 15 years. These were the old LHC faires which started the phenomonon. Not only was I not discouraged from wearing wool, I did wear it. Hot weather or not. My group (Maidenhead's Company of Shot) required it and our "Guild" encouraged it. > > > . Many > faire performers don't care if their outfit is "period" or not, so long as > it passes muster, which varies from group to group, or faire to faire. > >Although many Faires are increasingly > >bettering their clothing standards, they are still in the range of Theatrical > >costuming moreso than historic recreation of the sort seen in many of the > >reenactment groups. > > I both agree and disagree. I have seen some faire people go to great > lengths to be as historically accurate as current information allows, and I > have seen some SCA re-enactors wear the most basic and inaccurate of > costumes (they are my friends, so I can comment). I think it depends on the > person as to how authentic they want to be. > > > But many of faire people do create and wear garments that they know will be > under close scrutiny by the audience. When customers are standing next to > you, they get to see everything you are wearing, or not. This is different > than true theatre, where you can do odd things to costumes to get it to > "look right" at a distance. Like bumpy plastic beads on a Tudor sleeve to > give it sparkle. I saw that on an old theater costume that was for sale. I > never would put that on a gown used at Faire. > > I think there is a spectrum of accuracy in faire, in costume and in > performers. Some are there for the fun of it, some to provide history > lessons, and others to entertain. > > I personally want to improve my knowledge of historical costumes so I can > improve the costumes I create for faire people. As much as possible, I want > the costumed actors to look like they stepped out of a painting. I have > seen some faire garb that do just that. But it all depends on the person. > > Time to step off my soap box. Thanks for your time. > > Kimiko > This is true Kimiko. My old now defunct company WAS a reenactment group working through the Faire venue. We were not alone in this. Clan MacColin comes to mind readily. The California Faires were also more authentic than many of theze Faires back in their later years but pre Bristol ownership. They still had plenty of room for improvement however. I remain, Ron Carnegie R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 13:08:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37H8HMX009847 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37G88Ko029002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37G87ha018034; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37G80ha017933 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty4081.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.81]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h37G7xNX014782 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:07:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3E91A1D9.5A6F3A38@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:05:45 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel References: <20030407154506.UPQC13884.out002.verizon.net@out002> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Sorry if I touched a nerve, there :). I am aware that there are many different groups involved in Faires, and that some of them are trying to improve overall historical impression. Sad to say, however, they are, in my observation, too few and far between to justify stating that is more common than not. The Faires that I have seen in the past few years (New Jersey at Somerset, New York at Sterling South, Pennsylvania and Maryland) have somewhat improved, and some, like Md., have associated reenactment groups with historical clothing standards. I know the Cali. Faires are much better in this respect than others. I still note, though, ideas that are mentioned, such as having the customers up close to you, which would prevent some of the more obvious Theatrical costuming shortcuts (hot glue and knitted mail, for example), but still allow the wearing of all sorts of things that didn't exist back then. Don't take me wrong, I am thrilled to know that the situation is improving, but I was just noting that it had a long way to go, and a lot of people to convince, before the whole package can be considered Historical Costume moreso than Theatrical (only my opinion). Mike T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 13:45:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37Hj2MX010083 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Gj3Ko003308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Gj0ha018308; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80110.mail.yahoo.com (web80110.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h37Giuha018239 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:44:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030407164455.84886.qmail@web80110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:44:55 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:44:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304062343.h36Nhlq2004088@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pattern material X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol wrote: <> I use the lightweight pellon with the red dots on it that is usually used for drafting patterns. I've found it is light enough to be folded easily, but stands up to repeated use. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 14:37:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37IbhMX010378 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:37:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37HbiKo009684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37HbgqQ029464; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21406.mail.yahoo.com (web21406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h37HbcqQ029417 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030407173737.39405.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.179] by web21406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:37:37 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:37:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030407164455.84886.qmail@web80110.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] New book *gloat* X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My boss went to Williamsburg while on his week+ trip to Washington D.C. for a conference last month and today brought me in the present he bought for me. _Eighteenth-Century Clothing at Williamsburg_ by Linda Baumgarten. *grin* It is *SO* hard to not look at the book instead of typing up proposals and requests for proposals, but I had to pop on long enough to share with people who would understand the joy. Angharat/Jonnalyhn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 14:43:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37Ih6MX010472 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:43:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Hh8Ko010274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Hh7KZ003224; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:43:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Hh4KZ003145 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.148.ea79345 (17526) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:42:50 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <148.ea79345.2bc3129a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:42:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/7/2003 11:04:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: > I haven't seen the film, but I heard Martin Jarvis (veteran British TV actor > who played a supporting role) say on the radio that there were so many > amazing true stories about passengers on the Titanic that he wondered why > they'd bothered to invent one. > > This is EGG-ZACTLY what I asked myself when the film came out. They reproduce the china and silverware....and then make up a bunch of crap about passengers. What the.....? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 14:43:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37IhWMX010479 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37HhRKo010335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37HhQKZ003425; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80108.mail.yahoo.com (web80108.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h37HhMKZ003366 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030407174322.65106.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:43:22 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:43:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304071236.h37CaCQR025160@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Help! I'm acting as wardrobe mistress for our school's production of "Oz" in late May, and when I talked to our drama teacher this morning, he mentioned that he needs 3 tree costumes and 2 crow costumes. The crows are no problem; I had those sketched out in a couple of minutes, and know exactly how to build them. But trees? I'm drawing a blank. Anybody got any ideas on how to build a tree for little money and less time? It has to be approximately small adult size (these are high school students). Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 14:54:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37Is1MX010556 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:54:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37HrnKo011691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:53:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37HrmKZ011059; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37HrkKZ011039 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCZ00HJVJ1K3L@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:49:58 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes In-reply-to: <20030407174322.65106.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407104444.02c90c90@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304071236.h37CaCQR025160@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:43 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Anybody got any ideas on how to build a tree for >little money and less time? It has to be approximately >small adult size (these are high school students). Felt with the old zigzag tree outline motif, like the ones you see on kids Christmas cards? Cut a hole for the face. Or is that too juvenile? Camouflage outfits with dead branches sticking all over the place? Or is that too military? That's two I thought of off the top of my head. Wish I had more ideas for you. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 15:02:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37J2jMX010628 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:02:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37I2jKo012824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:02:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37I2hnE017222; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37I2enE017190 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h37I2esm010045 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:02:40 -0400 Message-Id: <200304071802.h37I2esm010045@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:59:38 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 10:43 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >Anybody got any ideas on how to build a tree for > >little money and less time? It has to be approximately > >small adult size (these are high school students). Is it a funny tree or a scary tree? A "character" that needs a face and emotions, or a piece of scenery that moves a bit? I was thinking brown corduroy (or burlap) clothing and green afro wigs, with something similar on the hands. That might look silly, which may or may not work for the production. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 15:05:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37J5lMX010668 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:05:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37I4aKo013047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37I4ZnE018408; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h37I4UnE018337 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7689 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2003 18:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2003 18:04:30 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55763.162.119.64.111.1049738670.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes From: To: In-Reply-To: <20030407174322.65106.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200304071236.h37CaCQR025160@net.indra.com> <20030407174322.65106.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Help! I'm acting as wardrobe mistress for our school's > production of "Oz" in late May, and when I talked to > our drama teacher this morning, he mentioned that he > needs 3 tree costumes and 2 crow costumes. The crows > are no problem; I had those sketched out in a couple > of minutes, and know exactly how to build them. But > trees? I'm drawing a blank. > > Anybody got any ideas on how to build a tree for > little money and less time? It has to be approximately > small adult size (these are high school students). > > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Dawn, I would make the body into a tube-style floor length dress with black marks that look like knots and bark. For the arms, large tubes of the body material with gloves that have felt leaves attached to them. For the top, I would make a hood-style hat that is more of a cylinder. Then I would make the top bushy with more felt leaves on it. Could you visualize my ideas? Sounds like a fun project. Good luck! Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 15:21:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37JLCMX010890 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:21:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IGLKo014336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IGJnE026343; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IGGnE026307 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CBC57A86B for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 91408-02 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-185-57.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.185.57]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825867AA6C for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:16:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200304071802.h37I2esm010045@jefferson.patriot.net> Message-Id: <01ED28CC-6925-11D7-9A79-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO spray painted carpet foam (the padding) makes an EXCELLENT structure for 'soft' costumes. On Monday, April 7, 2003, at 10:59 AM, wrote: >> At 10:43 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>> Anybody got any ideas on how to build a tree for >>> little money and less time? It has to be approximately >>> small adult size (these are high school students). > > Is it a funny tree or a scary tree? A "character" that needs a > face and > emotions, or a piece of scenery that moves a bit? > > I was thinking brown corduroy (or burlap) clothing and green afro > wigs, > with something similar on the hands. That might look silly, which may > or may > not work for the production. > > -Carol > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 15:39:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37JdeMX011036 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:39:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IcOKo016826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IcMnE013364; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IcHnE013251 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:38:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mccc.edu ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.9/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h37IcB2d000659 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3E91C549.8455867C@mccc.edu> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:36:57 -0400 From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes References: <20030407174322.65106.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found a brown rib knit in the bargain fabrics and made tubes from head to toe. Made a cylinder of 1" foam rubber to go around the head of the actress--shaped it for the shoulders and cut out a hole for the face.... so the foam went from about the collar bone to just above the top of the head. Using the spray adhesive from an uphostery store that works like a contact cement on foam, I glued the top 12" or so of the brown knit all around the cylinder of foam. Cut the knit from center of face-hole to edge an fold the flaps inside (you can stitch these) Folding the flaps of knit to the inside not only covers the visable foam but also protects the actor's face a little from friction. Cut slits at the sides of the knit from should to underarm (approximately 7-8"). make branch/sleeves. I took 10" strip of fabric that went from fingertip to fingertip, folded length-wise, sewed the length of the arm from each end and cut a lengthwise slit in the middle for the head....also put a loop of elastic on the end of each 'branch'-sleeve to go around a finger to help hold it in place. Put the sleeve-branches on the actor (head thru slit); then slide the long trunk tube over the head (actor needs to have arms over head to do this easily)---actor puts arm-branches thru slit in trunk and rest foam cylinder-collar on shoulders. Now you can add real or fake branches to the head and to gauntlet gloves if you want. If the fabric is too plain, paint bark on it. Anyway, your actor can move and bend and throw apples at Dorothy and see...can't walk with big steps, but you can't have everything! I've also made trees out of foam cutouts--back and front, with hole for face and slits for arms---sort of like a sandwich-board. Kate Jacobson Dawn wrote: > Help! I'm acting as wardrobe mistress for our school's > production of "Oz" in late May, and when I talked to > our drama teacher this morning, he mentioned that he > needs 3 tree costumes and 2 crow costumes. The crows > are no problem; I had those sketched out in a couple > of minutes, and know exactly how to build them. But > trees? I'm drawing a blank. > > Anybody got any ideas on how to build a tree for > little money and less time? It has to be approximately > small adult size (these are high school students). > > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. > > Dawn > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. > --Dalai Lama > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 15:39:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37JdnMX011039 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:39:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IdFKo016927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37IdEnE014054; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Id7nE013913 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:39:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.b6.1b17bcd9 (17526) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:38:56 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:38:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/7/2003 1:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dme_maud@pacbell.net writes: > Anybody got any ideas on how to build a tree for > little money and less time? It has to be approximately > small adult size (these are high school students). > Remember, If you cannot hide it, feature it. Cut some trees [good looking, art-sy....go to some artists that "fit" the show...maybe Thomas Hart Benton Thomas Hart Benton Online and 'steal" a tree and it's look] out of furniture boxes...or Luan [sp] or old fake paneling in someone's scrap heap. Paint them. Put real leaves on them [paint them with clear glue]...they need not last that long. Have the actors carry them on and stand behind them [feature it] and put their heads through holes in the trunks. Or put the actors in long sleeved turtlenecks and pants [Goodwill anyone?] painted to look like tree bark and have them hold a leafy branch in each hand...maybe a "crown" of branches too. Again, they could be real but you may have to have fresh ones every night of performance. [Of course for it to REALLY REALLY work, you must have similar types of "effects" throughout the show....perhaps always done by the same people. How are you doing the tornado? Is it "the Wiz" that had a dancer in a brown/grey unitard with a swirling silk chiffon of the same color headpiece that when up into the flies? What other "natural" phenomenon could people in suggestive costumes play?] Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 16:52:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37KqSMX011948 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37JqGKo024724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37JqE7k006035; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37JqA7k005946 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:52:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout09.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCZ001LXOGB0O@mtaout09.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:53:49 -0500 From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: [h-cost] Help with tree costumes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E91D74D.2020503@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now this is a topic that I have had experience with... Have done it in two shows now. Dawn, go to.... http://corsetsandcostumes.com/PhotoAlbum/wizard_of_oz_2001.htm And in the middle of the page (lots of pics) you will see some trees. They danced and threw apples around.. Trees: tops are painted fabric with an aluminum wire perimeter. (they were much bigger to start and better shaped, but then we had to cut them waaaay back to get past the side aprons) We velcro'd apples on them so they could be pulled off and thrown. The wire is attached to a 1/2 or 3/4 inch pvc pipe, that is long enough to slide down into a harness that each actor wore. Trunks: We bought headliner foam. This is 1/8 inch foam that is backed by nylon (or vice versa).. It is commonly used in the ceilings of cars I think? Anyway we got ours at Hancock Fabrics. We purchased a dark charcoal grey and a brown. We painted them laying flat on the ground, using sponges and brushes... made them all streaky like old bark and gave them lots of texture. Cut each into sections, 1 for the body, and 2 pieces for the arms/branches.... Then we put actors into the harnesses with the tops, and wrapped foam around them to cover, leaving enough room to move, and using spray adhesive actually glued the tree trunk to the poles while the actors were in them. We them trimmed the bottoms so they could walk. Marked where we needed to put the holes for the arms/branches.. We bought brown cotton garden gloves for the small branches.. We then glued foam pieces to the back of the hands, and twisted pieces on the fingers. The backs of the trunks were closed using lots of velcro... and we hand sewed the arms in along with using spray adhesive. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 16:54:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37KsqMX011957 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:54:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Jr5Ko024825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Jr57k006744; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f49.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37JqR7k006127 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:52:22 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:52:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:52:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2003 19:52:22.0670 (UTC) FILETIME=[34945AE0:01C2FD3F] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you made a light duct tape double casing and filled it with the spray in foam stuff once you got there, you'd only have to pack the flat empty double and a can of foam. I haven't figured out how to colapse it to go home, but maybe it could just be disposable. I'm going to have my hubby help me make a couple to take pictures of my gowns so they don't always have that "Hanger flat" look. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >From: Deredere Galbraith >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: H-Costume >Subject: [h-cost] Dress form >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:53:59 +0200 > >I was working on sleeves for my "wedding dress and I was wondering how I >want it to display on a arts and sience competition of the SCA. >A dressstand would be nice but would never fit in our car with all the rest >of the stuf. >Then I got a funny idea. >Wouldn't it be nice to have a torso that you can blow up like a balloon? >Just put it in your costume and then blow it up to the right size.... >And maby a hook on it so you can hang it. >I know you can buy them with only the schoulders.... > >Greetings, > Deredere > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 17:20:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37LKSMX012103 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:20:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37KKSKo027814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:20:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37KKQjv026464; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37KKKjv026326 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:20:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779211133E8 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AABB8112037 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:14:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. If > you're gonna cut something, cut the plot and just let's see the ship sink. > Rose and....what's his name [Leo]?...who cares?<< Apparently I'm not the only person who has never felt any burning need to see this film! Dianne /listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 17:38:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37LcFMX012217 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37KcIKo029798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:38:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37KcGjv010246; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37KcCjv010095 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:38:07 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by OE28.law8.internal.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:38:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:39:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2003 20:38:07.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[9891D4E0:01C2FD45] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm... I thought it was good entertainment, I saw it in a movie theatre during the huge ice storm that struck Montreal area that year (the movie theatre had electricity, we hadn't had any for 36 hours). Never understood the whole Titanic craze that surrounded the movie though, it just wasn't worth it. Probably happened because of Leo's pretty face. I saw it mostly for the special effects and re-creation efforts. I wasn't expecting much in terms of depth of story (I put that movie in the same category as Tornado and such other nonsense - good entertainment if you're not looking for more depth - good for embroidery or sewing, good after a couple beers, good when you're really tired and don't want to think about what you're seeing). I guess that's why I wasn't disappointed :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies > > > I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. If > > you're gonna cut something, cut the plot and just let's see the ship sink. > > Rose and....what's his name [Leo]?...who cares?<< > > Apparently I'm not the only person who has never felt any burning need to > see this film! > > Dianne > > /listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 18:08:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37M8rMX012557 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:08:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37L8hKo003257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37L8fMQ002122; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f20.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37L8cMQ002040 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:08:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:08:32 -0700 Received: from 151.199.130.241 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:08:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.130.241] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:08:32 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2003 21:08:32.0988 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8B389C0:01C2FD49] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well of course, because they were shorter then and the heat just rose right over their heads. JUST KIDDING! Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: "Kate M Bunting" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:26:20 +0100 > >Chris Laning wrote: > > An amusing story -- someone from my > >guild was transferred by his company to England for three years, and > >he took his Elizabethan clothing with him. He says he quickly > >discovered _why_ the Elizabethans wore all those layers of wool -- > >his comment was "It gets bloody COLD over there!" > >And, of course, probably got colder still in the 16th century. > > > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 18:22:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37MMWMX012678 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:22:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37LKDKo004383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37LKBMQ010414; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f119.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37LK9MQ010324 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:20:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:20:03 -0700 Received: from 151.199.130.241 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:20:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.130.241] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:20:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2003 21:20:03.0786 (UTC) FILETIME=[7472F2A0:01C2FD4B] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My problem with rayon velvet is that it crushes. I had a skirt of rayon velvet and rode in a car with a patterned vinyl seat, and ever afterward, steam I never so much, I had a skirt with a patterned seat. You have to be careful buying "silk" velvet these days, as it is often 15-20% silk and the rest rayon. Also, I believe cotton isn't used in period as we use it today, and would have been on the costly side, so linen would be a better choice than cotton (though not for a surcoat). Has anyone looked through wills/inventories to find out what surcoats were made of (if such items are listed)? Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Kimiko Small > >But cotton for nobles just doesn't look right, unless it is cotton >velveteen. There is debate as to whether it is better to use cotton >velveteen or silk/rayon velvet for nobles dresses. I prefer cotton as it is >cheaper and holds up to wear ok. Silk/Rayon, while beautiful, is too >expensive to put through the wringer of faire abuse. There is also debate I >have heard about how it is too "shiny" to use for the time period. I still >plan on making a garment with it sometime soon, however. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 18:24:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37MOCMX012685 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37LNgKo004803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:23:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37LNfMQ013069; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37LNaMR013015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:23:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 192e7f-000300-00; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:25:47 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 192e5b-000381-00; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:23:39 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:23:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Napoleon on A&E X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a reminder that the Napoleon miniseries starts tomorrow (April 8) on A&E. The website is interesting. http://aetv.com/tv/shows/napoleon/nap_home.html Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 19:16:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37NG6MX012968 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:16:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MFhKo010357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MFgAc019987; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MFXAc019884 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:15:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.21] (p05.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.21]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h37MGV318105 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:16:31 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:13:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies From: sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 4/7/03 2:14 PM, Dianne and Greg Stucki at goofy1@suscom.net wrote: > >> I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. If >> you're gonna cut something, cut the plot and just let's see the ship sink. >> Rose and....what's his name [Leo]?...who cares?<< > > Apparently I'm not the only person who has never felt any burning need to > see this film! > >No, don't waste your money, even if it's only .99 at the discount video store. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 19:19:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37NJAMX012978 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:19:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MIuKo010663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MItAc022057; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MInAc021964 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout09.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCZ002POVAURG@mtaout09.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:18:30 -0500 From: Allison In-reply-to: <200304071743.h37HhZKa003518@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Re: tree costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, Dawn! I recently made a tree costume for a child of about 6. I had a little more than a week to do it along with a couple of other odd costumes. (a rock and a sun) What I ended up was perfect for their needs (a TV commercial in which the kids are in a school play with homemade costumes...) but with a little more refinement it could actually be very nice! The only problem you might encounter is with the body sizes, but you can use my technique and go from there. I used a tomato cage (3 metal rings of graduated size held together by 3 vertical metal rods, making a cone shape, open at both ends.) Have your actor stand with his arms straight up and, holding the cage upside down (wide end at the bottom,) slide the cage over his head, putting his arms through the widest section between the top and middle ring. Lower his arms. The widest ring should be around his torso/chest, the middle ring should sit on his shoulders, and the smallest ring should be somewhere around his forehead. Then make a sort of harness for his shoulders so the form will be more stable and won't dig into his shoulders. I can't remember exactly how I did it, but here goes: I made shoulder straps by taping from the circular piece on his shoulders to the front of his shoulders. (The weight of the structure now supported by the duct tape vee from center back to front of shoulders.) From there I made some armhole-like openings with more duct tape - the purpose being to make the structure stable on the actors' body, but not add too much weight and still allow the finished piece to be slipped over the head. Oh, yeah, I remember making a sort of forehead band also, for added stability. (Like that machine they put you in at the eye doctor - where you snug your forehead up to the band while they do scary things to your eyes.) When I got the cage to fit securely enough, I wrapped chicken wire around the cage to about upper-thigh-level - wanted it to be long enough so it wouldn't be top-heavy, but still allow the actor to walk. Then I made chicken-wire branches and attached them to the chicken wire base. When the tree form was finished, I cut out arm holes and a face hole, and bound those edges and the other interior places where the wire had been cut with more duct tape so there were no pointy parts to hurt the little guy. (About the arm-holes - they may not be necessary for you - I did them so the child would have as much free movement as possible, for safety's sake!) Then I papier-mached and painted the whole thing, and used tissue paper for leaves. (Remember, this was supposed to look like daddy made it in the garage...) Actually, at first I tried using burlap dipped in liquid starch, but that was a very bad choice (too heavy, wouldn't stick to itself, REALLY messy, took forever to dry,) so I pulled that off and used strips pf newspaper and watered-down Elmer's, and I got just as much texture and a lighter weight. So - hope this is of some use to you. Please forgive the less-than-perfect directions, but at least the basics are there. Please email me if you have any questions! I love these sorts of projects! Good luck!! Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 19:35:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37NZkMX013018 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:35:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MZiKo012617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MZhAc003001; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:35:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MZYAc002859 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:35:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.105] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA65F2300F8; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:23:33 -0400 Message-ID: <004601c2fd55$6b631be0$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:31:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there some reason why we seem to expect that velvet (rayon or otherwise) will always look as well as it seems to look in the paintings...without wrinkles or use distortions? Even in my 20th Century collection pieces, silk velvet still exhibits 'character' that you would expect of a garment that was worn and 'used'. I have come to see this as 'of the nature of velvet'. Some of my examples from the 19th century that are untested but could be of either silk or cotton tend to stand up better in the long run; but then these are also garments that probably were used for purposes that were less injurious for their general appearance. Because it wears better for most part, my preference for such things applique is to go with velveteen. It is easier to work with re cutting and turning prep for sewing. Also it holds its color better with light exposure. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Kiel" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel > My problem with rayon velvet is that it crushes. I had a skirt of rayon > velvet and rode in a car with a patterned vinyl seat, and ever afterward, > steam I never so much, I had a skirt with a patterned seat. You have to be > careful buying "silk" velvet these days, as it is often 15-20% silk and the > rest rayon. Also, I believe cotton isn't used in period as we use it today, > and would have been on the costly side, so linen would be a better choice > than cotton (though not for a surcoat). Has anyone looked through > wills/inventories to find out what surcoats were made of (if such items are > listed)? > > > > Nancy Kiel > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > Never tease a weasel! > This is very good advice. > For the weasel will not like it > And teasing isn't nice. > > > > > > >From: Kimiko Small > > > >But cotton for nobles just doesn't look right, unless it is cotton > >velveteen. There is debate as to whether it is better to use cotton > >velveteen or silk/rayon velvet for nobles dresses. I prefer cotton as it is > >cheaper and holds up to wear ok. Silk/Rayon, while beautiful, is too > >expensive to put through the wringer of faire abuse. There is also debate I > >have heard about how it is too "shiny" to use for the time period. I still > >plan on making a garment with it sometime soon, however. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 19:38:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37NcsMX013032 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Md3Ko012990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37Md2Ac004996; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta04ps.bigpond.com (mta04ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37McvAc004912 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.81]) by mta04ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta04ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id HCZW8Q00.8W9 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:38:50 +1000 Received: from ESS-p-203-54-110-171.mega.tmns.net.au ([203.54.110.171]) by psmam05.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 101/14435221); 08 Apr 2003 08:38:50 Message-ID: <3E92ED40.4FF41277@bigpond.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:39:44 -0700 From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. If > > you're gonna cut something, cut the plot and just let's see the ship sink. > > Rose and....what's his name [Leo]?...who cares?<< > > Apparently I'm not the only person who has never felt any burning need to > see this film! > > No, no you're not *grin* Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 19:49:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37NnfMX013063 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:49:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MnnKo014102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MnlAc011685; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MniAc011658 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.21] (p05.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.21]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h37Mog319918 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:50:42 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:47:55 -0600 From: sylvia To: H-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Titanic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to partially retract what I said about this dreadful movie. I said not to waste your money on it, but sometimes I feel the need to see bad movies and TV shows that are so extremely popular just so that I stay in touch with the pulse of our culture and am not out of the loop. so to speak. Which is a sad commentary on our culture, isn't it? And then there's always the reason to see a movie because of the costumes. Sylvia Rognstad, another mother for peace -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 19:55:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37NtYMX013091 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:55:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MthKo014932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MtfIw016162; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail6.kc.rr.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37MtYIw016048 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail6.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:55:47 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407175944.009fdd90@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:00:14 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book *gloat* In-Reply-To: <20030407173737.39405.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030407164455.84886.qmail@web80110.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now that's a boss I could love! Sheryl Nance-Durst At 10:37 AM 4/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >My boss went to Williamsburg while on his week+ trip >to Washington D.C. for a conference last month and >today brought me in the present he bought for me. > >_Eighteenth-Century Clothing at Williamsburg_ by Linda >Baumgarten. > >*grin* > >Angharat/Jonnalyhn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 20:04:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3804EMX013125 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37N4JKo016126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37N4Hx2021890; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h37N4Ex2021844 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:04:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HCZ00H6SXETP8@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:00:17 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407155606.02c845c0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:47 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: >And then there's always the reason to see a movie because of the costumes. Personally, I enjoyed the movie. I took it for what it was, entertainment on a Christmas Day with my boyfriend (now husband), cried at the tear jerkers, enjoyed the storyline, loved all the dresses, and when I went home I did some more research into the real story of the Titanic. I even bought the movie book so I could look at the dresses better. As a full sized woman, I appreciate Kathy Bates' outfits. To look so good as a fuller woman in that era of clothing. I have realized that most movies will never be as good as the original, whether it is the original story, original book, or even original short story fiction (like Children of the Corn). But a movie is good to spend a few hours in entertainment, and especially to drool over the costumes. My perspective anyway. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 21:01:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3811PMX013404 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:01:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3801WKo024962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:01:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3801TUT029149; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03.fuse.net (mx3.fuse.net [216.68.1.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3801PUT029101 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netzero.netzero.net ([216.196.141.253]) by mta03.fuse.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030408000119.VSAR23022.mta03.fuse.net@netzero.netzero.net> for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:01:19 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030407193559.00b0ae30@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: zofiahborek@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:36:52 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Lady Zofia Borek Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fun question In-Reply-To: <1063.209.209.20.47.1049592300.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com > References: <3E8F53AA.618B7F27@in-tch.com> <20030405172211.52876.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> <3E8F53AA.618B7F27@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >It seems to me that there are plenty of places to order online or don't >you guys agree? > >Diana But of course, you cannot touch the fabric and find the exact hand and texture until you order it. Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 22:23:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h382NpMX013803 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:23:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381NrKo001983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381NquH009234; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381NFuH008821 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.116] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1B210BD00F8; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:11:14 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c2fd6c$d1f22d80$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: tree costumes Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:18:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a great solution, Allison! This sounds like one of those 'fairy wand' things ...making do with what you have on hand. Did you flare the top for the branches? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: tree costumes > Hello, Dawn! > > I recently made a tree costume for a child of about 6. I had a little more > than a week to do it along with a couple of other odd costumes. (a rock and > a sun) What I ended up was perfect for their needs (a TV commercial in > which the kids are in a school play with homemade costumes...) but with a > little more refinement it could actually be very nice! > > The only problem you might encounter is with the body sizes, but you can use > my technique and go from there. I used a tomato cage (3 metal rings of > graduated size held together by 3 vertical metal rods, making a cone shape, > open at both ends.) Have your actor stand with his arms straight up and, > holding the cage upside down (wide end at the bottom,) slide the cage over > his head, putting his arms through the widest section between the top and > middle ring. Lower his arms. The widest ring should be around his > torso/chest, the middle ring should sit on his shoulders, and the smallest > ring should be somewhere around his forehead. Then make a sort of harness > for his shoulders so the form will be more stable and won't dig into his > shoulders. I can't remember exactly how I did it, but here goes: I made > shoulder straps by taping from the circular piece on his shoulders to the > front of his shoulders. (The weight of the structure now supported by the > duct tape vee from center back to front of shoulders.) From there I made > some armhole-like openings with more duct tape - the purpose being to make > the structure stable on the actors' body, but not add too much weight and > still allow the finished piece to be slipped over the head. Oh, yeah, I > remember making a sort of forehead band also, for added stability. (Like > that machine they put you in at the eye doctor - where you snug your > forehead up to the band while they do scary things to your eyes.) > > When I got the cage to fit securely enough, I wrapped chicken wire around > the cage to about upper-thigh-level - wanted it to be long enough so it > wouldn't be top-heavy, but still allow the actor to walk. Then I made > chicken-wire branches and attached them to the chicken wire base. When the > tree form was finished, I cut out arm holes and a face hole, and bound those > edges and the other interior places where the wire had been cut with more > duct tape so there were no pointy parts to hurt the little guy. (About the > arm-holes - they may not be necessary for you - I did them so the child > would have as much free movement as possible, for safety's sake!) > > Then I papier-mached and painted the whole thing, and used tissue paper for > leaves. (Remember, this was supposed to look like daddy made it in the > garage...) Actually, at first I tried using burlap dipped in liquid starch, > but that was a very bad choice (too heavy, wouldn't stick to itself, REALLY > messy, took forever to dry,) so I pulled that off and used strips pf > newspaper and watered-down Elmer's, and I got just as much texture and a > lighter weight. > > So - hope this is of some use to you. Please forgive the less-than-perfect > directions, but at least the basics are there. Please email me if you have > any questions! I love these sorts of projects! > > Good luck!! > > Allison > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 22:24:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h382OPMX013807 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:24:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381NjKo001945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381NiuH009135; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381N5uH008738 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.26.379751c2 (4328) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <26.379751c2.2bc37e64@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:22:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern Material To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For pattern tracing, I use non-woven pattern tracing paper from fabric.com. It's thin enough to be lightweight and see-through, but it won't disintegrate after just a few uses, is pinnable, and not terribly expensive. I bought a 50-yard bolt of it, and (in my size at least) I can even fit Margo's skirt patterns on one width (46") rather than needing to piece anything together. It's really nice to be able to do that. It's easy to cut, too. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 22:24:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h382OaMX013810 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381NHKo001892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381N5uH008775; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381N1uH008713 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m239.in-tch.com [216.166.191.239]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3815G915910 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E9224B9.A4D376C5@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:24:09 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nope. I've never seen it either, and don't intend to.... --sue Dianne Stucki wrote: > > > I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. If > > you're gonna cut something, cut the plot and just let's see the ship sink. > > Rose and....what's his name [Leo]?...who cares?<< > > Apparently I'm not the only person who has never felt any burning need to > see this film! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 22:52:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h382qGMX013907 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:52:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381q9Ko003658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:52:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381q6uH020486; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:52:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381q1uI020449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h382ZFut019192 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:35:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h382ZE32019190 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:35:14 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:35:14 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h381q1uI020449 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 07 April 2003 04:39 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > Hmm... I thought it was good entertainment, Agreed. >I saw it in a movie theatre > during the huge ice storm that struck Montreal area that year (the movie > theatre had electricity, we hadn't had any for 36 hours). Never understood > the whole Titanic craze that surrounded the movie though, it just wasn't > worth it. Me either. It was a good movie with a simple story (I mean the love story, not the sinking, not really) reasonably well told. >Probably happened because of Leo's pretty face. Never understood that, either. Leo isn't *that* pretty, and his subsequent films have shown he's not that much of an actor, either. But he had great chemistry with Winslet, and that made the love scenes much more convincing than they otherwise would have been. > I saw it mostly > for the special effects and re-creation efforts. Ditto. > I wasn't expecting much in > terms of depth of story (I put that movie in the same category as Tornado > and such other nonsense - good entertainment if you're not looking for more > depth - good for embroidery or sewing, good after a couple beers, good when > you're really tired and don't want to think about what you're seeing). I > guess that's why I wasn't disappointed :-) Agreed. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 22:59:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h382xiMX013962 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:59:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381xpKo004091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:59:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381xnZk023252; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h381xjZl023228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:59:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h382gwut019221 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:42:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h382gw6q019219 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:42:58 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wool in Modern American Clothing (WAS: Re: Surcoat fabric) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:42:57 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407075832.06350e80@mail.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407075832.06350e80@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200304072242.57952.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h381xjZl023228 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 07 April 2003 08:21 am, Brenda Bell wrote: > Cathy Raymond responded to Heather Meadows: > >On Saturday 05 April 2003 01:29 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > > > actually, a lot of people don't wear wool, or only have a sweater or > > > two out of it. Most people I know stick to cottons for everyday wear - > > > I have to search long and hard to find good wool clothes casual enough > > > for everyday. > > > >A lot of Americans don't wear wool much. Cotton, on the other hand, in a > >wide variety of forms, is ubiquitous. > > Which may have something to do with our cotton industry and cotton export > industry? Well, sure. Since we are a cotton producing nation, cotton is easy to come by...QED. :-) > >It's easy enough to find wool sweaters that are casual, but you're > >right--most > >other wool clothing is more formal. Suits, nice pants, or dresses not > > meant for everyday. > > That depends on where you live, and the environment in which you work. > While many offices have changed their dress codes to "business casual", > many others have not. Most men in white-collar jobs still wear wool or > wool-blend suits year-round. I still wear lined wool slacks to work on the > coldest days of the year, and wool blazers as fall/spring jackets (I work > in a shirts-and-chinos environment). This is all true, but I'm not sure I see the point of it. As far as I'm concerned, the type of wool pants that go with "business casual" are still more formal than the everyday stuff I was thinking of. My office is "business casual" and I only wear wool slacks for formal occasions. Of course, I don't live in the coldest part of the country, but I still prefer wearing tights under chinos or corduroy than pants I know I will have to dry clean if I spill something on them. >When I'm in a cooler environment (the > apartment gets quite chilly of a cold winter), you can bet I'm wearing wool > or wool-blend sweaters and longjohns. I'm sure. I hadn't been thinking about underwear, either. (Though when I do wear long underwear, I prefer cotton waffle knits to wool. Even smooth wools and most wool blends make me itch, after a while, if I'm wearing them directly against my skin. -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 23:38:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h383cLMX014140 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:38:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382cIKo007077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:38:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382cEZk010351; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:38:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382c9Zk010268 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.122.20fe23c9 (4206) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:37:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <122.20fe23c9.2bc39006@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:37:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/7/2003 9:24:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > Apparently I'm not the only person who has never felt any burning need to > > see this film! > I didn't see it either, but my best friend felt she ought to take her teen-aged daughter to see it. The daughter was not impressed with Leo di Caprio--thought the fiance was better looking--and my friend said she started rooting for the North Atlantic before it was over. With so many good real stories of the passengers, why did they feel compelled to make these up? I wasn't really into costumes then, but I understand that "A Night to Remember" is much closer to fact, story-wise. But, I have to admit, I really enjoyed "The Buccaneer," another movie loosely based on a real story, even though most of the story was wildly inaccurate and the costumes were pretty dreadful. Maybe it was because I know the history so well that I could appreciate it as a comedy. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 23:49:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h383n4MX014210 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:49:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382n7Ko007911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382n6Zk015083; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382n2Zk015056 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-38lc215.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.8.37] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192jAT-0002rx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:49:01 -0700 Message-ID: <003601c2fd7b$0623a800$250856d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion><004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <3E91887A.5ED1E134@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:56:15 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] costume data bases was Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Trust me, I've already thought of that!! Melanie said she was putting Henslowe into data base form already so I was a bit envious. I am always pressed for time. You know, I bet there would be some money in publishing costume data bases, not just books. It would be great to buy a CD by fashion period, with the correct fabric samples, buttons, portraits etc....... wouldn't that be grand! Search by region, class. I created a few tables and forms for such a data base when I was working at a temp job where I had nothing to do, but haven't stated entering any data yet. It would come in pretty handy that's for sure. Now, where did I see that double ruff again???? Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > hmmmm....a post-Stubbes project.....hmmmmm ;-) > --sue > > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > > > A searchable Henslowe's diary would be sooooo nice!!!! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 7 23:53:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h383rHMX014256 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:53:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382rBKo008120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382rAZk017007; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h382r8Zk016984 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-38lc215.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.8.37] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192jER-0001RG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:53:08 -0700 Message-ID: <004301c2fd7b$9b18e560$250856d1@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3.0.6.32.20030407081427.00836ec0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:04:43 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO you know, I suspect you could get one of those "blow up dress forms" from an "adult shop". Didn't Dudley Moore have one of those in "Foul Play"? just trying to be helpful :) Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; "H-Costume" Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form > > >Wouldn't it be nice to have a torso that you can blow up like a balloon? > >Just put it in your costume and then blow it up to the right size.... > >And maby a hook on it so you can hang it. > >I know you can buy them with only the schoulders.... > > There is such a thing, at least there used to be 15 years ago when I was > working in the bridal business. Maybe a bridal store could order one for you? > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 00:05:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3845eMX014316 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:05:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3835jKo009024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3835hso022335; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:05:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe50.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3835dso022254 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:05:34 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by OE50.law8.internal.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 03:05:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3.0.6.32.20030407081427.00836ec0@pop.directcon.net> <004301c2fd7b$9b18e560$250856d1@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:06:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2003 03:05:34.0618 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8FCDFA0:01C2FD7B] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try this: http://www.ourbooklet.com/mannequins.htm :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form > you know, I suspect you could get one of those "blow up dress forms" from an > "adult shop". Didn't Dudley Moore have one of those in "Foul Play"? > > just trying to be helpful :) > > Lisa > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margo Anderson" > To: "Historical Costume" ; "H-Costume" > > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:14 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form > > > > > > >Wouldn't it be nice to have a torso that you can blow up like a balloon? > > >Just put it in your costume and then blow it up to the right size.... > > >And maby a hook on it so you can hang it. > > >I know you can buy them with only the schoulders.... > > > > There is such a thing, at least there used to be 15 years ago when I was > > working in the bridal business. Maybe a bridal store could order one for > you? > > > > Margo > > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > http://www.margospatterns.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 00:24:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h384O1MX014372 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383O5Ko010270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383O3so029377; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h383O0so029304 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3V+yTPHeIg8md9KnXHf7GNcS6oFY6omXnA==">; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:23:48 EDT Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HU8BVCVV; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:23:48 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:20:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form Message-ID: <20030407.212459.-682763.0.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-11,20,27,30-36 From: btana@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:04:43 -0700 "Lisa Sinervo" writes: > you know, I suspect you could get one of those "blow up dress forms" from an > "adult shop". Didn't Dudley Moore have one of those in "Foul Play"? > > just trying to be helpful :) > > Lisa You know, as strange as it sounds... I think you're on to something here! And yes, I'm being completely serious here. I hadn't thought about it until I read this reply! I don't know how well it would work, other than to hang from something, because you certainly couldn't stand it, even with a solid stand. But I think you could use something like that, if you or someone you know would be willing to make the stop for you, that is. You could hang it, hopefully, by using a cording under the head (hopefully done in such a way as to keep from looking like it's suppose to be someone who has hung themselves). Or, what about several duct tape torsos, that are "hinged" at the shoulders, with a somewhat open neck, that will fit inside each other when they are laid out completely open. The hanger would go inside the neck and shoulders, and the torso would fold down around it, keeping the garment shaped. Would that still take up too much room? That's at least another option for someone who does have the room in only certain dimensions. Anyhow, that's what I could come up with beyond the one above. I still have to admit, I like that idea! (And no, I'm not fond of "adult shops". Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde ICQ # 67785514 MSN btana_qul_mupwi Yahoo lady_btana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 00:32:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h384WLMX014402 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:32:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383WQKo010839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383WOso003027; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:32:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383WMso003003 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0090.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.90] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192jqP-0002Jw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:32:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3E925ED8.39E949B5@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:32:11 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] more on Cloth of Gold and Silver References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > > >Oh, thanks! Now, if you'll tell me how many shillings to the pound, > >I'll be set! > > Twenty. > > Kate Bunting (feeling old, as I was brought up with the l.s.d. syslem) Well, I was feeling silly for not knowing something so basic! Thanks, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 00:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h384oEMX014514 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:50:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383oPKo012020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383oNso009959; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383oLso009930 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0090.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.90] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192k7o-00044K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:50:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3E92630F.2A2FDF11@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:50:10 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > The starch entry is on page 244 in the 1961 typeface edition - entry [204]. Aha--I haven't gotten that far yet. I'll be sure and put it into the database when I get there. > A searchable Henslowe's diary would be sooooo nice!!!! Well, I'm only entering the costume-related parts, but it's already been nice. I just put the word "copper" in the proper field, and up popped the four related entries out of the fifty I've done so far. I'll have to see how to make it deliverable to other people's computers. I just feel as though there's so much information out there, and so much of it hasn't been collated so that we can compare and contrast mentions of various types of styles, fabrics, and colors. Danielle, are you entering your will and inventory entries into a database? That would be handy! In your copious free time, of course... ;) Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 00:55:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h384tiMX014561 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:55:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383toKo012405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383tn9O012048; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h383tj9O012018 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0090.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.90] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192kD2-0003IF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:55:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3E926454.D8CB9CCD@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:55:35 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases was Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Goldand Silver References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion><004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <003601c2fd7b$0623a800$250856d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > You know, I bet there would be some money in publishing > costume data bases, not just books. It would be great to buy a CD by > fashion period, with the correct fabric samples, buttons, portraits > etc....... wouldn't that be grand! Well, it's not exactly databases, but there is a guy named James Harrington who is scanning his vintage fashion mags and putting them on CDs. He's willing to do them custom if you want a particular year. I have a sample CD with 196 pages (in Adobe Acrobat) of magazines from 1870 to 1940. His website is http://www.dressmakingresearch.com and he does have some research images free online as well. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:01:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3851JMX014595 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:01:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3841OKo012706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:01:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3841N9O014151; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3841L9O014126 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD000HUTB66TQ@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:57:38 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver In-reply-to: <3E92630F.2A2FDF11@faucet.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407205656.02cf8a10@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:50 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I'll have >to see how to make it deliverable to other people's computers. MySQL is a great online database, according to my hubby. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:09:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3859GMX014658 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:09:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3849LKo013284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3849K9O017733; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3849H9O017652 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout08.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD000BRQBIZ17@mtaout08.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:08:59 -0500 From: Allison In-reply-to: <200304080324.h383OGsp029487@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 137 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 4/7/03 10:24 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Did you flare the top for > the branches? Thanks, Kathleen! Yes, it flared out. As I remember, I made two rather large (approx. 10" at the bottom x 24" long) cone shapes from the chicken wire and attached them to the top of the main trunk form just above the head, angling out at different degrees, and attached a third branch a bit lower, coming out of the back, so as not to interfere with vision. I bent the branches in different directions, to look more natural. After the branches were attached I put the whole thing on the floor and twisted and tweaked until the form would stand up on its own. I sort of squished the wire armature into a tree-crotch shape and used duct tape to smooth the joints before I started with the papier mache. If I'd had time and it needed to be "prettier" I would've made smaller branches and twigs coming off the main branches. Maybe with real twigs? Thanks for asking - I forget how much I enjoy figuring these kinds of things out and it's nice to revisit the project every once in awhile! Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:11:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h385BMMX014671 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:11:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384BZKo013388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384BY9O018561; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:11:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384BW9O018545 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0090.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.90] helo=faucet.net) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192kSJ-0002cJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:11:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3E926806.32B58F02@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:11:21 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Wired supportasses (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407081200.0449aec8@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brenda Bell wrote: > > This sounds not too unfamiliar. There was a cotton "ruff" (actually a > pleated-flat collar) with lace trim in the Metropolitan Museum of Art's > "Extreme Beauty" exhibition last fall (unfortunately, it is not in the > collection catalogue -- nor is it in the books with their usual listings of > acquisitions, nor can it be found in their general database...). That's because, for reasons best known to those responsible, both ruff and supportasse reside in the European Sculpture and Decorative Arts collection as part of the Antonio Ratti Textile Center. The Textile Center's hours are very limited, and I wasn't able to visit it when I was last there, but I intend to go back! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:19:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h385J7MX014724 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:19:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384JJKo013892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384JI9O021794; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384JF9O021771 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:19:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0090.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.90] helo=faucet.net) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192kZm-0004Ti-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:19:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3E9269D6.642E04C@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:19:05 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume databases, was: Henslowe's Diary References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <5.1.0.14.0.20030407205656.02cf8a10@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > > At 11:50 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >I'll have > >to see how to make it deliverable to other people's computers. > > MySQL is a great online database, according to my hubby. After doing an admittedly tiny amount of research into MySQL, I don't know if I'm enough of a geek to handle it. It sounds like a good thing for people who can write their own code, but I'm using FileMaker, and I'm still figuring THAT out! I wonder if one could import a set of records from FileMaker into MySQL? There may be other options as well if all I want to do is put it up on my website--I'll talk to my favorite web guru about it. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:21:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h385LUMX014734 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:21:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384LSKo014096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384LR9O022640; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384LP9O022601 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m77.in-tch.com [216.166.191.77]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3843c929636 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E924E87.C9388039@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:22:31 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wool in Modern American Clothing (WAS: Re: Surcoatfabric) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407075832.06350e80@mail.earthlink.net> <200304072242.57952.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We import a lot of it, too..... All of the cotton tenting material my (thank god) former employer purchased came in these huge bales from India, as basically unfinished goods. Any finishing processes (mold/mildew resistance treatments, flame retardant, etc.) were done here in the US. I remember, a shipment of ours got largely ruined by, I think, Hurricane Hugo? --sue, who now works in an extremely clothes-casual environment (jeans and tee shirts for most of us, although some of the front office people dress up to the point of being sorta-casual), and who would melt into an ugly puddle if she had to wear wool to work... Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > On Monday 07 April 2003 08:21 am, Brenda Bell wrote: > > Cathy Raymond responded to Heather Meadows: > > >On Saturday 05 April 2003 01:29 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > > > > actually, a lot of people don't wear wool, or only have a sweater or > > > > two out of it. Most people I know stick to cottons for everyday wear - > > > > I have to search long and hard to find good wool clothes casual enough > > > > for everyday. > > > > > >A lot of Americans don't wear wool much. Cotton, on the other hand, in a > > >wide variety of forms, is ubiquitous. > > > > Which may have something to do with our cotton industry and cotton export > > industry? > > Well, sure. Since we are a cotton producing nation, cotton is easy to come > by...QED. :-) > > > >It's easy enough to find wool sweaters that are casual, but you're > > >right--most > > >other wool clothing is more formal. Suits, nice pants, or dresses not > > > meant for everyday. > > > > That depends on where you live, and the environment in which you work. > > While many offices have changed their dress codes to "business casual", > > many others have not. Most men in white-collar jobs still wear wool or > > wool-blend suits year-round. I still wear lined wool slacks to work on the > > coldest days of the year, and wool blazers as fall/spring jackets (I work > > in a shirts-and-chinos environment). > > This is all true, but I'm not sure I see the point of it. As far as I'm > concerned, the type of wool pants that go with "business casual" are still > more formal than the everyday stuff I was thinking of. > > My office is "business casual" and I only wear wool slacks for formal > occasions. Of course, I don't live in the coldest part of the country, but I > still prefer wearing tights under chinos or corduroy than pants I know I will > have to dry clean if I spill something on them. > > >When I'm in a cooler environment (the > > apartment gets quite chilly of a cold winter), you can bet I'm wearing wool > > or wool-blend sweaters and longjohns. > > I'm sure. I hadn't been thinking about underwear, either. (Though when I do > wear long underwear, I prefer cotton waffle knits to wool. Even smooth wools > and most wool blends make me itch, after a while, if I'm wearing them > directly against my skin. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:27:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h385RZMX014755 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:27:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384RhKo014518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384Ra9O025429; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384RW9O025320 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:27:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com (c-24-245-41-166.mn.client2.attbi.com[24.245.41.166]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003040804272700100dgte5e>; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 04:27:27 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030407232237.0314a900@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:29:31 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: databases of 16th century info was Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary In-Reply-To: <3E92630F.2A2FDF11@faucet.net> References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Yup, a database is how I do it. That is the only way to keep track of the information. I've looked at well over 1500 wills so far and the end isn't anywhere in sight.... However, I hope no one is holding their breath for my database to be online anytime soon. I've sent in my application to the University of Manchester (England) to do my PhD there - specifically on clothing & textile references in 16th century English wills and inventories. So, I won't be giving away my databases. However, my first paper on clothing references in 16th century English wills & inventories which I gave at K'zoo in May 2000 will be up on my website shortly. www.frozen-fyre.com Cheers, Danielle At 11:50 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I just feel as though there's so much information out there, and so much >of it hasn't been collated so that we can compare and contrast mentions >of various types of styles, fabrics, and colors. Danielle, are you >entering your will and inventory entries into a database? That would be >handy! In your copious free time, of course... > >;) >Melanie Schuessler >http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:38:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h385cfMX014790 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:38:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384aqKo015184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:36:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384ap9O029374; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:36:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384ao9O029325 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m77.in-tch.com [216.166.191.77]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h384J4905758 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E925225.3FD04EB8@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:37:57 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: databases of 16th century info was Re: [h-cost] Henslowe'sDiary References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <5.0.0.25.2.20030407232237.0314a900@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What are you using for your database? The only db-related stuff I've ever dealt with is MicrosoftAccess..... --sue Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > > Hi, > > Yup, a database is how I do it. That is the only way to keep track of the > information. I've looked at well over 1500 wills so far and the end isn't > anywhere in sight.... > > However, I hope no one is holding their breath for my database to be online > anytime soon. I've sent in my application to the University of Manchester > (England) to do my PhD there - specifically on clothing & textile > references in 16th century English wills and inventories. So, I won't be > giving away my databases. However, my first paper on clothing references > in 16th century English wills & inventories which I gave at K'zoo in May > 2000 will be up on my website shortly. www.frozen-fyre.com > > Cheers, > Danielle > > At 11:50 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: > > > > >I just feel as though there's so much information out there, and so much > >of it hasn't been collated so that we can compare and contrast mentions > >of various types of styles, fabrics, and colors. Danielle, are you > >entering your will and inventory entries into a database? That would be > >handy! In your copious free time, of course... > > > >;) > >Melanie Schuessler > >http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:47:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h385liMX014821 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:47:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384ltKo015745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384lt9O003694; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384le9O003599 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD000CKTDAWYH@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:40:41 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume databases, was: Henslowe's Diary In-reply-to: <3E9269D6.642E04C@faucet.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407213811.02c7b5a0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <5.1.0.14.0.20030407205656.02cf8a10@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:19 AM 4/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I wonder if one could import a set of >records from FileMaker into MySQL? MySQL takes all the basic formats, which most every database exports to. That includes spreadsheet formats as well. Comma delineated is about the basic data file format that everything will take. And I don't deal well with databases. I understand them, I've used them, but I leave the programming of them to my hubby and his friends. In turn I make my hubby his costumes. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 01:47:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h385lpMX014824 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:47:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384ljKo015727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384lj9O003625; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h384le9Q003599 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:47:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD000CKTDAWYH@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:43:39 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: databases of 16th century info was Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary In-reply-to: <5.0.0.25.2.20030407232237.0314a900@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407214229.02d05c40@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/4/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <3E92630F.2A2FDF11@faucet.net> <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:29 PM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote: >So, I won't be giving away my databases. How about when you are done and received your PhD, you put those databases on CDRom and sell them? It would provide a much needed resource, and you get some reimbursement for your time? Just a thought. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 02:09:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3869MMX016966 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:09:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3859OKo016831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3859M18012105; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3859J18012040 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com (c-24-245-41-166.mn.client2.attbi.com[24.245.41.166]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <2003040805091305200gvbjue>; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:09:13 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030407235947.02e968d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:00:27 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: databases of 16th century info was Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407214229.02d05c40@127.0.0.1> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030407232237.0314a900@mail.attbi.com> <3E92630F.2A2FDF11@faucet.net> <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <004601c2fd05$dcd36320$1b0e77d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:43 PM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >At 11:29 PM 4/7/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>So, I won't be giving away my databases. > >How about when you are done and received your PhD, you put those databases >on CDRom and sell them? It would provide a much needed resource, and you >get some reimbursement for your time? > >Just a thought. > >Kimiko That is actually an excellent thought!!! I just might do that. I figure it won't be for a few years though....I have to get accepted first! Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 02:09:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3869PMX016975 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:09:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3859eKo016892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3859d18012242; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3859J19012040 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com (c-24-245-41-166.mn.client2.attbi.com[24.245.41.166]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <2003040805091405200gvbjve>; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:09:14 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030408000038.02e93190@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:01:56 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: databases of 16th century info was Re: [h-cost] Henslowe'sDiary In-Reply-To: <3E925225.3FD04EB8@in-tch.com> References: <001301c2fd00$2493f9a0$1b0e77d8@pavilion> <5.0.0.25.2.20030407232237.0314a900@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Access is what I'm using. My husband (computer guru) writes my queries for me. Mind you when I go away to school I will have to learn to write my own. Cheers, Danielle At 10:37 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: >What are you using for your database? The only db-related stuff I've >ever dealt with is MicrosoftAccess..... >--sue > >Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Yup, a database is how I do it. That is the only way to keep track of the > > information. I've looked at well over 1500 wills so far and the end isn't > > anywhere in sight.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 02:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h386oEMX026525 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:50:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385oQKo018919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385oP18029098; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385oN18029055 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A31C805100FE; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:50:20 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A31D112C0080; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:50:21 -0500 Message-ID: <00c501c2fd92$83623860$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:48:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Help needed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com is in need of an intern who can do graphics and html coding. We are vastly expanding our online library and have a 1911 Beauty School/ Hair textbook that needs coding and graphics done. Two interns from Mexico and Denmark have just about finished typing up this book. In May, we will have another book like this one, coded too. Working on this book has a real learning experience for them. This is an unpaid internship, but in exchange the intern gets to take free online classes with us at www.costumeclassroom.com as long as they are working for us. Skills needed for the internship: Graphics software: Paint Shop Pro or PhotoShop HTML: Know how to code in raw HTML code. We do not accept FrontPage, AOL HTML software, or Netscape HTML Composer. We will accept people who use notepad, Notetab Light (freeware), or Dreamweaver. Code is built using templates that we supply. Must have knowledge of using tables. If interested, please write me personally at penny@costumegallery.com . Please include, a phone number if in the U.S., software skills, and URLs of previous work. ***Note, we do have experience working with interns around the world. Work is done in your home and at your own pace. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 02:57:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h386voMX028505 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385w4Ko019142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385w3xY001817; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385w0xY001793 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.244.181.21.dial1.newyork2.level3.net ([209.244.181.21] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192m7L-0000OP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:57:59 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407130410.04518ea0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:08:30 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Gabled headdresses? (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: >OCC: I don't remember seeing a supportasse in the V&A, but then, I only >had a few hours there, and that was pretty much spent frantically >photographing things in the textile rooms. I do remember seeing, >however, two metal frameworks for english gable headresses at the MoL. <*perking up*> Did you manage to photograph those frameworks? Do they look anything like Jean's frame? <*insert cartoonish begging and annoying sounds and motions*> I did my first English hood last year based on the instructions on Jean's page, and would certainly be interested in the info... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 02:58:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h386w1MX028548 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385wBKo019156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385wBxY001869; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h385w2xY001804 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.244.181.21.dial1.newyork2.level3.net ([209.244.181.21] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192m7M-0000OP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:58:01 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407135554.04518ea0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:05:44 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Renfaire costuming accuracy (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Surcoat fabric-Statues and Orders for Apparel) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike T. wrote: >The Faires that I have seen in the past few years (New Jersey at Somerset, >New York at Sterling South, Would that be the New York Renaissance Festival at Sterling Forest (Tuxedo, NY) or the Sterling Renaissance Festival? >Pennsylvania and Maryland) have somewhat improved I've heard some really awful things about REC, but the one thing I *can* say is that since they've bought out/taken over NYRF, there's less out-and-out fantasy and more of an attempt (often bungled, frequently deliberately-manipulated, but an attempt) to show something that could possibly have, maybe, been historical. The Gypsies and the Robin Hood story line still rattle me (as did that "International Trade Conference" storyline of a couple of years ago), but then again you have to go with what you have, and the Robin Hood group and the Gypsies have been around that faire for years... >...and some, like Md., have associated reenactment groups with historical >clothing standards. Whoa... this sounds interesting. Unfortunately I only get to Maryland for Scottish Weekend :( >I know the Cali. Faires are much better in this respect than others. I've been told that they've gone considerably downhill since REC bought them out. Anyone familiar with care to comment? >I still note, though, ideas that are mentioned, such as having the >customers up close to you, which would prevent some of the more obvious >Theatrical costuming shortcuts (hot glue I think hot glue *could* be made to work... not that any of us would *prefer* it to work, mind you... >Don't take me wrong, I am thrilled to know that the situation is >improving, but I was just noting that it had a long way to go, and a lot >of people to convince, before the whole package can be considered >Historical Costume moreso than Theatrical (only my opinion). Mike, you're not the only one. BTW, you've pretty much mentioned all the faires I attend. Are you by chance located in the Eastern-or-Metro NY/NJ/Eastern PA corridor? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 05:47:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h389lvMX030734 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:47:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h388m2Ko026038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h388lwXv029907; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail011.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail011.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h388lsXv029873 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h388lmH08428 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:47:48 +1000 Message-ID: <02f801c2fdab$ca3dfc10$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:46:41 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: > I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. If you think Titanic was the dumbest "epic" ever made all I can say is you need to get out and see more movies! Try watching The Patriot if you want a "dumb epic". Far worse that Titanic. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 05:54:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h389sWMX030755 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:54:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h388r1Ko026235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h388r1Xv001861; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail007.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail007.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h388quXv001827 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h388qoa02680 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:52:50 +1000 Message-ID: <033c01c2fdac$7e1b8450$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407155606.02c845c0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:53:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Kimiko Small" > Personally, I enjoyed the movie. I took it for what it was, entertainment > on a Christmas Day with my boyfriend (now husband), cried at the tear > jerkers, enjoyed the storyline, loved all the dresses, and when I went home > I did some more research into the real story of the Titanic. Having been amateur Titanic historian for some 20 odd years now I looked forward to seeing the movie when it came out and have seen it several times since. I've seen nearly all the Titanic movies including A Night to Remember and I was aware that David Warner (the valet) had appeared on a previous Titanic movie called SOS Titanic. While watching diCaprio drown was almost worth repeat viewings it was the attention to detail that Cameron put into the film that really impressed me. Not merely content with redressing the Queen Mary or dragging some old sailor suits out of the wardrobe the detail was found in just about everything. As far as accuracy goes with the exception of the fictitious family and their 3rd class interloper pretty much everything else was spot on. Things like the men standing on the capsized lifeboat for 4 hours was filmed but never made it to the final cut. It's not a great historical documentary but then it was never intended to be one either. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 07:32:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38BWNMX030994 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:32:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38AVxKo001168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 04:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38AVvJ6029402; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 04:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40012.mail.yahoo.com (web40012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h38AVsJ6029361 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 04:31:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030408103148.34239.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:31:48 BST Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:31:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat attributed to QE I To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200303301027.h2UAQtvX022487@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apologies for being so very behind with my email so I don't know if anyone has answered this question yet. > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:53:13 -0600 > From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > Greetings, > > There is a flat-shallow-crowned, broad-brimmed hat, apparently made of lace > which is attributed to QEI. (There is a picture of it in "An Elizabethan > Progress" by Zillah Dovey.) Does anyone know more about it - it appears to > be very 18th century looking to me. The knitted (?) stockings depicted > with it also seem a bit suspect to me. There is no provenance listed in > this source, nor any reference to where they are held. > > Any additional info would be appreciated. It's a bit hard to know for certain from your description but I would say this sounds like the hat, stockings (and gloves) purported to be the property of Elizabeth I currently held at Hatfield House (UK). If you had a picture I could say for certain. If they are then they are on display in the house. Hope that helps, Rachel __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 08:35:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38CZZMX031185 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:35:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38BZmKo004126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38BZjUZ021317; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38BZhUZ021312 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:35:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.77.46.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.77.46] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192rOA-0007Dy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 04:35:42 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408072159.0652cbf8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:35:37 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Lisa Sinervo" wrote: >You know, I bet there would be some money in publishing >costume data bases, not just books. It would be great to buy a CD by >fashion period, with the correct fabric samples, buttons, portraits >etc....... wouldn't that be grand! Now, *physical* samples would be difficult... However, the rest of it? I work for a living creating records for an online database. I may not have the extensive costuming background most of you have, but a database, I can understand. Well, maybe not to do a lot of extensive programming in a DBMS, but I can understand structure, and I can do abstracting, indexing, and bibliographic citation. Additionally, my ultimate employer (the owner of the big database company for which I work in a small, endangered division) is always interested in acquiring and/or developing new databases, so if it's something sufficiently useful, perhaps I can pitch it up the chain of command. (Or if we end up being shafted and our file migrated elsewhere, it might be something I could/should start in on to "make ends meet"...) The biggest question I'd have would be, how many people would be willing to pay how much for this sort of thing? Subscriptions to engineering databases run into the thousands of dollars per year; I wouldn't expect a clothing and costuming database to run much cheaper than that, if done as a profit-making venture. If this type of expense sounds reasonable to that proportion of you who would be interested in this sort of product, where would I (1) begin market research, (2) find source materials, and (3) get permissions to include those source materials in such a database? --Still an egg, but with ideas of what a hen might be able to do... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 08:42:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38Cg2MX031208 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:42:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38BgBKo004277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38BgAUZ023362; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Bg7UZ023337 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.77.46.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.77.46] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192rUM-0004id-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 04:42:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408073844.04c0d008@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:42:01 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: Wired supportasses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie Schuessler > > This sounds not too unfamiliar. There was a cotton "ruff" (actually a > > pleated-flat collar) with lace trim in the Metropolitan Museum of Art's > > "Extreme Beauty" exhibition last fall (unfortunately, it is not in the > > collection catalogue -- nor is it in the books with their usual > listings of > > acquisitions, nor can it be found in their general database...). >That's because, for reasons best known to those responsible, both ruff >and supportasse reside in the European Sculpture and Decorative Arts >collection as part of the Antonio Ratti Textile Center. And yet it has a Metropolitan Museum of Art accession number? And was not listed in the exhibit as "on loan from..." or "a gift of..." or "from the .... collection/museum/foundation/etc."? I should like to think that we are talking about two very similar items, not a single item whose ownership and location is claimed-or-ignored by two different institutions... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 08:44:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38CisMX031216 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:44:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Bj2Ko004364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Bj1UZ024223; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38BixUZ024191 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.105] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A368833C00FE; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:32:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c2fdc3$7f1c3400$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030408103148.34239.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat attributed to QE I Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:38:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] hat attributed to QE I > Apologies for being so very behind with my email so I don't know if anyone has answered this > question yet. > > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:53:13 -0600 > > From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > > Greetings, > > > > There is a flat-shallow-crowned, broad-brimmed hat, apparently made of lace > > which is attributed to QEI. (There is a picture of it in "An Elizabethan > > Progress" by Zillah Dovey.) Does anyone know more about it - it appears to > > be very 18th century looking to me. The knitted (?) stockings depicted > > with it also seem a bit suspect to me. There is no provenance listed in > > this source, nor any reference to where they are held. > > > > Any additional info would be appreciated. > > It's a bit hard to know for certain from your description but I would say this sounds like the > hat, stockings (and gloves) purported to be the property of Elizabeth I currently held at Hatfield > House (UK). If you had a picture I could say for certain. If they are then they are on display > in the house. > > Hope that helps, > Rachel > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 09:48:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38DmgMX031549 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38CmgKo007355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38CmeO0015451; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38CmaO0015423 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0176.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.176] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192sWh-00027H-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:48:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3E92E135.8E491299@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:48:25 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: Wired supportasses References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408073844.04c0d008@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brenda Bell wrote: > > Melanie Schuessler > > > > This sounds not too unfamiliar. There was a cotton "ruff" (actually a > > > pleated-flat collar) with lace trim in the Metropolitan Museum of Art's > > > "Extreme Beauty" exhibition last fall (unfortunately, it is not in the > > > collection catalogue -- nor is it in the books with their usual > > listings of > > > acquisitions, nor can it be found in their general database...). > >That's because, for reasons best known to those responsible, both ruff > >and supportasse reside in the European Sculpture and Decorative Arts > >collection as part of the Antonio Ratti Textile Center. > > And yet it has a Metropolitan Museum of Art accession number? And was not > listed in the exhibit as "on loan from..." or "a gift of..." or "from the > .... collection/museum/foundation/etc."? I should like to think that we are > talking about two very similar items, not a single item whose ownership and > location is claimed-or-ignored by two different institutions... Sorry, I wasn't clear. The ruff and supportasse belong to the Antonio Ratti Textile Center, which is part of the European Sculpture and Decorative Arts Collection, which is part of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. What I meant to point out is that they are in this other collection rather than in the Costume Institute. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 09:51:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38DpkMX031595 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38CpuKo007533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38CpuO0016697; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38CprO0016665 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:51:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0176.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.176] helo=faucet.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192sZs-0007J5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:51:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3E92E1FA.952E30A1@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:51:41 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408072159.0652cbf8@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brenda Bell wrote: > > The biggest question I'd have would be, how many people would be willing to > pay how much for this sort of thing? Subscriptions to engineering databases > run into the thousands of dollars per year; I wouldn't expect a clothing > and costuming database to run much cheaper than that, if done as a > profit-making venture. I don't know of very many people/institutions that would be willing to pay that sort of money. I think a more cost-effective way of doing it would be to publish them on CD and sell the CDs, rather than running an online service. That way, people could afford it, and it wouldn't have upkeep costs. While of course one monolithic database with _everything_ in it would be the most useful way to go, it doesn't sound affordable. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 10:11:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38EBuMX031729 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:11:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DAhKo008578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DAgd7023599; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DAcd7023570 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AA4DDE4400D6; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:10:37 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA4C93C00F6; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:10:36 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c2fdd0$0be6dfa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408072159.0652cbf8@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases (long) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:09:10 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can tell you that most museums are opposed to selling CDs of their collections because of how easily they can be copied. I have discussed this with some curators. There images sold for use are their biggest money makers, other than donations. If they put their images on CDs, they become fair game for thief on the internet. Another factor to consider... anytime you are dealing with color on a computer it is a very difficult thing to match. Computer screens display color differently. The more ram you are using the lower the color fades. I have experienced this, just this morning. I have checked into the options of publishing color swatches for my color research. Publishers say this is a very costly venture. The more color in a book, the higher the price. I was told by one publisher if I had books published in the manner I want, the retail cost would have to be in the $1,000 per book range. I don't know many people who would be able to pay that much. One thing I can tell you to hire a database architect is big money. My husband is one semester away from getting his masters degree in this and we know the salary range for our section of the U.S. Let's just say it isn't cheap. On top of that, he is getting his second masters in networking in Dec. 2003. Thank goodness, this ten year adventure is FINALLY coming to an end. He is at the high stress point of the semester and driving us crazy. Personally I don't see the costuming world coming up with the kind of money it has to develop this kind of project except if you had some major backers like the Smithsonian or Met. With the funding of the arts and museum being cut back so much, I don't see museums backing large projects like this. I was recently talking with some industry professionals in the museum world and was informed that a lot of collections are on the line right now. I won't go into any detail. It was a private conversation. When museums start losing money, they have to start selling off things to stay alive. Not only that, many universities are cutting costume history classes. Some are cutting down to one semester and some are cutting the classes all together. When you look at the grand scheme of things... when local, state, and federal budgets start getting tight, the arts are the first thing that are cut out of the budget. Maybe when the economy becomes more stable, approaching an educational institution or large museum would be appropriate time to jump in and ask. But I think it is going to take a long time for the arts community to recover. They are the first ones cut, and the last ones to receive. As another alternate, you might consider grants. Costume is wonderful that it falls under art and history. I have been researching grants for the past couple of years. Most grantors either want you to be a non-profit organization or a student working on a thesis at the upper college levels. Another thing about grants... most want you to show other means of support other than just their grant. This has to be written into the grant's budget proposal. It is a tough nut to crack but it can be done if the situation is right and the proposal is excellent. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 10:12:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38ECpMX031732 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DBkKo008684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DBjd7024061; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:11:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DBgd7024038 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-003-054.jps.net ([216.119.3.54] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192st2-0000sD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 06:11:41 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c2fdd2$04008e60$360377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408072159.0652cbf8@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:23:14 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It'd be worth looking into Brenda, but as for cost, thousands would be too high a ticket price for me. It would depend on what was in the database though too. I would probably subscribe to an online data base and pay for access, more likely that I would pay per search as needed then a pricey annual subscription, but it all depends. Or I would be happy to pay for additional data to add to my existing data base, such as info from wills etc. My costume library has been rapidly growing after being pretty much wiped out in the from overseas move and it is getting to the point where to be used effectively a database is required. Although my faire shop and web page are the priority now, starting to enter info on my Access database is around the corner. It's going to be great for personal use, but I've got copyright material from books that I don't care enough to pay permissions for, so sharing it on the web is out of the question only for that reason. I, personally, don't mind sharing all my info without fees because I see myself primarily as a costumer/supplier and so the more info I give to people the less time I have to spend talking to them about the basics of their garments and the more time I have for sewing/designing etc. A web site with loads of research info is the "window display" for an online fabric/notions shop. Plus I have this underlying agenda about having people feel better about themselves which overrides some of my commercial decisions and it would be nice if the Ren Faire standards improved and the best way to influence that is to provide info in a fun way that people can access and use. But for someone who earns their living by research, I would not expect that the data would be distributed for free and I would be willing to pay for the info they have collected. It would be nice for me to have my own Access database and have others sell data in a form that I could add to it like I would another book to my library. Or share info this way perhaps. Copyright is ALWAYS a problem!!! Keep the wheels churning Brenda, I be a potential customer. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Bell" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:35 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases > "Lisa Sinervo" wrote: > > >You know, I bet there would be some money in publishing > >costume data bases, not just books. It would be great to buy a CD by > >fashion period, with the correct fabric samples, buttons, portraits > >etc....... wouldn't that be grand! > > Now, *physical* samples would be difficult... > > However, the rest of it? I work for a living creating records for an online > database. I may not have the extensive costuming background most of you > have, but a database, I can understand. Well, maybe not to do a lot of > extensive programming in a DBMS, but I can understand structure, and I can > do abstracting, indexing, and bibliographic citation. Additionally, my > ultimate employer (the owner of the big database company for which I work > in a small, endangered division) is always interested in acquiring and/or > developing new databases, so if it's something sufficiently useful, perhaps > I can pitch it up the chain of command. (Or if we end up being shafted and > our file migrated elsewhere, it might be something I could/should start in > on to "make ends meet"...) > > The biggest question I'd have would be, how many people would be willing to > pay how much for this sort of thing? Subscriptions to engineering databases > run into the thousands of dollars per year; I wouldn't expect a clothing > and costuming database to run much cheaper than that, if done as a > profit-making venture. > > If this type of expense sounds reasonable to that proportion of you who > would be interested in this sort of product, where would I (1) begin market > research, (2) find source materials, and (3) get permissions to include > those source materials in such a database? > > > --Still an egg, but with ideas of what a hen might be able to do... > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 10:36:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38EaOMX031793 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:36:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DaRKo010516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DaNd7006639; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:36:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DaId7006525 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-003-054.jps.net ([216.119.3.54] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 192tGq-0002Zb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 06:36:17 -0700 Message-ID: <006c01c2fdd5$751d21a0$360377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408072159.0652cbf8@mail.earthlink.net> <000f01c2fdd0$0be6dfa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases (long) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 06:47:53 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny wrote: > I can tell you that most museums are opposed to selling CDs of their > collections because of how easily they can be copied. I have discussed this > with some curators. There images sold for use are their biggest money > makers, other than donations. If they put their images on CDs, they become > fair game for thief on the internet. > I don't see this happening either. But what about book publishers including some data on a CD with the books they produce? Dover does that with their clip art books. That would be nice. Wouldn't have to be the whole book, just some searchable data. Or even encouraging students sell their data after they have completed their degrees? I think encouraging small time players to sell their bits of info would be a smart more. CD's aren't expensive to produce and the research would have been undertaken for alternate reasons anyway. It might not be a money maker on a large scale for a conglomerate, but some individuals could pick up a few dollars selling their data, perhaps not databases, and the costumer could incorporate it into their databases as desired. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 10:40:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38EebMX031805 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:40:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DelKo010951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Dejd7010417; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:40:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h38Defd7010294 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:40:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030408134036.12678.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:40:36 BST Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:40:36 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000f01c2fdd0$0be6dfa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just as an aside, from my own experience: costume is not taken seriously, certainly not in History. Few, very few HE's allow MPhil's or PhD's in nothing but costume studies, instead it is usually needed to go into Economic History, Social History, Women's Studies (the latter is my focus-besides-costume) etc. Regarding databases, we here can't even afford the Early Modern English Books Online database, instead we have to sneak access, it is several thousands as well, and we certainly are not a poor place of HE. The problem with historical costume studies is the many people who went before and 'mucked it up' for the serious researcher: James Laver, Iris Brook, Herbert Norris, to name but a few who did not leave sound published material. People like Norah Waugh and Janet Arnold or even Susan North and certainly Valerie Cummings are in a better category, but I have spoken to Historians who say 'yes, but they merely study the costumes, and they don't put them into the proper historic context most of the time'. It's all quite messed up and rather sad, even the word 'costume' has a very negative and 'awww cutsie' and certainly not-to-be-talen-seriously connotation. All of the above is my own personal experience here in UK in HE, maybe it is different in the US, I don't know. So, in summary, while it is all a wonderful idea, I will throw in my pessimistic voice here that says "it is never going to happen". Remember the h-costume website idea? I said back then "it s never going to happen" - being realistic - and it never did happen. Someone prove me wrong and get a database going, I'd be indebted forever, it would certainly cut down on Archives time. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 10:43:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38EhrMX031819 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:43:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Di0Ko011220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Dhxd7012996; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:43:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38DfCd7010737 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:41:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m41.in-tch.com [216.166.191.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h38DNP924184 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E92D1BB.398273E@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:42:20 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <02f801c2fdab$ca3dfc10$18a231d2@valadan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, now, I *liked* the Patriot, but then, I'll watch just about any movie to watch Mel Gibson. --sue Baralier wrote: > > From: > > I thought the WHOLE FILM was gratuitus...:-P Dumbest "epic" ever made. > > If you think Titanic was the dumbest "epic" ever made all I can say is you > need to get out and see more movies! > > Try watching The Patriot if you want a "dumb epic". Far worse that Titanic. > > Paul > -- > It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky > http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder > Costumier & Reprobate > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 11:00:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38F0nMX031864 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E0HKo012818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E0GYL025587; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:00:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E0DYL025455 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m41.in-tch.com [216.166.191.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h38DgQ902302 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E92D631.705FBFF1@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:01:21 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Gabled headdresses? (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407130410.04518ea0@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The MoL was death on photographs, and I was actually going to try to sneak back and take a non-flash quickie with my digital, but *right then*, some idiot took a picture in the same area with a flash, and there were too many security-types. *sigh* I don't know what Jean's frame looks like....do you have a link? A friend of mine and I made sketches, though. They looked to be made of a wire just a *tidge* heavier than the wire used for clothes-hangers, and the wire was continuous, but bent into the appropriate shape. And it was definitely a 3-dimensional framework...the wire would start on the bottom on one side, go up over the top and down to the other side in a gable-shape, make a 90-degree bend, and repeat the process a couple of times. Very, very easy and straight-forward, actually. I'm imagining that it formed a framework for a stretched linen or fabric base for the hat, in much the same way that one makes a kite or a lamp-shade. So...is that clearer than mud? --sue, off to get ready for work...blech..... Brenda Bell wrote: > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > >OCC: I don't remember seeing a supportasse in the V&A, but then, I only > >had a few hours there, and that was pretty much spent frantically > >photographing things in the textile rooms. I do remember seeing, > >however, two metal frameworks for english gable headresses at the MoL. > > <*perking up*> > Did you manage to photograph those frameworks? Do they look anything like > Jean's frame? <*insert cartoonish begging and annoying sounds and motions*> > > I did my first English hood last year based on the instructions on Jean's > page, and would certainly be interested in the info... > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 11:05:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38F58MX031876 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:05:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E4xKo013206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E4wYL028704; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E4tYL028651 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [167.142.12.150] (HELO herselftifhj9g) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 300071063 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:04:54 -0500 Message-ID: <012d01c2fdd7$d465ea00$960c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030408134036.12678.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:04:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It's all quite messed up and rather sad, even the word 'costume' has a very > negative and 'awww cutsie' and certainly not-to-be-talen-seriously connotation. > Maybe there needs to be a movement to change the name by which we refer to this field? Instead of costume, or historical costume we could use... Period Apparel Historic Garments Time and Class Dependant Textiles Culture Related Textile Constructions Hey! It's the age of Political Correctness and double speak. Surely someone can come up with a good alternative. :-) Denise landofoz@netins.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 11:10:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38FADMX031885 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:10:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E9dKo013624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E9cYL001452; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38E9ZYL001337 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:09:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp03-194.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.122.194]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C67BE865 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:09:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3E92D875.1060708@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 16:11:01 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Looking for inflatable Dress form References: <3.0.6.32.20030407081427.00836ec0@pop.directcon.net> <004301c2fd7b$9b18e560$250856d1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, They look great! Unfortionally the Min. order of each item are not less than 1,000pcs. Ieek! I found inflatebel dolls that are quite cheep but I find them ugly. http//www.darksidedisplays.com/inflatables.htm And I am not sure I like to see an "adult" inflatable doll with my weddingdress on :-[ . And I really don't want to think of how to attach a stand.... :-[ :-[ 19 April I wil go to a bridal shop :-) . I am going to make a bridal gown for someone and we are going to see wat look wel on her. I will ask them if they have inflatable Dress forms. Thanks for the idea Greetings, Deredere Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >Try this: >http://www.ourbooklet.com/mannequins.htm >:-) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lisa Sinervo" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:04 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form > > > > >>you know, I suspect you could get one of those "blow up dress forms" from >> >> >an > > >>"adult shop". Didn't Dudley Moore have one of those in "Foul Play"? >> >>just trying to be helpful :) >> >>Lisa >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Margo Anderson" >>To: "Historical Costume" ; "H-Costume" >> >>Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:14 AM >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress form >> >> >> >> >>>>Wouldn't it be nice to have a torso that you can blow up like a >>>> >>>> >balloon? > > >>>>Just put it in your costume and then blow it up to the right size.... >>>>And maby a hook on it so you can hang it. >>>>I know you can buy them with only the schoulders.... >>>> >>>> >>>There is such a thing, at least there used to be 15 years ago when I was >>>working in the bridal business. Maybe a bridal store could order one >>> >>> >for > > >>you? >> >> >>>Margo >>> >>>"One Tough Costumer" >>>http://www.margospatterns.com >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 11:23:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38FN5MX031912 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:23:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EN4Ko014797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EN3YL008377; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EN0YL008279 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.4e.1a71ab0c (17526) for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:22:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <4e.1a71ab0c.2bc4353a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:22:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/8/2003 4:48:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, baralier@optusnet.com.au writes: > Try watching The Patriot if you want a "dumb epic". Far worse that Titanic. > Indeed! But it has better costumes, IMHO....even though I doubt ladies fell asleep reading late at night in huge panniers [about the only thing I remember] I don't really like the costumes in Titanic. That opening hat was great but the suit under it was awful. The light stripe on dark ground alternating with dark stripe on light ground is like some high school project. That yellow thing she gets her spitting lesson in looks like it has puffer paint on the shoulders. I don't even think the "jump" dress is so great. All of Rose's clothes had the wrong silhouette and there was a lack of understanding of the "feel" of the period. The Mother's stuff was good, but I think she's wearing real things. Now "Wings of the Dove" captures what an avant guard young lady of wealth would be wearing in that period. Rose, even if the shape had been correct, was utterly conventional. She didn't own even ONE Fortuni dress! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 11:26:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38FQ9MX031922 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:26:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EQFKo015053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EQFYL009908; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EQ7YL009783 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.2b.3d071db4 (17526) for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:25:38 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.3d071db4.2bc435e2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:25:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/8/2003 4:56:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, baralier@optusnet.com.au writes: > It's not a great historical documentary but then it was never intended to be > one either. > Then why reproduce the china....just to break it all. The real problem with the film is James Cameron's ego. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 11:49:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38FnnMX032064 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EnWKo017203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EnUYL023553; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.175]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EnRYL023486 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:49:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h38EnLb16933 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:49:21 +1000 Message-ID: <003701c2fdde$4cc7e150$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4e.1a71ab0c.2bc4353a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:48:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: > baralier@optusnet.com.au writes: > > Try watching The Patriot if you want a "dumb epic". Far worse that Titanic. > > Indeed! But it has better costumes, IMHO.... I find it rather ironic that you claim Titanic didn't have the "feel" of the period and yet say a film like the Patriot had better costumes. Better *looking* costumes perhaps? Because they're about as accurate as Gibson's previous epic of Bravheart. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 11:58:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38FwIMX032118 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:58:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EwDKo018200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38EwBAo029244; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Ew5Ao029123 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD100JCI5HQTL@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:59:29 -0500 From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E92E3D1.8090901@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 Subject: [h-cost] Inflatable dolls, foam duct tape X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have 2 of those adult dolls.... I purchased them when we needed something to put inside mermaid costumes when we painted the fabric. They are way to small for most applications and the shoulders have no definition to them, so they most likely would not be suitable to display anything other than perhaps a childs outfit. Which would be just wrong somehow... And the duct tape mannequins do not hold their shape well enough to move them around too much. After my initial fiasco years ago with trying to fill it with perlite (it kept absorbing moisture from my basement), I did try filling it with foam. The problem with that is you can't really control the amount of expansion in the foam which causes it to have odd unexpected lumps. I did it in a series of applications, filling in layers from the bottom to the top. If I do it again, I think the way to fill it is in layers, but lay it on its side and spray a layer all around the inside walls, let it set up and get firm. Then you would have an inner shell to help it keep its shape. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 12:25:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38GPqMX032247 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:25:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FPOKo021148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FPOAo016952; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FP7Ao016780 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip203.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.203]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ABC96DA14 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:25:06 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:25:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3E928763.566.3EB00093@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407130410.04518ea0@mail.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gabled headdresses? (WAS: Re: Queen Anne Dress) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > >OCC: I don't remember seeing a supportasse in the V&A, but then, I > >only had a few hours there, and that was pretty much spent > >frantically photographing things in the textile rooms. I do remember > >seeing, however, two metal frameworks for english gable headresses at > >the MoL. > > <*perking up*> > Did you manage to photograph those frameworks? Do they look anything > like Jean's frame? <*insert cartoonish begging and annoying sounds and > motions*> > > I did my first English hood last year based on the instructions on > Jean's page, and would certainly be interested in the info... Unless she lost it, she has at least one photograph of them because she once sent it to me. I have photos of both of them from an appointment I had at the MOL, plus some of their other headdress wires. Jean, do you still have copies of our correspondance? Mine was all lost in an email disaster (my husband reformatted my drive without checking to see if my mail was saved. Big problem!) The supportasse was downstairs in the costume room where they have full costumes set up. I've been told that it is no longer on display. (Pity, as it and the 1540 boy's embroidered shirt were both there in the same cabinet and apparently anything that was there is not now. Fortunately, I got lots of pictures but that doesn't help you guys much since I don't have easy web page access.) The textile museum (where I spent a lot of time as well) is upstairs, well away from the costume area. (Most of the costume area is modern stuff. But there was one nice 18th C gown while I was there.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 12:26:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38GQ8MX032250 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:26:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FP7Ko021117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FP5Ao016754; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FP1Ao016683 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip203.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.203]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0646DA14 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:24:59 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:25:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Message-ID: <3E928762.22318.3EAFFD66@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030408134036.12678.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000f01c2fdd0$0be6dfa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Just as an aside, from my own experience: costume is not taken > seriously, certainly not in History. Few, very few HE's allow MPhil's > or PhD's in nothing but costume studies, instead it is usually needed > to go into Economic History, Social History, Women's Studies (the > latter is my focus-besides-costume) etc. You mean they don't even get respect if it's a textile degree. Shoot, even in the "dark ages of women's academics" they had that. > The problem with historical costume studies is the many people who > went before and 'mucked it up' for the serious researcher: James > Laver, Iris Brook, Herbert Norris, to name but a few who did not leave > sound published material. They were more aimed at the theatrical costumer. > People like Norah Waugh and Janet Arnold or even Susan North and > certainly Valerie Cummings are in a better category, but I have spoken > to Historians who say 'yes, but they merely study the costumes, and > they don't put them into the proper historic context most of the > time'. Argh! I agree that you need to put it in historic context, but Janet Arnold and the others did write about how it was set in real history (as opposed to theatrical costumers who just want the pretty.) > It's all quite messed up and rather sad, even the word 'costume' has a > very negative and 'awww cutsie' and certainly > not-to-be-talen-seriously connotation. It's inclusion in "Women's Studies" may be a clue to the reason. It's easier to shunt off that way so that people don't have to take it seriously. "It's a woman's thing". So where does that leave all the male tailors? Male embroiderers? Etc. What about the modern males who do costuming (Teddy comes to mind first but I know many men who do costuming.) In the US, if it isn't part of a theatrical degree you see it far more often in either Art History or as a Textile degree. And at least those make more sense to me than the history degrees or *shudder* women's studies. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 12:27:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38GRnMX032259 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:27:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FPVKo021171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FPVAo017022; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FPCAo016839 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip203.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.203]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BEC76DA1A for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:25:11 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:25:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Gabled headdresses? (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) Message-ID: <3E928761.19159.3EAFF930@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3E92D631.705FBFF1@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The MoL was death on photographs, and I was actually going to try to > sneak back and take a non-flash quickie with my digital, but *right > then*, some idiot took a picture in the same area with a flash, and > there were too many security-types. How weird. Things have sure changed since 1999. It was a security type who came up to me and *told* me to use a flash, since it would be better with the low light! (Tripods were not allowed, but flash was definitely encouraged.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 12:34:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38GYsMX032296 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:34:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FYWKo022126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FYVAo022709; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f67.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FYSAo022622 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:34:22 -0700 Received: from 151.199.137.80 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 15:34:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.137.80] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:34:22 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2003 15:34:22.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[5462FF20:01C2FDE4] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't there a database system for legal decisions? I seem to remember clients being billed for the time spent searching for applicable cases. Perhaps all the costume info could be entered by whomever has it, and then when someone searches for something they pay per hit? So if I wanted to see every woman's Italian garment, in any medium or text, between 1250 and 1495, and I got 3,000 hits, I could decide if I wanted to pay for all of them, or limit the search further and pay for the ones I actually look at, and pay a central company that pays out to the various museums, scholars etc. whose work/info I use. Would this solve the copyright problem? And for a name, we could call it "Clothing as a reflection or indicator of physical and temporal location, economic status, religious belief, and personal choice" or CRIPTLERP for short. Just a thought. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Brenda Bell >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:35:37 >-0400 > >"Lisa Sinervo" wrote: > >>You know, I bet there would be some money in publishing >>costume data bases, not just books. It would be great to buy a CD by >>fashion period, with the correct fabric samples, buttons, portraits >>etc....... wouldn't that be grand! > >Now, *physical* samples would be difficult... > >However, the rest of it? I work for a living creating records for an online >database. I may not have the extensive costuming background most of you >have, but a database, I can understand. Well, maybe not to do a lot of >extensive programming in a DBMS, but I can understand structure, and I can >do abstracting, indexing, and bibliographic citation. Additionally, my >ultimate employer (the owner of the big database company for which I work >in a small, endangered division) is always interested in acquiring and/or >developing new databases, so if it's something sufficiently useful, perhaps >I can pitch it up the chain of command. (Or if we end up being shafted and >our file migrated elsewhere, it might be something I could/should start in >on to "make ends meet"...) > >The biggest question I'd have would be, how many people would be willing to >pay how much for this sort of thing? Subscriptions to engineering databases >run into the thousands of dollars per year; I wouldn't expect a clothing >and costuming database to run much cheaper than that, if done as a >profit-making venture. > >If this type of expense sounds reasonable to that proportion of you who >would be interested in this sort of product, where would I (1) begin market >research, (2) find source materials, and (3) get permissions to include >those source materials in such a database? > > >--Still an egg, but with ideas of what a hen might be able to do... > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 12:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38GhOMX032346 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FgjKo022961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38FghAo028313; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h38FgeAo028238 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030408154235.50283.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 16:42:35 BST Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:42:35 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3E928762.22318.3EAFFD66@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > You mean they don't even get respect if it's a textile degree. Shoot, > even in the "dark ages of women's academics" they had that. The ones I talked to only 'knew' the Courtauld Institute. > They were more aimed at the theatrical costumer. and that is the problem, you can find those books in our libraries, but good books? Rarely. Anything by Cummings or North? Nope. > Argh! I agree that you need to put it in historic context, but Janet > Arnold and the others did write about how it was set in real history > (as opposed to theatrical costumers who just want the pretty.) Well, but was it in a 'social context' 'economic context' etc etc etc. I only repeat here what I heard others comment and stir it up a bit. > It's inclusion in "Women's Studies" may be a clue to the reason. It's Actualy, no, no, it's the other way round. It becomes acceptable whenit is included in Early Modern Women's Studies as I do. If it were not included in 'proper' historic studies (harharhar, what is proper and what isn't?) then it would not be 'accepted'. > easier to shunt off that way so that people don't have to take it > seriously. "It's a woman's thing". So where does that leave all the > male tailors? Male embroiderers? Etc. What about the modern males who > do costuming (Teddy comes to mind first but I know many men who do > costuming.) No Kat, you misunderstood, this is actually NOT the problem. > In the US, if it isn't part of a theatrical degree you see it far > more often in either Art History or as a Textile degree. And at least > those make more sense to me than the history degrees or *shudder* > women's studies. Why Shudder????! Anything wrong with women's studies? My PhD research is on Women's Fashion, Gender and Social Status in Later Stuart England 1660-1714 and it is within the History department, and specialises in early modern English women studies (my supervisor is big in this) and was accepted without a hitch (was actually only one of three of a couple dozens that was accepted without alterations :-) You could also put it into Social Studies, that's where a lot of Fashion studies is in. Anyway, I am quite happy battling against any stupid comments by any academic and can be a LOT more arrogant if I need be than they are *laughs* All in all, I just wanted to give an overview of the possible problems, but it may be different somewhere else, it may be different in manchester or London or Edinburgh from Kent! Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 14:17:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38IHKMX000457 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:17:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HH3Ko003216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HH04h003606; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HGu4h003516 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.40.2dcb114c (3890) for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:16:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <40.2dcb114c.2bc45dfd@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:16:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/8/2003 10:51:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, baralier@optusnet.com.au writes: > Better *looking* costumes perhaps? That's exactly what I mean. I'm not an accuracy nut. I like an "historically informed" film, but accuracy doesn't always work. It depends on the story. That and I have a thing for the 18th century. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 14:18:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38IIEMX000464 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:18:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HHqKo003341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:17:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HHp4h004370; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HHj4h004212 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com (c-24-245-41-166.mn.client2.attbi.com[24.245.41.166]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20030408171739051003vg44e>; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:17:39 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030408121628.0304f860@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 12:19:59 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: Gabled headdresses? (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) In-Reply-To: <3E928761.19159.3EAFF930@localhost> References: <3E92D631.705FBFF1@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:25 AM 4/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > The MoL was death on photographs, and I was actually going to try to > > sneak back and take a non-flash quickie with my digital, but *right > > then*, some idiot took a picture in the same area with a flash, and > > there were too many security-types. > >How weird. Things have sure changed since 1999. It was a security >type who came up to me and *told* me to use a flash, since it would >be better with the low light! (Tripods were not allowed, but flash >was definitely encouraged.) > >Kat > The change has only been in the past year - Jan 2002 no problem, Jan 2003 no photos. Apparently (I had this from the textile curator), the MoL discovered a website or multiple websites (can't remember which) with very poor quality photographs of some of their collection. Apparently these websites were negatively affecting the museum image so the slapped a ban on all photography (unless you get specific permission and sign a waiver). So, if you want to take photos there, contact the museum ahead of time and you can probably get permission to take some photos of a specific area or item. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 14:44:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38Ii6MX000614 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:44:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HhfKo005871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38Hhc4h022102; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HhZ4h022050 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip202.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.202]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6896A8DC for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:43:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Message-ID: <3E92A7BC.3929.3F2E5E8C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030408154235.50283.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E928762.22318.3EAFFD66@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Argh! I agree that you need to put it in historic context, but Janet > > Arnold and the others did write about how it was set in real history > > (as opposed to theatrical costumers who just want the pretty.) > > Well, but was it in a 'social context' 'economic context' etc etc etc. > I only repeat here what I heard others comment and stir it up a bit. I think that it's difficult to understand the evolution of costume if one doesn't understand the culture from which it developed. For example, why is it that Florentine women and Venetian women of the early 16th Century were different and why is it inappropriate to take "a little from this culture's clothing and a little from that" to get a new outfit. But when you start understanding the emnity between the two cultures and why they'd strive not to even seem to imitate each other, you start understanding better why a style developed the way it did. Clothing are not just in someone's imagination (except for some of the theatrical stuff). They are developed because of cultural shaping of our minds. (For the same reason that we go "yuck" at some clothing styles and "wow, that's really cool" at others, when the reverse can be said at a different time or place. For example, whoever would think that the clothes of the '60s would return? Or those awful Dynasty style shoulderpads?) > > In the US, if it isn't part of a theatrical degree you see it far > > more often in either Art History or as a Textile degree. And at > > least those make more sense to me than the history degrees or > > *shudder* women's studies. > > Why Shudder????! Anything wrong with women's studies? My PhD research > is on Women's Fashion, Gender and Social Status in Later Stuart > England 1660-1714 and it is within the History department, and > specialises in early modern English women studies (my supervisor is > big in this) and was accepted without a hitch (was actually only one > of three of a couple dozens that was accepted without alterations :-) > You could also put it into Social Studies, that's where a lot of > Fashion studies is in. I guess I'm just against history being separated into "women's history" and "real history". I think that women's history isn't a separate issue. I think that your study shouldn't be shunted off into a "Women's Studies" thing but be right in there with the other history. Putting it with "social history" makes much more sense to me than having it gender specific. (It's a "separate but equal" thing. The more we try to separate things, the easier it is to shunt it aside as not being as important.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 15:00:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38J04MX000686 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:00:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HxnKo007526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HxleR003608; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:59:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38HxheR003540 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16668 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:17:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:17:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases In-Reply-To: <012d01c2fdd7$d465ea00$960c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Land of Oz wrote: > > It's all quite messed up and rather sad, even the word 'costume' has a > > very negative and 'awww cutsie' and certainly > > not-to-be-talen-seriously connotation. > > Maybe there needs to be a movement to change the name by which we > refer to this field? > > Instead of costume, or historical costume we could use... > > Period Apparel > Historic Garments > Time and Class Dependant Textiles > Culture Related Textile Constructions At the medieval studies conferences, my crowd uses "Dress and Textiles" on our session name. That seems to resonate with most of our target groups -- archaeology, art history, economics, literature, etc. We organize our sessions under an umbrella group called "Discussion, Interpretation, and Study of Textile Arts, Fabrics, and Fashion" -- that is, DISTAFF. (I was pretty pleased with myself for coming up with that one. The one disadvantage is that people sometimes assume we're specifically in "women's studies," but those are the people who forget that the actual "distaff" is a textile tool. We do occasionally have to assure people that yes, men are allowed. Men wore half the clothes and helped make a lot of them, and were responsible for a large part of the textile trade, after all.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 15:16:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38JGSMX000748 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:16:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38IGBKo009421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38IGAeR015429; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38IG4eR015282 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Jenniloves2sew@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 7.1a7.1262fe66 (15876) for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d14.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.130]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v92.17) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e043e9311d3171; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:15:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:15:47 -0400 From: Jenniloves2sew@aol.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2D70C5D9.1A0F1086.5582E2BE@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Yahoo Group for historic fashion enthusiasts in/near MA X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello! I have started a new Yahoo Group for people that live in and near Massachusetts who wish to chat with or even meet other people interested in historic fashion & the wearing or recreating of it. I am hoping it will be a good place to share tips on events and local shops and such, as well as to maybe find other folks interested in starting sewing circles or planning get-togethers (trips to museums, whatever). . . If anybody lives in the area and would like to join, I would love to have you! Our membership is 11 and growing quickly : ) Here is the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricFashionMA/ Thanks for your time! -Jenni "Historically Dressed" http://costumes.topcities.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 16:57:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38KuxMX001154 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:57:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38JtlKo019613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:55:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38JtjdK024260; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38JtVdK024002 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:55:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.54.185.111]) by mtaout10.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD100J7FJ9ABA@mtaout10.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 15:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 15:53:59 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E9328D7.1040604@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 References: <200304081340.h38Desd8010561@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renfaire costuming accuracy - MD Ren. Festival X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok... and Brenda, this time around you'll have to make a point of stopping by and saying hello (well, I'll be working Sunday only if I get my wish, but..). Since the current costume mistress started at MDRF, the costuming *has* improved greatly... the folks who have been in charge for that long have a great deal to do with it as well, of course (cringing as I remember a classmate who played a wizard... in Gandalf-ish robes and staff... a bit over 10 years ago). General rule of thumb for MDRF overall is that it should be historical if possible... with some artistic license taken from time to time... with regards to that which involves Cast at least (as opposed to the various other acts). Cindy will admit that she makes costumes, not clothing, but as she's been a re-enactor for years in various periods, she also understands the merits of well made clothing, and clothing that *looks* right, even if more modern shortcuts or materials are used for various reasons (grommets for example). The nobles outfits are now period appearing (though they don't *all* fit properly... they do go from person to person from year to year), the lower class men aren't bad... the lower class women... well, they're not too bad in general, but those tend to have the most artistic leniency, whether toward the "wench" look or comedy (ok, so most of the comedian garb is a bit fantastic... but then again some would have been in period as well). Ok.. that's as far as I can go with that... I'm not a costumer there, just felt like one last year... because I've been in the Guild of St. George for the last 3 seasons... the English re-enactment guild, as opposed to the Landsknecht group that comes in every year (and though there's a fair amount of overlap right now, I'm not one of them... no time). Last year it was decided that most of us would be put into livery to show off for the Queen's Coronation (um... there's that artistic license thing again... Anne Boleyn being coronated in Revel Grove :-) Most of the returning folk decided to make and own our own garb. Margo Anderson's Elizabethian pattern was used for most of the women's... with alterations both for period and class, and for fit... well, actually, I *think* only the bodice and chemise patterns were used... with a *lot* of fit changes for various bodices. For the men it was a combination of a pattern Paula's used for some time for the doublets bodies, with a skirt that was guessed at. Don't know whether or not they'll be used again, all or in part, yet. Caps were from various sources (mine was *based* on the muffin cap/coif pattern on Drea Leed's site... though I had to change both the actual curve of the "brim" and made the back a bit oval to make it fit the head more smoothly). Those costumes that are the Festival's give a reasonable appearance... though I know of at least one that isn't quite right, it's not going to be completely misleading to the general public. Also the standard use of hoops for the gentlewomen for faire is used... for the same temperature (Maryland is quite hot and humid much of the season) and safety (um... ever try to rush from one end of a large village to the other, over dirt roads with both ditches and tree roots with multiple underskirts?) reasons as most faires. Again, grommets are generally used... my handsewn eyelets were the envy of several (still can't believe I did that... got it down to about 17 minutes an eyelet before I was done, mostly playing with the awl through the layers of cloth)... to save time and wear. Steel boning in the corsets as well (for the gentlewomen... the few of the lower classes who wore an underbodice had corded underbodices, rather than the stiff corsets... worked very well (I'm tempted to make one, my overdress has trouble by halfway through the day with support). *g* The one annoyance (and only because the Peterkas didn't find Sir Thomas's badge until after they had had so many made and used them for a year or three) is that the household badges we wear are really patches with Sir Thomas Kytson's arms on them... and they're pretty big. They do give the general idea however, and we tend to describe his arms with his shield, rather than drawing attention to the badges... unless necessary, as in if we get "in trouble" for something around the village and would rather throw ourselves upon Sir Thomas's mercy than have to deal with the Sheriff :-) (Not that Sir Thomas won't give us what-for if we *do* do something :-) *g* Cindy (the festival's costumer) is pretty picky about what is worn and she and Carolyn (artistic director) can be picky about what is carried... but both will let things get by that Paula and Larry won't (St. George's guildmasters). And yes, there are things we end up faking... but everyone in the guild (especially those there more than a year) does do what they can to bring their characters to life in a proper manner... rather than "just acting" a part. (and, yes, we're also in awe of some of those in various roles in the rest of the cast as well...) Oh... and the St. George Livery (mine at least) will be at Costume Con... both discussion groups on clothing and re-enactment... though I don't know if I'll wear it or not.... probably not for desire of comfort over the weekend, and having gained a bit of winter weight since it was last worn.... -Elisabeth (at MDRF Mistress Mabel Ascomb now) >From: Brenda Bell > > >>...and some, like Md., have associated reenactment groups with historical >>clothing standards. >> >> > >Whoa... this sounds interesting. Unfortunately I only get to Maryland for >Scottish Weekend :( > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 17:15:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38LF9MX001219 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:15:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38K9oKo021499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38K9ndK004927; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:09:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21405.mail.yahoo.com (web21405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h38K9ldK004904 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030408200946.96890.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.96] by web21405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:09:46 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:09:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book *gloat* To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407175944.009fdd90@pop3.norton.antivirus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO His gifting me with the book makes me feel better about the phone call while at Williamsburg to tell me he was thinking of me because of all the glorious costumes walking around. Yep, nifty boss....lets me try to arrange time when Teren is sick so that I can make up the hours, or so that I may go to an event and wear costumes. I can even, on days that I'm not meeting clients, wear the simpler pieces, and am regularly working on costumes while at work. Angharad __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 18:20:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38MK3MX001638 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:20:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38LJdKo000120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38LJZuC028436; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:19:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38LJVuC028383 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD100262N8F29@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:14:46 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renfaire costuming accuracy - MD Ren. Festival In-reply-to: <3E9328D7.1040604@comcast.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030408140707.02c8e430@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/8/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304081340.h38Desd8010561@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:53 PM 4/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >but both will let things get by that Paula and Larry won't (St. George's >guildmasters). As in Larry and Paula Peterka? My what a small world. I used to do small faires and period dance classes with Larry before he married Paula here in Fresno, California. He was a great juggler then, and had us rolling with much laughter. She looked great in her Germans. I thought they did Landsknecht stuff? Sorry, getting maudlin over old faire hands. It will be nice for me to return to faire again, although so many of the people in faire now are really young. {sigh} I hate getting older when faire is for the young. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 18:23:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h38MN1MX001679 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38LMeKo000537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:22:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38LMduC001055; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:22:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38LMYuC000989 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:22:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip109.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.109]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52706A9B1 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:03:59 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:22:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3E92DB25.28439.3FF72E63@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.0.0.25.2.20030408121628.0304f860@mail.attbi.com> References: <3E928761.19159.3EAFF930@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Re: Gabled headdresses? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The change has only been in the past year - Jan 2002 no problem, Jan > 2003 no photos. Apparently (I had this from the textile curator), the > MoL discovered a website or multiple websites (can't remember which) > with very poor quality photographs of some of their collection. > Apparently these websites were negatively affecting the museum image > so the slapped a ban on all photography (unless you get specific > permission and sign a waiver). So, if you want to take photos there, > contact the museum ahead of time and you can probably get permission > to take some photos of a specific area or item. Ouch. Of course, if I ever get back to London I have every intention of writing for an appointment. I about died when I found out that the excitement in the meeting room adjacent to where I was for my appointment was not because of the Roman London sarcophagus that they had just opened but because of some of the Tudor finds in the fishpond they had just started excavating. Of course, I found this out *after* I got home! (I was there specifically studying Tudor headdresses.) And writing actually saved me when I was at the V&A too. I had it in writing that I was allowed to take flash photographs of the textile collection when one of the security guards got a bit officious. I was *very* glad I had the letter with me! You could take photographs, flash or otherwise, in the collections with permission but not during your appointment. Pencils and paper only then. It took special paid photography permits to have pictures then and they preferred that they took them so that they were better quality pictures. But you got to use them for published books or articles if you went that far. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 20:08:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3908ZMX002129 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:08:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38N8EKo013556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38N8CfD014003; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38N87fD013936 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A656E83900EA; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:08:06 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A656BA2020E; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:08:06 -0500 Message-ID: <009301c2fe23$83ca9f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:06:40 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Return to white streaks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well I am returning to this subject because I just received my daughter's school photo and you can clearly see one of her streaks. You can see her photo at www.costumegallery.com/Katie2003.jpg . It is hard to see but her hair is in dozens of ringlets. The two lighter colored ringlets in the front bleach out white blonde in the summer. These streaks are what people think are hair extensions. It is hard to see the streak on other side because it is pulled to the back in ringlets. BTW, her hair is naturally curly and thick. All we do to make the ringlets is wrap her wet hair around a pencil and then slide it out. Her hair stayed in these ringlets for a week without gel or hairspray. It also took me two hours to make all the ringlets. Her hair is about shoulder blade length when not in ringlets. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 20:36:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h390ajMX002227 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:36:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38NanKo016600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:36:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38NamfD000581; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38NahfD000531 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AD0ABCAB0102; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:36:42 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD0A23540236; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:36:42 -0500 Message-ID: <00e101c2fe27$82b254a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030408134036.12678.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> <012d01c2fdd7$d465ea00$960c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:35:15 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually I have people ask me what I do all the time. If I saw historic costume, they think the study of carnival costumes. Then they play 20 questions trying to figure out what I really do. The easiest title for me to use is fashion historian. People seem to understand immediately. The general public does not understand the real definition of costume. But they do understand what fashion is. Realistically, the costuming industry is part of the fashion industry. Just like textiles is part of the fashion industry. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 20:38:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h390chMX002247 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:38:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38NcaKo016771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:38:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38NcZfD001411; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:38:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38NcTfD001364 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h38NcSQc022351 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.208] (tnt-1-272.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.208]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h38NcG0B021871 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:06:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:35 PM -0500 4/7/03, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Monday 07 April 2003 04:39 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > >Probably happened because of Leo's pretty face. > >Never understood that, either. Leo isn't *that* pretty, and his subsequent >films have shown he's not that much of an actor, either. But he had great >chemistry with Winslet, and that made the love scenes much more convincing >than they otherwise would have been. Sticking with costume flicks so that this is still marginally on topic .... I think the movie that best illustrates the deficiencies in Leo's acting is the remake of "Man in the Iron Mask" in which he plays the dual role of the two royal brothers. As the bewildered former mask-wearer who has been shut away from virtually all interaction and is trying to learn how to be human, he worked very well. As the capricious and sophisticated king of France, he stank. (But then, he wasn't the only actor who stank in that film.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 22:00:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3920rMX002646 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:00:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3910vKo024653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3910t7h013885; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3910q7h013818 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m56.in-tch.com [216.166.191.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h390h5903096 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E937108.7F285A47@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 19:02:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Gabled headdresses? (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) References: <3E92D631.705FBFF1@in-tch.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20030408121628.0304f860@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Danielle, that's good to know, because *of course* I'll be going back! --sue, wannabe world traveler Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > > > The change has only been in the past year - Jan 2002 no problem, Jan 2003 > no photos. Apparently (I had this from the textile curator), the MoL > discovered a website or multiple websites (can't remember which) with very > poor quality photographs of some of their collection. Apparently these > websites were negatively affecting the museum image so the slapped a ban on > all photography (unless you get specific permission and sign a > waiver). So, if you want to take photos there, contact the museum ahead of > time and you can probably get permission to take some photos of a specific > area or item. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 22:06:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3926VMX002669 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:06:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3916ZKo025110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:06:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3916X7h016218; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:06:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3916T7h016187 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-002-181.jps.net ([216.119.2.181] helo=pavilion) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19342n-0006CM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:06:29 -0700 Message-ID: <003601c2fe35$df6bc920$b50277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3E92E3D1.8090901@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inflatable dolls, foam duct tape Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:18:02 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda J. Thompson wrote: > I have 2 of those adult dolls.... I purchased them when we needed something to put inside > mermaid costumes when we painted the fabric. > > They are way to small for most applications and the shoulders have no definition to them, > so they most likely would not be suitable to display anything other than perhaps a childs > outfit. Which would be just wrong somehow... > I totally agree, you might raise the suspicions of the authorities who would get a search warrant for your house and computer and only to find your database full of copyright images!!! Best not to attract too much attention!! Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 8 22:07:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3927AMX002680 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:07:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3917JKo025167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3917I7h016556; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3917F7h016503 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m56.in-tch.com [216.166.191.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h390nS905834 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E937288.C249A87D@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 19:08:24 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Return to white streaks References: <009301c2fe23$83ca9f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, my, they really are striking, aren't they? She's got such a great smile! --sue, who has anti-ringlet hair, herself....*sniff* Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Well I am returning to this subject because I just received my daughter's > school photo and you can clearly see one of her streaks. You can see her > photo at > www.costumegallery.com/Katie2003.jpg . It is hard to see but her hair is in > dozens of ringlets. The two lighter colored ringlets in the front bleach > out white blonde in the summer. These streaks are what people think are > hair extensions. It is hard to see the streak on other side because it is > pulled to the back in ringlets. > > BTW, her hair is naturally curly and thick. All we do to make the ringlets > is wrap her wet hair around a pencil and then slide it out. Her hair stayed > in these ringlets for a week without gel or hairspray. It also took me two > hours to make all the ringlets. Her hair is about shoulder blade length > when not in ringlets. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 01:05:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3955BMX003303 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:05:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39453Ko017480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3944xqg008160; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3944uqh008136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h3944hp5013289 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:04:44 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407205656.02cf8a10@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I notice that Henslowe's Diary has been reprinted as of 2002 by R.A. Foakes. You can get a paperback copy on Amazon for $29.00. Not nice and searchable, but definitely available. Want to watch that copyright thing that we don't speak about in polite company any more Got my xerox of the ILL Furnival of Stubbes. Now what do we do? Start Typing? Do we want to do it in ASCII so everyone can read it as they do with Project Gutenberg, or do we want to Adobe it and .pdf? Regina/Wanda > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Kimiko Small > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:58 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and > Silver > > > At 11:50 PM 4/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >I'll have > >to see how to make it deliverable to other people's computers. > > MySQL is a great online database, according to my hubby. > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 01:08:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3958rMX003314 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:08:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39492Ko017712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39491qg009662; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3948vqg009637 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id ACD862D300FE; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:08:56 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACD9161B025E; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:08:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01eb01c2fe4d$6ba7ef60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:06:38 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Cher Concert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So how many of you watched Cher's Farewell Concert tonight on TV? My husband bought tickets to the Philly show last July for our anniversary. The TV concert left out a lot of the in-between shots with the people swinging from the rafters. Cher changed costumes after every one or two songs. So there was a lot of videoclips, dancers, and the rafter swingers in between costume changes. So what was your favorite costume? Did you notice that a lot of the costumes were period inspired? I really liked the Victor/Victoria like red costume. She carried the costume so well... it fit her sassy personality. The TV really didn't do justice to the magnificence of the elephant on stage. What a great set! BTW... update on the stolen wig Cher wig from Richmond... it was worn during the elephant set. Cher has it back and she didn't press charges. I was thrilled to see the concert close-up on TV. We had tickets on the first tier of the coliseum and mainly had to watch the video screens for Cher. I am so spoiled... I worked for three years in the second row of a concert amphitheater. My husband was security to the stars and stayed with them. We got to see about 200 shows from just in front of the stage. We were told then by the staff, that once you go to a concert out of this venue, you will never see them like them as much again. This is so true. The people in the front rows really enjoy their music and we had fun!!! If anyone has the opportunity to every work these types of shows... it is a lifetime experience and the party of a lifetime... okay, I'll confess, I didn't enjoy Yanni and Raffi shows. (there was a price of patience to pay) The only time I have seen concerts out of this venue and had good seats... we had a front row seats for a Paul McCarthney and Wings concert in 1990. Luck of the draw, we bought them the day of the show and paid regular price. Then made a mad dash to DC to see the show. Funny, all our front row tickets for Wings didn't cost as much as we paid for the Cher concert in the first tier. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 01:16:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h395GnMX003334 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:16:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394GxKo018290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394Gwqg012546; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80102.mail.yahoo.com (web80102.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h394Grqg012519 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030409041653.24942.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.202.174.86] by web80102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2003 21:16:53 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:16:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304081340.h38Desd8010561@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renfair costuming accuracy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brenda wrote: >I know the Cali. Faires are much better in this respect than others. I've been told that they've gone considerably downhill since REC bought them out. Anyone familiar with care to comment? Well, I had this long thing written out, and I asked my DH, Stephen, who's the Assistant Guildmaster for St. Michael's Guild (the military) at RPFN, and has worked for the past 10 years at "Northern," both for the Pattersons and for REC. "Jakob" sez: "No, it hasn't gone downhill at all. At this point, it's staying steady; nobody is pushing the envelope, but the quality is still the same, and (in my not so humble opinion) is far better than most of what's out there." Take a look at Renaissance Magazine (we get it delivered to the house); most of those fairs don't have anything to do with Elizabethan England or the Renaissance." My own comments: RPFN hasn't really changed very much, because most of the people that worked for the Pattersons continued to work for REC, so there's continuity with regards to costume requirements. Also, St. Michael's is a "subcontracted" guild; many of the members of St. Michael's are members of the Renaissance Military Society, a local reenactment group. This should also prove an interesting year for Bay Area Renaissance re-enactors, as we have 2 long-running fairs going on this summer: The Heart of the Forest Faire (run by Kevin & Leslie Patterson) opens July 12 and runs through August 10 in Novato; RPFN workshops begin August 9, and RPFN runs from September 6 through October 19. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 01:21:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h395LNMX003343 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394LVKo018741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394LUqg014477; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394LRqg014446 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host-66-81-241-92.rev.o1.com ([66.81.241.92]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19375S-0004s5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 00:21:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407135554.04518ea0@mail.earthlink.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407135554.04518ea0@mail.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:21:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renfaire costuming accuracy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:05 PM -0400 4/7/03, Brenda Bell wrote: >>I know the Cali. Faires are much better in this respect than others. > >I've been told that they've gone considerably downhill since REC >bought them out. Anyone familiar with care to comment? Well, yes and no :) I can at least give you *my* California viewpoint. The faires REC has bought have always had a fairly strong "Faire culture", which tends to rely at least as much on Faire "traditions" as on history. I worked Renaissance Pleasure Faire North for several years including that transition, and I didn't see any changes in _costuming_ that I could attribute to the change in ownership. (In entertainment yes, costume no.) In general, with some exceptions and some allowance for such "traditions," these faires IMHO do a reasonable job of approximating the look of Elizabethan clothing as it was understood about twenty to thirty years ago. The "lowest common denominator" for women is a basic front-laced bodice, multiple gathered skirts, a gathered blouse and a mob cap. For men it's knee-length breeches or puffy short pants with tights, some sort of doublet or jerkin, a full-cut shirt and a hat. I have, however, seen some peculiarities of costume there that I can't see as historical -- for instance, the wearing of a fur "tail" hanging from the back of a bodice or doublet. But since they are Faire tradition -- and most seem to have been well established before the buyout -- they are accepted. (This one I think originated in a misunderstanding of the ornamental fur pelts with jeweled heads and feet seen in some noble portraits.) If you want a list so we can all complain about it , I can think of some others..... but that's kind of off the subject at the moment. Judging by what I've seen myself, I'd actually say the REC faires seem to have found a level that _they_ feel comfortable with and are sticking to that. Some things have improved since the "old days." For instance, nobles don't all have to wear black anymore, and the wider availability of good reproduction armor and chain mail means that when you see actors in armor, it's usually the real thing. OTOH, some things have undoubtedly gone downhill. These Faires are basically their own genre, and you either like them or not. Many of the people who like these faires *are* interested in history to some extent, but the level to which they actually follow through on this varies. [BTW, one of the problems in evaluating costume "standards" is that -- as one of my friends observed -- it's entirely too easy to compare the _best_ of whatever organization you're involved with, with the _average_ of the organization you're _not_ involved with. Inevitably the "other" organization looks worse. In addition, paying customers -- who can, and do, wear whatever they darn please -- are often included in people's mental picture of faire, along with the actors, who do at least have to pass a costume inspection. This biases the picture somewhat.] California also has a lot of smaller, usually independent Renaissance Faires. Some are more history-oriented than others; some are frankly fantasy faires, complete with elves, goths, etc. There's one new one in particular, having its second season this summer at Stafford Lake Park in Marin County, whose avowed aim is specifically to create a higher level of authenticity than the big faires have been doing. (Take a look at http://www.forestfaire.com if you want to see what it's like.) But if I had to try to describe where things are "trending," I'd probably quote a line I heard in a comedy routine: "He leaped onto his horse and galloped off in all directions." -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 01:28:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h395SbMX003360 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:28:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394SkKo019393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394Sjqg017877; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:28:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h394Shqg017865 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.66] (p02.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.66]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h394Te329945 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:29:40 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 22:26:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert From: sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01eb01c2fe4d$6ba7ef60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Didn't see the whole show but I was wondering how they did the Bang Bang costumes--the ones that looked like tatoos all over Cher's and the dancers' bodies. Do you think they were nude spandex leos with black applkiques? And if so, they would have to have been pinned in place while the leos were on mannequins. But I don't see how they could have taken them off the mannequins to sew them in place on the machine. it would seem they would have to be hand sewn while on the forms. In any event, they must have been incredibly labor-intensive. Sylrog on 4/8/03 10:06 PM, Penny Ladnier at penny@costumegallery.com wrote: > So how many of you watched Cher's Farewell Concert tonight on TV? My > husband bought tickets to the Philly show last July for our anniversary. > The TV concert left out a lot of the in-between shots with the people > swinging from the rafters. Cher changed costumes after every one or two > songs. So there was a lot of videoclips, dancers, and the rafter swingers > in between costume changes. > > So what was your favorite costume? Did you notice that a lot of the > costumes were period inspired? I really liked the Victor/Victoria like red > costume. She carried the costume so well... it fit her sassy personality. > The TV really didn't do justice to the magnificence of the elephant on > stage. What a great set! > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 02:04:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3964lMX004342 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 02:04:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39551Ko022655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39550UN004221; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3954wUN004177 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:04:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DarlaKDavis@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.e6.3803fc13 (4320) for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:04:48 -0400 (EDT) From: DarlaKDavis@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:04:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/8/2003 9:41:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: > it would seem they would > have to be hand sewn while on the forms. In any event, they must have been > incredibly labor-intensive. > > Sylrog > It looked to me as if they painted the costumes, as in "Cats". Darla _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 02:07:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3967eMX004961 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 02:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3957mKo022782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3957mUN005298; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3957kUN005284 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:07:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AAA1552300EA; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 00:07:45 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAA219BF00F6; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 00:07:46 -0500 Message-ID: <02cd01c2fe55$96486f80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009301c2fe23$83ca9f40$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3E937288.C249A87D@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Return to white streaks Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:05:05 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue, I have anti-ringlet hair too... board straight. When I used to perm and it took three times for it to take. What a joy to have Katie's hair to play with. I was surprised by the big smile today... someone must have been making her laugh. She is a giggle box and class clown. A common trait of the youngest child in a big family. Maybe I will take a photo when she is on swimteam this summer and let you see how the streaks turn white. BTW, I did take photos of the back of the ringlet hairstyle... just haven't had them developed yet. Actually I have taken lots of hairstyle photos with her... some are step by step. One day I will get them on the web. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 02:08:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3968AMX005084 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 02:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3958MKo022814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3958MUN005474; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3958IUO005443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h395ptut023231 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:51:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h395ptrB023229 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:51:55 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, movies Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:51:55 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200304090151.55280.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3958IUO005443 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 08 April 2003 12:06 pm, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 9:35 PM -0500 4/7/03, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >On Monday 07 April 2003 04:39 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > >Probably happened because of Leo's pretty face. > > > >Never understood that, either. Leo isn't *that* pretty, and his > > subsequent films have shown he's not that much of an actor, either. But > > he had great chemistry with Winslet, and that made the love scenes much > > more convincing than they otherwise would have been. > > Sticking with costume flicks so that this is still marginally on topic .... > > I think the movie that best illustrates the deficiencies in Leo's > acting is the remake of "Man in the Iron Mask" in which he plays the > dual role of the two royal brothers. Managed to miss it. >As the bewildered former > mask-wearer who has been shut away from virtually all interaction and > is trying to learn how to be human, he worked very well. Acting is always easiest when you have to be on screen what you are in real life. :-) > As the > capricious and sophisticated king of France, he stank. (But then, he > wasn't the only actor who stank in that film.) No surprise. I'm trying to remember the last thing I saw him in, which I think was, in fact, another period piece. Hold on.... [break for Google search of Internet Movie Data Base] Nope, I'm wrong. Must have been some other pretty face. Guess I was wrong and haven't seen his post-Titanic stuff after all. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 02:11:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h396BQMX005867 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 02:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395BaKo022992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395BZUN006640; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx08.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395BXUN006590 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.196.130.120] (HELO laptop) by mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 66253568 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 01:11:27 -0400 Message-ID: <00a201c2fe56$517d3d80$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:10:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] anyone near Madison WI? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been working on an evening dress for CostumeCon's Friday social, and just realized that my husband won't be home to help me mark the hem! Anyone nearby that could spare an hour to help? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 02:18:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h396I2MX007432 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 02:18:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395IDKo023335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:18:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395ICUN009155; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395IAUN009142 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AD1176D900FC; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 00:18:09 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD1219D200F6; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 00:18:10 -0500 Message-ID: <02ea01c2fe57$08520cc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:15:26 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bob Mackie is always labor intensive with his costumes. He designed this and the 1999 show. These were beige leotards with the designs on them. I got a really good look at Cher's. There was a lot of perfectly matched nude fabric used on her costumes. I video taped the show, so I can go back and for a look-see. The 1999 Cher Believe tour is on video-tape and DVD. It is just as good as tonight's show. At one point models come out wearing either the originals or Mackie repros of Cher's most famous costumes. A real treat. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 02:40:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h396eiMX012601 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 02:40:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395exKo025291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395ewUN019094; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:40:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h395etUN019081 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19855 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:58:47 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:58:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Costume exhibit, NYC, next year? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A medievalist friend writes, "I missed some of the details, but there will be an exhibition of historic costumes in NYC next year ca. March. It will coincide with the Renaissance Society's annual conference." That's all he remembers, and so that's all I know. If anyone who is more clued in, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd love something more concrete. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 04:50:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h398o0MX006447 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:50:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h397ilcf007809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h397idsf007717; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:44:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h397ibsf007670 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:44:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030409074432.54960.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:44:32 BST Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:44:32 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3E92A7BC.3929.3F2E5E8C@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I guess I'm just against history being separated into "women's > history" and "real history". This is NOT teh case. Whatever and whoever made you think that, it is not true. Women's historical studies is, to not say it elegantly, a sub-history field of study, just like economic history is, but it is by no means not not real history, you have a wrong concept there. I think that women's history isn't a > separate issue. I think that your study shouldn't be shunted off into > a "Women's Studies" thing but be right in there with the other > history. It is NOT shunted off into anything! Putting it with "social history" makes much more sense to me > than having it gender specific. (It's a "separate but equal" thing. > The more we try to separate things, the easier it is to shunt it > aside as not being as important.) Oh for crying out loud, this is not about it being gender specific or shunted or not equal or anything, what do you know about historiography and particularly women's studies? Why the heck would it be about being seperated? This is a focus, a particular interest, and women's studies draws as much from social history and other particular areas of focus as from other sub-historic studies, and vice versa! It is a very wrong concept and dangerous thought to think it is separated, it is merely a particular focus, I could have researched men's studies and fashion, but I didn't choose to, because Early Modern English Women's Studies is bloody fascinating. Okay... that's my last words, I herewith hand back to your regular costume-talk. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 06:37:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39Ab2MX020208 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:37:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h399Ztcf014034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 03:35:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h399Zr1b012835; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 03:35:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h399Zo1b012800 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 03:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.d3.1b2b3ea9 (15865) for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 05:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m02.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.130]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v92.17) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df93e93e9683c6; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 05:35:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 05:35:36 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <08249A12.6C612F94.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] More from England X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those of you interested, The Costume Museum at Bath has started allowing photography. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 07:43:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39BhRMX020427 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:43:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Aftcf017876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Afrq4007767; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Afnq4007635 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81BE3111CCE for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 005F1111CBE for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <020f01c2fe84$98a1bd70$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01eb01c2fe4d$6ba7ef60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:41:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The only time I have seen concerts out of this venue and had good seats... > we had a front row seats for a Paul McCarthney and Wings concert in 1990. whimper...Paul McCartney... front row... Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 08:32:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39CWVMX020557 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39BV5cf019939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 05:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39BV4nu022142; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 05:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39BV1nu022129 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 05:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-184.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.184] helo=pavilion) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 193DnA-0005JI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 04:31:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c2fe8d$1fcd7e80$b80e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030409074432.54960.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:42:37 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole, One would not want to be caught dead in a "Women's Studies" program here in the U.S. It has the connotation of being sort of a "sheltered workshop" degree, something set up because some self absorbed whiny women in the seventies couldn't hack the mainstream offerings so they packed the whingers off, gave them their own program and breathed a big sigh of relieve they finally shut up. That's why people are making the comments they are about "women's history". It's a shame, its much worse than saying you study costume. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:44 AM Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases > --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > I guess I'm just against history being separated into "women's > > history" and "real history". > > This is NOT teh case. Whatever and whoever made you think that, it is not true. > Women's historical studies is, to not say it elegantly, a sub-history field of > study, just like economic history is, but it is by no means not not real > history, you have a wrong concept there. > > I think that women's history isn't a > > separate issue. I think that your study shouldn't be shunted off into > > a "Women's Studies" thing but be right in there with the other > > history. > > It is NOT shunted off into anything! > > Putting it with "social history" makes much more sense to me > > than having it gender specific. (It's a "separate but equal" thing. > > The more we try to separate things, the easier it is to shunt it > > aside as not being as important.) > > Oh for crying out loud, this is not about it being gender specific or shunted > or not equal or anything, what do you know about historiography and > particularly women's studies? Why the heck would it be about being seperated? > This is a focus, a particular interest, and women's studies draws as much from > social history and other particular areas of focus as from other sub-historic > studies, and vice versa! It is a very wrong concept and dangerous thought to > think it is separated, it is merely a particular focus, I could have researched > men's studies and fashion, but I didn't choose to, because Early Modern English > Women's Studies is bloody fascinating. > > Okay... that's my last words, I herewith hand back to your regular > costume-talk. > > Nicole > > > ===== > "Brains, not Bombs" > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 09:38:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39DcYMX020808 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:38:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39CbDcf023776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39CbC0F014948; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Cb90F014931 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A44140538; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:38:25 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Renfaire costuming accuracy Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:38:24 -0500 Message-ID: <000301c2fe94$ea502110$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does Janet Winter (IIRC) know they are using illustrations from her "Elizabethan costuming" to advise the patrons? http://www.forestfaire.com/visitors-costume.html just wondering- it's good advice, but also for sale. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Chris Laning Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 11:21 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renfaire costuming accuracy At 2:05 PM -0400 4/7/03, Brenda Bell wrote: >>I know the Cali. Faires are much better in this respect than others. > >I've been told that they've gone considerably downhill since REC >bought them out. Anyone familiar with care to comment? Well, yes and no :) I can at least give you *my* California viewpoint. The faires REC has bought have always had a fairly strong "Faire culture", which tends to rely at least as much on Faire "traditions" as on history. I worked Renaissance Pleasure Faire North for several years including that transition, and I didn't see any changes in _costuming_ that I could attribute to the change in ownership. (In entertainment yes, costume no.) In general, with some exceptions and some allowance for such "traditions," these faires IMHO do a reasonable job of approximating the look of Elizabethan clothing as it was understood about twenty to thirty years ago. The "lowest common denominator" for women is a basic front-laced bodice, multiple gathered skirts, a gathered blouse and a mob cap. For men it's knee-length breeches or puffy short pants with tights, some sort of doublet or jerkin, a full-cut shirt and a hat. I have, however, seen some peculiarities of costume there that I can't see as historical -- for instance, the wearing of a fur "tail" hanging from the back of a bodice or doublet. But since they are Faire tradition -- and most seem to have been well established before the buyout -- they are accepted. (This one I think originated in a misunderstanding of the ornamental fur pelts with jeweled heads and feet seen in some noble portraits.) If you want a list so we can all complain about it , I can think of some others..... but that's kind of off the subject at the moment. Judging by what I've seen myself, I'd actually say the REC faires seem to have found a level that _they_ feel comfortable with and are sticking to that. Some things have improved since the "old days." For instance, nobles don't all have to wear black anymore, and the wider availability of good reproduction armor and chain mail means that when you see actors in armor, it's usually the real thing. OTOH, some things have undoubtedly gone downhill. These Faires are basically their own genre, and you either like them or not. Many of the people who like these faires *are* interested in history to some extent, but the level to which they actually follow through on this varies. [BTW, one of the problems in evaluating costume "standards" is that -- as one of my friends observed -- it's entirely too easy to compare the _best_ of whatever organization you're involved with, with the _average_ of the organization you're _not_ involved with. Inevitably the "other" organization looks worse. In addition, paying customers -- who can, and do, wear whatever they darn please -- are often included in people's mental picture of faire, along with the actors, who do at least have to pass a costume inspection. This biases the picture somewhat.] California also has a lot of smaller, usually independent Renaissance Faires. Some are more history-oriented than others; some are frankly fantasy faires, complete with elves, goths, etc. There's one new one in particular, having its second season this summer at Stafford Lake Park in Marin County, whose avowed aim is specifically to create a higher level of authenticity than the big faires have been doing. (Take a look at http://www.forestfaire.com if you want to see what it's like.) But if I had to try to describe where things are "trending," I'd probably quote a line I heard in a comedy routine: "He leaped onto his horse and galloped off in all directions." -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 10:42:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39EgRMX021102 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39DfFcf027713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:41:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39DfEDO010064; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39DfBDO009996 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m116.in-tch.com [216.166.191.116]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h39DNN900860 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:23:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E94233C.E6F0348@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:42:20 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More from England References: <08249A12.6C612F94.0BD9917F@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, MAN! When???? They sure didn't when I was there last fall, and I would have done just about anything to take a couple of pictures of the Elizabethan shirts..... Cr@p....why am I always off in my timing? --sue, who will just have to day-trip it on the train from London, the next time she gets to Britain.... Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > > For those of you interested, The Costume Museum at Bath has started allowing photography. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 10:50:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39EonMX021137 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Dmtcf028375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39DmsDO013062; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39DmpDO013044 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:48:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:48:51 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:48:47 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Renfest costuming accuracy-short rant X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sigh, this subject line really hits home. I had been costume mistress for a local faire for several years (with the help of Linda T., Hi :) ). I originally signed on as 1: loved faire, 2: loved historic costuming. I really enjoyed helping those folks that wanted to learn create as period a costume as possible for their character. I learned a lot about theatrical costuming along the way and understand that a certain amount of this can be needed at a faire. I got burned out by all the actors who didn't care about their costumes and the PTB who seemed to think 'Disney' was primary costuming resource. Just a little bit of venting, Catherine PS: Heather; yeah, Man in the Iron Mask had some problems but ooooooh did I love Gabriel Byrne :) :) :). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 11:54:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39FsJMX021329 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:54:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Er4cf004697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Er2dh017584; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Eqwdh017430 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout10.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD2009S7ZZTGY@mtaout10.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:52:40 -0500 From: Allison In-reply-to: <200304091341.h39DfdDP010202@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Re: skirt hemming help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rebecca, I'm nowhere near you, but I will be at CostumeCon, and I will be very happy to help you hem your garment - if you don't mind waiting until the last minute! I'm arriving Wednesday evening so I can have a day or two of sightseeing and museum-hopping. (Plus, I have an ulterior motive - I'll be by myself, and would love to meet some other h-cost list members!) If you like you can contact me privately. Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 11:58:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39Fw0MX021335 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:58:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39EkZcf003958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39EkXdh013652; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39EkQdh013548 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host217-35-35-76.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.35.76] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 193GqG-0003Eg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:46:24 +0100 Message-ID: <004501c2fea6$c2c4d160$4c2323d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:46:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wanda wrote: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > I notice that Henslowe's Diary has been reprinted as of 2002 by R.A. Foakes. > You can get a paperback copy on Amazon for $29.00. Not nice and searchable, > but definitely available. > Um, well, you might want to note that a. although people call it 'Henslowe's Diary' it is not a diary b. Reg Foakes' book is in fact a new edition of his original indispensible edition of a part of the document usually known as 'Henslowe's diary', long out of print and impossible to lay hands on outside specialist libraries and on ILL c. It's not a facsimile of the document; people might like to bear in mind that reading a facsimile of that kind is extremely difficult without very extensive experience of the language and usages of the period. And even if you have all of that it's still very difficult; Henslowe was a great man, wholly untramelled by any desire to make his jottings comprehensible to anyone other than himself. And I sometimes wonder whether even that worried him... > Want to watch that copyright thing that we don't speak about in polite > company any more Um, well, you might want to note in particular c. above. For the vast majority of people it's no Reg, no Henslowe. And his new edition is the best bargain you will ever get. Oh, and he was one of the original Founding Fellows of the Shakespeare Institute back in 1951, and an absolute sweetheart. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 12:04:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39G4IMX021354 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:04:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39F31cf005678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39F306a023969; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39F2u6a023931 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:02:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.20.42] (a42.denver.dial.dimcom.net [206.124.20.42]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h39F3q319857 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:03:52 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:01:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert From: sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They weren't painted. I looked at them close-up and could see what looked like the outlines of the black fabric on top of the nude leotards. on 4/8/03 11:04 PM, DarlaKDavis@aol.com at DarlaKDavis@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/8/2003 9:41:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sylvia@ntw.net > writes: > >> it would seem they would >> have to be hand sewn while on the forms. In any event, they must have been >> incredibly labor-intensive. >> >> Sylrog >> > > It looked to me as if they painted the costumes, as in "Cats". > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 12:58:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39GvxMX021577 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:57:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Ftdcf011638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Ftbmm000310; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80104.mail.yahoo.com (web80104.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h39FtYmm000274 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030409155534.20698.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:55:34 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:55:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304091341.h39DfdDP010202@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] OT: An FYI for Maidenhead's COS X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ron Carnegie recently posted about Maidenhead's COS (Company of Shot); at almost the same time an e-mail was posted to another reenactment list, letting everyone know that Bryan Kramer, late of Maidenhead's COS is now Major Bryan Kramer, USMC, with the 3rd Inf. Div. and is dining in Baghdad this evening (Wednesday, 4/9/03). Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 13:58:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39HwwMX021871 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Gv2cf018685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Gv10E012383; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80109.mail.yahoo.com (web80109.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h39Guv0E012341 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030409165642.31608.qmail@web80109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:56:42 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:56:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304091341.h39DfdDP010202@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renfaire costuming accuracy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Betsy wrote: <> My guess is "probably," as she and Carolyn Schultz (now Savoy) wrote their book when Carolyn was the costume director for RPF, and worked for the Pattersons. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA The world has truly gone crazy. The best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the Americas Cup, the French are accusing the United States of arrogance, and the Germans don't want to go to war. --Chris Rock _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 14:31:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39IVIMX022016 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:31:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39HTWcf022168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:29:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39HTV0E004797; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h39HTR0E004705 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:29:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3cftnj6ZjBOa7/H0Ss/bc2Kc6JM+4YzhFg==">; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:29:16 EDT Received: (from btana@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HVCEM7JY; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:29:16 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:13:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert Message-ID: <20030409.113127.-59835.2.btana@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,6,8-12,17-23 From: btana@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:06:38 -0400 "Penny Ladnier" writes: > > So what was your favorite costume? Did you notice that a lot of the > costumes were period inspired? I really liked the Victor/Victoria like red > costume. She carried the costume so well... it fit her sassy personality. > The TV really didn't do justice to the magnificence of the elephant on > stage. What a great set! > I taped the whole thing, because I just love alot of the costumes that she wears. I liked the start of this concert, and just might be integrating parts of some of those costumes into my barbarian stuff. My head was going in circles with everything that was swarming through. I'll have to watch it again to remember everything I want to do! Astrid Never argue with a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. http://www.geocities.com/astridofthehorde ICQ # 67785514 MSN btana_qul_mupwi Yahoo lady_btana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 15:49:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39JnWMX022386 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39IZNcf029724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:35:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39IZIGS022275; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39IZEGS022190 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Tudorldy@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.36.3dd6c49a (15899) for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m02.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.130]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v92.17) with ESMTP id MAILINID92-3e1b3e9467d412; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:35:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:35:00 -0400 From: Tudorldy@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5AD20810.1B3338BA.00862037@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] One near us X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Bryan Kramer, late of Maidenhead's COS is now Major Bryan Kramer, USMC, with the 3rd Inf. Div. and is dining in Baghdad this evening (Wednesday, 4/9/03).<< May we see him safely home soon. (amen) Meagn TudorLdy@aol.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 15:51:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39JpqMX022397 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39IeFcf000308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:40:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39IeEGS025541; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80105.mail.yahoo.com (web80105.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h39IeBGS025508 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030409184011.74658.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:40:11 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304091801.h39I1FGT028745@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re:Cher concert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia wrote: <> I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are, in spite of the incredible expense. Bob Mackie is one of the "old fashioned" costume designers: It will look wonderful, no matter the cost. Supposedly, Mackie bought up all the real silk souffle when the mill that produced it shut down because it's the only thing that really works for those gowns that look like they're just beads on nothing. I used to work in an office upstairs from Stella's Beads, who did all the beaded embroidery for the Mackie shop; it was fun to occasionally pop in and see what the ladies (about 6 little old ladies, all busy plying their needles around a big embroidery frame) were working on for Mr. Mackie. Oddly, in a very tangental way, Bob Mackie helped to get me started in costuming. When I was little (elementary school), one of my best friends' grandmother worked for Bob Mackie, and she used to bring scraps home from the shop for us to make doll clothes. We had some of the best dressed Barbies around, and I got spoiled using fine fabrics and making interesting historical costumes for Barbie, including an 18th century gown out of real silk brocade. It's been downhill ever since. ;-) Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA The world has truly gone crazy. The best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the Americas Cup, the French are accusing the United States of arrogance, and the Germans don't want to go to war. --Chris Rock _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 16:04:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39K4bMX022454 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:04:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39J2dcf002998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:02:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39J2cGA012088; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39J2YGA012036 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:02:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h39J2XQc011203 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.171] (as3-4-185.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.171]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39J230D010212 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030409074432.54960.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030409074432.54960.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:52:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:44 AM +0100 4/9/03, N Kipar wrote: > --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > >> I guess I'm just against history being separated into "women's >> history" and "real history". > >This is NOT teh case. Whatever and whoever made you think that, it >is not true. >Women's historical studies is, to not say it elegantly, a sub-history field of >study, just like economic history is, but it is by no means not not real >history, you have a wrong concept there. > >I think that women's history isn't a >> separate issue. I think that your study shouldn't be shunted off into >> a "Women's Studies" thing but be right in there with the other >> history. > >It is NOT shunted off into anything! If I may be permitted to attempt to translate between posters ... In my experience (which is largely with American academia, and covers the period from my undergraduate years in the late 70s through the present), there have been times and institutions where the existence of a Women's Studies program was used as an excuse to keep History Departments fairly exclusively focused on "traditional" male-oriented history. My experience is that this has been becoming generally less true in the last couple decades, but there are still plenty of individual hold-outs who are rather old-fashioned on the topic. On the other hand, what Kat doesn't seem to be crediting (although I suspect she is aware of it) is that the current broadening of the understanding of "history" to include more social history and gender-related issues (for both genders) was to a significant extent made _possible_ by the creation of Women's Studies programs, which -- after nurturing a new generation of scholars back in the 70s and 80s -- re-infiltrated "regular" history programs and helped broaden the scope of the field in general. Kat's perception is one that I think would have been reasonably accurate back in the 70-80s, but is no longer true generally true today. But it's important to understand that, back in those days, it wasn't a matter of "shunting off" these topics from History departments to Women's Studies departments, but rather of creating programs in which topics that were being largely ignored by History departments could be studied and developed as a field. I certainly agree that it would be wrong to set up "women's history" in opposition to "real history", but if you are dealing with an entrenched academic culture in which "real history" is a code-word for "men's history" (which certainly used to be the case) then it may be a temporary necessity. I'm actually delighted that Nichole has the reaction that she does to this concept, because it means that the process has been successful in the institutions she's familiar with! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 18:40:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39MeIMX023369 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:40:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39LfDcf022326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Lf6ni010188; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Lf1ni010046 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.67.e0aa67b (15887) for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d16.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.132]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v92.17) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f3e94935fc3; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:40:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:40:47 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] More from England MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <457CBE27.2425DDBC.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was told two weeks ago. Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 19:38:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39NcJMX023738 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:38:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Mdhcf029383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Mdftw023469; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:39:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Mdbtw023360 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home (12-211-36-163.client.attbi.com [12.211.36.163]) by mtaout09.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HD300CZBLJ8TQ@mtaout09.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 18:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:45:54 -0700 From: Sidne Kneeland To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <005101c2fee9$c8639640$6401a8c0@attbi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: stage prop help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I have been asked to make a prop for a Home and Garden fair. The prop is an 'oil slick.' The kind that comes out of the cars. We are laying an oil filling funnel by a drain grate. I have to come up with some kind of oil slick. Any ideas? Thanks, Sidne Kneeland _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 19:56:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39NucMX023818 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Mw6cf001665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Mw4HW006292; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h39Mw1HW006213 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWjbdHzAN18tHrtrThYfahJ1/GSLPnaT90Q==">; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:56:56 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HVCZD6DA; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:56:56 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:58:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: stage prop help Message-ID: <20030409.065822.-172267.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about a "puddle" of shiny black plastic fabric. Use the transparent paint made for faux stained glass and make some swirls on the plastic. Just a thought. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 19:57:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h39NvWMX023822 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:57:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39Mwtcf001762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39MwsHW006790; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f130.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.130]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39MwpHW006706 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:58:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:58:46 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:58:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: stage prop help Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:58:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2003 22:58:46.0539 (UTC) FILETIME=[9382D5B0:01C2FEEB] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO : Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:45:54 -0700 > >Greetings, > >I have been asked to make a prop for a Home and Garden fair. The prop is >an 'oil slick.' The kind that comes out of the cars. We are laying an oil >filling funnel by a drain grate. I have to come up with some kind of oil >slick. Any ideas? > Not historical by any means, but a "puddle" of shiney latex(dry of course). It would look very oil like, but lift up and roll away when you're done. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 20:28:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A0SgMX023942 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39NU9cf005021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39NU6HW026917; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h39NS3HW025443 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003040923275700100oiinhe>; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:27:57 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030409162337.00a6f1b0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 16:25:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: stage prop help In-Reply-To: <005101c2fee9$c8639640$6401a8c0@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sidne, I have no advice for you, but as chief of the industrial stormwater program in California, I have to tell you that I write the requirements that lead to people like you being asked to do things like this. Good luck with it, and remember only rain down the drain... Maryann At 03:45 PM 4/9/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings, > >I have been asked to make a prop for a Home and Garden fair. The prop is >an 'oil slick.' The kind that comes out of the cars. We are laying an >oil filling funnel by a drain grate. I have to come up with some kind of >oil slick. Any ideas? > >Thanks, > >Sidne Kneeland >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 21:26:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A1QjMX024129 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A0S9cf012112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A0S8v0001702; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A0S4v0001646 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtk9f.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.209.47] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 193Pv9-0000Cu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c2fef9$a9856a40$2fd1aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030409074432.54960.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:39:33 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > I'm actually delighted that Nichole has the reaction that she does to > this concept, because it means that the process has been successful > in the institutions she's familiar with! > Wish that would trickle down to the general population too! Thinking I might have overstated my response, I asked a woman I have known for 6 working days what she would think if someone told her they were in a "women's studies" program. She looked at me cautiously and asked with some intrepidation, if that was my major, and I gathered that if so, she would be worried about sharing an office with me. I said no, I was just curious as the topic came up on this list. Her impression was very negative in the sterotypical way. I asked the same question of a recent law grad in the office and her response was also cautious, in trying not to potentially offend me. She thought such programs were separatist. It is very sad that "women's studies" is actually a joke now among the general population. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 22:24:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A2ODMX024420 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A1PNcf016958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A1PMhe000177; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:25:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A1PJhe000148 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip39.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.39]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4D16A474 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:25:17 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 18:24:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Message-ID: <3E94656A.21880.45FB4B00@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000a01c2fef9$a9856a40$2fd1aec7@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I'm actually delighted that Nichole has the reaction that she does > > to this concept, because it means that the process has been > > successful in the institutions she's familiar with! > > > > Wish that would trickle down to the general population too! Thinking > I might have overstated my response, I asked a woman I have known for > 6 working days what she would think if someone told her they were in a > "women's studies" program. She looked at me cautiously and asked with > some intrepidation, if that was my major, and I gathered that if so, > she would be worried about sharing an office with me. I said no, I > was just curious as the topic came up on this list. Her impression > was very negative in the sterotypical way. I asked the same question > of a recent law grad in the office and her response was also cautious, > in trying not to potentially offend me. She thought such programs > were separatist. It is very sad that "women's studies" is actually a > joke now among the general population. It was actually better a few years back. Things have been more negative in the past 5-10 years. I'm glad it's not that bad in England! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 22:34:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A2Y9MX024467 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:34:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A1YQcf017503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A1YQhe004268; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:34:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A1YMhe004252 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:34:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AA1D54D000DA; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:34:21 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA1DF090120; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:34:21 -0500 Message-ID: <00c601c2ff01$1d806880$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01eb01c2fe4d$6ba7ef60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <020f01c2fe84$98a1bd70$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:32:56 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dianne, It was wonderful!!!!! I never ever thought I would get to see a Beatle in real life. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 23:12:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A3ClMX024634 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:12:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A2E9cf020353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A2E8St020904; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A2E5St020863 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC807112408 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8721F1124EF for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <05b001c2ff05$f2eec990$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01eb01c2fe4d$6ba7ef60$0400a8c0@comcast.net><020f01c2fe84$98a1bd70$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <00c601c2ff01$1d806880$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:07:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO He is extremely wonderful still, isn't he? I've seen him twice, but never from front row! OB costume content--I love the hippie clothing of the 60's. I ahve several pattern from approximately that time period. I may dress as a hippie all summer! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert > Dianne, > > It was wonderful!!!!! I never ever thought I would get to see a Beatle in > real life. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 9 23:49:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A3nHMX024751 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A2oecf022712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A2odSt005249; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:50:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A2oaSu005225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h3A3YWut025476 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:34:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h3A3YW4r025474 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:34:32 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: costume in academia, Re: [h-cost] costume data bases Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:34:31 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030409074432.54960.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030409074432.54960.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200304092334.31977.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3A2oaSu005225 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 09 April 2003 03:44 am, N Kipar wrote: > --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > I guess I'm just against history being separated into "women's > > history" and "real history". > > This is NOT teh case. Whatever and whoever made you think that, it is not > true. Women's historical studies is, to not say it elegantly, a sub-history > field of study, just like economic history is, but it is by no means not > not real history, you have a wrong concept there. I suspect Kat agrees with you, Nicole. As do I. But in the US, there is a very real perception that grouping particular issues, or particular subtopics in economics, history, social studies, etc., under the rubric "women's studies" accomplishes nothing other than to advance a feminist agenda. And there are people who resent that. Just as there are people who resent applying the same principle to grouping certain subtopics in economics, history, etc. under the rubric "black history" which is also done in some universities. > > I think that women's history isn't a > > separate issue. I think that your study shouldn't be shunted off into > > a "Women's Studies" thing but be right in there with the other > > history. > > It is NOT shunted off into anything! But, you'll notice, no one has ever suggested isolating subtopics of economics, history, social studies that primarily involve men and male interests as "men's studies." :-) Thus the irony that the study of costume is occasionally grouped with "women's studies" despite the fact that, before the Industrial Revolution, display of wealth and position through costume was a very important activity for men. > > Putting it with "social history" makes much more sense to me > > than having it gender specific. (It's a "separate but equal" thing. > > The more we try to separate things, the easier it is to shunt it > > aside as not being as important.) > > Oh for crying out loud, this is not about it being gender specific or > shunted or not equal or anything, what do you know about historiography and > particularly women's studies? Why the heck would it be about being > seperated? This is a focus, a particular interest, and women's studies > draws as much from social history and other particular areas of focus as > from other sub-historic studies, and vice versa! It is a very wrong concept > and dangerous thought to think it is separated, it is merely a particular > focus, I could have researched men's studies and fashion, but I didn't > choose to, because Early Modern English Women's Studies is bloody > fascinating. As is Early Modern English studies in general. > Okay... that's my last words, I herewith hand back to your regular > costume-talk. Whew. Thank heaven. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 00:44:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A4i5MX024954 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:44:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A3iHcf026591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A3iCR8027156; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A3i8R8027126 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2132.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.132]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h3A3iCNX028072 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:44:12 -0400 Message-ID: <3E94E7F6.3032EF04@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:41:43 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: An FYI for Maidenhead's COS References: <20030409155534.20698.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Glad to know that one of our own is well. The tanks that are providing cover for him are from my old unit ( 3-63 Armor, 3rd Bde., 3rd ID, part of Task Force 1-64). Poor Marines, being assigned to a U.S. Army unit, they must be so embarrassed ;) God Save the Queen! Mike T., an old retired treadhead Jacobson Dawn wrote: > Ron Carnegie recently posted about Maidenhead's COS > (Company of Shot); at almost the same time an e-mail > was posted to another reenactment list, letting > everyone know that Bryan Kramer, late of Maidenhead's > COS is now Major Bryan Kramer, USMC, with the 3rd Inf. > Div. and is dining in Baghdad this evening (Wednesday, > 4/9/03). > > Dawn > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. > --Dalai Lama > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 01:29:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A5TQMX025056 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:29:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4TXcf029964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4TWFR017429; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4TSFR017327 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001 ([192.168.129.200]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030410042923.ORSE19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] OT: An FYI for Maidenhead's COS Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 0:29:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [192.168.129.200] at Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:29:23 -0500 Message-Id: <20030410042923.ORSE19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: leigh tartaglio > Date: 2003/04/09 Wed PM 11:41:43 EDT > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: An FYI for Maidenhead's COS > > Hi. Glad to know that one of our own is well. The tanks that are > providing cover for him are from my old unit ( 3-63 Armor, 3rd Bde., 3rd > ID, part of Task Force 1-64). Poor Marines, being assigned to a U.S. > Army unit, they must be so embarrassed ;) God Save the Queen! Mike T., > an old retired treadhead He isn't actually. There are a few mistakes in the previous post and that one I suspect was from me! Bryan's wife had told me that he had been attached to the 3rd, and I recently told Danny Mcgee, which is where I suspect that Dawn got it. He is actually with the 15th Marines Expeditionary Force (Special Operations Capable. He told me this himself through email (imagine being online in a combat zone!). He wasn't ever really a member of Maidenheads either, though we would have welcomed him warmly, he was a member of Tim Finkas' Mariners. Not in a very week attempt at making this topical, Tim, who is Bryan's brother and law, and Tim's mother both are very capable costumers on their own right and Tim has recently gone into business casting brass fittings see http://finkas.home.netcom.com/HSB/HSBMAIN.html Cheers, Ron > > Jacobson Dawn wrote: > > > Ron Carnegie recently posted about Maidenhead's COS > > (Company of Shot); at almost the same time an e-mail > > was posted to another reenactment list, letting > > everyone know that Bryan Kramer, late of Maidenhead's > > COS is now Major Bryan Kramer, USMC, with the 3rd Inf. > > Div. and is dining in Baghdad this evening (Wednesday, > > 4/9/03). > > > > Dawn > > > > ===== > > Dawn Jacobson > > Vallejo, CA, USA > > > > Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly. > > --Dalai Lama > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 01:45:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A5j2MX025093 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4j4cf001108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4j3FR023011; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4iwFR022938 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001 ([192.168.129.200]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030410044453.OTHK19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:44:53 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 0:44:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [192.168.129.200] at Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:44:53 -0500 Message-Id: <20030410044453.OTHK19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: "Stevie Gamble" > Date: 2003/04/09 Wed AM 10:46:09 EDT > To: "Historical Costume" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > > c. It's not a facsimile of the document; people might like to bear in > mind that reading a facsimile of that kind is extremely difficult > without very extensive experience of the language and usages of the > period. And even if you have all of that it's still very difficult; > Henslowe was a great man, wholly untramelled by any desire to make his > jottings comprehensible to anyone other than himself. And I sometimes > wonder whether even that worried him... > My understanding is that a much the "diary" isn't even the work of Henslowe, b ut rather his son in law Edward Alleyn. Edward was actually managing the Rose by the 1590s. It is also because of him that they survive as he donated them to the College of God's Gift which he apparently founded. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 02:47:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A6lcMX003571 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:47:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4STcf029853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:28:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4SQFR016954; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A4SNFR016914 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.attbi.com (c-24-245-41-166.mn.client2.attbi.com[24.245.41.166]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003041004281800100ohduse>; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:28:18 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030409233026.02baf790@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: dannw@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:32:14 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] More from England In-Reply-To: <08249A12.6C612F94.0BD9917F@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Regular anytime photography? When I was there in January it was still by appointment only and had to be done outside of regular museum hours (it was really cool wandering around in the museum by myself). I know this was the same last year as well (except I wasn't allowed to wander freely). Has this changed? Cheers, Danielle At 05:35 AM 4/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: >For those of you interested, The Costume Museum at Bath has started >allowing photography. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 03:14:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A7EOMX009469 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:14:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A6Fncf007101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A6Fl23000107; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3A6Fi23029988 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:15:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-122-74-237.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.122.74.237 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2003 06:15:44 -0000 Message-ID: <015901c2ff28$29686f40$ed4a7a43@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:12:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are several databases for legal decisions, etc., that one can subscribe to. We use Westlaw and Lexis/Nexis and they run approximately $800 per month, but they have absolutely no graphics. We used to use the CD format, but the law changes so rapidly it wasn't worth it. We split the subscription costs with each attorney, and everyone has their own logon id. I think for graphics CD's are the way to go. Costume content: My husband's green tie matched his shirt nicely today ::g:: angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If to do were as easy as to know what were good to do, chapels had been churches, and poor men's cottages princes' palaces." The Merchant of Venice, I, ii - William Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Kiel" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases > Isn't there a database system for legal decisions? I seem to remember > clients being billed for the time spent searching for applicable cases. > Perhaps all the costume info could be entered by whomever has it, and then > when someone searches for something they pay per hit? So if I wanted to see > every woman's Italian garment, in any medium or text, between 1250 and 1495, > and I got 3,000 hits, I could decide if I wanted to pay for all of them, or > limit the search further and pay for the ones I actually look at, and pay a > central company that pays out to the various museums, scholars etc. whose > work/info I use. Would this solve the copyright problem? > > And for a name, we could call it "Clothing as a reflection or indicator of > physical and temporal location, economic status, religious belief, and > personal choice" or CRIPTLERP for short. Just a thought. > > > Nancy Kiel > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > Never tease a weasel! > This is very good advice. > For the weasel will not like it > And teasing isn't nice. > > > > > > >From: Brenda Bell > >Reply-To: Historical Costume > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:35:37 > >-0400 > > > >"Lisa Sinervo" wrote: > > > >>You know, I bet there would be some money in publishing > >>costume data bases, not just books. It would be great to buy a CD by > >>fashion period, with the correct fabric samples, buttons, portraits > >>etc....... wouldn't that be grand! > > > >Now, *physical* samples would be difficult... > > > >However, the rest of it? I work for a living creating records for an online > >database. I may not have the extensive costuming background most of you > >have, but a database, I can understand. Well, maybe not to do a lot of > >extensive programming in a DBMS, but I can understand structure, and I can > >do abstracting, indexing, and bibliographic citation. Additionally, my > >ultimate employer (the owner of the big database company for which I work > >in a small, endangered division) is always interested in acquiring and/or > >developing new databases, so if it's something sufficiently useful, perhaps > >I can pitch it up the chain of command. (Or if we end up being shafted and > >our file migrated elsewhere, it might be something I could/should start in > >on to "make ends meet"...) > > > >The biggest question I'd have would be, how many people would be willing to > >pay how much for this sort of thing? Subscriptions to engineering databases > >run into the thousands of dollars per year; I wouldn't expect a clothing > >and costuming database to run much cheaper than that, if done as a > >profit-making venture. > > > >If this type of expense sounds reasonable to that proportion of you who > >would be interested in this sort of product, where would I (1) begin market > >research, (2) find source materials, and (3) get permissions to include > >those source materials in such a database? > > > > > >--Still an egg, but with ideas of what a hen might be able to do... > > > >Brenda > >webwarren@earthlink.net > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 03:55:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A7tjMX018748 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:55:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A6uccf009610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A6ubUk015431; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A6uYUk015422 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A5A2A8B700DA; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:56:34 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A5A317740124; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:56:35 -0500 Message-ID: <016b01c2ff2e$1a205420$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <015901c2ff28$29686f40$ed4a7a43@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume data bases Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:54:58 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We used Lexis/Nexis in college for looking up marketing profiles and annual reports for businesses. What a wonderful database. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 04:00:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A80DMX019655 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A71dcf010040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:01:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A71cUk017696; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A71aUk017656 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:01:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A6CFAAF800DA; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:01:35 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6D017880124; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:01:36 -0500 Message-ID: <018701c2ff2e$cd8f6320$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01eb01c2fe4d$6ba7ef60$0400a8c0@comcast.net><020f01c2fe84$98a1bd70$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><00c601c2ff01$1d806880$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <05b001c2ff05$f2eec990$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:59:59 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Dainne, All you need to do is go to Old Navy and Target to get the hippee merchandise. They have plenty and it is cheap. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 04:24:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3A8OWMX024631 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A7Pocf011745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:25:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A7PnUk028346; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3A7PjUk028280 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AC78156500A6; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:25:44 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC7911990120; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:25:45 -0500 Message-ID: <01d501c2ff32$29e33900$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030409184011.74658.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Cher concert Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:24:02 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Dawn!!!!!! To see Bob Mackie embroidery and beads in person... I would die to see it. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 07:28:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3ABSIMX008894 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AATIcf022695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AAT9Kq003465; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:29:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AAT6Kq003436 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host217-35-5-82.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.5.82] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 193ZIn-0003kV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:29:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c2ff4b$fb2485a0$520523d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030410044453.OTHK19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold andSilver Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:28:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ron wrote: > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold and Silver > > > > > c. It's not a facsimile of the document; people might like to bear in > > mind that reading a facsimile of that kind is extremely difficult > > without very extensive experience of the language and usages of the > > period. And even if you have all of that it's still very difficult; > > Henslowe was a great man, wholly untramelled by any desire to make his > > jottings comprehensible to anyone other than himself. And I sometimes > > wonder whether even that worried him... > > > My understanding is that a much the "diary" isn't even the work of Henslowe, b ut rather his son in law Edward Alleyn. Edward was actually managing the Rose by the 1590s. It is also because of him that they survive as he donated them to the College of God's Gift which he apparently founded. I'm not aware of any evidence that Alleyn wrote any of the document usually referred to as Henslowe's Diary; there are entries made by Henslowe's brother, John, relating to Ashdown Forest, but the remainder appears to be by Philip. Apart, of course, from those entries made by the 19th century forger, J P Collier. Nor am I aware of any evidence that Alleyn was managing the Rose in the 1590's. I should be most interested to know the basis of this suggestion. However, there are large numbers of other documents in the Dulwich College Library and some of those do have entries made by Edward Alleyn. This may perhaps have led to some confusion. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 07:34:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3ABY4MX008907 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:34:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AAWvcf022834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AAWuKq004449; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AAWrKq004411 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91947111EBE for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E033111E1F for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <072b01c2ff4c$75cc8410$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01eb01c2fe4d$6ba7ef60$0400a8c0@comcast.net><020f01c2fe84$98a1bd70$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><00c601c2ff01$1d806880$0400a8c0@comcast.net><05b001c2ff05$f2eec990$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <018701c2ff2e$cd8f6320$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:32:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO heh--I'll have to check out Old Navy again. I know about the stuff at Target, as I work there! There is an Old Navy literally around the corner from me that just opened last fall. But hte one time I went in there, it was crowded, they haven't bothered to do anything to some very old and crappy flooring, and there was really obnoxious music playing *way* too loudly. Not fun. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert > Hey Dainne, > > All you need to do is go to Old Navy and Target to get the hippee > merchandise. They have plenty and it is cheap. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 09:45:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3ADjYMX009408 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:45:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AChpcf029855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:43:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AChoe7019594; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:43:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AChle7019570 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27996 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:01:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:01:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cher Concert In-Reply-To: <072b01c2ff4c$75cc8410$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > There is an Old Navy literally around the corner from me that just > opened last fall. But hte one time I went in there, it was crowded, > they haven't bothered to do anything to some very old and crappy > flooring, and there was really obnoxious music playing *way* too > loudly. Not fun. Not to mention they carry very small quantities of the larger women's sizes, which sell out *fast*. You'd think that would send a message that they should stock more of the larger sizes, but no, they favor the smaller sizes because that's the clientele they want to appear to attract. Anyone sense a disconnect here? (This is a complaint I've shared with quite a few Old Navy employees who, like me, have trouble finding anything to fit them in the store ... not because the store doesn't carry the sizes at all, but because the few items disappear so quickly. I shop there for my husband and sons, and an occasional t-shirt for me.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 14:11:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AIBTMX010627 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:11:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AHCLcf024792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AHCFp5026855; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail1.mackie.com [12.144.237.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AHCBp5026787 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:12:11 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:44:33 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Shopping in Atlanta Thread-Index: AcL/gHXyXt7mF5QlQvGqyV6ORRYljg== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3AHCBp5026787 Subject: [h-cost] Shopping in Atlanta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going to be in Atlanta next week and will have some time to kill. Are there any absolute "must see"'s for fabric and costuming shops for someone interest in medieval and renaissance Italian clothes? Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 14:51:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AIpbMX010805 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AHlbcf028398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AHlZPQ022710; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AHlOPQ022527 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030410174718.LXNF15325.out006.verizon.net@localhost> for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:47:18 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold andSilver Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:47:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:47:18 -0500 Message-Id: <20030410174718.LXNF15325.out006.verizon.net@localhost> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: "Stevie Gamble" > Date: 2003/04/10 Thu AM 06:28:51 EDT > To: "Historical Costume" > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold > andSilver > > > > > My understanding is that a much the "diary" isn't even the work > of Henslowe, b ut rather his son in law Edward Alleyn. Edward was > actually managing the Rose by the 1590s. It is also because of him > that they survive as he donated them to the College of God's Gift > which he apparently founded. > > I'm not aware of any evidence that Alleyn wrote any of the document > usually referred to as Henslowe's Diary; there are entries made by > Henslowe's brother, John, relating to Ashdown Forest, but the > remainder appears to be by Philip. Apart, of course, from those > entries made by the 19th century forger, J P Collier. Nor am I aware > of any evidence that Alleyn was managing the Rose in the 1590's. I > should be most interested to know the basis of this suggestion. > However, there are large numbers of other documents in the Dulwich > College Library and some of those do have entries made by Edward > Alleyn. This may perhaps have led to some confusion. > > best wishes > Stevie This is exactly why I prefaced this as "my understanding" rather than fact. By coincidence I had been reading a surprisingly detailed little book on Shakepeare and period theatre last week, and it mentioned this.( I am doing some research into the busness of theatres in the period). It also has a photo of one of the pages of the Henslowe Papers. It is however at best a secondary source (obviously). Now while I mention that it is detailed, it is not written in a very scholarly manner so I am not sure where some of its information comes from. When I get home I will try to remember to post the name and author of this little book and see if I can find any references quoted (though it doesn't seem to do a lot of that). Maybe you are familiar with the book and have some idea of its general accuracy. Book does have a lot of photos, sometimes of original items sometimes of recreated scenes and in the latter the costumes are often a little weak. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 15:00:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AJ0sMX010861 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:00:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AI1Zcf029960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:01:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AI1YWp002611; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:01:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf47bis.bellsouth.net (mail211.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AI0jWp001910 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlphaB ([66.156.2.100]) by imf47bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.25 201-253-122-122-125-20020815) with ESMTP id <20030410180247.CVVF14284.imf47bis.bellsouth.net@AlphaB> for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:02:47 -0400 From: "Ann Neff" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Shopping in Atlanta Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:59:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c2ff8b$023240a0$5f67fea9@AlphaB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3AI0jWp001910 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This might be a possibility. Phoenix Textiles, aka Fabric.com, is located outside Atlanta in Marietta. They do not have a retail store, only selling over the Internet. However, they are very nice people, and when they were still very new, allowed me to wander through their warehouse -- touching and feeling the fabrics! The address is in their FAQs. It would be worth writing and asking them for permission to visit. They have made an effort to include more and more natural fibers since they first opened, instead of being dominated by quilting fabrics. I live in Lawrenceville outside Atlanta, with the usual Hancocks/JoAnn's choices. There may be some good fabric stores in downtown Atlanta, but I don't get in town during business hours often. Ann Neff -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Colleen McDonald Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:45 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Shopping in Atlanta I'm going to be in Atlanta next week and will have some time to kill. Are there any absolute "must see"'s for fabric and costuming shops for someone interest in medieval and renaissance Italian clothes? Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 15:14:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AJEIMX010946 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:14:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AIF9cf001343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AIF7Wp012038; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80110.mail.yahoo.com (web80110.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3AIEsWp011865 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030410181453.98964.qmail@web80110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:14:53 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:14:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304101800.h3AI0qWq002055@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: L.A. "vintage" clothing stores X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For the person (Sylvia?) that asked for information regarding used clothing stores in the L.A. area: The oldest, and probably still the best is Aardvark's Odd Ark, 7579 Melrose, West Hollywood. Huge store, and they used to have good prices (I haven't shopped there in 10 years, so I don't know current prices). Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 15:20:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AJKEMX011008 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:20:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AIKqcf001905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AIKpWp015963; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:20:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80104.mail.yahoo.com (web80104.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3AIKmWp015931 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030410182048.11011.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:20:48 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:20:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304101800.h3AI0qWq002055@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Cher concert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There is an Old Navy literally around the corner from me that just > opened last fall. But hte one time I went in there, it was crowded, > they haven't bothered to do anything to some very old and crappy > flooring, and there was really obnoxious music playing *way* too > loudly. Not fun. Not to mention they carry very small quantities of the larger women's sizes, which sell out *fast*. You'd think that would send a message that they should stock more of the larger sizes, but no, they favor the smaller sizes because that's the clientele they want to appear to attract. Anyone sense a disconnect here? (This is a complaint I've shared with quite a few Old Navy employees who, like me, have trouble finding anything to fit them in the store ... not because the store doesn't carry the sizes at all, but because the few items disappear so quickly. I shop there for my husband and sons, and an occasional t-shirt for me.) Oddly, the selection for "real-sized" people is much better at the Old Navy Outlets (there's one in San Francisco and one in the Citadel Outlets near L.A.). The prices are also much better. Yes, I'm a satisfied customer (almost all my school/work clothes come from Old Navy). Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA The world has truly gone crazy. The best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the Americas Cup, the French are accusing the United States of arrogance, and the Germans don't want to go to war. --Chris Rock _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 15:33:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AJXUMX011095 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:33:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AIYgcf003258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AIYfWp025261; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40911.mail.yahoo.com (web40911.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3AIYcWp025164 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030410183432.79940.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40911.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:34:32 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:34:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304101801.h3AI0qWr002055@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher Concert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: Not to mention they carry very small quantities of the larger women's sizes, which sell out *fast*. You'd think that would send a message that they should stock more of the larger sizes, but no, they favor the smaller sizes because that's the clientele they want to appear to attract. Anyone sense a disconnect here? (This is a complaint I've shared with quite a few Old Navy employees who, like me, have trouble finding anything to fit them in the store ... not because the store doesn't carry the sizes at all, but because the few items disappear so quickly. I shop there for my husband and sons, and an occasional t-shirt for me.) ______________________ Wow, you are inside of my head! I have this complaint EVERYwhere I shop -- "what's so hard about ordering double the number of size 12-18?" It's basic -- supply and demand. There are a lot of average, size 14 kind of women out there, grumpy because their size is the first to sell out, while the size 2s and 6s sit there in piles, mouldering. It doesn't have to be a statement about politics, body image, or anything else so complicated and provocative -- simply stock what will, apparently, sell the most! On a side note -- I actually CAN find my size at Old Navy (at least the one near me). What kills me though is that Old Navy cuts their women's pants as though every woman has a flat backside, no waist, and an untilted pelvis (i.e. no S-curve in their back). Come to think of it, they feel like men's pants with a curve for accomodating feminine thighs thrown in as an afterthought. I routinely buy otherwise attractive pants in a larger size and put two hefty darts in the back so they don't fall off of my hips. I don't think I'm abnormally shaped -- it's just the peculiar choice of the Old Navy designers, I guess. Donna Karan, btw, cuts womens pants very nicely, I've found. -Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 16:00:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AK0oMX011398 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:00:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AJ22cf006660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AJ1jBu021165; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AJ1fBu021091 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.127] (pm4-127.eos.net [205.133.149.127]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28749 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:01:34 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:57:13 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304081340.h38Desd8010561@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: titanic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 4/8/03 9:40 AM, Paul wrote: > Having been amateur Titanic historian for some 20 odd years now I looked > forward to seeing the movie when it came out and have seen it several times > since. > > I've seen nearly all the Titanic movies including A Night to Remember and I > was aware that David Warner (the valet) had appeared on a previous Titanic > movie called SOS Titanic. > > While watching diCaprio drown was almost worth repeat viewings it was the > attention to detail that Cameron put into the film that really impressed me. > Not merely content with redressing the Queen Mary or dragging some old > sailor suits out of the wardrobe the detail was found in just about > everything. > > As far as accuracy goes with the exception of the fictitious family and > their 3rd class interloper pretty much everything else was spot on. Things > like the men standing on the capsized lifeboat for 4 hours was filmed but > never made it to the final cut. > > It's not a great historical documentary but then it was never intended to be > one either. But that's my point exactly. It would have been a much better movie if it had been about the Titanic sinking, which was very well done and very sad. But as far as the story goes -- well, I had no patience for stupid Rose, the spoiled brat. Like she would have been happier with all the poor immigrants heading to work 12-hour days in American factories! And the stupid fiance chasing Leonardo all over the ship! And Rose having the diamond the whole time! At the end of the movie, when she didn't give it to the nice captain who brought her all the way out to sea, I wanted to push her over the side of the ship after it. I'm all for inter-class romance and doomed love, but those two were so annoying!!! I just wanted to see the SHIP and the costumes. It would have been shorter and much more entertaining that way. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 16:08:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AK8fMX011443 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AJ9icf007597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AJ9hBu028324; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:09:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AJ9eBu028270 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:09:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host217-35-5-82.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.5.82] helo=dan) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 193hQU-000532-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:09:35 +0100 Message-ID: <00d301c2ff94$b0f0a9c0$520523d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030410174718.LXNF15325.out006.verizon.net@localhost> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of GoldandSilver Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:09:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ron wrote: > > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of Gold > > andSilver > > > > > > > My understanding is that a much the "diary" isn't even the work > > of Henslowe, b ut rather his son in law Edward Alleyn. Edward was > > actually managing the Rose by the 1590s. It is also because of him > > that they survive as he donated them to the College of God's Gift > > which he apparently founded. > > > > I'm not aware of any evidence that Alleyn wrote any of the document > > usually referred to as Henslowe's Diary; there are entries made by > > Henslowe's brother, John, relating to Ashdown Forest, but the > > remainder appears to be by Philip. Apart, of course, from those > > entries made by the 19th century forger, J P Collier. Nor am I aware > > of any evidence that Alleyn was managing the Rose in the 1590's. I > > should be most interested to know the basis of this suggestion. > > However, there are large numbers of other documents in the Dulwich > > College Library and some of those do have entries made by Edward > > Alleyn. This may perhaps have led to some confusion. > > > > best wishes > > Stevie > > This is exactly why I prefaced this as "my understanding" rather than fact. By coincidence I had been reading a surprisingly detailed little book on Shakepeare and period theatre last week, and it mentioned this.( I am doing some research into the busness of theatres in the period). It also has a photo of one of the pages of the Henslowe Papers. It is however at best a secondary source (obviously). Now while I mention that it is detailed, it is not written in a very scholarly manner so I am not sure where some of its information comes from. When I get home I will try to remember to post the name and author of this little book and see if I can find any references quoted (though it doesn't seem to do a lot of that). Maybe you are familiar with the book and have some idea of its general accuracy. Book does have a lot of photos, sometimes of original items sometimes of recreated scenes and in the latter the costumes are often a little weak. Snap! My own research is on the socio-economics of the late 16th and early 17th century London public theatres, and in the happy event of my wrists ever deciding to resume normal service I may some day actually complete my 'writing up'. There are a lot of books around, and unfortunately few of them are accurate, and even fewer cite references, which makes sorting the wheat from the chaff even more difficult. Oh the joys of research... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 17:01:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3AL1mMX011756 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:01:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AK2wcf012991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AK2qZb007456; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:02:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AK2mZb007335 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200304102002.h3AK2mZb007335@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc72 (unknown[204.127.198.102]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <2003041020024305200lh4qde>; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:02:43 +0000 Received: from [205.225.207.97] by rwcrwbc72; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:02:43 +0000 From: mabse@attbi.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of GoldandSilver Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:02:43 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWFic2VAYXR0YmkuY29t X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO there is pretty good voice recognition software now. Maybe you can have your wrists and your book... maryann > Ron wrote: > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of > Gold > > > andSilver > > > > > > > > > My understanding is that a much the "diary" isn't even the > work > > > of Henslowe, b ut rather his son in law Edward Alleyn. Edward was > > > actually managing the Rose by the 1590s. It is also because of > him > > > that they survive as he donated them to the College of God's Gift > > > which he apparently founded. > > > > > > I'm not aware of any evidence that Alleyn wrote any of the > document > > > usually referred to as Henslowe's Diary; there are entries made by > > > Henslowe's brother, John, relating to Ashdown Forest, but the > > > remainder appears to be by Philip. Apart, of course, from those > > > entries made by the 19th century forger, J P Collier. Nor am I > aware > > > of any evidence that Alleyn was managing the Rose in the 1590's. I > > > should be most interested to know the basis of this suggestion. > > > However, there are large numbers of other documents in the Dulwich > > > College Library and some of those do have entries made by Edward > > > Alleyn. This may perhaps have led to some confusion. > > > > > > best wishes > > > Stevie > > > > > This is exactly why I prefaced this as "my understanding" rather > than fact. By coincidence I had been reading a surprisingly detailed > little book on Shakepeare and period theatre last week, and it > mentioned this.( I am doing some research into the busness of theatres > in the period). It also has a photo of one of the pages of the > Henslowe Papers. It is however at best a secondary source > (obviously). Now while I mention that it is detailed, it is not > written in a very scholarly manner so I am not sure where some of its > information comes from. When I get home I will try to remember to > post the name and author of this little book and see if I can find any > references quoted (though it doesn't seem to do a lot of that). Maybe > you are familiar with the book and have some idea of its general > accuracy. Book does have a lot of photos, sometimes of original items > sometimes of recreated scenes and in the latter the costumes are often > a little weak. > > Snap! My own research is on the socio-economics of the late 16th and > early 17th century London public theatres, and in the happy event of > my wrists ever deciding to resume normal service I may some day > actually complete my 'writing up'. There are a lot of books around, > and unfortunately few of them are accurate, and even fewer cite > references, which makes sorting the wheat from the chaff even more > difficult. Oh the joys of research... > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 17:56:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3ALuBMX012152 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AKuxcf019166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AKuw5B015277; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AKut5B015184 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:56:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.116.218392b5 (17526) for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:56:43 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <116.218392b5.2bc7348a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:56:42 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: titanic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/10/2003 3:03:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > And Rose having the diamond the whole > time! At the end of the movie, when she didn't give it to the nice captain > who brought her all the way out to sea, LOL!......or, like, maybe her daughter could have used it to set herself up for life. Or she coulda given it to a charity.....or maybe set up a fund for victims of the Titanic....but she friggin' throws it in the ocean. We'll she hadn't made a sane decision since 1912......why expect one now? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 17:59:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3ALxqMX012176 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AL0tcf019629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AL0s5B017675; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AL0q5B017658 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E057A995 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 51208-09 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix, from userid 313) id 690A67A994; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:00:32 -0700 (PDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:00:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030410210032.690A67A994@mail.wonderland.com> From: alice@wonderland.com (Heather Meadows) Subject: [h-cost] pre-made bustles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlterYears is out of stock on their pre-made bustles, and I need a hoop wire bustle for an 1880's dress. Before I give in and make one (I really didn't want to do that..) does anyone else make hoop bustles? .heather.meadows. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 19:49:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3ANnIMX012884 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:49:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AMmDcf001711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:48:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AMmBx0000375; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3AMm3x0000202 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781633A20B for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.16]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HD5GIK00.PYB for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:44:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3E960338.7050806@grics.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:50:16 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of GoldandSilver References: <200304102002.h3AK2mZb007335@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200304102002.h3AK2mZb007335@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is this something you can OCR scan? Most scanners come with the software included, even the cheepo ones. You still have to go in and correct stuff the scanner couldn't read, but you can use the find command to locate the couldn't-read-it indicators (usually @'s) Heather Law (not Rose) mabse@attbi.com wrote: >there is pretty good voice recognition software now. Maybe you can have your >wrists and your book... maryann > > >>Ron wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of >>>> >>>> >>Gold >> >> >>>>andSilver >>>> >>>> >>>>> My understanding is that a much the "diary" isn't even the >>>>> >>>>> >>work >> >> >>>>of Henslowe, b ut rather his son in law Edward Alleyn. Edward was >>>>actually managing the Rose by the 1590s. It is also because of >>>> >>>> >>him >> >> >>>>that they survive as he donated them to the College of God's Gift >>>>which he apparently founded. >>>> >>>>I'm not aware of any evidence that Alleyn wrote any of the >>>> >>>> >>document >> >> >>>>usually referred to as Henslowe's Diary; there are entries made by >>>>Henslowe's brother, John, relating to Ashdown Forest, but the >>>>remainder appears to be by Philip. Apart, of course, from those >>>>entries made by the 19th century forger, J P Collier. Nor am I >>>> >>>> >>aware >> >> >>>>of any evidence that Alleyn was managing the Rose in the 1590's. I >>>>should be most interested to know the basis of this suggestion. >>>>However, there are large numbers of other documents in the Dulwich >>>>College Library and some of those do have entries made by Edward >>>>Alleyn. This may perhaps have led to some confusion. >>>> >>>>best wishes >>>>Stevie >>>> >>>> >>> This is exactly why I prefaced this as "my understanding" rather >>> >>> >>than fact. By coincidence I had been reading a surprisingly detailed >>little book on Shakepeare and period theatre last week, and it >>mentioned this.( I am doing some research into the busness of theatres >>in the period). It also has a photo of one of the pages of the >>Henslowe Papers. It is however at best a secondary source >>(obviously). Now while I mention that it is detailed, it is not >>written in a very scholarly manner so I am not sure where some of its >>information comes from. When I get home I will try to remember to >>post the name and author of this little book and see if I can find any >>references quoted (though it doesn't seem to do a lot of that). Maybe >>you are familiar with the book and have some idea of its general >>accuracy. Book does have a lot of photos, sometimes of original items >>sometimes of recreated scenes and in the latter the costumes are often >>a little weak. >> >>Snap! My own research is on the socio-economics of the late 16th and >>early 17th century London public theatres, and in the happy event of >>my wrists ever deciding to resume normal service I may some day >>actually complete my 'writing up'. There are a lot of books around, >>and unfortunately few of them are accurate, and even fewer cite >>references, which makes sorting the wheat from the chaff even more >>difficult. Oh the joys of research... >> >>best wishes >>Stevie >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 20:40:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B0eJMX013329 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:40:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ANeScf006755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ANeLG7000246; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f28.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ANeJG7000143 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:40:13 -0700 Received: from 207.68.52.79 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:40:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.68.52.79] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: titanic Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:40:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2003 23:40:13.0701 (UTC) FILETIME=[88636350:01C2FFBA] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's why my plan is to rent the video someday so I can look at the costumes and fast forward through the "story". Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >But that's my point exactly. It would have been a much better movie if it >had been about the Titanic sinking, which was very well done and very sad. >But as far as the story goes -- well, I had no patience for stupid Rose, >the >spoiled brat. Like she would have been happier with all the poor immigrants >heading to work 12-hour days in American factories! And the stupid fiance >chasing Leonardo all over the ship! And Rose having the diamond the whole >time! At the end of the movie, when she didn't give it to the nice captain >who brought her all the way out to sea, I wanted to push her over the side >of the ship after it. I'm all for inter-class romance and doomed love, but >those two were so annoying!!! I just wanted to see the SHIP and the >costumes. It would have been shorter and much more entertaining that way. > >Gail Finke > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 20:48:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B0mJMX013378 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ANmScf007757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ANmSG7005104; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ANmOG7005012 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VALINOR ([24.102.199.33]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030410234818.FLSM4461.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:48:18 -0400 Message-ID: <00a001c2ffbb$a7828030$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030410183432.79940.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher Concert Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:48:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.199.33] using ID at Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:48:17 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I find that with pretty much every pair of pants I've ever bought; I need to put darts in at the center and/or side back or I get this big gaping thing going on. -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tasha McGann" To: Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher Concert > On a side note -- I actually CAN find my size at Old > Navy (at least the one near me). What kills me though > is that Old Navy cuts their women's pants as though > every woman has a flat backside, no waist, and an > untilted pelvis (i.e. no S-curve in their back). Come > to think of it, they feel like men's pants with a > curve for accomodating feminine thighs thrown in as an > afterthought. > > I routinely buy otherwise attractive pants in a larger > size and put two hefty darts in the back so they don't > fall off of my hips. I don't think I'm abnormally > shaped -- it's just the peculiar choice of the Old > Navy designers, I guess. Donna Karan, btw, cuts womens > pants very nicely, I've found. > > -Tasha > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 21:07:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B17bMX013584 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:07:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B07kcf009399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:07:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B07k0V015025; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:07:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B07g0V015002 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.124.3.178] (p18.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.178]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3B08a321649 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:08:36 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:05:34 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: titanic From: sylvia To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 4/10/03 12:57 PM, Gail & Scott Finke at gailscott@eos.net wrote: > > > But that's my point exactly. It would have been a much better movie if it > had been about the Titanic sinking, which was very well done and very sad. > But as far as the story goes -- well, I had no patience for stupid Rose, the > spoiled brat. Like she would have been happier with all the poor immigrants > heading to work 12-hour days in American factories! And the stupid fiance > chasing Leonardo all over the ship! And Rose having the diamond the whole > time! At the end of the movie, when she didn't give it to the nice captain > who brought her all the way out to sea, I wanted to push her over the side > of the ship after it. I'm all for inter-class romance and doomed love, but > those two were so annoying!!! I just wanted to see the SHIP and the > costumes. It would have been shorter and much more entertaining that way. > I agree. I think the attempt to provide historical accuracy to sets, costumes and props at the expense of a good story is reprehensible and an easy way out. I know you can't blame it on the designers who are just doing their job, but I feel like the director and producers are just hoping that with all that detail no one will notice how bad the script is. Sylvia Rognstad, another mother for peace -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 21:15:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B1FAMX013632 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0FLcf009957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0FL0V018545; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:15:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0FI0W018523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h3B0FInb018520 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:15:18 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: titanic Message-ID: <20030411001518.GC12890@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think we've established that some people here hate the movie, some love it, and some haven't seen it. Can we please move on? Thanks, ...eliz -- You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 21:25:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B1PiMX013728 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:25:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0Pqcf010913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:25:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0Pp0V023795; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0Pn0V023765 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 33-117.tnt-1.york.supernet.com ([64.41.33.117] helo=[64.41.32.126]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 193mMV-0005rU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:25:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200304110008.h3B0860X015138@net.indra.com> References: <200304110008.h3B0860X015138@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:25:37 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in the Baltimore Area??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK since y'all made my life sooo much easier in the pattern material department, I have another request. Our local Joanns has cut the fabric dept drastically! They have no swim suit material, and they are not carrying any neon brite, solid colored cloth of any type this year :-( Naturally this year I need a lot of neon colored cloth... (No, it's not for the 'Celts on Acid' show... ) Soooo are there any fabric warehouse/mill end type stores located near Baltimore, or York/Harrisburg PA??? Or should I just give up and order off the Net? Sigh, ya try and shop locally, but.... Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 21:49:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B1nJMX013796 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:49:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0nTcf012656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0nS0V004777; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:49:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B0nL0W004730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h3B0nAut028437 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:49:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h3B0mqfd028428 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:48:52 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher Concert Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:48:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030410183432.79940.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> <00a001c2ffbb$a7828030$6401a8c0@VALINOR> In-Reply-To: <00a001c2ffbb$a7828030$6401a8c0@VALINOR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200304102048.52141.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3B0nL0W004730 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 10 April 2003 07:48 pm, Herself-the-Elf wrote: > I find that with pretty much every pair of pants I've ever bought; I need > to put darts in at the center and/or side back or I get this big gaping > thing going on. > > -- Maral > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tasha McGann" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 2:34 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher > Concert > > > On a side note -- I actually CAN find my size at Old > > Navy (at least the one near me). What kills me though > > is that Old Navy cuts their women's pants as though > > every woman has a flat backside, no waist, and an > > untilted pelvis (i.e. no S-curve in their back). Come > > to think of it, they feel like men's pants with a > > curve for accomodating feminine thighs thrown in as an > > afterthought. I know exactly what you and Tasha mean. Of course, most women, even women who are not at all overweight, are simply not built like men. Back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, it was as though no one making women's clothes for the US could cut pants for women that weren't either hopelessly large through the waist or fit like a second skin. I refused to buy pants suits until the early 1990s, when it was finally possible to get a comfortable, professional-looking fit. -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 22:03:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B23MMX013849 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:03:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B13Wcf013731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:03:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B13VXC011515; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B13TXC011457 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:03:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DarlaKDavis@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.14d.1dfc3a40 (4362) for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:03:18 -0400 (EDT) From: DarlaKDavis@aol.com Message-ID: <14d.1dfc3a40.2bc76e55@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:03:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Cher concert X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok. I admit, I LOVED the Cher concert. So much so, I ordered the CD they advertised after the show (NOT the songs in the show, just some.) Sonny and Cher was the first concert I ever attended. I was 13. Back then, Sonny was still wearing the famous fur vests. It was SO long ago, it was before Cher caused a sensation, made the news and magazines by wearing, yes, a DRESS in public. Keeping this on topic: I wore a black poor-boy T-shirt and a way cool light blue A-line skirt, with black grosgrain ribbon down the side seams. I was HOT! Later it got better when I embroidered solid red and yellow flames up the legs of my Levis. Wow, does it get any better than that? Darla (missing the good old days, and my paisely dress and white fishnet stockings) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 22:05:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B258MX013855 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:05:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B156cf013833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B155XC012130; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail015.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail015.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B153XC012079 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h3B14sK28563 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:04:57 +1000 Message-ID: <00be01c2ffc6$a5e9b6c0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030410183432.79940.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher Concert Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:06:53 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Wow, you are inside of my head! I have this complaint > EVERYwhere I shop -- "what's so hard about ordering > double the number of size 12-18?" It's basic -- supply I used to work at a clothing wholesalers and they sold their women's clothes in 'packs' which contained (Australian sizes) something like this 8 x 1, 10 x 2, 12 x 3 14 x 2, 16 x 1. So maybe it is the manufacturers'/importers' fault and not the particular clothing store because they can only order what is available to them. On the other hand, men's clothes tended to be sold on an 'each' basis where you just ordered exactly what you wanted. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 22:31:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B2VjMX014012 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:31:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B1Vkcf016004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B1VjXC025056; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B1VgXC024990 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001 ([192.168.129.213]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030411013137.VXQT19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:31:37 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of GoldandSilver Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:31:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [192.168.129.213] at Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:31:37 -0500 Message-Id: <20030411013137.VXQT19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: "Stevie Gamble" > Date: 2003/04/10 Thu PM 03:09:20 EDT > To: "Historical Costume" > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of > GoldandSilver > > > > I'm not aware of any evidence that Alleyn wrote any of the > document > > > usually referred to as Henslowe's Diary; there are entries made by > > > Henslowe's brother, John, relating to Ashdown Forest, but the > > > remainder appears to be by Philip. Apart, of course, from those > > > entries made by the 19th century forger, J P Collier. Nor am I > aware > > > of any evidence that Alleyn was managing the Rose in the 1590's. I > > > should be most interested to know the basis of this suggestion. > > > However, there are large numbers of other documents in the Dulwich Okay, now that I am home. The Book is WILLIAMS SHAKESPEARE THER EXTRAORDINARY LIF OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL WRITER OF ALL TIME by Andrew Gurr. It is a curious book filled with quite a bit of information regarding the life and times of Shakespeare, even though it is in a "picture" book format. I can not speak to the accuracy of the theatre specific information (which I was hoping to work on) but it's general Elizabethan information is pretty good. I also earlier called the costuming weak, but I want to amend that. Some of it is rather good and most of it appears well made. I suspect it is some sort of theatrical costuming however, as much of it fits the wearers poorly. Also, in at least one case a man is wearing narrow fall breeches more common to the later half of the 18th century than to the 16th! There are no references in the book, only thanks to the various libraries and museums that helped the project (including Dulwich College). I suspect that these mentions are more for the use of images than anything else. Gurr seems like a fellow in the know according to his CV ( http://www.rdg.ac.uk/globe/siteinfo/Andy.htm )but the work itself does not allow for any understanding on how he reached his conclusions. Are you familiar with his work at all? Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 22:46:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B2kdMX014100 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:46:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B1kkcf017981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B1kiXC004563; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B1keXC004515 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-004-026.jps.net ([216.119.4.26] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 193ncl-0005qw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:46:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c2ffcd$d5bce460$1a0477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030411013137.VXQT19613.out001.verizon.net@out001> Subject: who wrote the Henslowe papers? was - Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth ofGoldandSilver Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:58:21 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you come up with any folio numbers as to who wrote what in the next two weeks, I can scan the related pages and pass them on, for handwriting comparision. I've got a library copy of the facsimile me at the moment. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth ofGoldandSilver > > > > > From: "Stevie Gamble" > > Date: 2003/04/10 Thu PM 03:09:20 EDT > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Henslowe's Diary was - more on Cloth of > > GoldandSilver > > > > > > > > > I'm not aware of any evidence that Alleyn wrote any of the > > document > > > > usually referred to as Henslowe's Diary; there are entries made by > > > > Henslowe's brother, John, relating to Ashdown Forest, but the > > > > remainder appears to be by Philip. Apart, of course, from those > > > > entries made by the 19th century forger, J P Collier. Nor am I > > aware > > > > of any evidence that Alleyn was managing the Rose in the 1590's. I > > > > should be most interested to know the basis of this suggestion. > > > > However, there are large numbers of other documents in the Dulwich > > > Okay, now that I am home. The Book is WILLIAMS SHAKESPEARE THER EXTRAORDINARY LIF OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL WRITER OF ALL TIME by Andrew Gurr. It is a curious book filled with quite a bit of information regarding the life and times of Shakespeare, even though it is in a "picture" book format. I can not speak to the accuracy of the theatre specific information (which I was hoping to work on) but it's general Elizabethan information is pretty good. I also earlier called the costuming weak, but I want to amend that. Some of it is rather good and most of it appears well made. I suspect it is some sort of theatrical costuming however, as much of it fits the wearers poorly. Also, in at least one case a man is wearing narrow fall breeches more common to the later half of the 18th century than to the 16th! > > There are no references in the book, only thanks to the various libraries and museums that helped the project (including Dulwich College). I suspect that these mentions are more for the use of images than anything else. > > Gurr seems like a fellow in the know according to his CV ( http://www.rdg.ac.uk/globe/siteinfo/Andy.htm )but the work itself does not allow for any understanding on how he reached his conclusions. Are you familiar with his work at all? > > Cheers, > Ron > > R.Carnegie@verizon.net > "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." > R. Bach > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 10 23:19:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B3JWMX014194 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B2Jgcf020646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B2JeZa021136; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B2JcZa021088 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1e2.68008b1 (4214) for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:19:31 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1e2.68008b1.2bc78033@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:19:31 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in the Baltimore Area??? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Blank's, off Security Blvd. (near the Beltway and I70) and Hancock's in Randallstown--they are still carrying swimsuit fabric, I think, but am not sure of the neon brights. Is Thurmont close enough? I'm going to check out Discount Fabrics there on Sunday. Have no idea if they have what you are looking for, but I've heard their assortment is pretty amazing. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 00:17:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B4HeMX014476 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:17:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3Hncf024490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3Hlxf017615; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3Hgxf017515 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p852-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.90] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193p2p-00060L-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:17:39 +1200 Message-ID: <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:17:45 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] My new site:) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey all just had confirmation that my new website is live:) So here we go: http://www.glittersweet.com I have just my costumes and the frazzled frau (german renaissance women's clothing links) up at the moment, will be working on some more costume content soon:) for some strange reason I cannot access it, but I've had two people tell me they can so this is just really odd. michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 00:18:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B4I7MX014479 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3ILcf024543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3IKxf017964; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3Hmxf017564 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user116.net262.oh.sprint-hsd.net [208.17.70.116]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3B3HhV20475 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:17:43 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in the Baltimore Area??? Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:17:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c2ffd8$e8fabb00$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <1e2.68008b1.2bc78033@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is Thurmont close enough? I'm going to check out Discount Fabrics there on Sunday. Have no idea if they have what you are looking for, but I've heard their assortment is pretty amazing. Discount Fabrics in Thurmont, MD specializes in fabrics and trimmings for home decor: drapery, upholstery, leather, etc. The selection is amazing, the prices can be very good or not so great, and (depending on what your making) may or may not be suitable for garments. I don't know if they have anything in neon brights, but I'm 99% certain you won't find swimwear. But if you're anywhere close it's worth a stop. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Citizens of the 1860s Conference March 4-7, 2004 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 00:32:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B4WgMX014690 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3Wncf025544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3Wlxf024570; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3Wfxf024462 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A7573F1F00EA; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:32:39 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A757154900EC; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:32:39 -0500 Message-ID: <019901c2ffda$c9f31660$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:31:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Michaela, I can get the Splash page but the image map or rollover is not working. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 11:17 PM Subject: [h-cost] My new site:) > Hey all just had confirmation that my new website is live:) > > So here we go: > http://www.glittersweet.com > > > I have just my costumes and the frazzled frau (german renaissance women's > clothing links) up at the moment, will be working on some more costume > content soon:) > > for some strange reason I cannot access it, but I've had two people tell me > they can so this is just really odd. > > michaela > http://www.glittersweet.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 00:40:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B4eYMX014732 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:40:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3egcf026102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:40:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3efxf027954; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B3ecxf027900 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:40:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p852-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.90] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193pP2-0005XL-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:40:37 +1200 Message-ID: <000701c2ffdc$23af8a70$5ac3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <019901c2ffda$c9f31660$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:40:46 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I can get the Splash page but the image map or rollover is not working. I don't have an image map, I have linked transparent gifs. Only two are live: the costumes and german ren ones. I can get to that page using the hosted address, and it works fine for me... hmmm... I might try something that really shouldn't have any effect but who knows... It's just really odd the different responses. I know I've had someone access all my costume pages, and another just said it was working. But I can't even acces it at all. I haven't had a reply to my last email to support either. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 01:01:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B51aMX014820 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:01:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B41icf027766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:01:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B41g2k006979; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3B41c2k006945 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:01:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22547 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2003 04:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.238) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2003 04:01:37 -0000 Message-ID: <002d01c2ffdf$0e8f2fd0$ee42a6d0@bookbusiness> From: "Janet Davis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:01:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a great selection of German renaissance pictures! It earned a place on my "Favorites" list! Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 01:23:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B5NJMX014920 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:23:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B4NUcf029762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B4NT2k016964; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B4NQ2k016923 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD500L0XVNSU8@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:07:38 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) In-reply-to: <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030410210323.00b1e318@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/8/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:17 PM 4/11/2003 +1200, you wrote: >Hey all just had confirmation that my new website is live:) > >So here we go: >http://www.glittersweet.com > > >I have just my costumes and the frazzled frau (german renaissance women's >clothing links) up at the moment, will be working on some more costume >content soon:) Hi Michaela, Looks good! I can access it fine myself with the two links, but I noticed a glitch on the Costume page. Bottom right corner of the images. reindeer href="reindeer.htm"> collaboration Otherwise, I love your costume works and the frazzled frau portion. Great job! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 01:43:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B5hRMX015140 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:43:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B4hdcf002144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B4hc2k026614; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B4hZ2k026593 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A7F61F2900D6; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:43:34 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7F722F20230; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:43:35 -0500 Message-ID: <01d901c2ffe4$ab550f60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030410210323.00b1e318@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:41:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Michaela, Now from the image map, all I can only get into is "costume portfolio" and German Renn. I really like the new layout! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) > At 03:17 PM 4/11/2003 +1200, you wrote: > >Hey all just had confirmation that my new website is live:) > > > >So here we go: > >http://www.glittersweet.com > > > > > >I have just my costumes and the frazzled frau (german renaissance women's > >clothing links) up at the moment, will be working on some more costume > >content soon:) > > > Hi Michaela, > > Looks good! I can access it fine myself with the two links, but I noticed a > glitch on the Costume page. Bottom right corner of the images. > > reindeer href="reindeer.htm"> collaboration > > Otherwise, I love your costume works and the frazzled frau portion. > > Great job! > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 03:44:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B7i3MX006376 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:44:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6iDcf011146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6i8OZ015644; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:44:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6i6OZ015629 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A122038B for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.16]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HD62JZ00.2YI for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:40:47 -0500 Message-ID: <3E9672CC.2050306@grics.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:46:20 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO WOW. And i *love* the way you laid out that costume portfolio part. This is like the way i want to do the index for the site i've been going to put up Forever: Thumbnails right on the first page, for use as links to all the stuff. Do you have any secret sources of good webbing info you could point me to? Heather L michaela wrote: >Hey all just had confirmation that my new website is live:) > >So here we go: >http://www.glittersweet.com > > >I have just my costumes and the frazzled frau (german renaissance women's >clothing links) up at the moment, will be working on some more costume >content soon:) > >for some strange reason I cannot access it, but I've had two people tell me >they can so this is just really odd. > >michaela >http://www.glittersweet.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 03:53:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B7rAMX008494 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:53:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6rMcf011576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:53:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6rLOZ018752; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6rHOZ018727 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p87-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.87] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193sPS-0005KX-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:53:15 +1200 Message-ID: <001601c2fff7$0c01e150$57d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <002d01c2ffdf$0e8f2fd0$ee42a6d0@bookbusiness> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:53:20 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What a great selection of German renaissance pictures! It earned a place on > my "Favorites" list! Thanks:) I had those links for quite some time.. then a few sites changed their folders so I had to go find them again;) I've had the site at frazzledfrau.tripod.com for... gosh... I don't know;) But it was mostly restricted to the black and white scans I did from Die Mode. Speaking of which I have a few more to upload;) Now I need to make sure all those sites that linked to the tripod site also has my new url. I'll keep the tripod one as a mirror though:) I created the site because there are so many different styles of that era and place that so few people know about, all those big trumpet sleeves for one:) Now I'm going to see if I can do smaller sites that are similar for my other fav eras:) michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 03:55:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B7tgMX009012 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6tucf011705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6tuvt019554; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B6tqvt019526 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p87-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.87] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193sRy-00047F-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:55:50 +1200 Message-ID: <002201c2fff7$6980d110$57d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030410210323.00b1e318@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:56:00 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Looks good! I can access it fine myself with the two links, but I noticed a > glitch on the Costume page. Bottom right corner of the images. > reindeer href="reindeer.htm"> collaboration > Otherwise, I love your costume works and the frazzled frau portion. Thanks;) Yes I just noticed that myself on the pages on my hard drive. I'm about to upload it, along with the removal of the frames:) I only had them for the tripod site because at that time the pop ups stayed behind the main window. But they'd changed things a while ago. That's mostly what prompted me to get my own site:) I'm also uploading new piccies of the Phantom Dressing gown. I love my digital camera:) michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 04:04:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B84BMX010627 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 04:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B74Kcf012180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:04:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B74Hvt022953; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:04:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B74Evt022928 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p87-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.87] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193sa1-0006CY-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:04:12 +1200 Message-ID: <002801c2fff8$9324f400$57d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <3E9672CC.2050306@grics.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:04:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > WOW. And i *love* the way you laid out that costume portfolio part. > This is like the way i want to do the index for the site i've been going > to put up Forever: Thumbnails right on the first page, for use as links > to all the stuff. Do you have any secret sources of good webbing info > you could point me to? Thanks:) I did that because while on tripod I often exceeded my bandwidth alotment. It means that people can see at a glance whether they want to go further into the site or if they want to see the full image etc, without using much bandwidth. Hmm... good webbing info.. well I use HTML complete a fair bit. Though I mostly get inspired by what I see on the net, what I like what I don't. And while I do love fancy layouts, I'm on dial up so it takes a long time to view most pages like that. So I use few graphics and css in my layout. As for programs, I type all the code, as it keeps the code clean so the pages load faster. I also have a few freeware thumbnail programs which I use if I need to make them in bulk, other wise I use the graphics editor that came with my comp. For the cutsie teeny thumbnails I used Photoshop however. As I had to make a few of them from half lengths or a few images put together. And of course it has a lovely selection of selection tools;) Is that helpful at all? michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 04:06:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B86oMX011200 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 04:06:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B775cf012345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B774vt024073; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3B772vt024031 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030411070656.36620.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:06:56 BST Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:06:56 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is lovely Michaela, and the idea with the wee thumbnails for the costumes is just great. It went straight into my 'costumers' bookmark folder and trust me, not many costumers are honoured to be in there *grins* I always liked your Frazzled Fray site anyway, and all in one place without pop-ups is great. Nicole --- michaela wrote: > Hey all just had confirmation that my new website is live:) > > So here we go: > http://www.glittersweet.com > > > I have just my costumes and the frazzled frau (german renaissance women's > clothing links) up at the moment, will be working on some more costume > content soon:) > ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 04:08:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B88RMX011530 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 04:08:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B78gcf012473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B78fvt024735; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B78cvt024719 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:08:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p87-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.87] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193seK-0005Ss-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:08:36 +1200 Message-ID: <003a01c2fff9$31140390$57d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030410210323.00b1e318@127.0.0.1> <01d901c2ffe4$ab550f60$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:08:44 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Now from the image map, all I can only get into is "costume portfolio" and > German Renn. I really like the new layout! yep that's all I've got up so far. Well they are the most important really.. being the more useful and or more popular of my old sites;) I still have to get my files from my Girl's Own Annual (1906-1911) and the Moulin Rouge and Phantom of the Opera mega-links pages (in both cases mostly about recreations but also for useful images/info). Oh and apparently there is a problem upstream of me, but downstream of the server my site it on. No one in NZ can see my site, and it's to do with a server that processes (whatever) IPS for the Pacific. Hopefully it will be updated in the next day. michaela http://www.glittersweet.com so odd that it's *me* who can't see the site;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 05:16:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B9GmMX010324 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:16:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B8Gvcf017386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B8Gumf027165; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B8Gqmf027143 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p87-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.87] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193tiL-0003hS-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:16:49 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c30002$a6190ce0$57d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030411070656.36620.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:16:11 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is lovely Michaela, and the idea with the wee thumbnails for the costumes > is just great. It went straight into my 'costumers' bookmark folder and trust > me, not many costumers are honoured to be in there *grins* Aw shucks:) Thanks:) Heheh, I love my teeny wee thumbnails:) I said I'd use them after seeing: http://www.paris.fr/musees/Musee_Galliera/ I thought.. that's exactly what I need;) Maybe I could make them adoptable;) Like those Dollz;) hey collect and trade them all.. lol! > I always liked your Frazzled Fray site anyway, and all in one place without > pop-ups is great. Yeah, trust me I *love* having no ads it's great;) I'm now able to get my mail from the site (no error message trying to get it)... but I still can't view the site...... but hopefully it won't be long now... sigh. It's not my ISP nor the hosts fault, it's some DNS server thingy between us. I wonder if people in Aus can see it.... michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 05:21:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3B9LFMX012350 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:21:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B8LPcf017712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B8LOmf028549; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B8LLmf028528 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3B8LKp28741.; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:21:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:21:19 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:21:10 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher Concert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3B8LLmf028528 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> Robin wrote: >Not to mention they carry very small quantities of the >larger women's >sizes, which sell out *fast*. You'd think that would >send a message that >they should stock more of the larger sizes, but no... Here in the UK I have the opposite problem. As a 51-year-old size 10 (US size 8?) I find it's the smaller sizes that sell out first in the shops, and mail-order catalogues often don't offer the styles I want, or that are designed for my age group, in anything below a 12. The average Englishwoman may be getting larger, but there are still quite a few of us petites around! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 06:51:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BApNMX031382 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:51:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B9pYcf024793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B9pR63002582; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3B9pN63002489 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:51:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h3B9pHg10430 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:51:17 +1000 Message-ID: <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:50:16 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hey all just had confirmation that my new website is live:) > > So here we go: > http://www.glittersweet.com Fantabulous!! I am really sorry to see all those goddamn tripod pop-ups go! The layout is really great. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 08:45:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BCjSMX031765 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:45:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BBjbcf000794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BBjacn012522; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:45:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imf22bis.bellsouth.net (mail122.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BBjYcn012498 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:45:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlphaB ([66.156.2.159]) by imf22bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.25 201-253-122-122-125-20020815) with ESMTP id <20030411114735.BAKT15096.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@AlphaB> for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:47:35 -0400 From: "Ann Neff" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Shopping in Atlanta Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:45:17 -0400 Message-ID: <003901c3001f$d61bfb10$5f67fea9@AlphaB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just looked at the Costume Con 22 website http://www.cc22.org/ They have a page on shopping, including stores a costumer would love. http://www.cc22.org/shopping.html -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Colleen McDonald Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:45 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Shopping in Atlanta I'm going to be in Atlanta next week and will have some time to kill. Are there any absolute "must see"'s for fabric and costuming shops for someone interest in medieval and renaissance Italian clothes? Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 08:54:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BCs4MX031807 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:54:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BBsHcf001178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BBsGcn015054; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BBsDcn015032 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p163-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.163] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193x6g-0005TF-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:54:11 +1200 Message-ID: <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:54:06 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > http://www.glittersweet.com > > Fantabulous!! > > I am really sorry to see all those goddamn tripod pop-ups go! > > The layout is really great. Thanks:) But I still can't se the damn thing. This has been one of those really really crappy days and this just isn't helping. sigh. In two days I'm supposed to enter a cosplay contest and the rules seem to have changed on me, I've had no reply to emails and each part of the costume I was planning for the new rules has just not worked. I'm having issues with things not drying and things being the wrong colour. I just want to go hide. michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 09:25:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BDPQMX031942 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:25:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BCPccf003094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BCPbmo026506; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BCPYmo026430 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:25:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h3BCPSN32327 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:25:28 +1000 Message-ID: <011b01c30025$b81e9db0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela><00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:27:19 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "michaela" > > > http://www.glittersweet.com > > > > Fantabulous!! > > > > I am really sorry to see all those goddamn tripod pop-ups go! > > > > The layout is really great. > > Thanks:) > > But I still can't se the damn thing. This has been one of those really > really crappy days and this just isn't helping. sigh. In two days I'm > supposed to enter a cosplay contest and the rules seem to have changed on > me, I've had no reply to emails and each part of the costume I was planning > for the new rules has just not worked. I'm having issues with things not > drying and things being the wrong colour. > > I just want to go hide. Fingers crossed the weekend will bring you 'net revelation! Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 09:59:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BDxVMX032110 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:59:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BCxfcf005927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BCxd4J010314; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:59:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BCxb4J010252 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:59:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.3a.374effe1 (4560) for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:59:29 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <3a.374effe1.2bc81631@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:59:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in the Baltimore Area??? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/10/2003 11:18:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes: > The selection is amazing, > the prices can be very good or not so great, And they are having a sale for the whole month of April--hence my trek up there. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 10:25:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BEOxMX032220 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:24:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BDOZcf008404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BDOY4J021044; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:24:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BDOR4J021004 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-003-091.jps.net ([216.119.3.91] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 193yW2-0006vH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:24:26 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01c3002f$50426fa0$5b0377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela><00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:36:07 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looks great Michaela! I'm curious, how does one dye their hair with crepe paper? Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 14:09:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BI9XMX001166 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:09:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BH8Ocf001493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BH8Lmp009496; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BH8Hmp009413 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.115] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3A3D15014A; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 12:56:03 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c3004a$d86b5ac0$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 12:53:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] heads up X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3BI9XMX001166 Status: RO I just opened my copy of Pieceworks for May and found some more of Elizabethan era embroidery that some of you might find interesting. The article is "The Fashionable Embroidered Casket" which is found in the national museum of Scotland. Lots of nice detail to look at and history for the art form. Among the museum shows to watch for: ST. Louis Museum through May 18, "Painted Prints, The Revelation of Color in Northern Renaissance And Baroque Engravings, Etchings and woodcuts" Also at the MMA, New York, "Goddess"...ageless style of classical dress (Costume Institute, May 1-August 3) Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 16:51:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BKpAMX002302 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:51:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BJo7cf018351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BJo3W3020878; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BJo0W3020842 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B5728A6E for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.16]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HD72XR00.J45 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:46:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3E972AFB.2010201@grics.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:52:11 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <3E9672CC.2050306@grics.net> <002801c2fff8$9324f400$57d1adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <002801c2fff8$9324f400$57d1adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you so much, this helped me massively. It's *exactly* what I need, for what I want to do. For those with old or cheepie computers/software (like me), no time or no patience for clicking thru 13 layers of pages just to see one pic only to find out it wasn't what they were looking for anyway. And those who think visually, like most costumers. Photoshop rocks doesn't it? Hope you don't mind if I get inspired by your site :-) Thanks again! Heather L michaela wrote: >>WOW. And i *love* the way you laid out that costume portfolio part. >>This is like the way i want to do the index for the site i've been going >>to put up Forever: Thumbnails right on the first page, for use as links >>to all the stuff. Do you have any secret sources of good webbing info >>you could point me to? >> >> > >Thanks:) > >I did that because while on tripod I often exceeded my bandwidth alotment. >It means that people can see at a glance whether they want to go further >into the site or if they want to see the full image etc, without using much >bandwidth. > >Hmm... good webbing info.. well I use HTML complete a fair bit. Though I >mostly get inspired by what I see on the net, what I like what I don't. And >while I do love fancy layouts, I'm on dial up so it takes a long time to >view most pages like that. So I use few graphics and css in my layout. > >As for programs, I type all the code, as it keeps the code clean so the >pages load faster. > >I also have a few freeware thumbnail programs which I use if I need to make >them in bulk, other wise I use the graphics editor that came with my comp. >For the cutsie teeny thumbnails I used Photoshop however. As I had to make a >few of them from half lengths or a few images put together. And of course it >has a lovely selection of selection tools;) > Is that helpful at all? > >michaela >http://www.glittersweet.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 17:27:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3BLRtMX002485 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:27:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BKIecf021335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:18:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BKIa4h009390; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BKIX4h009367 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1944yn-0005sp-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:18:33 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:00:01 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: Gabled headdresses? (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne Dress) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. No, the MoL frames are not like mine. They seem to be only a frame for the front edge - they are just each one piece of bent wire, really, folded in half to make two parallel sides maybe a couple of inches apart, and then bent into the gable shape. Since I did my web pages, I've found more evidence that perhaps the back part was more like stiffened fabric rather than a frame... but it's all guesswork under the velvet, really. Jean Brenda Bell wrote >Sue Clemenger wrote: > >>OCC: I don't remember seeing a supportasse in the V&A, but then, I only >>had a few hours there, and that was pretty much spent frantically >>photographing things in the textile rooms. I do remember seeing, >>however, two metal frameworks for english gable headresses at the MoL. > ><*perking up*> >Did you manage to photograph those frameworks? Do they look anything >like Jean's frame? <*insert cartoonish begging and annoying sounds and >motions*> > >I did my first English hood last year based on the instructions on >Jean's page, and would certainly be interested in the info... > > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 20:33:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3C0XmMX003375 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BNVpcf011682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BNVnne008539; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3BNVjne008487 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:31:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p940-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.178] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1947zi-0006X2-00; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:31:42 +1200 Message-ID: <002b01c30082$7f49b030$b2c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela><00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan><001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <002e01c3002f$50426fa0$5b0377d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:31:36 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Looks great Michaela! Thank you:) I still can't see it though;) I'm going to try on other computors to see if it's ok there. It might well just be my ISP not a country wide thing. > I'm curious, how does one dye their hair with crepe paper? Oohh, did I edit that out? Basically you take one packet (it was enough for my hair, which is full but fine and very long, oh and very blonde at that stage) and squish it into some warm water. I used about 500ml (two cups). I chose warm because it's nicer on the head and it does help the dye come out a bit faster. Then you just dunk your hair in it. It's rather like washing your hair in a baisin. But of course you are adding colour:) Squeeze out as much moisture as you can and then it's best to blow dry right away. It stops the dye getting everywhere else. It then washes out relatively quickly. Most of it in one wash then most of that the next wash. My hair is notorious for absorbing dye, so I had soft pink streaks for two weeks. Even one day hair dye lasts several months in my hair. Of course it helps if your hair is lighter than the colour you want to go;) And I probably wouldn't recommend a blonde trying for black. Probably wind up with licorice green:) But then it would come out relatively easier than hair dye:) michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 11 23:51:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3C3pWMX004182 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:51:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C2oDcf024855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C2oBBE028514; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:50:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C2o5BE028483 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5417A983 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 75315-07 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-185-157.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.185.157]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7B27A99E for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:29:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: weird pants construction at Old Navy; was Cher Concert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is why I like to buy from shops that have storefronts and catalogs/websites. The stores rarely have the sizes I want, but I can see the color, or try on the one or two things in my size, go home and order several items online, and return them to the storefront - no shipping back. I love that. (jcrew and bananarepublic both do that in the US, at least) .heather. On Friday, April 11, 2003, at 01:21 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >>>> Robin wrote: >> Not to mention they carry very small quantities of the >> larger women's >> sizes, which sell out *fast*. You'd think that would >> send a message that >> they should stock more of the larger sizes, but no... > > Here in the UK I have the opposite problem. As a 51-year-old size 10 > (US size 8?) I find it's the smaller sizes that sell out first in the > shops, and mail-order catalogues often don't offer the styles I want, > or that are designed for my age group, in anything below a 12. The > average Englishwoman may be getting larger, but there are still quite > a few of us petites around! > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 03:31:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3C7VTMX023357 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:31:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C6UMcf010402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C6UECr022238; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C6UACr022194 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836F920721 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.20]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HD7WKQ00.37B for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:26:50 -0500 Message-ID: <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:32:22 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know what? I've found that sometimes that is exactly what I need to do when things pile up: go hide! If you can steal some time, even a few minutes, find a quiet spot, shut the door on everything and everyone. Maybe do something *easy* like throw on some music and eat ice cream, drive out to a nearby part and take a walk, go shopping...... Hang in there, you're going great guns! Heather L michaela wrote: >But I still can't se the damn thing. This has been one of those really >really crappy days and this just isn't helping. sigh. In two days I'm >supposed to enter a cosplay contest and the rules seem to have changed on >me, I've had no reply to emails and each part of the costume I was planning >for the new rules has just not worked. I'm having issues with things not >drying and things being the wrong colour. > >I just want to go hide. > >michaela >http://www.glittersweet.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 04:06:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3C86PMX030963 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 04:06:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C75Hcf013482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:05:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C75GD3006826; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3C75DD3006806 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3C74Ck13905 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304120704.h3C74Ck13905@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "michaela" wrote: > > I'm curious, how does one dye their hair with crepe paper? > > Oohh, did I edit that out? > > Basically you take one packet (it was enough for my hair, which is full but > fine and very long, oh and very blonde at that stage) and squish it into > some warm water. I used about 500ml (two cups). I chose warm because it's > nicer on the head and it does help the dye come out a bit faster. > > Then you just dunk your hair in it. It's rather like washing your hair in a > baisin. But of course you are adding colour:) > > Squeeze out as much moisture as you can and then it's best to blow dry right > away. It stops the dye getting everywhere else. > > It then washes out relatively quickly. Most of it in one wash then most of > that the next wash. > > My hair is notorious for absorbing dye, so I had soft pink streaks for two > weeks. Even one day hair dye lasts several months in my hair. > > Of course it helps if your hair is lighter than the colour you want to go;) > And I probably wouldn't recommend a blonde trying for black. Probably wind > up with licorice green:) But then it would come out relatively easier than > hair dye:) [grin] This sounds similar to our high-school adventures in dyeing hair with Kool-Aid. Definitely use the sugar-free type if you're going to try this. The best results we got were mixing a couple packets of drink mix with a creamy conditioner that's white (no color clash). Warm it up in the microwave and slather it on your hair. Leave for an hour or two under a plastic cap. Rinse out. It'll bleed like mad. If you leave the dye on for a shorter period, it'll wash out faster, but the color won't be as intense. We used to dye our hair that way before the various weird color dye lines like Punky Colors, Manic Panic and Special Effects were available. Kool Aid gave more consistant results than food coloring (though I'd never had access to the concentrated coloring pastes used for cake icing back then). Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 08:45:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3CCjmMX021109 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:45:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CBihcf024884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CBidBK003118; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CBiYBK003102 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p952-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.190] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194JQt-0004yP-00; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:44:32 +1200 Message-ID: <003601c300e8$dea89a30$bec3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304120704.h3C74Ck13905@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:44:24 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > [grin] This sounds similar to our high-school adventures in dyeing hair > with Kool-Aid. Definitely use the sugar-free type if you're going to try > this. The best results we got were mixing a couple packets of drink mix > with a creamy conditioner that's white (no color clash). Warm it up in the > microwave and slather it on your hair. I shall definately be adding this to my list of "how toos":) Though we don't have Kool Aid here so I might have to see if raro is a good substitute;) michaela finally able to see my own site;) darned middle men servers;) http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 09:01:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3CD1dMX021184 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 09:01:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CC0Vcf025814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CC0VY2008517; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CC0RY2008499 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p952-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.190] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194JgG-0003ui-00; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:00:25 +1200 Message-ID: <004201c300eb$19323060$bec3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela><00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan><001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:00:22 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You know what? I've found that sometimes that is exactly what I need to > do when things pile up: go hide! If you can steal some time, even a few > minutes, find a quiet spot, shut the door on everything and everyone. > Maybe do something *easy* like throw on some music and eat ice cream, > drive out to a nearby part and take a walk, go shopping...... :) I had a fairly decent night's sleep which helped, and I kicked the cat out of my room after he decided being fed at 5am wasn't enough, he wanted to play;) ANd I've had a brilliant costume day today:) I'm entering a Cosplay/fantasy contest tomorrow and am going as Galadriel. But not just any Galadriel, oh no. I decided to go for Galadriel under the influence of the ring. With that breatplate thing. And weird colouring and tattered costume. Oh yes. I had been fighting with the silver paint not liking the fimo scuplts for the brooch and bits. Then my ear molds broke. And nothing worked. But today I made geletin ears and they are so nifty:) And I got the paint to stay on at least well enough for one day;) And my old breastplate is better than the new one (well marginally;) ) so.... Oh and I bashed and stomped on the under dress and cloak in the middle of our road. I think the neighbours were amused;) > Hang in there, you're going great guns! > Heather L Thanks:) It really means so much when other people appreciate all the effort that goes into costuming:) Oh:) I found a brilliant orange full wool blanket to make into a winter coat, so my tangerine orange wool stash will now become something historical:) I'm in the mood after all this movie stuff:) regards, michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 14:45:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CIjpqa024245 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:45:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CHvgcf023027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:57:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CHveiY013443; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:57:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CHvciY013432 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.183] (pm5-183.eos.net [205.133.149.183]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15224 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:57:36 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:53:12 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304110008.h3B0860W015138@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to join the chorus on this one. I buy clothes for my husband and my children at Old Navy, which constantly advertises itself as a store for the whole family. But although I am not a large size (I wear a 10P in pants), every woman's thing in that store is cut for a junior size. Flat everywhere! And all the women's pants are those low-rise pants, which IMHO don't look good on anyone who isn't a Hollywood actress. Because I am frequently at the store, I've found a few t-shirts for myself over the last months, but that's all. But that isn't my biggest complaint! I buy men's, girl's, and boy's clothes there, as well as infant clothes for gifts. The woman's stuff seems to be made to a whole different standard. On most things the fabrics are awful and so is the construction. It makes no sense to me. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 14:56:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CIu2qa024353 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:56:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CGaPcf018352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:36:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CGaN2B011991; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:36:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CGaK2B011911 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:36:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003041216361400100ohmhse>; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:36:14 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 09:34:13 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) In-Reply-To: <004201c300eb$19323060$bec3adcb@michaela> References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm entering a Cosplay/fantasy contest tomorrow and am going as Galadriel. >But not just any Galadriel, oh no. I decided to go for Galadriel under the >influence of the ring. With that breatplate thing. And weird colouring and >tattered costume. Oh yes. Now that is brilliant >Oh:) I found a brilliant orange full wool blanket to make into a winter >coat, so my tangerine orange wool stash will now become something >historical:) I'm in the mood after all this movie stuff:) I love tangerine, what period can you use it for? Maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 17:56:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CLuWqa009425 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:56:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CLrPcf008018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CLrLgG017142; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (netmail01.services.quay.plus.net [212.159.14.219]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3CLrHgG016968 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14256 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2003 21:53:11 -0000 Received: from 196.nas10.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO h1f0g4) (212.159.49.196) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2003 21:53:11 -0000 Message-ID: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> From: "Sally Ann Chandler" To: Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:03:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Running Away! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3CLuWqa009425 Status: RO I've been on this list so many years I can't remember the details I put in when I started. Can anyone tell me how to get off please? Thanks, Sally Ann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 18:00:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CM04qa009430 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:00:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CLx7cf008482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CLx6C1019692; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CLx4C2019670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h3CLx4ur019667 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:59:04 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Running Away! Message-ID: <20030412215904.GC9995@net.indra.com> References: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, Apr 12, 2003 at 11:03:40PM +0100, Sally Ann Chandler wrote: > I've been on this list so many years I can't remember the details I put in when I started. Can anyone tell me how to get off please? Thanks, If you go to the web site listed at the bottom of each list message: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume you can access all admin functions. Go to the very last box on the bottom, where it says "To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe), enter your subscription email address:" Enter your email address, and hit 'edit options'. You will then see a new page which shows you your personal configurations, and allows you to unsubscribe, change to or from digest, set yourself 'no mail', and other options. You must enter your password for these to take effect, so there's a box at the top to have the password mailed to you if you need it. If you want to sub or unsub, you can also send email to h-costume-request@indra.com with the subject line of 'subscribe' or 'unsubscribe'. ...eliz -- You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 18:02:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CM2iqa009437 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:02:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CM1jcf008665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CM1iC1020622; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:01:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CM1gC1020612 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4927AB7C for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 92431-01 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-13.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.13]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63A57AB74 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:01:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Running Away! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> Message-Id: <53164313-6D32-11D7-BCE4-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO go to the link at the bottom of the email. On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 03:03 PM, Sally Ann Chandler wrote: > I've been on this list so many years I can't remember the details I > put in when I started. Can anyone tell me how to get off please? > Thanks, > > Sally Ann > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 18:18:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CMIhqa009454 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:18:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CMHfcf009685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:17:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CMHfC1026105; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (murphys.services.quay.plus.net [212.159.14.225]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3CMHaC1026060 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2548 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2003 22:17:18 -0000 Received: from 196.nas10.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO h1f0g4) (212.159.49.196) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2003 22:17:18 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c30142$c6dc46e0$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> From: "Sally Ann Chandler" To: "Historical Costume" References: <53164313-6D32-11D7-BCE4-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Running Away! Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:27:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've done that but I can't remember my password etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Running Away! > go to the link at the bottom of the email. > > > On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 03:03 PM, Sally Ann Chandler wrote: > > > I've been on this list so many years I can't remember the details I > > put in when I started. Can anyone tell me how to get off please? > > Thanks, > > > > Sally Ann > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 18:54:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CMsKqa009593 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CMrKcf011600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:53:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CMrJC1009095; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3CMrEC1008995 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p203-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.203] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194Trx-00086k-00; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:53:09 +1200 Message-ID: <003101c30146$48e39a00$cbc0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:53:06 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm entering a Cosplay/fantasy contest tomorrow and am going as Galadriel. > >But not just any Galadriel, oh no. I decided to go for Galadriel under the > >influence of the ring. With that breatplate thing. And weird colouring and > >tattered costume. Oh yes. > > Now that is brilliant Thanks:) I am registered, and I think they got the images so I don't need to hand them in before 12 midday.. so I'll hopefully be able to turn up at 2.30 for the 3.30 start. That way I know my ears will last;) > >Oh:) I found a brilliant orange full wool blanket to make into a winter > >coat, so my tangerine orange wool stash will now become something > >historical:) I'm in the mood after all this movie stuff:) > I love tangerine, what period can you use it for? German ren of course;) It's not a brilliant jewel tone, but one of those rich heavy colours. Which is good as it suits the fabric:) I'm thinking circular skirt with trumpet sleeves and black velvet guarding... not sure if it will be open and laced or closed... but this time I'm going to bead the heck out of the guards;) As the fabric isn't patterned, whereas my first german cossie was (beading would have been too fussy). right... 3 hours to get ready... I'm so nervous.. I'm going to have to give the "Instead of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the dawn, trecherous as the sea, stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair" speech. I'll probably mumble over the "beautiful reference;) But no.. i'll be in character.. I have to *believe* ;) hehheheeh michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 12 21:54:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D1s7qa009904 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 21:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D1r3cf024425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D1qxnt023857; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D1qunt023837 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146A41F982 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 21:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.20]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HD9EEO00.3BN for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 20:49:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3E98D18D.5080507@grics.net> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 21:55:09 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela><00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan><001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> <004201c300eb$19323060$bec3adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <004201c300eb$19323060$bec3adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cool! One day like that is worth putting up with a bad one or 2 IMHO :-) michaela wrote: >>You know what? I've found that sometimes that is exactly what I need to >>do when things pile up: go hide! If you can steal some time, even a few >>minutes, find a quiet spot, shut the door on everything and everyone. >>Maybe do something *easy* like throw on some music and eat ice cream, >>drive out to a nearby part and take a walk, go shopping...... >> >> > >:) I had a fairly decent night's sleep which helped, and I kicked the cat >out of my room after he decided being fed at 5am wasn't enough, he wanted to >play;) > >ANd I've had a brilliant costume day today:) > >I'm entering a Cosplay/fantasy contest tomorrow and am going as Galadriel. >But not just any Galadriel, oh no. I decided to go for Galadriel under the >influence of the ring. With that breatplate thing. And weird colouring and >tattered costume. Oh yes. > >I had been fighting with the silver paint not liking the fimo scuplts for >the brooch and bits. Then my ear molds broke. And nothing worked. But today >I made geletin ears and they are so nifty:) And I got the paint to stay on >at least well enough for one day;) And my old breastplate is better than the >new one (well marginally;) ) so.... > >Oh and I bashed and stomped on the under dress and cloak in the middle of >our road. I think the neighbours were amused;) > > > >>Hang in there, you're going great guns! >>Heather L >> >> > >Thanks:) It really means so much when other people appreciate all the effort >that goes into costuming:) > >Oh:) I found a brilliant orange full wool blanket to make into a winter >coat, so my tangerine orange wool stash will now become something >historical:) I'm in the mood after all this movie stuff:) > >regards, >michaela >http://www.glittersweet.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 01:09:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D59Kqa010153 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D58Jcf008677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D58BDf011842; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:08:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D588Df011805 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:08:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20030413050802002006uo2ae>; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 05:08:03 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030412220504.00a7a570@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:05:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] My new site:) In-Reply-To: <003101c30146$48e39a00$cbc0adcb@michaela> References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:53 AM 4/13/2003 +1200, you wrote: >I'll probably mumble over the "beautiful reference;) But no.. i'll be in >character.. I have to *believe* but I saw your web site, if that is you, you are beautiful. why are you mumbling? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 03:49:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7nYqa010327 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 03:49:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7lPcf016574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7lNEf003768; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.176] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7lLEf003740 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD900F4CUYV6Q@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:34:17 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413002144.00af5fb0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/11/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304110008.h3B0860W015138@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:53 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: >The woman's stuff seems to be >made to a whole different standard. On most things the fabrics are awful and >so is the construction. It makes no sense to me. I got so fed up with the bad sizing and bad materials and the bad construction of women's clothing, that I no longer buy my regular clothes from any department store. I buy underwear but only because it is cheaper. I am tired of having to fit someone else's standards, and the cheap quality that fall apart within months. They know we buy lots of clothes and have all sorts of stuff going to waste in our closets while we shop for more. No wonder it doesn't last, it doesn't have to anymore. I notice they even are advertising for this mentality. WalMart with their young girls that love to shop because you can buy more for your money. Well girls, you get what you pay for. Until they finally size women by our actual size, and not some made up number, I will make my own custom clothes for me. Unlike our male counterparts who can buy their pants by their actual waist size, or shirts by their neck size, which sometimes has no correlation to their other parts, but at least it fits one part of the body. Bah, I so dislike not fitting into anything anymore, not even my old blue 1560s style nobles from six years ago. Sorry, just getting bitter in my middle age. At least my new costume will fit. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 03:49:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7nYqa010328 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 03:49:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7lncf016613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7lnEf003905; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.176] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3D7lLEh003740 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 01:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HD900F4CUYV6Q@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:41:37 -0700 From: Kimiko Small X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413003421.02c66860@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/11/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Appliques on surcoat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just had to share. I finally started the appliques on my surcoat today. The material finally chosen is a dark blue/black wool, with the appliques in dark blue cotton velveteen. Used "Seam a Seam 2" on the applique pieces to hold them in place, and after many trial runs on the machine to overlay a couple of cords for a period look, decided to give up and ran a narrow satin stitch in gold thread instead. The wool drapes nicely, which I want for the back side, but the front is going to have to be a little stiffer to show the design better. Any suggestions on what would stiffen the wool material without using no-sew interfacing? If I had more time I would have hand couched the applique edges instead. I guess that will have to wait for another garment when I have the time to do it properly. I have to do three costumes by the last weekend of this month, and with a baby boy to play with half the waking day, I gotta speed things in other areas. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 06:11:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DABYqa018456 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 06:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DAARcf023601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 04:10:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DAAPSI019073; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 04:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DAAMSI019033 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 04:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p704-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.196] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194eRH-0002VU-00; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:10:20 +1200 Message-ID: <002c01c301a4$e29ed430$c4c2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412220504.00a7a570@mail.attbi.com> Subject: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:10:17 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I'll probably mumble over the "beautiful reference;) But no.. i'll be in > >character.. I have to *believe* > but I saw your web site, if that is you, you are beautiful. why are you > mumbling? lol! Very selective photo choosing actually;) As I had to do today with the photos of Galadriel;) http://www.glittersweet.com/costumes/galadriel.htm I'm a fussy subject;) Wow. What a blast. I was hte only non-anime costume btw;) So I figured there was no way I could win as the judges were all anime fans. but they did say it was open to more than just anime... next time it shall be Satine from Moulin Rouge;) michaela http://www.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 10:00:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DE0jqa018848 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DDxacf010952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DDxYKB017594; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:59:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3DDxVKB017560 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:59:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030413135926.88154.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:59:26 BST Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:59:26 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002c01c301a4$e29ed430$c4c2adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO CONGRATULATIONS! The costume looks great, and I find it extra-fantastic because I coveted this costume and thought 'no way I don't have the faintest clue how to make the breast plate without having to go and have it made by our weaponsmith'. And there it is, you did it! Super, and congrats again, so which costume are you going to make with the cash prize you won? *G* Nicole > lol! Very selective photo choosing actually;) As I had to do today with the > photos of Galadriel;) > http://www.glittersweet.com/costumes/galadriel.htm > > I'm a fussy subject;) > > Wow. What a blast. I was hte only non-anime costume btw;) So I figured there > was no way I could win as the judges were all anime fans. but they did say > it was open to more than just anime... next time it shall be Satine from > Moulin Rouge;) > > michaela > http://www.glittersweet.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 11:21:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFLkqa019198 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:21:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFKhcf015776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFKfG9014699; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFKeG9014682 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 194jHb-0001kV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:20:39 -0700 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Appliques on surcoat Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:20:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c301d0$3e1ed820$6401a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413003421.02c66860@127.0.0.1> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3DFKeG9014682 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, are you just stiffening the front to do the appliqué? I mean would it work to remove a stabilizer after you were done doing the appliqué because of course there are many different kinds of removable stabilizers. Or do you need to leave the stiffening in? Some lightweight fusibles would probably work provided the edges were eventually incorporated into a seam (sort of a 'cheater' way to get sewn in interfacing without the hassle). Could you explain a little more why you need the stiffening? Sounds very interesting-I would love to see pictures! Sg "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Kimiko Small ~Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:42 AM ~To: h-costume@indra.com ~Subject: [h-cost] Appliques on surcoat ~ ~I just had to share. I finally started the appliques on my surcoat today. ~The material finally chosen is a dark blue/black wool, with the appliques ~in dark blue cotton velveteen. ~ ~Used "Seam a Seam 2" on the applique pieces to hold them in place, and ~after many trial runs on the machine to overlay a couple of cords for a ~period look, decided to give up and ran a narrow satin stitch in gold ~thread instead. The wool drapes nicely, which I want for the back side, but ~the front is going to have to be a little stiffer to show the design ~better. Any suggestions on what would stiffen the wool material without ~using no-sew interfacing? ~ ~If I had more time I would have hand couched the applique edges instead. I ~guess that will have to wait for another garment when I have the time to do ~it properly. I have to do three costumes by the last weekend of this month, ~and with a baby boy to play with half the waking day, I gotta speed things ~in other areas. ~ ~Kimiko ~ ~ ~Kimiko Small ~Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother ~kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com ~ ~Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery ~http://www.costumegallery.com ~ ~_______________________________________________ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 11:41:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFfOqa019611 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFePcf017221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFeMG9022918; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFeJGB022869 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDA007M6GV5EX@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:36:18 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) In-reply-to: <002c01c301a4$e29ed430$c4c2adcb@michaela> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413083546.02c7feb8@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/11/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412220504.00a7a570@mail.attbi.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:10 PM 4/13/2003 +1200, you wrote: >As I had to do today with the >photos of Galadriel;) >http://www.glittersweet.com/costumes/galadriel.htm Hi Michaela, Wow, that costume is just stunning! Congratulations on winning the cosplay. I never thought humble felt could look so good as armor. And the rest is wonderful too, even with all the problems you faced. So, what is a cosplay exactly? I have not heard the term before. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 11:41:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFfZqa019614 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:41:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFebcf017255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFebG9023024; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DFeJG9022869 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDA007M6GV5EX@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:29:46 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Appliques on surcoat In-reply-to: <001101c301d0$3e1ed820$6401a8c0@mycomputer> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413082520.00af5fb0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/11/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413003421.02c66860@127.0.0.1> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3DFeJG9022869 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya, At 08:20 AM 4/13/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Kimiko, are you just stiffening the front to do the appliqué? I mean >would it work to remove a stabilizer after you were done doing the >appliqué because of course there are many different kinds of removable >stabilizers. Or do you need to leave the stiffening in? Some >lightweight fusibles would probably work provided the edges were >eventually incorporated into a seam (sort of a 'cheater' way to get sewn >in interfacing without the hassle). > >Could you explain a little more why you need the stiffening? I need the front to remain flatter so it won't drape so much and bend the appliques, so it will be nicer to look at. It needs to remain in place after the appliques are being sewn on. I am using a tear away stabilizer for the appliques, but that is too flimsy to remain. >Sounds very interesting-I would love to see pictures! I am taking digital pics through the whole process so I can upload to my website. I will let you guys know when that is done. This is actually a fun thing to do for me, doing appliques I mean. I haven't done them on a costume before. Hmmm... maybe I should start one of those costume diaries to show the thought process? I have never done one of those either before. Is there anything in particular one should put on a costume diary? >Sg Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 12:52:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DGqKqa019808 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DGpEcf022581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DGpAWC026443; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DGp7WC026296 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:51:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DCAA7AB81 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 09425-06 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-103-102.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.102]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CF57AB6D for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:50:42 -0700 Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <002c01c301a4$e29ed430$c4c2adcb@michaela> Message-Id: <100DE992-6DD0-11D7-AF78-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO wow. that was just a fantastic costume, michaela! I am in AWE. On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 03:10 AM, michaela wrote: >>> I'll probably mumble over the "beautiful reference;) But no.. i'll >>> be in >>> character.. I have to *believe* >> but I saw your web site, if that is you, you are beautiful. why are >> you >> mumbling? > > lol! Very selective photo choosing actually;) As I had to do today > with the > photos of Galadriel;) > http://www.glittersweet.com/costumes/galadriel.htm > > I'm a fussy subject;) > > Wow. What a blast. I was hte only non-anime costume btw;) So I figured > there > was no way I could win as the judges were all anime fans. but they did > say > it was open to more than just anime... next time it shall be Satine > from > Moulin Rouge;) > > michaela > http://www.glittersweet.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 13:05:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DH5Eqa019844 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:05:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DH46cf023756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:04:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DH44Xw001863; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DH41Xw001732 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9026C7AA49 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 09754-01 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-103-102.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.102]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA4F7AA48 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:03:36 -0700 Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030413135926.88154.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicole, there are some really great tips on making armor-looks for the stage in the Costume Technicians' Handbook. You should check it out! On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 06:59 AM, N Kipar wrote: > CONGRATULATIONS! The costume looks great, and I find it > extra-fantastic because > I coveted this costume and thought 'no way I don't have the faintest > clue how > to make the breast plate without having to go and have it made by our > weaponsmith'. And there it is, you did it! > > Super, and congrats again, so which costume are you going to make with > the cash > prize you won? *G* > > Nicole > > >> lol! Very selective photo choosing actually;) As I had to do today >> with the >> photos of Galadriel;) >> http://www.glittersweet.com/costumes/galadriel.htm >> >> I'm a fussy subject;) >> >> Wow. What a blast. I was hte only non-anime costume btw;) So I >> figured there >> was no way I could win as the judges were all anime fans. but they >> did say >> it was open to more than just anime... next time it shall be Satine >> from >> Moulin Rouge;) >> >> michaela >> http://www.glittersweet.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > "Brains, not Bombs" > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 13:32:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHW6qa019887 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:32:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHV1cf025641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHV0Xw011808; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.ptr.worldaxxs.net [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHUwXw011772 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:30:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3DHQbkx002366 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:26:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413131154.06fd2300@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:30:37 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small writes: >I got so fed up with the bad sizing and bad materials and the bad >construction of women's clothing, that I no longer buy my regular clothes >from any department store. I buy underwear but only because it is cheaper. >I am tired of having to fit someone else's standards, and the cheap >quality that fall apart within months. I find that it helps to invest more in fewer pieces, and to know the lines of one or two designers that tend to fit closer to your body type. (For me, it was Elisabeth petites when I was in Women's sizes, and I've loved the fit *for me* in Jones New York, both in their Misses'/Misses' Petites and Women's Petites. When I was just out of college, Evan Piccone was another line that fit well, but I couldn't begin to afford it then...) I've had Jones pieces and Elisabeth pieces that I've worn day-in, day-out for years... >Until they finally size women by our actual size, and not some made up >number, I will make my own custom clothes for me. I should certainly like to see blouses and dresses sized by bra-size-plus-figure-type... Hmm. Maybe when we get automated cutting down to something cost-effective to do on an individual basis, we could walk into a shop, plug in our measurements (or have them scanned), pick out style and fabric from sample books, plunk down some money, have a nice lunch, and then our custom-fitted, custom-made new clothes will be ready for us to take home... I suspect the technology is about 80% there, and the price should be reasonable for "investment dressing" ($600-1000 per ladies' suit) within 5-10 years, and down to $250 for a woman's suit within no more than 20 years... >Unlike our male counterparts who can buy their pants by their actual waist >size, or shirts by their neck size, which sometimes has no correlation to >their other parts, but at least it fits one part of the body. You do NOT want to hear me rail out about men's clothing sizes. My other half is a BBW and constantly has to buy pants two sizes too large in the waist so they'll fit him at the hips and thigh. He can't find a properly fitting shirt because even the "big" cut shirts that fit him across the chest and stomach are gapingly wide at the neck. If a suit jacket fits him moderately ok (i.e., it can be altered to fit), the pants don't. AND this is in the shops that actually *have* specialty sizes. Worse yet, while BBWs ave specialty stores like Lane Bryant, The Avenue, Catherine's, and August Max Woman, AND Women's Departments in most major department stores, men only have Casual Male Big & Tall (they bought out Repp and discontinued all their good stuff), Rochester Big & Tall (for the *very* well-heeled only: their shirts start at $100... For "super-sized" (over size 60) men, it gets even worse: only King Size and Repp mail order, and a very limited number of individual specialty shops (those which do custom work) sell clothes with any inkling of a possibility of fit. (One of our friends is about 6'4" and well over 400 lb.; the few garments he owns have to be custom-tailored.) At least LB and Avenue usually go up to a size 32... BTW, I never knew how limited big men's options were until Frank and I started getting serious... so if there are no BBM's in your life, I can understand not knowing how much more limited their options are than ours. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 13:40:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHejqa019903 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:40:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHdkcf026161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHdkXw014829; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3DHdhXw014801 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030413173937.43005.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:39:37 BST Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:39:37 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Heather Meadows wrote: > Nicole, there are some really great tips on making armor-looks > for the stage in the Costume Technicians' Handbook. You should > check it out! Doh! *slaps forehead* Thanks Heather, I actually have that book. I just have too many! I keep forgettiong what I actually have and what is worth looking at. Silly. Currently I am working on a black and gold Byzantine-style Sci-Fi Empress for a Sci-Fi party. Empress K'hay-Thora from the planet of D'hay-lar is coming along nicely *G* Nicole - senile, obviously! ;-) ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 13:43:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHhWqa019908 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHgWcf026309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:42:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHgWXw015734; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3DHgVXw015678 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:42:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030413174225.7438.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:42:25 BST Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:42:25 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413131154.06fd2300@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Brenda wrote: > My other > half is a BBW What the doodah are BBW's??? Enquiring minds want to know :-) Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 13:54:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHsaqa019936 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:54:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHrXcf026959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:53:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHrWXw019732; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DHrTXw019591 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:53:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.cb.31ec891c (4380) for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:53:17 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:53:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/13/03 1:43:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > What the doodah are BBW's??? > > Enquiring minds want to know :-) Could be wrong, but...Big Beautiful Woman? That's the only definition I've seen for the abbreviation. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 14:03:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DI38qa019959 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:03:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DI27cf027510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DI26DL023251; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DI24DL023220 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003041318015905100ncq58e>; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:01:59 +0000 Message-ID: <002601c301e6$c4a8ab80$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413131154.06fd2300@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:01:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What drives me crazy about the limited sizing is that stores like J. Crew will carry a men's size up to chest 50", but women's sizes only up to bust 41". While all of us who are well-endowed, men and women, have problems finding clothes that fit, I STILL don't understand why it's okay to carry larger men's sizes than women's. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 15:53:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DJrMqa020330 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:53:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DJqKcf005343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DJqIA5004864; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:52:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DJqGA5004849 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D567AA0C for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 11350-07 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-103-102.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.103.102]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE527A9B0 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:23:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <002601c301e6$c4a8ab80$befc8218@hopperflop2> Message-Id: <70112E8F-6DE5-11D7-AF78-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO However, that's what they claim. They use enough ease in the women's designs that I wear them comfortably, sometimes even wearing a L instead of an XL. and I'm a bust size 47"... .heather. On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 11:01 AM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > What drives me crazy about the limited sizing is that stores like J. > Crew > will carry a men's size up to chest 50", but women's sizes only up to > bust > 41". While all of us who are well-endowed, men and women, have > problems > finding clothes that fit, I STILL don't understand why it's okay to > carry > larger men's sizes than women's. > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 18:10:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMA7qa020772 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:10:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DM91cf013581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DM8viZ024343; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DM8siZ024297 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f15.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.21]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BBFBA262946 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:08:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c30209$a3a77dd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:11:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello! I am sorry i teased you all, last week before i went to England, my frontpage teased me. But here is a little preview of my first visit dressed in costume ever: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/readytogo.html I have just come home from Bath, and it was absolutely lovely, my first time, but not the last. It is midnight here in Copenhagen, and i must go to work early tomorrow, so i promise to make you all a lovely webpage with lots of pictures of the event. Many Greetings the little danish gentleman Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 18:16:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMG1qa020788 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:16:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMEscf013899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMEsiZ026330; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMEpiZ026290 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m218.in-tch.com [216.166.191.218]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3DLv0903459 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E99E1A1.F8130014@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:16:01 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy References: <20030413174225.7438.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Big Beautiful Woman." AFAIK, a term popularized by a magazine of the same name that I haven't seen in years. A fashion magazine aimed at the plus-sized market, with the ethos that larger-than-size 12 people are not only vital, active, dressy, sexy people, but are also worth loving. --sue N Kipar wrote: > > --- Brenda wrote: > > > My other > > half is a BBW > > What the doodah are BBW's??? > > Enquiring minds want to know :-) > > Nicole > > ===== > "Brains, not Bombs" > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 18:17:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMHFqa020792 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:17:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMG4cf013972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMG4iZ026823; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMG2iZ026781 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:16:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m218.in-tch.com [216.166.191.218]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3DLwC903741 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E99E1E9.BE7F7BEE@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:17:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413131154.06fd2300@mail.earthlink.net> <002601c301e6$c4a8ab80$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Because it's still more okay to be a larger man that it is to be a larger woman.... --sue Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > What drives me crazy about the limited sizing is that stores like J. Crew > will carry a men's size up to chest 50", but women's sizes only up to bust > 41". While all of us who are well-endowed, men and women, have problems > finding clothes that fit, I STILL don't understand why it's okay to carry > larger men's sizes than women's. > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 18:21:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMLsqa020799 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:21:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMKucf014216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DMKtiZ028434; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3DMKqiZ028378 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWv3XUQQd6s2ObMSygRMOKQycG4hk/Cw87g==">; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:20:32 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HVN8WDEZ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:20:32 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:19:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath Message-ID: <20030413.171951.-76785.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How very handsome you are. I am dying to see the rest of the photos. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 19:47:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DNlLqa020955 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:47:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DNkIcf018765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DNkGe0027173; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3DNkFe0027166 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-003scfairp0106.dialsprint.net ([63.184.208.106] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 194rAs-0005Ds-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:46:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3E9A04BD.C212F45A@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:45:48 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath References: <000701c30209$a3a77dd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Scrumptious!! Did everyone ooh and aah over you as you deserve? I'm sure no one there was as well-dressed as you, though of course we're all interested to see pictures of the rest of the ball. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 20:15:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0Ffqa020984 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0Eccf020776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0EbOB007583; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0EYOB007517 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a72.directcon.net [207.215.72.72]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3E0L2301825; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:21:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030413171650.00cc1220@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:16:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: <3E99E1A1.F8130014@in-tch.com> References: <20030413174225.7438.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Arrgh! I'm working on my dress for the Friday Night social at Costume Con. I have now ripped the zipper out and replaced it 7 times. I'm sewing it onto two layers of duck with stretch velvet over them, and it looks awful. Now I'm going to try hand prickstitching it, and hope I can make it strong enough. Sheesh. Why did they ever invent these things? Give me lacing anytime. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 20:34:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0YFqa021022 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:34:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0XBcf021866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0XAOB014235; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:33:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0X7OB014182 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1a9.131a20a8 (4380) for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:32:58 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1a9.131a20a8.2bcb5bba@aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:32:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/13/03 8:15:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > Arrgh! I'm working on my dress for the Friday Night social at Costume Con. > I have now ripped the zipper out and replaced it 7 times. I'm sewing it > onto two layers of duck with stretch velvet over them, and it looks awful. > Now I'm going to try hand prickstitching it, and hope I can make it strong > enough. > > Sheesh. Why did they ever invent these things? Give me lacing anytime. Take a deep breath, Margo, then beat the zipper with a rubber mallet...but only if the zipper is made of metal! And just remember...it's okay to be less than entirely historically accurate. The Social, fun as it sounds, isn't a competition. ;-) Christine Who hasn't even STARTED her social dress, since the darned company said it wouldn't arrive until TUESDAY! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 20:42:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0g4qa021037 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:42:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0f0cf022253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0exOB016880; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0etOB016849 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.164]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h3E0tGM10666 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:55:17 +1000 Message-ID: <006901c3021f$197a6800$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030413174225.7438.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20030413171650.00cc1220@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:44:59 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why not lace anyway? Lacing always looks good with velvet, or are you going for a particular style that has to have a zip? Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > > > Arrgh! I'm working on my dress for the Friday Night social at Costume Con. > I have now ripped the zipper out and replaced it 7 times. I'm sewing it > onto two layers of duck with stretch velvet over them, and it looks awful. > Now I'm going to try hand prickstitching it, and hope I can make it strong > enough. > > Sheesh. Why did they ever invent these things? Give me lacing anytime. > > > > Margo > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 20:53:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0r3qa021056 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0pmcf022905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0plOB020646; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:51:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.ptr.worldaxxs.net [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0pROB020490 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3E0l34C009703 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:47:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413204757.00ada450@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:51:06 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: BBW/BBM (WAS: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christine responds to Nicole: > > What the doodah are BBW's??? > >Could be wrong, but...Big Beautiful Woman? That's the only definition I've >seen for the abbreviation. Exactly so. It refers to a woman US size 14 or larger. BBM -- Big, Beautiful Man -- is the male counterpart, and refers to men over (in US sizes) a 44 or 46 chest (suit jacket), 42 waist, and I think it's either a 16 shirt or a 17-1/2 shirt. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 20:55:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0tqqa021067 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:55:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0slcf023095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0skOB022034; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0qGOB020827 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-005-246.jps.net ([216.119.5.246] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 194sCl-0004x7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:52:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c30221$bc2abe40$f60577d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030413174225.7438.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20030413171650.00cc1220@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:03:58 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Margo, I'm a major fan of hand sewing including the attachment of zippers, and even when I sew things by machine, hand basting is often my first step, especially with velvet. It is the little extra steps that make the difference in a quality garment. Good luck!! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: "Historical Costume" ; "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 5:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... > > > Arrgh! I'm working on my dress for the Friday Night social at Costume Con. > I have now ripped the zipper out and replaced it 7 times. I'm sewing it > onto two layers of duck with stretch velvet over them, and it looks awful. > Now I'm going to try hand prickstitching it, and hope I can make it strong > enough. > > Sheesh. Why did they ever invent these things? Give me lacing anytime. > > > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 20:58:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0wtqa021112 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:58:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0vYcf023295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:57:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0vXfI023126; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:57:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E0sPOB021905 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A022778F for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.20]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HDB6D300.AG7 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:51:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3E9A1555.2000203@grics.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:56:37 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412220504.00a7a570@mail.attbi.com> <002c01c301a4$e29ed430$c4c2adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <002c01c301a4$e29ed430$c4c2adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO WOW!!!! And you have such a perfect little delicate face for doing such elventhings.... Heather L sorta missing being 25 and 125..... michaela wrote: >>>I'll probably mumble over the "beautiful reference;) But no.. i'll be in >>>character.. I have to *believe* >>> >>> >>but I saw your web site, if that is you, you are beautiful. why are you >>mumbling? >> >> > >lol! Very selective photo choosing actually;) As I had to do today with the >photos of Galadriel;) >http://www.glittersweet.com/costumes/galadriel.htm > >I'm a fussy subject;) > >Wow. What a blast. I was hte only non-anime costume btw;) So I figured there >was no way I could win as the judges were all anime fans. but they did say >it was open to more than just anime... next time it shall be Satine from >Moulin Rouge;) > >michaela >http://www.glittersweet.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 21:05:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E152qa021123 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:05:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E13icf023726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E13gfI025345; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3E13dfI025325 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-67-121-121-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.121.121.160 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2003 01:03:38 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c30221$3d3a8ed0$a0797943@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c30209$a3a77dd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:00:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, there are not words. Not in Danish or English for how beautiful the famous suit looks on you, nor for how you consistently amaze us all with your talents. Wow cubed. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath > Hello! > I am sorry i teased you all, last week before i went to England, my > frontpage teased me. > But here is a little preview of my first visit dressed in costume ever: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/readytogo.html > I have just come home from Bath, and it was absolutely lovely, my first > time, but not the last. > It is midnight here in Copenhagen, and i must go to work early tomorrow, so > i promise to make you all a lovely webpage with lots of pictures of the > event. > > Many Greetings > > the little danish gentleman > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 22:10:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2ATqa021241 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:10:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E27Xcf029159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:07:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E27SoJ019924; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E27OoJ019891 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:07:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p246-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.246] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194tNQ-0003E2-00; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:07:21 +1200 Message-ID: <005e01c3022a$93b599e0$f6c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com><013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9><200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com><002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela><00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan><001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net><5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com><5.1.0.14.2.20030412220504.00a7a570@mail.attbi.com><002c01c301a4$e29ed430$c4c2adcb@michaela> <3E9A1555.2000203@grics.net> Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:07:17 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > WOW!!!! And you have such a perfect little delicate face for doing such > elventhings.... Thank you, actually I was just moaning about having a teeny nose;) I have been resisting doing an elven costume as they are just so popular, and I like things not quite so. But this costume was perfect. It wasn't pretty, but was all about past glories. michaela http://glittersweet.com 27 and 140;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 22:13:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2D2qa021247 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:13:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2Btcf029386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2BtoJ021401; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2BqoJ021370 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:11:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p246-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.246] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194tRl-0000tC-00; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:11:49 +1200 Message-ID: <005f01c3022b$35e3d9c0$f6c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <100DE992-6DD0-11D7-AF78-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:11:49 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > wow. that was just a fantastic costume, michaela! I am in AWE. Thank you:) I was about ready to throw it out two days before the competition and even the day of it I was upset with it. You should see my duct tape double;) She is unrecognisable as me;) She has had a great deal of .. augmentation;) I think I'll reuse the breastplate for a Magrat costume, where she faces the Elf Queen in Ynci the Short-Tempered's armour;) michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 22:16:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2GGqa021257 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2FBcf029578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2FAoJ022649; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2F6oJ022619 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p246-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.246] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194tUu-0001ul-00; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:15:05 +1200 Message-ID: <006001c3022b$aa4e18c0$f6c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f1.6072d28.2bc2e916@aol.com> <013c01c2fd42$49026dc0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> <200304072235.14540.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002701c2ffd8$ee2a8ce0$5ac3adcb@michaela> <00ee01c30010$2dc9c320$18a231d2@valadan> <001801c30021$0e88c130$a3d1adcb@michaela> <3E97C106.1060901@grics.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412093235.00a08e00@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030412220504.00a7a570@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030413083546.02c7feb8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:15:05 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Wow, that costume is just stunning! Congratulations on winning the cosplay. > I never thought humble felt could look so good as armor. And the rest is > wonderful too, even with all the problems you faced. Thank you:) I wouldn't say it was all worth it... but I'm glad I didn't give up:) > So, what is a cosplay exactly? I have not heard the term before. It's a contraction of costumed play.. much like pokemon is a contraction of pocket monsters;) It's probably a good term for the kind of costuming you get at conventions.. as in you dress up as a character rather than create something of your own. It's usually used for recreation and wearing of Anime characters, as the term originated in japan, and so when it was adopted in the west it has those connotations. But it's really much broader than that. michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 22:18:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2Ijqa021261 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:18:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2Hecf029734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2HeoJ023361; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E2HKoJ023271 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p246-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.246] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 194tX4-000751-00; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:17:18 +1200 Message-ID: <006101c3022b$f9eeec60$f6c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030413135926.88154.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: I won!!! Re: [h-cost] My new site:) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:17:18 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > CONGRATULATIONS! The costume looks great, and I find it extra-fantastic because > I coveted this costume and thought 'no way I don't have the faintest clue how > to make the breast plate without having to go and have it made by our > weaponsmith'. And there it is, you did it! hehe, well I supsect the original was actually cast whatsit like much of the costumes, not metal at all anyway;) But I had coveted this costume too from when I saw it on screen, but as it appeared so briefly I thought.. it's not really possible. That is until a site (no longer available) hosted three images of the costume on a stand in. And I thought... oooohhhhh. And I was very restrained and didn't mention it *anywhere* until 12 hours before the comp;) michaela http://glittersweet.com/ > Super, and congrats again, so which costume are you going to make with the cash > prize you won? *G* > > Nicole > > > > lol! Very selective photo choosing actually;) As I had to do today with the > > photos of Galadriel;) > > http://www.glittersweet.com/costumes/galadriel.htm > > > > I'm a fussy subject;) > > > > Wow. What a blast. I was hte only non-anime costume btw;) So I figured there > > was no way I could win as the judges were all anime fans. but they did say > > it was open to more than just anime... next time it shall be Satine from > > Moulin Rouge;) > > > > michaela > > http://www.glittersweet.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > "Brains, not Bombs" > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 13 23:36:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E3a7qa021454 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:36:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E3Z3cf005447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E3Z155026366; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E3Yw56026310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13235 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2003 03:34:53 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?65.24.125.20?) (65.24.125.20) by mail.donet.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2003 03:34:53 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:30:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath From: Marsha Hamilton To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000701c30209$a3a77dd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rest up, Danish Gentleman, after your long journey...then post lots and lots of pictures! You looked fabulous. Marsha -------- >... It is midnight here in Copenhagen, and i must go to work early tomorrow, so > i promise to make you all a lovely webpage with lots of pictures of the > event. > > the little danish gentleman > > Leif og Bjarne Drews _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 00:09:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E49wqa021540 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:09:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E48vcf007321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E48uUO009314; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E48rUO009285 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-17-179.o1.jps.net ([216.119.17.179] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 194vH1-0006EH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:08:52 -0700 Message-ID: <001801c3023d$367b0b80$b31177d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c30209$a3a77dd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:20:39 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julia might be interested in focusing on your work Bjarne. There should be "designers" of historical costuming too that vintage clothing magazines write about, known like we know top designers like Versace or Lacoix. I could see an article about your background, inspiration and work! Lisa P.S. Doesn't it seem strange to everyone that Donnatella Vessace manages to escape disparaging remarks from the press about her looks even though she looks like a tanned cow. Actually, I think it's nice, but such standards should apply to everyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath > Hello! > I am sorry i teased you all, last week before i went to England, my > frontpage teased me. > But here is a little preview of my first visit dressed in costume ever: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/readytogo.html > I have just come home from Bath, and it was absolutely lovely, my first > time, but not the last. > It is midnight here in Copenhagen, and i must go to work early tomorrow, so > i promise to make you all a lovely webpage with lots of pictures of the > event. > > Many Greetings > > the little danish gentleman > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 01:15:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5Fwqa021624 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 01:15:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5Epcf012216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5EjTM005318; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:14:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5EfTM005222 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2003041405143605300dmg05e>; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:14:36 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030413221040.00a3a2d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:12:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: <20030412215904.GC9995@net.indra.com> References: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] interesting book on e-bay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I imagine that someone on this list would be interested in this. it appears to be a thesis on costume, written in the 20's. maryann http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3512778370&category=38055 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 01:39:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5dnqa021656 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 01:39:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5clcf014463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5ckTM016331; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E5cgTM016286 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A9612F4F0102; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:38:41 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A95D277A02A4; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:38:37 -0500 Message-ID: <014701c30247$dfe58380$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> <5.1.0.14.2.20030413221040.00a3a2d0@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] interesting book on e-bay Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 01:37:01 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen this book before on ebay... like a couple of months ago. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 04:22:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E8Mjqa022312 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 04:22:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E8Ljcf021386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3E8LhDU003440; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:21:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web40002.mail.yahoo.com (web40002.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3E8LeDU003403 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:21:34 BST Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:21:34 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: H-costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone help me locate a source of 100% silk velvet. I have a commission for some Elizabethan goldwork embroidery just like the panels at Hardwick Hall and I need to locate some silk velvet for the ground. So far the only quote I have had is at £240 per metre plus carriage. Any ideas anyone? Rachel Oh and the V&A have asked me back for another talk. So I am a really happy woman at the moment! ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 06:43:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EAhfqa022549 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 06:43:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EAgfcf028192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 04:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EAgdkY013587; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 04:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EAgbkY013579 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 04:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.227.126.223] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1951Q5-0007CA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:42:37 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1951Q4-00020E-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:42:37 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030414113704.00a7e848@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:42:32 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? In-Reply-To: <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen a great deal of discussion on the subject of films and their accuracy, albeit from the aspect of how correct the costumes are. I therefore think that many of you may be interested in an article by Alison Weir that appeared in The Scotsman, a web based magazine for Scotland: http://news.scotsman.com/features.cfm?id=424752003 It mainly talks about accuracy from a historical viewpoint but I think you will still find it a fascinating read, I know I did. Lissa PS I'm not from Scotland myself, neither do I lived there. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 07:46:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EBkpqa022619 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:46:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EBjecf001806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EBjcUj002885; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EBjaUj002859 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3EBjZp12435.; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:45:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:45:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:45:03 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silk velvet? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3EBjaUj002859 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting article - I feel this merits a new thread! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> duchess@bustles-and-bows.co.uk 04/14/03 11:42am >>> I've seen a great deal of discussion on the subject of films and their accuracy, albeit from the aspect of how correct the costumes are. I therefore think that many of you may be interested in an article by Alison Weir that appeared in The Scotsman, a web based magazine for Scotland: http://news.scotsman.com/features.cfm?id=424752003 It mainly talks about accuracy from a historical viewpoint but I think you will still find it a fascinating read, I know I did. Lissa PS I'm not from Scotland myself, neither do I lived there. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 09:29:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDTlqa022814 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:29:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDSYcf009228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:28:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDSWmr013011; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDSUmr012990 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.227.126.223] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19540b-0003GL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:28:30 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19540b-0005Nc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:28:29 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030414142657.00a7e848@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:28:13 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silk velvet? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:45 14/04/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Interesting article - I feel this merits a new thread! Sorry I forgot to change the subject when I took a shortcut. Many apologies to the members of the list. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 09:32:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDWlqa022822 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDVjcf009692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDVjmr014815; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDVgmr014764 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.118] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A556208000F2; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:19:18 -0400 Message-ID: <005e01c30286$3e9dad60$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:02:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate, I too find this article interesting re historical portraits on film. Over the last three years I have been making a collection of some of these very films for my costume reference library. Some of the costuming has often been dreadful by contemporary standards; but seeing them as period pieces of our time, one can certainly observe the adage that one tends to reinterpret fashion in the mode of the present time.I am still looking for a 1920's film of an Eighteenth Century story; all the court scenes presented fabulous ball gowns sporting dropped waist lines! We have been entertained just recently with the latest "Napoleon" fantasy on A&E. I believe that at least the uniforms for this saga passed the reality test; However I was so reeling from the historicity of the story that I couldn't concentrate on the rest of the over all view. I"I've have read a lot about the man in fact and fiction and wonder who wrote the script. We all have a lingering picture of the famous coronation scene and there was nothing jarring in their version. The writers chose to exhibit a strange animosity between the Emperor and the Pope...in a scene of the Pope being met by Napoleon who "happens to be hunting" on the very road the carriage is taking. The saintly gent alights to greet him and the camera zooms in on the immaculate satin slipper stepping into the mud. I missed the chatter after the saga last year about Victoria and Albert. I suspect that the same writers worked on this one, too. This one had me reeling so about the costumes (especially in the beginning scenes) that I was already questioning the veracity of the rest of the story. This is another Period that has been nearly a lifelong study and I couldn't figure why they were taking such licence that wasn't,'t even artistic. With the scholarship available and the examples of the Bronte triumphs in serious minds both regarding costume and script, I find it hard to imagine why they bothered. Dumbing Down I guess is the answer. I had just about decided that I wouldn't bother to get these two films. But now, I can see that as teaching tools they would have some merit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? > Interesting article - I feel this merits a new thread! > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> duchess@bustles-and-bows.co.uk 04/14/03 11:42am >>> > I've seen a great deal of discussion on the subject of films and their > accuracy, albeit from the aspect of how correct the costumes are. I > therefore think that many of you may be interested in an article by Alison > Weir that appeared in The Scotsman, a web based magazine for Scotland: > > http://news.scotsman.com/features.cfm?id=424752003 > > It mainly talks about accuracy from a historical viewpoint but I think you > will still find it a fascinating read, I know I did. > > Lissa > > PS I'm not from Scotland myself, neither do I lived there. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan > service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working > around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 09:56:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDuWqa022858 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:56:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDtVcf011805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:55:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDtUdS025370; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EDtRdS025288 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:55:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1c6.8381903 (657) for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:55:19 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1c6.8381903.2bcc17c7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:55:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/13/2003 7:15:17 PM Central Standard Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > Arrgh! I'm working on my dress for the Friday Night social at Costume Con. > I have now ripped the zipper out and replaced it 7 times. I'm sewing it > onto two layers of duck with stretch velvet over them, and it looks awful. > Now I'm going to try hand prickstitching it, and hope I can make it strong > enough. > > Sheesh. Why did they ever invent these things? Give me lacing anytime. > Preach on, Sistah! Zippers are scarey to me. I've never tried to install one in anything. Darts confuse me, too. Dagnabbity new fangled fancy-schmancy sewing techniques. Sarra Wryght http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 10:31:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EEVZqa022918 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:31:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EEUEcf015182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EEUAdS013887; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from trollnet.no (mail.trollnet.no [213.161.161.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EEU7dS013826 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brittdspp63nqs [213.161.187.168] by trollnet.no (SMTPD32-7.07) id A60F2137013C; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:30:39 +0200 Message-ID: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> From: "Britt Halonen" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:30:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Historical films - ethnic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 2 days ago I saw the Canadian film "Atanarjuat - the fast runner". It told a 2000 year old inuit legend , and the clothing was beautiful. I have tried to search the internet hoping to find pictures of the costumes. I found something, but the pictures was small. Does any of You know where to look. I am interested because i live in a Sami area in Norway, where reindeerskin is or was very common for winterclothes. Regards from Britt Marie Halonen Lulit Gahkkorluodda 8 9520 Kautokeino, Norway. bhalonen@trollnet.no http://community.webshots.com/user/briha100 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 11:31:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFVnqa023030 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:31:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFURcf021763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:30:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFUOoE021439; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:30:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFUMoE021410 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.172]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F0F064802A4 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:30:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c3029b$2fa27bf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:33:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Now i have quickly made a page with pictures from Bath. As i have made it very quickly, the pictures are not clickable. I will make a nicer page later, when i have more time! Hope you enjoy, some of the costumes were very nice, i think. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/indexindhold.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 11:47:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFleqa023056 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFk9cf023363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFk7oE001699; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:46:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EFk3oE001537 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4D34E00154; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:33:39 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c30298$f59568c0$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical films - ethnic Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:16:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Britt Marie, I cannot answer your question directly but I may be able to put you in the right direction. As an aside, in our travels in Canada we have been delighted to find wonderful examples of the art and craft of indigenous peoples even in some of the smaller regional museums. And even at Heritage Plantation, (Massachusetts) there are examples of souvenirs brought back by arctic explores and such that give a flavor of the cultural development of Inuits and others. Likewise we have seen such a display exhibited by The National Geographic society in D.C. One of the magazines I subscribe to is Pieceworks, whose mission is to uncover arts of handwork from the past and "pass them on". (They do a lot on Scandinavian knitting, embroidery, and lace.) One article featured a "Quiviut cap to knit". In the bibliography the author lists "the Inuvialuit people of Western Canada...Northwest Territories of Canada". There has been at least one other article on their use of skins in clothing development; unfortunately,missing from my file. I would assume if you contacted textile authorities from that region that they would have a wealth of sources to offer. There is also a volume titled "To Kill the Caribou" which features ceremonial hunting coats from the 17th-19th century. I've been plotting an interpretation of this style of the craft as an art project for some time. It finally looks like it will make it to the "Doing" table this year. Good luck in your search. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Britt Halonen" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] Historical films - ethnic > 2 days ago I saw the Canadian film "Atanarjuat - the fast runner". It told a > 2000 year old inuit legend , and the clothing was beautiful. I have tried > to search the internet hoping to find pictures of the costumes. I found > something, but the pictures was small. Does any of You know where to look. I > am interested because i live in a Sami area in Norway, where reindeerskin is > or was very common for winterclothes. > Regards from > Britt Marie Halonen > Lulit Gahkkorluodda 8 > 9520 Kautokeino, Norway. > bhalonen@trollnet.no > http://community.webshots.com/user/briha100 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 12:22:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EGMIqa023139 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:22:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EGL3cf027571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EGL1ou025897; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EGKvou025854 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CB27AB1D for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 25950-04 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-155.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.101.155]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ABC27A8F2 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:20:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <1c6.8381903.2bcc17c7@aol.com> Message-Id: <1040A688-6E95-11D7-827C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hate hate hate putting in zippers -- but with a pickstitch, I can put one in by hand as fast as most folks I know can machine them. It just makes it a lot easier to control! On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 06:55 AM, LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/13/2003 7:15:17 PM Central Standard Time, > margo@margospatterns.com writes: > >> Arrgh! I'm working on my dress for the Friday Night social at >> Costume Con. >> I have now ripped the zipper out and replaced it 7 times. I'm sewing >> it >> onto two layers of duck with stretch velvet over them, and it looks >> awful. >> Now I'm going to try hand prickstitching it, and hope I can make it >> strong >> enough. >> >> Sheesh. Why did they ever invent these things? Give me lacing anytime. >> > > Preach on, Sistah! Zippers are scarey to me. I've never tried to > install one > in anything. Darts confuse me, too. Dagnabbity new fangled > fancy-schmancy > sewing techniques. > > Sarra Wryght > http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 13:06:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EH6vqa023225 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EH5Zcf002833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EH5V6K029016; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:05:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3EH5R6K028956 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:05:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 3450 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2003 17:05:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2003 17:05:26 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? From: To: In-Reply-To: <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Can anyone help me locate a source of 100% silk velvet. I have a > commission for some Elizabethan goldwork embroidery just like the panels > at Hardwick Hall and I need to locate some silk velvet for the ground. > So far the only quote I have had is at £240 per metre plus carriage. > Any ideas anyone? > > Rachel > > Oh and the V&A have asked me back for another talk. So I am a really > happy woman at the moment! > The only place I have ever seen 100% silk velvet was at this store: Silk Trading Co 1616 16th St, San Francisco, CA 94103 Phone: (415) 621-5587 It was at least $100 per yard and when I saw it, it only came in an white/off-white color. I am sure it would dye beautifully, though. The only other silk velvet I have seen was one that was a silk/rayon blend. That one is available at: Exotic Silks 1959 Leghorn St # B, Mountain View, CA 94043 Phone: (650) 965-7760 If you needed a contact for getting this stuff, I can assist you if you want. I can't do it immediately, but I could get it for you within a month. Good luck! Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 13:45:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EHjlqa023304 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EHiUcf007678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EHiS6K029328; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:44:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from trollnet.no (mail.trollnet.no [213.161.161.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EHiH6K029179 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brittdspp63nqs [213.161.187.168] by trollnet.no (SMTPD32-7.07) id A39270004A; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:44:50 +0200 Message-ID: <020d01c302ad$8a66b350$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> From: "Britt Halonen" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> <001501c30298$f59568c0$775183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical films - ethnic Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:44:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen, thank You very much for your answer. I will search for Museums in the Arctic region amongdt other things. Have a nice Easter Holiday.. Hilsen fra Britt Marie Halonen Lulit Gahkkorluodda 8 9520 Kautokeino bhalonen@trollnet.no http://community.webshots.com/user/briha100 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 14:42:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIgmqa023539 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:42:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIfJcf014416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIfFDX009764; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:41:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIfBDX009697 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.172]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C830E5EE061 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:41:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000a01c302b5$def2dc20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:44:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] a little danish gent......... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, there are not words. Not in Danish or English for how beautiful the famous suit looks on you, nor for how you consistently amaze us all with your talents. Wow cubed. angela +++++ Dear Angela. Thankyou soo much for your fine words, well i am satisfied with the result, but, the next suit i will make (baught silk in London, ribbed silk) will be better fitted in the back and shoulders. When i saw pictures from the back, i have realised, that i should not have altered the cut (making the back pieces wider) and i must make the shoulders narrower next time. An 18th century gentleman must not have broad shoulders. It was absolutely wonderfull to participate in the event, and meeting all those other people, who adores 18th century as madly as i do. Thanks Angela............... Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 14:44:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIiBqa023551 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:44:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIgpcf014561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIgoDX010821; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIglDX010786 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:42:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host217-39-15-127.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.15.127] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 1958uj-00000d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:42:46 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c302b5$9bda0a80$7f0f27d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c3029b$2fa27bf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:42:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > Hi > Now i have quickly made a page with pictures from Bath. I must declare an interest here; I was the person who took some of the photos, and I fear that my technological skills are not all they might be. But I can tell you all that Bjarne was undoubtedly the best dressed gentleman there, and also one of the most 18th century gentlemen present. There is so much more to it than clothes, or jewellery, or whatever. It is about the way people walk, and talk, and stand, and dance, and bow, and their manners when they are doing all of these things. And Bjarne did them right:-) I only got out of hospital last Tuesday, having been in for almost a fortnight, so I was not up to dancing at a Ball. And since that seemed a most dreadful waste I fielded my daughter, Bella, as a substitute. Fortunately, a chemise de la reine is easy to adjust by comparison with most costumes- thanks Dawn!- though there was the mad panic to try and make some underpinnings for her to go with it. And I forgot to pack the stiff ribbon which was used as a waistband so we had to improvise; silk gauze does not make a good substitute! There was also the mad panic to try and transform Bella's poker straight hair into something more a la mode. Not perfect, but better than nothing. And people seemed to think that Bjarne and Bella made a delightful couple, so it was all worth it! There were people from Switzerland, Germany, France and Denmark, as well as Britain, and everyone I spoke to had an absolutely marvellous time. So, for all you people who can make it to England for the next event, start sewing now. You won't regret it... best wishes Stevie > As i have made it very quickly, the pictures are not clickable. > I will make a nicer page later, when i have more time! > Hope you enjoy, some of the costumes were very nice, i think. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/indexindhold.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 14:56:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIu9qa023601 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:56:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIsicf015972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIsgDX018667; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIsdDX018621 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.172]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1BF2D5EE13C for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:54:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c302b7$c1d701f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:57:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Hamilton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath > Rest up, Danish Gentleman, after your long journey...then post lots and lots > of pictures! You looked fabulous. > > Marsha Dear Marsha. I have rested a little, and posted, but i need more time to make it better with clickable pictures. 5 days in hectic London, and 3 days in Bath, was exhausting. It was freezing cold in London, and the hotel had shot down the heeting, so it was a cold experience. After 2 days, they turned on the heating again, i think they had many complaints about it. I saw the effigy corset, and i saw the pink baroque corset. One of the highlights was seing the real Madame Pompadour portrait at Wallace collektion. And finding wonderfull ribbed silk for a new embroidered suit :-) with 2 matching colours for waistcoats. I think i want to rest the idea of making the Queen Anne dress for a while, i have gotten addicted to 18th century suits. Berwick Street is a wonderfull fabric street!!! Thanks for your kind words.......... Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 14:59:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIxdqa023652 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:59:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIwJcf016437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIwJUA021172; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EIv0UA020309 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.172]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D60D15EE13D for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:56:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001601c302b8$16735100$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c30209$a3a77dd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001801c3023d$367b0b80$b31177d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:00:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath > Julia might be interested in focusing on your work Bjarne. There should be > "designers" of historical costuming too that vintage clothing magazines > write about, known like we know top designers like Versace or Lacoix. I > could see an article about your background, inspiration and work! > > Lisa > > P.S. Doesn't it seem strange to everyone that Donnatella Vessace manages to > escape disparaging remarks from the press about her looks even though she > looks like a tanned cow. Actually, I think it's nice, but such standards > should apply to everyone. Hi Julia has asked me if i would be interresting in an artikle about my work, and i have accepted. Sometime in the future. Thanks for your wonderfull words. Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 3:11 PM > Subject: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath > > > > Hello! > > I am sorry i teased you all, last week before i went to England, my > > frontpage teased me. > > But here is a little preview of my first visit dressed in costume ever: > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/readytogo.html > > I have just come home from Bath, and it was absolutely lovely, my first > > time, but not the last. > > It is midnight here in Copenhagen, and i must go to work early tomorrow, > so > > i promise to make you all a lovely webpage with lots of pictures of the > > event. > > > > Many Greetings > > > > the little danish gentleman > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 15:08:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EJ8kqa023737 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EJ7Scf017330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EJ7RUA027638; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:07:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3EJ7NUA027555 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:07:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWrvQdH9tFddJS5ywWPb1ujookAAMGnvkDQ==">; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:06:43 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HVRF78NL; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:06:43 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:02:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 Message-ID: <20030414.150731.-70315.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What an elegant crowd in such elegant surroundings. And you looked the best of the lot! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 15:21:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EJLnqa024000 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:21:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EJKUcf018783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EJKSUA006864; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EJKMUA006776 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:20:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.172]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D414C5EE130 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:20:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003401c302bb$5a60a950$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030414.150731.-70315.1.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:23:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Lalah Oh thankyou to you, very nice said. It was a little bad, that i had no more space in my digital camera, but spending five days in London, i simply had to make some photos. There were many more people than you see here, and belive me, many many beautifull costumes. I think there must have been more than 100 people there. It was unforgetable........... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 > What an elegant crowd in such elegant surroundings. And you looked the > best of the lot! > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 16:54:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EKsdqa024281 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:54:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EKs2cf029744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EKruCd014399; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3EKroCd014257 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWrvQdH9tFddJWZ+Z5p4agwlna4U8PRhoIA==">; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:53:09 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HVRNA4FU; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:53:09 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:54:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 Message-ID: <20030414.165445.-70315.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't it always the way? You go off thinking you have more than enough film or cards for a digital camera and then discover there are just way too many things to take pictures of. At least you did get some good shots and they sure look like you were having fun. Are you going to put up pictures of your London adventures too? Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 18:27:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EMRfqa024509 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:27:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EMSkcf011577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EMSaRM025620; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta08ps.bigpond.com (mta08ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3EMSTRM025459 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.87]) by mta08ps.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HDC005ANUFAPZ@mta08ps.email.bigpond.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:28:23 +1000 (EST) Received: from 203.54.114.243 ([203.54.114.243]) by psmam07.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 119/9335948); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:28:17 +0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:29:33 -0700 From: Claire Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3E9C255D.4006396C@bigpond.com> Organization: Netscape Online member MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en References: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > Interesting article - I feel this merits a new thread! > > Has anyone read any of Alison Weir's books? Is she any good? I was quite interested to read in that article that she was planning a book on Isabella the She-Wolf of France. I've had an interest in her for a long time, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of information around about her apart from 'Geez everyone hated her sooooo much'. Definitely someone whose historical character needs reclaiming. Then again maybe she really was very nasty. But the other books I've seen in the shop by Alison Weir have been very expensive, and I wouldn't like to throw away that cash and have a stinker on my hands. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 19:10:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENAZqa024612 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:10:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENBxcf016076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENBvK8024280; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail8.kc.rr.com (mail8.kc.rr.com [24.94.162.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENBuK8024249 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:11:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail8.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:12:14 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030414181430.00a15d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:16:40 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... In-Reply-To: <1c6.8381903.2bcc17c7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For my own Friday night social dress, I put in my first hand-picked zipper --- I'm never putting one in by machine again! Putting it in by hand was so much easier and less stressful! There was an article recently in Threads magazine on hand-picked zippers that made it look easy - and it is. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 09:55 AM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/13/2003 7:15:17 PM Central Standard Time, >margo@margospatterns.com writes: > > > Arrgh! I'm working on my dress for the Friday Night social at Costume Con. > > I have now ripped the zipper out and replaced it 7 times. I'm sewing it > > onto two layers of duck with stretch velvet over them, and it looks awful. > > Now I'm going to try hand prickstitching it, and hope I can make it strong > > enough. > > > > Sheesh. Why did they ever invent these things? Give me lacing anytime. > > > >Preach on, Sistah! Zippers are scarey to me. I've never tried to install one >in anything. Darts confuse me, too. Dagnabbity new fangled fancy-schmancy >sewing techniques. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 19:50:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENo6qa024707 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:50:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENnPcf023696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:49:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENnNK8021232; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:49:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ENnJK8021169 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16125 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:07:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:07:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030414181430.00a15d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: > For my own Friday night social dress, I put in my first hand-picked > zipper --- I'm never putting one in by machine again! Putting it in by > hand was so much easier and less stressful! There was an article > recently in Threads magazine on hand-picked zippers that made it look > easy - and it is. I must be *so* ignorant of modern techniques. What does "hand-picked" mean? To me, "picking" a seam means taking it out. I've hand-sewn zippers before, though. What's the difference? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 20:34:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0Y0qa024813 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:34:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0ZMcf001498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0ZL2j020297; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:35:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0ZI2j020265 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63ECE7A489 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 32970-07 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-155.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.101.155]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81297AA6B for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:35:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20BF81A6-6EDA-11D7-827C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO it means you are using a "pick stitch", which is a backstitch with only a short "pick" of thread showing, instead of a more continuous line. On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 05:07 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: > >> For my own Friday night social dress, I put in my first hand-picked >> zipper --- I'm never putting one in by machine again! Putting it in by >> hand was so much easier and less stressful! There was an article >> recently in Threads magazine on hand-picked zippers that made it look >> easy - and it is. > > I must be *so* ignorant of modern techniques. What does "hand-picked" > mean? To me, "picking" a seam means taking it out. I've hand-sewn > zippers > before, though. What's the difference? > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 20:35:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0ZLqa024822 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:35:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0akcf001717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0aj2j021445; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0af2j021323 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97BE27A489 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 32970-09 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-155.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.101.155]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88F67A861 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:36:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3E9C255D.4006396C@bigpond.com> Message-Id: <4EF7C603-6EDA-11D7-827C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've read three of her books - she's fantastic, IMO. She also reads a lot of her material from Elizabeth I on the DVD (it's a special commentary feature) of the BBC miniseries Elizabeth R. On Tuesday, April 15, 2003, at 08:29 AM, Claire Clarke wrote: > > > Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> Interesting article - I feel this merits a new thread! >> >> > > Has anyone read any of Alison Weir's books? Is she any good? I > was quite interested to read in that article that she was planning a > book on Isabella the She-Wolf of France. I've had an interest in > her for a long time, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way > of information around about her apart from 'Geez everyone hated > her sooooo much'. Definitely someone whose historical character > needs reclaiming. Then again maybe she really was very nasty. > But the other books I've seen in the shop by Alison Weir have > been very expensive, and I wouldn't like to throw away that > cash and have a stinker on my hands. > > Claire > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 20:53:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0rGqa024864 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:53:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0s9cf003554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0s62j002073; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F0s32j001999 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003041500535805100ng7i1e>; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:53:58 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c302e9$7ca68830$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030413131154.06fd2300@mail.earthlink.net><002601c301e6$c4a8ab80$befc8218@hopperflop2> <3E99E1E9.BE7F7BEE@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:53:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well right, of course. Silly me! ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old Navy > Because it's still more okay to be a larger man that it is to be a > larger woman.... > --sue > > Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > > > What drives me crazy about the limited sizing is that stores like J. Crew > > will carry a men's size up to chest 50", but women's sizes only up to bust > > 41". While all of us who are well-endowed, men and women, have problems > > finding clothes that fit, I STILL don't understand why it's okay to carry > > larger men's sizes than women's. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 21:07:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F178qa024917 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:07:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F18Ycf004743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F18WoB008607; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:08:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F18ToB008576 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3F17UM29182 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:07:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304150107.h3F17UM29182@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Lloyd Mitchell" wrote: [...] > I missed the chatter after the saga last year about Victoria and Albert. I > suspect that the same writers worked on this one, too. This one had me > reeling so about the costumes (especially in the beginning scenes) that I > was already questioning the veracity of the rest of the story. This is > another Period that has been nearly a lifelong study and I couldn't figure > why they were taking such licence that wasn't,'t even artistic. With the > scholarship available and the examples of the Bronte triumphs in serious > minds both regarding costume and script, I find it hard to imagine why they > bothered. Dumbing Down I guess is the answer. On the other hand, "Mrs.Brown" was excellent. The script was not dumbed down, and the costuming was very carefully copied from photos of Victoria. There are two costumes in particular that I _have_ copies of the photos they must have used for the models. [Sigh, was told at my wedding that I looked like a "young and pretty Queen Victoria. Now I've reached the stage where I'm nearly as wide as I am tall.] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 21:09:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F19Xqa024927 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:09:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1B1cf004920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1B0oB009822; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1AwoB009729 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2003041501105305300dnp5je>; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: <008701c302eb$d9950ce0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4EF7C603-6EDA-11D7-827C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was 100%silkvelvet? Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:10:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Agreed re: Alison Weir -- she's one of my favorite historians. While she leans just a wee bit towards the pop side of history, this makes her books really engaging reading. Her books on the Tudors (most notably _The Six Wives of Henry VIII_, _The Children of Henry VIII_, and _The Life of Elizabeth I_) are just fabulous. I'm excited to see her working on Mary Queen of Scots (the one bio I read of her was quite boring -- I'm sure Weir will pique my interest) and Isabella of France. Re: historical films -- I think that all of the things we're discussing (and have discussed previously) are true of the film industry (and media?) as a whole. Everything is being dumbed down. Case in point: Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez are in talks to star in a remake of Casablanca. What could be more horrible? Anyway, studios want guaranteed money makers... they don't want to risk money on anything that might have a (relatively) smaller, targeted audience. And while I do have a weak spot for cheesy historical drama, and (for example) I thought the Cate Blanchett film Elizabeth was a good characterization even though they got everything else wrong, I don't think that they actually NEED to rewrite the original history. I like Weir's quote in the article, "History, as they say, is stranger than fiction, and I see no need to embellish or alter it in the essential..." Too true! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 21:19:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1Jkqa024943 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1L7cf005713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1L5oB015100; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1L2oB015050 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB941ACF014C; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:08:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c302e9$182f62a0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304150107.h3F17UM29182@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:51:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Mrs Brown" indeed is a different story. I did not know that the costumes were made from photos,but I am not surprised. The title escapes me, but I also am fond of the Helen Hayes portrayal of Victoria.From her earlier letters I think one can see that she did get "amused" once in a while. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? > > "Lloyd Mitchell" wrote: > [...] > > I missed the chatter after the saga last year about Victoria and Albert. I > > suspect that the same writers worked on this one, too. This one had me > > reeling so about the costumes (especially in the beginning scenes) that I > > was already questioning the veracity of the rest of the story. This is > > another Period that has been nearly a lifelong study and I couldn't figure > > why they were taking such licence that wasn't,'t even artistic. With the > > scholarship available and the examples of the Bronte triumphs in serious > > minds both regarding costume and script, I find it hard to imagine why they > > bothered. Dumbing Down I guess is the answer. > > On the other hand, "Mrs.Brown" was excellent. The script was not dumbed > down, and the costuming was very carefully copied from photos of Victoria. > There are two costumes in particular that I _have_ copies of the photos > they must have used for the models. > > [Sigh, was told at my wedding that I looked like a "young and pretty Queen > Victoria. Now I've reached the stage where I'm nearly as wide as I am tall.] > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 21:46:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1kRqa025041 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:46:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1lpcf007509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1ljoB026780; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster3.mebtel.net [64.40.67.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1ldoB026743 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4C56AB8F for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.6]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HDD3HT00.4KU for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:44:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3E9B7350.4040901@grics.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:49:52 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] interesting book on e-bay References: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> <5.1.0.14.2.20030413221040.00a3a2d0@mail.attbi.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030413221040.00a3a2d0@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I keep getting "The document contains no data: - did they take it down? Heather L MaryAnn Jones wrote: > I imagine that someone on this list would be interested in this. it > appears to be a thesis on costume, written in the 20's. maryann > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3512778370&category=38055 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 21:52:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1qGqa025058 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:52:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1rfcf007898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1rdoB029263; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:53:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F1raoB029232 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:53:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2113.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.113]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h3F1sN5L015736 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:54:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3E9B6585.6C5E346D@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:51:02 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical films - ethnic References: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Britt, I don't know of any European museums specifically, although many probably have a few Native American items, but there is a Museum of the American Indian which is part of the Smithsonian Institution here in the US. A friend of mine is the illustrator for their current volumes on Native American culture (it is a massive undertaking, apparently). I will ask him if the volume on Inuit peoples has come out, and where I can find references to the clothing. I am pretty sure one of the museums in New York city has a few sets of the sealskin clothing (Ethnographic section of Natural History Museum?), and there are some archaeological examples. Let me know if you want this info, and I'll send a note. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 22:07:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F276qa025113 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:07:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F28Tcf008954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F28R4q005932; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F28P4q005893 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:08:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39C03A543 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.6]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HDD4GF00.R8G for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:05:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3E9B782E.5040003@grics.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:10:38 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? References: <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO These guys say they occasionally get it. I sent them a quick email asking if they have any cause i'm curious too... Silk Road: silk velvet and silk velvet burnout ----- Heather L dch@inreach.com wrote: >>Can anyone help me locate a source of 100% silk velvet. I have a >>commission for some Elizabethan goldwork embroidery just like the panels >>at Hardwick Hall and I need to locate some silk velvet for the ground. >>So far the only quote I have had is at £240 per metre plus carriage. >>Any ideas anyone? >> >>Rachel >> >>Oh and the V&A have asked me back for another talk. So I am a really >>happy woman at the moment! >> >> >> > >The only place I have ever seen 100% silk velvet was at this store: > >Silk Trading Co > 1616 16th St, San Francisco, CA 94103 > Phone: (415) 621-5587 > >It was at least $100 per yard and when I saw it, it only came in an >white/off-white color. I am sure it would dye beautifully, though. The >only other silk velvet I have seen was one that was a silk/rayon blend. >That one is available at: > >Exotic Silks > 1959 Leghorn St # B, Mountain View, CA 94043 > Phone: (650) 965-7760 > >If you needed a contact for getting this stuff, I can assist you if you >want. I can't do it immediately, but I could get it for you within a >month. > >Good luck! > >Diana > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 22:31:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2Vaqa025246 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:31:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2VAcf010666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2V84q016111; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2Ux4q016046 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p58-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.186] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 195GDo-0001Mt-00; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:30:57 +1200 Message-ID: <006201c302f7$0a923ec0$bacfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20BF81A6-6EDA-11D7-827C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now I know why I do 16th century... Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:30:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > it means you are using a "pick stitch", which is a backstitch with only > a short "pick" of thread showing, instead of a more continuous line. I thought that was prick stitch? Oh nope... http://www.sewing.org/html/ls-handsewing2.html In the half back stitch section it does specifically refer to a pick stitch for zippers. OK so I'm going to check what a prick stitch is;) Oh... seems to be the same thing.... http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=cache:z3Vlzl_Yg2sC:www.sewing.org/files/GL- velvet.pdf+%22prick+stitch%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 (that's the html view of the pdf file.. if it doesn't work: Working from the right side of the garment, stitch thezipper in place with a tiny "prick:" stitch. This is a tinybackstitch (picking one or two threads) on the right sideof the garment. A longer, reinforced stitch is formed onthe inside.A google search turned up 21 instances of prick stitch and 105 instances of pick stitch.. mind you most oth those were not about sewing;) It just happens that "pick stitch" is quite common in a sentance.. as in pick the stictch.. or who did Lilo pick?Stitch...;) michaela http://glittersweet.com > >> For my own Friday night social dress, I put in my first hand-picked > >> zipper --- I'm never putting one in by machine again! Putting it in by > >> hand was so much easier and less stressful! There was an article > >> recently in Threads magazine on hand-picked zippers that made it look > >> easy - and it is. > > > > I must be *so* ignorant of modern techniques. What does "hand-picked" > > mean? To me, "picking" a seam means taking it out. I've hand-sewn > > zippers > > before, though. What's the difference? > > > > --Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 22:51:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2paqa025350 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2qxcf012435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2qx4q028127; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2qu4q028085 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.7d.37821d35 (4012) for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <7d.37821d35.2bcccdfb@aol.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:52:43 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/14/03 10:49:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, herself-the-elf@rogers.com writes: > Designer Fabrics carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140/yard > (Canadian)....way too expensive for me. I've seen a couple colours, > including midnight blue. > > www.designerfabrics.to I covet their fabric. Can't afford it, but I covet it! Someone on ebay was supposedly offering 10 yards of 100% silk velvet for $150, but I didn't trust them...really, more than $2000 worth of fabric with a BIN price of $150? Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 22:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2q0qa025353 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:52:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2mDcf012078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:48:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2m94q026264; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F2m54q026211 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VALINOR ([24.102.199.33]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030415024800.UNXV4339.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:48:00 -0400 Message-ID: <010a01c302f9$6d743370$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:47:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.199.33] using ID at Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:47:59 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Designer Fabrics carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140/yard (Canadian)....way too expensive for me. I've seen a couple colours, including midnight blue. www.designerfabrics.to -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? > > Can anyone help me locate a source of 100% silk velvet. I have a > > commission for some Elizabethan goldwork embroidery just like the panels > > at Hardwick Hall and I need to locate some silk velvet for the ground. > > So far the only quote I have had is at £240 per metre plus carriage. > > Any ideas anyone? > > > > Rachel > > > > Oh and the V&A have asked me back for another talk. So I am a really > > happy woman at the moment! > > > > The only place I have ever seen 100% silk velvet was at this store: > > Silk Trading Co > 1616 16th St, San Francisco, CA 94103 > Phone: (415) 621-5587 > > It was at least $100 per yard and when I saw it, it only came in an > white/off-white color. I am sure it would dye beautifully, though. The > only other silk velvet I have seen was one that was a silk/rayon blend. > That one is available at: > > Exotic Silks > 1959 Leghorn St # B, Mountain View, CA 94043 > Phone: (650) 965-7760 > > If you needed a contact for getting this stuff, I can assist you if you > want. I can't do it immediately, but I could get it for you within a > month. > > Good luck! > > Diana > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 23:58:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F3wHqa025715 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:58:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F3w0cf017005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F3vwta025059; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F3vtta025026 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:57:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qt5po.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.151.56] helo=MEZA) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 195HZt-0002eF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:57:55 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:57:38 -0500 From: jlkelley X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Organization: slight X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <606433935.20030414225738@ix.netcom.com> To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical films - ethnic In-Reply-To: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> References: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do not know if this might help, I have not looked at all of it but I remember seeing inuit clothing at the Arkticum museum in Finland. http://g.wulles.free.fr/capnord/clinsdoeil/pages/museesa.htm :) jonica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 14 23:59:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F3xKqa025720 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:59:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F40lcf017194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F40lta026231; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F40jta026204 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-12hc5uh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.23.209] helo=earthlink.net) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 195Hci-0005Av-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:00:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3E9B83E6.5F5DEE46@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:00:38 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was100%silkvelvet? References: <4EF7C603-6EDA-11D7-827C-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> <008701c302eb$d9950ce0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > And while I do have a weak spot for cheesy historical drama, and (for > example) I thought the Cate Blanchett film Elizabeth was a good > characterization even though they got everything else wrong, I don't think > that they actually NEED to rewrite the original history. I like Weir's > quote in the article, "History, as they say, is stranger than fiction, and I > see no need to embellish or alter it in the essential..." Too true! I saved this quote from TV Guide: If you read any script for TV or film that calls itself historical, no more than 40 percent of it is real. The rest is made-up crap. -- Richard Dreyfuss --Charlene -- Music is now so foolish that I am amazed. Everything that is wrong is permitted, and no attention is paid to what the old generation wrote as composition. -- Samuel Scheidt (1651) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 00:00:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F402qa025726 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:00:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F41Vcf017276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:01:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F41Vta026579; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:01:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F41Tta026560 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-12hc5uh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.23.209] helo=earthlink.net) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 195HdR-00063E-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:01:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3E9B8412.973EF933@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:01:22 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] interesting book on e-bay References: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4><3E9B7350.4040901@grics.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Came up just fine for me. --Charlene -- Music is now so foolish that I am amazed. Everything that is wrong is permitted, and no attention is paid to what the old generation wrote as composition. -- Samuel Scheidt (1651) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 00:56:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F4u8qa025919 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:56:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F4vScf020905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F4vRQh017883; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from trollnet.no (mail.trollnet.no [213.161.161.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F4vNQh017853 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brittdspp63nqs [213.161.187.168] by trollnet.no (SMTPD32-7.07) id A1545810100; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:57:56 +0200 Message-ID: <003a01c3030b$92a64680$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> From: "Britt Halonen" To: "Historical Costume" References: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> <3E9B6585.6C5E346D@dandy.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical films - ethnic Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:57:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Many thanks to everybody who answered me on this. I have got many ideas on how and where to search. I also found a review of a book that looks interesting: "Sinews of Survival - The living legacy of Inuit Clothing" by Betty Kobayashi Issenman. She has been working with research and catalogued the Arctic clothing collections at the McCord museum in Montreal. Hilsen fra Britt Marie Halonen Lulit Gahkkorluodda 8 9520 Kautokeino, Norway bhalonen@trollnet.no http://community.webshots.com/user/briha100 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 01:22:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F5Mcqa025963 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:22:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F4OCcf018786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F4OBta005212; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F4O8ta005188 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F96A281C7 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.6]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HDDAQN00.GMF for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:20:47 -0500 Message-ID: <3E9B97FE.5090007@grics.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:26:22 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] interesting book on e-bay References: <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4> <002001c3013f$613c1200$c4319fd4@h1f0g4><3E9B7350.4040901@grics.net> <3E9B8412.973EF933@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3E9B8412.973EF933@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hum... puter must have been cranky. It worked today... Wow, a little hard on the ole' budget! HL Charlene Charette wrote: >Came up just fine for me. > >--Charlene > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 01:33:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F5Xqqa026033 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:33:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F5ZMcf023106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:35:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F5ZKQh002379; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3F5ZGQh002346 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030415053516.6190.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.208.191] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:35:16 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:35:16 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001001c302b7$c1d701f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne--what wonderful pictures! Thanks so very much for sharing with us. There were really impressive men's ensembles--but I thought yours was the handsomest!Albra Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Hamilton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little danish gentlemans visit to Bath > Rest up, Danish Gentleman, after your long journey...then post lots and lots > of pictures! You looked fabulous. > > Marsha Dear Marsha. I have rested a little, and posted, but i need more time to make it better with clickable pictures. 5 days in hectic London, and 3 days in Bath, was exhausting. It was freezing cold in London, and the hotel had shot down the heeting, so it was a cold experience. After 2 days, they turned on the heating again, i think they had many complaints about it. I saw the effigy corset, and i saw the pink baroque corset. One of the highlights was seing the real Madame Pompadour portrait at Wallace collektion. And finding wonderfull ribbed silk for a new embroidered suit :-) with 2 matching colours for waistcoats. I think i want to rest the idea of making the Queen Anne dress for a while, i have gotten addicted to 18th century suits. Berwick Street is a wonderfull fabric street!!! Thanks for your kind words.......... Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 02:44:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F6iCqa003618 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 02:44:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F6jfcf026511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F6jeb7026663; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F6jcb7026655 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost1.mebtel.net (gricsmail.mebtel.net [64.40.67.124]) by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA21C20097 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 02:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grics.net ([66.79.58.6]) by mailhost1.mebtel.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HDDHAG00.IVF for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:42:16 -0500 Message-ID: <3E9BB928.6090703@grics.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 02:47:52 -0500 From: "H. Law" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <01e301c30292$6a035570$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> <3E9B6585.6C5E346D@dandy.net> <003a01c3030b$92a64680$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> In-Reply-To: <003a01c3030b$92a64680$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] (OT) Henslowe scan? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just downloaded a couple of OCR programs. Would it be a violation of ethics if someone could e me a fairly hi-res scan of a page of Henslowe so I can try out that earlier suggestion I had for OCR scanning it? Please email me offlist if you're interested BTW... I have a 14-day trial of a *handwriting* OCR thingie. Probably wouldn't work on the handwritten Henslowe, but whattheheck, why not "acid-test" it :-) This is experimental - I wanna play with my new toy! Heather L _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 03:18:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F7Ipqa010992 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 03:18:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F7KKcf028322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F7KI9E009344; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F7KG9E009323 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from susan (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8616E6A823 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001401c3031f$e14152d0$9debcacf@susan> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3E9C255D.4006396C@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:23:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Has anyone read any of Alison Weir's books? Is she any good? Well, she decided that Richard III did kill the Princes in the Tower, and that is definitely not true - as any good ricardian will tell you. So I have doubts on her scholarship. Nice picture books though. Struck me as pop history more then solid history. I like Antonia Fraser better. Susan Who would rather gossip about people who have been dead for centuries then anyone currently alive. Cept the neighbors. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 03:39:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F7dqqa017152 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 03:39:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F7fNcf029260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3F7fM9E016521; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3F7fJ9E016481 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030415074114.70769.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:41:14 BST Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:41:14 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000701c3029b$2fa27bf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good Grief! You can tell when you have done too much re-enactment, too much living history, too long on the internet, too many costume related anythings when you know almost _every_ face on those photos! Glad I didn't go *grins* too many ghosts, and some in cupboards. However, Bjarne, you look FANTASTIC!!!! and I agree, you look just like coming out of a painting and are the best dressed, and truest gentleman of them all. Lovely, lovely, lovely Bjarne. It was time that YOU went in a gorgeous creation, and not just all us ladies that you have outfitted. Nicole --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi > Now i have quickly made a page with pictures from Bath. > As i have made it very quickly, the pictures are not clickable. > I will make a nicer page later, when i have more time! > Hope you enjoy, some of the costumes were very nice, i think. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/indexindhold.htm > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 09:39:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FDdlqa025155 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:39:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FDercf017832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FDeoM8021327; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FDekM8021269 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f52.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.82]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CBB947FFFD for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:40:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003401c30354$a3465ea0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030415074114.70769.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:40:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Nicole. Thanks a lot for your lovely praise. Coming from you, makes me even happier. I have got quite addicted now, and i want to go to Sweden this autumn, and Bath again next year. Many happy greetings to you, Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 > Good Grief! You can tell when you have done too much re-enactment, too much > living history, too long on the internet, too many costume related anythings > when you know almost _every_ face on those photos! Glad I didn't go *grins* too > many ghosts, and some in cupboards. > > However, Bjarne, you look FANTASTIC!!!! and I agree, you look just like coming > out of a painting and are the best dressed, and truest gentleman of them all. > > Lovely, lovely, lovely Bjarne. It was time that YOU went in a gorgeous > creation, and not just all us ladies that you have outfitted. > > Nicole > > --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi > > Now i have quickly made a page with pictures from Bath. > > As i have made it very quickly, the pictures are not clickable. > > I will make a nicer page later, when i have more time! > > Hope you enjoy, some of the costumes were very nice, i think. > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/indexindhold.htm > > > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > "Brains, not Bombs" > http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Plus > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 10:18:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEI6qa025324 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:18:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEJWcf020964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEJVmU010369; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEJRmU010287 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:19:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f52.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.82]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A7C3447FEC2 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:19:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c3035a$0b08c550$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:19:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Effigy corset of Westminster Abbey X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I saw the effigy corset in Westminster Abbey and i looked very close to it from all angels. And i would say, as it is a real Elizabethan corset, that it could have ben designed to go with a wheel farthingale. The long busked frontpiece, would ideally lye on top of the hoop and the eylet holes on top of all the tabs, would secure the wheel. The busk would press down the hoop so that it gets the fashionable tilt. Another hint, that the wheelfarthingale could be a real thing!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 10:39:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEdTqa025389 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEercf023040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEeomU021994; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FEejmU021933 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f52.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.82]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 92397480007 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:40:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002b01c3035d$095393e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3E9C255D.4006396C@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:41:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, At V&A i baught a book about Elizabeth I called: In public and in private Elizabeth I and her world, written by Susan Watkins. It is richly illustrated and very nice. Then V&A had a large heavy heavy book : Design & The Decorative Arts by Michael Snodin and John Styles, full of all the lovely things they have in the museum, including pictures of costumes. Then i baught Embroidery in Britain from 1200 to 1750. It was a pitty they did not have the book that covers the rest of time, or this is perhaps not finished yeat? dont know. And Gardening with Silk and Gold, A History Of Gardens In Embroidery by Thomasina Beck. At Berwick Street i baught silk in Cloth House nr. 98 Berwick Street, so i was a little worried about the weight of my trunk, when i was going back, but Leif didnt have as much as i did, so it went ok. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claire Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was 100% silkvelvet? > > > Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > Interesting article - I feel this merits a new thread! > > > > > > Has anyone read any of Alison Weir's books? Is she any good? I > was quite interested to read in that article that she was planning a > book on Isabella the She-Wolf of France. I've had an interest in > her for a long time, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way > of information around about her apart from 'Geez everyone hated > her sooooo much'. Definitely someone whose historical character > needs reclaiming. Then again maybe she really was very nasty. > But the other books I've seen in the shop by Alison Weir have > been very expensive, and I wouldn't like to throw away that > cash and have a stinker on my hands. > > Claire > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 11:58:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FFw4qa025583 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:58:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FFxLcf002168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FFxJQT015374; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:59:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FFxGQT015329 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip79.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.79]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8875F6DA48 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:59:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:55:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Effigy corset of Westminster Abbey Message-ID: <3E9BC916.11644.989B6CB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000701c3035a$0b08c550$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I saw the effigy corset in Westminster Abbey and i looked very close > to it from all angels. And i would say, as it is a real Elizabethan > corset, that it could have ben designed to go with a wheel > farthingale. The long busked frontpiece, would ideally lye on top of > the hoop and the eylet holes on top of all the tabs, would secure the > wheel. The busk would press down the hoop so that it gets the > fashionable tilt. Another hint, that the wheelfarthingale could be a > real thing!!! But they could also be used to secure a petticoat (just like similar ones on mens doublets secure the breeches.) So, it's really not evidence in either direction for a wheel farthingale. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 15:19:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FJJJqa026036 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:19:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FJHlcf025121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:17:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FJHiDb011971; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:17:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FJHeDb011921 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:17:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.170]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A7A4F4800BD for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:17:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001b01c30383$c00ef270$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:18:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] effigy corset at Westminster Abbey X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But they could also be used to secure a petticoat (just like similar ones on mens doublets secure the breeches.) So, it's really not evidence in either direction for a wheel farthingale. Kat This is true, and you are right it can never be proved. But i say that i have no doubts about it any more. Also some wooden figures i saw inside the Abbey convinsed me about this, because i saw traces of sharp edges. And i would say it would not be nescesary to secure skirts to the corset, when it has the waist at its natural place. Why should this be nescesary? The breeches you refer to, isnt that a little later, when the men wore their trousers higher? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 16:49:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FKnlqa026295 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:49:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FKl2cf004994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FKkx16019174; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FKku16019066 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003041520465005100ne0c9e>; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:46:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3E9C6FBD.3050804@fenris.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:46:53 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] question about gabardine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I gathered the following information about gabardine from the websites given below. "GABARDINE: A firm, durable, warp-faced cloth, showing a decided twill line, usually a 45° or 63° right-hand twill." http://www.vectranfiber.com/PDF/fiberdictionaryG.pdf. "A Tightly Woven Durable Twill, Usually 2x2 Right Handed, With A Distinct Twill Line" http://www.fibre2fashion.com/GLOSSARY/glossary7.htm Is this a good def. of gabardine (for instance, worsted wool gabardine as sold in fabric stores)? Can I assume that this weave of fabric existed in 16th century Italy? (in wool, of course) thanks liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 17:01:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FL1Sqa026357 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FKxkcf006353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FKxjqk004103; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:59:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FKxfqk004044 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.170]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1527C26293B for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:59:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003901c30392$033f1440$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <08249A12.6C612F94.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More from England Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:00:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. This is right, and i took some photos there. But i was very very disapointed because it was the same costumes on display as last time, wich was about 5 years ago. Why in heavens name, dont they take out some new costumes once in a while? now where they are so proud about being the outstanding museum in the world with one of the largest collections? It was a disapointment to go there! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:35 AM Subject: [h-cost] More from England > For those of you interested, The Costume Museum at Bath has started allowing photography. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 17:14:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLE7qa026393 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLCxcf007732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:12:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLCwqk013907; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLCsqk013848 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-005scfairp0213.dialsprint.net ([63.184.232.213] helo=faucet.net) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 195XjZ-0005hS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:12:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3E9C83C8.EB8825BD@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:12:24 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset at Westminster Abbey References: <001b01c30383$c00ef270$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > And i would say it would not be nescesary to secure skirts to the corset, > when it has the waist at its natural place. Why should this be nescesary? I will not even begin to discuss the wheel farthingale, but I can speak to the convenience of having one's skirts tied to one's corset. In my case, my conical or Spanish farthingale is tied to my corset, and the skirts of all the layers above are thus supported. Without that, the weight of the skirts makes the farthingale itself slide down just a bit and thus all that weight presses down on my hips and lower back, which is very uncomfortable and gave me back pain. I would like to note that I have a well-defined waist with a definite flare to the hips, so it's not a problem of body structure. Just my personal experience, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 17:31:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLVMqa026438 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLUMcf009613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLULqk027020; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:30:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FLUGqk026941 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20951 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:48:35 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:48:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset at Westminster Abbey In-Reply-To: <3E9C83C8.EB8825BD@faucet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > And i would say it would not be nescesary to secure skirts to the corset, > > when it has the waist at its natural place. Why should this be nescesary? > > I will not even begin to discuss the wheel farthingale, but I can speak > to the convenience of having one's skirts tied to one's corset. In my > case, my conical or Spanish farthingale is tied to my corset, and the > skirts of all the layers above are thus supported. I also attach my large, roll-shaped French farthingale to my corset. The length and placement of the ties helps me adjust the tilt to my preference and comfort, and there's no question of whether the farthingale will slide or twist to one side or another. This may not be necessary with smaller or different-shaped rolls, but for the structured one I have that produces a "wheel" silhouette, it definitely helps.. (My skirt is not attached to the corset, but I have since realized it would work better if it were attached to something -- in my case, probably the bodice -- or just sewn in one with the bodice.) There's certainly some structure, called a French farthingale, that creates the wheel-shape. Some of us disagree about what that structure might be, but I don't think anyone would disagree that it's probably attached to the corset. So, I don't think the presence of tabs or eyelets tells us much about what the farthingale looks like or how it is made, only that there was something there. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 18:41:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FMfdqa026954 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:41:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FMeEcf016954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FMeAb5017276; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:40:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail005.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail005.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FMe1b5017142 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h3FMdvo15385 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:39:58 +1000 Message-ID: <003301c303a0$41b7a170$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com><41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <010a01c302f9$6d743370$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Subject: [h-cost] A Titanic Evening Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:42:12 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For anyone who isn't on LJ Dressdiaries, I wore my titanic dress on the weekend. To me it looks rather bland because I know how much bead work there is to finish, but other than that I'm happy with the result (just my hair wouldn't do what it was told to). Photos can be seen on my webpage. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 19:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNiIqa027153 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:44:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNgRcf022282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNgQK6023132; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNgMK6023033 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.63.1b83bc60 (3980) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:41:59 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <63.1b83bc60.2bcdf2c7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:41:59 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] The Possibilities of a Social (Dress) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, the silk for my Friday Social dress finally arrived today. I need to pleat it (Mariano Fortuny style, wee!), cut out the pieces, make it, and hem it, all by 4am on Friday so that I can get on the plane and wear it on Friday night. Of course, if the hem isn't completely done I won't cry, since I'll have two hours before programming starts to finish it And, fortunately for my sanity...no zipper! It's a slip-on. My parents want me to give myself a break...but I told them that my "break" is CostumeCon, where I get to wear all my fun costumes! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 19:51:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNpFqa027208 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNo4cf022812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNo3K6027500; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNnvK6027456 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:49:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip204.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.204]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40236F250 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:49:54 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:49:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset at Westminster Abbey Message-ID: <3E9C3827.26232.B3B9039@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001b01c30383$c00ef270$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is true, and you are right it can never be proved. > But i say that i have no doubts about it any more. Also some wooden > figures i saw inside the Abbey convinsed me about this, because i saw > traces of sharp edges. And i would say it would not be nescesary to > secure skirts to the corset, when it has the waist at its natural > place. Why should this be nescesary? The breeches you refer to, isnt > that a little later, when the men wore their trousers higher? Precisely the same time period as the effigy corset (and even before and after). One of the problems with skirts (and doublets) is that they tend to separate at the waist if they are not secured. You get something known as "gaposis" (play on words because of the gap between them, where the shirt or skin are seen in too large a quantity.) They don't have to be high waisted for it to happen. (Consider the ultimate modern gaposis: plumbers crack.) There are ways of doing those skirts (which definitely existed) the only question being "what was underneath? bolster or boned wheel?" A good argument can be made for both and can end up with exactly the same shapes as what you see on the various tomb sculptures. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 19:55:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNtUqa027226 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNsNcf023130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNsMK6029975; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNsJK6029929 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h3FNsHlJ008545 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.196] (tnt-1-260.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.196]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3FNsDIW008404 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3E9C6FBD.3050804@fenris.net> References: <3E9C6FBD.3050804@fenris.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:47:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about gabardine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3FNsJK6029929 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:46 PM -0700 4/15/03, Elizabeth Young wrote: >I gathered the following information about gabardine from the >websites given below. > >"GABARDINE: A firm, durable, warp-faced cloth, showing a >decided twill line, usually a 45° or 63° right-hand twill." >http://www.vectranfiber.com/PDF/fiberdictionaryG.pdf. > >"A Tightly Woven Durable Twill, Usually 2x2 Right Handed, With A >Distinct Twill Line" >http://www.fibre2fashion.com/GLOSSARY/glossary7.htm > >Is this a good def. of gabardine (for instance, worsted wool >gabardine as sold in fabric stores)? >Can I assume that this weave of fabric existed in 16th century >Italy? (in wool, of course) I tend to feel that the extremely smooth tight twist of the yarn in modern gabardines is likely to be significantly different from period twills, but I confess that this is a bit more of a gut-level esthetic judgement than a well-researched professional opinion. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 22:59:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G2xZqa027740 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:59:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G2wScf008510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:58:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G2wPnG026379; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G2wNnG026339 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m177.in-tch.com [216.166.191.177]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3G2eTX14950 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3E9CC716.999AAEB0@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:59:34 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alison Weir? was Article on historical films, was 100%silkvelvet? References: <3E9C255D.4006396C@bigpond.com> <002b01c3035d$095393e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't that what spouses are for, though? --sue, who had to schlepp her own book-crammed suitcases.... Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >At Berwick Street i baught silk in Cloth House nr. 98 > Berwick Street, so i was a little worried about the weight of my trunk, when > i was going back, but Leif didnt have as much as i did, so it went ok. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 15 23:04:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G34kqa027770 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:04:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G33hcf008905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:03:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G33cnG028618; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3G33ZnG028608 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:03:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-000-016.jps.net ([216.119.0.16] helo=pavilion) by puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 195dCw-000057-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:03:35 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01c303c6$6d242880$100077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:15:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: 9c05c41117f01b301aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79293a0807c960e96d5f82425352735f04350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] attaching tops to bottoms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3G34kqa027770 Status: RO I made a musketeer outfit for my son to fence in. The doublet has holes at the waist all around with points that feed through them and attach to the waist of the "trunk hose" or "breeches". It looks fabulous but it's a real pain!!! I found that I had to have my son sit down for me to get the proper length for the points in the back otherwise if I tie them standing up, he can't really sit down. Too much tension is created between the doublet/point/hose. That portion of the body must lengthen a great deal when one sits down. Has anyone else experienced this? I ended up having the points near his middle back decorative only. With skirts I can see the advantage, but garments with crotches are a whole other story. Lisa Sinervo Threadneedle St. Clothiers www.ThreadneedleSt.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 08:52:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GCq3qa031494 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:52:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GCokcf011664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:50:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GCoajo003012; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GCoWjo002976 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:50:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3GCoVp26945.; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:50:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:50:30 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:50:04 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures from Bath 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3GCoWjo002976 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What lovely pictures, Bjarne and Stevie! Hope you are feeling better after your spell in hospital, Stevie. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 10:15:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GEFZqa031654 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:15:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GEELcf018189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GEEEhY010457; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GEDwhY010235 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.112.21b5a3e0 (17526) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:13:44 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <112.21b5a3e0.2bcebf18@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:13:44 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Queen Ann Dress....again X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to bother y'all but I have lost the address for the JPG of that beautimus maximus Jacobean gown Bjarne is going to whip up [I make it sound oh so easy, don't I?] Would someone be so kind as to repost it so I can show it to all my friends? Thanx! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 13:11:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GHBlqa032470 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:11:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GHA7cf007022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GH9vdt010084; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GH9rdt009957 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.f9.2c2194c0 (30950) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:09:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:09:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All! I am looking for a European (Preferably English/British Empire) book of Etiquette for the Early Victorian Era. Does anyone who is into antique books have any titles for me? Thanks, Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 13:36:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GHafqa032596 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:36:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GHZRcf009709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GHZKdt029926; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GHZHdt029855 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:35:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003041617351100200h80j7e>; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:35:11 +0000 Message-ID: <033001c3043e$8a26d4f0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:35:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do not have any titles for you but I have seen that etiquette for this time period to be a part of the magazines and sewing books. Some are in pamphlets for traveling and such. You may want to look in that direction as well. Ches ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 12:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic > Greetings All! > > I am looking for a European (Preferably English/British Empire) book of > Etiquette for the Early Victorian Era. Does anyone who is into antique books > have any titles for me? > > Thanks, > Kit > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 14:50:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GIofqa000330 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:50:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GInTcf017650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GInLJG024614; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GInIJG024514 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:49:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2BD2CAA006C; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:36:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c30448$75a65fa0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:46:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit, I have about 18 Etiquette Books but only 2 with London editors and only one for your time period. Sorry. Title: "The Habits of Good Society", Cassel,Petter and Galpin. Year? but before 1900. It gives a section on the differences between England and the Continent. My favorite however is "Putnams", 1913. Fun section on dealing with"the servant problem". I do have about 6-8 American manners before the twentieth century. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic > Greetings All! > > I am looking for a European (Preferably English/British Empire) book of > Etiquette for the Early Victorian Era. Does anyone who is into antique books > have any titles for me? > > Thanks, > Kit > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 16:01:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GK1Rqa000577 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:01:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GJxncf023571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GJxgwJ009230; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-85.apple.com [17.250.248.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GJxdwJ009190 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:59:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h3GJxdfS016744 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) byid HDGCVE00.1H1 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:59:38 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:59:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic From: Agnes Gawne To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000901c30448$75a65fa0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a really interesting question and surprisingly relevant if we want to behave correctly when we are wearing our period costumes. Didn't someone make a comment that Bjarne was not only the best dressed 18th C man at Bath but also the best behaved? I didn't really have an answer to this question but it made me think about it so I looked up in the UW library here at work and found these three listings, the first one has been re-printed by Rob Shep. Author Lady of distinction Title The mirror of the graces, or, The English lady's costume [microform] : combining and harmonizing taste and judgment, elegance and grace, modesty, simplicity, and economy, with fashion in dress ... with useful advice on female accomplishments, politeness and manners ... / by a lady of distinction Pub info New-York : I. Riley, 1813 ([New York] : C. Wiley) Author Wildeblood, Joan, 1904- Title The polite world; a guide to English manners and deportment from the thirteenth to the nineteenth century [by] Joan Wildeblood and Peter Brinson Pub info London, New York, Oxford University Press, 1965 Author St. George, E. A. W Title The descent of manners : etiquette, rules & the Victorians / Andrew St. George Pub info London : Chatto & Windus, 1993 Bibliography Includes bibliographical references (p. 290-321) and index LC SUBJECTS Etiquette -- Great Britain -- History -- 19th century Then I looked in the Library of Congress and found lots more: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dicatlg.html links to a number of 19th C dance manuals that have etiquette guides included. Here's a list of the things that came up under a LOC search for etiquette + Great Britain + 19th C: (1836). The laws of etiquette; or, Short rules and reflections for conduct in society. Philadelphia,, Carey Lea and Blanchard. (1841). The Ball-room instructer (sic) ; containing a complete description of cotillons and other popular dances, with illustrations. New York,, Huestis & Craft. (1866). The Ball-room guide. With coloured plates. London,, F. Warne and Co. (1872). Ball-room dancing without a master, and complete guide to the etiquette, toilet, dress and management of the ball-room; with all the principal dances in popular use. New York,, Hurst & Co. Adjaye, J. K. (1984). Diplomacy and diplomats in nineteenth century Asante. Lanham, MD, University Press of America. Adjaye, J. K. (1996). Diplomacy & diplomats in nineteenth century Asante. Trenton, NJ, Africa World Press. Aldrich, E. (1991). From the ballroom to hell : grace and folly in nineteenth-century dance. Evanston, Ill., Northwestern University Press. American Imprint Collection (Library of Congress) (1798). The gentleman & lady's companion : containing the newest cotillions and country dances, to which is added, instances of ill manners, to be carefully avoided by youth of both sexes. Norwich, Printed by J. Trumbull. Bennett, E. (1887). Amenities of social life. By Edward Bennett. London,, E. Stock. Brookes, L. D. G. (1867). Brookes on modern dancing, containing a full description of all dances, as practised in the ball room and at private parties, together with an essay on etiquette. New York, The author. De Garmo, W. B. (1865). The prompter: containing full descriptions of all the quadrilles, figures of the German cotillon, etc. Designed for the assistance of the pupils of Wm. B. De Garmo. New York,, Raymond & Caulon Printers. De Garmo, W. B. (1875). The dance of society: a critical analysis of all the standard quadrilles, round dances, 102 figures of le cotillon ("the German"), &c., including dissertations upon time and its accentuation, carriage, style, and other relative matter. New York,, W. A. Pond & Co. Ferrero, E. (1859). The art of dancing, historically illustrated. To which is added a few hints on etiquette; also, the figures, music, and necessary instruction for the performance of the most modern and approved dances, as executed at the private academies of the author. New York,, The author. Furnivall, F. J. (1868). Early English meals and manners. London,, Pub. by H. Milford Oxford university press. Greville, B. V. G. (1892). The gentlewoman in society. London,, Henry and co. Halliwell-Phillipps, J. O. and British Museum (1841). The boke of curtasye, an English poem of the fourteenth century. Hillgrove, T. (1857). The scholars' companion and ball-room vade mecum, comprising a description of all the principal dances ... With hints and instructions respecting toilet, deportment, &c., &c. New York,, T. R. Turnbull & Co. Printers. Howe, E. (1858). Howe's complete ball-room hand book, containing upwards of three hundred dances, including all the latest and most fashionable dances ... with elegant illustrations, and full explanation and every variety of the latest and most approved figures, and calls for the different changes, and rules on deportment and the toilet, and the etiquette of dancing. Boston,, Ditson & Co. Howe, E. (1862). American dancing master, and ball-room prompter: containing about five hundred dances including all the latest and most fashionable ... with elegant illustrations, and full explanation and every variety of the latest and most approved figures, and calls for the different changes, and rules on deportment and the toilet, and the etiquette of dancing. Boston,, E. Howe. Kasson, J. F. (1990). Rudeness & civility : manners in nineteenth-century urban America. New York, Hill and Wang. Lady of, d. (1997). Regency etiquette : the mirror of graces (1811). Mendocino, CA Fort Bragg, CA, R.L. Shep ; Distributed by R.L. Shep Publications. Radestock, R. (1877). The royal ball-room guide and etiquette of the drawing-room, containing the newest and most elegant dances and a short history of dancing. London,, W. Walker and Sons. Ransone, L. J. (1888). "Good form" in England. New York,, D. Appleton and company. Reilley, E. B. (1870). The amateur's vademecum. A practical treatise on the art of dancing. Philadelphia,, J. Nicholas Printer. Rivers, C. H. (1885). A full description of modern dances. Brooklyn. Rowe, G. H. (1878). The prompter's own book; or, Rowe's calls for the ball room. Contains all the latest and best calls necessary for an all night party. Boston,, G. H. Rowe. Russell, J. and Andrew, L. (1868). The boke of nurture folowyng Englondis gise. Segar, F. (1868). The schoole of vertue, and booke of good nourture for chyldren, and youth to learne theyr dutie by. London,. Sherwood, M. E. W. (1887). Manners and social usages. New York,, Harper & Brothers. Thornwell, E. and Joseph Meredith Toner Collection (Library of Congress) (1857). The lady's guide to perfect gentility, in manners, dress, and conversation ... also a useful instructor in letter writing, toilet preparations, fancy needlework, millinery, dressmaking, care of wardrobe, the hair, teeth, hands, lips, complexion, etc. New York,, Derby & Jackson. Wildeblood, J. (1973). The polite world; a guide to the deportment of the English in former times. London,, Davis-Poynter. Wildeblood, J. and Brinson, P. (1965). The polite world; a guide to English manners and deportment from the thirteenth to the nineteenth century. London, New York,, Oxford University Press. Wilson, T. (1808). An analysis of country dancing: wherein are displayed all the figures ever used in country dances, in a way so easy and familiar, that persons of the meanest capacity may in a short time acquire (without the aid of a master) a complete knowledge of that rational and polite amusement. To which are added, instructions for dancing some entire new reels; together with the rules, regulations, and complete etiquette of the ball room. London,, Printed by W. Calvert to be had to Mr. Dutton etc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 16:31:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKVMqa000681 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKU5cf026945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKU4wJ002939; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKU0wJ002873 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f21.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.33]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D384147FF89 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:26:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002401c3044e$2cc93590$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <112.21b5a3e0.2bcebf18@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Ann Dress....again Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:27:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. The url. for the big picture is here: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/uploads//jpg/BHC4251.jpg I especially like the choise of colours. Right now i am planning, because after Bath i am hooked on suits :-) embroidering a new suit on the silk i baught in London. Very narrow striped blue silk, and 2 matching colours of a lighter blue and a mouse grey striped silk. I think i want to make a combination of silverlace and embroidery with chenille threads. So, Queen Anne, must wait a little................. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 4:13 PM Subject: [h-cost] Queen Ann Dress....again > Sorry to bother y'all but I have lost the address for the JPG of that > beautimus maximus Jacobean gown Bjarne is going to whip up [I make it sound > oh so easy, don't I?] > > Would someone be so kind as to repost it so I can show it to all my friends? > > Thanx! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 16:31:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKVRqa000684 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:31:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKRAd7026607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GK2EwJ011143; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3GK1bwJ010840 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:01:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14075 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2003 19:54:56 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2003 19:54:56 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-182.sonic.net [209.148.112.182]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3GJstX31576 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:54:55 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030416125400.00af31e8@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:56:05 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lavolta Press Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] This offer might interest some clothing businesses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Entrepreneur has a special offer on a number of their business titles. You can get them by paying $6.95 for shipping the first book and $2.95 for each additional book, or $32 for a bundle of 10 books. You can choose one of their bundles or make your own by combining the titles of your choice. You can check it out at http://www.freebks.com/ Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 16:51:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKpeqa000740 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:51:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKmZcf028927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKmXwJ016306; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:48:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKmQwJ016220 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 195tpR-000EQV-0W; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:48:25 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:47:09 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] attaching tops to bottoms References: <002b01c303c6$6d242880$100077d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002b01c303c6$6d242880$100077d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was a discussion on the list (probably over a year ago) about the problem with 15th century hose always ripping in the crotch when your man goes and fights in them. IIRC, one of the solutions proposed was not tying the points at the back, and tying those at the sides loosely. Even as I'm sitting here, the back waist of my trousers is pulling away and down - it's just anatomy. Jean Lisa Sinervo wrote >I made a musketeer outfit for my son to fence in. The doublet has >holes at the waist all around with points that feed through them and >attach to the waist of the "trunk hose" or "breeches". It looks >fabulous but it's a real pain!!! I found that I had to have my son sit >down for me to get the proper length for the points in the back >otherwise if I tie them standing up, he can't really sit down. Too >much tension is created between the doublet/point/hose. That portion >of the body must lengthen a great deal when one sits down. Has anyone >else experienced this? I ended up having the points near his middle >back decorative only. > >With skirts I can see the advantage, but garments with crotches are a >whole other story. > > >Lisa Sinervo >Threadneedle St. Clothiers >www.ThreadneedleSt.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 16:52:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKqoqa000746 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:52:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKnKcf029051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKnJwJ016850; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKmQwJ016219 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 195tpR-000EQV-0W; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:48:25 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:47:09 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] attaching tops to bottoms References: <002b01c303c6$6d242880$100077d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002b01c303c6$6d242880$100077d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was a discussion on the list (probably over a year ago) about the problem with 15th century hose always ripping in the crotch when your man goes and fights in them. IIRC, one of the solutions proposed was not tying the points at the back, and tying those at the sides loosely. Even as I'm sitting here, the back waist of my trousers is pulling away and down - it's just anatomy. Jean Lisa Sinervo wrote >I made a musketeer outfit for my son to fence in. The doublet has >holes at the waist all around with points that feed through them and >attach to the waist of the "trunk hose" or "breeches". It looks >fabulous but it's a real pain!!! I found that I had to have my son sit >down for me to get the proper length for the points in the back >otherwise if I tie them standing up, he can't really sit down. Too >much tension is created between the doublet/point/hose. That portion >of the body must lengthen a great deal when one sits down. Has anyone >else experienced this? I ended up having the points near his middle >back decorative only. > >With skirts I can see the advantage, but garments with crotches are a >whole other story. > > >Lisa Sinervo >Threadneedle St. Clothiers >www.ThreadneedleSt.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 17:50:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GLo8qa000928 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:50:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKn2cf028973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKn1wJ016628; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GKmQwJ016215 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 195tpR-000EQU-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:48:25 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:37:14 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article on historical films, was 100% silk velvet? References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote >Interesting article - I feel this merits a new thread! > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> duchess@bustles-and-bows.co.uk 04/14/03 11:42am >>> >I've seen a great deal of discussion on the subject of films and their >accuracy, albeit from the aspect of how correct the costumes are. I >therefore think that many of you may be interested in an article by Alison >Weir that appeared in The Scotsman, a web based magazine for Scotland: > >http://news.scotsman.com/features.cfm?id=424752003 > >It mainly talks about accuracy from a historical viewpoint but I think you >will still find it a fascinating read, I know I did. > >Lissa > >PS I'm not from Scotland myself, neither do I lived there. > I do! In case anyone should want to cite it, this is actually the online edition of The Scotsman newspaper, which is sort of the equivalent of The Times in Scotland. -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 19:20:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNKOqa001169 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:20:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNJKcf014542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNJGmW000589; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:19:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNJBmW000545 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A4EE7BFB005E; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:19:10 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4EE14CC00E6; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:19:10 -0500 Message-ID: <006301c3046e$654a7d00$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:17:48 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit, We are in the process of putting London and Fashion Fashion Reports from an 1838 British fashion magazine. It covers the month July-Dec. We are also putting online etiquette books online for 1882 and 1923. Interesting stuff! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic > Greetings All! > > I am looking for a European (Preferably English/British Empire) book of > Etiquette for the Early Victorian Era. Does anyone who is into antique books > have any titles for me? > > Thanks, > Kit > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 19:31:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNVuqa001202 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:31:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNUMcf015538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNULmW007835; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:30:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3GNUImW007779 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:30:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail08.syd.optusnet.com.au (webmail08.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.125])h3GNUC924306 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:30:12 +1000 Message-Id: <200304162330.h3GNUC924306@mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [152.91.9.46] as user baralier@optusnet.com.au by webmail.optusnet.com.au with HTTP; From: Baralier To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:30:12 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am looking for a European (Preferably English/British Empire) book > of Etiquette for the Early Victorian Era. Does anyone who is into > antique books have any titles for me? One of my personal favourites are "Manner for Men" & "Manners for Women" (with a third volume called "What shall I Write?") by a Mrs Humphreys. They're both late 19thC rather than early. While it's not strictly an etiquette guide for early 19th C “What Jane Austin Ate & Charles Dickens Knew” by Daniel Poole covers a huge amount of reference material including appropriate behaviour. It also has a fairly decent bibliography. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 22:59:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H2xvqa001797 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:59:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H2wWcf029898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H2wSXJ019675; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H2wPXJ019658 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-028scfairp0408.dialsprint.net ([63.179.113.154] helo=faucet.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 195zbT-0006QO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:58:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3E9E2640.75812BF1@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:57:53 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, Agnes, what an amazing list! _From the Ballroom to Hell: Grace and Folly in Nineteenth-Century Dance_ by Elizabeth Aldrich (1991; ISBN 0-8101-0912-3 or 0-8101-0913-1 for paperback) has excerpts from a number of 19th-century dance and ettiquette manuals and an annotated bibliography of them in the back. To give you an idea of the contents, the chapters are: I. Dancing, the Most Enchanting of Human Amusements II. Thoughts on Society III. Fashion IV. The Body: Detractions from and Complements Thereto (hygiene, health, and makeup) V. The Body: Composed and Harmonious (deportment, carriage, and conversation) VI. Grace and Folly in the Ballroom VII. Music and Musicians VIII. Dances and Party Games In her bibliography, titles relevant to your search include: _The Young Lady's Book, a Manual of Elegant Recreations, Exercises, and Pursuits_ an 1830 American edition of a work published in Britian in 1829 and 1832. _The Habits of Good Society: A Handbook for Ladies and Gentlemen_, published in England in 1859 and America in 1860 and seventeen more times beofre 1890! Also published as "The Ladies' and Gentlemen's Etiquette Book of the Best Society" and "Sensible Etiquette and Good Manners of the Best Society" _The Handbook of Etiquette: Being a Complete Guide to the Usages of Polite Society_ London, 1860. _Mixing in Society. A Complete Manual of Manners, by the Right Hon. Countess of **_ published in London and New York, 1860. There are also several English dancing manuals listed plus one on fashion and one on exercise. (There are plenty of manuals published in New York listed, for anyone who's looking into American etiquette.) This book might be easier to lay hands on than some of the originals. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 16 23:02:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H320qa001808 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:02:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H30ncf000130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H30nXJ020643; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H30kXJ020621 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2157.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.157]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h3H31pGj029008 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:01:52 -0400 Message-ID: <3E9E1820.A9846484@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:57:37 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] attaching tops to bottoms References: <002b01c303c6$6d242880$100077d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I can't guarantee that this is the answer that you are looking for, or even if this answers your question, but the waistline on men's clothing of the 15th through 17th Cents. changed a bit over time. With the 15th Cent. hose thing, the waistline rode fairly low (feels like a kind of permanent "plumber's crack" when you untie the back points). By the early/mid 17th Cent. the waistline had risen almost up to the bottom of the sternum (look at the painting of Henri II of Lorraine by van Dyck and some of the Abraham Bosse engravings). If you make the breeches loose enough in the crotch, they can ride up enough to be tied in at the (high, by modern standards) waist. I have a 1620s/30s suit attached by hooks and eyes (which I copied from an original in my artifact collection, the hook, that is, not the suit). The eyes in the doublet are at the tab level, and I am finding that I will have to raise them a bit (and the tabs are sitting at about the point of my floating ribs). This gives the silhouette that I have seen in late 16th/early 17th Cent. paintings. My breeches are full though, not like the "French" style (fairly tight). I have only done one pair like that. and they need to be not only cut differently in the crotch, but in the rear also (a little more fullness, but that comes with the crotch fullness). Use the basic cut in Nora Waugh's "Cut of Men's Clothes", and play with it to fit. Also, you might want to look at Drea's site, as there are some Spanish tailoring manuals that might show alternate fit. Also, there are the hidden attachment elements as shown in JA to consider. I would recommend full breeches, though, for a fencing garment. The crotch is cut on an angle, and the legs are splayed out in an inverted "v" shape (hence the term "breeches Bible" for the English Bible of the Commonwealth, the shape of the conjoined shields of England and Ireland, the Commonwealth arms on the title page, making the pattern of a pair of breeches laid out on a flat surface). If you need a picture, send me a note. Hope this helps, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 00:42:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H4gIqa001992 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 00:42:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H4fFcf006768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:41:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H4fDRI003011; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H4f7RI002956 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:41:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37BE77A898 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 75764-01 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-185-186.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.185.186]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D517A8A6 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:41:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [h-cost] menstrual history museum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this topic comes up a lot, but I hadn't seen this on the list before: From the Museum of Menstruation: "What did European and American Women use in the past?" http://www.mum.org/pastgerm.htm He could probably use some help with the underwear aspect of it, but he's got some cool catalog pages in there, and some interesting patterns for pads and a "sanitary apron" that's just a fantastic idea ;) .heather. (be warned - the site design is pretty bad, though) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 01:03:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H53Eqa002038 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H52Bcf007990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:02:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H52Au1011024; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H525u2010976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3H525sC008901 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:02:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h3H523FE008899 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:02:03 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:02:02 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304170102.02927.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 16 April 2003 03:59 pm, Agnes Gawne wrote: > This is a really interesting question and surprisingly relevant if we want > to behave correctly when we are wearing our period costumes. Didn't > someone make a comment that Bjarne was not only the best dressed 18th C man > at Bath but also the best behaved? An excellent point, Agnes. Since we were talking about the accuracy of historically-based movies in another thread, let me bring up an example from a movie not set in the modern period of how not knowing how to wear period costume can be devastating. In the movie "Anna and the King" starring Jodie Foster as Anna (and Chow Yun Fat as the King), Foster's costumes seemed to me to be correct, but she has *no* concept of how to move properly in a hoop skirt (the skirt always swung too far when she moved at more than a very slow speed). The only shots featuring her that were convincing were those that only showed her above the waist.... -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 01:57:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H5v2qa002088 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:57:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H5u2cf010825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H5u1fj002554; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H5txfj002532 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A1EE4699020E; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 00:55:58 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1EF1A3A00E6; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 00:55:59 -0500 Message-ID: <010601c304a5$bc65a9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304170102.02927.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:53:56 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Agnes and Cathy, This is the very reason we are putting the etiquette books online. It is one thing to dress the part but acting it is another thing. There were reasons for social rules. Different things influenced the way a person behaved. Since our site is frequented by the crews for film and theater, I think these books online will really help them. Currently, we are focusing on the funerals, weddings, and household staff. Both years' online book does include appropriate dress but also the mannerism. We have the sections of the books typed. We need to code the webpages. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 04:11:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8B7qa008596 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:11:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H89mcf017734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H89irs021902; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H89crs021872 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:09:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5910047FF67 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:09:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c304b8$d521edd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:10:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Etiqette X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. In London i went to Kensington Pallace, and for those of you who soon goes to England i warmly recoments it. The way they had put up how 2 ladies and a gentleman was dressing to be ready for a presentation at court. It was set for the early 20ies, but a little further on, they showed the presentation in 1903 sourroundings. Ladies and Gentlemens dress was exquisite. As late as 1903 the fully embroidered suit in gold was still used. The more important you were, the more gold on the suit. One gentleman standing with the back towards you, had no gold on him because he did'nt have any titles, but his suit was oldfashioned and made of black silk. His back had a strange aplyed "thingie" on the neck arrea, and we were told that this had its origin from the bottomed wigs, even that wigs were no longer worn. ( the tail of the wig was put in a bag, so that the powder would not spoil the suit) They also had courtwear from my era, and i enjoyed it so much, 3 full embroidered suits and a large hoop dress. Then they had showed all the things you had to wear in a showcase, even the underwear. As for stockings, men used 2 pairs. One pair of cotton stockings and then a pair of silk over the cottons, to hide the hairy legs. A tailors shop was also shown, with all the gold threads, seaquins and threads needed to embroider a suit. I really wanted to bring the whole lot with me back, but i would be very unpopular if i did it, so i didnt. There were many beautifull rooms and they also showed the queens weddingdresses, from Victoria and onwards to some of Dianas dresses. Dont forget to go, if you get the chance............. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 04:26:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8Qnqa017161 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:26:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8PWcf018593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8PVrs027611; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:25:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8PRrs027598 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3H8PQp02171.; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:25:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:25:25 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:25:13 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] attaching tops to bottoms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3H8PRrs027598 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike T wrote: [snip] >>> The crotch is cut on an angle, and the legs are splayed out in an >inverted "v" shape (hence the term "breeches Bible" for the English Bible >of the Commonwealth, the shape of the conjoined shields of England and >Ireland, the Commonwealth arms on the title page, making the pattern of a >pair of breeches laid out on a flat surface). I've never heard that one before; I always understood the "Breeches Bible" was an edition that contained an oddity of translation whereby Adam & Eve are described as making "breeches" of fig leaves rather than the usual "aprons". A friend and I were shown a copy at St.David's Cathedral once. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 04:39:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8dTqa020878 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8cRcf019183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8cQrs002186; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3H8cNrs002166 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3H8cMp02866.; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:38:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:38:22 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:38:06 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiqette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3H8cNrs002166 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went to Kensington Palace many years ago, when the old London Museum, now incorporated into the Museum of London, was housed there. I remember seeing some royal ladies' dresses, including some of Queen Victoria's (tiny) and a lovely green Empire line dress of Princess Charlotte's (who would have been Queen instead of Victoria if she had lived; she died in childbirth in 1817). Those 18th-century style suits with the ribbon rosette at the back of the neck to simulate the ribbon on a wig are still worn by certain officials on ceremonial occasions such as the State Opening of Parliament. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 08:12:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCCkqa004541 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCBXcf029196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCBUQX012259; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCBRQX012210 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.106] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6FD3027006C; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:58:53 -0400 Message-ID: <005a01c304d9$5a439a20$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304170102.02927.cathy@thyrsus.com> <010601c304a5$bc65a9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:03:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of the more amusing topics for me has been the correct u se of gloves. I have been "told' that "a lady always prepares herself completely before leaving the house as one seen buttoning her gloves on the front steps may be considered a little fast." Another source points out " that if your hostess does not remove her gloves at the dining table, you are obliged to follow her example." Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic > Agnes and Cathy, > > This is the very reason we are putting the etiquette books online. It is > one thing to dress the part but acting it is another thing. There were > reasons for social rules. Different things influenced the way a person > behaved. > > Since our site is frequented by the crews for film and theater, I think > these books online will really help them. Currently, we are focusing on the > funerals, weddings, and household staff. Both years' online book does > include appropriate dress but also the mannerism. > > We have the sections of the books typed. We need to code the webpages. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 08:30:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCU2qa004568 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCT2cf000296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCT1QX018827; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HCSxQY018806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1968Vd-0001z3-00; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:28:57 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1968Vk-0000K1-00; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:29:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Lloyd Mitchell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic In-Reply-To: <005a01c304d9$5a439a20$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Historical Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >One of the more amusing topics for me has been the correct u se of gloves. I >have been "told' that "a lady always prepares herself completely before >leaving the house as one seen buttoning her gloves on the front steps may be >considered a little fast." Another source points out " that if your hostess >does not remove her gloves at the dining table, you are obliged to follow >her example." >Kathleen One of my favorite "use of gloves in movies" episodes is in "Amistad", Matthew McConaughey's character comes walking in, late for a formal dinner, carrying his gloves, and makes a formal point of putting his gloves on in order to eat. It's as if the gloves were there just for eating as he didn't arrive with them on. (I doubt they were going by the above suggestion of if your hostess leaves her gloves on you do to, or does that only apply to ladies anyway?) Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 09:17:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HDH5qa004677 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HDDlcf003369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HDDjru007039; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:13:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HDDfru006994 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.101] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A59331BA006C; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:01:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c304e2$012185c0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:05:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I missed this one! Perhaps the manners staff of the movie had read that very quote. It is my understanding that the 'gloves on rule' applied only to women; one was expected to wear gloves with formal dress. Men wore gloves only for dancing...unless the man was a servant. Gloves were worn by footmen on evening occasions. One of my surprise finds earlier in my collecting years was the discovery of a lump in the 'tail' of a coat of which I was contemplating replacing the lining . Investigation found the tail pocket which still harbored a LONG forgotten pair of dancing gloves. I can almost date 19th century tails by the change in pocket arrangements in men's wear. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Lloyd Mitchell" Cc: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > >One of the more amusing topics for me has been the correct u se of gloves. I > >have been "told' that "a lady always prepares herself completely before > >leaving the house as one seen buttoning her gloves on the front steps may be > >considered a little fast." Another source points out " that if your hostess > >does not remove her gloves at the dining table, you are obliged to follow > >her example." > >Kathleen > > One of my favorite "use of gloves in movies" episodes is in "Amistad", > Matthew McConaughey's character comes walking in, late for a formal > dinner, carrying his gloves, and makes a formal point of putting his > gloves on in order to eat. It's as if the gloves were there just for > eating as he didn't arrive with them on. (I doubt they were going by > the above suggestion of if your hostess leaves her gloves on you do to, > or does that only apply to ladies anyway?) > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 13:08:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HH8Wqa005239 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:08:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HH7Kcf027373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HH7Gaa006445; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HH7Caa006395 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 196Cqn-0003Kz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:07:05 -0700 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:07:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c30503$c5aa50e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030416125400.00af31e8@pop.sonic.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Medieval and Renaissance Beauty and Grooming Practices 1000-1600 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thought some of you might be interested in this book: Plucked, Shaved & Braided: Medieval and Renaissance Beauty and Grooming Practices 1000-1600 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/193006408X/ref=cm_wl_ovu-p g.1-pos.1/104-1138399-5771154?v=glance &coliid=IQMUDU7F6RRV8&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER Sg "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 18:55:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HMtgqa006363 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HMsXcf006000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HMsOeG024222; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3HMsKeG024108 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1d9.7a527f9 (1320) for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <1d9.7a527f9.2bd08a91@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:54:09 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] 11th hour costume con question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I thought this group might be the one to ask...is there any schedule anyone knows of yet for programming for costume con? I'm trying to meet up with some relatives in chicago and want to schedule things but have no idea what lecture/workshop happens when...any clues anyone? Thanks and cheers, Loren Dearborn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 21:36:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I1awqa006787 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I1Zlcf019468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I1Zjxd021709; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I1Zgxd021686 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6881880062; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:36:08 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A66D4E840230; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:35:41 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c3054a$a2780800$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:34:19 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Day of the Week Panties X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO VH1 is doing a TV show on the 1970s and has contacted me wanting to know if anyone has in stock the 1970s "day of the week" panties. They would even be happy to with a photo or ad. Anyone who has this item or info please contact me off list at penny@costumegallery.com Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 17 23:07:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I37Rqa007023 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I36Ncf025386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I36HEs003739; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3I36EEs003707 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty2103.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.103]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h3I37MGj006085 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:07:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3E9F6AF9.CE2DE799@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:03:22 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] attaching tops to bottoms References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Kate, I am not familiar with the text of the Commonwealth Bible vis a vis the earlier Geneva or King James. I was always told that the Commonwealth was a differently annotated Geneva, but I don't know. I will try and locate the source of the "breeches" thing as regards the pattern, but I have had this in my mind for years. I'll also check my Geneva and KJ for any variations in Genesis that I can report. Mike T. > > > I've never heard that one before; I always understood the "Breeches Bible" was an edition that contained an oddity of translation whereby Adam & Eve are described as making "breeches" of fig leaves rather than the usual "aprons". A friend and I were shown a copy at St.David's Cathedral once. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 08:41:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ICfFqa010063 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:41:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ICaLcf024048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:36:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ICaHBh000499; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.iskon.hr (mail.iskon.hr [213.191.128.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3ICaBBh000462 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 551 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2003 14:35:45 +0200 Received: from st01-239.dialin.iskon.hr (HELO o5q7t5.public.srce.hr) (213.202.66.240) by mail.iskon.hr with SMTP; 18 Apr 2003 14:35:45 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030418142853.03f41e30@jagor.srce.hr> X-Sender: jkale@public.srce.hr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:37:25 +0200 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Jadran Kale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] book descr.: Muzzarelli X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli Guardaroba medievale Medieval Wardrobe 1999, pp. 380 This volume describes the history of clothing in the Middle Ages, both in its material nature and in its social uses, the meanings which society then attributed to garments. On the basis of notaries' inventories, shopping lists and other documents of the era, the author illustrates - in a series of authentic cases - the composition of men and women's medieval wardrobes. Types and quantities of attire reveal the various social groups' characteristics. Vivid descriptions allow the reader to experience the processes concerning the production and commerce of clothes, from the shops of craftsmen (dyers, silk-weavers, tanners, shoemakers, tailors) to garment vendors and haberdashers. Special emphasis is placed on the social use of dress: how people dressed on different occasions, how clothes confirmed social status differences, and how the Church and the law attempted (with little success) to place limits on luxury. Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli, a historian of the middle ages, teaches History of the City in the Faculty of Letters and Philosophy at the University of Bologna. http://www.mulino.it/edizioni/foreign_rights/backlist/history/muzza.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 10:20:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IEKjqa010332 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IEFWcf029777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:15:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IEFVHu011608; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IEFTHu011591 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:15:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 196WeF-0002MW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 07:15:27 -0700 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 07:15:24 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c305b4$f5ff3060$6401a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] FW: [GermanRenCostume] Bildindex images-very cool stuff-check it out! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3IEKjqa010332 Status: RO Katherine Barich on the German Ren yahoo group did all the leg work for these, but I thought as many folks as possible should benefit from them. They are very cool! Sg "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates -----Original Message----- From: Katherine Barich [mailto:wheezul@canby.com] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:41 PM To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com Subject: [GermanRenCostume] Bildindex images Hi guys, I was surfing and collecting links from the Bildindex Orte search and thought I would share some 16th century stuff to anyone inclined to point and click. Katherine Nürnberg Belt with knife and sheath http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/09/a/MI07909d12a.jpg Belt buckle 1586-1600 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/09/b/MI07909d14b.jpg Belt link 1586-1600 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/09/b/MI07909e01b.jpg Pelican pendant 1486-1500 and St. George pendant 1501-1515 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/08/b/MI07908e10b.jpg Gilded silver beads and faceted amethyst beads circa 1500 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/08/b/MI07908e11b.jpg St Hubert pendant 1501-1515 gilded silver, coral and malachite http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/08/b/MI07908e14b.jpg Necklace 1530-1540 part of the Nürnberg bridal jewelry http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/08/b/MI07908f11b.jpg Chain necklaces 1551 - 1600 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/08/b/MI07908f12b.jpg Necklace 1586 - 1600 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/08/b/MI07908g05b.jpg Agate and Silver pendant 1586-1600 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/08/b/MI07908g08b.jpg Key hangers 1401-1600 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/10/b/MI07910b05b.jpg Ring 1551 - 1600 gold with red stone http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/079/09/b/MI07909g01b.jpg Berlin Bride's belt 16th century http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/039/97/b/MI03997f02b.jpg Gold chanins end of 16th century http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/039/97/b/MI03997f03b.jpg Leather hat circa 1560 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/001/86/b/MI00186g02b.jpg Leather flask 16th century ?Italian http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/001/86/b/MI00186g04b.jpg 16th century Spanish embroidery http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/039/97/b/MI03997a04b.jpg More 16th century Spanish embroidery http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/039/97/b/MI03997a03b.jpg Köln Eagle pendant 2nd half of 16th century http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/120/09/b/MI12009d07b.jpg Pomanders 15th and 16th century http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/016/99/b/MI01699c07b.jpg Pomanders 15th and 16th century http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/016/99/b/MI01699c08b.jpg 16th century pomander http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/120/16/b/MI12016f05b.jpg 16th century pomander http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/120/16/b/MI12016f06b.jpg Pearl and gold phoenix circa 1520 http://www.bildindex.de/fotos/mi/016/97/b/MI01697b09b.jpg Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: GermanRenCostume-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 11:46:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IFkZqa010527 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:46:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IFjQcf008035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IFjON0003544; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:45:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20109.mail.yahoo.com (web20109.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3IFjLN0003510 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030418154521.76980.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.116.158.11] by web20109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:45:21 PDT Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:45:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Sidonia Ros Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit, I have a reproduction copy that was put out by the Huntington Library a few years back. I'll see if I can find it for you. Sandra --- Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > Greetings All! > > I am looking for a European (Preferably > English/British Empire) book of > Etiquette for the Early Victorian Era. Does anyone > who is into antique books > have any titles for me? > > Thanks, > Kit > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 12:00:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IG0eqa010562 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IFwCcf009418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IFwBsE012610; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IFw7sE012567 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.242]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B182D2628DA for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:58:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:59:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Clickable pictures Bath Ball X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I have made the pictures clickable, from the Bath Ball. If you are interrested. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 12:59:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IGxMqa010705 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:59:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IGwEcf015466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IGwCDD022330; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:58:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta03.fuse.net (mx3.fuse.net [216.68.1.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IGw7DD022254 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netzero.netzero.net ([216.196.136.212]) by mta03.fuse.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030418165804.QAXA12472.mta03.fuse.net@netzero.netzero.net> for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:58:04 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030418125441.00b1cdd0@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: zofiahborek@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:56:13 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Lady Zofia Borek Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? In-Reply-To: <3E9B782E.5040003@grics.net> References: <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried Dharma Trading Fabrics? http://www.dharmatrading.com/silk_fabrics.html They usually only dell white and also sell the dyes to create the perfect color. Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 14:29:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IITIqa010912 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:29:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IIQfcf024760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IIQdUs022197; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:26:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IIQYUs022101 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:26:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.118] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A063600100CC; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:13:55 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c305d7$c6726880$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:24:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But the fiber content is 20/80 silk& rayon. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lady Zofia Borek" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? > Have you tried Dharma Trading > Fabrics? http://www.dharmatrading.com/silk_fabrics.html They usually only > dell white and also sell the dyes to create the perfect color. > > Jennifer > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 15:00:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IJ09qa011019 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:00:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IIwscf027715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IIwpLk012581; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IIwlLk012523 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:58:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.242]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D7B45EE232 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:58:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c305dc$d0d48b00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:00:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] silk velvet. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. If you cant afford the very expensive real silk velvet, why dont you consider to use the fake one. There is lots of different kinds of fake velvets, but some of them are real good. Sir James who had the dark red silk velvet suit at the Bath Ball, looked very well in his fake silk velvet. I would say it looked like real thing. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 16:12:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IKCSqa011222 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:12:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IK8Ycf004721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IK8XiU027068; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:08:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3IK8TiU026978 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWnM20Ck79BjUljnIAfc2Ysu2f3uXFvpnWw==">; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:07:36 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HV3VAJ4Q; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:07:36 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:09:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clickable pictures Bath Ball Message-ID: <20030418.160927.-575591.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just noticed in the blown up pictures that you really have very nice legs. I still think that your costume was superior to any other pictured. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 18 16:51:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IKpwqa011351 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IKoucf008599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IKotiU023644; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:50:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3IKoqiU023567 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.142.f85668b (25305) for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:50:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <142.f85668b.2bd1bf22@aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:50:42 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Our Members in England X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are any of our UK members in Bath, York, Portsmouth or Bury St. Edmunds? (Or at least near any of those locations?) The US Post has managed to destroy one of the boxes we had shipped home from England, and all of the costuming stuff I bought is gone. I am hoping that if I offer to pay costs and entry to a couple of the museums, that I might be able to convince someone someone to pick up some of the lost items and ship them to me. Please contact me in private. Thanks in Advance, Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 19 15:17:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3JJHhqa015872 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:17:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3JJGQcf001480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3JJGMaU018797; Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.mcn.org (smtp.mcn.org [204.189.12.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3JJGIaU018756 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ha-1e-men-p3-m12.mcn.org [63.193.12.144]) by smtp.mcn.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3JJGHgS009285 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:15:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Fred Struthers To: h-costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <3A288CB8-729B-11D7-9CB2-000393B1A476@mcn.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] Louise Augusta catalog X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings I have for sale, a limited number of copies of three exhibition catalogs that people have been discussing on this list. Louise Augusta Kaerlighedsbarnet by Helleberg, M & Johansen, K Lions of Fashion by Rangstrom, L For Our Royal Person by Wardle, P Contact me for pricing or other info at fsbks@mcn.org Please note that I will be out of the office until after MAY 1, so you will not have a reply from me, until AFTER that date. Fred Struthers -- Books on Cloth a catalog of out-of-print and hard-to-find books on costume, textiles and related subjects distributor, RL Shep Publications -- http://www.rlshep.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 21 05:34:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3L9YWqa016369 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 05:34:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3L9XOcf000143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 03:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3L9XJMQ014259; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 03:33:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3L9XGMQ014228 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 03:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAF83040070; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:33:44 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAC9A40338; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:32:57 -0500 Message-ID: <00d701c307e8$a67ca6e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 05:30:28 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] YEA!!!!!!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I finally got all the "Search by Topic" (bottom) shelf links and webpages active for our online Library, www.costumegallery.com/reseach.htm . I have been wanting to do this for years, to categorize the webpages by topic to make it easier to search. I didn't want to put a search engine on the site and have it come up with topics that weren't relevant. When Shashy volunteered to make the new book graphics for the library, I asked her to make the new shelf. For the past week, I have been going through article by article on the Gallery to put them into the appropriate categories. I learned two things... I must have an obsession with the topics, hats and children. There are a lot of articles on them. And I thought it was just an obsession with hairstyles! Shashy will be adding a book on the shelf for needlework in the next couple of days. Thanks to our needlework interns, we will be adding a lot of these patterns. The funeral and bridal sections will really be growing over the next month too. Down the road, I plan to make pretty background for this shelf's webpages like the children's page. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 21 11:00:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LF05qa001107 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:00:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LEwjcf018965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LEwhmK020400; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LEwcmK020355 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) JAA28244; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:58:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001101c30816$d24759e0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Cynthia Abel" References: <000801c30816$2ab95e80$55c98693@creighton.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:01:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3LF05qa001107 Status: RO I wrote this query today to info@simplicity.com For any of you interested in the new Simplicity costume catalog or know about the fabric I'm asking about, I thought I'd forward this to the list. I purchased your Costume catalog(#3811)this weekend and am very interested in buying the plaid fabric pictured on page 872 and on the back cover for pattern 7212 which I have already. It appears to be a silk taffeta and is very true to the period 1860-1870's when aniline dyes made vivid colors possible. Could you give me any info on the manufacturer or sources where I might purchase this fabric? My university is celebrating its 125 birthday this year and several staff members at this library have put forth the idea as dressing as members of the founding family and/or others connected to the university Many thanks! Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California St Omaha NE 68178-0210 brujne@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 21 13:09:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LH8xqa001477 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:08:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LH7ccf004316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LH7ZpG024669; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80103.mail.yahoo.com (web80103.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3LH7WpG024636 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:07:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030421170731.93434.qmail@web80103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:07:31 PDT Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:07:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304131651.h3DGpYWD026556@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] A week in LaLaland (somewhat long) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi to all. I'm finally back after more than a week in Los Angeles (aka "LaLaland), and am still recovering and catching up on my e-mail (no access while I was down there, so the mail box is pretty full). Firstly, congratulations to Michaela for her Galadriel win. That costume rocks! If you don't mind, I'm going to "swipe" some of your distressing techniques (I wonder how driving over the fabric on 3/4" gravel would work?) for the next time I need to build a "predistressed" costume. So...what was LA like? In a word, cold. I was hoping to escape our chilly NoCal weather for a week, and instead had to deal with cold and wet just like the Bay Area. Yuck! While I was down there, I had a chance to "hit" 2 museums: the Huntington Library & Art Gallery, and the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA). The Huntington currently has an exhibition entitled "Gloriana" on the making of the legend of ERI. It's small, but good, with a number of books and documents pulled from their collection. I also had a chance to check out and photograph a bunch of the paintings in their main gallery (where "Blue Boy," "Pinky," and "Mrs. Siddons" are all hanging. The paintings look pretty good, and there are currently several from other museums (2 from the National Gallery in Washington D.C. and 1 from the Tate, IIRC). LACMA is always worth a visit (one of the reasons I keep my membership), but now is a particularly good time. The "Sargent in Italy" exhibition has a number of good works by John Singer Sargent, almost all done during his "vacations" in Italy. The paintings (oils and watercolors) are divided up by subject matter, and 1 gallery is nothing but Sargent portraits. His full-length portrait of Elizabeth Colt (I forget her married name) is the centerpiece of this gallery, and was used for one of the posters. The catalog is beautiful, as are the "goodies" (high quality prints and such) produced for the exhibition. Also worth seeing is the Genghis Khan exhibition. I almost passed on this one, got dragged in by my DH, and spent the next 90 minutes marvelling over the illuminated pages, ceramics, jewelry, and textiles. The exhibition focuses on the Ilkhanid period in Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan (roughly 1295-1395) and many of the items in the exhibition are from collections outside the US. The mid-14th century silk brocade tent hangings were particularly impressive. Again, there is a lovely catalog, and the main bookstore at LACMA has a number of additional books on the Silk Road and this period of history. For those who haven't been to LACMA in a while, they've rearranged the bookshop space again, and have their selection spread throughout the three buildings. The textile and costuming books are now in the "main" building (where the textile and costume displays usually are), right next to the front door. I spent 2 days in the Garment District buying fabrics, mostly for Oz, but also for myself. I managed to "score" a couple of good things, including 12 yards of dark lilac silk dupioni for a ballgown, 4 yds of silver dupioni for an underskirt, and various amounts of other stuff for projects. Fabric has gone up in price: dupioni/shantung is now selling for about $6/yd (up from $4.50/yd last year), and linen is now running $4/yd (up from $3/yd last year). However, the bargains are still out there if you look carefully enough (25 yds of bleached muslin for $1/yd and 100 yds of unbleached for $80, for examples). I ended up dragging home about 500 yards of fabric, ranging from poly poplin and polycotton twill (Oz fabrics) to silks and linens. So, in a nutshell, that was my trip to LaLaland. Hope everybody had a pleasant and restful Passover or Easter, whichever is your choice. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA The world has truly gone crazy. The best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the Americas Cup, the French are accusing the United States of arrogance, and the Germans don't want to go to war. --Chris Rock _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 21 15:49:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LJntqa001896 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:49:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LJlEcf021419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:47:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LJl4wu028545; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80105.mail.yahoo.com (web80105.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3LJkxwu028498 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030421194659.62933.qmail@web80105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:46:59 PDT Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304211801.h3LI0xqp006708@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Oz and other stuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Finally! I'm caught up on the h-costume digest. Other stuff #1--to Bjarne: This is going to sound totally stupid, but you are so cute!!! I just love the suit, and the pictures from the ball are wonderful. Other stuff #2--to Stevie: Again, you're welcome. I hope Bella had a good time at the ball, and I hope you made it to CostumeCon. Oz: I've relearned the first rule of costuming: Never volunteer for just a little, because you'll get drafted. I originally volunteered to act as wardrobe mistress--I'm now the costume designer for the show. OK except...I haven't worked on a show since about 1985, haven't done any theatrical designing since 1978, and opening night is May 28. I also have a director with ADD (attention deficit disorder), and 3 stage design people that want to design costumes. I'm pullling my hair out, but still smiling at this point. One piece of luck: Enchanted Attic in San Bernardino. This is a largest costume shop that supplies most of the theatrical and operatic shows in the "Inland Empire" (San Bernardino, Riverside, etc.). The owner, Fern, is a doll. She did most of the preliminary "pulling" for approval, and between her, me, and the director, we pulled 30 costumes in a little over 3 hours. That leaves me with 59-65 to build: 2 crows, 3 trees, 14 Winkies, 40 "poppykins" and possibly 6 jitterbugs. Another piece of luck: Having Spring Break fall last week. I was in LA, and was able to buy 95% of the materials to build the costumes in the Garment District. No tremendous deals, but I paid $1/yd or less for all the fabric for I needed (about 300 yds), so I'm pleased. Yet another piece of luck (and a belated thank you): This list. Thanks millions to everyone that posted suggestions on how to build the trees; I think it's going to work out just fine. I was also pleased to find that when pushed, I can still crank out design sketches. I had to do about 40 sketches in 4 days, and I managed to do it (barely). I haven't had to do that much sustained creative effort in a couple of decades, but I can still do it, and not end up a jibbering idiot afterward. I also found out what the next show is: Oliver!, scheduled to run in early August. This one is going to have to be a "pulled show" (I don't build anything), as I have 6 costumes I have to build for myself and others before Costume College in August. I've been thinking about it for the past few days, and will probably start the sketches this week (in between bouts at the sewing machine). Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA The world has truly gone crazy. The best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the Americas Cup, the French are accusing the United States of arrogance, and the Germans don't want to go to war. --Chris Rock _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 21 17:41:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLffqa002234 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:41:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLe6dH006604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLRC7o021357; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLR37o021221 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 197ioX-000G98-0W; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:27:01 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:21:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] book descr.: Muzzarelli References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030418142853.03f41e30@jagor.srce.hr> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030418142853.03f41e30@jagor.srce.hr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What dates does this book take as "medieval"? Is it confined to Italian sources, or what area does it cover? It sounds like it could be very interesting, but it depends on the scope. Jean Jadran Kale wrote >Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli >Guardaroba medievale >Medieval Wardrobe >1999, pp. 380 > >This volume describes the history of clothing in the Middle Ages, both >in its material nature and in its social uses, the meanings which >society then attributed to garments. On the basis of notaries' >inventories, shopping lists and other documents of the era, the author >illustrates - in a series of authentic cases - the composition of men >and women's medieval wardrobes. Types and quantities of attire reveal >the various social groups' characteristics. Vivid descriptions allow >the reader to experience the processes concerning the production and >commerce of clothes, from the shops of craftsmen (dyers, silk-weavers, >tanners, shoemakers, tailors) to garment vendors and haberdashers. >Special emphasis is placed on the social use of dress: how people >dressed on different occasions, how clothes confirmed social status >differences, and how the Church and the law attempted (with little >success) to place limits on luxury. > >Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli, a historian of the middle ages, teaches >History of the City in the Faculty of Letters and Philosophy at the >University of Bologna. > >http://www.mulino.it/edizioni/foreign_rights/backlist/history/muzza.htm > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 21 17:41:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLffqa002235 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:41:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLe6dF006604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLRr7o022001; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LLR37o021220 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 197ioX-000G98-0W; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:27:01 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:21:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] book descr.: Muzzarelli References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030418142853.03f41e30@jagor.srce.hr> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030418142853.03f41e30@jagor.srce.hr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What dates does this book take as "medieval"? Is it confined to Italian sources, or what area does it cover? It sounds like it could be very interesting, but it depends on the scope. Jean Jadran Kale wrote >Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli >Guardaroba medievale >Medieval Wardrobe >1999, pp. 380 > >This volume describes the history of clothing in the Middle Ages, both >in its material nature and in its social uses, the meanings which >society then attributed to garments. On the basis of notaries' >inventories, shopping lists and other documents of the era, the author >illustrates - in a series of authentic cases - the composition of men >and women's medieval wardrobes. Types and quantities of attire reveal >the various social groups' characteristics. Vivid descriptions allow >the reader to experience the processes concerning the production and >commerce of clothes, from the shops of craftsmen (dyers, silk-weavers, >tanners, shoemakers, tailors) to garment vendors and haberdashers. >Special emphasis is placed on the social use of dress: how people >dressed on different occasions, how clothes confirmed social status >differences, and how the Church and the law attempted (with little >success) to place limits on luxury. > >Maria Giuseppina Muzzarelli, a historian of the middle ages, teaches >History of the City in the Faculty of Letters and Philosophy at the >University of Bologna. > >http://www.mulino.it/edizioni/foreign_rights/backlist/history/muzza.htm > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 21 19:47:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LNltqa002448 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:47:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LNnKcf025472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LNnHga003345; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LNnFga003297 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0797E60160; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:36:25 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c30861$0c55b7e0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:52:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] New topic: Shaker underpinnings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3LNltqa002448 Status: RO I have an inquiry pertaining to 'unders 'for the Shaker woman. The period in question is 1860-65, New England. Does anyone have any information about the garments that might have been worn? We have general 'specs', but would like to connect with information that can be documented. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 02:18:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6Hxqa005693 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6Hscf023338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6HpXL009250; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail4.mn.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6HmXL009233 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([24.26.184.116]) by mail4.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:16:58 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422011538.038d4ac0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:18:58 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030418125441.00b1cdd0@pop.netzero.net> References: <3E9B782E.5040003@grics.net> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Jack Lenor Larsen designs/makes 100% silk upholstery velvet. I can't even begin to describe it - it has the density and weight of a good quality cotton upholstery velvet but has the hand and subtle sheen of silk. I think it is as close to period silk velvets as we can get and it is to die for. I don't know who carries it or for how much but, I believe it carried by upscale interior design firms...if you have the money it is worth checking out. Cheers, Danielle At 12:56 PM 4/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Have you tried Dharma Trading >Fabrics? http://www.dharmatrading.com/silk_fabrics.html They usually only >dell white and also sell the dyes to create the perfect color. > >Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 02:18:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6IMqa005742 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:18:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6IZcf023370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6IZXL009548; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail4.mn.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6IXXL009534 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([24.26.184.116]) by mail4.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:17:52 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422011538.038d4ac0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:18:58 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030418125441.00b1cdd0@pop.netzero.net> References: <3E9B782E.5040003@grics.net> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Jack Lenor Larsen designs/makes 100% silk upholstery velvet. I can't even begin to describe it - it has the density and weight of a good quality cotton upholstery velvet but has the hand and subtle sheen of silk. I think it is as close to period silk velvets as we can get and it is to die for. I don't know who carries it or for how much but, I believe it carried by upscale interior design firms...if you have the money it is worth checking out. Cheers, Danielle At 12:56 PM 4/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Have you tried Dharma Trading >Fabrics? http://www.dharmatrading.com/silk_fabrics.html They usually only >dell white and also sell the dyes to create the perfect color. > >Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 02:43:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hBqa008836 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:43:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hQcf024685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hPXL019965; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail6.mn.rr.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hNXL019938 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([24.26.184.116]) by mail6.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:43:40 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014209.02ce0540@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:43:01 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clickable pictures Bath Ball In-Reply-To: <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The ball looks like it was lots of fun, there were many gorgeous costumes it looks like. Bjarne, you looked so perfect! Cheers, Danielle At 05:59 PM 4/18/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi. >I have made the pictures clickable, from the Bath Ball. >If you are interrested. > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 02:43:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hTqa008888 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:43:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hkcf024713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hkXL020126; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:43:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail6.mn.rr.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6hNXL019944 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([24.26.184.116]) by mail6.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:43:41 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:46:03 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, Well, I'm back from CostumeCon! It was so much fun. I hope more people from the list go to the next one, it was really great to be able to finally put faces to names. One of H-Costume's members did very well in the historical masquerade (competition). ...I hope she will brag about it when she gets back - it was a very impressive entry. : ) Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 02:50:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6oPqa009807 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:50:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6ofcf024998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:50:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6oeXL022519; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail005.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail005.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3M6oZXL022461 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h3M6oSo08652 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:50:29 +1000 Message-ID: <014501c3089b$cf01a350$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:52:57 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, I'm back from CostumeCon! It was so much fun. I hope more people We want photos!!!! Karen----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 08:50:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MCoBqa019657 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MCoAcf012714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:50:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MCo45F001272; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MCo05F001190 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.109] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A773989018C; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:37:07 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c308ce$1e479a00$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c30816$2ab95e80$55c98693@creighton.edu> <001101c30816$d24759e0$55c98693@creighton.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:52:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy, If you are going to be using the pattern also, be aware that it is designed for a modern fit(i.e.. the shoulder line is at the shoulder, sideline is at the true side and the waistline is 'true waist'.) Dresses of this period should have a shoulder that recedes slightly backwards and the back is cut smaller. These two elements cause the wearer to stand more erect. The waist line should be slightly short . I suspect the reason for this is more than aesthetic ; with all the underpinnings meeting at the waist, it gets a little bunchy with the layers. I recently made a companion in this series and did the pattern alteration in this way: Tape the back and front shoulder pieces together retaining one seam allowance. Mark one inch at the neckline from the front, on the back piece and two inches at the sleeve side. Cut the revised back free. Tape the side back to the front side and diminish the side back by cutting a line of about 1'fat'inch from the sideback.T The back piece can be slightly diminished by removing the seam allowance from the waist upwards to the curve . Once again if you tape the pieces together before you cut, you should not have to then remember when you cut the fabric to restore seam allowances. The waist then need only to have the seam allowance cut off. Then make your muslin from the altered pattern. It should fit smoothly across the back without puckers or blousing; the new shoulder will have a gentle wrap backwards. Be aware that this new fit will also effect the sleeve insertion. I was puzzled by one inner construction; they give the pieces that are padded and inserted under the arm, which if used, would pad the bosom of the dress in that area. I have several antiques of the period and they do not have this padding...at least in women's garments. My take on this is that someone has mistaken sweat shields for bolsters in their research. Has anyone else seen this in your travels through museum archives of nineteenth century garments ? Kathleen ---- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Cynthia Abel" Cc: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 11:01 AM Subject: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book I wrote this query today to info@simplicity.com For any of you interested in the new Simplicity costume catalog or know about the fabric I'm asking about, I thought I'd forward this to the list. I purchased your Costume catalog(#3811)this weekend and am very interested in buying the plaid fabric pictured on page 872 and on the back cover for pattern 7212 which I have already. It appears to be a silk taffeta and is very true to the period 1860-1870's when aniline dyes made vivid colors possible. Could you give me any info on the manufacturer or sources where I might purchase this fabric? My university is celebrating its 125 birthday this year and several staff members at this library have put forth the idea as dressing as members of the founding family and/or others connected to the university Many thanks! Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California St Omaha NE 68178-0210 brujne@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 09:42:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDgRqa006142 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:42:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDgdcf016363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDgcoP023836; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3MDgXoP023799 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22977 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2003 14:25:01 -0000 Received: from 66-44-40-32.s32.apx1.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.40.32) by shada.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2003 14:25:01 -0000 Message-ID: <3EA53B56.6000304@oldwaylane.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:53:42 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Greetings, > > Well, I'm back from CostumeCon! It was so much fun. I hope more people > from the list go to the next one, it was really great to be able to > finally put faces to names. One of H-Costume's members did very well in > the historical masquerade (competition). ...I hope she will brag about > it when she gets back - it was a very impressive entry. : ) Oh! Thank you very much, glad you liked it. I had a great time, and it was wonderful to meet so many of the folks I see posting regularly. And I'm still annoyed that I never got to hear Teddy's story about blowing up the hotel sink (even though he did tell it - I was somewhere else). About my entry (brag: I won Best in Master Class for both documentation and stage, and workmanship award was something about "Best obsessive handsewing" - ah, this was my first time up as a master level). The outfit was an 1860s Danish day dress from the Ringkobing area. Basically it was a fan-front dress out of dark green alpaca drille with a burgundy silk apron, custom knit wool stockings (my friend knits them) and a winged tulle under-cap with a hare-hair top hat. The tulle cap was all white on white embroidery (including the ruffles) and the wings were starched with rice starch and ruffled over a wooden frame of dowels. And then I had to figure out how to ship the cap to the convention without crushing the starching!! There was a lot of great costumes in the competition, we had about 21 entries. This made me very happy because the entries have been getting really low at the last few cons. I think the "pearlies" (cockney button design outfits) from Mary Poppins was my favorite! There will be pics put on the web at some point, I don't know how long it will take. I know the photographer said something about putting everything online so people could see (and order!), but I don't know off hand what url it will be or how quick he'll be - he was shooting digital so it's not as if he has to develop and scan the stuff. I hope everyone had uneventful trips back home! -Judy Mitchell (and back to lurking) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 09:45:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDjoqa006165 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:45:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDk1cf016627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDk0oP025559; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDjvoP025522 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19132 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:04:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:04:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Well, I'm back from CostumeCon! It was so much fun. I hope more > people from the list go to the next one, it was really great to be > able to finally put faces to names. What she said :-) I will try to post something more coherent later -- I've got a lot of catching up to do on work and sleep. There were *loads* of h-cost people there, including some lurkers whose names I'd never seen before. (The red "H" we stamped on our badges was a big help.) I would name everyone if I could but I'm a little fried right now. It was almost as though there was a mini h-cost convention going on within the CostumeCon. The weekend was visually delightful; everywhere I looked there was something else beautiful or fantastical worth lingering over. I was the dullest one there most of the time, having brought only my 60s Mod minidress for the Friday party and my lecture outfit (a GFD, of course). I am now acutely aware that I need a *new* lecture outfit; after several years I have outgrown this one, and I don't mean that it's too short ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 09:47:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDlXqa006178 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:47:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDlbcf016754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:47:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDlaoP026280; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MDlXoP026253 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-98.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.98] helo=pavilion) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 197y7Q-00012X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:47:33 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c308d7$6f26a3e0$620e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c30816$2ab95e80$55c98693@creighton.edu><001101c30816$d24759e0$55c98693@creighton.edu> <001101c308ce$1e479a00$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:59:44 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen wrote: > I was puzzled by one inner construction; they give the pieces that are > padded and inserted under the arm, which if used, > would pad the bosom of the dress in that area. I have several antiques of > the period and they do not have this padding...at least in women's garments. > My take on this is that someone has mistaken sweat shields for bolsters in > their research. Has anyone else seen this in your travels through museum > archives of nineteenth century garments ? I took a goldrush era vintage costuming course at my local community college last year and this padding was discussed. The teacher was a lovely lady, but not a "serious" costume historian, more a historical costumer but still seemed to be well researched. I don't know this period at all but I will repeat that she pointed out that dropping the shoulders and other period seam placements causes excess fabric above the breasts towards the shoulder / armpit and to overcome this padding was used. I haven't looked at the Simplicity pattern, but it appears that this might be the same idea here, but if it is a modern cut dress why bother? So, it's not the first time I've heard this mentioned. Whether this is a modern costumers way of dealing with the fit of a dropped shoulder or it happened historically as my teacher said without references I don't know, but would be interested in hearing an answer. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 10:10:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MEAMqa006277 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MEAWcf018862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:10:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MEAV3Q008215; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:10:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41004.mail.yahoo.com (web41004.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3MEAS3Q008143 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030422141023.34406.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:10:23 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:10:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Tania Gruning To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear All. I was wondering if somebody on the list was desperate to get something from Denmark. I would really like to get two patterns from simplicity and the nearest outlet from where I am is in either London or Paris, and as a poor student I cannot go there just to get a pattern . It is the simplicity Design: 9769 Sizes: 6 to 20 Misses' Authentic Civil War Undergarments And Design: 7215 Sizes: 6 to 20 Misses Chemise and Corset The one for my first victorian corset and the other for when I need a challenge. Yours Sincerely Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 10:18:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MEIFqa006285 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:18:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MEINcf019536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MEIL3Q012446; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MEIH3Q012336 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1a2.138a66a7 (16484) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a2.138a66a7.2bd6a917@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:17:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not desperate to get anything from Denmark, but I wouldn't mind sending you the patterns. Does their website not allow international mail orders, though? Email me privately if you need me to do the sending for you. Ann Wass annbwass@aol.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 10:27:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MER2qa006294 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:27:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MERCcf020403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MERB3Q018553; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe59.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MER83Q018453 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:27:03 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe59.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:27:02 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c305dc$d0d48b00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk velvet. Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:25:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Apr 2003 14:27:03.0000 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E255580:01C308DB] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Talking about silk velvet... I went to NYC this weekend, the Cloisters and the Metropolitan museum both have small pieces of silk velvet... not nearly enough to my liking, but they were the first real ones I'd ever seen! Yummy! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 11:09:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MF9Cqa006513 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:09:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MF9Ecf024871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:09:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MF9C9V017491; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ca-exchange.ca.int (mail.yourcall.com [65.172.194.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MF989V017450 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:09:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <29E5D3F4A506A44D925FDB984E24C26115A6D3@mail.yourcall.com> From: "Peavy, Tish" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:09:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores in SC? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was wondering if anyone can tell me of any good fabric stores in South Carolina. I am going to be in Charleston this weekend and I know I have heard of at least one fabric outlet store somewhere in South Carolina. Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks, Tish P Montgomery, AL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 11:16:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFGEqa006535 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:16:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFDncf025477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:13:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFDm9V020931; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:13:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.uttyl.edu (MAIL.UTTYL.EDU [198.213.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFDj9V020906 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:13:45 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores in SC? To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.3 March 21, 2000 Message-ID: From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:14:54 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on UT Tyler Admin/UT Tyler(Release 6.0.1|February 07, 2003) at 04/22/2003 10:15:06 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My favorite South Carolina fabric store is Ninety-Six Fabrics in Ninety-Six, SC. They have an entire room dedicated to reenactors, both Revolutionary and Civil War. Mary Jo's in Gastonia, NC, however, is just over the state line. It's huge but mainstream. Vicki Betts Texas I was wondering if anyone can tell me of any good fabric stores in South Carolina. I am going to be in Charleston this weekend and I know I have heard of at least one fabric outlet store somewhere in South Carolina. Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks, Tish P Montgomery, AL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 11:33:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFXSqa006951 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFXUcf028050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:33:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFXR9V006661; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:33:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFXO9V006566 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:33:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.119.22591045 (16484) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:33:12 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <119.22591045.2bd6bab8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:33:12 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores in SC? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/22/2003 11:14:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu writes: > My favorite South Carolina fabric store is Ninety-Six Fabrics in > Ninety-Six, SC. And where, please, is Ninety-Six? Anywhere near Charleston? I've been to Mary Jo's. Got some good batiste trims and a piece of silk and have kicked myself several times that I didn't buy the beautiful piece of butterscotch wool I saw. And it is not very close to Charleston. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 11:34:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFYBqa006955 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:34:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFXqcf028109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:33:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFXp9V006918; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFXb9V006753 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:33:32 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030422102508.00a24820@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:38:38 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> References: <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, Judy did really well in the master class! Her outfit was entirely hand-sewn! Talk about dedication.... :-) I did pretty well myself in the novice category. It's the first time that I had ever entered a masquerade and I won best novice workmanship, best of class in novice, and got an honorable mention for my documentation. I was so excited! It was a black and white day dress from 1894. My doll got an award too. (but it was sf/fantasy, not historical). It was great meeting so many people that I've talked to here. Robin was there (in a nifty BRIGHT mod dress for the party). I went out to dinner and sari shopping one night with Karen (seamstrix) and Teddy. They were a hoot! I met one of the Allisons (sorry, I can't remember which one). And a couple of other h-costumers whom I'm too overloaded to remember right now. Now if I can just get over the exhaustion and brain-fry..... Sheryl Nance-Durst At 01:46 AM 4/22/03 -0500, you wrote: >Well, I'm back from CostumeCon! It was so much fun. I hope more people >from the list go to the next one, it was really great to be able to >finally put faces to names. One of H-Costume's members did very well in >the historical masquerade (competition). ...I hope she will brag about it >when she gets back - it was a very impressive entry. : ) > >Cheers, >Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 11:47:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFlJqa006993 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:47:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFlUcf029816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:47:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFlS9V016784; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:47:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.uttyl.edu (MAIL.UTTYL.EDU [198.213.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MFlK9V016705 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores in SC? To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.3 March 21, 2000 Message-ID: From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:48:31 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on UT Tyler Admin/UT Tyler(Release 6.0.1|February 07, 2003) at 04/22/2003 10:48:43 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ninety Six is between Greenwood and Newberry, west of Columbia, so it's not near Charleston, either. (183 miles according to Mapquest). But I got a gorgeous piece of gray with blue and black windowpane wool there, and they had other lovely things. I don't know of any fabric stores right around Charleston, either good or bad. Vicki Betts In a message dated 4/22/2003 11:14:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu writes: > My favorite South Carolina fabric store is Ninety-Six Fabrics in > Ninety-Six, SC. And where, please, is Ninety-Six? Anywhere near Charleston? I've been to Mary Jo's. Got some good batiste trims and a piece of silk and have kicked myself several times that I didn't buy the beautiful piece of butterscotch wool I saw. And it is not very close to Charleston. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 12:04:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG4Xqa007028 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:04:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG4Scf002061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG4Qut000327; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ca-exchange.ca.int (mail.yourcall.com [65.172.194.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG4Lut000247 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <29E5D3F4A506A44D925FDB984E24C26115A6D5@mail.yourcall.com> From: "Peavy, Tish" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric stores in SC? Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:04:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all for replying about the fabric stores. I wish I had more time to travel around to the ones you mentioned. Maybe next trip! ; ) Tish *~*-----Original Message----- *~*From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu [mailto:Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu] *~*Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:49 AM *~*To: Historical Costume *~*Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores in SC? *~* *~* *~* *~* *~* *~* *~*Ninety Six is between Greenwood and Newberry, west of *~*Columbia, so it's not *~*near Charleston, either. (183 miles according to Mapquest). *~*But I got a *~*gorgeous piece of gray with blue and black windowpane wool *~*there, and they *~*had other lovely things. I don't know of any fabric stores *~*right around *~*Charleston, either good or bad. *~* *~*Vicki Betts *~* *~* *~* *~*In a message dated 4/22/2003 11:14:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, *~*Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu writes: *~* *~* *~*> My favorite South Carolina fabric store is Ninety-Six Fabrics in *~*> Ninety-Six, SC. *~* *~*And where, please, is Ninety-Six? Anywhere near Charleston? *~* *~*I've been to Mary Jo's. Got some good batiste trims and a *~*piece of silk *~*and *~*have kicked myself several times that I didn't buy the *~*beautiful piece of *~*butterscotch wool I saw. And it is not very close to Charleston. *~* *~*Ann Wass *~*_______________________________________________ *~*h-costume mailing list *~*h-costume@mail.indra.com *~*http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume *~* *~* *~* *~*_______________________________________________ *~*h-costume mailing list *~*h-costume@mail.indra.com *~*http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume *~* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 12:08:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG8nqa007038 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG8Pcf002534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:08:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG8Out003423; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MG8Kut003289 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.169.1d9091ec (30960) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:08:04 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <169.1d9091ec.2bd6c2e1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:08:01 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: New topic: Shaker underpinnings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have an inquiry pertaining to 'unders 'for the Shaker woman. The period in question is 1860-65, New England. Does anyone have any information about the garments that might have been worn? When I visited Pleasant Hill (a restored Shaker village in Kentucky), I got the impression that they simply wore a slightly old-fashioned version of everyday wear for the period. Presumably that would include their "unders", but you want documentation instead of extrapolation. I haven't checked all of them, but there's lots of links in the Shaker article on the Religious Movements Homepage: http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/Shakers.html Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 22 12:22:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MGM8qa007071 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:22:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MGMCcf004100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MGMBut013527; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MGM8ut013451 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A92CE48018C; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:09:16 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c308eb$c18a29e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c30816$2ab95e80$55c98693@creighton.edu><001101c30816$d24759e0$55c98693@creighton.edu><001101c308ce$1e479a00$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <000b01c308d7$6f26a3e0$620e77d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:25:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is very interesting. Having made the dress in question, I can see why they might have decided the pad was necessary because of the 'bunching' you mention. When I 'rolled the shoulder, the padding was not necessary, hence my suggestions to correct the cut. Thank you! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book > Kathleen wrote: > > I was puzzled by one inner construction; they give the pieces that are > > padded and inserted under the arm, which if used, > > would pad the bosom of the dress in that area. I have several antiques > of > > the period and they do not have this padding...at least in women's > garments. > > My take on this is that someone has mistaken sweat shields for bolsters in > > their research. Has anyone else seen this in your travels through museum > > archives of nineteenth century garments ? > > > I took a goldrush era vintage costuming course at my local community college > last year and this padding was discussed. The teacher was a lovely lady, > but not a "serious" costume historian, more a historical costumer but still > seemed to be well researched. I don't know this period at all but I will > repeat that she pointed out that dropping the shoulders and other period > seam placements causes excess fabric above the breasts towards the shoulder > / armpit and to overcome this padding was used. I haven't looked at the > Simplicity pattern, but it appears that this might be the same idea here, > but if it is a modern cut dress why bother? So, it's not the first time > I've heard this mentioned. Whether this is a modern costumers way of > dealing with the fit of a dropped shoulder or it happened historically as my > teacher said without references I don't know, but would be interested in > hearing an answer. > > Lisa > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:08:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NK8Kqa013240 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:08:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NK83cf023696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NK7p8n025264; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3MHuWGB016807 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29078 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2003 17:56:32 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 22 Apr 2003 17:56:32 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-177.sonic.net [209.148.112.177]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3MHuV025306 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:56:31 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030422105558.00af6a00@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:57:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book In-Reply-To: <000b01c308d7$6f26a3e0$620e77d8@pavilion> References: <000801c30816$2ab95e80$55c98693@creighton.edu> <001101c30816$d24759e0$55c98693@creighton.edu> <001101c308ce$1e479a00$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I took a goldrush era vintage costuming course at my local community college >last year and this padding was discussed. Whether this is a modern costumers way of >dealing with the fit of a dropped shoulder or it happened historically as my >teacher said without references I don't know, but would be interested in >hearing an answer. I've seen it in a number of original Victorian dresses. It pulls up extra fabric, also makes the bust look a little more rounded. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:12:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKCBqa013267 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKC7cf024335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKC68n029028; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:12:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21409.mail.yahoo.com (web21409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3MI8nGB026005 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030422180848.51304.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.159.175] by web21409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:08:48 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <010601c304a5$bc65a9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Norwescon update (hey, couldn't make CostumeCon!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went to our regional "biggie" convention and this time, instead of being a con committee slave, went to panels and participated in the Masquerade costume contest. Easter Weekend in the Northwest means that it is time for Norwescon and until it doesn't conflict, I'll likely never make Costume Con. *sigh* Our group, which comprised of two Journeyman Class, two Novices and the other three models/helpers was titles "5 of a Kind." Molly and I were doing our first Journeyman entry and Bronwyn and Mary were Novices in their first ever contest. All 15th Century gowns with headpieces (mine was appropriately silly/menacing as the Queen of Spades)and a Joker with tights and jerkin. One dealer and a deck of cards to introduce us all: Queen of Clubs, now renamed "Captain Hips" (music clip "Luck be a Lady Tonight" swaggling hips and blowing kisses everywhere) Queen of Diamonds...a novice who spent 70+ hours alone on her sleeves with diamond dags and sparklies (music clip: Madonna's "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend", with the Material Girl snippet) Queen of Spades (ok, so I looked a lot like Maleficent...in midnight blue, black/silver and tons of beads) {clip: Styx's "Beware of the Queen of Spades} Queen of Hearts (very Disneyesque Alice in Wonderland style)Her Music? Juice Newton's "Queen of Hearts" to segue in..... a truly obnoxious day-glo jester. and walk off to a chorus of Kenny Roger's "The Gambler" *gloat* we won Best Workmanship in a Group and BEST IN SHOW (GROUP)!!! Historical-type costuming won in a setting where it traditionally doesn't!!! Happy floating dance and best of all, we can wear it to the SCA as well, and were already approached by Dark Knight Productions as possibly being involved with them as well. Angharad ver' Reynulf yes, I AM the evil queen One shot, done by a friend before we found out the judge's decisions, is at photos.yahoo.com/dragonwolfcat . Sorry, I can't rotate it here at work. I'm going to try to get a hold of a couple of the folks who were taking pictures to see if I can get some that are in focus-since they took them of the group, individuals, as well as suit sets and Junior/Senior Queen sets. (But I still wish we could have gone to Costume Con instead...) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:16:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKGkqa013310 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:16:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKGmcf025317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKGl8n003690; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:16:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MJpKkq016289 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.14c.1e7bc9d4 (4320) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:50:10 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <14c.1e7bc9d4.2bd6f6f2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:50:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got to see the black and white day dress semi-up-close (well, my glasses are decent, anyhow). It's a lovely dress. My friend Deanna and I managed to make the audience laugh by doing a box-step to the Star Wars Cantina (AKA the Copacabana), and we won for pattern modification. For anyone at the Con, I was the goth girl during the historical masquerade- the costume needs an overhaul, because the bodice was a disaster! I plan to fix all of its problems over the summer. Until then, at least I actually GOT on stage! (the order of presentations went 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 3). Yes, I was presentation three in the novice category. The den moms were pinning me together ;) Christine In a message dated 4/22/03 11:34:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sherylnd@kc.rr.com writes: > I did pretty well myself in the novice category. It's the first time that I > had ever > entered a masquerade and I won best novice workmanship, best of class in > novice, > and got an honorable mention for my documentation. I was so excited! > It was a black and white day dress from 1894. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:19:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKJKqa013330 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:19:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKJMcf025683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKJK8n006033; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MMKgsd018496 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:20:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b22.directcon.net [209.79.208.22]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3MMMWf11051; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:22:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030422152302.00e32d30@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:23:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: References: <000901c305dc$d0d48b00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon Report X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone! I'm back from CostumeCon, and oh my, it was some of the most fun I've ever had in my life! Teddy is just what you'd expect, but even more so. Danielle Nunn-Weinberg and Drea Leed are WILD women, as are both Allisons. There were many others too, I'm still so tired I can't remember everyone. The black beaded 20's dress was a great sucess, especially in the eyes of a certain trumpet weilding band leader. Teddy says I'm a wicked temptress! I did discover that you should never buy a cheap Ebay feather boa, the dance floor looked like a cockfight after I was on it and I followed a trail of fallen feathers all the way back to my room. The programming had problems, due in part to a mixup with the hotel that left us short a room. A number of the worksops and classes were cancelled. There weren't many merchants, but the ones there were kept me busy. Alter Years had an entire room, and I bought myself a pair of fancy golden embroidery scissors with a matching sheath to hang from my girdle, and a matching needle case. I also bought books; one on shoemaking, a couple of fantasy novels, and Wayne found several arms and armour type books he liked. Calontir Trims was there, and I dropped some on fancy brocade ribbon trim, including a four inch wide one with scenes from the Bayeux Tapestry, to trim my living room curtains. We bought a video on making chain mail, and some Renaissance music CDs. Farthingales was also there. They had several unique products. One I really liked is a strip of spring steel boning with holes already drilled, so that you can set grommets through it, eliminating the problem of them ripping out of fabric. I plan to try them in my next corset. Farthingales was demonstrating the protype of a new machine, a hand press that cuts the ends of both flat steel and spirals, and applies the metal U-tips that are such a pain to do by hand. The machine is probably too expensive for individuals, at $350, but would be great for a costume shop. The masquerades were wonderful as usual. The Fantasy masquerade was won by a group doing the rock song "The Court of the Crimson King." Their costumes were stunning onstage and even more so closeup, Every piece was not only lined and finished, but the *linings* had hand sewn trims! The historical masquerade was won by Janet Anderson wearing a staggeringly gorgeous gold Dior tribute of a ball gown. Extra credit for wearing the five inch spike heels that finished the outfit. Wayne took lots of pictures, and we'll be adding them to the website soon. Exhausted but happy, Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:19:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKJqqa013335 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:19:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKJmcf025743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:19:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKJk8n006386; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:19:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MMQrsd022984 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.206.137.210] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 156744057 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:26:47 -0500 Message-ID: <3EA5C274.20408@accessus.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:30:12 -0500 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> <3EA53B56.6000304@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Judy Mitchell wrote: > > There was a lot of great costumes in the competition, we had about > 21 entries. This made me very happy because the entries have been > getting really low at the last few cons. This is what happens when the convention goes out of the country; not many people attend, and ideas get backed up. A lot of very experienced costumers came out of the woodwork to compete again. Judy did better than I, but I did get a workmanship award for my handquilted petticoat, so I was happy. > I think the "pearlies" (cockney button design outfits) from Mary > Poppins was my favorite! Those are members of the same ICG guild chapter I'm in, including my ex-husband (he was the one with the squeezebox who had to be dragged offstage). > > There will be pics put on the web at some point, I don't know how > long it will take. I know the photographer said something about > putting everything online so people could see (and order!), but I > don't know off hand what url it will be or how quick he'll be - he was > shooting digital so it's not as if he has to develop and scan the stuff. We'll see; he's a good photographer, but he didn't have a price set for a folio of 4x6 prints (one copy of everything), which is generally traditional. Many of us buy an entire set; he could have walked away with orders for several dozen if he'd been prepared. Karen > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:20:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKKQqa013339 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:20:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKKTcf025811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKKQ8n006971; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MMdPsd002481 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user43.net220.pa.sprint-hsd.net [65.173.84.43]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3MMdJB27124 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:39:19 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:39:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c3091f$fee718a0$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <002701c308eb$c18a29e0$665183d1@rmitchellras> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Original mid-19th century dresses or bodices with padding in the bodice front are quite common. I've found it on approximately 30%-40% of the originals I've examined. The most common version is a crescent shaped pad that begins approximately halfway down the front armscye curve and ends beneath the arm. Properly fitted corsets from the mid-Victorian era raise the bustline (back to where it was when you were "young and perky" ). If your breast/upper chest tissue is soft, you can "sag" inside the corset. This will create a horizontal fold in the front bodice beginning at the armscye and pointing toward or slightly above the bust point. The padding fills in this hollow space and creates the nicely-rounded curve typical of the silhouette of this period. Your cup size has nothing to do with whether you may or may not need the padding; I've had students that were an F cup that needed it while a smaller cup size did not. It's strictly a matter of muscle tone and the fit of the corset. Rolling the shoulder seam further to the back usually does not have any effect, unless the bodice is too long over the upper chest (between neckline and bustline). You will also find many originals where the padding is an elongated oval extending from the shoulder to below the bust; this padding usually does not extend into the armscye. This is more common on dresses from the 1840s and early 1850s than on dresses later in the century. In this case the padding is used to increase and round the bustline to achieve the fashionable silhouette. I've also examined original dress shields from the period. They look very much like modern dress shields: a crescent-shaped piece of glazed or rubberized fabric (usually linen) that is placed under the arm. TSome are single layer, others are double (one half on each side of the armscye seam); they are not padded; and they do not extend beyond the bottom of the armscye curve on to the front or back of the dress. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Citizens of the 1860s Conference - March 4-7, 2003 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:20:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKKoqa013348 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:20:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKKucf025857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKKt8n007466; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MMxbjv017216 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:59:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1d2.806de47 (24895) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:59:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <1d2.806de47.2bd7234d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:59:25 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Cavalier Help! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings and Salutations! I have just found out that I will need to make a cavalier dress within the next few weeks. The Good News: I am currently unemployed so as long as I am able to go on job interviews, I have all the time I want. I have a very large fabric stash. My beau sews as well, so I have someone in the house to help me. The Bad News: I have almost no lace (but there is a decent place in town I can stoke up at.) Most of my books and notes are in storage. The worst part, I have absolutely no idea where to start. What I think I know: I need a shift/chemise, corset and farthinggale/hoops. The bodice and skirt are separate. Pastel colors are acceptable. Lace is rather appropriate. (You see, I am suddenly hopeless!) So, if you have some a website or pattern to recommend or would be willing to share your knowledge with me, I would greatly appreciate it. Oh, did I mention I have until May 30 to get this accomplished, and that I have to fly with it? Thank you in advance! Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:21:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLJqa013352 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLKcf025898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLJ8n007838; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MNWljv009034 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 208-58-249-226.s226.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.249.226] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1987Fm-0005XC-00; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:32:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3EA5D12C.3040403@rcn.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:33:00 -0400 From: Catelli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200304171800.h3HI0dLu017215@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Glove Etiquette X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kathleen, >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:03:22 -0400 >From: "Lloyd Mitchell" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic > >One of the more amusing topics for me has been the correct use of gloves. > > Another source points out " that if your hostess >does not remove her gloves at the dining table, you are obliged to follow >her example." >Kathleen > > Oh, ICK! Eating with your gloves on. Yuck. Next they'll recommend peas & honey. >One of my favorite "use of gloves in movies" episodes is in "Amistad", >Matthew McConaughey's character comes walking in, late for a formal >dinner, carrying his gloves, and makes a formal point of putting his >gloves on in order to eat. It's as if the gloves were there just for >eating as he didn't arrive with them on. (I doubt they were going by >the above suggestion of if your hostess leaves her gloves on you do to, >or does that only apply to ladies anyway?) > >Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian See above. Gross. I've been doing nineteenth century either too much or not enough. Eat with gloves on (shudder). And I do have spare pairs of gloves; that's not it. Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:21:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLkqa013363 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLacf025934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLa8n008058; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MNWljv009033 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 208-58-249-226.s226.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.249.226] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1987Fm-0005XC-00; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:32:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3EA5D12C.3040403@rcn.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:33:00 -0400 From: Catelli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200304171800.h3HI0dLu017215@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Glove Etiquette X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kathleen, >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:03:22 -0400 >From: "Lloyd Mitchell" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Etiquette - Not Really Off Topic > >One of the more amusing topics for me has been the correct use of gloves. > > Another source points out " that if your hostess >does not remove her gloves at the dining table, you are obliged to follow >her example." >Kathleen > > Oh, ICK! Eating with your gloves on. Yuck. Next they'll recommend peas & honey. >One of my favorite "use of gloves in movies" episodes is in "Amistad", >Matthew McConaughey's character comes walking in, late for a formal >dinner, carrying his gloves, and makes a formal point of putting his >gloves on in order to eat. It's as if the gloves were there just for >eating as he didn't arrive with them on. (I doubt they were going by >the above suggestion of if your hostess leaves her gloves on you do to, >or does that only apply to ladies anyway?) > >Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian See above. Gross. I've been doing nineteenth century either too much or not enough. Eat with gloves on (shudder). And I do have spare pairs of gloves; that's not it. Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:21:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLnqa013366 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLscf025962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKLq8n008326; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MNvLXA024448 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:57:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ppp052148.usmo.com ([209.248.52.148] helo=hppav) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1987dY-00072M-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:57:20 -0400 Message-ID: <00d901c3092a$ed24e380$9434f8d1@hppav> From: "Genie" To: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:57:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My reaction was WOW. This was my fifth CC and we could definately have called it the h-costume con. Met Teddy Thursday in the lobby while waiting to go on one of the safari's (fabric and trims and books, oh my). He was wearing the mulit color sweater and I kept thinking I should know him. When it finally finally clicked in my brain I introduced my self. Had a nice chat with him in the hall later on with my daughter. The dealers rooms were great, Alter Years had it's own room. And Margo, and Robyn, and, and etc. We have already signed up for next year in Decatur. And be still my heart, my daughter wants to join in the historical masquerade presentation our group is planning. Ask Robyn about not recognizing three of us in the SF&F masquerade Saturday evening. White makeup and black wigs make great disguises. Still coming down from the fun, and we had to leave on Sunday afternoon (darn) and missed the historical masq. Genie p.s. Some people were going to speak to the con chair about the photos. A number of us usally take all the pic's from the masquerades to have and archive of the con. Don't know if it will be possible with this one. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:22:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKMOqa013375 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:22:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKMEcf026021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKMD8n008622; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3N0FGXA006408 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 390 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2003 00:57:42 -0000 Received: from 66-44-114-215.s723.apx3.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.114.215) by shada.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2003 00:57:42 -0000 Message-ID: <3EA5CFA3.5060008@oldwaylane.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:26:27 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon References: <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <5.1.0.14.0.20030422102508.00a24820@pop3.norton.antivirus> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030422102508.00a24820@pop3.norton.antivirus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: > I did pretty well myself in the novice category. It's the first time > that I had ever > entered a masquerade and I won best novice workmanship, best of class in > novice, > and got an honorable mention for my documentation. I was so excited! > It was a black and white day dress from 1894. > My doll got an award too. (but it was sf/fantasy, not historical). Good! I'm so glad you got those wins, you were marvelous. I could hardly tell a thing from out in the lobby, so I really didn't know too much of who won in the various categories. I loved your presentation, it was great! so now you'll have to work up a Journeyman entry. Atlanta is next year. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:23:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKNAqa013383 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:23:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKN7cf026182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKN68n009448; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.mn.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3N2Ps8s012666 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.24.230]) by mail2.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:25:53 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422212603.02de0d70@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:27:43 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030422102508.00a24820@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:38 AM 4/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I did pretty well myself in the novice category. It's the first time that >I had ever >entered a masquerade and I won best novice workmanship, best of class in >novice, >and got an honorable mention for my documentation. I was so excited! >It was a black and white day dress from 1894. >My doll got an award too. (but it was sf/fantasy, not historical). >Sheryl Nance-Durst Doh! How could I forget to mention you! I didn't actually get to meet you but I did recognize your name. She looked stunning and it was hard to believe she was in the novice category. I really hope pictures from the Con get posted soon. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:23:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKNVqa013390 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:23:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKNfcf026245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKNf8n009898; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.mn.rr.com (fe1.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3N2TJ8s014165 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.24.230]) by mail1.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:29:17 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422213302.02dceb60@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:33:49 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030422102508.00a24820@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] change of email X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, If anyone is trying to reach me, my email address changed this past week. dannw@attbi.com will no longer work. The new email is dannw@mn.rr.com Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:24:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKOIqa013394 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:24:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKOKcf026323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKOK8n010352; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21403.mail.yahoo.com (web21403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3N3S0l6010379 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030423032759.25971.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.211.65.97] by web21403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:27:59 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:27:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030418142853.03f41e30@jagor.srce.hr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] system test (no messages received for 24 hours) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO just checking, since I'm apparently not receiving any messages from the list. Angharad __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKPLqa013402 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKPOcf026503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKPM8n011457; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:25:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3N492ou029305 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.f7.2b41bc27 (657) for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:08:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:08:54 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance Footnotes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there a member of this list that belongs to the following url? http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/index3.html Thanks, Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:25:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKPoqa013409 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:25:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKPtcf026578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKPr8n011917; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.wvu.edu (mx2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3N4NAou006024 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wvucommon9a.wvu.edu (wvucommon9a.wvu.edu [157.182.140.227]) by mx2.wvu.edu (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id h3N4MsFD008020 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu ([157.182.215.110]) by wvucommon9a.wvu.edu (NAVGW 2.5.2.9) with SMTP id M2003042300225313469 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:22:53 -0400 Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:22:54 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.3 Beta Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:22:36 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores in SC? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3N4NAou006024 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> My favorite South Carolina fabric store is Ninety-Six Fabrics in >> Ninety-Six, SC. >And where, please, is Ninety-Six? Guess it's just up the road from Eighty-Four, PA! ;) And it's famous for Eighty-Four Lumber! Sorry, I just couldn't resist..... Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:26:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKQrqa013415 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:26:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKQxcf026765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKQv8n012996; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f59.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3N577BF024738 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:07:02 -0700 Received: from 68.6.212.114 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 05:07:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.6.212.114] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 05:07:01 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2003 05:07:02.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[2CE26DA0:01C30956] Subject: [h-cost] Peter Pan Collars X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Everyone. Does anyone know the origin of the Peter Pan collar? And what it was called before the invention of Peter Pan? We were draping collars tonight in class and I started wondering about this. I thought someone on this list would surely know the answer. There are so many knowledable people here. Thanks! :)jessica _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:27:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKRRqa013418 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKRVcf026853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKRT8n013534; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3N6L2MC027383 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0EC4C2006E; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:21:32 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0CE755402A4; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:21:02 -0500 Message-ID: <021401c30960$4cba6420$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 02:19:29 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] This is so funny X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shashy put up a funny webpage of old wives' tales from a 1919 book called "How to Have a Beautiful Child." http://www.grannyscloset.net/beauchild.htm It is so funny... I was a victim of old wives' tales from my mother when I was pregnant with my first child. She swore that my child would be marked or deformed because I went to see the movie The Exorcist when I was pregnant. Mom said that if I saw something scary while pregnant and touched a place on my body, especially my stomach, my child would be marked for life. LOL!!! You should have seen me... 19 y.o. sitting in the theater holding on to the arm-rests, scared to death to touch any part of my body. Yes, the movie was scary, but I was more scared of marking my baby for life. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:28:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKSRqa013422 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:28:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKSAcf026942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKS98n014168; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NCoHdh006605 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 06:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.127]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 142205EE1DE for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:50:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c30997$0b1086d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:51:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] update of embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I have updated on the dressdiary. The end is near of the embroidery. Then someone has purchaised me to embroider an 18th century stomacher, and i have made the design: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/stomacherdesign She wants me to make her a corset and a panier, she can not afford to get a dress, but then she wanted me to make her a stomacher to match the corset. I will really enjoy to make that stomacher........ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:29:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKT2qa013424 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:29:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKQccf026732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:26:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKQa8n012636; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3N4X5ou010693 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-12hc5uh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.23.209] helo=earthlink.net) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 198BwO-0001Sj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:33:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3EA6176E.9090702@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:32:46 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm considering teaching a class at an uncoming event on research methods and mistakes. I can handle the "how to do research" part just fine. What I'd like is suggestions of mistakes people commonly make in doing research. What sorts of things would you like to see included in such a class? Thanks, --Charlene -- Music is now so foolish that I am amazed. Everything that is wrong is permitted, and no attention is paid to what the old generation wrote as composition. -- Samuel Scheidt (1651) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:51:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKptqa013482 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:51:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKpmcf001084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKpl8n007332; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:51:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NDmcEu005721 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3NDmap22943.; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:48:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:48:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:48:17 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] attaching tops to bottoms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3NDmcEu005721 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO See www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/PhraseAndFable/data/131.html Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mikes@dandy.net 04/18/03 04:03am >>> >Hi, All. Kate, I am not familiar with the text of the Commonwealth Bible vis a vis the earlier Geneva or King James. I was always told that the >Commonwealth was a differently annotated Geneva, but I don't know. I will try and locate the source of the "breeches" thing as regards >the pattern, but I have had this in my mind for years. I'll >also check my Geneva and KJ for any variations in Genesis that I can report. Mike T. . > > >> I've never heard that one before; I always understood the "Breeches Bible" was an edition that contained an oddity of translation >>whereby Adam & Eve are described as making "breeches" of fig leaves rather than the usual "aprons". A friend and I were shown a copy >>at St.David's Cathedral once. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 16:57:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKvEqa013501 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:57:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKqEcf001150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKqD8n007685; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f36.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NEa5GF003962 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:35:59 -0700 Received: from 62.253.32.6 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:35:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.253.32.6] X-Originating-Email: [jennierussell@hotmail.com] From: "jennie russell" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:35:59 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2003 14:35:59.0576 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8621580:01C309A5] Subject: [h-cost] fabric suppliers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HI, This is the first time I've posted anything on this list, although i've been recieving it for a little while and its been so cool see some of the things you guys have been making!! what a talented bunch of people!! I am currently designing and making my wedding dress, which is going to be of somewhat of a medieval nature (although not strictly acurate in all things i think) My problem at the moment is this, I am based in the UK (although I will be visiting Denver in june to visit my fiance) and I am trying to find some interesting silks to use, I want something a little unusual for the bodice.....ummm...so if anyone has any ideas of suppliers in the U.K or U.S or online it would be a huge help! thanks!! Jennie _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 17:00:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL0Cqa013513 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:00:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL0Ccf002704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL0B7p015869; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKe88n026349 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.196.130.120] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 82700411; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c309d8$7d101de0$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: , References: <20030423170002.31570.41491.Mailman@blackstar.ansteorra.org> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:39:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am considering offering my services in blackworking to the cast at the Renn Faire I am just getting involved in. The problm is I have never done anything like this before and have no idea what/how to price. I don't want to make it so exorbitant that no one wants it, but I don't want to sell myself short either. Can anyone here who has done this before (Bjarne?) give me some pointers? Thanks ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 17:01:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL1Iqa013519 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:01:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL1Lcf002860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL1KTG016912; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:01:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3NKmd8n004318 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 25131 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2003 20:48:38 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2003 20:48:38 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-141.sonic.net [209.148.112.141]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3NKmcX17222 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:48:38 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030423133826.00a99828@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:49:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes In-Reply-To: <3EA6176E.9090702@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Assuming that only one or two types of source are valid and only examining those, instead of all information available. Assuming all secondary sources are worthless. Assuming that because other people in your group say something is true, it is. Assuming that because people outside your group say something is true, it must be false. Assuming that only designated "experts" should research and everyone else should simply accept what they say. Using research and its results as a tool for social competition. Assuming that what people wore in any given period can be boiled down to a short, strongly worded set of "facts" and that nothing beyond this is valid. Assuming that an ultimate truth about the past can be always (or even usually!) be discerned. Fran At 11:32 PM 4/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I'm considering teaching a class at an uncoming event on research methods >and mistakes. I can handle the "how to do research" part just fine. What >I'd like is suggestions of mistakes people commonly make in doing >research. What sorts of things would you like to see included in such a class? Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 17:03:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL3tqa013523 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL3rcf003478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NL3rTG020021; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NKts7p011298 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h3NKtr3m019311 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:55:54 -0400 Message-Id: <200304232055.h3NKtr3m019311@jefferson.patriot.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:52:46 -0000 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes From: X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Charlene Charette said: > I'm considering teaching a class at an uncoming event on research > methods and mistakes. I can handle the "how to do research" part just > fine. What I'd like is suggestions of mistakes people commonly make in > doing research. What sorts of things would you like to see included in > such a class? > > Thanks, > --Charlene Hi Charlene, I don't know if it's mistakes or misinterpretations - museum objects can be different than what is average, things are sometimes saved because they are special. Those pieces of clothing that look like impossible sizes, or impossible to wear, may have been botched alterations. It didn't work, the fabric is too good to throw it away, it lands in a trunk to be studied in a later century. Costumers and reenactors tend to be unusual people, and some want to seek out the exception instead fo the ordinary. We can become so determined to find the incident where someone did someting once that we forget the average life. Collect the information and draw conclusions from there. Don't just collect evidence that supports your own assumptions. That can be just rationalizing what you want rather than learning new information. I don't know if that's what you're looking for as far as mistakes! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 17:31:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLV1qa013582 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:31:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLV0cf006816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLUwTG014716; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:30:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3NLUtTG014598 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsTwCDS0T6NekhKTrFZIOVT+5Gha5617eA==">; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:30:36 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWGVZ579; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:30:36 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:34:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes Message-ID: <20030423.153458.-134071561.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6 From: seamstrix@juno.com cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Assuming that anything in print is true and accurate. Assuming that because it was done one way one time, it was always done that way. Or in other words, one example proves validity. Karen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 17:42:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLgWqa013616 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:42:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLgYcf008297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLgWTG025431; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe19.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLgTTG025344 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:42:24 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe19.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:42:24 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030423133826.00a99828@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:40:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2003 21:42:24.0304 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A11C300:01C309E1] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO True. Also, assuming that because a lot of books say something, it has to be true. You have to remember that a lot of writers just say what others said before, trusting that their research was good. You lose a lot of the original details that way, things get reinterpreted wrong or misquoted, or even maybe the original author didn't interpret something the right way. Hmm, also the problem with book that reinterpret things, such as the Peacock book of costume, in which all the costumes are redrawn, most in the wrong silhouette and a lot I can't find any evidence for. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes > Assuming that only one or two types of source are valid and only examining > those, instead of all information available. > > Assuming all secondary sources are worthless. > > Assuming that because other people in your group say something is true, it is. > > Assuming that because people outside your group say something is true, it > must be false. > > Assuming that only designated "experts" should research and everyone else > should simply accept what they say. > > Using research and its results as a tool for social competition. > > Assuming that what people wore in any given period can be boiled down to a > short, strongly worded set of "facts" and that nothing beyond this is valid. > > Assuming that an ultimate truth about the past can be always (or even > usually!) be discerned. > > Fran > > > > At 11:32 PM 4/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >I'm considering teaching a class at an uncoming event on research methods > >and mistakes. I can handle the "how to do research" part just fine. What > >I'd like is suggestions of mistakes people commonly make in doing > >research. What sorts of things would you like to see included in such a class? > > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 17:46:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLktqa013633 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLkncf008886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:46:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLknTG028858; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLklTG028767 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:46:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1c2.893a2ec (3657) for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:46:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c2.893a2ec.2bd863be@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:46:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cavalier Help! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/23/2003 4:22:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kitsune242@aol.com writes: > What I think I know: I need a shift/chemise, corset and farthinggale/hoops. > > The bodice and skirt are separate. Pastel colors are acceptable. Lace is > rather appropriate. (You see, I am suddenly hopeless!) > Actually, most Cavalier bodices are boned to death and not corseted. I made the pattern for a 1660s bodice right from Jean Honnesette's book [had to adjust the boning pattern a little] and it looked great! I set the chemise sleeve into the bodice [under the cartridge pleated sleeve...which was not from the book. I hate her sleeve patterns. It was just a rectangle c-pleated into the armseye and gently gathered into a turned up cuff that came to just below the elbow] and faked the wide chemise neck that spilled over the horizontal neckline. It's just easier to control that way. It was for stage. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 17:48:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLm2qa013639 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:48:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLgtcf008352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLgtTG025737; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:42:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NLgpTG025693 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f22.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.34]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C8C6262936 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:42:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000a01c309e1$7d4e2230$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d2.806de47.2bd7234d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cavalier Help! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:44:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I made a cavalier style dress many years ago. It was an early one from 1625. It had a standing wired collar edged with lace i had taken from chinese tablecloths. I starched the lace and i made cuffs to match it. The dress consisted of an underskirt wich shows center front, a separate embroidered stomacher wich was hooked to the sides of the overdress. The overdress sleaves had 2 puffs and another sleave over them called a Virago Sleave. The corset had large "tabs" wich was starched (not boned) to help support the skirt wich was unnatural high. The skirt needed some petticoats to support the skirt, and no farthingale or hoops was used in this time. I used a pattern from a book called "Evolution of Fashion" pattern and cut by Margot Hammilton Hill and Peter A Bucknell. This book is made for stage costumes, but considering no patterns have survived from this period, (except for some bodices) i will say, that they are pretty good. Only the cut of the skirt, wich is cut like a sun, is not right in my oppinion, i would say they cut the skirt straight and gathered the width into the bodice. This is the time where all women looks pregnant, well they were pregnant pretty often, but it was the fashion to look this way, The men, showed their expensive stomach's stoutly and proud, their waist was raised like the womens. I wish you good luck, and if you have more questions, just ask, and i shall answer as good as i can. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:59 AM Subject: [h-cost] Cavalier Help! > Greetings and Salutations! > > I have just found out that I will need to make a cavalier dress within the > next few weeks. > > The Good News: I am currently unemployed so as long as I am able to go on job > interviews, I have all the time I want. I have a very large fabric stash. > My beau sews as well, so I have someone in the house to help me. > > The Bad News: I have almost no lace (but there is a decent place in town I > can stoke up at.) Most of my books and notes are in storage. The worst > part, I have absolutely no idea where to start. > > What I think I know: I need a shift/chemise, corset and farthinggale/hoops. > The bodice and skirt are separate. Pastel colors are acceptable. Lace is > rather appropriate. (You see, I am suddenly hopeless!) > > So, if you have some a website or pattern to recommend or would be willing to > share your knowledge with me, I would greatly appreciate it. > > Oh, did I mention I have until May 30 to get this accomplished, and that I > have to fly with it? > > Thank you in advance! > Kit > > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 18:06:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NM6Xqa013752 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:06:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NM1ccf010614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:01:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NM1ZpC011979; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NM1TpC011819 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f22.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.34]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3937826290A for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:01:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002801c309e4$18b340a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030423170002.31570.41491.Mailman@blackstar.ansteorra.org> <002001c309d8$7d101de0$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:02:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Well you shouldnt ask me, because i dont have it for a living. I know you shall not sell yourself cheap, but i am in such a possition, that if people payed me what i earn, they would never never be able to buy from me. And i would never never do anything. And i have it as prime passion of all things, so i say, that people should be able to buy. I can give you an example, this stomacher, i have just made the design for. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/stomacherdesign I am to embroider it to match a corset wich i also is going to make. For this stomacher i will be payed 100 dollars. I know you say i am chrazy, but i would rather die, if i didnt get any orders, because i love it and i am glad that someone likes my things and wants to use it. I told you you should not ask me, but this is the true story of my costume living. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork > I am considering offering my services in blackworking to the cast at the > Renn Faire I am just getting involved in. The problm is I have never done > anything like this before and have no idea what/how to price. I don't want > to make it so exorbitant that no one wants it, but I don't want to sell > myself short either. Can anyone here who has done this before (Bjarne?) give > me some pointers? Thanks > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 18:24:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMOtqa013778 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMOwcf013656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMOtpC002524; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:24:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMOnpC002323 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:24:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85ED112580 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7131011217A for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <041e01c309e1$56aa5180$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com><3EA53B56.6000304@oldwaylane.net> <3EA5C274.20408@accessus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:43:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO but I did get a workmanship award for my > handquilted petticoat, so I was happy. Oooh! Pictures please? That's one of my "very near future projects"! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 18:51:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMpEqa013854 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:51:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMpDcf016838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMpBpC023271; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:51:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMp7pC023156 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003042322510200200o3mbte>; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:51:02 +0000 Message-ID: <3EA718D7.7030902@fenris.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:51:03 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes References: <3EA6176E.9090702@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3EA6176E.9090702@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Charlene Charette wrote: > I'm considering teaching a class at an uncoming event on research > methods and mistakes. I can handle the "how to do research" part just > fine. What I'd like is suggestions of mistakes people commonly make > in doing research. What sorts of things would you like to see > included in such a class? > assuming that, because such and such a thing is done or exists in, say 1600, and also in 1200, that it was also done/existed at all the times in between (assumption takes the place of concrete examples for 1300, 1400, 1500) liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 18:57:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMvNqa013860 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:57:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMvVcf017589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:57:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMvUwC028094; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NMvRwC028060 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:57:26 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423180127.00a131b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:02:30 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <3EA5CFA3.5060008@oldwaylane.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030422102508.00a24820@pop3.norton.antivirus> <001101c305c3$8d2b1b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <5.1.0.14.0.20030422102508.00a24820@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Good! I'm so glad you got those wins, you were marvelous. I could > hardly tell a thing from out in the lobby, so I really didn't know too > much of who won in the various categories. I loved your presentation, it > was great! so now you'll have to work up a Journeyman entry. Atlanta is > next year. > -Judy Mitchell Thanks! Unfortunately, Atlanta is too far for me to drive. I'll be in Des Moines in 2006, though. That's only 2 1/2 hours away from me. Sheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 19:12:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNCpqa013885 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:12:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NND0cf019271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNCrwC009445; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:12:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f46.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNCnwC009322 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:12:43 -0700 Received: from 151.199.156.190 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:12:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.156.190] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:12:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2003 23:12:43.0752 (UTC) FILETIME=[D84FE680:01C309ED] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A big mistake is being unwilling to admit you are doing something against the historical evidence. For example, if you have twelve primary sources that tell you everyone everywhere wore fuchsia farthingales on Twelfth Night, and you would rather die than wear one, wear want you like for Twelfth Night and say (should anyone be rude enough to inquire as to why you aren't wearing a fuchsia farthingale) that you hate fuchsia and farthingales and chose not to make one. You can choose to be unhistorical, but be honest about it. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Charlene Charette >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: H-Costume List >Subject: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:32:46 -0500 > >I'm considering teaching a class at an uncoming event on research methods >and mistakes. I can handle the "how to do research" part just fine. What >I'd like is suggestions of mistakes people commonly make in doing research. > What sorts of things would you like to see included in such a class? > >Thanks, >--Charlene > >-- >Music is now so foolish that I am amazed. Everything that is wrong is >permitted, and no attention is paid to what the old generation wrote as >composition. -- Samuel Scheidt (1651) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 19:17:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNHMqa013892 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:17:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNHacf019608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNHZwC012449; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNHWwC012422 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:17:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C505B7A856 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 04429-06 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-152.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.152]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4BE7A805 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:17:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Peter Pan Collars Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well a Peter Pan collar is pretty much the same thing as a cavalier style large 'falling' collar, at least draping/drafting wise... On Tuesday, April 22, 2003, at 10:07 PM, jessica stier wrote: > > > Hi Everyone. > > Does anyone know the origin of the Peter Pan collar? And what it was > called before the invention of Peter Pan? > > We were draping collars tonight in class and I started wondering about > this. I thought someone on this list would surely know the answer. > There are so many knowledable people here. > > Thanks! > :)jessica > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 19:19:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNJ9qa013897 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:19:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNJFcf019704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNJDwC013430; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:19:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNJ7wC013378 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3NNIHi01563 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:18:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304232318.h3NNIHi01563@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Norwescon update (hey, couldn't make CostumeCon!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Queen of Spades (ok, so I looked a lot like >Maleficent...in midnight blue, black/silver and tons >of beads) {clip: Styx's "Beware of the Queen of >Spades} I finally got a photo of the Lady Luck costume I did for BayCon a couple years back up online. I really need to get a photo of this one under good lighting. Under the stage lights, it's stunning. The rhinestones are all Swarovski crystal and the applique edging is hologram glitter. And the tiara is a wire frame with cut crystal beads, rhinestones and some gold-leafed polymer clay pieces. http://gw.retro.com/employees/lee/Costume/LadyLuck.jpg And the pseudo-edwardian I did for the SF Gay Pride Parade last year: http://gw.retro.com/employees/lee/Costume/Edwardian.jpg Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 19:30:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNUQqa013916 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNUUcf021842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:30:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNUQwC021472; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:30:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3NNUOwC021438 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:30:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13232 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2003 23:30:23 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2003 23:30:23 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-49.sonic.net [209.148.115.49]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3NNUM220581 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:30:23 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030423162847.00ae6cd0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:31:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes In-Reply-To: <200304232055.h3NKtr3m019311@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Costumers and reenactors tend to be unusual people, and some want to > seek >out the exception instead fo the ordinary. We can become so determined to >find >the incident where someone did someting once that we forget the average life. On the other hand, people sometimes confuse the "average" in their modern group with the historical average. > Collect the information and draw conclusions from there. Don't just >collect evidence that supports your own assumptions. That can be just >rationalizing what you want rather than learning new information. > It helps if people feel OK about wearing or not wearing something just because they want to, rather than having to defend themselves about it all the time. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 19:31:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNVpqa013920 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:31:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNVwcf022072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNVwwC022606; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dc-mx15.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx15.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNVtwC022507 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:31:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.196.130.120] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx15.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 73978203 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:31:49 -0400 Message-ID: <005f01c309f0$79d1cee0$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030423170002.31570.41491.Mailman@blackstar.ansteorra.org><002001c309d8$7d101de0$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> <002801c309e4$18b340a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:31:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Bjarne - it gives me *something* to go off of. I usually don't even look at prices on things like this because I know I can go home and do it myself (given enough time, which is always at premium). PS the stomacher is a beautiful design - I can't wait until you start stitching! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork > Hi. > Well you shouldnt ask me, because i dont have it for a living. I know you > shall not sell yourself cheap, but i am in such a possition, that if people > payed me what i earn, they would never never be able to buy from me. And i > would never never do anything. And i have it as prime passion of all things, > so i say, that people should be able to buy. > I can give you an example, this stomacher, i have just made the design for. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/stomacherdesign > > I am to embroider it to match a corset wich i also is going to make. For > this stomacher i will be payed 100 dollars. I know you say i am chrazy, but > i would rather die, if i didnt get any orders, because i love it and i am > glad that someone likes my things and wants to use it. > I told you you should not ask me, but this is the true story of my costume > living. > > Bjarne > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:39 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork > > > > I am considering offering my services in blackworking to the cast at the > > Renn Faire I am just getting involved in. The problm is I have never done > > anything like this before and have no idea what/how to price. I don't want > > to make it so exorbitant that no one wants it, but I don't want to sell > > myself short either. Can anyone here who has done this before (Bjarne?) > give > > me some pointers? Thanks > > > > ********************** > > Rebecca Schmitt > > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > > ---Cicero > > > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > > ********************** > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 19:45:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNjJqa013952 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:45:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNjUcf024156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNjTwC002212; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5-0.mail.adelphia.net [64.8.50.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNjQwC002165 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adelphia.net ([68.65.179.208]) by mta5.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030423234521.JEFR24575.mta5.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:45:21 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:27:22 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: rob and laurie gage To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200304221418.h3MEIg3R012649@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <397A88E8-75B9-11D7-AE17-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [h-cost] a schole-house for the needle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all! I've been searching the web for a used copy of this book to no avail. I have found several good images on different sites , but I'd really like a copy of my own. The owners of the original (or one of them) are selling repros, but they don't accept credit or debit cards and they don't have an order site. A few needlework merchants sell the repros, but at $45-$50 a pop it's a bit out of my range. Does anyone on the list know where I can get a used copy, or one less expensively? I've checked Barnes and Noble, half.com and Amazon with no results. If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please let me know. Much thanks, Laurie Gage rlgage@adelphia.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 19:54:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNspqa013967 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:54:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNsIcf025069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNsHwC007785; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3NNsFwC007766 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-84.gti.net [208.216.115.84]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id D52B335890 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EA727AC.7AB2BB3A@gti.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:54:20 -0400 From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? References: <3E9B782E.5040003@grics.net> <41224.162.119.64.111.1050339926.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <20030414082134.97256.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20030422011538.038d4ac0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a French company that has hand woven velvet. It is also in the $100/yd category. And I believe they only produce figured velvet. http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/index.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 20:05:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O05Rqa014006 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O05ccf026055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:05:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O05bSS014349; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O05XSS014318 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB537A8DA for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 05172-05 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-152.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.152]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA727A8C2 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:05:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% silk velvet? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3EA727AC.7AB2BB3A@gti.net> Message-Id: <70951F2B-75E8-11D7-9643-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO uh, it looks like it's $100 for a 6" square SAMPLE of the fabric. On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 04:54 PM, martyr@gti.net wrote: > This is a French company that has hand woven velvet. It is also > in the $100/yd category. And I believe they only produce figured > velvet. > http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/index.htm > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 20:14:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0EXqa014045 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:14:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0Eicf026786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0EhSS019600; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0ENSS019337 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDT00D1MNBXEE@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:08:58 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423170742.02cb7860@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/23/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, This question is for those who go to Costume Con. I have never been to one, but would love to go sometime in the near future. You all talk about the competitions and what level people are in... how is this determined? Who decides who is an amateur, journeyman, or master? Is there info someplace on the competitions? I have never done any competitions in costuming before. I live in costume wasteland between the Bay and LA, so this group is a big connection to the costuming world. And I too am looking forward to more photos to drool over. Thanks, Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 20:32:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0WKqa014091 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0WUcf028244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0WTSS000101; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0WRSS029917 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:32:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <20030424003221003006eolae>; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:32:21 +0000 Message-ID: <007f01c309f8$f88745a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c3091f$fee718a0$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:32:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolann Schmitt" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book > the bustline (back to where it was when you were "young and perky" ). If > your breast/upper chest tissue is soft, you can "sag" inside the corset. > This will create a horizontal fold in the front bodice beginning at the > armscye and pointing toward or slightly above the bust point. The padding You can see a great example of this on a dress I recently made (I've been meaning to make a pad to fill in this fold) -- I'm on the right: http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/gaskells2.jpg - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 20:42:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0gKqa014110 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:42:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0gFcf029065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0gESS005842; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0gASS005799 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3174C7A91D for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 05777-02 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-152.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.152]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA1D7A4DE for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:41:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <007f01c309f8$f88745a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Message-Id: <8ADFC6CD-75ED-11D7-9643-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO do you have any pictures of any pads themselves? I'm very curious about this... On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 05:32 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolann Schmitt" > Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book > > > >> the bustline (back to where it was when you were "young and perky" >> ). > If >> your breast/upper chest tissue is soft, you can "sag" inside the >> corset. >> This will create a horizontal fold in the front bodice beginning at >> the >> armscye and pointing toward or slightly above the bust point. The >> padding > > > > You can see a great example of this on a dress I recently made (I've > been > meaning to make a pad to fill in this fold) -- I'm on the right: > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/gaskells2.jpg > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 20:53:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0rBqa014175 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:53:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0rKcf000541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:53:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0rJSS013083; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O0rESS012971 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h3O0r8N17972 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:53:08 +1000 Message-ID: <008c01c309fc$3ace6800$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030422014302.02ce1e30@smtp-server.mn.rr.com><3EA53B56.6000304@oldwaylane.net> <3EA5C274.20408@accessus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:55:41 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is what happens when the convention goes out of the country; not > many people attend, and ideas get backed up. A lot of very experienced > costumers came out of the woodwork to compete again. On the other hand if it came to other countries more often people would come to accept it and more people would attend from the other countries. I felt we had plenty of entries in the parades last year here in Australia. The actual attendance of the con was a bit low but the number of entries seemed adequate. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 21:55:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O1tlqa014275 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:55:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O1twcf006847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:55:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O1tvvh016309; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:55:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O1tqvh016241 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27830 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:14:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:14:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > Also, assuming that because a lot of books say something, it has to be > true. You have to remember that a lot of writers just say what others > said before, trusting that their research was good. Piggybacking on this: I have heard many people say they were taught in school that if they find a fact/assertion/example in three different sources, it's OK to use in a scholarly paper. That rule goes to hell in a handbasket when it comes to costume history, because so many standard sources simply repeat information from earlier sources. So, one early error can get repeated in book after book, and becomes cemented into the canon as fact. Today's students find that same statement in three places and assume it's true, not realizing these are all secondary sources repeating something in another, earlier secondary source. I think half my work involves tracing back assumptions, author to author, till I find the origin of the trail ... which, for medieval costume, is far more likely to be in 1796 or 1834 than in any actual source from the period. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 22:20:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Kbqa014311 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:20:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Kkcf008824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:20:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Kivh029303; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Kfvh029269 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:20:40 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423211740.00a05990@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:25:42 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423170742.02cb7860@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:08 PM 4/23/03 -0700, you wrote: >You all talk about the competitions and what level people are in... how is >this determined? Who decides who is an amateur, journeyman, or master? Is >there info someplace on the competitions? Kimiko, If you've never entered or won a major costume competition (national or regional level), then you are a novice. Once you've won a "best in class" award at the novice level, you move up to journeyman. Then you move up to master once you've won at the journeyman level. Anyone who is a professional must automatically compete at master level. Of course, if you feel confident of your costuming skills, you may enter at the higher levels. You are allowed to compete against the higher levels if you want to do so. You just can't compete BELOW your level. (Like a first-time competitor could enter at master-level if they choose. But an established master winner cannot enter as a novice.) I hope that makes sense. :-) Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 22:22:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Meqa014319 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Mmcf008976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Mlvh000512; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:22:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Mivh000420 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:22:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.206.137.80] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 156982536 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:22:38 -0500 Message-ID: <3EA74B3D.1010301@accessus.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:26:05 -0500 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423170742.02cb7860@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi all, > > This question is for those who go to Costume Con. I have never been to > one, but would love to go sometime in the near future. > > You all talk about the competitions and what level people are in... > how is this determined? Who decides who is an amateur, journeyman, or > master? Is there info someplace on the competitions? There are standard guidelines that go somewhat like this: Do you sew/costume professionally? You are, by default, a master. Otherwise: New to costume competitions? You're a novice. If you win some major award, maybe you should move up to journeyman. Feel you're a pretty good costumer, even if you haven't competed before? Try journeyman. If you win some major award, maybe you should move up to master. > > I have never done any competitions in costuming before. I live in > costume wasteland between the Bay and LA, so this group is a big > connection to the costuming world. Give it a try. There are competitions out there, although most of them are primarily at science fiction conventions and are therefore more SF/fantasy-oriented. If you don't think you can go as far as Atlanta next year, it will be in Utah the year after, and there is a bid for CA in 2008. > > And I too am looking forward to more photos to drool over. If someone else doesn't beat me to it, I'll keep updating the list as other lists post pictures. Karen > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 22:25:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Pjqa014334 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:25:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Pwcf009197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Pwvh001965; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail7.kc.rr.com (fe7.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.162.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Ptvh001952 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail7.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:25:15 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423212936.009f1500@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:31:00 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Norwescon update (hey, couldn't make CostumeCon!) In-Reply-To: <20030422180848.51304.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <010601c304a5$bc65a9c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:08 AM 4/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >Our group, which comprised of two Journeyman Class, >two Novices and the other three models/helpers was >titles "5 of a Kind." Molly and I were doing our >first Journeyman entry and Bronwyn and Mary were >Novices in their first ever contest. All 15th Century >gowns with headpieces (mine was appropriately >silly/menacing as the Queen of Spades)and a Joker with >tights and jerkin. >*gloat* we won Best Workmanship in a Group and BEST IN >SHOW (GROUP)!!! > >Angharad ver' Reynulf Wow! that sounds like a fantastic presentation! Sheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 22:33:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Xsqa014348 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:33:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Y4cf009833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Y3vh006572; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Xxvh006536 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3O2Zwf27605; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:35:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030423193622.00ad1da0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:36:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <3EA74B3D.1010301@accessus.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423170742.02cb7860@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >There are standard guidelines that go somewhat like this: > >Do you sew/costume professionally? You are, by default, a master. >Otherwise: >New to costume competitions? You're a novice. If you win some major >award, maybe you should move up to journeyman. >Feel you're a pretty good costumer, even if you haven't competed before? > Try journeyman. If you win some major award, maybe you should move up >to master. Also, if you do a group entry, everyone competes at the level of the highest ranking person in the group. A group of us, having had an extremely weird idea on Saturday night, are planning a group entry and even though none of us in it have ever won at a higher level than Novice, we have to compete at Master level becasue I'm a pro. I believe that SCA costume laurels are strongly encouraged to compete as Masters, as well, but I'm not sure it's a requirement. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 22:34:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Ydqa014352 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Yjcf009906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Yjvh006958; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2Yhvh006914 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3O2GhT03818 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EA74D8B.3FA2259A@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:35:55 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423170742.02cb7860@127.0.0.1> <3EA74B3D.1010301@accessus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Uh, *kof*, what about someone who's a laurel in the SCA? (I mostly got it for needlework, I think, but probably a tidge in costuming. I have never done costuming professionally.) --sue Karen Heim wrote: > > Kimiko Small wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > This question is for those who go to Costume Con. I have never been to > > one, but would love to go sometime in the near future. > > > > You all talk about the competitions and what level people are in... > > how is this determined? Who decides who is an amateur, journeyman, or > > master? Is there info someplace on the competitions? > > There are standard guidelines that go somewhat like this: > > Do you sew/costume professionally? You are, by default, a master. > Otherwise: > New to costume competitions? You're a novice. If you win some major > award, maybe you should move up to journeyman. > Feel you're a pretty good costumer, even if you haven't competed before? > Try journeyman. If you win some major award, maybe you should move up > to master. > > > > > I have never done any competitions in costuming before. I live in > > costume wasteland between the Bay and LA, so this group is a big > > connection to the costuming world. > > Give it a try. There are competitions out there, although most of them > are primarily at science fiction conventions and are therefore more > SF/fantasy-oriented. If you don't think you can go as far as Atlanta > next year, it will be in Utah the year after, and there is a bid for CA > in 2008. > > > > > And I too am looking forward to more photos to drool over. > > If someone else doesn't beat me to it, I'll keep updating the list as > other lists post pictures. > > Karen > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 22:52:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2qXqa014384 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:52:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2qjcf011266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2qivh016196; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2qfvh016173 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.101.209.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.101.209] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 198Wqm-0000OU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:52:41 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423224953.039f7ea8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:52:30 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >I think half my work involves tracing back assumptions, author to author, >till I find the origin of the trail ... which, for medieval costume, is >far more likely to be in 1796 or 1834 than in any actual source from the >period. Anything specific about those years -- or did you mention them just as an example that things we assume to be "ancient" are relatively "recent" (I've found the same thing about some "traditional" Irish and American "folk" songs)... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 22:59:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2xVqa014395 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:59:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2xecf011849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2xc4G019730; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O2xZ4G019698 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-209.246.101.209.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.101.209] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 198WxS-0002fj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:59:35 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423225254.039a4420@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:59:24 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Costume competitions (WAS: Re: [h-cost] back from CostumeCon) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Karen Heim wrote: >...There are [costuming] competitions out there, although most of them are >primarily at science fiction conventions and are therefore more >SF/fantasy-oriented. Do be wary about the competitions at SF/F cons. Depending on the con, some of the competitions are more of a popularity contest, and some are more of a presentation/acting contest, than a costuming contest. (Be particularly wary of costume competitions held at "professionally-promoted" SF/F cons such as those run by Creation, Slanted Fedora, and that ilk. I've seen someone purchase an original-series STAR TREK top, crudely shove on a pair of pointed ears, walk on stage as if he were his mundane self, and yet win as "Spock" at a Creation con over competitors with well-thought-out, well-executed costumes and presentations.) The competitions at the major *fan-run* cons (e.g., Shore Leave) tend to be better-run and more about skills and workmanship, though. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 23:01:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O312qa014403 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O319cf011918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3184G020398; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3154G020312 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.54.185.111]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDT00F78UY41D@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:58:56 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz To: margospatterns@yahoogroups.com, h-costume Message-id: <3EA752F0.2030904@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 References: <1051073644.2317.30261.m9@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, to be honest, I got back at about 2 am on Tuesday morning... but having driven straight (whoever the idiot doing the scheduling for repair-work on the Ohio Turnpike outside Toledo who thinks that 5pm is an ideal time to take Jersey barriers off of flatbeds (remember, they do swing when they're lifted... limiting the lanes moving to *one* every time one goes up) ought to be strung up by the wires that were moving those things) from Chicago leaving at the equivalent of 11:30 on Monday morning... well, my brain has only recently caught up with the rest of me... at least the part that wasn't busy telling me how to avoid what, and to get smart and pull over for 20 minutes during one particularly nasty downpour right around midnight. I've been to *lots* of cons in the past... and this was my third Costume Con... I would not be exaggerating to say that it was by far the best con I've ever been to as far as the people were concerned. (ignoring the grumbling about certain glitches... especially the cancelled w/o warning classes and the Masquerades that went to midnight... equivalent to 1am East Coast time) Thank you, thank you, thank you to those wonderful ladies who helped me out big time during my discussions. I pass on to you now that I had quite a few compliments on the discussions... and since I mostly just said hi and got them rolling, the bulk of that goes to you (and those who spoke out from the audience). I'm miffed I missed Teddy's story... and the gathering by only 10 minutes or so... and I was still awake so I *could* have been there... oh well. *I* got to hear Tom's play by play (anyone know who it was who was helping him out making us laugh? I couldn't turn around that far easily) of the Iron Costumer competition... which was good enough that a couple of us were seriously tempted to stage a coup and get them up there in place of the real announcer :-) I got to see most of the Masquerade costumes... some closer than others. Saw many things in the hall to envy and admire. Listened to others talk about many interesting costuming topics (and actually managed to stay awake even for the slide shows that were way too dim for someone who hadn't had enough sleep). And met so many people who "I wanna be like when I grow up" that I know I need more than two hands to count them up. The oddest thing of all for me was that not only did I recognize a few people from the last CC I managed to get to, about 6 years ago, but I had two who recognized me from back then... when I was a *total* newbie. I took no pictures, having left my camera behind, and not remembering when I had time and the store was open to go and get a disposable or two... so now I'm waiting anxiously for it to be time to expect the CD of pictures I ordered to arrive, so I can look at some of the costumes on the computer again. Sigh... now to try to figure out how I could make the trip down to Atlanta next year.... and whether I should take the whole family so my kids can visit with their cousins... *g* Not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that the Atlanta CC is going to be more than a week before the Georgia Ren. Faire opens... -Liz (rambling enough that I know I still don't have all my mind back :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 23:10:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3AMqa014420 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3Aacf012736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:10:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3AZ4G025283; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3AW4G025275 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28209 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:29:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:29:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030423224953.039f7ea8@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Brenda Bell wrote: > Robin Netherton wrote: > > >I think half my work involves tracing back assumptions, author to author, > >till I find the origin of the trail ... which, for medieval costume, is > >far more likely to be in 1796 or 1834 than in any actual source from the > >period. > > Anything specific about those years -- or did you mention them just as > an example that things we assume to be "ancient" are relatively > "recent" (I've found the same thing about some "traditional" Irish and > American "folk" songs)... 1796: The publication of the first major history of English dress, titled "A Complete View of the Dress and Habits of the People of England, from the establishment of the Saxons in Britain to the present time: Illustrated by engravings taken from the most authentic remains of antiquity, to which is prefixed an introduction, containing a general description of the ancient habits in use among mankind, from the earliest period of time to the conclusion of the seventh century," by Joseph Strutt. 1834: first of three editions of James Robinson Planche's "History of British Costume from the Earliest Period to the Close of the Eighteenth Century." Planche wrote other books, including a "new and improved" version of Strutt, but this was his initial opus. Planche is responsible for a large number of later misconceptions about medieval dress. I showed some interesting case examples from these books, and others, in a talk on the history of costume history this past weekend at CostumeCon. I think some people from this list were there ;-) I'll be giving it again at KWCS in Denver, in October, with more slides and details. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 23:21:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3LGqa014435 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3LVcf013464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3LU4G000526; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3LQ4G000463 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.129.286b73d5 (1320) for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <129.286b73d5.2bd8b22d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:21:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Margo's Costume Con Report (Shoemaking) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Margo, Please tell us more about the shoemaking book you bought. I'm just getting into this area and would appreciate any recommendations. I already have the MOL book but find it somewhat vague in a few areas. Thanks, Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 23 23:38:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3coqa014456 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:38:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3cucf014822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3ct4G009399; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O3cp4G009376 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:38:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28292 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:57:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:57:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con In-Reply-To: <3EA752F0.2030904@comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Cozit / Liz wrote: > Thank you, thank you, thank you to those wonderful ladies who helped > me out big time during my discussions. I pass on to you now that I > had quite a few compliments on the discussions... and since I mostly > just said hi and got them rolling, the bulk of that goes to you (and > those who spoke out from the audience). I had to miss these sessions, though I was hoping to go. I had to miss almost everything in terms of programming, at least on Saturday, because I was speaking myself nearly all day -- five lectures! I managed to make it to Stevie Gamble's fur and leather session, and to most of Melanie Wilson's dyeing class on Sunday (but missed her Anglo-Saxon on Saturday), and to Karen (seamstrix)'s class on research methods. I think there were really two cons going on at once -- the historic one secretively wrapped inside the more conventional CostumeCon, with classes on modern methods and material use. > I got to see most of the Masquerade costumes... some closer than > others. Saw many things in the hall to envy and admire. Listened to > others talk about many interesting costuming topics (and actually > managed to stay awake even for the slide shows that were way too dim > for someone who hadn't had enough sleep). guilty... > And met so many people who "I wanna be like when I grow up" that I > know I need more than two hands to count them up. I saw red H's everywhere I looked. I knew Drea, Danielle, Ann (Catelli) and Karen (seamstrix) already. Finally I got to meet in person a bunch of Brits I practically felt I knew -- Teddy (and Tom), Melanie, Stevie. And I met Kate McClure (who, bless her, let me use her room to stash stuff and change clothes), both Allisons, Christine (Icegirl) and her friend Deanna, Sheryl N-D, Judy Mitchell, others I am forgetting now. Liz, I think I missed you! But after a while it was a blur. I knew a lot of the St. Louis people already (including Genie and Karen Heim) from having gone to a local costumer's guild meeting here in prep for the Con, but I was completely blown away by the quantity and quality (both!) of the costumes they brought. My mind boggles at people who can produce this many incredible realizations of concepts so creative. I do not think (or work) like this, so it was all fascinating to me. Dr. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, the Three Little Maids, and the Peahen Suit come to mind from the St. Louis group alone (and what were the names of the marionette presentation, and the stained glass window? I've forgotten). People have already mentioned the two masquerades, which were a very different sort of competition than I'm used to; much more of an emphasis on stage show, with workmanship judged separately. My favorite event, though, was the Future Fashion Folio. This happens in two parts: Designers submit costume designs for futuristic or otherwise themed clothing, and are judged and given awards for these designs in advance of the con. Then the winning designs are published in a book, and volunteers can choose designs to sew up in real fabric. These interpretations are then presented fashion-show style, and also judged. Designers have the first right of refusal on sewing their own designs, so if you've got a hankering to design and make a creation, you can do that. There are then awards for best costume made by its own designer, and also for best interpretation of someone else's design. (I think I have this correct -- I hope one of the more knowledgeable people will set me straight if I'm confused.) The latter award went to H-Cost member Pierre Pettinger making a "Fractal Robe" designed by H-Cost member Ann/Catelli, who took a standard medieval garment and added extra gores on a fractal pattern, oooh my. I don't plan on going to another CostumeCon for a while, as actually *making* costumes is not really my thing anymore. It was fun to watch, though. I'll certainly be at the St. Louis CC in, hmm, 2007 or so. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 00:07:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O47Kqa014547 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O47Vcf016930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O47UPs023580; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.mn.rr.com (fe1.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O47SPs023559 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:07:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.24.230]) by mail1.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:07:28 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030423230936.02e500e0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:11:09 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con In-Reply-To: <3EA752F0.2030904@comcast.net> References: <1051073644.2317.30261.m9@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:58 PM 4/23/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I'm miffed I missed Teddy's story... and the gathering by only 10 minutes >or so... and I was still awake so I *could* have been there... oh >well. *I* got to hear Tom's play by play (anyone know who it was who was >helping him out making us laugh? I couldn't turn around that far easily) >of the Iron Costumer competition... which was good enough that a couple >of us were seriously tempted to stage a coup and get them up there in >place of the real announcer :-) Uh, that was me. Guilty as charged. It was a lot of fun to be that silly.... It was a shame you missed Teddy's recitation - we were all holding our sides from laughing too hard. It was nice to have met you at brunch! Cheers, Daniellle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 00:16:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O4GYqa014563 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:16:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O4Gfcf017442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O4GePs027751; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:16:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O4GdPs027699 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.206.137.80] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 157009780 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:16:32 -0500 Message-ID: <3EA765F0.5020300@accessus.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:20:00 -0500 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Cozit / Liz wrote: > > >I had to miss these sessions, though I was hoping to go. I had to miss >almost everything in terms of programming, at least on Saturday, because I >was speaking myself nearly all day -- five lectures! I managed to make it >to Stevie Gamble's fur and leather session, and to most of Melanie >Wilson's dyeing class on Sunday (but missed her Anglo-Saxon on Saturday), >and to Karen (seamstrix)'s class on research methods. I think there were >really two cons going on at once -- the historic one secretively wrapped >inside the more conventional CostumeCon, with classes on modern methods >and material use. > And I pretty much didn't have time to attend panels in either part. I felt a little awkward introducing myself to any of you, so I mostly didn't - I can be shy; that's why I hang out with my friend Nora, who is very bold. I did meet Teddy, though. > >I saw red H's everywhere I looked. > And some people who should have been wearing them weren't. What's up with that, folks; were you lurking, too? >I knew Drea, > Saw her, but was running from one thing to another, so we didn't meet (see above). >Stevie > Listened to part of a conversation she was having in the con suite. >Christine (Icegirl) > We were in the same den in the Historical masquerade; if I hadn't been competing, I would have jumped in to help. > >Sheryl N-D > Who had a very nice dress in the masquerade. > Judy Mitchell > Who told us all about her outfit; wish I'd seen the documentation. > >I knew a lot of the St. Louis people already (including Genie and Karen >Heim) from having gone to a local costumer's guild meeting here in prep >for the Con, but I was completely blown away by the quantity and quality >(both!) of the costumes they brought. > I didn't even get to wear everything I brought! I had an 1883 afternoon dress that I was hoping to show off - maybe in Atlanta. > My mind boggles at people who can >produce this many incredible realizations of concepts so creative. I do >not think (or work) like this, so it was all fascinating to me. Dr. >Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, the Three Little Maids, and the Peahen >Suit come to mind from the St. Louis group alone (and what were the names >of the marionette presentation > Coeur Perdu in the fantasy and science fiction masq, Coeur Perdu part Deux in Historical (those marionettes were surprisingly heavy!). Tried an experiment which, apparently, failed. >and the stained glass window? I've >forgotten). > Tempis Fugit. Susan was so excited to be the one wearing the woman's outfit for a change; at Archon, she cross-dressed and had her sister wear the gown and surcote, but she couldn't make it to CC. Susan put out a last-minute distress call, and Jim jumped in. > > >People have already mentioned the two masquerades, which were a very >different sort of competition than I'm used to; much more of an emphasis >on stage show, with workmanship judged separately. > We try to explain it to people as one-minute performance art. >My favorite event, >though, was the Future Fashion Folio. This happens in two parts: Designers >submit costume designs for futuristic or otherwise themed clothing, and >are judged and given awards for these designs in advance of the con. Then >the winning designs are published in a book, and volunteers can choose >designs to sew up in real fabric. These interpretations are then presented >fashion-show style, and also judged. Designers have the first right of >refusal on sewing their own designs, so if you've got a hankering to >design and make a creation, you can do that. There are then awards for >best costume made by its own designer, and also for best interpretation of >someone else's design. (I think I have this correct -- I hope one of the >more knowledgeable people will set me straight if I'm confused.) > Right on target. It's very exciting when you find out that a design you submitted was accepted; it's even better when someone decides that they want to build it for real (the bridal gown in this year's show was my design). >The >latter award went to H-Cost member Pierre Pettinger making a "Fractal >Robe" designed by H-Cost member Ann/Catelli, who took a standard medieval >garment and added extra gores on a fractal pattern, oooh my. > Incorrect, although I that Pierre's outfit was really neat (and, except for the jewels on his hat, came completely from materials already in his possession). Best interpretation by designer went to Steve Swope for his peahen suit. Best interpretation by nondesigner went to Kate Pollack for Spectator at a Formal Religious Ceremony. The judge, Carol Inkpen (another St. Louis person), is not comfortable with public speaking, so she had me as the MC do the announcements. I enjoyed doing that job. > >I don't plan on going to another CostumeCon for a while, as actually >*making* costumes is not really my thing anymore. It was fun to watch, >though. I'll certainly be at the St. Louis CC in, hmm, 2007 or so. > Excellent! I hope our stories will encourage more H-costume members to attend. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 01:16:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5Giqa014630 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 01:16:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5Gdcf021131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5GcIF028655; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:16:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from trollnet.no (mail.trollnet.no [213.161.161.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5GYIF028607 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brittdspp63nqs [213.161.187.168] by trollnet.no (SMTPD32-7.07) id A3531A450132; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:17:07 +0200 Message-ID: <002301c30a20$ac7beda0$0b01a8c0@brittdspp63nqs> From: "Britt Halonen" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c305dc$d0d48b00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3.0.6.32.20030422152302.00e32d30@pop.directcon.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:16:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Book on shoemaking X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Margo. Saw you had bought a book on shoemaking, and That made me curious. Is it shoemaking from the bottom or fixing new shoes to make them look "oldtime"?. Could you please give me the name of the book? Hilsen fra Britt Marie Halonen Lulit Gahkkorluodda 8 9520 Kautokeino, Norway bhalonen@trollnet.no http://community.webshots.com/user/briha100 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 01:22:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5Lxqa014635 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 01:21:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5MBcf021404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5MAIF001094; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:22:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O5M5IF001054 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28717 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:41:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:41:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con In-Reply-To: <3EA765F0.5020300@accessus.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Karen Heim wrote: > >The > >latter award went to H-Cost member Pierre Pettinger making a "Fractal > >Robe" designed by H-Cost member Ann/Catelli, who took a standard medieval > >garment and added extra gores on a fractal pattern, oooh my. > > > Incorrect, although I that Pierre's outfit was really neat (and, except > for the jewels on his hat, came completely from materials already in his > possession). Best interpretation by designer went to Steve Swope for > his peahen suit. Best interpretation by nondesigner went to Kate > Pollack for Spectator at a Formal Religious Ceremony. Which was splendid too. Pierre won something, though, didn't he? Or was I just so dazzled by his (and Ann's) artistry that I mentally awarded him a prize? Karen (or anyone), will the results and names and things be posted somewhere official? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 04:11:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8BQqa010134 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8BVcf000625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8BSXa013775; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3O8BPXa013749 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424081120.63121.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:11:20 BST Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:11:20 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cavalier Help! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1c2.893a2ec.2bd863be@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/23/2003 4:22:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Kitsune242@aol.com writes: > > > > What I think I know: I need a shift/chemise, corset and farthinggale/hoops. > > > > > The bodice and skirt are separate. Pastel colors are acceptable. Lace is > > rather appropriate. (You see, I am suddenly hopeless!) > > > > Actually, most Cavalier bodices are boned to death and not corseted. I made > the pattern for a 1660s bodice right from Jean Honnesette's book [had to > adjust the boning pattern a little] and it looked great! I hate to say this, but 1660s is not Cavalier style, and what exactly do you mean with cavalier? 1630s or 1640s? It is true that bodices were boned back then, but you can also wear stays and only ever so lightly boned bodices. The cut of the 1630s & 40s is completely different to the 1660s. The waist line is waaaayyy higher. I set the chemise > sleeve into the bodice [under the cartridge pleated sleeve...which was not > from the book. I hate her sleeve patterns. It was just a rectangle c-pleated > into the armseye and gently gathered into a turned up cuff that came to just > below the elbow] and faked the wide chemise neck that spilled over the > horizontal neckline. It's just easier to control that way. It was for stage. For stage I can understand well why you chose to fake it, but being someone who wears that style (1660s) I ave to say it is very easy to control all the layers, I never have any problems. I'd suggest you don't fake anything (and please please don't sew lace onto the bodice - white lace that is - faking a laced chemise, it is my pet hate :-) Give me some more info and I see what I can dig up. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 04:23:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8Niqa013343 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:23:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8Nrcf001170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8NpXa019274; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:23:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3O8NmXa019226 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424082343.55130.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:23:43 BST Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:23:43 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cavalier Help! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1d2.806de47.2bd7234d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What I think I know: I need a shift/chemise, Yes indeed. corset Depends if you wnat to go for corset and lightly boned bodice or heavily boned bodice. It appears the boned bodice version is more upperclass. and farthinggale/hoops. Nope. Not at all. Depending on the level of society you want to represent either a bumroll (not too big! I have seen dreadfully huge examples) or multi layered petticoats. > The bodice and skirt are separate. Yep, but I have seen many recreated gowns where they are sewn together. I personally would not do that. Pastel colors are acceptable. No, not really. I went through my 1630s and 1640s folders and there are no pastel colours (depending what you understand under pastel colours) except for ivories. There are many blues and golden yellows. You also find greens and reds and lots and lots of black. Lace is > rather appropriate. It depends! What kind of lace are you talking about? > So, if you have some a website or pattern to recommend or would be willing to > share your knowledge with me, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm happy to try as I said earlier, but need more info, see above and the other mail. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 04:51:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8pEqa028610 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8pScf002448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8pRXa000455; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3O8pPXa000434 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-34-226.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.34.226]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h3O8pOMc025208 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 01:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030424013547.0567a930@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 01:37:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove Etiquette In-Reply-To: <3EA5D12C.3040403@rcn.com> References: <200304171800.h3HI0dLu017215@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Oh, ICK! >Eating with your gloves on. >Yuck. > >Next they'll recommend peas & honey. The Johnson boys eat peas with honey. They have done so all their lives. Makes the peas taste kind of funny, But it keeps them on the knives. (traditional American folksong) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 06:26:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAQjqa017201 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAQqcf007356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:26:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAQone005214; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAQlne005163 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A761100D5 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D892110207 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02ea01c30a4b$f88a3d20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:26:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO . My mind boggles at people who can > produce this many incredible realizations of concepts so creative. I do > not think (or work) like this, so it was all fascinating to me. Dr. > Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, the Three Little Maids, and the Peahen > Suit come to mind from the St. Louis group alone (and what were the names > of the marionette presentation, and the stained glass window? I've > forgotten). I would LOVE to see pics of the above-mentioned comstumes--especially the Lonely Hearts Club Band, and the stained glass window. Someone PLEASE tell me there are pics somewhere! Dianne > > People have already mentioned the two masquerades, which were a very > different sort of competition than I'm used to; much more of an emphasis > on stage show, with workmanship judged separately. My favorite event, > though, was the Future Fashion Folio. This happens in two parts: Designers > submit costume designs for futuristic or otherwise themed clothing, and > are judged and given awards for these designs in advance of the con. Then > the winning designs are published in a book, and volunteers can choose > designs to sew up in real fabric. These interpretations are then presented > fashion-show style, and also judged. Designers have the first right of > refusal on sewing their own designs, so if you've got a hankering to > design and make a creation, you can do that. There are then awards for > best costume made by its own designer, and also for best interpretation of > someone else's design. (I think I have this correct -- I hope one of the > more knowledgeable people will set me straight if I'm confused.) The > latter award went to H-Cost member Pierre Pettinger making a "Fractal > Robe" designed by H-Cost member Ann/Catelli, who took a standard medieval > garment and added extra gores on a fractal pattern, oooh my. > > I don't plan on going to another CostumeCon for a while, as actually > *making* costumes is not really my thing anymore. It was fun to watch, > though. I'll certainly be at the St. Louis CC in, hmm, 2007 or so. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 06:50:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAobqa017497 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAm1cf008644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAm0ne015491; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OAlvne015466 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3OAlup29973.; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:47:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:47:56 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:47:44 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance Footnotes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3OAlvne015466 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I mentioned this URL to the list in January; it belongs to the dance group for which our music group often plays. (Our own group's website is still under construction.) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Kitsune242@aol.com 04/23/03 05:08am >>> Is there a member of this list that belongs to the following url? http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/index3.html Thanks, Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 07:04:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OB4nqa017536 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:04:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OB50cf009506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 05:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OB4xwK022984; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 05:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OB4uwK022944 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 05:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3OB4tp01003.; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:04:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:04:55 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:04:50 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cavalier Help! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3OB4uwK022944 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit wrote : Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> I have just found out that I will need to make a cavalier dress within the next few weeks. >What I think I know: I need a shift/chemise, corset and >farthinggale/hoops. The bodice and skirt are separate. Pastel colors are >acceptable. Lace is rather appropriate. (You see, I am suddenly >hopeless!) Assuming you mean 1630s, the "look" is much softer and more flowing than earlier (or later) styles. You only need a short-waisted corset, no hoops, but unless you are generously proportioned you may need a bum-roll to give the necessary "bulky" appearance. The bodice and skirt don't have to be separate, but if you make the style of bodice with a tabbed waist it's probably most convenient to do so. The lace would be attached to the shift or neckwear rather than to the dress itself. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 07:45:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OBjjqa017658 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:45:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OBjncf011489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 05:45:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OBjlwK008978; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 05:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OBjiwK008936 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 05:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.109] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB5E127B015A; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:32:46 -0400 Message-ID: <003901c30a57$77474da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c3091f$fee718a0$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:48:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Carolann. I had figured that for the Simplicity pattern they were intending a rounder bustline, which the effect of the padding would have.I have one gown and three bodices from this time period and none of them have the padding as you have described it. At least two of the pieces were"home grown" and perhaps the sewers were unaware that high fashion required the additional build up.(Or that ample bosoms made it redundant and maybe a tad uncomfortable. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:39 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book > Original mid-19th century dresses or bodices with padding in the bodice > front are quite common. I've found it on approximately 30%-40% of the > originals I've examined. The most common version is a crescent shaped pad > that begins approximately halfway down the front armscye curve and ends > beneath the arm. Properly fitted corsets from the mid-Victorian era raise > the bustline (back to where it was when you were "young and perky" ). If > your breast/upper chest tissue is soft, you can "sag" inside the corset. > This will create a horizontal fold in the front bodice beginning at the > armscye and pointing toward or slightly above the bust point. The padding > fills in this hollow space and creates the nicely-rounded curve typical of > the silhouette of this period. Your cup size has nothing to do with whether > you may or may not need the padding; I've had students that were an F cup > that needed it while a smaller cup size did not. It's strictly a matter of > muscle tone and the fit of the corset. Rolling the shoulder seam further to > the back usually does not have any effect, unless the bodice is too long > over the upper chest (between neckline and bustline). > > You will also find many originals where the padding is an elongated oval > extending from the shoulder to below the bust; this padding usually does not > extend into the armscye. This is more common on dresses from the 1840s and > early 1850s than on dresses later in the century. In this case the padding > is used to increase and round the bustline to achieve the fashionable > silhouette. > > I've also examined original dress shields from the period. They look very > much like modern dress shields: a crescent-shaped piece of glazed or > rubberized fabric (usually linen) that is placed under the arm. TSome are > single layer, others are double (one half on each side of the armscye seam); > they are not padded; and they do not extend beyond the bottom of the armscye > curve on to the front or back of the dress. > > Carolann Schmitt > cschmitt@genteelarts.com > www.genteelarts.com > Citizens of the 1860s Conference - March 4-7, 2003 > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 08:24:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCOGqa017764 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:24:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCORcf013686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCOQTb024432; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCOOTb024370 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.109] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A46D1319015A; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:11:25 -0400 Message-ID: <009101c30a5c$de02cba0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Peter Pan Collars Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:27:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jessica, This is not evidence but a theory. This style collar was popular in the 1950's when the original musical production of Peter Pan became a huge hit. Mary Martin's costume featured a cute collar that was widely repeated in fashions for young misses. The collars were used on blouses as well a separate bands to be worn with sweaters. So that is my 'take' on the origin. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "jessica stier" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:07 AM Subject: [h-cost] Peter Pan Collars > > > Hi Everyone. > > Does anyone know the origin of the Peter Pan collar? And what it was called > before the invention of Peter Pan? > > We were draping collars tonight in class and I started wondering about this. > I thought someone on this list would surely know the answer. There are so > many knowledable people here. > > Thanks! > :)jessica > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 08:42:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCgBqa017840 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:42:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCgjcf014558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:42:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCgiTb002166; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OCgeTb002122 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.109] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8B610B90180; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:29:42 -0400 Message-ID: <009701c30a5f$6ba12680$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030423170002.31570.41491.Mailman@blackstar.ansteorra.org> <002001c309d8$7d101de0$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:45:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After many years in doing this kind of job on the 'cheap', I finally came up with the idea of checking the market to see what it was...or might be...going for in the commercial venues. That is providing any company was doing it. This price became my going price startingpoint. Then there was the matter of "what the market will bear". This estimate then gets figured into how much of my time will be needed and how fascinating and fulfilling the Project will be to me personally. Since I can't always to expect the buying public to pay me for my hobby, I settle on a selling price that recompenses me for some of the time, my out of pocket expenses, and the artistic effort they presumably are looking for in placing the order in the first place. If they are expecting a lot for little cash, I have and do suggest they can find it somewhere if they look hard enough and maybe in a sale bin if they are lucky. I do not lack for time employment, and can set my own pace. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 4:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork > I am considering offering my services in blackworking to the cast at the > Renn Faire I am just getting involved in. The problm is I have never done > anything like this before and have no idea what/how to price. I don't want > to make it so exorbitant that no one wants it, but I don't want to sell > myself short either. Can anyone here who has done this before (Bjarne?) give > me some pointers? Thanks > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 09:09:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OD97qa017905 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OD8tcf015727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OD8sKw013157; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OD8oKw013119 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:08:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30186 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:27:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:27:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con In-Reply-To: <02ea01c30a4b$f88a3d20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > I would LOVE to see pics of the above-mentioned comstumes--especially > the Lonely Hearts Club Band, and the stained glass window. Someone > PLEASE tell me there are pics somewhere! Many people were taking photos, and there was an official photographer; I don't know whether the official photos will be webbed. Some people and groups have started putting up some photos already, but I'll bet it'll be a week or two before we see most of them. Here's what I've seen so far: http://www.geocities.com/siwcostumers/calendar.htm And another group here, but mostly pretty blurry: http://www.snapfish.com/login enter address: ecgphoto@yahoo.com password: starwars Mostly Star Wars here: http://www.sithcamaro.com/events/cc21/index.htm Various others, including the Iron Costumer competition: http://www.tk604.com/~mike/costumecon03/Costume%20Con%202003.html I'm also hoping we might see photos at the con website, which is , but since they never managed to update the site with the actual programming, I'm not holding my breath. (Karen, if you're reading this, it would be nice to have the *actual* programming listed on the website, as a record, for people who want to know who actually taught what.) I was in my GFD and various overdresses for most of Saturday, but I don't know if anyone caught a picture. I was not in any of the competitions. I did get photographed several times in my Friday Social dress, and even got a hall costume award for that, which someone had to explain to me (yes, I was stunned ... the place was full of lovely 20's stuff). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 09:31:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODVcqa017944 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:31:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODVdcf017475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:31:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODVcKw025000; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com [66.96.128.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3ODVZKw024914 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24564 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2003 13:24:47 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.211.245.224.dial1.denver1.level3.net (HELO costumepress.com) (63.211.245.224) by -H with SMTP; 24 Apr 2003 13:24:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3EA7E72A.CE936FB2@costumepress.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:31:26 -0600 From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos on the Costume Con web site References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to all you lucky folk who made it to Costume Con. The official web site is managed by Betsy Delaney. Once she gets unpacked, gets the laundry done, sorts through her email and catches up on sleep (how does one do that with a 2 1/2 year old?), she will be updating the web site with pics. If you look at other years on the site, you'll see that the photos are the "official" photos, so some of this will depend upon the "official" photographer. I know it is hard to wait, but there are plenty of folks who will be putting up their own photos to keep you jazzed until Betsy gets the official ones up. Hope this helps, MD/Marged _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 09:39:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODdbqa017953 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODdacf018143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODdXKw029297; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:39:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODdTKw029233 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:39:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-004-239.jps.net ([216.119.4.239] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 198gwh-0005KM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:39:27 -0700 Message-ID: <002001c30a68$a7280440$ef0477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030423170002.31570.41491.Mailman@blackstar.ansteorra.org><002001c309d8$7d101de0$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> <009701c30a5f$6ba12680$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:51:46 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO a package pricing deal including bartering works well sometimes as you get cash and something else valuable to you that someone else might have put time into. Blackwork for cash and a top hat, or brake job if its for a mechanic, or computer consulting etc.... might not work for strangers, but does up what you can get for your work occasionally. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 5:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork > After many years in doing this kind of job on the 'cheap', I finally came up > with the idea of checking the market to see what it was...or might > be...going for in the commercial venues. That is providing any company was > doing it. This price became my going price startingpoint. Then there was > the matter of "what the market will bear". This estimate then gets figured > into how much of my time will be needed and how fascinating and fulfilling > the Project will be to me personally. Since I can't always to expect the > buying public to pay me for my hobby, I settle on a selling price that > recompenses me for some of the time, my out of pocket expenses, and the > artistic effort they presumably are looking for in placing the order in the > first place. If they are expecting a lot for little cash, I have and do > suggest they can find it somewhere if they look hard enough and maybe in a > sale bin if they are lucky. > I do not lack for time employment, and can set my own pace. > Kathleen > > > > > ----- Original > Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 4:39 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: how to price blackwork > > > > I am considering offering my services in blackworking to the cast at the > > Renn Faire I am just getting involved in. The problm is I have never done > > anything like this before and have no idea what/how to price. I don't want > > to make it so exorbitant that no one wants it, but I don't want to sell > > myself short either. Can anyone here who has done this before (Bjarne?) > give > > me some pointers? Thanks > > > > ********************** > > Rebecca Schmitt > > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > > ---Cicero > > > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > > ********************** > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 09:56:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODuXqa017993 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:56:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODtrcf019171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODtq1s008098; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODtm1t008066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 198hEq-0006G8-00; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:58:12 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 198hCf-0001wj-00; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:55:57 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:55:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book In-Reply-To: <000a01c3091f$fee718a0$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The use of bodice padding also went pretty late into the century. My wedding gown, an antique gown from about 1892-93 had padding in an oval shape, with a cut-out for the armhole, that was lightly padded. (I removed it when I realised I had enough natural padding to fill out the bodice). What I love are the men's vests of the mid-19th century with removable pads for rounding out the chest, with a buttonhole in the lining to attach the pad, and easily remove it for laundering. Katy On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Carolann Schmitt wrote: >Original mid-19th century dresses or bodices with padding in the bodice >front are quite common. I've found it on approximately 30%-40% of the >originals I've examined. The most common version is a crescent shaped pad >that begins approximately halfway down the front armscye curve and ends >beneath the arm. Properly fitted corsets from the mid-Victorian era raise >the bustline (back to where it was when you were "young and perky" ). If >your breast/upper chest tissue is soft, you can "sag" inside the corset. >This will create a horizontal fold in the front bodice beginning at the >armscye and pointing toward or slightly above the bust point. The padding >fills in this hollow space and creates the nicely-rounded curve typical of >the silhouette of this period. Your cup size has nothing to do with whether >you may or may not need the padding; I've had students that were an F cup >that needed it while a smaller cup size did not. It's strictly a matter of >muscle tone and the fit of the corset. Rolling the shoulder seam further to >the back usually does not have any effect, unless the bodice is too long >over the upper chest (between neckline and bustline). > >You will also find many originals where the padding is an elongated oval >extending from the shoulder to below the bust; this padding usually does not >extend into the armscye. This is more common on dresses from the 1840s and >early 1850s than on dresses later in the century. In this case the padding >is used to increase and round the bustline to achieve the fashionable >silhouette. > >I've also examined original dress shields from the period. They look very >much like modern dress shields: a crescent-shaped piece of glazed or >rubberized fabric (usually linen) that is placed under the arm. TSome are >single layer, others are double (one half on each side of the armscye seam); >they are not padded; and they do not extend beyond the bottom of the armscye >curve on to the front or back of the dress. > >Carolann Schmitt >cschmitt@genteelarts.com >www.genteelarts.com >Citizens of the 1860s Conference - March 4-7, 2003 > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 09:58:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODwhqa017997 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:58:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODwtcf019403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODwr1s009999; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:58:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail5.kc.rr.com (fe5.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ODwp1s009930 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail5.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:57:50 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424085359.009f2ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:03:56 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Margo's Costume Con Report (Shoemaking) In-Reply-To: <129.286b73d5.2bd8b22d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:21 PM 4/23/03 -0400, you wrote: >Margo, > >Please tell us more about the shoemaking book you bought. I'm just getting >into this area and would appreciate any recommendations. I already have the >MOL book but find it somewhat vague in a few areas. > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer Nancy, I'm not Margo, but I would recommend "Make Your Own Shoes" by Mary Wales Loomis. Tells you how to buy a pair of cast-off shoes at a thrift store, tear them apart for the heels and steel supports, and then create your own shoes from the ground up using your sewing machine and leather cement. The shoes look very professional, but they are rather modern-looking. There are a couple of other shoemaking books on the market, including the one Margo had on her table. "Crafting handmade shoes" and " Simple shoemaking" by Sharon Raymond are (if I remember correctly) books on making shoes without heels. The shoes are simple to make, but not so professional-looking. Of course, this might be what you need if you're doing some older historical periods. Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 10:33:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEXbqa018109 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:33:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEXccf022502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEXb1s001717; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEXX1s001677 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-004-239.jps.net ([216.119.4.239] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 198hn2-0004YO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:33:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c30a70$3596dc40$ef0477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424085359.009f2ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Margo's Costume Con Report (Shoemaking) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:45:52 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a glossy coffee table book called "Handmade Shoes for Men" by Laszlo Vass & Magda Molnar which shows all the steps for making modern mens shoes by hand from the timber for the last to the oriental carpeted boutique they are for sale, because it is aimed at the coffee table market it is chock full of glossy pictures. I love it! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheryl Nance-Durst" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 7:03 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Margo's Costume Con Report (Shoemaking) > At 11:21 PM 4/23/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Margo, > > > >Please tell us more about the shoemaking book you bought. I'm just getting > >into this area and would appreciate any recommendations. I already have the > >MOL book but find it somewhat vague in a few areas. > > > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer > > Nancy, > I'm not Margo, but I would recommend "Make Your Own Shoes" by Mary Wales > Loomis. Tells you how to buy a pair of cast-off shoes at a thrift store, > tear them > apart for the heels and steel supports, and then create your own shoes from the > ground up using your sewing machine and leather cement. The shoes look very > professional, but they are rather modern-looking. > > There are a couple of other shoemaking books on the market, including the one > Margo had on her table. "Crafting handmade shoes" and " Simple shoemaking" > by Sharon Raymond are (if I remember correctly) books on making shoes > without heels. The shoes are simple to make, but not so professional-looking. > Of course, this might be what you need if you're doing some older > historical periods. > > Sheryl Nance-Durst > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 10:34:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEYOqa018115 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:34:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEYccf022648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEYb1s002390; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OEYP1s002169 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:34:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424143420.33870.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:34:20 BST Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:34:20 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon & other con congrats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations to all who have won some award or mention at one or other of the costume cons! Looking forward to see many photos, can hardly wait. Congratulations just simply to ALL who went there, had a good time and wore lots of luvverly costumes. How did Teddy do in the masquerade????? What about 'Mr Betsy'? Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 10:46:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEkKqa018151 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:46:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEkScf023897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEkR1s010630; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEkK1s010556 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30776 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:05:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:05:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A few minutes ago, I wrote: > Various others, including the Iron Costumer competition: > http://www.tk604.com/~mike/costumecon03/Costume%20Con%202003.html I was just browsing through these and found a couple of nice ones of Teddy and the other two judges for the Iron Costumer competition: http://www.tk604.com/~mike/costumecon03/dsc05276.jpg http://www.tk604.com/~mike/costumecon03/dsc05275.jpg Here's an op art Burgundian from the Friday social that made me wish I *had* done "Mod-ieval" so we could stand next to each other and blind everyone ;-) This is an h-cost member, but I can't remember her name! Identify yourself, please? http://www.tk604.com/~mike/costumecon03/dsc05137.jpg Christine in her fake Fortuny silk dress she made in the last moments before getting on the plane, and her friend ... Christine, tell the world about these dresses: http://www.tk604.com/~mike/costumecon03/dsc05140.jpg On this page, first row, third photo: http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6781787/t_=3381905 ...you'll find Danielle (in the black) with another 20's person (in blue). Danielle's dress belonged to Tom's ?great-aunt? grandmother? -- he brought this and another over from England for her to wear. It was fun watching Teddy and Tom dress Danielle up with the various accessories they'd just happened to bring along. The fourth picture has a better view of Danielle and a lousy one of me. On that same page, in the seventh row, you'll see Danielle again, in red. Even further down: The 2nd through 8th of the photos labeled F&SF Masquerade are from the "Court of the Crimson King" presentation; the woman in the yellow is the Fire Witch. The moth scenario just after that was a stunner too. A couple of rows down is Dr. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. The twist here is that when they turn around, you see logos on their backs: the green is 7-Up, the purple is Grape Nehi, the orange is Orange Crush, and the red is Dr. Pepper. The costumes had some wonderful detail, including vintage bottlecaps for the buttons; the epaulets are huge pull-tabs. At the end of the same row is one of my favorites: The Digital Revolution. Full French Revolution costume with copious use of CDs, glowing circuitry, etc. The curly wig is made of videotape. Next row, third photo, is (I think) Tom, in b/w Italian Ren. In the first full row labeled "Future Fashion Folio," the third photo is the "Death's Bride" gown with skeleton motifs that Karen Heim designed. In the next row, the first photo is Pierre Pettinger in Ann's design of the fractal robe. I'm sure there are other h-cost-linked people in this set, particularly the various Elizabethan hall costumes and the historical masquerade entries, but you'll have to identify yourselves! I'm running out of names, and my computer loads much too slowly. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 10:47:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OElTqa018157 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OElfcf024020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OElf1s011542; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OElY1s011459 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.126] (pm4-126.eos.net [205.133.149.126]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02637 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:47:32 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:42:59 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304240223.h3O2N5vi000628@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 169 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 4/23/03 10:23 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > This is a French company that has hand woven velvet. It is also > in the $100/yd category. And I believe they only produce figured velvet. > http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/index.htm > > WOW!!!! The fabric is gorgeous. But am I the only one who thinks the patterns shown on their site are ugly? They do weave to your design, though! Wouldn't that be wonderful, to have a custom pattern made? Sigh. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 10:49:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEnvqa018163 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:49:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEo3cf024252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEo21s013252; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEnx1s013130 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:49:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [67.66.157.156] (account ) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.0.5) with HTTP id 157088502 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:49:53 -0500 From: "Karen Heim" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.4.0.5 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:49:53 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:41:04 -0500 (CDT) Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Karen Heim wrote: > > > Which was splendid too. Pierre won something, though, > didn't he? Or was I > just so dazzled by his (and Ann's) artistry that I > mentally awarded him a > prize? > He was actually announcing awards - the cash prizes for the category he and Sandy sponsored: best design with architectural influences. > Karen (or anyone), will the results and names and things > be posted > somewhere official? Yes, they will be listed on www.costume-con.org once Betsy gets a chance to decompress, and gets lists from all masquerade directors. There will also eventually be pictures of all entries, I believe. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 10:50:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEosqa018166 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:50:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEp3cf024365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEp01s013920; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEot1s013871 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:50:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30809 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:09:55 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:09:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon & other con congrats In-Reply-To: <20030424143420.33870.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > How did Teddy do in the masquerade????? What about 'Mr Betsy'? Teddy sewed frantically on Mr. Betsy throughout the con, first hoping to wear it to the F&SF masquerade, then hoping he might finish it for a hall costume. He didn't get enough of it done to wear, though he did henna his hair red on Friday night (and the bathroom did *not* explode this time). He seemed quite undisturbed, though, as he has another con in mind for presenting it. Mr. Betsy, it seems, is a character in some SF book I haven't read. The character dresses up as Queen Elizabeth, and so is a natural for Teddy :-) The gown has promise to be sensational; I watched him sewing hundreds of pearls on guards of slashed black velvet over red satin. I am still trying to figure out how he got a small costume shop's worth of stuff in his luggage. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 10:58:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEwjqa018175 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:58:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEwqcf025482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:58:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OEwoKi019480; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OEwcKi019249 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:58:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424145832.75542.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:58:32 BST Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:58:32 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon & other con congrats To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Awww.... so no piccies yet, alright, that means I'll have to get another whip-cracking sewing weekend in before whatever next con it is scheduled for :-) It IS a stunner I bet it'll be grand. Thanks for sending all those early pix and the commentary, have been ogling all the wonderful costumes, what a feast for the eye!!!! Nicole --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > > > How did Teddy do in the masquerade????? What about 'Mr Betsy'? > > Teddy sewed frantically on Mr. Betsy throughout the con, first hoping to > wear it to the F&SF masquerade, then hoping he might finish it for a hall > costume. He didn't get enough of it done to wear, though he did henna his > hair red on Friday night (and the bathroom did *not* explode this time). > He seemed quite undisturbed, though, as he has another con in mind for > presenting it. > > Mr. Betsy, it seems, is a character in some SF book I haven't read. The > character dresses up as Queen Elizabeth, and so is a natural for Teddy :-) > The gown has promise to be sensational; I watched him sewing hundreds of > pearls on guards of slashed black velvet over red satin. > > I am still trying to figure out how he got a small costume shop's worth of > stuff in his luggage. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 11:20:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFKNqa018207 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:20:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFKTcf027879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFKSxM003556; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web21410.mail.yahoo.com (web21410.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OFKPxM003518 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:20:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424152025.31457.qmail@web21410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.101] by web21410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:20:25 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:20:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon & other con congrats To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Mr. Betsy, it seems, is a character in some SF book > I haven't read. The > character dresses up as Queen Elizabeth, and so is a > natural for Teddy :-) > The gown has promise to be sensational; I watched > him sewing hundreds of > pearls on guards of slashed black velvet over red > satin. > Mr. Betsy is in a series by Julian May about Pliocene Exiles: The Many Colored Land, The Golden Torc, The Non-Born King and The Adversary. (All published between 1981-1984). Very spiff costume concept and I definitely wanna see pics when Teddy's done! (I never wanted to do that one, I wanted to do one of Tanu) Angharad __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 11:44:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFiLqa018332 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:44:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFiFcf000450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFiEJE020721; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:44:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFi9JE020645 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31101 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:03:10 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:03:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon & other con congrats In-Reply-To: <20030424152025.31457.qmail@web21410.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote: > Mr. Betsy is in a series by Julian May about Pliocene Exiles: The > Many Colored Land, The Golden Torc, The Non-Born King and The > Adversary. (All published between 1981-1984). Very spiff costume > concept and I definitely wanna see pics when Teddy's done! > > (I never wanted to do that one, I wanted to do one of Tanu) Like this? http://www.ireadh.demon.co.uk/cguk/ccxvdisp/page5.html And yes, that's Teddy :-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 11:47:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFlIqa018338 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:47:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFlPcf000798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:47:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFlPJE023134; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f7.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OFkNJE022293 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:46:18 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:46:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:46:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2003 15:46:18.0170 (UTC) FILETIME=[A54631A0:01C30A78] Subject: [h-cost] RE: Peter Pan Collars X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the thoughts on the Peter Pan Collar origins. I have a couple of ideas to look into... The idea that it is similar to the cavalier style collars in very interesting. I am going to look into that more. I also will work backwards from the production of Peter Pan in the 1950's. This couldn't be the first time, in history, that this collar surfaced, could it? Just a little tangent brought on by the creative juices of draping. Thanks! :) jessica >From Kathleen: >Jessica, This is not evidence but a theory. This style collar was popular >in >the 1950's when the original musical production of Peter Pan became a huge >hit. Mary Martin's costume featured a cute collar that was widely repeated >in fashions for young misses. The collars were used on blouses as well a >separate bands to be worn with sweaters. >So that is my 'take' on the origin." From: Heather Meadows: "Well a Peter Pan collar is pretty much the same thing as a cavalier style large 'falling' collar, at least draping/drafting wise..." _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 12:11:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGB8qa018439 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:11:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGAwcf003413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGAsrL009807; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OGAorL009676 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oo5bCA594Gy0/GoK9guMxYc=">; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:10:32 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWJV4SJN; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:10:32 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:57:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] a schole-house for the needle Message-ID: <20030424.090953.888.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,9-12,14-36 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tried Acanthus Books? Actually, if you've got Google as a search engine, try hunting it down on that. Marvy thing, Google. Can take the wierdest stuff you may throw at it and still find treasures. I don't have the Acanthus site here, but found it on Google. For those interested in domestic history and cookery, this is a fascinating place and highly dangerous to your pocketbook. They do accept credit cards and sell new and used. Arlys On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:27:22 -0400 rob and laurie gage writes: > Greetings all! > I've been searching the web for a used copy of this book to no > avail. I > have found several good images on different sites , but I'd really > like > a copy of my own. > The owners of the original (or one of them) are selling repros, but > they don't accept credit or debit cards and they don't have an order > > site. A few needlework merchants sell the repros, but at $45-$50 a > pop > it's a bit out of my range. > Does anyone on the list know where I can get a used copy, or one > less > expensively? I've checked Barnes and Noble, half.com and Amazon with > no > results. > If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please let me know. > Much thanks, > Laurie Gage > rlgage@adelphia.net > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 12:16:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGGHqa018458 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:16:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGGIcf004059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGGHEZ013547; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGGCEZ013416 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.101] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AABDF980184; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:03:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c30a7d$3f03a8a0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:19:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if this padding was a regional thing. I have been collecting for about 30 years and have never found padding in any of the items for women. Many of the things were directly from old family trunks. Even the pieces with Paris labels. One oddity for the turn of the 20th Century is a corset cover that has rows of ruffles front and back. It was in a "wedding box" and its use was pretty obvious. My areas of collecting have been central New England and SW Pa. I do have examples of padding in gents garments, including the example given here. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book > > The use of bodice padding also went pretty late into the century. My > wedding gown, an antique gown from about 1892-93 had padding in an oval > shape, with a cut-out for the armhole, that was lightly padded. (I > removed it when I realised I had enough natural padding to fill out the > bodice). > > What I love are the men's vests of the mid-19th century with removable > pads for rounding out the chest, with a buttonhole in the lining > to attach the pad, and easily remove it for laundering. > > Katy > > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Carolann Schmitt wrote: > > >Original mid-19th century dresses or bodices with padding in the bodice > >front are quite common. I've found it on approximately 30%-40% of the > >originals I've examined. The most common version is a crescent shaped pad > >that begins approximately halfway down the front armscye curve and ends > >beneath the arm. Properly fitted corsets from the mid-Victorian era raise > >the bustline (back to where it was when you were "young and perky" ). If > >your breast/upper chest tissue is soft, you can "sag" inside the corset. > >This will create a horizontal fold in the front bodice beginning at the > >armscye and pointing toward or slightly above the bust point. The padding > >fills in this hollow space and creates the nicely-rounded curve typical of > >the silhouette of this period. Your cup size has nothing to do with whether > >you may or may not need the padding; I've had students that were an F cup > >that needed it while a smaller cup size did not. It's strictly a matter of > >muscle tone and the fit of the corset. Rolling the shoulder seam further to > >the back usually does not have any effect, unless the bodice is too long > >over the upper chest (between neckline and bustline). > > > >You will also find many originals where the padding is an elongated oval > >extending from the shoulder to below the bust; this padding usually does not > >extend into the armscye. This is more common on dresses from the 1840s and > >early 1850s than on dresses later in the century. In this case the padding > >is used to increase and round the bustline to achieve the fashionable > >silhouette. > > > >I've also examined original dress shields from the period. They look very > >much like modern dress shields: a crescent-shaped piece of glazed or > >rubberized fabric (usually linen) that is placed under the arm. TSome are > >single layer, others are double (one half on each side of the armscye seam); > >they are not padded; and they do not extend beyond the bottom of the armscye > >curve on to the front or back of the dress. > > > >Carolann Schmitt > >cschmitt@genteelarts.com > >www.genteelarts.com > >Citizens of the 1860s Conference - March 4-7, 2003 > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 12:23:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGNKqa018469 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:23:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGNPcf004981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGNNEZ019270; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OGN7EZ018996 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWnLofFwJnCTzTmrsm8JwEe6ufGj1GLAJkg==">; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:22:43 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWJWS4T9; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:22:43 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:10:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 169 Message-ID: <20030424.121556.-352989.5.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,6-8 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <<>> I agree that some of them are not to my taste, but if I had the money I could see a sofa covered in that white and dark red Grenadine sitting in a state of honor in my living room (covered with cats, of course). Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 12:34:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGXrqa018506 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:34:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGX1cf006108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGX0EZ026843; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OGWuEZ026741 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.101] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEADB30015E; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:19:57 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c30a7f$96830880$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c30997$0b1086d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of embroidery Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:35:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne. I look forward to seeing your design develop! I had to 'knock off' three last month (as I shook my magic wand) but these were for theatre and a LOT of cheating. Your embroidery is true fine art for me. I like your 'canvas'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 8:51 AM Subject: [h-cost] update of embroidery > Hi. > I have updated on the dressdiary. The end is near of the embroidery. > Then someone has purchaised me to embroider an 18th century stomacher, and i > have made the design: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/stomacherdesign > She wants me to make her a corset and a panier, she can not afford to get a > dress, but then she wanted me to make her a stomacher to match the corset. > I will really enjoy to make that stomacher........ > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 13:03:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OH3aqa018639 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OH3Ycf010059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OH3XEN020730; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:03:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OH2bEN020117 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.57.1bb6e735 (4539) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:02:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <57.1bb6e735.2bd972a1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:02:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All! I am going through a bunch of my old e-mail... I was wondering, Robin (or anyone else for that matter) did anything ever come of this Vintage Fashion magazine? (There is a response from Robin down below.) Thanks, Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole In a message dated 2/25/2003 11:21:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > Surely I'm not the only one who remembers Julia! > > She posted a query to this list in September 2002 asking what magazines > and publications were out there that costumers read. She identified > herself as a writer. After a couple of replies in which various people > bemoaned the general gap in the literature, someone asked Julia if she > were thinking of starting one. She said she hadn't been, but now that the > idea had come up, it was worth thinking about. Then ensued a conversation > about advertisers, subscribers, and how to find and reach people > interested in historic costume (from its many various angles). You can > find the thread(s) in the archives, starting with the subject line > "magazines and publications." > > I'm pretty sure we asked her to stay in touch if she ever got something > off the ground. Therefore I was delighted to get her email tonight, > because it means she actually took that information and ran with it. I'll > be sending her my address -- after she replies to my private email to her, > in which I ask for her assurance that the address is not for sale > elsewhere, but to be used only for the purpose she describes. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 13:23:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHNGqa018681 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:23:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHNJcf011435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHNIvr001902; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHNEvr001773 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:23:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.12.2fdf99e4 (15898) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m27.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v93.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID91-3e1a3ea81cc63d7; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:20:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:20:06 -0400 From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 169 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0ED8C395.03268E5B.0B5D5234@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It would be nice indeed to have custom-woven fabric...but at $107 per SAMPLE, I'm afraid it's not for me. What I really want is 2 yards of custom-woven cotton or silk brocade I can't find anything I like that's "period" and matches (i.e. isn't green or red) the rest of my gown for an Elizabethan forepart! Christine In a message dated 4/24/2003 9:42:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > WOW!!!! The fabric is gorgeous. But am I the only one who thinks the > patterns shown on their site are ugly? They do weave to your design, though! > Wouldn't that be wonderful, to have a custom pattern made? > Sigh. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 13:42:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHgRqa018731 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHgTcf013469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHgSL6017782; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:42:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHgPL6017756 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3OHAgI06813 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:10:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304241710.h3OHAgI06813@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6781787/t_=3381905 Grr, that URL won't work for me, even after I signed up for a Snapfish account. I really wanted to see that set. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 13:49:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHnYqa018749 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:49:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHhBeD013561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHIvvr029654; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12508.mail.yahoo.com (web12508.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OHGpvr028892 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424171649.2800.qmail@web12508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.41.38.39] by web12508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:16:49 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304241633.h3OGXKEb027124@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] handmade shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In reference to the handmade shoe book by Raymond .. I have it ... um .. its NOT for the beginner or even close (IMHO .. but then I am the one who goes by the instruction booklet and then wonders why things fit funny ;) .. I was SO excited when I got it then went - ACK- when I tried to figure out how to make the shoes match my feet .. I gave up and bought a pair of chinese slippers to decorate. SIGH. - Lil (still having shoe nightmares) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 13:51:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHpaqa018756 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHhBeF013561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHQ6hC004949; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHPthC004753 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31562 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:36:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:36:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community In-Reply-To: <57.1bb6e735.2bd972a1@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > I am going through a bunch of my old e-mail... I was wondering, Robin > (or anyone else for that matter) did anything ever come of this > Vintage Fashion magazine? (There is a response from Robin down > below.) A few weeks ago, Julia told me that she's expecting the first issue will be released in late May. You might still be able to get on the list for a free first issue if you email her at . --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 13:52:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHqpqa018761 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:52:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHqfcf014827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHqdL6027521; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHqXL6027267 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-119-64.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.119.64]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACE42862; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:11:49 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <01d601c30a85$08b65100$69774ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:14:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] OT Update on Multi regional DVDs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those of you in the US who were wondering about the UK & European DVDs, it would seem that many of the DVD players are restricted by software rather than hardware. If you search on model number & manufacturers name multi regional and either patch or hack you can often download the relative software and all should be well. (No guarantees thought :)) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 13:55:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHtkqa018770 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:55:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHticf015198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHtiBl029816; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OHtWBl029590 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:55:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1cb.8277e16 (16035) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m17.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.133]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v93.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea33ea824e5281; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:54:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:54:45 -0400 From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <41CA6B2E.6F20D3B7.0B5D5234@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con Notes, Photos, etc X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd best contribute to the growing CC21 reports, since I was told to "tell the world" about the fake-Fortuny dress I made, as well as my friend's vintage 60's dress! I had an absolute blast the entire weekend. It was so much fun to dress up and show off the costumes I'd made (and the wench outfit I didn't!), and have people nearby who know what it's like to...well, costume. The fake-Fortuny dress I made is possibly my crowning achievement thus far in actual textile-embellishment. It was a ton of work to do, but it turned out well. It may actually be a tad loose on me; I think I may take the side-seams in a TINY bit so that it's a little more form-fitting. Anyhow, I used a resource at costumes.org in order to pleat the fabric; basically, I had my mom help me twist the whole length of fabric until it resembled a very tightly twisted rope. Then I boiled it for ten minutes, and finally, put it into a stocking leg and threw it into the dryer for about 5 (50-minute) cycles. My friend's vintage 60's dress (hers was the gray A-line one trimmed with feathers at the cuffs) was made by her aunt during the 60's, so it's certainly accurate! Both masquerades were a blast, even though during the historic masquerade my presentation was nearly scratched (the costume is currently on the list to be overhauled). It was definitely a lot of fun to pose for pictures, afterwards! I was only able to attend three programs: the historic documentation lecture, the A-B-C's of historic research lecture, and Cybercostuming. Maybe I'll get to more programs next time (yeah right, if I have my way I'll be competing in both masquerades and maybe even the Future Fashion Show). In other news...Robin, I don't suppose you'd be willing to e-mail me some of your surcoat notes? I missed it because of tech on Saturday (my tech scheduled for: 12:30. When tech rehearsal actually began: 1:30. My historic pre-judge sheduled for: 2. Actual time: 2:40 or so. Actual tech for SF&F: 3:20 or so). I'm dying to make a historically accurate kirtle and sideless surcoat, and my research thus far has yielded very little. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 14:09:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OI99qa018807 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:09:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OI40cf016403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OI3vBl006970; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:03:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OI3rBl006838 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [67.66.157.156] (account ) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.0.5) with HTTP id 157122270 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:03:47 -0500 From: "Karen Heim" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con Notes, Photos, etc To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.4.0.5 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:03:47 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41CA6B2E.6F20D3B7.0B5D5234@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:54:45 -0400 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > Both masquerades were a blast, even though during the > historic masquerade my presentation was nearly scratched > (the costume is currently on the list to be overhauled). > It was definitely a lot of fun to pose for pictures, > afterwards! > I was only able to attend three programs: the historic > documentation lecture, the A-B-C's of historic research > lecture, and Cybercostuming. Maybe I'll get to more > programs next time (yeah right, if I have my way I'll be > competing in both masquerades and maybe even the Future > Fashion Show). Now you see why I didn't get to many panels. I was in both masquerades and the Future Fashion Show. The first CC I went to (10) I saw people doing that and thought, "There's no way I would try to cram that much into one con!". Within a couple of years, though, I was doing exactly that - hmmm . . . I must think I have energy or something (or am just a glutton for punishment). Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 14:11:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIB5qa018818 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIB9cf017416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIB8Bl013346; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80108.mail.yahoo.com (web80108.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OIB6Bl013328 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424181106.91770.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:11:06 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:11:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304241801.h3OI0xBm004325@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Now that CostumeCon is over... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Who's up for going to Costume College (August 1-3 in L.A.), and shall we again use red "H"s to identify h-costume list members? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 14:20:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIKYqa018905 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:20:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIKKcf018520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIKJBl020662; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIJkBl020226 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDV007NV1KV8Q@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:14:12 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now that CostumeCon is over... In-reply-to: <20030424181106.91770.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424111233.02c8b8d0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/23/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304241801.h3OI0xBm004325@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:11 AM 4/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Who's up for going to Costume College (August 1-3 in >L.A.), and shall we again use red "H"s to identify >h-costume list members? > >Dawn I have been pondering going to this event, as I went several years ago and it is only a four hour drive from me. I could even visit with friends... Where is the online info for this? And if I do go, I will need to share a room, so is there a roommate program like before? Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 14:30:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIUuqa018950 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:30:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIPxcf019063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIPwBl024578; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OIPtBl024531 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31776 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:17:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:17:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con In-Reply-To: <200304241710.h3OHAgI06813@gw.retro.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > >http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6781787/t_=3381905 > > Grr, that URL won't work for me, even after I signed up for a Snapfish > account. I really wanted to see that set. Try the login I posted earlier: http://www.snapfish.com/login enter address: ecgphoto@yahoo.com password: starwars --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 17:16:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLG1qa019450 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:16:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLGdcf009132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLGdal004536; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:16:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLGZal004465 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 40AE9262933 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:16:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001a01c30aa7$0dea2210$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:18:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] costume con X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I have enjoyed the pictures you all posted from costume con. It looks as you had a lot of fun and a lot of merry company. It is such a joy to be in the company with other costume freaks, right? It shows in the pictures. Thanks for the look. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 17:17:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLHGqa019472 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:17:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLEtcf008883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLEial003270; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLEfal003222 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BA61262995 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:14:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c30aa6$c8ee86b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:16:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [h-cost] silk thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, i browsed google and searched for chenille thread. Then i found this place: http://www.aurorasilk.com/shop/silk_knityarn.shtml Would you know, that they have a lot of colours to choose from in silk chenille? Oh my, i am going to get some of that. Their silk floss looks fabulous two......... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 17:58:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLw9qa019650 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLw8cf013620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLtREi003108; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:55:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLtMEi002965 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user80.net380.nc.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.65.80]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3OLtHj09209 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:55:17 -0500 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:55:14 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000b01c30a7d$3f03a8a0$655183d1@rmitchellras> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <> Kathleen, I don't think so. My area of study is primarily 1850-1870 (although I'll look at anything!). Although I don't have a large personal collection, in 35 years I've probably looked at (best guesstimate here) 500+ dresses/bodices. Most of these have been American and east of the Mississippi, with about 5% documented to Europe and other 5% documented to the western USA. The 30% figure I mentioned seems to hold true no matter what area of the country. 500+ dresses is not a very large sampling when you take into consideration how many dresses existed during this period, but the precentage of padded bodices I've seen thus far seem to indicate it was relatively common. Some one else asked about photos. I do have some, but (a) don't have permission to post them on the Internet, and (b) don't have the technical expertise to do it if I did. If I find a link to any images that show the padding I'll mention them here. I love the gentlemen's vests with removable padding also! Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Citizens of the 1860s Conference - March 4-7, 2004 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:10:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMA8qa019689 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:10:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMBWcf015051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OM8oEi011986; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:08:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41012.mail.yahoo.com (web41012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OM8mEi011912 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:08:43 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Tania Gruning To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:18:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMI6qa019713 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMJIcf015900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMJB24019284; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMJ824019226 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.12c.28ae502d (4380) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:56 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <12c.28ae502d.2bd9bcd0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/24/03 6:12:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tania_gr17@yahoo.com writes: > I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I > did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. > Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What > would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost > close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. This might sound mean, or blunt. Take a tape measure, measure out 16". See how tiny that is? Even if you *can* get your waist that small, it can't be healthy. Christine Who is an advocate of corsets, so long as the compression isn't more than 6" smaller than a woman's natural waist size! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:24:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMO1qa019727 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:24:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLP2cf010033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLP1al010583; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OLOual010507 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3OLO7x07708 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:24:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304242124.h3OLO7x07708@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Try the login I posted earlier: D'oh. Missed that part. My husband got up at 5am to pack his car for a roadtrip. He finally left at about 8:30am. My sleep schedule is just *all* screwed up now. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:26:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMQGqa019733 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:26:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMRdcf016833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMRc24024816; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:27:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMRY25024774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:27:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 198pE5-0000mr-00; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:29:57 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 198pBt-0005PV-00; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:27:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Carolann Schmitt Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Simplicity pattern book In-Reply-To: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: "'Historical Costume'" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will see if I can find any bodices in my collection with the padding and post some pictures. Katy On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Carolann Schmitt wrote: ><about 30 years and have never found padding in any of the items for women.>> > >Kathleen, >I don't think so. My area of study is primarily 1850-1870 (although I'll >look at anything!). Although I don't have a large personal collection, in 35 >years I've probably looked at (best guesstimate here) 500+ dresses/bodices. >Most of these have been American and east of the Mississippi, with about 5% >documented to Europe and other 5% documented to the western USA. The 30% >figure I mentioned seems to hold true no matter what area of the country. >500+ dresses is not a very large sampling when you take into consideration >how many dresses existed during this period, but the precentage of padded >bodices I've seen thus far seem to indicate it was relatively common. > >Some one else asked about photos. I do have some, but (a) don't have >permission to post them on the Internet, and (b) don't have the technical >expertise to do it if I did. If I find a link to any images that show the >padding I'll mention them here. > >I love the gentlemen's vests with removable padding also! > >Carolann Schmitt >cschmitt@genteelarts.com >www.genteelarts.com >Citizens of the 1860s Conference - March 4-7, 2004 > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:26:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMQkqa019736 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:26:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMS4cf016945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMS324025066; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com [66.96.128.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OMRl24024863 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10306 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2003 22:20:59 -0000 Received: from dialup-65.59.17.155.dial1.denver1.level3.net (HELO costumepress.com) (65.59.17.155) by -H with SMTP; 24 Apr 2003 22:20:59 -0000 Message-ID: <3EA864D6.DD2EAD70@costumepress.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:27:35 -0600 From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photos from Costume Con References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is from Betsy Delaney, Costume Con web mistress: When I have access to the official photos and the participant/awards lists, I'll be putting everything online. Hopefully, the rest of the lists will arrive the end of this week, so I can get that info up at least. Generally speaking, it takes at least 6 weeks to get all the photos. Having the official video in my hands helps identify the images, and that sometimes takes longer. I wouldn't look for photos on the site until at least the beginning of June, if not longer. OTOH, if anyone has questions about the process, please send email to Costume-Con@Costume-Con.org, and I'll be happy to help in any way I can! Also watch out for an overhaul of the site navigation structure, coming later this year. Cheers, Betsy Delaney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:28:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMSHqa019740 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMTDcf017069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMTC24025756; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com [66.96.128.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3OMTA24025686 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10583 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2003 22:22:23 -0000 Received: from dialup-65.59.17.155.dial1.denver1.level3.net (HELO costumepress.com) (65.59.17.155) by -H with SMTP; 24 Apr 2003 22:22:23 -0000 Message-ID: <3EA8652E.71EA17B7@costumepress.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:29:03 -0600 From: Mary Denise Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A 15 inch circle has a 5 inch diameter. Think about it. MD/Marged _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:31:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMV4qa019753 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:31:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMWGcf017530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMWF24027931; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMW924027855 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) RAA26293 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:32:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000e01c30ab1$c6b5d3c0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:35:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tania: Please remember that corsets didn't meet in the back--the edge to edge gap was often 2 inches or more so "almost closing" sounds like you have a workable corset. Historians are discounting that 15-16" waist of Scarlett O'Hara and I've seen few ads or claims in old catalog reprints of corsets being sold with that waist size. Most "off the rack" corsets started with waist measurements of 20 " and up and bust measurements of 32" and up for those meant for grown women. Most "Misses" sized wear seems to be what we call "juniors" now and it was sized for shorter, slighter wearers--the giveaway is that skirt lengths were a tad shorter and the cut a bit boxier. But most people in the corset-wearing era probably were slighter in build as they didn't eat as much, got more exercise in day-to-day living, and didn't usually live long enough to put on those middle-age pounds. Required clothing weighed more, people had to walk more just to get from point A to point B and most people had to grow or raise everything they ate so there wasn't the convience of eating the minute one was hungry. Of course, just as now, women would squeeze and/or diet themselves into a smaller size to meet the illustrated ideal. Think of the photos you see of impossibly tiny waists as about as much the normal female as models in fashion magazines today. And photos could be posed and retouched to conform to the fashionable ideal back then, the same as today. Hope this helps Cindy Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tania Gruning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets > > I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. > > Tania > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:31:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMVLqa019759 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:31:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMWZcf017569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMWY24028089; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMWW24028056 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be30.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.48]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C1DD747FF8A for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:32:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c30ab1$abae1e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:34:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Tania. This is a fact, that they laced very tight these days, but you must consider that they were smaller than we are today, and also their waists. I would say, that you should make your corset 20 inches. This would leave a gap behind about 1 - 11/2 inch. You will find that when the corset is laced, it is not as discomfortable as one would think. And when you have worn your corset for a while, your body will ajust to it. And i am sure there are others on this list who will say that it is two much, i.e two tight. But i think that one must suffer a little, to get the look, it pays........... Do you have Norah Waughs book about corsets and crinolines? This is all costumers bible................ It is available as a paper back. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tania Gruning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets > > I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. > > Tania > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:32:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMWbqa019766 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:32:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMY3cf017706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMY224029119; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMXx24029061 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00615 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:53:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:53:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41CA6B2E.6F20D3B7.0B5D5234@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Sideless surcotes, was Costume Con Notes, Photos, etc X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > Robin, I don't suppose you'd be willing to e-mail me some of your > surcoat notes? I missed it because of tech on Saturday (my tech > scheduled for: 12:30. When tech rehearsal actually began: 1:30. My > historic pre-judge sheduled for: 2. Actual time: 2:40 or so. Actual > tech for SF&F: 3:20 or so). I'm dying to make a historically accurate > kirtle and sideless surcoat, and my research thus far has yielded very > little. The kirtle is the easy part -- it's the basic Gothic fitted dress, at least for the time span in which the sideless surcote developed and was most likely worn. Pick your favorite theory on construction, as long as it raises your bust, curves your spine, and lets your belly push out. For my preferred approach, see my posts and handout at . The surcote is another matter, though. Sorry I don't have any notes in an acceptable format to email; my lecture is heavily slide-dependent. The gist of it is, though, that a large proportion of the medieval images of the sideless surcote are almost certainly symbolic, not realistic images of how real women dressed, and the later you go, the less likely the artist was to have ever even seen an actual sideless surcote. The earliest versions (mid-1300s, when the sides first start being cut in a scoop) do seem likely to have been worn by noblewomen, though once you start seeing the fur additions you're probably dealing with a garment of royalty and possibly *very* high nobility (e.g. duchesses). After 1400 or so, the garment seems to move into ceremonial use only, even for queens, and by the last half of the 15th century the visual images are almost all in very specific iconographical contexts that have little to do with reality. You get some truly bizarre renditions by then -- I have some fun slides on this. This all makes much more sense when I can show pictures! The entire discussion involves a lot of examples and art historical explanation. (BTW, none of this applies to Spain or Italy.) Anyway, if you want a realistic surcote, focus on images from the 1300s. Later ones are more likely to be royal. Avoid brasses and funerary sculpture as a source on wearers and class level (heavy-duty symbolism involved in this usage), though they're probably OK as a visual source of royal ceremonial surcotes through the early 1400s. I've had the most success in cutting the surcote by goring to the desired width (the later, the wider) with the flare coming from waist level, and making an extremely tight U-turn off the bodice-area panels right at the sides of the waist (forming cut-out circles just 3-4 inches in diameter). This curve is pulled open into the characteristic "U" by the weight of the skirts. If you try to cut the skirts in the desired shape you will get all sorts of awful distortion, with the folding concentrated at the bottom of the opening rather than distributed evenly around. Remember that the bodice is cut in one with the skirt; the fur part, when you have it, is decoration. And don't even think of trying to pleat or gather the sides in, unless you're doing Victorian fancy dress! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 18:38:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMbbqa019781 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:37:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMcxcf018178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:39:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMcx24002900; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3OMcu24002861 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDV00M03DKTNE@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:34:02 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets In-reply-to: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424152332.02c5ee90@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/23/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Tania, I have seen old Victorian photos of women who have the "wasp waist" look, and have read accounts of how they removed ribs to achieve this. Doing a brief google search... Here is a site for someone who is actually 14.5 inches in waist. http://www.staylace.com/pinups/spook/ I have seen other pics in the past on the Internet of a modern woman who is smaller, I think 13 or so. She was dressed in Victorian garb, but the small size was just ... unnerving to look at to my modern eyes. It might be different for others, especially those who wear corsets for fetish reasons. I personally do NOT advocate such small sizes in corsetry, and this site explains the many health reasons why not: (warning lots of spam popups) http://www.angelfire.com/biz/halycon/wspwst.html The usual corset sizes I have seen is 2-4 inches smaller than your natural waistline. Even on larger women that is usually enough to provide the look without too much discomfort or damage. Unfortunately, many of the women I have helped into corsets over the years go for much smaller than that. I have tried it a couple of times, but find the lack of breath and inability to eat and other problems not worth the smaller size. hth answers your question. Kimiko At 03:08 PM 4/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I >did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. >Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What >would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost >close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. > >Tania Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 19:03:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ON3aqa019862 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ON4ucf020596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ON4s6B020312; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:04:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail15.nyc.untd.com (outbound-20.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3ON4o6B020240 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:04:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3QRC0lpg7lA2E6Na2UGXy7umCLMh7RQ/HA==">; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:04:00 EDT Received: (from btana@juno.com) by webmail15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWKMRVWZ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:04:00 EDT Received: from [67.31.134.71] by webmail15.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:03:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.31.134.71] X-Original-From: "BTana_Qul_mupwI" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:03:37 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: WebMail Version 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: BTana_Qul_mupwI Message-Id: <20030424.190400.15967.43865@webmail15.nyc.untd.com> Subject: [h-cost] Gone No Mail X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just to let you know, I've got my comp in the shop, so I've had to go no mail until I get it back. I took it in Tuesday, and the tech just looked at it this morning, only cursory. So, I don't know how long it will be. I'll try to catch up when I get back. Astrid Never argue with a Dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 19:28:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONS7qa019992 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONTWcf023116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONTV6B005405; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f102.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONTT6B005343 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:29:24 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:29:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:29:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2003 23:29:24.0170 (UTC) FILETIME=[570552A0:01C30AB9] Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a webpage called tightlacers.com that is very informative about this subject. I spent some time looking through the pages a while back and was strangely fascinated by this. Be fore warned... There may be some disturbing images that you really don't want to view. Also, do you remember from Little House on the Prairie that Pa could put both hands around Ma's waist? I was always told that this was a desirable quality in women of that time. If you start wearing corsets in your early teen years, while your body is still growing and your bones are more flexible you could make your waist unnaturally small a lot easier then if you or I tried to cinch a corset as small as it will go. :) jessica >Message: 9 >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:08:43 -0700 (PDT) >From: Tania Gruning >Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I >did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. >Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What >would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost >close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. > >Tania > > > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 19:42:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONg7qa020034 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONhQcf024355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONhP6B013229; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12505.mail.yahoo.com (web12505.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3ONhM6B013200 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030424234322.81867.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.41.38.39] by web12505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:43:22 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:43:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304242239.h3OMdL26003135@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Corsets & fashion Vs common sense X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks, after following the link below: http://www.staylace.com/pinups/spook/spook11.jpg I just about lost my dinner. No offense to anyone who likes the wasp waist look (hey, I have a couple of corsets myself tho its near impossible to self lace ;) but this girl's waist is the size of my BICEP!!!!!!!! My CALVES are bigger than her waist, and while I am no skinny mini, I am pretty average for an american female 38-30-39 on a good day without corset ;) and few would look at me and go "she looks like she weighs 165 if she weighs an ounce, da cow" (most guess me at 140-145 yay!) .. but no offense intended to anyone who is exceptionally slim (wish my metabolism ran that fast!!!) but there is such a thing as looking unnatural and unhealthy. A corset should cinch your waist no more that 3-4 inches without a long time in training, especially if you plan to wear it for longer than a photo shoot. If I can get my waist down to a 28 I consider it a miracle if I don't pass out .. so yeah, wimp here .. and I will never be below the mid-20's even if I sew my mouth shut (body is just not built like that here! ;) ...but remember .. comfort is key .. look is cool but if you turn purple or crack a rib while lacing, what's the fun of that? Unless you're also into some extreme fetishism (to each their own ;) I don't think the average person, costumer or not, is willing to go into THOSE kind of extremes even for the sake of that "wow" factor ;) Maybe I am wrong but hey .. you're the one who has to try breathing in it and moving in it ... - Lil (waspish but not wasp waisted ;) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 19:53:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONrhqa020056 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:53:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONrBcf025213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONrA6B018553; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ONr26B018420 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.16e.1da6f80f (3874) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:11:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <16e.1da6f80f.2bd9c935@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:11:49 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] More Cavalier Information... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All! I have already gotten some good advice, and a lot of my friends have jumped in to help. Which has been really great, since I really have been feeling like I am out of depth on this one. (I am sure I have already said that.) Here is some added information... A friend of mine has a copy of the Costume Connections pattern to loan me. http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_8.html I realize this is not the most authentic pattern, but it gives me a better starting place than I had before. And, I don't have draft my own pattern. I have read the GBACG Review of the pattern and taken into account what they had to say. (http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/costumeconnection.htm) If anyone else has used this pattern and has some tips, I would greatly appreciate it! Nicole, you asked me what decades I was looking at, and at the time I didn't have a clue. In fact, I feel I don't have a much better one now, but to answer your question, it looks like roughly the 1630s. The following URL's are paintings, I have been looking at, and getting ideas from. Since I can almost never use a pattern just the way it is, I am already making some changes to the pattern in my mind. 1629 http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1629_2.shtml Mostly, I love the sleeves on this dress. But I think the rest of the dress looks a little too late for them. 1632 http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1632_4.shtml 1636 http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1636_2.shtml 1633 http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?41378+0+0+gg4243 As far as I am concerned, if I had the time, there would be no i nterpretations. There would be no predrafted pattern. Because this would be the dress I would make. However, time is not infinate in this case. :( Thank you for the help already offered and in advance for any more that is sent my way. Sincerely, Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 20:16:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0Gxqa020138 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:16:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0IJcf027669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0ICKN003907; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0IBKO003877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h3P0IAjH003872 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:18:10 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corsets & fashion Vs common sense Message-ID: <20030425001809.GF3412@net.indra.com> References: <200304242239.h3OMdL26003135@net.indra.com> <20030424234322.81867.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030424234322.81867.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We've had discussions about tight lacing and staylace in particular, and they became quite heated. Please - let's not go through that again. Thanks, ...eliz, list admin -- Please allow 8-12 weeks for delivery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 20:22:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0Mvqa020152 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:22:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0OMcf028372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0OLKN007846; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P0OIKN007794 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDV007J1IB1P9@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:21:01 -0500 From: Allison In-reply-to: <200304240223.h3O2N5vi000628@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com, "Margo's Patterns List" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con to deal with my crashed computer... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all. I had a wonderful time at Costume Con! And before I go any further, Robin, that was me in the MODieval Burgundian. I wish we had a photo together. As a lurker who has been to only one and 1/2 RenFaires, I had no knowledge of just what this Costume Con thing was. My purpose in attending was in hopes of meeting some folks to play with, and who would understand this obsession I have developed with costuming. Well, folks, I am here to say Costume Con exceeded my expectations, and that I am delighted to have met all of you. :-))) (BTW, for those who have - like me - been intimidated by Margo's serious photo on her web site, not only is she a costume goddess, she is one really groovy chick!) Today I picked up my sewing machine from its maintenance trip - handily taken care of while I was gone - AND I was able to get my computer fixed (I was more upset about the possibility of losing my hundreds of costuming bookmarks than anything else!) and have spent the past couple of hours catching up on email. I took lots of pictures, but it will be a while before I post them as I don't really know how to do it yet...but Wayne ("Mister Margo") has lots of them as well, and I KNOW he is computer savvy! One thing in particular I learned, that I was unsure of before the trip, was TAKE COSTUMES! Since I only took one costume (for the Friday Social) I felt rather underdressed most of the time, and seeing all the different types of costumes, of all levels of skill, I really wanted to come home and start sewing right away! And, dagnabbit, I have now developed an interest in costumes from other periods than my main focus...so that means MORE fabric. And more research. And more URLs to bookmark. (Gee, thanks, Robin...NOW I have to have a BFD...erm...GFD!) All you Margo's and h-costume folks are great, and I am having severe withdrawal! I can't wait until Atlanta!!! (And in the meantime, please count me in on the midwest get-together plans for this summer...) Okay. Back to lurking. Allison (The one WITHOUT the red and black hair!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 21:48:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1mOqa020330 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:48:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1nlcf005477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1nfTR020453; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f90.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1ndTR020398 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:46:04 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:46:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] This is so funny Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:46:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2003 01:46:04.0539 (UTC) FILETIME=[6ED254B0:01C30ACC] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! when I >was pregnant with my first child. She swore that my child would be marked >or deformed because I went to see the movie The Exorcist when I was >pregnant. Mom said that if I saw something scary while pregnant and >touched >a place on my body, especially my stomach, my child would be marked for >life. LOL!!! I lived alone when I was pregnant with my oldest daughter and loved to watch late night scary movies. One night there was a marathon of the "It's Alive!" series. Talk about wondering while 18 and pregnant. Those women were having carnivorous monsters while I watched my belly roll around with her movements!! *grin* Of course, now Felicia and I hunt to find a scarier movie than the last. ;) Jen _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 21:51:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1pdqa020334 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:51:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1r0cf005762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1qxTR022260; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f106.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P1qtTR022178 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:52:50 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:52:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:52:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2003 01:52:50.0506 (UTC) FILETIME=[60CBFAA0:01C30ACD] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Dear All. > >I was wondering if somebody on the list was desperate to get something from >Denmark. > >I would really like to get two patterns from simplicity and the nearest >outlet from where I am is in either London or Paris, and as a poor student >I cannot go there just to get a pattern . > >It is the simplicity Design: > >9769 Sizes: 6 to 20 Misses' Authentic Civil War Undergarments > >And >Design: 7215 Sizes: 6 to 20 Misses Chemise and Corset > >The one for my first victorian corset and the other for when I need a >challenge. > >Yours Sincerely > >Tania > I just cut out the corset from this pattern for a first try. I will have to tinker a bit as I'm two sizes bigger below the waist than above. I'll let you know how it goes. They didn't mark the pieces of the pattern for top and bottom, so I hope I extended the right sections to make mine a little longer. ;} Oh well, it wont be the first rediculous goof I've made venturing into a new realm of sewing/costuming. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 22:09:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P29Kqa020363 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2Aecf007174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2Aeqo001140; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:10:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2Abqo001124 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C8E1C391F for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 6C1BF401C; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:10:36 -0700 (PDT) From: prairielark To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Serpent's Kiss - 17th c. shirt ? X-Originating-Ip: [24.74.27.39] Message-Id: <20030425021037.6C1BF401C@sitemail.everyone.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The year is in the late 1690s; it is implied by the characters references to the new year/new century (as in, will the garden at the center of the movie's plot be completed in time). "Runnel" is a channel, yes. Sorry the word doesn't translate well across the pond. My grandmother in rural Tennessee always called them "runnels," anything you put a drawstring or elastic thru. I guess I picked up her word without realizing it would be strange to anyone outside our region. And yes, it is stitched to only part of the gathered neck edge. The front part hangs free and there seems to be a drawstring in it. I will try to draw it and put it up on the web somewhere (geocities maybe) so you can look at it. And, after I looked at the movie carefully again, it is only obvious on some of the men's shirts, not all of them as I first said. Thanks for your help, P. --- "Kate M Bunting" wrote: >I found the description confusing too. I assume the "runnel" is a channel for a drawstring, but surely 17th century shirts didn't have attached collars? Does Phoebe mean that the neckband is only stitched to part of the gathered neck edge? >I looked at the Internet Movie Database to see if I could find any pictures, but I couldn't, and the reviewers can't seem to agree in what period the film is set. The costume designer was Consolata Boyle. > > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 03/21/03 05:43pm >>> >I'd love to be able to help/answer but I fear I don't understand a word of your >description. Sorry... I just can't picture it nor actually understand some >words, I have never come across the word 'runnelled'. > >Nicole > >> Before attaching the collar, a tiny runnel is fashioned at the topmost edge >> of the front of the shirt opening, and a narrow cord is inserted. Then the >> collar is attached in what appears to be an abutted edge seam to the top of >> this runnel, and only about half of the runnelled edge is used, with the >> remainder left to gather before tying. The shirt neckline gathers up and >> ties closed at the top neck edge instead of being fastened with a button >> under the collar. The corded gathers appear to be in place of what we >> normally see as a stroke-gathered seam on 18c shirts where the collar is >> joined. I hope this is not too confusing. Please let me know what you folks >> think, esp. those of you who have worked on period films. I would really >> like to try this technique because it looked very beautiful. >> >> Phoebe >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Herspace.com >> [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] >> http://www.herspace.com >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No >> Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >===== >"Brains, not Bombs" >www.stopthewar.org.uk/ > >Nicole Kipar M.A. >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: nicole@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >________________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan >service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working >around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com >________________________________________________________________________ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 22:24:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2O7qa020405 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2PXcf008223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:25:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2PWqo007883; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2PUqo007799 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.206.137.62] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 157197562 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3EA89D65.3050906@accessus.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:28:53 -0500 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > >In the first full row labeled "Future Fashion Folio," the third photo is >the "Death's Bride" gown with skeleton motifs that Karen Heim designed. In >the next row, the first photo is Pierre Pettinger in Ann's design of the >fractal robe. > Sure is, and the next photo is me! Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 22:38:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2c9qa020418 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:38:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2dacf009300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2dYqo015290; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thunder.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2dUqo015207 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:39:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from main (dialup-a2-162.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.248.162])h3P2dSbi005437 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:39:29 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <02cd01c30ad4$5011e380$a2f871cb@mshome.net> From: "Ray Nevin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Peter Pan Collars Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:42:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My book on pattern drafting from the 1940s has a section on collars. On Flat Collars it states that "collars of this type are the Peter Pan and the Sailor Collar, and variations of these". Variations of these include a fluted edge peter pan collar. Sharon Nevin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 22:44:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2i8qa020431 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:44:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2jWcf009659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2jVqo017925; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail8.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail8.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P2jRqp017893 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h3P2jQ5Y029049 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:45:27 -0400 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.41.169]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:45:26 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:15:21 -0400 Message-ID: <003101c30ad4$b8c1d0c0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is so much to say - the weekend was fabulous but overwhelming!! To sum up in an inadequate fashion: Hung out with: Margo & spouse, the other Allison, Danielle, Anna, Kate, Drea, Teddy and so many more! The talent was awesome and the enthusiasm infectious - look for several hot pink sparkly things next year! Saw: Sue and the man eating lions at the Field Museum, fantastic hall costumes, unbelievably good competitive costumes (Judy, I was stunned to learn that your entry was entirely hand-stitched!), beautifully crafted dolls, many beautiful things.... Learned: how to scale up from 2d to 3d, the history of costuming at cons (this was my first Costume Con), the hash that the Victorians made of medieval costume history, how to embellish cabochon stones, the concept of chaos costuming, pitfalls of costume research and historical re-enacting, and.. again, too much more to mention! Witnessed - fantastic masquerades and fun Friday night social! I am still somewhat exhausted from the weekend and not typing clearly, but suffice it to say I had a great time and plan to be in Atlanta next year. If I forgot someone/something/a class/etc. I do apologize; I didn't mean to but there was just SO MUCH! Allison (T.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 23:19:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3JUqa020473 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:19:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3Kpcf012348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:20:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3KnFw005754; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3KkFw005730 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:20:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:20:46 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424221716.00a1a8c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:25:52 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's a couple of me in this set. 7th row is me in my fairy costume. 4th row from the bottom is a good one of my black and white masquerade dress. Thanks for posting these links, Robin! Sheryl Nance-Durst At 10:05 AM 4/24/03 -0500, you wrote: >On this page, first row, third photo: > http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6781787/t_=3381905 >...you'll find Danielle (in the black) with another 20's person (in blue). >Danielle's dress belonged to Tom's ?great-aunt? grandmother? -- he brought >this and another over from England for her to wear. It was fun watching >Teddy and Tom dress Danielle up with the various accessories they'd just >happened to bring along. The fourth picture has a better view of Danielle >and a lousy one of me. > >On that same page, in the seventh row, you'll see Danielle again, in red. > >Even further down: The 2nd through 8th of the photos labeled F&SF >Masquerade are from the "Court of the Crimson King" presentation; the >woman in the yellow is the Fire Witch. The moth scenario just after that >was a stunner too. > >A couple of rows down is Dr. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. The twist >here is that when they turn around, you see logos on their backs: the >green is 7-Up, the purple is Grape Nehi, the orange is Orange Crush, and >the red is Dr. Pepper. The costumes had some wonderful detail, including >vintage bottlecaps for the buttons; the epaulets are huge pull-tabs. > >At the end of the same row is one of my favorites: The Digital Revolution. >Full French Revolution costume with copious use of CDs, glowing circuitry, >etc. The curly wig is made of videotape. > >Next row, third photo, is (I think) Tom, in b/w Italian Ren. > >In the first full row labeled "Future Fashion Folio," the third photo is >the "Death's Bride" gown with skeleton motifs that Karen Heim designed. In >the next row, the first photo is Pierre Pettinger in Ann's design of the >fractal robe. > >I'm sure there are other h-cost-linked people in this set, particularly >the various Elizabethan hall costumes and the historical masquerade >entries, but you'll have to identify yourselves! I'm running out of names, >and my computer loads much too slowly. > >--Robin > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 23:23:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3NCqa020484 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3Obcf012580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3OaFw007280; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail7.kc.rr.com (fe7.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.162.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3OYFw007264 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:24:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail7.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:23:53 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424222850.00a04e80@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:29:40 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Back from Costume Con to deal with my crashed computer... In-Reply-To: References: <200304240223.h3O2N5vi000628@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Allison (The one WITHOUT the red and black hair!) Aha! Then you must be the one that I met! Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 23:31:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3VUqa020509 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:31:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3Wicf013178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3WhFw010909; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3WeFw010853 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.54.185.111]) by mtaout09.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDV001KKR6663@mtaout09.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:32:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:32:41 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3EA8AC59.4060507@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 References: <200304241633.h3OGXKEa027124@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Teddy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok... feeling *really* dumb now... For some reason I kept thinking that Teddy looked familiar but I couldn't figure out why, other than maybe a picture here or there. Somehow I missed the fact that he'd been to CC15, which would explain it (there are actually a fair number of people I met in Seattle and/or Baltimore who I *knew* I had met, some I could even place names to). (Seriously trying to work out Atlanta for next year... ) -Elisabeth >From: Robin Netherton > >On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote: > >>Mr. Betsy is in a series by Julian May about Pliocene Exiles: The >>Many Colored Land, The Golden Torc, The Non-Born King and The >>Adversary. (All published between 1981-1984). Very spiff costume >>concept and I definitely wanna see pics when Teddy's done! >> >>(I never wanted to do that one, I wanted to do one of Tanu) >> >> > >Like this? > >http://www.ireadh.demon.co.uk/cguk/ccxvdisp/page5.html > >And yes, that's Teddy :-) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Apr 24 23:44:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3iZqa020543 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:44:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3k1cf013916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P3k0Fw016848; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3P3juFw016755 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCooPJfTmL2YCQZogUBXbLZgzGuHrfv2grA==">; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:45:13 EDT Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWK5US8F; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:45:13 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:39:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Teddy Message-ID: <20030424.223907.-134071561.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,5-6,10-16,18-20,22-24,26-30 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That picture was taken at a WorldCon 95 in Britain, not at a CostumeCon. Teddy has only ever been to Boston for general visits, he's never been to a CostuemCon before, this is his first time in the Heartland. I am speaking for him because he's not on h-cost at this time, but he IS living in my sewing room so I have it on good authority! By the way, he's really enjoying all the comments about him and the pictures of his stint as an Iron Costumer judge. Tom is also enjoying the comments about him and was happy to have been entertaining as un-official commentator. Karen On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:32:41 -0400 Cozit / Liz writes: > Ok... feeling *really* dumb now... For some reason I kept thinking > that Teddy looked familiar but I couldn't figure out why, other than > maybe a picture here or there. Somehow I missed the fact that he'd been to > > CC15, which would explain it (there are actually a fair number of > people I met in Seattle and/or Baltimore who I *knew* I had met, some I > could even place names to). > > (Seriously trying to work out Atlanta for next year... ) > > -Elisabeth ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 00:10:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4Asqa020580 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:10:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4CFcf015381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:12:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4CE86029028; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:12:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12505.mail.yahoo.com (web12505.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3P4CB86028996 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030425041211.24228.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.41.38.39] by web12505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:12:11 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:12:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304250333.h3P3X5G0011089@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Corset Patterns /Underthings for Tania (ALso a Question on Buttons & Jewelry) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tania, couln't find your email so I am replying enmasse .. I have the two patterns in question (uncut/unopened) and also have way too much boning on hand (of the shorter variety spring steel) .. If you're interested let me know ;) Ok, question to put out to y'all .. over the last few years I've become a bit of a magpie, collecting bright shiny pretties into a hoarde .. the thing is .. I don't wear them, don't really do much with 99% of them, and am finding myself tripping over them more than anything else. I;ve considered listing them in lots on ebay but its hard to photograph small pretty sparklies (anything from rhinestone buttons and sew on decorations to actual costume jewelry in both gold and silvertones)without specialized equipment and my camera just makes it all a pretty mess ... Would an SCA (probably not for the rhinestoney things ;) event or a con be a good place to get a table and sell them off? I have never been a merchant (and hate the whole haggle/bargain thing) and don't know if its worth the time and effort. I've had some REALLY bad experiences with consignments to a "store" so I'd rather not go that route ... Any suggestions? I have *some* photos but they are pretty much blurry ... http://www.dark-goddess.com/ebabe/hoard/ http://www.dark-goddess.com/ebabe/hoard/cloak11.jpg is one example of an enameled cloak brooch and I have matching earrings (please ignore the ones labeled box and china - they are not jewelry just a dress and some photos for insurance that a damaged box arrived ;) ... Anyways, pardon the babble .. just getting frustrated with ebay right now ... *sigh* and pouting over missing costume con = ( There's always NEXT YEAR IN ATLANTA!!! YAY@! - Lil (magpie wanna-be) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 00:27:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4RIqa020603 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:27:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4SWcf016728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4SU86007082; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.mn.rr.com (fe1.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4SQ86007046 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:28:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.27.148]) by mail1.mn.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:28:26 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030424232314.03498b20@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:28:31 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets In-Reply-To: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> References: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:08 PM 4/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I >did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. >Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What >would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost >close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. > >Tania Well, I did a paper on 1890s corsetry and clothing for school last year and I found that the 15-16 inch waist seems to be more myth than fact - I'm sure there were a few "professional beauties" who might have achieved that but, certainly not the average woman. Look at the mail-order catalogues for the time (i.e. Sears Roebuck and Bloomingdales) the corset pages clearly state, order a corset size two inches smaller than your uncorseted waist measurement. The smallest sizes available were 18 and 20 (varied between corset styles) while they went up to 30+ inches. This would suggest to me that they weren't after or achieving the fabled 15 inches. Also, a study was done of the clothing in the Florida University collection and the average waist size for the 1890s day dresses was around 28 inches while the evening gowns from the same period got down to 24 inches. You are well within the normal range for the end of the 19th century without injuring yourself. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 00:29:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4TYqa020606 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4V1cf016901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4V086008328; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3P4Uv86008271 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:30:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWnLofFwJnCTzPNhUAhiZLtZ489GDl/Gzow==">; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:30:00 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWK8ESRW; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:30:00 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:22:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Patterns /Underthings for Tania (ALso a Question on Buttons & Jewelry) Message-ID: <20030425.002235.-588817.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-8,13-15 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just skipped through and looked at half a dozen pieces (I would love to have the ones listed as ear 15 01 - let me know if they go up on eBay) and think the photography is about as good as any I have seen on eBay. My suggestion would be to put a piece of tissue over your flash when taking close up shots of shiny stuff and you won't get the bounce back that makes the piece look blurry. And instead of using a finger, a small ruler might work for sizing, but you can also just give the size in the description. I have been merchanting in SCA for about a year and have found it rather fun. Most people don't make an issue of haggling and if you say the price is firm they either take it or leave it. So give it a try and see how it goes. It doesn't cost anything to try and you might find it fun. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 00:41:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4f8qa020634 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:41:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4gYcf018818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4gX86014329; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:42:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P4gV86014291 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:42:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m79.in-tch.com [216.166.191.79]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3P4OUv09678 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:24:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EA8BCFE.1A37AF8A@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:43:42 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sideless surcotes, was Costume Con Notes, Photos, etc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shades of ghosts from a distant past........I have copies of a certain "Mistress Lyra's Sideless Surcoat" handout..... I *am* bribable ;-D --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > > > Robin, I don't suppose you'd be willing to e-mail me some of your > > surcoat notes? I missed it because of tech on Saturday (my tech > > scheduled for: 12:30. When tech rehearsal actually began: 1:30. My > > historic pre-judge sheduled for: 2. Actual time: 2:40 or so. Actual > > tech for SF&F: 3:20 or so). I'm dying to make a historically accurate > > kirtle and sideless surcoat, and my research thus far has yielded very > > little. > > The kirtle is the easy part -- it's the basic Gothic fitted dress, at > least for the time span in which the sideless surcote developed and was > most likely worn. Pick your favorite theory on construction, as long as it > raises your bust, curves your spine, and lets your belly push out. For my > preferred approach, see my posts and handout at > . > > The surcote is another matter, though. Sorry I don't have any notes in an > acceptable format to email; my lecture is heavily slide-dependent. The > gist of it is, though, that a large proportion of the medieval images of > the sideless surcote are almost certainly symbolic, not realistic images > of how real women dressed, and the later you go, the less likely the > artist was to have ever even seen an actual sideless surcote. The earliest > versions (mid-1300s, when the sides first start being cut in a scoop) do > seem likely to have been worn by noblewomen, though once you start seeing > the fur additions you're probably dealing with a garment of royalty and > possibly *very* high nobility (e.g. duchesses). After 1400 or so, the > garment seems to move into ceremonial use only, even for queens, and by > the last half of the 15th century the visual images are almost all in very > specific iconographical contexts that have little to do with reality. You > get some truly bizarre renditions by then -- I have some fun slides on > this. This all makes much more sense when I can show pictures! The > entire discussion involves a lot of examples and art historical > explanation. > > (BTW, none of this applies to Spain or Italy.) > > Anyway, if you want a realistic surcote, focus on images from the 1300s. > Later ones are more likely to be royal. Avoid brasses and funerary > sculpture as a source on wearers and class level (heavy-duty symbolism > involved in this usage), though they're probably OK as a visual source of > royal ceremonial surcotes through the early 1400s. > > I've had the most success in cutting the surcote by goring to the desired > width (the later, the wider) with the flare coming from waist level, and > making an extremely tight U-turn off the bodice-area panels right at the > sides of the waist (forming cut-out circles just 3-4 inches in diameter). > This curve is pulled open into the characteristic "U" by the weight of the > skirts. If you try to cut the skirts in the desired shape you will get all > sorts of awful distortion, with the folding concentrated at the bottom of > the opening rather than distributed evenly around. Remember that the > bodice is cut in one with the skirt; the fur part, when you have it, is > decoration. And don't even think of trying to pleat or gather the sides > in, unless you're doing Victorian fancy dress! > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 03:36:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P7a7qa004086 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:36:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P7bWcf000391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P7bU7t028874; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3P7bR7t028811 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030425073722.73937.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:37:22 BST Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:37:22 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Serpent's Kiss - 17th c. shirt ? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030425021037.6C1BF401C@sitemail.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- prairielark wrote: > The year is in the late 1690s; it is implied by the characters references to > the new year/new century (as in, will the garden at the center of the movie's > plot be completed in time). "Runnel" is a channel, yes. Sorry the word > doesn't translate well across the pond. My grandmother in rural Tennessee > always called them "runnels," anything you put a drawstring or elastic thru. > I guess I picked up her word without realizing it would be strange to anyone > outside our region. And yes, it is stitched to only part of the gathered > neck edge. The front part hangs free and there seems to be a drawstring in > it. I will try to draw it and put it up on the web somewhere (geocities > maybe) so you can look at it. And, after I looked at the movie carefully > again, it is only obvious on some of the men's shirts, not all of them as I > first said. > Thanks for your help, P. I had researched the neck finishing of shirts in the 1690s/1700 and went through all the extant ones I could find (mostly earlier except that of the Lord Clapham doll) and all the paintings that showed necks. There are quite a few that show the shirt open and the ribbon hanging loose with two buttonholes one on each side and a ribbon threaded through those to close the neck. Pretty much just like a chemise, the difference being the cut and stand-up collar of course. I have not come across a single reference for or evidence of any kind of drawstring in necks of shirts I'm afraid. There are even some shirts with small white thread covered buttons that close the collar. Nicole ===== "Brains, not Bombs" http://www.stopthewar.org.uk/ Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 04:15:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8Fbqa016099 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 04:15:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8H1cf003101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8GvFK018317; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8GsFK018285 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3P8Grp06987.; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:16:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:16:53 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:16:23 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Peter Pan Collars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3P8GsFK018285 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's worth pointing out that the 17th century falling bands had numerous darts at the back to shape them to the shoulders. I didn't realise this when I first started, and designed my first one as a flat shape, presumably like the cut of a Peter Pan collar. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> jessicastier@hotmail.com 04/24/03 04:46pm >>> Thanks for the thoughts on the Peter Pan Collar origins. I have a couple of ideas to look into... The idea that it is similar to the cavalier style collars in very interesting. I am going to look into that more. I also will work backwards from the production of Peter Pan in the 1950's. This couldn't be the first time, in history, that this collar surfaced, could it? Just a little tangent brought on by the creative juices of draping. Thanks! :) jessica >From Kathleen: >Jessica, This is not evidence but a theory. This style collar was popular >in >the 1950's when the original musical production of Peter Pan became a huge >hit. Mary Martin's costume featured a cute collar that was widely repeated >in fashions for young misses. The collars were used on blouses as well a >separate bands to be worn with sweaters. >So that is my 'take' on the origin." From: Heather Meadows: "Well a Peter Pan collar is pretty much the same thing as a cavalier style large 'falling' collar, at least draping/drafting wise..." _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 04:35:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8ZIqa022237 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 04:35:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8agcf004048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8afFK025609; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3P8acFK025547 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-107-25.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.107.25] (may be forged))3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACG42481; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:36:30 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <02ce01c30b06$35e7d140$69774ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:39:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What would be a reasonable compression? Remember due to nutrition most Victorian people were smaller than us to start with. Having said that I've see adds for corsets with these very small sizes but also up to much bigger waists over 36 inches (described as stout :)) Extreme corseting was then & now not recommended. It damages your internal organs and can lead to failure of such vital parts, as well as effecting you fertility and safety in pregnancy. Doctors of the time warned against it and I would echo their worried now ! Then as now there were people who still damaged themselves to supposedly look good. Think of extreme corsetry as extreme diets, the psycology behind it is similar. But for occasional corsetry which I think is what you are after, 4 inches seems average without pain in most people. I disagree totally with "But i think that one must suffer a little, to get the look, it pays........." some of the pay back might be health wise. It is true your body will adapt and a reasonably laced corset will be fairly comfortable. I wear mine for a week at a time without too much of a worry and I've done long gorge walks and other activities in it. I would never wear a corset when pregnant or if contemplating pregnancy by the way . Finally go for flexibility in spiral boning rather than stiff boning. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 06:20:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PAK9qa023050 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 06:20:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PALWcf010183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 04:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PALVbF005179; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 04:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PALSbF005155 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 04:21:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p138-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.138] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1990Kb-00011y-00; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:21:26 +1200 Message-ID: <00cf01c30b14$6e6cc760$8acdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> <5.1.0.14.0.20030424152332.02c5ee90@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:21:26 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also, do you remember from Little House on the Prairie that Pa could put > both hands around Ma's waist? I was always told that this was a desirable > quality in women of that time. And how would that work for a working woman? Seriously it's a myth that this was a desired thing.. by fetishists yes... there was as much written against tightlacing as there was for.. and neither of them really represent the norm. Read the books by Valerie Steele. She soon dispells any 'romantic' notions of the idiocity of our ancestors. She even found that elusisve evidence that metal corsets were prescribed by at least one physician in the 16th C. Not to say that all the corsets in collections are for this purpose.. or that it was common practice. > I have seen old Victorian photos of women who have the "wasp waist" look, > and have read accounts of how they removed ribs to achieve this. Those accounts are myths yet again. No one can say who and where and when this woman occured. We have had several discussions on this in the recent past. Heck it's even been aimed at Cher! The closest things I can find are some accounts of actresses having facial surgery (which I haven't seen in any other resource) and of course Sarah Bernhardt having her leg amputated at a late stage in life. > I have seen other pics in the past on the Internet of a modern woman who is > smaller, I think 13 or so. She was dressed in Victorian garb, but the small > size was just ... unnerving to look at to my modern eyes. It might be > different for others, especially those who wear corsets for fetish reasons. Not normal (as in average.. I'm putting no moral values on this at all.. too inflamtory), then or now. Again, read Valerie Steele she has put a huge amount of time and effort into untangling the myths. Oh and I found that book she quotes with the diagram of a 15" waist. Yes, it really is about the size of a saucer. Fantastic book, all these movies stars from the 50s (or 40s was it?) in extant garments. Sigh... to think that to them it was like dresses from the 1900s to the 1950s really.... > Unfortunately, many of the women I have helped into corsets over the years > go for much smaller than that. I have tried it a couple of times, but find > the lack of breath and inability to eat and other problems not worth the > smaller size. I'm going to discuss the biggest problem I had and it involved the digestive tract so turn away now if you do not wish to read... * * * * I had a corset that only took me in a little, but my body shape and such made me just feel constipated and bloated and very uncomfortable and gassy. Breathing was no problem.. everything is normally very roomy through the bust as I am so small... but I can't stand anything around my diaphragm. Other than that I was fine. It didn't help that we were on set and well ... restrooms were thin on the ground and not very appealling.... michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 09:52:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PDq7qa023859 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:52:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PDrPcf023496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 07:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PDrMrq005754; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 07:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3PDrIrq005660 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 07:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030425135312.25386.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:53:12 BST Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:53:12 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Cavalier Information... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <16e.1da6f80f.2bd9c935@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya, > A friend of mine has a copy of the Costume Connections pattern to loan me. > > http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_8.html > > I realize this is not the most authentic pattern, but it gives me a better > starting place than I had before. And, I don't have draft my own pattern. I If it doesn't have to be authentic, then this should be fine, and why not, as long as you just want a costume. > have read the GBACG Review of the pattern and taken into account what they > had to say. (http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/costumeconnection.htm) If anyone Bust darts??? Urgh... that is perhaps a little terrible, can you somehow get rid of them? I assume the pattern uses thse because they don't assume proper undergarments or indeed a well boned bodice. > Nicole, you asked me what decades I was looking at, and at the time I didn't > have a clue. In fact, I feel I don't have a much better one now, but to > answer your question, it looks like roughly the 1630s. That's what I wondered because it is more or less (the late 1630s) what is popularly seen as the most typical Cavalier fashion. > 1629 > http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/pics/1629_2.shtml > > Mostly, I love the sleeves on this dress. But I think the rest of the dress > looks a little too late for them. I'd be careful, the painting is from 1629, I'd rather go with the later sleeves. > 1633 > http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?41378+0+0+gg4243 > > As far as I am concerned, if I had the time, there would be no i > nterpretations. There would be no predrafted pattern. Because this would be > the dress I would make. However, time is not infinate in this case. :( You could use those sleeves perhaps? If you have some metallic lace then that would be good for decoration of the seams of the bodice as seen in the paintings. I'd go for colours that are not pastel, but blues or greens or golden yellows. If you don't have those in your stash, let me know what you have and what would be the most likely one. Definitely wear either the bodice boned (make sure the stomacher is quite stiff) or wear stays underneath, which are high waisted too, I wonder if you could use earlier ones for that. Otherwise I can't think of anything else right now. I guess you just have to start on it. :-) Nicole ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 10:32:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PEWdqa024004 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PEXmcf027166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PEXlLN028079; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:33:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PEXhLN028031 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.165] (pm5-165.eos.net [205.133.149.165]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07510 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:33:41 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:29:06 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304250333.h3P3X5Fx011089@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: missing ribs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For information about Victorians removing ribs to get small waists, please see the archives. For new folks to the list, here's a summary: Put the idea in the same category as the $250 cookie recipe and the Deposed African Dictator money laundering scheme. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 11:30:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFUdqa024547 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFW0cf003517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFVxhT004643; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFVthT004511 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:31:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1DC14AD0184; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:18:52 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c30b40$3c66fa20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0ED8C395.03268E5B.0B5D5234@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 169 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:35:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that someone has already suggested Dhama as a resource;even though the fiber is not all silk, it has a nice hand and dyes super well. At about $7 per, not a bad deal..and you'd be able to wear your gown while you beat the bushes. One piece I got from them even had a pattern in it. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 169 > It would be nice indeed to have custom-woven fabric...but at $107 per SAMPLE, I'm afraid it's not for me. What I really want is 2 yards of custom-woven cotton or silk brocade I can't find anything I like that's "period" and matches (i.e. isn't green or red) the rest of my gown for an Elizabethan forepart! > > Christine > > In a message dated 4/24/2003 9:42:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > > > WOW!!!! The fabric is gorgeous. But am I the only one who thinks the > > patterns shown on their site are ugly? They do weave to your design, though! > > Wouldn't that be wonderful, to have a custom pattern made? > > Sigh. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 11:32:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFWBqa024551 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:32:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFUpcf003351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:30:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFUnhT003761; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe22.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFUlhT003676 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:30:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:30:41 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe22.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:30:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:29:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2003 15:30:41.0824 (UTC) FILETIME=[A194E200:01C30B3F] Subject: [h-cost] Baby measurements X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, One of my friends is going to have a baby soon and we're going to make him some SCA-wearable things. I have a pattern, but it's 2-4 years. I'm aiming more at a 6-12 months size. Since the patterns I have are tunics, there will be no problem in resizing them. But I don't have a baby myself, and I don't have a close friend who has a baby this age. I need help figuring out measurements. So, those of you who have baby clothes around 6-12 months size, could you give me measurements for a fairly loose-fitting tunic-like garment? I need shoulder width from seam to seam (like a T-tunic), arm length, around the belly width (width of the garment, not actual measurements of the baby), and shoulder to knee length. Also, we're going to make some bloomers to go with it, so I also need waist measurement of a pair of bloomers and length from waist to ankle. It would be very helpful! Thanks! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 11:41:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFfGqa024573 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:41:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFgZcf004482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFgYhT011468; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFgUhT011371 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A4573FE017C; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:29:27 -0400 Message-ID: <003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:45:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO for my collection of garments between 1870-90, 22" is a norm. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tania Gruning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 6:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets > > I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. > > Tania > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 11:48:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFmCqa024607 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:48:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFnUcf005164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFnThT015748; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe69.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFnQhT015670 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:49:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:49:20 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe69.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:49:20 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424234322.81867.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corsets & fashion Vs common sense Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:43:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2003 15:49:20.0682 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C7910A0:01C30B42] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well it does say that her uncorseted measurement is 20". So it's not THAT terrible, she already has a very small waist. What I can't figure out is how that can be her real measurements. I'm the same height and weight as her, and I'm skinny, but my own uncorseted waist measurement is more like a 26". (My ex could put his hands around me, I was a bit skinnier than and he had big hands - he had to squeeze me a little, but he could touch the tips of his fingers) But I admit it's so tight it looks scary :-) To each its own, I guess :-) Some people probably think it's way cool :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lil Sorepaws" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 7:43 PM Subject: [h-cost] Corsets & fashion Vs common sense > Hi Folks, after following the link below: > > http://www.staylace.com/pinups/spook/spook11.jpg > > I just about lost my dinner. No offense to anyone who likes the wasp > waist look (hey, I have a couple of corsets myself tho its near impossible > to self lace ;) but this girl's waist is the size of my BICEP!!!!!!!! My _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 11:54:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFs8qa024618 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFjPcf004748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFjPhT013185; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PFjLhT013089 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-111-13.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.111.13]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACH19327; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:45:08 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ee01c30b42$17cd8d80$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> <003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:48:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >for my collection of garments between 1870-90, 22" is a norm. Surviving garments may not be representative of the living population as has been discussed before :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 12:21:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PGL9qa024700 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:21:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PGLQcf008646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PGLOA4007500; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PGLJA4007350 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD7016130184; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:08:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c30b47$23157c20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com><003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> <00ee01c30b42$17cd8d80$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:24:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is right; I did say 'of my collection'.None of these pieces has been altered, and they came from several families, not all from this geographical area. The styles are mixed so I can't even tag them as to the age of the probable wearer. There is also the issue of these garments being left behind while the matching skirts probably were recycled for size change or style versatility that would have been dated by the remaining bodice. I do note a trend toward 24-27" for garments 1890-1900. Again, in the pieces that have become my collection. Many of these have been given to me by family members variously, as well a flea-auction finds. Perhaps, it is possible to suggest that the earlier sizes (21-22) might indicate an 'ideal' size that was reachable for a segment of the population who wanted to be fashionable. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets > >for my collection of garments between 1870-90, 22" is a norm. > > Surviving garments may not be representative of the living population as has > been discussed before :) > > Mel > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:04:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PH49qa025143 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:04:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PH5Kcf013476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PH5I5a007538; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:05:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PH5D5a007489 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.174] (pm5-174.eos.net [205.133.149.174]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01431 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:05:09 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:00:30 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304251532.h3PFWIhU004862@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Remember, in "Little House" Ma's waist was tiny BEFORE she got married, had children, and went off to the prairie to work! And Pa had big hands. I, too, would argue with Bjarne about suffering a little -- but then, we are all different in the sort of comfort we expect. I know people who find it very difficult to wear pantyhose and off-the-rack dresses, because they aren't comfortable in anything but jeans and t-shirts. So if you are not used to more fitting clothes, you may feel that you "suffer" in a corset while other people feel quite comfortable. I think a good starting place would be two inches smaller than normal at your waist. Try wearing it around for a while and see if you can comfortably corset smaller (this really depends on your body shape, IMHO). If so, try that -- but don't go too tight or you'll be unhealthy. If not, two inches is still accurate. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:19:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHJjqa025623 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:19:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHKxcf015074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHKw5a019361; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHKr5a019274 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:20:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a46.directcon.net [207.215.72.46]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3PHMxf04139; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:22:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030425102315.00af47b0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:23:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume , "Historical Costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets In-Reply-To: <00cf01c30b14$6e6cc760$8acdadcb@michaela> References: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> <5.1.0.14.0.20030424152332.02c5ee90@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:21 PM 04/25/2003 +1200, michaela wrote: >> Also, do you remember from Little House on the Prairie that Pa could put >> both hands around Ma's waist? I was always told that this was a desirable >> quality in women of that time. > Yes, but that was when they were first married. Unlike today, it was considered a fine thing for a very young woman to have a slender waist, but after she married and have children she was allowed to have a more realistic, womanly rather than girlish, figure. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:40:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHesqa026569 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:40:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHgDcf017252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHgB5a005287; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3PHg75a005181 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWnLofFwJnCTznlaoRDBsIB2PRPvVern+4A==">; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:41:59 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWMMQYUA; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:41:59 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:35:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: corsets Message-ID: <20030425.133508.-75337.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-13,19-21 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think Gail has made some good points. This is out of my period, but I have recently made a corset (Thanks, Margo) to wear with Tudor garb. I was warned that it would be uncomfortable, and told I would probably pass out if I tried to wear it all day. Hogwash! I have a 35 inch waist and made the corset so it could go down to 32 inches. I don't really pull it that tight though so probably just lose about two inches. I wore the garb from ten in the morning until 9 at night one day and spent most of it walking around on cement or asphalt paving. By the time the day was over my legs and feet were killing me but my back (which is weak due to past injuries) felt just fine. I didn't have the waistline of Mary Queen of Scots (whom I was portraying) but it did look just fine and I found the darned corset more comfortable than a bra! It is just a lot more difficult to get in and out of. I should think that a reasonable corset for Victorian period should not be uncomfortable. They were not all tiny little people. Look at some old photos and you will find some really normal looking ladies with great posture. Unless you want to look like a stage star, you should be able to come up with something that is quite appropriate to the period without putting yourself in the hospital. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:46:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHk6qa026591 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHlGcf017898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHlE5a009641; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:47:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHl75a009428 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-126-3.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.3]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACH29768; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:46:57 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <016201c30b53$1c9936a0$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com><003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><00ee01c30b42$17cd8d80$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> <000f01c30b47$23157c20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:50:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >That is right; I did say 'of my collection'.None of these pieces has been altered, When you say altered you mean show signs of altering ? I would expect few signs of alteration from say larger garments cut down, where one would expect the "bad" pieces to be cut out for instance don't you think ? >There is also the issue of these garments being left behind These are which garemts then sorry I might have missed it I'm tireer than I think judging by my poor tying :) (just back to England from CosCon) >Perhaps, it is possible to suggest that the earlier sizes (21-22) might indicate an 'ideal' size that was reachable for a segment of the population who wanted to be fashionable. My personal feeling is 21-22 in clothing indicates a minimum size after which there is nobody small enough to cut them down to :) What about other measurments eg bust , shoulders or hips (ie uncorseted areas). If that was disproportionate it would indicate the waist as corseted rather than natural but if in line we can assume I think a generally small person. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:48:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHm4qa026599 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:48:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHnMcf018129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHnL5a011179; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHnI5a011134 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-126-3.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.3]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACH29983; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:49:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <016f01c30b53$6f208860$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS><5.1.0.14.0.20030424152332.02c5ee90@127.0.0.1> <3.0.6.32.20030425102315.00af47b0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:52:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Yes, but that was when they were first married. Unlike today, it was considered a fine thing for a very young woman to have a slender waist, but after she married and have children she was allowed to have a more realistic, womanly rather than girlish, figure. Hi Margo , hope you are home safe & sound Sadly like most people my waist was considerably smaller B4 kids As a matter of interest so were my hips which enlarged 4-6 uinches after the first birth even whemn my waist went skinny again after traumatic events which got me to my lowest ever adult weight. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:53:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHrTqa026611 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:53:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHsgcf018645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHsd5a014841; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHsb5a014801 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDW00I95V2ZZF@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:35:46 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Baby measurements In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425102454.02c6ae50@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/25/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:29 AM 4/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: >So, those of you who have baby clothes around 6-12 months size, could you >give me measurements for a fairly loose-fitting tunic-like garment? I need >shoulder width from seam to seam (like a T-tunic), arm length, around the >belly width (width of the garment, not actual measurements of the baby), and >shoulder to knee length. >Also, we're going to make some bloomers to go with it, so I also need waist >measurement of a pair of bloomers and length from waist to ankle. >It would be very helpful! I have a nine month old that I am currently working on a chemise and dress for him... even tho I will have to explain to many a person that this is a cute little boy, he gets to wear a dress this weekend. Anyway... here are my measurements taken from one of his 12 month sleepers and 6/9 month pants (for the bloomers part). Trying to take measurements of a squirming little boy isn't fun. Shoulder width: 11" shoulder tip to shoulder tip Arm length (neck to wrist): 13" Around the belly/chest width: 24" Shoulder to knee length: 20.5" waist from pants: 16" contracted by elastic, 24" stretched. length from waist to ankle: 14.5" One other measurement I did take from my baby neck 12" I would also suggest making it bigger length wise, and adding in a deep hem. You could also add in extra at the seams to take out as the baby grows. I hope that helps you. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:53:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHrkqa026615 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:53:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHt9cf018703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHt9sd015243; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHsb5c014801 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDW00I95V2ZZF@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:39:19 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets In-reply-to: <00cf01c30b14$6e6cc760$8acdadcb@michaela> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425103803.02c713a8@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/25/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> <5.1.0.14.0.20030424152332.02c5ee90@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:21 PM 4/25/2003 +1200, you wrote: >and other problems not worth the > > smaller size. > >I'm going to discuss the biggest problem I had and it involved the digestive >tract so turn away now if you do not wish to read... That was the "other problems" I had mentioned. I didn't want to become too ... graphic. :-) Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 13:54:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHs1qa026619 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:54:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHtQcf018744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHtQsd015476; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PHsb5e014801 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:54:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDW00I95V2ZZF@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:47:16 -0700 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: <20030425041211.24228.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425104040.02c48148@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/25/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304250333.h3P3X5G0011089@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: a Question on Buttons & Jewelry X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:12 PM 4/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Would an SCA (probably not for the rhinestoney things ;) event or a con be >a good place to get a table and sell them off? I have never been a >merchant (and hate the whole haggle/bargain thing) and don't know if its >worth the time and effort. I've had some REALLY bad experiences with >consignments to a "store" so I'd rather not go that route ... Any >suggestions? I have *some* photos but they are pretty much blurry ... > >http://www.dark-goddess.com/ebabe/hoard/ I want to buy some of your hoard, if you are getting rid of them. Lots of pretties... Seriously, try an event. If you are not comfortable with the actual sales, find a merchant at an event that is willing to do this for you for a commission. I have a lady friend at my local small faires that sells such things all the time under her business name of "The Queen's Favor", and she makes decent money at it. And if you go the e-bay route, let us know so we can go into a bidding frenzy over them. As for photo taking, try using the "micro" setting on the camera if it has one. It is the tulip flower image on many cameras, even digitals. It helps get clear images of small upclose shots. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 14:35:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIZ5qa026823 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:35:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIYPcf022931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:34:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIYNsd015896; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:34:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIYLsd015827 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1d1.8277989 (26116) for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:34:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d1.8277989.2bdad9a3@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:34:11 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Cavalier Information... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/25/2003 9:54:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > Bust darts??? And y'all complained about my 1660s comments! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 14:41:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIfrqa026928 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:41:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIh9cf023689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:43:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIh8sd021388; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f72.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIh5sd021316 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:43:00 -0700 Received: from 66.237.9.246 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:43:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.246] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:43:00 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2003 18:43:00.0460 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F2502C0:01C30B5A] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very true. Also, isn't is true that women often married earlier then is the norm today? This would have a huge effect on the build of women who were married and having children in their mid teens. At 16, I was a lot thinner then I am now and could certainly have fit into a corset considerably smaller then I can now. I'm sure this is the case for most of us. I am 27 and have not had any children (yet). I know that this really can change your build substantially. You know, this really ties into the thread about research mistakes... It's difficult to determine, historically, what is the norm and what is the exception. Very interesting... :) jessica At 10:21 PM 04/25/2003 +1200, michaela wrote: >>Also, do you remember from Little House on the Prairie that Pa could put >>both hands around Ma's waist? I was always told that this was a desirable >>Quality in women of that time. > Yes, but that was when they were first married. Unlike today, it was considered a fine thing for a very young woman to have a slender waist, but after she married and have children she was allowed to have a more realistic, womanly rather than girlish, figure. Margo _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 14:59:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PIxlqa027136 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:59:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJ0vcf025323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJ0umx003109; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:00:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJ0omx003000 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:00:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2D36A5016C; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:47:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c30b5d$6c216da0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com><003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><00ee01c30b42$17cd8d80$0d6f4ed5@pavilion><000f01c30b47$23157c20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> <016201c30b53$1c9936a0$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:03:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel, my guess that the garments have not been altered as you suggest they might have, is based on the fact that the fabric and lining is 'new' condition. Some of them seem to have only had one wearing. These most probably were not 'made overs'. I have lots of other stuff that started out 'life' in some other form so that I have something to base this theory on. The garments that I am referring to are those of the 'average 22" waists'. The other measurements (ie. bust, hips, and so forth) are about 31-33" /34-35"on average. Thus my feeling that they were for genuinely small ...mostly adult...people. Adult because of the over all style of the garment. Most are professionally finished with nice scalloped seams that are properly bound and boned...some with baleen, as you would expect of this period. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets > >That is right; I did say 'of my collection'.None of these pieces has been > altered, > > When you say altered you mean show signs of altering ? > > I would expect few signs of alteration from say larger garments cut down, > where one would expect the "bad" pieces to be cut out for instance don't you > think ? > > >There is also the issue of these garments being left behind > > These are which garemts then sorry I might have missed it I'm tireer than I > think judging by my poor tying :) (just back to England from CosCon) > > >Perhaps, it is possible to suggest that the earlier sizes (21-22) might > indicate an 'ideal' size that was reachable for a segment of the population > who wanted to be fashionable. > > My personal feeling is 21-22 in clothing indicates a minimum size after > which there is nobody small enough to cut them down to :) > > What about other measurments eg bust , shoulders or hips (ie uncorseted > areas). If that was disproportionate it would indicate the waist as corseted > rather than natural but if in line we can assume I think a generally small > person. > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 15:40:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJeaqa027339 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:40:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJfecf029572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:41:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJfcmx005040; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJfQmx004835 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-194.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.194]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACH37079; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:41:17 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <01ef01c30b63$15a7eb60$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com><003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><00ee01c30b42$17cd8d80$0d6f4ed5@pavilion><000f01c30b47$23157c20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><016201c30b53$1c9936a0$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> <001101c30b5d$6c216da0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:44:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Mel, my guess that the garments have not been altered as you suggest they might have, is based on the fact that the fabric and lining is 'new' condition. Thanks for clarifying that >The garments that I am referring to are those of the 'average 22" waists'. The other measurements (ie. bust, hips, and so forth) are about 31-33" /34-35"on average. Thus my feeling that they were for genuinely small OK that sounds like a fairly normal waist size for that bust size in my experiance then and does not seem to support excessive corsetry. At a 36 inch bust it used to be common to have a 24 inch waist (not sure if this still holds ?) so a 31-33 inch bust & 22 inch waist would I feel be slightly corseted rather than extreme As I said before human remains tend to be smaller then(particularly urban European), so I think these seem to be for small (for our times) physically slim people as you say. Are these US garments by the way ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 15:49:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJnAqa027434 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:49:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJoRcf000791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJoQmx011822; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJoNmx011783 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-96-194.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.96.194]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACH37654; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:50:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <021701c30b64$596f3000$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:53:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Taschen fashion book Recommendation. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whilst looking for books on Elizabethan costume I picked this up at out local remaindered outlet http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/books/fashion/all/facts/01839.htm LOADS of extant garment examples, recommended for anyone who likes those periods Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 15:58:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJwfqa027675 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJxscf001831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJxr0D018816; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:59:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe41.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PJxo0D018710 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:59:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:59:45 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe41.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:59:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021701c30b64$596f3000$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Taschen fashion book Recommendation. Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:58:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2003 19:59:45.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[37E25C90:01C30B65] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, yeah. It starts around what -- 1750? No Elizabethan stuff in there... But it's *amazing*. It contains most (if not all) of what is found in Revolution in Fashion. It's from the Kyoto Costume Institute. It's well, well worth the investment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 3:53 PM Subject: [h-cost] Taschen fashion book Recommendation. > Whilst looking for books on Elizabethan costume I picked this up at out > local remaindered outlet > http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/books/fashion/all/facts/01839.htm > > LOADS of extant garment examples, recommended for anyone who likes those > periods > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 16:02:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PK2Xqa027754 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:02:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PK3dcf002412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PK3d0D021944; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca.uwaterloo.ca (sca.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.56.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PK3Z0D021895 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:03:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca.uwaterloo.ca (sca.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PK1Kqa027690 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:01:20 -0400 Received: (from fashion@localhost) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h3PK1Kko027689 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:01:20 -0400 From: fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca Message-Id: <200304252001.h3PK1Kko027689@sca.uwaterloo.ca> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:01:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] H-Costume archive moved - errr fixed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those of you using my h-costume search engine will have noticed that it's been broken for about 2 weeks. I've recently upgraded it from it's 3+ year old Linux to something new; but lots of things changed. As a result I've had to move the search engine. If you get to it from the following them all is well: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion Or you can use the shortcut to the new search engine: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion For the eternally curious. I'm now the father of twins. There really isn't time for costuming. Hmm, there isn't time for much of anything; not even sleep. Relatives and in-laws that are willing to move in can be a god send. Get some before you get twins!! - Eric _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 16:40:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKeNqa027891 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:40:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKficf006374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKfh0D018741; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKfe0D018664 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA751F64015A; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:28:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c30b6b$82995940$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com><003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><00ee01c30b42$17cd8d80$0d6f4ed5@pavilion><000f01c30b47$23157c20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><016201c30b53$1c9936a0$0d6f4ed5@pavilion><001101c30b5d$6c216da0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <01ef01c30b63$15a7eb60$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:44:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I started doing theater costuming in 1965. At that time I could still fit 1950's clothing with little alteration...36"bust would usually be followed by 24-5" waist and 35-6 hips. Today, the college kids I work with are average(say the Directors) and their busts run about 38-40" and 'small' waists are usually about 30-32". Those with 36" busts will be 27-9". In 1965 I was usually able to find shoes for the #7 1/2 to 8 1/2 foot with 9's being large. At this point, #9 is average and I even get asked for #11's on a regular basis. Great fun when the shoe has to be a character shoe. And don,t even suggest that they ought/need to be corseted! I think the real vision of the American Girl is a whole lot different in the 21st century , fashion models aside. For sure, sports and even music (singing or wood-wind players will notice a big difference in their chests and waists...if they are using their diaphrames, correctly) . Most of the costume pieces we have been discussing are US. However, there is a handful that are northern European. I have a couple of "Paquin" pieces including a corset (in poor condition, I admit, but it still bears a very nice lable) As close as I can figure, the corset size was /is approximately 27"waist.The date when it was purchased was about 1898 from family records of a trip to Paris. Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets > >Mel, my guess that the garments have not been altered as you suggest they > might have, is based on the fact that the fabric and lining is 'new' > condition. > > Thanks for clarifying that > > >The garments that I am referring to are those of the 'average 22" waists'. > The other measurements (ie. bust, hips, and so forth) are about 31-33" > /34-35"on average. Thus my feeling that they were for genuinely small > > OK that sounds like a fairly normal waist size for that bust size in my > experiance then and does not seem to support excessive corsetry. > > At a 36 inch bust it used to be common to have a 24 inch waist (not sure if > this still holds ?) so a 31-33 inch bust & 22 inch waist would I feel be > slightly corseted rather than extreme > > As I said before human remains tend to be smaller then(particularly urban > European), so I think these seem to be for small (for our times) physically > slim people as you say. > > Are these US garments by the way ? > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 16:48:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKm0qa027908 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:48:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKnDcf007156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKnB0D023685; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKn90D023582 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:49:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.54.185.111]) by mtaout09.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDX00ETS3399B@mtaout09.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:47:43 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3EA99EEF.5030502@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 References: <200304251800.h3PI0rse019254@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re:baby-garb X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only thing I can add to what Kimiko said was that it's not a bad idea to put a tuck in the shoulder, and a couple somewhere along the sleeve, to allow for growth. I made my son a tunic when he was 2 that was pretty much as long as it should be for that age, when belted up just a tad. He wore it through when he was 5 1/2... though the last time he wore it it was getting just a tad short to be used as a shirt over leggings. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 16:59:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PKxSqa027926 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:59:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL0mcf008334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL0kBu002173; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL0hBu002133 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 199AJG-0005fT-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:00:43 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:49:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance Footnotes References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know a couple of people from the group. I don't have their email, but I've put out a shout on another list for them to get in touch. Jean Kitsune242@aol.com wrote >Is there a member of this list that belongs to the following url? > >http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/index3.html > >Thanks, >Kit > >If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - >Kenneth Cole >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 17:02:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL2bqa027946 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:02:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL43cf008664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL41Bu004643; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL0hBu002132 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 199AJG-0005fR-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:00:43 +0100 Message-ID: <9D4JGzB2rWq+IwOO@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:05:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030423133826.00a99828@pop.sonic.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also the historical equivalent, that for a lot of history copying previous writers/artists was considered good form, so you can follow a picture through several centuries and it doesn't necessarily represent clothes current at the time the book was made. And stylistic fashions in art and sculpture, particularly in treatment of drapery, so that there seems to be a dramatic change in clothing which is actually just a change in ways of depicting it. All this before naturalistic art became the norm. Jean Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote >True. >Also, assuming that because a lot of books say something, it has to be true. >You have to remember that a lot of writers just say what others said before, >trusting that their research was good. You lose a lot of the original >details that way, things get reinterpreted wrong or misquoted, or even maybe >the original author didn't interpret something the right way. > >Hmm, also the problem with book that reinterpret things, such as the Peacock >book of costume, in which all the costumes are redrawn, most in the wrong >silhouette and a lot I can't find any evidence for. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lavolta Press" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 4:49 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] class on researching mistakes > > >> Assuming that only one or two types of source are valid and only examining >> those, instead of all information available. >> >> Assuming all secondary sources are worthless. >> >> Assuming that because other people in your group say something is true, it >is. >> >> Assuming that because people outside your group say something is true, it >> must be false. >> >> Assuming that only designated "experts" should research and everyone else >> should simply accept what they say. >> >> Using research and its results as a tool for social competition. >> >> Assuming that what people wore in any given period can be boiled down to a >> short, strongly worded set of "facts" and that nothing beyond this is >valid. >> >> Assuming that an ultimate truth about the past can be always (or even >> usually!) be discerned. >> >> Fran >> >> >> >> At 11:32 PM 4/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: >> >I'm considering teaching a class at an uncoming event on research methods >> >and mistakes. I can handle the "how to do research" part just fine. >What >> >I'd like is suggestions of mistakes people commonly make in doing >> >research. What sorts of things would you like to see included in such a >class? >> >> Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >> http://www.lavoltapress.com >> Historic and Vintage Dance >> http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 17:04:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL4vqa027952 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:04:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL6Fcf008860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:06:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL6BBu006257; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PL5jBu005903 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:05:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-179.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.179]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACH42126; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:05:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <023f01c30b6e$dd3bd5a0$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021701c30b64$596f3000$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Taschen fashion book Recommendation. Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:08:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Oh, yeah. It starts around what -- 1750? No Elizabethan stuff in there... Sadly no :( >But it's *amazing*. It contains most (if not all) of what is found in Revolution in Fashion. It's from the Kyoto Costume Institute. It's well, well worth the investment. Yes & I got it cheap (slight gloat !) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 17:14:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PLEiqa027969 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:14:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PLFicf009824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PLFfBu013053; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PLFcBu013003 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-97-179.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.97.179]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACH42693; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:15:36 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <024001c30b70$424ea980$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com><003401c30b41$b7151da0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><00ee01c30b42$17cd8d80$0d6f4ed5@pavilion><000f01c30b47$23157c20$6b5183d1@rmitchellras><016201c30b53$1c9936a0$0d6f4ed5@pavilion><001101c30b5d$6c216da0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras><01ef01c30b63$15a7eb60$0d6f4ed5@pavilion> <000f01c30b6b$82995940$665183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:18:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >At that time I could still fit 1950's clothing with little alteration...36"bust would usually be followed by 24-5" waist and 35-6 hips. My Mum (curse her ;)) still can wear her 50 & 60 stuff :) >Today, the college kids I work with are average(say the Directors) and their busts run about 38-40" and 'small' waists are usually about 30-32". That is quite big, I'm not sure UK kids are quite as large as that would they be teenagers ? Post adolecents(sp?) ? > Those with 36" busts will be 27-9". I wonder then what effects the earlier tendancy to pubety has on body shape ? Excersise is in I know, but it was when I was a teenager, moree so than now (here) I think > In 1965 I was usually able to find shoes for the #7 1/2 to 8 1/2 foot with 9's being large. At this point, #9 is average and I even get asked for #11's on a regular basis. Average shoe size her used to be UK 4 I don't know any women except my Mum & Sister whjo are that now, 5-6 (8-8.5 US) is the norm and much bigger not that unusual 8UK are stocked regularly >For sure, sports and even music (singing or wood-wind players will notice a big difference in their chests and waists...if they are using their diaphrames, correctly) . But Victorian women sang, at parties and all sorts of social events. Sports is another matter, but many rode, some did more vigerous sports but few to the extent that is common now. I don't know much about bodies from the US, I'd guess Urban dwellers were small too, maybe some rural types were bigger if the farming was good & they had been at it a while, but it is way out of my area :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 19:27:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNRGqa028743 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNSccf022819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:28:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNSVF8005300; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNSRF8005223 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:28:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDX005LEAHFZZ@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:27:13 -0500 From: Allison In-reply-to: <200304251800.h3PI0rse019254@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Jewelry hoard X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I, too, found several things I'd like to buy. If you don't want to go to the trouble of putting them all on ebay, perhaps there are enough of us who want to buy them so you can make back some of your investment AND know they went to good homes. ;-) And perhaps you'd see them again on the garments of their new families... Would you be willing to list some prices for us on this list? Or maybe a private group email to those who have inquired so as not to clog up the list? Thanks! Allison P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 19:53:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNruqa028865 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:53:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNt7cf024797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNt7nn018632; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3PNt5nn018608 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAFA862001E; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:55:38 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAD7490236; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:55:03 -0500 Message-ID: <014f01c30b85$df1420a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:53:28 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sharon put an article on her website written in 1919 by a doctor. It is called Form and Deformity: The Corset http://www.grannyscloset.net/deform.htm Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 20:17:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0Heqa028893 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:17:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0Ivcf026725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0Iunn000987; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0Isnn000971 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-112.gti.net [208.216.115.112]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id C2C70354AF for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EA9D070.7A797734@gti.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:18:56 -0400 From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets References: <014f01c30b85$df1420a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, There is also some rather graphic information on corset deformity in the book "Light of the Home". I'd studied Victorian fashion / culture for almost 12 years, & never heard of the *pessiary* until reading about it in this book & then was thoroughly grossed out when I learned what it was. A pessiary was a small, ladel-like metal or wood device used to literally hold a womans' insides inside her, after tight-lacing caused her uterus to actually start uh, *seeping* out of her. It makes sense- I mean, internal organs can only be smushed together for so long until they begin start popping outta you. Icky huh?!! ~Lisa > Sharon put an article on her website written in 1919 by a doctor. It is > called Form and Deformity: The Corset > http://www.grannyscloset.net/deform.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 20:58:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0wEqa029005 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:58:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0xecf029451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0xc0B018860; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q0xa0B018821 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.37.37b27162 (4560) for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:59:29 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <37.37b27162.2bdb33f1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:59:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/25/2003 7:21:24 PM Central Standard Time, martyr@gti.net writes: > Penny, > There is also some rather graphic information on corset deformity in the > book "Light of the > Home". I'd studied Victorian fashion / culture for almost 12 years, > &never heard of the *pessiary* until reading about it in this book &then > was thoroughly > grossed out when I learned what it was Great Googaly-Moogaly! I just did a Google on pessiary and found a few message boards talking about how great they when tight-lacing, etc. Some of them come with "pleasure knobs" and urethra tubes...and special holes for your period. Me, personally, would opt to not do something that might cause your womb to flop out. Sarra Wryght http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 21:15:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1Fdqa029037 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:15:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1H6cf000703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:17:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1H50B027570; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop017.verizon.net (pop017pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1H30B027491 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.134]) by pop017.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030426011658.FPCA27254.pop017.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:16:58 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c30b94$d8e111c0$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <014f01c30b85$df1420a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3EA9D070.7A797734@gti.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:40:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop017.verizon.net from [141.151.116.134] at Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:16:58 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3Q1Fdqa029037 Status: RO Lisa, I ad heard of a pessiary, probably only because I'm a nurse and they are used by ob/gyn's for women with bladder and uterine prolapse...have NEVER heard of them being used in this vein! >Me, personally, would opt to not do something that might cause your womb to flop out. I'm with you, Sara! Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 21:28:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1S6qa029052 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:28:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1TXcf001533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1TW0B004876; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3Q1TT0B004857 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 829 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2003 02:11:41 -0000 Received: from 66-44-107-212.s1482.apx2.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.107.212) by shada.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2003 02:11:41 -0000 Message-ID: <3EA9D596.2040905@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:40:54 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Baby measurements References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > Hi, > One of my friends is going to have a baby soon and we're going to make him > some SCA-wearable things. I have a pattern, but it's 2-4 years. I'm aiming > more at a 6-12 months size. I realize that what you're looking for is much older than what I'm going to mention, but what I saw was just so cute it might bear keeping in mind for earlier on. When one of our local Landsknecht ladies had a baby, she brought him out when he was a couple of months old - dressed in one of daddy's old sleeves! It gave a lovely neck ruff and was long enough to cover the baby and look like a "gown" (I don't remember if they just kept him like that or if they cut holes for his arms). It was really cute. Obvious won't work for 6-12 month old, but if your friend wants to bring the baby out earlier it's a thought. -Judy Mitchell (just wanted to share) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Apr 25 21:29:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1Toqa029059 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:29:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1VIcf001676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:31:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1VG0B005623; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q1VD0B005607 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.113] (pm4-113.eos.net [205.133.149.113]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28319 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:31:11 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:26:31 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304251800.h3PI0rse019254@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For any who might be interested, I was just sent the URL for a movie opening this fall about St. Therese (the "Little Flower"). It's supposed to be an inspirational family movie. There's not much on the site but the flash version does have stills from the film, which shows the costuming. It looks pretty good, although I did notice that St. Therese had a lot of makeup on when she was wearing her habit! For those unfamiliar with the story, St. Therese grew up in Liseaux, the youngest of a bunch of daughters in a very devout Catholic family (they all became nuns, so you can see how devout they were). She was sickly, TB I think, and she petitioned to be allowed into a convent (Carmelite, maybe?) early. She died in her early 20s, but her autobiography "The Story of a Soul" is one of the most widely-read religious works in the world. The movie seems to tell the story of her life, so it should have lots of 19th-century clothes. The URL: www.theresemovie.com Did anyone see the Easter movie on St. Francis on the Hallmark Channel? I saw an ad and checked out the website, but I don't have cable. The costumes looked horrendous. I just can't stand bad costumes in a movie! I don't mind artistic license, but there's no excuse for just plain BAD costumes. It's not as if no one knows what people wore back then! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 00:37:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q4bXqa029387 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q4cvcf013058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:38:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q4ctSq021173; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q4cpSq021138 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:38:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KatHouse (ip90.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.90]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91FD6A586 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:38:49 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:38:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Message-ID: <3EA9AAD8.5672.37106F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <014f01c30b85$df1420a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sharon put an article on her website written in 1919 by a doctor. It > is called Form and Deformity: The Corset > http://www.grannyscloset.net/deform.htm This is great. I used to have an old medical book from about that time which said basically the same thing. It showed autopsy views of what they looked like inside. (Good quality redrawings in comparison to the rather crude drawings that went with the 1919 article. They almost looked like photographs if you didn't know about the technology available at the time.) That book also talked about the difference in the way a woman breathes and the way a man breathes. (One was called "bucket handle breathing" but I don't recall the other.) In medical school we learned that it was no longer felt to be because of male/female anatomy differences but was due to the shallower breaths that women wearing corsets (who were the ones the doctors studied at the time) did. This is opposed to breathing from the diaphragm the way most of us breathe when not constricted or using bad posture. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 10:03:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QE3bqa032048 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QE52cf010423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QE4wUV003799; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:04:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41110.mail.yahoo.com (web41110.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.26]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3QE4tUV003744 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030426140450.53608.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.59.105.57] by web41110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:04:50 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:04:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Stacey Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <3EA9AAD8.5672.37106F@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All this talk about falling uteri makes me wonder if it was the tightlacing, or the atrophy of the muscle caused by the tightlacing. I know some contemporary elderly women (my aunt-in-law included) who never exercised will drop theirs. --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > Sharon put an article on her website written in > 1919 by a doctor. It > > is called Form and Deformity: The Corset > > http://www.grannyscloset.net/deform.htm > > This is great. I used to have an old medical book > from about that > time which said basically the same thing. It showed > autopsy views of > what they looked like inside. (Good quality > redrawings in comparison > to the rather crude drawings that went with the 1919 > article. They > almost looked like photographs if you didn't know > about the > technology available at the time.) > > That book also talked about the difference in the > way a woman > breathes and the way a man breathes. (One was called > "bucket handle > breathing" but I don't recall the other.) In medical > school we > learned that it was no longer felt to be because of > male/female > anatomy differences but was due to the shallower > breaths that women > wearing corsets (who were the ones the doctors > studied at the time) > did. This is opposed to breathing from the diaphragm > the way most of > us breathe when not constricted or using bad > posture. > > Kat > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 10:28:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QESBqa032114 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:28:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QETfcf011751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:29:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QETeUV012532; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QETbUV012487 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDY00BB5G981E@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:29:26 -0500 From: Allison In-reply-to: <200304251800.h3PI0rse019254@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com, "Margo's Patterns List" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] SWF ISO new costuming pals... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, guys! Because I have so carefully organized my Costume Con notes I have, of course, misplaced - lost - tossed - my carefully made and saved list of contacts. Of course. So, Marie and Kay would you please email me? (I think I've got everyone else from the lists.) Thanks. Allison P. - wondering how long I can blame my faulty memory on my hysterectomy... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 11:06:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QF6Aqa032200 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QF7Ycf013918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QF7XBZ027133; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QF7VBZ027121 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB08D1C3883 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 7AD41E4B9; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:07:29 -0700 (PDT) From: prairielark To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume movies X-Originating-Ip: [65.194.90.132] Message-Id: <20030426150730.7AD41E4B9@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3QF7VBZ027121 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree wholeheartedly with Gail. But those with religious themes seem to concentrate more on the story and are notorious for BAD costuming. Have to relate this one: there is an "inspirational" video being passed out by one of the more evangelical modern churches --the one that sends out young folks to proselitize and try to inform others about the religion. I borrowed it because I am a student of social history, and I understood the film had in it certain interesting 19th c. social commentary, and that it covered a long timeline from the late 18th to the early 20th century. I also have some friends in this church, and I thought it would help me to understand their motivations a bit better. But I digress. The clothing was so bad it detracted from my being able to concentrate on the video. Most of the women were in the expected stereotypical late 19th c. prairie dresses, even in the 1820s. That was almost to be expected, However, in one scenario, set in the early 18! 40s, one of the central characters is moving west and is constantly being shot in a slat bonnet that is worn UPSIDE DOWN! It was really provoking and even tho' the actress was actually very good, I could not take her seriously because of that stupid bonnet... she looked like an Edwardian baby doll in a pram because the part that is supposed to fall down behind her back was on top of her head and stuck out in a very crazy fashion. She reminded me of Amelia Bedelia. The men's clothing was even worse --they often put them in flannel plaid shirts, and even in the late 18th c. shots the men were wearing modern corduroy jeans that zipped! Aaggh! I wish people would realize that many of us are more savvy than perhaps audiences were in the past, and that it really detracts from what otherwise may be an interesting piece if the clothing is that bad. It was obvious that whoever did the costuming either had done absolutely no research, or it just was not a priority to the direct! or to have the clothing done right. But it is very confusing ! to try t o follow a difficult storyline that covers over 100 years, if you can't tell from looking at the characters even what century they are supposed to be in. Phoebe --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > >For any who might be interested, I was just sent the URL for a movie opening >this fall about St. Therese (the "Little Flower"). It's supposed to be an >inspirational family movie. There's not much on the site but the flash >version does have stills from the film, which shows the costuming. It looks >pretty good, although I did notice that St. Therese had a lot of makeup on >when she was wearing her habit! > >For those unfamiliar with the story, St. Therese grew up in Liseaux, the >youngest of a bunch of daughters in a very devout Catholic family (they all >became nuns, so you can see how devout they were). She was sickly, TB I >think, and she petitioned to be allowed into a convent (Carmelite, maybe?) >early. She died in her early 20s, but her autobiography "The Story of a >Soul" is one of the most widely-read religious works in the world. The movie >seems to tell the story of her life, so it should have lots of 19th-century >clothes. The URL: > >www.theresemovie.com > >Did anyone see the Easter movie on St. Francis on the Hallmark Channel? I >saw an ad and checked out the website, but I don't have cable. The costumes >looked horrendous. I just can't stand bad costumes in a movie! I don't mind >artistic license, but there's no excuse for just plain BAD costumes. It's >not as if no one knows what people wore back then! > >Gail Finke > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 11:13:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QFDmqa032219 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QFFBcf014646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QFFABZ000769; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3QFF7BZ000718 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvAD0CPyh1/ia93z5MwSocs=">; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:14:05 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWPXNVEZ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:14:05 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:46:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Message-ID: <20030426.081306.2020.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-10,13-14,18-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That book also talked about the difference in the way a woman > breathes and the way a man breathes. (One was called "bucket handle > breathing" but I don't recall the other.) In medical school we > learned that it was no longer felt to be because of male/female > anatomy differences but was due to the shallower breaths that women > wearing corsets (who were the ones the doctors studied at the time) > did. This is opposed to breathing from the diaphragm the way most of > us breathe when not constricted or using bad posture. > > Kat If you wear corsetry that doesn't bind your floating ribs you can breathe like a normal person. Also, a lot of people seem to lace their corsetry too tight. nasty. :/ A friend made me a barrel corset. It's main mission in life is to hold a very heavy italian ren gown up and absorb the weight, but also to be one I can sing in. It's pretty comfortable and I can inhale down to my toes in it. It lets your lungs and muscles do what they were designed to do. Arlys ("Mikes? We don't need no stinkin' mikes!") ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 12:49:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QGn3qa032652 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:49:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QGoMcf021032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QGoLHi012706; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QGoIHi012692 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp10.directcon.net [209.79.209.10] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3QGqTf04640; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:52:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030426095243.00efdd30@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:52:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets In-Reply-To: <20030426140450.53608.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3EA9AAD8.5672.37106F@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:04 AM 04/26/2003 -0700, Stacey wrote: >All this talk about falling uteri makes me wonder if >it was the tightlacing, or the atrophy of the muscle >caused by the tightlacing. I know some contemporary >elderly women (my aunt-in-law included) who never >exercised will drop theirs. > It was also caused by trauma to the pelvic muscles during a difficult childbirth. It's not a common problem in young women anymore now that they do C-sections routinely for such births. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 13:10:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QHASqa032703 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 13:10:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QHBscf022331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QHBrFl021519; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:11:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QHBoFl021497 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88ECC7AAEA for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 61705-05 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-102-246.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.102.246]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D577AAE4 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:11:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <37.37b27162.2bdb33f1@aol.com> Message-Id: <255FD476-780A-11D7-9643-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if anyone would know if more women suffered prolapsed uteruses then than now... Pessaries are still used today, and women still suffer from prolapse. On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 05:59 PM, LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/25/2003 7:21:24 PM Central Standard Time, > martyr@gti.net > writes: > >> Penny, >> There is also some rather graphic information on corset deformity in >> the >> book "Light of the >> Home". I'd studied Victorian fashion / culture for almost 12 years, >> &never heard of the *pessiary* until reading about it in this book >> &then >> was thoroughly >> grossed out when I learned what it was > > Great Googaly-Moogaly! > > I just did a Google on pessiary and found a few message boards talking > about > how great they when tight-lacing, etc. Some of them come with "pleasure > knobs" and urethra tubes...and special holes for your period. > > Me, personally, would opt to not do something that might cause your > womb to > flop out. > > Sarra Wryght > http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Apr 26 20:01:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R01sqa002314 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 20:01:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R03Dcf019374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R0355x011564; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R0335x011529 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.206.137.244] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 157449565 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 19:02:57 -0500 Message-ID: <3EAB1F00.50006@accessus.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 19:06:24 -0500 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] SWF ISO new costuming pals... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Allison wrote: > > >Allison P. - wondering how long I can blame my faulty memory on my >hysterectomy... > Now there's a trick I didn't try after mine! Actually, I didn't end up getting much slack (or help, for that matter) afterwards - more power to you if you are! Karen - who had all that unpleasantness done *many* years ago _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 00:21:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4LYqa002971 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:21:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4KVcf003485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4K8Je017168; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4K4Je017118 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.126]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HDZ0022CIPCGR@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:14:46 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets In-reply-to: <20030426.081306.2020.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030426211432.00af5f78@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/25/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:46 AM 4/26/2003 -0700, you wrote: >A friend made me a barrel corset. What is a barrel corset? Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 00:23:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4NCqa002975 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:23:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4OZcf003685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:24:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4OYJe018878; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:24:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f77.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4OVJe018839 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:21:36 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 04:21:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Patterns /Underthings for Tania (ALso a Questionon Buttons & Jewelry) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:21:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2003 04:21:36.0623 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E00D7F0:01C30C74] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My suggestion would be to put a piece of tissue over your flash >when taking close up shots of shiny stuff and you won't get the bounce >back that makes the piece look blurry. I think that's a brilliant idea!! > > I have been merchanting in SCA for about a year and have found it >rather fun. Most people don't make an issue of haggling and if you say >the price is firm they either take it or leave it. So give it a try and >see how it goes. It doesn't cost anything to try and you might find it >fun. > When I merchant I have a sign that says "If you wont haggle, I can't lower prices.". I appreciate people letting me know when they really want something but don't have "quite that much" to spend. Some of my items have very small haggle margins, but some of them can be had for a steal if you play the game with me. I would say that SCA merchants are some of the most helpful, informative, and fun loving people I've ever met. I only merchant once in a while, but I've always been next to others who were great to work beside. Don't be afraid to give it a try. Jen >Lalah >Never give up, Never surrender >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 00:32:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4WCqa003030 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:32:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4Xdcf004186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4XcJe022119; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f112.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.112]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R4XZJe022072 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:33:30 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 04:33:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:33:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2003 04:33:30.0222 (UTC) FILETIME=[275768E0:01C30C76] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tania, I finished the great purple corset and amazingly enough I can wear it. I'm usually a size16-18 these days, but made the corset a 14 because that is my goal size. I tried it on for kicks and if it's laced pretty tight, even with the 4-6" gap in the back, I can wear it for a while. I used the pattern with the bust/hip gussets but I can't remember the number. I plan to make one for real in the size 16 so I can get used to a corset before I have to start measuring for my 1894 walking gown outfit for the car show. I still haven't made up the one without the gussets yet, but I'll let you know how it does. Jennifer Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 03:46:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R7kNqa003767 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 03:46:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R7lccf014820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 01:47:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R7lY8i013930; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 01:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41002.mail.yahoo.com (web41002.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3R7lV8i013889 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 01:47:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030427074726.52508.qmail@web41002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:47:26 PDT Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:47:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Jennifer.I have decided that a 20 inch corset would be fitting. I am an intermediate seamstress and I've read the instructions on the patterns at farthinggales.com. The one with the hip and bust gusset seems to be a little out of my league right now but I want them both. I fully intend to make at least one from each pattern. If it turns out good and I like to make them, I might have a business :-)Tania Jennifer Sena wrote:Tania, I finished the great purple corset and amazingly enough I can wear it. I'm usually a size16-18 these days, but made the corset a 14 because that is my goal size. I tried it on for kicks and if it's laced pretty tight, even with the 4-6" gap in the back, I can wear it for a while. I used the pattern with the bust/hip gussets but I can't remember the number. I plan to make one for real in the size 16 so I can get used to a corset before I have to start measuring for my 1894 walking gown outfit for the car show. I still haven't made up the one without the gussets yet, but I'll let you know how it does. Jennifer Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 03:57:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R7v7qa003771 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 03:57:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R7wVcf015230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 01:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R7wVhC017121; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 01:58:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3R7wShC017105 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 01:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p25-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.212.25] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 199h3J-0002mN-00; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:58:26 +1200 Message-ID: <3EAB8D93.4080909@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:58:11 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets References: <255FD476-780A-11D7-9643-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> In-Reply-To: <255FD476-780A-11D7-9643-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I wonder if anyone would know if more women suffered prolapsed > uteruses then than now... > Pessaries are still used today, and women still suffer from prolapse. My suggestion was along those same lines. That the prevalence to have a prolapsed uterus was simply exaccerbated by tightlacing. My aunt had a prolapsed uterus and it's something women in my family should think about. We are also all hypermobile (which might be a contributing facter) which affects about 5% of the population. And there are varying degrees of this which probably affects even more women. Also a lot of the skeletons and bodies autosied were from women who by their social class probably never tightlaced in their life. It's not a simple equation of: woman + dead + victorian age + deformities = deformities caused by tightlacing. Just as the current diabetes rise in is caused by milk consumption. Milk consumption hasn't really gone up in the countiries where diabetes (type 2) is on the rise. And even if it was that's not the proof needed to show milk consumption is the cause. A much more sedentary lifestyle and prepared foods high in fats and sugars are the more likely culprit. So I would take these articles with a grain of salt as they are from a biased point of view anyway. michaela http://glittersweet.com (just trying out mozilla.....) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 10:32:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3REWfqa016583 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:32:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3REX8cf002477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 08:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3REX5uH020112; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 08:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3REX1uH020046 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 08:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.11f.210cdfbb (4529) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:32:50 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <11f.210cdfbb.2bdd4412@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:32:50 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Technically this isn't for a historical costume (it's for a fantasy costume instead, a LOTR costume), but since there are so many people here, I decided to ask. I'm looking for pre-quilted velvet, specifically in a dark/chocolate brown shade. I've been told that it's possible to find, but in two days of online searching, I've had no luck (and the local fabric store? Not only is it not available, but it would be $60 and up, if it was). Does anyone know where I would be able to find such an apparently "niche-like" fabric? It's for Eowyn's "Shield Maiden" gown, specifically the bottom half of the vest (well, it's really a vest beneath a bodice that starts beneath the bust). Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 12:31:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RGVQqa016848 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:31:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RGWjcf008638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RGWhGu003091; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:32:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RGWdGu003064 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:27:00 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A4C5306E00E4; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:26:45 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:26:45 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:32:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c30cda$a6d6ba80$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <11f.210cdfbb.2bdd4412@aol.com> X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It would be very easy to just get the velvet and quilt it yourself. AND cheaper! Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of IceGirlNIN@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 9:33 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help Technically this isn't for a historical costume (it's for a fantasy costume instead, a LOTR costume), but since there are so many people here, I decided to ask. I'm looking for pre-quilted velvet, specifically in a dark/chocolate brown shade. I've been told that it's possible to find, but in two days of online searching, I've had no luck (and the local fabric store? Not only is it not available, but it would be $60 and up, if it was). Does anyone know where I would be able to find such an apparently "niche-like" fabric? It's for Eowyn's "Shield Maiden" gown, specifically the bottom half of the vest (well, it's really a vest beneath a bodice that starts beneath the bust). Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 13:06:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RH6iqa016951 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:06:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RH87cf010369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RH84Wj016972; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3RH80Wj016897 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OkaZy764JA6dVHruVriDbLQ=">; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:07:08 PDT Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWSQJLPM; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:07:08 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:36:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Message-ID: <20030427.100626.1280.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-27 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's basically a tube with lacings--it has no contours. It's not designed to remold your body at all, but rather works with the shape you have. Arlys On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:14:46 -0700 Kimiko Small writes: > At 07:46 AM 4/26/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >A friend made me a barrel corset. > > What is a barrel corset? > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 15:57:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RJvSqa017317 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RJwpcf021148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RJwmsS026709; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:58:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f173.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RJwjsS026652 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:58:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:58:40 -0700 Received: from 207.68.52.90 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:58:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.68.52.90] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:58:40 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2003 19:58:40.0321 (UTC) FILETIME=[65F05310:01C30CF7] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just remember this important tip: no matter how tightly or loosely you lace your corset, your stomach will have almost nowhere to go when you put food into it, so eat lightly and often. I learned this one the hard way. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Tania Gruning >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:08:43 -0700 (PDT) > > >I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I >did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. >Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? What >would be a reasonable compression? I have a 26 inch waist and I can almost >close the 22 inch of the rack corset I bought last year without discomfort. > >Tania > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 16:36:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKavqa017377 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKcOcf023460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKcLsS011904; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKcHsS011800 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:38:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a243.in-tch.com [66.62.107.43]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3RKKDv26174 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EAC3FE4.2C14A940@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:39:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a schole-house for the needle References: <397A88E8-75B9-11D7-AE17-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd love to buy a repro, despite the price. Do you have contact info to pass on? --sue rob and laurie gage wrote: > > Greetings all! > I've been searching the web for a used copy of this book to no avail. I > have found several good images on different sites , but I'd really like > a copy of my own. > The owners of the original (or one of them) are selling repros, but > they don't accept credit or debit cards and they don't have an order > site. A few needlework merchants sell the repros, but at $45-$50 a pop > it's a bit out of my range. > Does anyone on the list know where I can get a used copy, or one less > expensively? I've checked Barnes and Noble, half.com and Amazon with no > results. > If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please let me know. > Much thanks, > Laurie Gage > rlgage@adelphia.net > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 16:40:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKe4qa017384 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKfVcf023670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKfUsS013221; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f160.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RKd1sS012184 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:38:56 -0700 Received: from 207.68.52.90 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:38:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.68.52.90] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:38:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2003 20:38:56.0366 (UTC) FILETIME=[060388E0:01C30CFD] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps they had different types of corsets for different activities? Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. > > >For sure, sports and even music (singing or wood-wind >players will notice a big difference in their chests and waists...if they >are using their diaphrames, correctly) . > >But Victorian women sang, at parties and all sorts of social events. Sports >is another matter, but many rode, some did more vigerous sports but few to >the extent that is common now. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 17:24:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLOcqa017478 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLPvcf026285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLPuCp029287; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLPqCp029212 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:25:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.112.223d0f4c (24895) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:25:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <112.223d0f4c.2bdda4d3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:25:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/27/2003 12:33:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kbaird@cableone.net writes: > It would be very easy to just get the velvet and quilt it yourself. AND > cheaper! > > And I was just thinking that $60 a yard sounds very reasonable, considering the extreme hassle of quilting it yourself! You would probably need an even feed food to do it. I didn't have one, and paid $100 for one for my Bernina. Now I grant you, that is a long-term investment, but even the unquilted velvet isn't going to be cheap, either, and the stuff is going to creep like the dickens unless you hand quilt it. And you also have to buy the fill and the backing. But it sounds like you don't need a great deal, so maybe hand quilting is an option. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 17:37:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLbAqa017523 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:37:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLcdcf027088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:38:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLccCp003983; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:38:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RLcZCp003938 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:38:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.5b.387d811f (4539) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:38:29 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.387d811f.2bdda7d4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:38:28 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/27/03 5:29:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > > > > And I was just thinking that $60 a yard sounds very reasonable, considering > > the extreme hassle of quilting it yourself! You would probably need an > even > feed food to do it. I didn't have one, and paid $100 for one for my > Bernina. > Now I grant you, that is a long-term investment, but even the unquilted > velvet isn't going to be cheap, either, and the stuff is going to creep > like > the dickens unless you hand quilt it. And you also have to buy the fill > and > the backing. But it sounds like you don't need a great deal, so maybe hand > > quilting is an option. Unquilted velvet in brown is between $12 and $20 a yard, depending on where I purchase it from. I'd need a yard, maybe a yard and a half. My machine doesn't -do- quilting (yeah, yeah, I need a new one. I need a summer job first). I also have no idea how to hand quilt which is why I wanted to find the pre-quilted stuff. I'm a seamstress, not a quilter. (This is not meant as an offense to quilters; I just have no clue how to quilt) Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 18:41:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RMfPqa017637 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:41:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RMgMcf001142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RMgKsQ027519; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RMgHsQ027460 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:42:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-83.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.83]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACI85958; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:41:58 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00e101c30d0e$a940b800$db764ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:45:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Perhaps they had different types of corsets for different activities? There were certainly riding corsets Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 19:56:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RNuAqa017785 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RNqWcf005872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RNqUXa026364; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3RNqPXa026343 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2BAA7ABDA for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 86516-05 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-102-246.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.102.246]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58A67ABE7 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:52:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <45F7ECD6-790B-11D7-9643-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I'm working Dickens, I live on Slim Fast shakes... or similar fare. It's a good way to get in the calories you need to have energy without hurting in a corset... and they are much more portable than other foods. On Sunday, April 27, 2003, at 12:58 PM, Nancy Kiel wrote: > Just remember this important tip: no matter how tightly or loosely > you lace your corset, your stomach will have almost nowhere to go when > you put food into it, so eat lightly and often. I learned this one > the hard way. > > > > Nancy Kiel > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > Never tease a weasel! > This is very good advice. > For the weasel will not like it > And teasing isn't nice. > > > > > >> From: Tania Gruning >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets >> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:08:43 -0700 (PDT) >> >> >> I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make >> some. I did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of >> 15-16 inchs. Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and >> wishfull thinking? What would be a reasonable compression? I have a >> 26 inch waist and I can almost close the 22 inch of the rack corset I >> bought last year without discomfort. >> >> Tania >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 20:15:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0FQqa017845 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:15:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0Gfcf007235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0Gbx6006366; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3S0GYx6006350 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1566 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2003 00:16:33 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2003 00:16:33 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-86.sonic.net [209.148.112.86]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3S0GW621246 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:16:32 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030427171611.00ae1fe0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:17:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets In-Reply-To: <00e101c30d0e$a940b800$db764ed5@pavilion> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have three original patterns for late 1860s knitted and crocheted corsets (two are published in my book _Reconstruction Era Fashions_). They may be for neglige wear but it's hard to tell. Fran At 11:45 PM 4/27/2003 +0100, you wrote: > >Perhaps they had different types of corsets for different activities? > >There were certainly riding corsets > >Mel > >This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received >it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose >the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of >this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the >Company, unless specifically stated. > > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 20:24:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0OJqa017853 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0Picf007846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0Phx6009704; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:25:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0Pfx6009679 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D5667A9DD for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 87081-04 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-102-246.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.102.246]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E297AC03 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:25:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] OT: making fabric from paper X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen really neat things being done with paper being laminated into a stiff sort of fabric... really cool pieces being made out of old comic books or newpapers, etc. I wanted to try some of that for an art-wearable project and I thought I'd ask this group before I went out and bought every kind of laminating solution ... has anyone ever done this? got any ideas for how to turn paper into fabric? .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 20:26:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0Qvqa017860 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0R8cf007992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:27:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0R8x6010496; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [63.251.216.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S0R5x6010477 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from megan2 (216-164-48-211.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.211]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC951C1D5 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:27:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:26:56 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <5b.387d811f.2bdda7d4@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What kind of machine do you have that *doesn't* do quilting? I can quilt even on my oldest shuttle-style treadle machines (read 1911 vintage). If you have a straight stitch you can quilt. Or do you mean a particular stitch? Puzzled, -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of IceGirlNIN@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:38 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help In a message dated 4/27/03 5:29:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > > > > And I was just thinking that $60 a yard sounds very reasonable, considering > > the extreme hassle of quilting it yourself! You would probably need an > even > feed food to do it. I didn't have one, and paid $100 for one for my > Bernina. > Now I grant you, that is a long-term investment, but even the unquilted > velvet isn't going to be cheap, either, and the stuff is going to creep > like > the dickens unless you hand quilt it. And you also have to buy the fill > and > the backing. But it sounds like you don't need a great deal, so maybe hand > > quilting is an option. Unquilted velvet in brown is between $12 and $20 a yard, depending on where I purchase it from. I'd need a yard, maybe a yard and a half. My machine doesn't -do- quilting (yeah, yeah, I need a new one. I need a summer job first). I also have no idea how to hand quilt which is why I wanted to find the pre-quilted stuff. I'm a seamstress, not a quilter. (This is not meant as an offense to quilters; I just have no clue how to quilt) Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 21:14:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1EAqa018169 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1Fbcf011245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1FZVf000821; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1FWVf000772 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.51.2e621b92 (4539) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <51.2e621b92.2bdddaa6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:15:18 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/27/03 8:29:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, megan@benchite.com writes: > > What kind of machine do you have that *doesn't* do quilting? I can quilt > even on my oldest shuttle-style treadle machines (read 1911 vintage). If > you have a straight stitch you can quilt. Or do you mean a particular > stitch? Perhaps I should pay more attention in sewing class. I'd heard that there were specific "quilting machines" that worked well to quilt fabric. My machine does have a straight stitch (otherwise I'd be in big trouble, wouldn't I?). At the moment, of course, it's not working properly, so I'm taking it in to the local sewing machine repair place. It had better be working by May 15th, because I have an Elizabethan that's due on June 1! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 21:17:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1HQqa018184 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1Iqcf011429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1IqVf001991; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1ImVf001963 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host-66-81-241-17.rev.o1.com ([66.81.241.17] helo=[66.81.241.16]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 199xI7-0003VA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:18:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3EAC3FE4.2C14A940@in-tch.com> References: <397A88E8-75B9-11D7-AE17-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> <3EAC3FE4.2C14A940@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:10:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: a schole-house for the needle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:39 PM -0600 4/27/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I'd love to buy a repro, despite the price. Do you have contact info to >pass on? I'm pretty sure Lacis carries it -- that's where I got mine. The ISBN is 1-872665-72-1 if that helps with the searching. It was published in 1998 by RJL Smith & Associates, Much Wenlock, Shropshire (England) and it's essentially a photo-facsimile of the pages of an extant, almost complete, period copy. I don't know how the author would be listed -- Richard Shorleyker (the original author) or John and Elizabeth Mason (owners of the copy being reproduced). -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 21:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1q0qa018368 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:52:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1rScf013774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:53:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1rRVf015673; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S1rOVf015644 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-94.gti.net [208.216.115.94]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 6E36A35852 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EAC8997.D3F1BC66@gti.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:53:27 -0400 From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets References: <00e101c30d0e$a940b800$db764ed5@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And also maternity corsets & nursing corsets... ~Lisa > There were certainly riding corsets _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 22:55:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S2tCqa018676 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:55:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S2tJcf017793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:55:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S2tH9F010269; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:55:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S2tE9G010254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:55:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h3S2tErX010253 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:55:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:55:14 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: making fabric from paper Message-ID: <20030428025514.GA7725@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hinestly, you might want to ask this over on f-costume, the fantasy costuming list. There's probably one or more people there who do that all the time. ...eliz -- Please allow 8-12 weeks for delivery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Apr 27 23:27:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S3RYqa018782 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:27:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S3Sucf019973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S3Sr9F023274; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:28:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S3So9F023226 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from there (d14-69-212-144.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.144.212]) h3S3Ucm02338 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:30:38 -0500 Message-Id: <200304280330.h3S3Ucm02338@pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:29:18 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.1(snapshot 20020919) (pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com) Subject: [h-cost] A reliable Elna repair center in Ann Arbor, MI? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all. I inherited an Elna Supermatic (circa 1972), and would love to start using it! But first it needs an overhaul (clean, oil and lube), some cams and an owner's manual. Aside from that, it is in terrific shape. ;-) Does anyone know of a reputable Elna service center in the Ann Arbor, Michigan area? And where is a good source for cams and an owner's manual? I emailed Elna USA twice for information, and have yet to receive a reply. Thanks, Michelle =========================================================== Steve Plumb -- skplumb@wideopenwest.com Michelle Plumb -- mplumb@wideopenwest.com Plymouth, Michigan USA "Give me ten men like Clouseau, and I could destroy the world." -- Herbert Lom, in "A Shot In the Dark" =========================================================== _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 00:06:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S46aqa018877 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:06:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S45Tcf022500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S45S8P008049; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S45P8P007999 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20030428040520051001an9he>; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:05:20 +0000 Message-ID: <3EACA88E.7080800@fenris.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:05:34 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A reliable Elna repair center in Ann Arbor, MI? References: <200304280330.h3S3Ucm02338@pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com> In-Reply-To: <200304280330.h3S3Ucm02338@pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Viking Sewing Center 5235 Jackson Road Elizabeth Young Michelle Plumb wrote: snip >Does anyone know of a reputable Elna service center in the Ann Arbor, >Michigan area? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 02:37:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S6bfqa025773 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 02:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S6aOcf000571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:36:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S6aIEK005155; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S6aEEK005127 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3S6ZSq28433 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304280635.h3S6ZSq28433@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: making fabric from paper X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm still looking for the photo transfer emulsion, but this stuff may also be part of what you're seeing: http://www.joann.com/catalog.jhtml?PRODID=47279&CATID=24991&foreground=green This is treated fabric that's meant to be run through an inkjet printer. Similar to doing your own with Bubble Jet Set 2000, though I find this stuff to run through the printer with fewer problems than my own self-made sheets. This stuff also comes in an iron-on variety, which I've used to make patches. Found it. The product is called Decal-It, an image transfer emulsion made by Plaid? Ah, the product name may have changed. Try "Picture This" http://www.plaidonline.com/productDetail.asp?itemID=24951&productName=&Cat1ID=6&Cat2ID=4&Cat3ID=152&brandID=&keywords=&New=False&Closeout=False&page=1 Or the opaque form for dark fabrics: http://www.plaidonline.com/productDetail.asp?itemID=24902&productName=&Cat1ID=6&Cat2ID=4&Cat3ID=152&brandID=&keywords=&New=False&Closeout=False&page=1 Now I know why I couldn't find the stuff anymore. It's changed names. [Off to continue blockprinting another performance costume] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 06:52:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SAq2qa021473 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:52:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SAqBcf012861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:52:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SAq8rd001068; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9-0.mail.adelphia.net [64.8.50.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SAq4rd001024 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adelphia.net ([68.65.179.208]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030428105159.LDGS19507.mta9.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:51:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:51:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Schole-house for the Needle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: rob and laurie gage To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200304280637.h3S6b6EL005449@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <6FB56EF1-7967-11D7-AE17-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO sue, http://www.hedgehoghandworks.com/ for $48.00 http://www.scarlet-letter.com/book/chart/bkchart4.html#schole for $44.00 please let me know if the price is worth the repro. thanks, laurie On Monday, April 28, 2003, at 02:37 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:39:00 -0600 > From: Sue Clemenger > Subject: Re: [h-cost] a schole-house for the needle > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <3EAC3FE4.2C14A940@in-tch.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I'd love to buy a repro, despite the price. Do you have contact info > to > pass on? > --sue > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 08:01:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SC1sqa021623 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:01:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SC22cf017650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SC2197028287; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SC1u97028081 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:01:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.112] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A51C10D9018E; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:48:44 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c30d7e$64a0b540$705183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: making fabric from paper Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:04:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Feeling a little perverse this morning...for all you paper collectors out there. Perhaps you could take your favorite fashion plates (Godey's, Peterson's,B&S,and such) or maybe old love letters and use these when laminated to make a costume of the period of the artifacts?My husband has a grande stamp collection that would be great to make fabric with... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 8:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT: making fabric from paper > > > I've seen really neat things being done with paper being laminated into > a stiff sort of fabric... > really cool pieces being made out of old comic books or newpapers, etc. > I wanted to try some > of that for an art-wearable project and I thought I'd ask this group > before I went out and bought > every kind of laminating solution ... has anyone ever done this? got > any ideas for how to turn > paper into fabric? > > .heather. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 08:37:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SCbnqa021682 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:37:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SCbvcf019565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:37:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SCbu97011658; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SCbq97011639 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:37:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p127-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.192.127] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19A7tG-0004pD-00; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:37:50 +1200 Message-ID: <3EAD2098.3000000@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:37:44 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Finding Help References: <5b.387d811f.2bdda7d4@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <5b.387d811f.2bdda7d4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Unquilted velvet in brown is between $12 and $20 a yard, depending on where I >purchase it from. I'd need a yard, maybe a yard and a half. My machine >doesn't -do- quilting (yeah, yeah, I need a new one. I need a summer job >first). > As someone else said a normal machine quilts.. and in fact is this actually quilted? In't it just over sewn? Or there might be a layer behind it but it certainly doesn't look like htere's batting as well.. Anyway all you need to do is start with one row, then do parallel rows. I think the shapes are diamonds.. but you can do this either by sewing the rows in diamonds, so diagonal rows one way and diagonal rows the other. But as they seem pretty square you could also sew the rows parallel with the selvages and perpendicular then cut the shapes on the bias. You'll probably get some gentle stretch to curve to the shape of a woman's body that way too seeing as none of the costumes have seams in the front (apart from Arwen's riding coat;) ) Seriously it's that simple. Which is actually much simpler than trying to type it out;) If you can sew boning channels you can doo this;) michaela going to tackle this very project soon:) http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 09:36:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDadqa021882 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:36:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDZIcf023659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDZG4m006124; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3SDZD4m006097 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:35:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 87292 invoked by uid 1005); 28 Apr 2003 13:35:08 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.239839 secs); 28 Apr 2003 13:35:08 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.239839 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2003 13:35:07 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:35:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20030428093128.O87595-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Guys, A friend tipped me off to a site selling really heavy duty pure linen twill fabric. The price is rather painful, but the prices are Canadian; and the fabric, when I saw it, was the spitting image of the twill used for the Effigy Corset of Queen Elizabeth. http://www.berlinembroidery.com/fabrics.htm#linentwill Thought some of youse 16th c. guys would be interested, too. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 09:56:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDuhqa021943 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:56:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDudcf025772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:56:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDubQC015534; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDuZQC015514 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.102]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HE200JNO3ZV46@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:35:22 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now that CostumeCon is over... In-reply-to: <20030424181106.91770.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030428063401.00d3c2f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200304241801.h3OI0xBm004325@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Me me me! I may actually get to meet some of you folks. I may let one of my shoulder-sitting dolls carry my red 'H' for me, when I'm early 21st century.. >Who's up for going to Costume College (August 1-3 in >L.A.), and shall we again use red "H"s to identify >h-costume list members? > >Dawn >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 09:59:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDxcqa021958 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:59:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDv3cf025806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDv3QC015731; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SDuZQE015514 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.102]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HE200JNO3ZV46@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:55:04 -0700 From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets In-reply-to: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030428063608.00d3c9c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have been doing some reseach about corsets, as I intend to make some. I >did come across sources that indicates waist in the size of 15-16 inchs. >Are these sources true or is it exaggeration and wishfull thinking? Think Jessica Rabbit, from the Roger Rabbit film. Cartoons and fashion illustrations, yes; real life, no. -snip- >Doing a brief google search... Here is a site for someone who is actually >14.5 inches in waist. >http://www.staylace.com/pinups/spook/ Sorry. I don't know how they got that measurement, but the picture shows more than 14.5 inches around, which you can double-check by comparing with a 14.5 inch loop of measuring tape. Her uncorsetted neck is possibly 14.5 inches. -snip- >Also, do you remember from Little House on the Prairie that Pa could put >both hands around Ma's waist? I was always told that this was a desirable >quality in women of that time. Where's that urban legend page when you need it... -snip- >Extreme corseting was then & now not recommended. It damages your internal >organs and can lead to failure of such vital parts, as well as effecting you >fertility and safety in pregnancy. Doctors of the time warned against it and >I would echo their worried now ! Not to mention what it does to the diaphragm in specific, and to the breathing process in general. Meanwhile, when my smaller-built kid was two, I measured her uncorsetted waist, and it was 22". And I, in what I call my housewife's model' corset, can bend over and touch my toes while being laced in as tight as I ever lace it (like 36" at the waist), proving to my own satisfaction that they don't have to be fetish-tight to do their job as period body-shapers. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 10:06:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SE62qa021981 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:06:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SE6Bcf027147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SE6AQC021123; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3S21QHb018451 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-94.gti.net [208.216.115.94]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 01F6E356F7; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EAC8B79.D8AFF91D@gti.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:01:29 -0400 From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:06:08 -0600 cc: 19cWoman <19cWoman@yahoogroups.com> cc: "sewvictorian@yahoogroups.com" Subject: [h-cost] copy of "The Opulent Era" for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If anyone is intersted, someone has a copy of "The Opulent Era" for sale. I would have to say, this particular book is actually worth the $$$, if your interested in the fashion of this period. ~Lisa 2. The Opulent Era : Fashions of Worth, Doucet and Pingat by Coleman, Elizabeth A. New York, NY, U.S.A.: Thames & Hudson, 1989 Soft Cover. Very Good. 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. softcover edition, not hardcover. The price of the book is US$ 200.00 The seller is Factory Books PMB 158 320 Seventh Avenue, Brooklyn, NY, U.S.A., 11215. Ph: 917-405-0710 Please reference the seller's book # 000139 when ordering. To order this book click here: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetails?ph=1&bi=202094852 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 11:40:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SFelqa022451 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:40:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SFcucv008646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:40:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SFOW44015436; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SFNp44014794 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Tudorldy@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id u.17d.1a245a5b (16111) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m11.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.139]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v93.8) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-3eef3ead47292bd; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:22:18 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:22:17 -0400 From: Tudorldy@aol.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <589EC2A8.5E99AEA9.00862037@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Folks, I'm going to have to be the dissenting voice on this (although by the time this makes it to the list someone else may well have said the same thing...) I honestly do not believe that uterine prolapse was caused by corsetry. It's caused by repeated childbearing. I would take this back if I could find one or two well-documented instances of a nulliparous, never pregnant woman at that time who had prolapsed uterus AND who laced tightly. Correlation does not prove causation. Until I find a satisfactory example of this, I maintain that uterine prolapse was not caused by tight lacing. I believe that that is what women were *told* at the time. The polite fiction that childbearing does one no harm is still alive and well today - in fact, if anything, it is more prevalent. Meagn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 12:19:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGJVqa022521 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGJXcf014038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGJWb4001437; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80107.mail.yahoo.com (web80107.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3SGJSb4001370 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:19:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030428161928.87238.qmail@web80107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:19:28 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:19:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304280637.h3S6b6EL005449@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fabric Finding Help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Searching for quilted velvet: Try some of your local upholstery fabric outlets and upholstery shops. Upholsterers usually special-order fabrics, and can probably order the tiny quantity you need. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 12:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGLbqa022533 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:21:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGLhcf014325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGLgb4003413; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGLab4003335 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.227.126.223] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19ABNn-0003uh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:21:35 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19ABNn-00038x-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:21:35 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030428165950.02224210@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:11:56 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Update on Multi regional DVDs In-Reply-To: <01d601c30a85$08b65100$69774ed5@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:14 24/04/2003 +0100, you wrote: >For those of you in the US who were wondering about the UK & European DVDs, >it would seem that many of the DVD players are restricted by software rather >than hardware. If you search on model number & manufacturers name multi >regional and either patch or hack you can often download the relative >software and all should be well. > >(No guarantees thought :)) Errr! If you go to http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdhacks most of the info on most players is listed. Lissa PS. Sorry if I am only popping up on this sort of thing but I'm ignorant when it comes to costume matters but learning a lot from the pearls that abound on the list. However, I am an electronics engineer and play around with a lot of different types of subjects of computer interest. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 12:33:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGXpqa022559 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:33:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGSlcf015206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGSkb4009424; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f107.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGSib4009343 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:28:38 -0700 Received: from 62.253.32.5 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:28:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.253.32.5] X-Originating-Email: [jennierussell@hotmail.com] From: "jennie russell" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:28:38 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Apr 2003 16:28:38.0856 (UTC) FILETIME=[394B1C80:01C30DA3] Subject: [h-cost] 17th century shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hi, i am looking for a good supplier of 17th century womens shoes, any one know of anywhere? thanks jennie _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 12:44:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGidqa022614 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:44:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGiYcf017301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:44:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGiVb4022442; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from moutvdom.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SGiSb4022405 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:44:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.227.126.223] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19ABjv-00040o-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:44:27 +0200 Received: from [208.252.48.163] (helo=5wal-lhiggins.bustles-and-bows.co.uk) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19ABju-00043i-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:44:27 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030428174006.02264830@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt7788416-2801@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:44:03 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: The Duchess Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030428063608.00d3c9c0@mail.frys.com> References: <20030424220843.51645.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> <001401c30aac$2f588950$6701a8c0@GENTEELARTS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:55 28/04/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Doing a brief google search... Here is a site for someone who is actually >>14.5 inches in waist. >>http://www.staylace.com/pinups/spook/ > >Sorry. I don't know how they got that measurement, but the picture shows >more than 14.5 inches around, which you can double-check by comparing with >a 14.5 inch loop of measuring tape. Her uncorsetted neck is possibly 14.5 >inches. I know the couple who run the company (C&S Constructions) who make the corsets for Spook and her waist is 14.5 inches with the corset lacing closed up. However, bear in mind that she is (a) young and her bones are still supple, and (b) she started off with a natural 22 inch waist when uncorseted. Lissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 15:19:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJJYqa023273 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:19:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJH7cf006223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJH081016790; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJGt81016707 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.183] (pm5-183.eos.net [205.133.149.183]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14444 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:16:54 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:12:16 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304261801.h3QI17nq013359@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Phoebe wrote: > I agree wholeheartedly with Gail. But those with religious themes seem to > concentrate more on the story and are notorious for BAD costuming... This may be true, but the show in question (something about St. Francis, I don't recall the name) was on the Hallmark Channel, and many of the Hallmark movies I've seen have had terrible costumes, whatever their focus. One set around the American Civil War, which ought to be easy enough for American costumers to manage, had costumes so bad that many high school theaters could do better! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 15:28:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJSFqa023297 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:28:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJRmcf007532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJRl81024647; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJRh81024593 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.183] (pm5-183.eos.net [205.133.149.183]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18332 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:27:41 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:23:04 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304281801.h3SI1Y2F020868@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 182 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Meagn wrote: The polite fiction that childbearing does one no harm is still > alive and well today - in fact, if anything, it is more prevalent. I don't know what you mean by that Meagn -- it seems to me, as someone who gave birth relatively recently, that women in general are terrified of childbearing. So terrified that (in the US, anyway) they all go to hospitals to have their babies (not complaining about that, that's where I had mine) and, where I live, the Caesarian rate is more than 30%. That said, I think you are right on the money about uterine prolapse. The fact that doctors in the corset era blamed many problems on corsets does not mean that they were caused by corsets. I would never say that tightlacing was not harmful -- don't get me wrong -- but one has to look at medical articles from 1919 about ANYTHING with a certain skepticism. I'm not an expert but I think the other people who have already written in about other causes for various "female problems" at the time are on the right track. I think it's funny that modern people (not on this list! just in general) assume that corsets were all dangerous and uncomfortable, while watching television shows showing women, most of them far too thin to be healthy, practically poured into their clothes and often wearing jeans that they probably can't sit down in! My two cents -- Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 15:36:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJaiqa023317 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:36:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJafcf008847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJad81001496; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.fuse.net (mx4.fuse.net [216.68.1.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJab81001458 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netzero.netzero.net ([66.161.252.189]) by smtp02.fuse.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030428193632.FURJ14740.smtp02.fuse.net@netzero.netzero.net> for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:36:32 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030428153344.00aa3ce0@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: zofiahborek@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:34:39 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Lady Zofia Borek Subject: Re: [h-cost] a schole-house for the needle In-Reply-To: <397A88E8-75B9-11D7-AE17-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> References: <200304221418.h3MEIg3R012649@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried Albris.com? They seem to have nothing but used and rare books. Jennifer At 02:27 PM 4/23/03 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings all! >I've been searching the web for a used copy of this book to no avail. I >have found several good images on different sites , but I'd really like a >copy of my own. >The owners of the original (or one of them) are selling repros, but they >don't accept credit or debit cards and they don't have an order site. A >few needlework merchants sell the repros, but at $45-$50 a pop it's a bit >out of my range. >Does anyone on the list know where I can get a used copy, or one less >expensively? I've checked Barnes and Noble, half.com and Amazon with no >results. >If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please let me know. >Much thanks, >Laurie Gage >rlgage@adelphia.net > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 15:38:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJciqa023321 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:38:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJcicf009122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SJch81002896; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3SJcd81002853 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:38:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 332 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2003 19:38:38 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2003 19:38:38 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-247.sonic.net [209.148.112.247]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3SJcbe32514 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:38:37 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030428123559.00ae3c80@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:39:56 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 182 In-Reply-To: References: <200304281801.h3SI1Y2F020868@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I don't know what you mean by that Meagn -- it seems to me, as someone who >gave birth relatively recently, that women in general are terrified of >childbearing. So terrified that (in the US, anyway) they all go to hospitals >to have their babies (not complaining about that, that's where I had mine) >and, where I live, the Caesarian rate is more than 30%. I think the Victorians were well aware of the dangers. Enough so that, I can think of several Victorian novels where the woman, or her husband, expresses relief after the birth that the woman has been spared death. This without any unusual complications/problems having been mentioned. That is, no suggestion that the birth was anything but routine from a medical standpoint, but it was still considered a distinct possibility that she might die. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 17:33:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLXfqa023885 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:33:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLXncf023492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLXk4o008892; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:33:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLXi4o008799 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout10.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE200JM0P5N1U@mtaout10.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:32:12 -0500 From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Corsets To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3EAD9DDC.5080804@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The small waspish waists of the Victorian Era did happen, but they were the exception to the rule. When you look at the old catalogs, and advert. pictures what you see is a picture that has been severely modified. They commonly had the practice of taking a picture of whatever corset they were advertising on its metal shaper stand... (for the life of me I have blanked out on what it was called) it is the thing they would steam the shape into the corset with.. anyway, they would take a picture of it on that, then superimpose the corset onto a picture of the model and then clean up the pictue and black out the areas of the females torso. This way the corset could be shown in its perfect condition. No wrinkles, no bumps/lumps or bunching of any kind in the contour. Much of the product we see in magazines these days are treated the exact same way. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 17:48:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLmXqa023940 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:48:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLmYcf025251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLmV4o020180; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLmR4o020081 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout10.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE200JNRPVE84@mtaout10.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:47:39 -0500 From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3EADA17B.5050503@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 Subject: [h-cost] Average waist size. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After reading Lil Sorepaws post about her waist size makes me remininsce about my past days. Can anyone else remember when the style was to wear a belt with clothing? I was raised in the US during the 50's and I can remember if I wore a skirt or slacks or even shorts (Bermuda of course) they were always very well tailored and you always wore a belt with them, this was up to the mid 1960"s. My mother was a tennis player in her youth and she wore a belt then also. And I can remember wearing a girdle at the ripe age of 12 to give me that sleek smooth look under some of the skirts and to hold my stockings up. The end result was smaller waists than what is commonly seen today. At 14 I weighed 158 lbs., was 5'6" and my figure was 38-24-37. I don't recall deliberately tightening my belt or anything, it just fit at that size. My waist was naturally compressed over the years and since you only bought a new belt when the old one was out of style, or you gained excessive weight, I guess it just kept your waist smaller. Look at pictures of Marilyn Monroe, or Jane Mansfield, both very well fed females of very curvy proportions, and they had fairly small waists I believe. I believe that compression of the soft flesh is fairly easy to do so severely if done over a series of weeks, months years. I am not advocating doing it, (although I have many clients that do so) I am just saying it is possible to do so without great harm if done slowly. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 17:58:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLw9qa023964 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLw3cf026224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLw3bt026658; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SLw0bt026618 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.139]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A7179480051 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:57:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c30dd1$cff0b310$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3EADA17B.5050503@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average waist size. Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:02:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. This is very true, and i remember my father. He had his natural waist higher than over the hips, and i think this was because it was fashionable from his youth to wear a belt with the trousers and having them higher than normal. My father was born in 1911. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] Average waist size. > After reading Lil Sorepaws post about her waist size makes me remininsce about my past days. > Can anyone else remember when the style was to wear a belt with clothing? I was raised in > the US during the 50's and I can remember if I wore a skirt or slacks or even shorts > (Bermuda of course) they were always very well tailored and you always wore a belt with > them, this was up to the mid 1960"s. My mother was a tennis player in her youth and she > wore a belt then also. And I can remember wearing a girdle at the ripe age of 12 to give > me that sleek smooth look under some of the skirts and to hold my stockings up. > The end result was smaller waists than what is commonly seen today. At 14 I weighed 158 > lbs., was 5'6" and my figure was 38-24-37. I don't recall deliberately tightening my belt > or anything, it just fit at that size. My waist was naturally compressed over the years > and since you only bought a new belt when the old one was out of style, or you gained > excessive weight, I guess it just kept your waist smaller. Look at pictures of Marilyn > Monroe, or Jane Mansfield, both very well fed females of very curvy proportions, and they > had fairly small waists I believe. I believe that compression of the soft flesh is fairly > easy to do so severely if done over a series of weeks, months years. I am not advocating > doing it, (although I have many clients that do so) I am just saying it is possible to do > so without great harm if done slowly. > -- > Linda Thompson > > Attitude Is Everything > http://corsetsandcostumes.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 18:33:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SMXaqa024067 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SMXicf000176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SMXgbt022393; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SMXdbt022309 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.21.2e6d6701 (4328) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:33:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <21.2e6d6701.2bdf0633@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:33:23 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] costume connection pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I tried the Costume Connection women's cavalier pattern and I'm sorry to say it's in the pile of unfinished-may-never-finish costumes. I knew it was inaccurate and thought I could change some of those inaccuracies and make a more historically correct looking costume. No such luck. I really don't recommend it. I think you're much better off using the Hunniset patterns. I've had nothing but good luck with them. Hope this helps. Cheers, Loren Dearborn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 19:04:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SN4Tqa024134 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:04:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SN4fcf004148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SN4cdh014253; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SN4Zdh014174 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ap-013caburbp0009.dialsprint.net ([63.191.0.9] helo=[0019381808]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AHfl-0005wu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:04:33 -0400 From: "Katherine" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:04:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3EAD5121.14610.38E7C5@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200304281801.h3SI1Y2G020868@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [h-cost] Quilting Velvet-Was Fabric Finding Help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christine, I'm making this dress too. Just finished the corset last night. (Yay!). I quilted the front panel of my corset, pretty much exactly the way Michaela describes below and it turned out great. It seemed to take ages, but was extremely simple to do. I'm using velvet as well. It's a chocolate brown cotton velvet and it's probably one of the nicest, easiest fabrics I've ever worked with. Except for the velvet pills. They went everywhere. Yuck :) I flat-lined the velvet layer of the corset with a layer of cotton sateen. I tried quilting with and without it, and there was a huge improvement with it. I almost didn't quilt it, but am very glad I did. I ended up doing it backwards and sewing the pieces together and then quilting it. I just marked the shapes on the sateen with a fabric marker and sewed on those lines... I took pictures of the whole process, they're still in my digital camera. I'll be doing a dress diary for this dress so they should be up within a week or two, maybe? Not too much longer... Good luck! Katherine > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:37:44 +1200 > From: michaela > > > >Unquilted velvet in brown is between $12 and $20 a yard, depending on > >where I purchase it from. I'd need a yard, maybe a yard and a half. My > >machine doesn't -do- quilting (yeah, yeah, I need a new one. I need a > >summer job first). > > Anyway all you need to do is start with one row, then do parallel rows. I > think the shapes are diamonds.. but you can do this either by sewing the > rows in diamonds, so diagonal rows one way and diagonal rows the other. > Katherine "I go by-by." Alexandra Feodorovna, last empress of Russia, in a letter to her husband, Nicholas II _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 19:16:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNG9qa024238 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNGFcf006501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNGEdh022909; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNGBdh022871 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-012-243.jps.net ([216.119.12.243] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AHr0-00072L-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:16:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:12:42 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200304252001.h3PK1Kko027689@sca.uwaterloo.ca> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [h-cost] Western Suit Pattern? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all! Does anyone know of patterns for Western-style suits, c. late 1960's-early 1970's? I'm looking for something that might work as a basis for a Nudie style suit (y'know, rhinestones, embroidery, Merle Haggard, Buck Owens, etc). So far, I do have a pattern for a Western-style shirt, but it's an original from my mom's pattern collection dating from the early 70's. I just need the jacket and pants patterns... Sarah http://www.elizabethanlady.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 19:34:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNY6qa024288 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNXQcf009975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNXPdh004759; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNXLdh004680 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.d.f5922b6 (4568) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:33:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:33:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Western Suit Pattern? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Authentic Patterns at authenticpatterns.com. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 19:35:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNZQqa024291 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:35:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNZYcf010412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:35:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNZXdh006196; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNZSdh006131 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.181]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h3SNp1M18415 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:51:02 +1000 Message-ID: <094001c30ddf$3af1d060$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century shoes Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:38:08 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Which country do you live in? Glenda ----- Original Message ----- From: "jennie russell" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] 17th century shoes > hi, > i am looking for a good supplier of 17th century womens shoes, any one know > of anywhere? > thanks > jennie > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 19:55:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNtwqa024346 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:55:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNu7cf014384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNu6hC027475; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3SNu2hC027434 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFB7C3A0030; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:56:39 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF928BD020E; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:56:02 -0500 Message-ID: <00dc01c30de1$8cbcec20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <589EC2A8.5E99AEA9.00862037@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:54:46 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Prolapsed is caused by a weakness of the muscles of the lower abdomen. You can also have the bladder prolapse. My sister had both of these things happen in the early 1990s. She is a nurse and only had two children. BTW, I have had six children and have not had this problem. I know several people who have had multiple children. None have had prolapsed uterus or bladder. >From my medical book: "The uterus normally rests on the floor of the pelvis, held in position by numerous ligaments. Damage to the ligaments and other supporting tissues permits the uterus to descend, or prolapse, into the vagina... very similar to a hernia." The book does not specify if childbirth causes the problem and from reading the medical book, it sounds like it is something that one is born with strong muscles in this area of the body or not. I have two sons born with hernias in the lower abdomen. As the muscles weaken they spread apart, allowing things to move out of place. I can understand the thinking that a corset could cause the muscles to weaken. I recently asked my doctors about using a back brace. Modern braces are very similar to corsets. I used one in the 80s when I had back problems then. Currently, every doctor and physical therapist I have consulted have strongly objected to wearing low back braces because it weakens the muscles quickly and that your body becomes dependant on the brace. Corsets were at that longest length and most restrictive from 1900-1920s. It seems to me that this would be the generation where we would see the largest health problems due to corsetry. Since we still have women alive who were born from the 1910-the 20s, I would be interested to see some research about the effects of corsetry (from youth) on these women as elderly people. Another thought on this matter... as we all know every 5-10 years the medical community does a 360 on what they believe about certain matters of health. Just look at the 360s they have done on what causes cancer. This food causes cancer, then another study comes out and says it doesn't. The majority of my kids have asthma. Over the past 22 years, I have seen doctors do a 360 at least 5 times about asthma treatment. The point is... the medical community changes it mind all the time as to what causes what. One last thing, our state health dept. sent a letter to me stating that obesity causes asthma. I just laughed and laughed. I showed the letter to my GP doctor and to our pediatrician. Both of the doctors were floored and said, "No it doesn't!" Both agreed that obesity can cause sleep apnea but not asthma. My pediatrician wrote the state asking for documentation as to where they could make this claim. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 20:20:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T0Krqa024449 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T0L2cf017541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T0KxhC012706; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T0KuhC012664 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE2001DIWYR2V@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:20:47 -0500 From: Allison In-reply-to: <200304281801.h3SI1Y2F020868@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Re: quilted fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can't remember who asked original question - Christine, maybe? Anyhoo - from experience, I have advice on technique. If you are going to quilt by machine, sew the first row, then instead of sewing all the rest of the rows that are parallel to this one, then sew the first row that goes in the other direction, the back and forth until you are finished. BE SURE TO ALTERNATE which direction you sew. If you don't the fabric gets all wonky and it won't lay flat, and it looks terrible. Allison P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 21:03:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T13sqa024582 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:03:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T13pcf020941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:03:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T13oF4004615; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T13mF4004530 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m36.in-tch.com [216.166.191.36]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3T0j0v10083 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EADCF97.AE3E7C02@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:04:23 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill References: <20030428093128.O87595-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ouch! It is pretty highly priced, even after a Canadian/US conversion. Looks like nice stuff though--I might have to get some, if my tax refund every comes....;-D Scrolling down that same page, I see some silks, as well. I'm not interested in the silk noile, but what is silk "matka?" --sue, who has *no doubt* that Drea is an evil temptress! Drea Leed wrote: > > Guys, > > A friend tipped me off to a site selling really heavy duty pure linen > twill fabric. The price is rather painful, but the prices are Canadian; > and the fabric, when I saw it, was the spitting image of the twill used > for the Effigy Corset of Queen Elizabeth. > > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/fabrics.htm#linentwill > > Thought some of youse 16th c. guys would be interested, too. > > Drea > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 21:21:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1Ljqa024634 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:21:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1LQcf022274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1LOF4013143; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1LJF5013104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3T1LXN1021050 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:21:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h3T1LX7k021048 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:21:33 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:21:33 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <589EC2A8.5E99AEA9.00862037@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <589EC2A8.5E99AEA9.00862037@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304282121.33102.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 28 April 2003 11:22 am, Tudorldy@aol.com wrote: > Folks, I'm going to have to be the dissenting voice on this (although by > the time this makes it to the list someone else may well have said the same > thing...) > > I honestly do not believe that uterine prolapse was caused by corsetry. > > It's caused by repeated childbearing. I would take this back if I could > find one or two well-documented instances of a nulliparous, never pregnant > woman at that time who had prolapsed uterus AND who laced tightly. > Correlation does not prove causation. I have never been pregnant. My uterine prolapse was caused by fibroids; I have never been a tight lacer. -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 21:25:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1P2qa024645 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1PCcf022577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1PBF4015270; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1P8F5015245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:25:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3T1PNN1021080 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:25:23 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h3T1PMTh021078 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:25:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a schole-house for the needle Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:25:22 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200304221418.h3MEIg3R012649@net.indra.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030428153344.00aa3ce0@pop.netzero.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030428153344.00aa3ce0@pop.netzero.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304282125.22636.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 28 April 2003 03:34 pm, Lady Zofia Borek wrote: > Have you tried Albris.com? They seem to have nothing but used and rare > books. Addall.com has both used and new book search engines. It searches ALibris, Barnes & Noble, half.com and about 20 others. -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 21:28:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1Sgqa024657 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:28:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1Rucf022802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1RrF4016490; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T1RnF4016415 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:27:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m36.in-tch.com [216.166.191.36]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3T19iv20725 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EADD563.CFFB8CA3@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:29:07 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 182 References: <200304281801.h3SI1Y2F020868@net.indra.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030428123559.00ae3c80@pop.sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd imagine it could be fear of the unknown, as much as anything. Wait...that sounds wrong. What I meant was, the risks of childbirth would have been pretty well known, but on an individual level, there would have been a lot of uncertainty. I know if it were something I'd ever gone through (in a previous century, or now), I'd be thankful for having made it safely through such a life-changing experience.... --sue Lavolta Press wrote: > > > > >I don't know what you mean by that Meagn -- it seems to me, as someone who > >gave birth relatively recently, that women in general are terrified of > >childbearing. So terrified that (in the US, anyway) they all go to hospitals > >to have their babies (not complaining about that, that's where I had mine) > >and, where I live, the Caesarian rate is more than 30%. > > I think the Victorians were well aware of the dangers. Enough so that, I > can think of several Victorian novels where the woman, or her husband, > expresses relief after the birth that the woman has been spared > death. This without any unusual complications/problems having been > mentioned. That is, no suggestion that the birth was anything but routine > from a medical standpoint, but it was still considered a distinct > possibility that she might die. > > Fran > > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 22:48:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T2mxqa024858 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:48:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T2n5cf028481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T2mv0e024148; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marlo.eagle.ca (marlo.eagle.ca [209.167.16.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T2mr0f024115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Elizabeth (dialin291.eagle.ca [209.167.59.114]) by marlo.eagle.ca (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id h3T2mqE64978 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:48:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mercury@eagle.ca) From: "Alabaster" To: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:27:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all - I was wondering if some of you could help me. I know that you don't all actually work in the costume/fashion fields but I know you all love costume so I hope you'll have some insights that you're willing to share. In less than a month, I will be closing my historically-inspired boutique, Alabaster, which I've run since 1993 in Port Hope, Ontario, Canada. In the last ten years, my interests have become more & more defined. They now are almost completely costume related. I have been a member of this list for over 7 years & have watched with interest every time one of the members has decided to pursue a new costume enterprise. I am quite proficient in terms of researching, drafting, cutting & producing historic garments & I really love doing it. However, I'm not sure what I should aim to do now. Here are the questions running around in my mind- If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic costume, what would be your dream job/career? Where would you work, what is the absolute best thing you can think of doing? What do you find more exciting- theatre, film, custom-work, re-enactments? Any ideas that you might have would be most appreciated. I can think of so many things I'd like to do but am not sure which will actually bring in an income (& not drive me crazy). With much excitement & gratitude Elizabeth elizabeth@alabasterstyle.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 23:00:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T303qa024888 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:00:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T30Icf029192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T30Fjq029171; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T30Cjq029121 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.12b.28bba7ae (4539) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:00:05 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <12b.28bba7ae.2bdf44b4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:00:04 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Before anyone asks why I'm not sewing, here's my excuse: I have three APs in the next couple of weeks (May 5th-16th), and I have a duckling. Yes. Really. Her name's Rasha. She thinks I'm mommy, which is adorable. It's for an AP biology assignment. Really hard to sew when you're trying to keep the duck occupied! > If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic > costume, what would be your dream job/career? > Speaking from the perspective of a senior in highschool who has been asking herself similar questions, I'd love to run my own business. It's my (likely a pipe) dream to open up a "base" of sorts in New York City, and do custom work as well as make some general, "stock" pieces. These stock pieces would be your ordinary Renn-garb, made out of delicious linens, silks, and cotton. Everything would be natural as possible, with the exception of bodice laces and trims (I've never found 100% natural trim). I'd take my stock pieces and some examples of custom work to rennfaires, dressed of course as a respectable seamstress. > > What do you find more exciting- theatre, film, custom-work, re-enactments? > I will never ever do theatre work again, unless they pay me well. See the Margo's Patterns list for the fiasco that was Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. But hey, I was dealing with teenagers- if you costume adults, it shouldn't be quite so...hair-raising. I'd love to do custom-work and film, the most. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Apr 28 23:10:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T3Abqa024908 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:10:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T3Arcf000126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T3Arjq004430; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T3Aojq004374 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003042903104400300fqdg9e>; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 03:10:44 +0000 Message-ID: <12b201c30dfc$ec513310$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:08:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have done film work in the past and although I was only one of 26 on the set I got to work on the cameo's star's trousers (John de Lancie) last time around. :) There is no telling you how it made me feel. I do not understand it but it was definitely a feeling of, they trust me not to let his pants rip when he sits down and crosses his legs. But I am sure it was just more of, you over there here fix these fast. Sigh. I would love to be the one that hires and works with the costuming crew on period miniseries that are filmed more often than a period movie. Or do stage costuming again, I really loved doing that. Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alabaster" To: Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? : Hello all - : : I was wondering if some of you could help me. I know that you don't all : actually work in the costume/fashion fields but I know you all love costume : so I hope you'll have some insights that you're willing to share. : : In less than a month, I will be closing my historically-inspired boutique, : Alabaster, which I've run since 1993 in Port Hope, Ontario, Canada. In the : last ten years, my interests have become more & more defined. They now are : almost completely costume related. I have been a member of this list for : over 7 years & have watched with interest every time one of the members has : decided to pursue a new costume enterprise. I am quite proficient in terms : of researching, drafting, cutting & producing historic garments & I really : love doing it. However, I'm not sure what I should aim to do now. : : Here are the questions running around in my mind- : : If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic : costume, what would be your dream job/career? : : Where would you work, what is the absolute best thing you can think of : doing? : : What do you find more exciting- theatre, film, custom-work, re-enactments? : : Any ideas that you might have would be most appreciated. I can think of so : many things I'd like to do but am not sure which will actually bring in an : income (& not drive me crazy). : : With much excitement & gratitude : : Elizabeth : : elizabeth@alabasterstyle.com : : : : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 00:02:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T427qa025053 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:02:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T3xTcf003877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:59:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T3xS3U027353; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T3xP3U027254 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.96.88]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030429035919.UQWL4545.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:59:19 -0400 Message-ID: <009701c30e03$b17e96e0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3EADA17B.5050503@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average waist size. Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:59:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.96.88] using ID at Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:59:18 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heh, in my case I don't think it would have made much difference as I'm very short-waisted and there's only a scant inch or two between the bottom of my ribs and the top of my hips. So not a lot to compress. -.-;; -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] Average waist size. > After reading Lil Sorepaws post about her waist size makes me remininsce about my past days. > Can anyone else remember when the style was to wear a belt with clothing? I was raised in > the US during the 50's and I can remember if I wore a skirt or slacks or even shorts > (Bermuda of course) they were always very well tailored and you always wore a belt with > them, this was up to the mid 1960"s. My mother was a tennis player in her youth and she > wore a belt then also. And I can remember wearing a girdle at the ripe age of 12 to give > me that sleek smooth look under some of the skirts and to hold my stockings up. > The end result was smaller waists than what is commonly seen today. At 14 I weighed 158 > lbs., was 5'6" and my figure was 38-24-37. I don't recall deliberately tightening my belt > or anything, it just fit at that size. My waist was naturally compressed over the years > and since you only bought a new belt when the old one was out of style, or you gained > excessive weight, I guess it just kept your waist smaller. Look at pictures of Marilyn > Monroe, or Jane Mansfield, both very well fed females of very curvy proportions, and they > had fairly small waists I believe. I believe that compression of the soft flesh is fairly > easy to do so severely if done over a series of weeks, months years. I am not advocating > doing it, (although I have many clients that do so) I am just saying it is possible to do > so without great harm if done slowly. > -- > Linda Thompson > > Attitude Is Everything > http://corsetsandcostumes.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 00:59:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T4xNqa025250 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T4sRcf007031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:54:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T4sP3U021739; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T4sM3U021712 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE3003KR9MJO0@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:48:57 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030428211857.02cbd210@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/25/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Elizabeth What a wonderful question to ask us. At 10:27 PM 4/28/2003 -0400, you wrote: >If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic >costume, what would be your dream job/career? I am finally pursuing my own dream of having a custom costume shop. Personal, small, tailored to each client, and on my own hours (very important with a little baby). My husband is supporting us, so I can focus on growing the business. I still have lots to learn about some aspects of design and speeding up my sewing, but I won't be learning that just thinking about it, you know? And I came from an accounting background, so this feeds my need to be creative, and I can do the books myself. >Where would you work, what is the absolute best thing you can think of >doing? I work at home, but I miss the company of other people. Thankfully there are people online here who are helpful, and I have local costume-loving friends to chat with, who understand what costume is all about. If I wasn't doing this, I would be driven silly simply taking care of my wonderful little boy. I can only take so much baby talk before needing to do something else for a while to relax. >What do you find more exciting- theatre, film, custom-work, re-enactments? Custom work has been wonderful for my ego, to be blunt. But even more fulfilling is the thrill of seeing a happy client glowing from how they look in the garment I created for them. For one lady I made a simple Irish costume for her wedding, and I got to attend the ceremony and watch the happy couple as they recreated a Celtic wedding! That was a joyful experience for me. I also enjoy re-enactments/ren faires and live action role playing, and find I enjoy the company of other faire actors. This is why I returned to the ren faire world. I did many years creating Scots/Irish costumes, and know the ins and outs of that area. I have taught a few classes and lectures on these costumes, so I feel pretty good about re-creating them in my business. However, I just joined a nobles guild, and I am realizing that I have much to master if I am going to re-create noble styled garments. I do ok in the garment creation, and thankfully enjoy doing the hand embellishments that make a nobles garment stand out from others. It helps me to spend time with the ladies and lords of court, take photos of their fine garments, and push myself to a higher level of accomplishment. I was pleased this weekend when a lady of court asked me about doing the handwork for a new dress for her. I love her beautifully created dresses, and to be asked to embellish a new dress was a nice pat on the back from this fine lady. As for a future dream to fulfill, to create a custom garment for someone of note. I met Kayla Kennington at our local fiber arts guild meeting, and to hear that one of her garments was bought by Robin William's wife for their daughter, was just dreamy. Rather simple, but still dreamy. My other dream is to get my post-bachelor degree in costume history, or something along that line. But that will have to wait till I pay off my old loans and my baby is a bit older. Thanks for the question again. It was nice to put that to e-paper. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 01:10:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5AMqa025263 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5AYcf008322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5AX0f029904; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5AV0f029879 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:10:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-11-154.smf.jps.net ([216.119.11.154] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ANNu-00000R-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:10:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:07:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Article: Form and Deformity: Corsets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <00dc01c30de1$8cbcec20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Message-Id: <6ADAFDFD-7A00-11D7-87A7-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The book does not specify if childbirth causes the problem and from > reading > the medical book, it sounds like it is something that one is born with > strong muscles in this area of the body or not. I have two sons born > with > hernias in the lower abdomen. As the muscles weaken they spread apart, > allowing things to move out of place. As this is drifting further away from being on topic, I'll make it brief: Uterine prolapse is a lesser mentioned symptom of hypothyroidism. It's right up there with other female-only thyroid symptoms like endometriosis, ovarian cysts, polycystic ovarian disorder and infertility. I'm sure this isn't the only thing that causes it, but it's certainly recognized as one of the contributing factors. Now, back to other costume-y stuff... :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 01:10:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5Awqa025267 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:10:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5B9cf008385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5B80f000497; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5Aq0f000245 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host-66-81-240-149.rev.o1.com ([66.81.240.149]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ANOF-00002n-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:10:51 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030426150730.7AD41E4B9@sitemail.everyone.net> References: <20030426150730.7AD41E4B9@sitemail.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:09:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:07 AM -0700 4/26/03, prairielark wrote: >I agree wholeheartedly with Gail. But those with religious themes >seem to concentrate more on the story and are notorious for BAD >costuming. A lot of them do, true. However as it happens there is another, very _good_ movie about Therese of Lisieux, made in 1986 and simply titled "Therese," which was just (re-?)released on video/DVD in February -- and IIRC the costumes are _very_ accurate. (It's available on Half.com, CDconnection and a couple of other places for what seem to be reasonable prices.) Admittedly it's not a film you'd call "family viewing" -- no sex or violence, it's just that kids wouldn't understand a lot of it. For starters, it's originally in French, with subtitles, although the DVD advertises an English soundtrack. While the costumes are very realistic, the set is anything but -- a very stark, bare set with just a few pieces of furniture. Therese's brass bed as a young girl, for instance, is the usual elaborate confection with ruffled featherbed, set in the middle of a set that looks like bare gray concrete. There is also no direct narration of the story, so if you don't already know the basic storyline it can be quite difficult to follow. However it's one of the few movies I've ever gone to the theater to see _twice_, and I found it haunting and very moving. The second time through I also noticed a lot of intriguing background detail -- details of the nuns' lives that are uncommonly accurate as far as I know, for instance the opening scene where they are passing out little Christmas "gifts" to each other (tiny nosegays of paper flowers and the like -- just little tokens) and taking turns rocking the Infant Jesus doll from the Nativity scene in their arms. In other scenes I also caught a few nuns making hand signals to each other in the background (as some monasteries do to preserve silence when only a simple message needs to be conveyed -- there's no "vow of silence" as such). From a costuming point of view, I was very impressed by the accuracy of the nuns' costumes, in particular the distinctive Carmelite arrangement of veils, which is hardly ever shown correctly. There are actually two complete veils, a white under-veil (which is the only one novices wear) and over it, a fine black veil (only worn by nuns who have taken final vows). The veil is actually cut as a circle, and is usually worn folded in half, with the folded edge to the front. On the uncommon occasions when someone _not_ part of the community is present (a male visitor, for instance), the top half of the folded circle is flipped forward to hang down over the face. (I don't know whether this is still the custom of Carmelites who wear the traditional habit, but I've never seen it.) But I digress. "Therese" was directed by Alain Cavalier and starred Catherine Mouchet as St.Therese. The co-star (playing one of the nuns, I think) was Helene Alexandridis. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 01:22:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5Mpqa025297 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:22:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5N7cf009120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5N60f006653; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5N20f006612 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-11-154.smf.jps.net ([216.119.11.154] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ANa1-000172-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:23:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:19:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030428211857.02cbd210@127.0.0.1> Message-Id: <2AA9C5B8-7A02-11D7-87A7-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to >> historic >> costume, what would be your dream job/career? What I do now, except for lots, and lots of money. ;) I have this fantasy of winning the lottery and spending the rest of my life scouring the globe for extant 16th century clothing to study. Oh, and cracking open the tombs of historical figures to do facial reconstruction to see what they actually looked like. Sorta morbid, I know, but you asked... ;) And maybe having my own PBS show on historical costume would be another dream... Like NOVA for costumers. >> Where would you work, what is the absolute best thing you can think of >> doing? Sharing freely my knowledge and expertise with the world. I sorta do that already, but I wish I could do it on such a larger scale where I could actually fund research, etc. And while I'm dreaming, I'd love to set up a true historical costume program at a college here in California. One that doesn't deal with theater or fashion, but is dedicated solely to the study and creation of historical clothing, museum conservation-type work, and more of that fabulous research! I envision it being more of an anthropology-related program than a true "costume" program. >> What do you find more exciting- theater, film, custom-work, >> re-enactments? None of the above. I find research and creation the two most fulfilling things about costuming. I enjoy wearing the costumes, too, so obviously reenactment has a certain level of appeal, but I really, truly love the research and creation phases more than anything. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 01:23:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5NCqa025300 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5NScf009171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5NS0f006831; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5NO0f006800 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:23:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC8B7A91B for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 11725-10 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-15.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.15]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C99E7A8F1 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:23:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3EADCF97.AE3E7C02@in-tch.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Matka is a very loose basket weave cloth. Looks very 'homespun' but has nice drape. On Monday, April 28, 2003, at 06:04 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Ouch! It is pretty highly priced, even after a Canadian/US conversion. > Looks like nice stuff though--I might have to get some, if my tax > refund > every comes....;-D > Scrolling down that same page, I see some silks, as well. I'm not > interested in the silk noile, but what is silk "matka?" > --sue, who has *no doubt* that Drea is an evil temptress! > > Drea Leed wrote: >> >> Guys, >> >> A friend tipped me off to a site selling really heavy duty pure linen >> twill fabric. The price is rather painful, but the prices are >> Canadian; >> and the fabric, when I saw it, was the spitting image of the twill >> used >> for the Effigy Corset of Queen Elizabeth. >> >> http://www.berlinembroidery.com/fabrics.htm#linentwill >> >> Thought some of youse 16th c. guys would be interested, too. >> >> Drea >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 01:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5mLqa025385 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:48:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5mVcf010565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5mU0f018390; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T5mS0f018374 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A25117CB0032; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:49:05 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A22C13800E6; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:48:28 -0500 Message-ID: <01c501c30e12$bf5dc6a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:46:56 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Alabaster, What a fun question!!!!!! It is always exciting and scary to change career fields in mid-stream. But taking the risk is the fun part. Kim, when my kids were little was when I did the majority of my sewing and hand work. My boys and husband really enjoyed the process of seeing something created. Enjoy it while they are young... when they get older, you are always running them somewhere. As for the questions: > If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic > costume, what would be your dream job/career? I kinda feel like I get to do my dream job everyday. Although I never really dreamed of the things I have accomplished over the past six years... everyday brings something new and exciting. Somethings I have to look at the photos to remember, "I really did that!" It is wonderful to have the flexibility to work from my home and do so many different things. It is also wonderful to give others the opportunity to do the same thing, work from home doing something they love. It gives us the opportunity to work around my kids schedules and still devote time to my business. The dream job I have always wanted was to design for film. But blowing a disk in my neck my last semester in college was God's way of telling me, maybe I should re-think my career choice. Another dream job is to develop costume images digitally for film. George Lucas did this with his past two Star Wars films. I tried to get into a master's level program to do this but at the time on the East Coast this program had not been developed. I did a workshop with Lucas Arts on how they do this, but choose not to interview with the company because I have a phobia about earthquakes and California. So we just use a few things I learned in the workshop on restoring images for my website. I would like to move more into 3-D imaging of historic fashions. One day, I will actually take the courses in Flash and move in that direction. I am also considering way down the road of having a TV series on costuming... like on Style TV. But that is a dream right now. Cool dream... showing costume collections from museums, lectures, interviews with stage and film designers. Lets see how my back holds up and maybe it will happen! > Where would you work, what is the absolute best thing you can think of > doing? I actually like working out of the Richmond metro area. The access here for the East Coast is great! I can move up and down the seaboard in a matter of hours. This area really has a great love for art and history. A lot of films are shot here and there is a wonderful access to original items. I call it *touching history* instead of reading it from a book. Makes a big difference!!! > What do you find more exciting- theatre, film, custom-work, re-enactments? I really love film!!!!!! My passion started as a child. I was in heaven when I have been on set and got to see the actual workings of the film-making process. My second choice would be re-enactment, since so much of it goes on here. I love going to good re-enactments. I wouldn't like to participate, but I love going to see it. I love dressing people in costume and making them look great. I also love dressing mannequins for exhibit and photo shoots. Primping a dress on someone or a mannequin is one of my favorite things to do. Good luck with your new career move! Please keep us updated! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 02:22:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T6MDqa029622 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 02:22:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T6MOcf012597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T6MMXK003711; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3T6MIXK003630 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) h3T6MCG25874 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:22:12 +1000 Message-ID: <001a01c30e18$0e1b73f0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <01c501c30e12$bf5dc6a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: [h-cost] sort of OT: Parades Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:24:56 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is an urgent request to anyone who is online right at this moment. I am studying costume at college and need to interview someone who has experience in running a costume parade. If you have and are able to reply in the next few hours it would be greatly appreciated. (yes I've left this till the last minute.. I'm a student :-) If you can answer the following questions off list that would be a great help. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ What were your responsibilities? What did you have to do prior to the parade? What did you have to do on the night/during the parade? Were there any problems, how did you resolve them? Any advise on running a parade? What did you have to do after the parade - any follow ups? Thanks again. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 06:20:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TAKwqa027485 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:20:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TAJlcf024777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TAJib8000744; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TAJfb8000727 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A210505CA; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:21:04 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:21:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c30e39$0a1be1b0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <01c501c30e12$bf5dc6a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:47 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Snippage-- I am also considering way down the road of having a TV series on costuming... like on Style TV. But that is a dream right now. Cool dream... showing costume collections from museums, lectures, interviews with stage and film designers. Let's see how my back holds up and maybe it will happen! I would like to see this too- consider that everybody has to eat and everybody needs something to wear, then compare the number of cooking shows to sewing shows- okay; sewing takes longer, but the product also lasts longer than the time it takes to get food to the table and eaten, or even the leftovers.... and yes there are a lot of clothing companies, and there are a lot of restaurants, but still... creativity needs feeding! Rambling thoughts-- Betsy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 06:28:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TASwqa027490 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:28:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TARvcf025283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TARub8004218; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TARrb8004185 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from p912-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.195.150] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19ASL0-0001ZW-00; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:27:51 +1200 Message-ID: <3EAE53AA.1040208@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:27:54 +1200 From: michaela User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Average waist size. References: <3EADA17B.5050503@comcast.net> <009701c30e03$b17e96e0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> In-Reply-To: <009701c30e03$b17e96e0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Heh, in my case I don't think it would have made much difference as I'm very >short-waisted and there's only a scant inch or two between the bottom of my >ribs and the top of my hips. So not a lot to compress. -.-;; > > And I sayy heh to that too;) My ribs are *in* my waist. I have a very long round rib cage, I've had two singing teachers remark on it . It's quite sore actually if I sit on the floor and stretch over to my toes I have to lift up then I wind up almost hooking hte ribs over the hip bones;) As for costuming it's really annoying as it means I *can't* lace the excess fat away;) michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 07:18:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TBI7qa027607 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TBFtcf027721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TBFsFo021399; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f25.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TBFpFo021356 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:15:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:15:46 -0700 Received: from 62.253.32.5 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:15:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.253.32.5] X-Originating-Email: [jennierussell@hotmail.com] From: "jennie russell" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:15:45 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2003 11:15:46.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE3DB000:01C30E40] Subject: [h-cost] Re: 17th century shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am in the UK, but mail order overseas would be fine too thanks jennie Which country do you live in? Glenda ----- Original Message ----- From: "jennie russell" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] 17th century shoes >hi, >i am looking for a good supplier of 17th century womens shoes, any one know >of anywhere? >thanks >jennie _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 07:44:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TBipqa027655 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:44:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TBe2d1029703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TBNBFo026021; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TBMeFo025618 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030429112233.84005.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:22:33 BST Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:22:33 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th century shoes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In that case I'd suggest Sarah Juniper in the UK: http://www.sarahjuniper.co.uk/ Nicole --- jennie russell wrote: > I am in the UK, but mail order overseas would be fine too > thanks > jennie > > Which country do you live in? > > Glenda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jennie russell" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:28 AM > Subject: [h-cost] 17th century shoes > > > >hi, > >i am looking for a good supplier of 17th century womens shoes, any one > know > >of anywhere? > >thanks > >jennie > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 08:22:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCM0qa027723 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:22:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCKrcf002027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:20:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCKnmx024012; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCKlmx023932 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:20:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp03-023.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.122.23]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F914BE89E for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:20:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3EAE6E90.1070906@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:22:40 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I work at home and I really like that. But I wish there was someone else like me in my neberhood who would like to work with me. I like to make historical clothing for my self and my husband and sometimes for others. But I realized that many people don't like to spend money on reanectment clothing. And rather pay less for costumes of less quality. I don't like to make bad quality costumes. And don't like to work 7 day's a week 24ours a day. Wich I think I schould do if I want to make money. But luckely I don't have to. This year I've been asked by two people to make weddingdresses for them for next year. One normal(a little 16th century inspired but a lot of wedding gowns are) and one "Celtic". I am really looking forward to make these gowns. People like to spend more one a weddinggown and appriciate it more. So I hope I will get more questions for weddingcostumes. I would love to do historical looking gowns from many different century's. What I also like to make are fantasy costumes because everything is allowed. Working with many different materials and using many different technieks. I would love to make some fantasy costumes for a movie or serie. I tried to recreate some from the Lord of the Rings movie and won even third price with an Uruk-hai costume. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/LOTRCostumepics/LOTR.html I have been asked to make theatre costumes but they expected me to work for free. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 08:36:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCarqa027747 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:36:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCZrcf003248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCZqmx000451; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:35:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCZomx000445 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 32-136.tnt-1.york.supernet.com ([64.41.32.136] helo=[64.41.32.236]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AUKq-0003Bf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:35:50 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:34:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Trim store needed... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Since the late, lamented Joy trims closed, I need to get some more wonderful trims. Is there any similar store in New York city?? I'm looking for a tapestry trim that has a dog/hound coursing a deer, but need to find a new play, um trim place . TA Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 08:38:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCc0qa027756 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:38:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCavcf003404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCavmx000941; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TCatmx000933 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup-64.152.160.147.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([64.152.160.147] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AULt-0000s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:36:54 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429072058.040b78d8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:36:34 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: re: [h-cost] Average waist size. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Linda J. Thompson" wrote: >Can anyone else remember when the style was to wear a belt with clothing? >I was raised in the US during the 50's and I can remember if I wore a >skirt or slacks or even shorts (Bermuda of course) they were always very >well tailored and you always wore a belt with them, this was up to the mid >1960"s. It comes and goes with fashion... Most of my clothes from the mid-80's I wore with 3" or wider belts around/above my natural waist. If I wear slacks or jeans without a belt, I always feel like they're going to fall down on me. OTOH, that could be because my waist has always been a size or two smaller than what I need in bottoms to fit my hips, thighs, and butt. (Despite this, the medical-this-is-your-shape calculators all insist I'm an "apple" shape -- tells you something about the garment industry!) >And I can remember wearing a girdle at the ripe age of 12 to give me that >sleek smooth look under some of the skirts and to hold my stockings up. I think that thinking finally disappeared about the mid '70's, during the height of the "burn-your-bra-and-girdle" segment of the Women's Liberation movement. >The end result was smaller waists than what is commonly seen today. At 14 >I weighed 158 lbs., was 5'6" and my figure was 38-24-37. I don't recall >deliberately tightening my belt or anything, it just fit at that size. Figures overall were smaller in the 1950's, as well. I "inherited" a number of patterns from the 1950's and 1960's some years ago. I've pulled a couple of random patterns for comparison, plus went to Simplicity's site to grab the info for a current pattern. Simplicity 3114, 15 cents. I think this one is from the late 1940's? A-line skirt (about knee-length), fitted scoop-necked, double-breasted vest, collared blouse with gathered sleeve cap (gathered into a narrow, buttoned wristband), peplum jacket with peaked lapel. Pattern-back address: Simplicity Pattern Co., Inc./200 Madison Ave./New York City. (Note: this is an _unprinted_ pattern.) Simplicity 3265, 25 cents. Appears to be from the late 1950's (bouffant skirt, camisole bodice, cummerbund, and a flared bolero that only comes down to the point of the bust). Pattern-back address: Simplicity Pattern Co., Inc./200 Madison Avenue/New York, 16, N. Y. Simplicity 6218, 1974, $1.25. Misses blouse and pinafore/jumper. Pattern-back address: Simplicity Pattern Co., Inc./200 Madison Avenue/New York, N. Y. 10016 Vogue 7420, 1989, $7.50. Misses and Women's coat, skirt, and pants. Simplicity 5498, 2003. Misses sundress. Address is not on Webbed "pattern back". The measurements for a Size 12 are as follows: Pattern Bust Waist Hips 3114 30 26 33 3265 30 25 33 6218 34 26.5 36 7420 34 26.5 36 5498 34 26.5 36 This seems to imply that there was at least one shift in sizing during this time period. Since the older patterns have smaller measurements for a size than the newer ones, I'm going to look at the smaller sizes... Size 10: Pattern Bust Waist Hips (lowest size on 3114 is a Size 12) (lowest size on 3265 is a Size 12) 6218 32.5 25 34.5 7420 32.5 25 34.5 5498 32.5 25 34.5 We're about the same waist as the 1950's Simplicity, but the bust and hips are still larger. Let's look at Size 8 on the newer patterns. Pattern Bust Waist Hips 9825 31 24 33 6218 31.5 24 33.5 7420 31.5 24 33.5 5498 31.5 24 33.5 We're at the same hip size, but at a smaller waist size. Now I'm going to check upwards. The two earliest patterns go up to a Size 20; the 1974 Simplicity goes up to a 16, and the 2003 Simplicity goes up to an 18. Size 14 Pattern Bust Waist Hips 3114 32 27 35 3265 32 26 35 6218 36 28 38 7420 36 28 38 5498 36 28 38 Size 16 Pattern Bust Waist Hips 3114 34 28 37 3265 34 28 37 6218 38 30 40 7420 38 30 40 5498 38 30 40 Size 18 Pattern Bust Waist Hips 3114 36 30 39 3265 36 30 39 6218 -- -- -- 7420 40 32 42 5498 40 32 42 Size 20 Pattern Bust Waist Hips 3114 38 32 41 3265 38 32 41 6218 -- -- -- 7420 42 34 44 5498 -- -- -- (BTW, this is a comparison I've wanted to do for a while, so don't think you've put me out or anything...) While this is a fairly small sampling and I've tried to focus on a single pattern company, one might manipulate the numbers to find a possible trend. Based on these numbers and abandoning numerical size for similar-measurements, it looks like in the 1940's and 1950's, waists on smaller figures were actually wider than they are today, busts may have been smaller (an Advance pattern, apparently from the 1950's, which I didn't add to this list, has bust measurements 2" larger than the Simplicity bust measurements from the same era), and hips on larger figures might have been a bit larger than they are today. The difference may simply be that the styles of those periods emphasized the waist, and the waist-hip differential, more than the styles of today. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 09:21:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDLGqa027851 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:21:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDK7cf006535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDK5L2018541; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDK2L2018513 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.249.181.9] (pool181-56.patriot.net [209.249.181.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h3TDK0Ua005049 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:20:01 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:19:31 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember Joy Trim, too! M&J Trimming is the place to go in New York. Also be sure to check up & down the street and around the corner. Many similar stores are located in the same area. While M&J is the favorite, a nearby store might have something else that they don't. -Carol >Hi >Since the late, lamented Joy trims closed, I need to get some more >wonderful trims. Is there any similar store in New York city?? I'm >looking for a tapestry trim that has a dog/hound coursing a deer, >but need to find a new play, um trim place . >TA >Carol >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 09:50:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDo5qa027914 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDlicf008783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDlfL2001982; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDldL2001961 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19298 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:47:39 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-33-100-243.asm.bellsouth.net [67.33.100.243]) by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA15456 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:47:38 -0400 Message-ID: <057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:44:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic > costume, what would be your dream job/career? Where would you work, what is the absolute > best thing you can think of doing? What do you find more exciting- theatre, film, custom-work, re- > enactments? Great questions, Elizabeth! I am new to this list and have been lurking to get the feel of the group. I have very much enjoyed reading your posts! Someone on one of my Yahoo groups (also an awesome bunch) recommended this list to me and I am very glad she did. Regarding the questions... I currently have an excellent job. I am a consultant/computer programmer so I get to work from home, travel a little and make good money. But I would give it up in an INSTANT to be a historic costume consultant for film or tv. I know it is a pipe dream kind of job, and I don't have any formal education in it (well other than an art history degree which I don't use). I have been studying historic costume (mostly women's court/noble costume) since I was seven. I hate to say it... but that is 30 years ugh. It is my one true love (besides my beloved hubby, of course). I focused on design, types of embellishment, colors etc.... not construction techniques. In the last couple of years, I have concentrated more on period construction, but my seamstress skills are not up to par with my vision. Because of this, I don't bother kidding myself that I could ever be a costumer of the caliber that I would like. I forget the gentleman's name, but he is from Denmark and I found his site a few years ago and was floored. I recently visited it again after his recent post and I am still utterly amazed. One of the reasons I joined the SCA was to have an excuse to make and wear historic garb. Unfortunately, they don't allow me to explore some of my other favorite time periods such as baroque, Georgian, regency, and Edwardian among others. Oh my goodness, look how I have rambled on... Teena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 10:00:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TE0cqa027952 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDwHcf009514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDwGlY007256; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TDwElY007210 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m33.in-tch.com [216.166.191.33]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3TDdtv21913 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EAE8536.651F2118@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:59:18 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In one of those delightfully odd cross-topic moments, an SCA-oriented cooking list I'm on has a thread going about pockets, pocketbooks, and purses, and how modern pockets differ from those known in pre-17th c. Europe. Someone mentioned reading _Jane Eyre_ as a child, and being puzzled by a bit in the book where Jane puts her purse into her pocket, with the implication that it was a larger item. My brain immediately thought of those pairs of pockets from the 18th c., but Jane's 19th c..... Did women and girls still use those pairs of pockets in the 19th c? Or am I completely off-base? --sue, admittedly 19th c-ignorant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 11:03:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF3Cqa028259 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF24cf016224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF22Oq016918; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF1xOq016866 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from susan (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E64926D6F1 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005201c30e60$c0637a60$9debcacf@susan> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> <057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:05:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hum, mine would be to run a shop where you can find all the fabric, trims, patterns, and other what nots you need to make costumes. Oh, and books, lots of books. And with a special doorbell for those middle of the night emergencies. Guess I'd be an enabler? Susan Courney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 11:11:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFBvqa028298 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:11:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF9pcf017151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF9oOq022110; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF9lOq021969 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.145.1044999e (4254) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:09:34 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <145.1044999e.2bdfefae@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:09:34 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Leine construction X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Reconstructinghistory.com has a good article on the Irish leine, but they haven't put the construction notes in yet. Can anyone point me to a site or book that has construction information for a woman's leine? Or can I just take Ye Olde Basic Smock and make the sleeves wider? Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 11:26:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFQgqa028382 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:26:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFPKcf018862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFPJOq004144; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13408.mail.yahoo.com (web13408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TFPGOq004100 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030429152515.83413.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:25:15 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:25:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: quilted fabric To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe one reason people think one can't quilt on a regular sewing machine is that it helps to have something called a "walking foot" -- a foot that feeds the top layer along at the same speed as the bottom layer, to keep the layers from getting "all wonky", as someone here has already said. The walking foot attachment for my Kenmore wasn't that expensive. Lots of pinning will probably also help... -- Mara __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 11:45:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFjKqa028461 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:45:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFiBcf021308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFiAKl017682; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe29.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TFi7Kl017612 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:44:01 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe29.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:44:01 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:43:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2003 15:44:01.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[281BF600:01C30E66] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe matka is similar in appearance to silk noil. Isn't matka the kind that hasn't had the natural silk "substances" washed out? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill > Matka is a very loose basket weave cloth. Looks very 'homespun' but > has nice drape. > > > On Monday, April 28, 2003, at 06:04 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Ouch! It is pretty highly priced, even after a Canadian/US conversion. > > Looks like nice stuff though--I might have to get some, if my tax > > refund > > every comes....;-D > > Scrolling down that same page, I see some silks, as well. I'm not > > interested in the silk noile, but what is silk "matka?" > > --sue, who has *no doubt* that Drea is an evil temptress! > > > > Drea Leed wrote: > >> > >> Guys, > >> > >> A friend tipped me off to a site selling really heavy duty pure linen > >> twill fabric. The price is rather painful, but the prices are > >> Canadian; > >> and the fabric, when I saw it, was the spitting image of the twill > >> used > >> for the Effigy Corset of Queen Elizabeth. > >> > >> http://www.berlinembroidery.com/fabrics.htm#linentwill > >> > >> Thought some of youse 16th c. guys would be interested, too. > >> > >> Drea > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 12:06:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TG6gqa028547 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:06:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TG5Pcf023853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TG5O2Z003716; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TG5L2Z003679 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11045 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2003 16:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2003 16:05:20 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52453.162.119.64.111.1051632320.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? From: To: In-Reply-To: <005201c30e60$c0637a60$9debcacf@susan> References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> <057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <005201c30e60$c0637a60$9debcacf@susan> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not my dream career but I think it could be fun...... A friend once told me that I should design wedding dresses. They could be historical-based or just have elements of historical costume in them. They could be made of natural fibers (not this acetate crap) and be tasteful (no polyester lace from hell). Offering the underpinnings would be a good addition. I personally plan to make a Victorian bustle dress c. 1870 when I get married. There may be other people who would want this, too. The only reason I didn't consider this career more seriously was because people can be so picky. But they are willing to spend way more money on a wedding dress than just on a period costume (go figure!) so from a financial standpoint, it should be lucrative. Good luck with whatever you do! Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 12:21:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGLcqa028581 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGJ5cf025250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGJ32Z013946; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80110.mail.yahoo.com (web80110.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TGIv2Z013866 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030429161857.40914.qmail@web80110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:18:57 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:18:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304291544.h3TFiaKm018004@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolute dream (and since it's a dream, it doesn't have to be based in reality, right?): Working in the costume shop of a major Hollywood studio during the 1930s, preferably as an assistant designer (even I don't have enough ego to put myself on a par with designers like Adrian ). Steady paycheck, creative people to work with, no real pinching pennies, and access to the kinds of craftspeople you need to turn out really marvelous stuff. Reality-based dream: Pretty much what I'm doing now (some historical costuming, some theatrical costuming, some research, etc.), but just a bit more time in which to do it. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 12:29:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGTHqa028597 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:29:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGR7cf026112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGR42Z019653; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGR12Z019554 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.18b.195788f5 (4312) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:26:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <18b.195788f5.2be001bf@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:26:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/28/2003 9:55:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic > costume, what would be your dream job/career? I suppose that mine doesn't exactly fall under this category... But this is what I want to do when I grow up. I want to be a portrait photographer. Specializing in recreating old photos and paintings with modern people. I envision this including overseeing the costuming, hair, make-up and backdrops. Then creating the right final touches using a series of techniques in both the darkroom and with my computer. (And no, I am not talking about anything even remotely close to those places you see in Amusement parks.) Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 12:40:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGeAqa028650 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:40:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGd7cf027431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGd62Z028581; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGd22Z028528 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 849 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2003 16:39:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([209.63.51.23]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 29 Apr 2003 16:39:01 -0000 Message-ID: <008301c30e6d$d7d8a730$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:39:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some online sources for trim as well (TLBarnes and Calontir trim come to mind)- I think you mean the trim that comes in white or black backgrounds? Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message ----- From: "fastusminimus" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:34 AM Subject: [h-cost] Trim store needed... > Hi > Since the late, lamented Joy trims closed, I need to get some more > wonderful trims. Is there any similar store in New York city?? I'm > looking for a tapestry trim that has a dog/hound coursing a deer, but > need to find a new play, um trim place . > TA > Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 12:45:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGjtqa028674 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGiQcf028009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGiO2Z002622; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:44:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGiJ2Z002510 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.168.1dde8c2f (16930) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:43:57 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <168.1dde8c2f.2be005cd@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:43:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/29/2003 12:24:02 AM Central Standard Time, sarah@elizabethanlady.com writes: > >>If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to > >>historic > >>costume, what would be your dream job/career? > > What I do now, except for lots, and lots of money. ;) I have this > fantasy of winning the lottery and spending the rest of my life > scouring the globe for extant 16th century clothing to study. Oh, and > cracking open the tombs of historical figures to do facial > reconstruction to see what they actually looked like. Sorta morbid, I > know, but you asked... ;) > Oh man, that's neat. I've been thinking about how cool it would be to start popping open the graves of people whose clothing I'd like to get a look at. Heck, some of the stuff has to be a little intact, right? And the facial reconstruction thing is beyond cool. I know, "Desecration" and all. You know what, if 500 years from now, some textile archeologist wants to dig me up and play with my seams, great! Sarra Wryght http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 12:49:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGnhqa028691 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:49:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGmfcf028526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TGmf2Z005615; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TGmc2Z005515 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWktJSEAEC0+zJzY4BGVHTjiI9ksq1lI4KA==">; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:48:31 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HWXT9XCV; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:48:31 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:46:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... Message-ID: <20030429.124656.-469363.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you don't mind ordering from the web try www.cheeptrims.com. They have such a huge selection of trims and laces that I spend hours just drooling over them. And their prices are reasonable too. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 13:07:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TH7Tqa028737 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:07:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TH6Ocf000720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TH6MvH018494; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TH6DvH018373 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27250 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:25:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:25:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > I believe matka is similar in appearance to silk noil. The matka we have at the store where I work has extremely large threads, rather flattened out in the weave, maybe 2-3mm wide. The tabby/basketweave texture is prominent. Very unlike silk noil, except that both are made from spun (rather than reeled) silk and so are nubbly and fuzzy. I might use it for a modern blazer or something artsy, but not anything historical that I can think of. > Isn't matka the kind that hasn't had the natural silk "substances" > washed out? I believe that would apply to a number of "raw" silks, including tussah. (Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?) But I have handled extremely fine reeled silk that left my hands sticky afterward, which I presume meant it was still full of seracin. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 13:17:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THHrqa028754 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:17:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THH8cf001965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:17:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THH7vH028150; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THH1vH028053 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28824 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:17:01 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-33-100-243.asm.bellsouth.net [67.33.100.243]) by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA30263 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:17:01 -0400 Message-ID: <05a301c30e72$abc6d0e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030429.124656.-469363.3.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:13:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have bought quite a bit from cheeptrims and for the most part their stuff is great. I have had trouble with a couple of things that all came from the same mill so I avoid those trims. You can tell the mill by the first 3 numbers of the item number. The mill I had a problem with was 095. Their prices are really good though! I have found a couple that were identical to that found at Calontir and MJTrim for a LOT less. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... > If you don't mind ordering from the web try www.cheeptrims.com. > They have such a huge selection of trims and laces that I spend hours > just drooling over them. And their prices are reasonable too. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 13:25:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THPTqa028760 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THOPcf002809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THOMvH005666; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe19.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THOJvH005559 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:24:14 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe19.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:24:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:23:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2003 17:24:14.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[27A9A3D0:01C30E74] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What people usually call raw silk is silk noil, and that has the seracin removed. As for the other "raw-not-noil" silks, I think we need an expert on the subject here :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" > > > Isn't matka the kind that hasn't had the natural silk "substances" > > washed out? > > I believe that would apply to a number of "raw" silks, including tussah. > (Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?) But I have handled extremely fine > reeled silk that left my hands sticky afterward, which I presume meant it > was still full of seracin. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 13:31:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THVEqa028782 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:31:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THTOcf003420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:29:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THTNvH009381; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THTJvH009320 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:29:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3THTGp06127.; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:29:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:29:16 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:29:08 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3THTJvH009320 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> Someone mentioned reading _Jane Eyre_ as a child, and being puzzled >by a bit in the book where Jane puts her purse into her pocket, with the >implication that it was a larger item. Do you mean the purse was large? Is this a confusion caused by the American use of "purse" for a handbag? I imagine Jane Eyre's purse as being a little knitted bag for holding coins. > My brain immediately thought of those pairs of pockets from the 18th c., >but Jane's 19th c.....Did women and girls still use those pairs of pockets in >the 19th c? Or am I completely off-base? I'm no 19th century expert, but I thought big pockets went out with the slimline Regency dresses, to be replaced by the "reticule" or handbag. I suppose when full skirts came back into fashion, a discreet pocket for money and a handkerchief was once more possible? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 13:51:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THplqa028831 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:51:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THnFcf005786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:49:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THn3vH025256; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:49:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from remt27.cluster1.charter.net (remt27.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3THmxvH025020 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.196.130.120] (HELO laptop) by remt27.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 15537336 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:48:53 -0400 Message-ID: <006c01c30e77$8df8dd60$7882c418@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:48:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] corded corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I want to experiment with a corded Eliz. corset. Would I need to make channels and "bone" around the whole body, or do I only need to put in some places, like most boned corsets? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 14:14:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIExqa028879 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:14:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TICPcf008435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TICOZc014576; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIBmZe014078 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4006L4AJMRC@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:06:48 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Leine construction In-reply-to: <145.1044999e.2bdfefae@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429104842.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:09 AM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Reconstructinghistory.com has a good article on the Irish leine, but they >haven't put the construction notes in yet. Can anyone point me to a site or >book that has construction information for a woman's leine? Or can I just >take Ye Olde Basic Smock and make the sleeves wider? > >Leah Hi Leah The leine is really easy to do. However, ask yourself first if you want the huge sleeves with drawstring that is not period but very common at faires, or if you want to just make large sleeves. Otherwise, construction is very simple. The actual width of the leine in the original woodcuts and images is the length from your shoulder to your wrist. However, modern re-enactors at faire like the drawstring thing (which is not period) to draw the sleeves out of the way especially on hot summer days. If you decide for the drawstring, then use the full width of 45" wide material for the sleeves. Otherwise the sleeves are pretty much long rectangles (from shoulder to floor in length) with curves at the bottom sides, and sewn together (raw edges) across at the top. If you are doing drawstrings, then put tape or trim along the top, and sew in two channels for the drawstrings. The sleeves are attached onto the body pretty much like chemise sleeves. The tricky part is how they attach at the armhole. You can either add in gussets for the armpit, or just make the opening wider. Either works. The body is the length from the shoulder to the floor and uses the full width of material at the most (you can use less) for both front and back, and then belted up high to have extra material at the waist. Make a neck opening by cutting a small curve and a slit. You can bind the neck with trim or bias tape. Some people will use a yoke at the neck area, but that is optional. Some people prefer to shorten the garment. Your call really especially if you plan to wear it under a skirt. Men's should be floor length and belted up. These are the basics for a re-enactors version, not historically accurate. Someday I will post clearer directions on my website with drawings, but that will be a month or two. I also recreated a more accurate way of creating the garments seen on Irish chiefs and bards in some woodcuts, but that is a bit more detailed and does take 20+ yards of normal loom width linen just for the leine alone (not the ionar/doublet/jacket). hth, and if I wasn't clear on something just ask and I can clarify. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 14:24:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIOwqa028914 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:24:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TINicf009457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:23:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TINhZc022761; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TINdZc022578 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:23:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A00DBD501A0; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:10:21 -0400 Message-ID: <003a01c30e7c$e27d4560$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3EAE8536.651F2118@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:26:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of my dresses of the period (mid century)have slits where you might be looking for a pocket; I also have a petticoat with big patch type pockets of the same time period. These appear to be original to the petticoat by color and fabric. If memory serves me well, doesn't "A tisket, a tasket, a green and yellow basket..." come from the first quarter of the Nineteenth Century? As a child I always wondered how you could loose a pocket ! I also have a single utilitarian pocket of the Eighteenth century style, that given the other items it came with, I had always assumed that it was from about 1830. There is also another petticoat that has a tidy pocket spaced about 15" above the hem.(For ready use when traveling?...or maybe a pickpocket?) I love discovering items that have variances to the norm. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:59 AM Subject: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... > In one of those delightfully odd cross-topic moments, an SCA-oriented > cooking list I'm on has a thread going about pockets, pocketbooks, and > purses, and how modern pockets differ from those known in pre-17th c. > Europe. > Someone mentioned reading _Jane Eyre_ as a child, and being puzzled by a > bit in the book where Jane puts her purse into her pocket, with the > implication that it was a larger item. My brain immediately thought of > those pairs of pockets from the 18th c., but Jane's 19th c..... > Did women and girls still use those pairs of pockets in the 19th c? Or > am I completely off-base? > --sue, admittedly 19th c-ignorant > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 14:29:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TITWqa028925 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:29:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIP5dt009633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIBoZc014111; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIBmZc014078 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4006L4AJMRC@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:48:29 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <18b.195788f5.2be001bf@aol.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429103747.00af6368@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:26 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I want to be a portrait photographer. Specializing in recreating old photos >and paintings with modern people. I envision this including overseeing the >costuming, hair, make-up and backdrops. Then creating the right final >touches using a series of techniques in both the darkroom and with my >computer. (And no, I am not talking about anything even remotely close to >those places you see in Amusement parks.) > >Kit Kit There was an old issue of Renaissance magazine, #16 (still available on backorder) that showed the exact portraits you were talking about done by Lorenzo Poccianti. Beautiful images and I thought they were very nicely done with regards to costume and layout. It inspired me to try that myself, but while I am decent at Photoshop I am not that good in the darkroom. I wish I could find my copy, but it is still packed away somewhere. If he can do so, you could do so. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 14:31:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIV4qa028933 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:31:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TITtcf010164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TITtZc027478; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:29:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TITpZc027427 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007P9BDO25@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:13:50 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <3EAE6E90.1070906@kabelfoon.nl> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:22 PM 4/29/2003 +0200, you wrote: >I have been asked to make theatre costumes but they expected me to work >for free. Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? That is one thing I have seen over and over in the ren faire groups I work with, that the ladies are to dress everyone in their guild for free. Don't they realize that our abilities take time to master and that our time is as valuable as theirs? Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are seamstresses/tailors expected to work for free, or even cheap? Sorry, its a frustration of mine in trying to create a business. I didn't work for free as an accountant, yet people expect me to work for free as a costumer. And Deredere (I love your name btw), I really love the costumes you created. I have seen your pics before and just drool at your creativity. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 14:31:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIVIqa028936 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:31:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIUFcf010216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIUEZc027685; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:30:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TITpZe027427 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:29:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007P9BDO25@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:22:55 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111528.00af6368@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:44 AM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >In the last couple of years, I have concentrated >more on period construction, but my seamstress skills are not up to par with >my vision. Because of this, I don't bother kidding myself that I could ever >be a costumer of the caliber that I would like. Hi Teena, I realized that I am not the high caliber costumer I want to be. But after dealing with some of the guest lecturers at our local fiber arts guild I am with, and hearing their stories, what they told us it takes to become a high caliber artist is to practice and practice and practice. A few of the quilt artists showed their earlier works, and boy were they ... bad and boring! But after many years of DOING and practicing and learning new techniques, they have become high quality master artists that can command great prices for their works. I am going to join those types of people. You can to. As Lalah loves to add... Never give up, Never surrender. I love that tagline. :-) Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 14:49:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TInBqa029029 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:49:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIlxcf012011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIlwZc010636; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIltZc010595 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ripco.com (tcr194.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.194]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h3TIntt25369 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:49:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3EAEC8C9.2070000@ripco.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:47:37 -0500 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] corded corset References: <200304291800.h3TI0lZe005528@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I want to experiment with a corded Eliz. corset. Would I need to make > channels and "bone" around the whole body, or do I only need to put in some > places, like most boned corsets? There are some awesome links off Drea's site (::waving HI to Drea::) for these kinds, including a dress diary for someone who made a corded 'effigy' corset. I was totally inspired by this, as well as Drea's 'Well-Dressed Peasant" panel, and a corded corset and Flemish gown are definitely on my list of projects for this year. I see you're local to Bristol - contact me off-list and maybe we can work together on them. I'm in Chicago. And hello to all the big red H's from CostumeCon - you finally sucked me in. Wendy Z Wench Wear Costumes Minstrosity _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 14:56:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIuvqa029055 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TItncf012743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TItm2E016374; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:55:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TIti2E016314 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-15-12.o1.jps.net ([216.119.15.12] helo=w7m1l6) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AaGV-0001X6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:55:43 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c30e80$e4e4aba0$0c0f77d8@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:55:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hear you Kimiko. For years I "helped out" with a number of Theater groups and other living history groups until I hit sewing burn out. So I told everyone that from now on in I would work for only two reasons, Money or Satisfaction. If I am not getting one or the other I am not doing it. Both is nice, but one or the other. Since then I have been told by a number of "friends" how selfish I am. Tells you what sort of friends they are. But now I have time to sew for my wife and son. That is pure satisfaction. Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? > At 02:22 PM 4/29/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >I have been asked to make theatre costumes but they expected me to work > >for free. > > > Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? That > is one thing I have seen over and over in the ren faire groups I work with, > that the ladies are to dress everyone in their guild for free. Don't they > realize that our abilities take time to master and that our time is as > valuable as theirs? > > Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work > for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are seamstresses/tailors > expected to work for free, or even cheap? > > Sorry, its a frustration of mine in trying to create a business. I didn't > work for free as an accountant, yet people expect me to work for free as a > costumer. > > And Deredere (I love your name btw), I really love the costumes you > created. I have seen your pics before and just drool at your creativity. > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:06:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ6wqa029121 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ5qcf013760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ5p2E023739; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ5l2E023695 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3TJ53C09486 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:05:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > > Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? That > is one thing I have seen over and over in the ren faire groups I work with, > that the ladies are to dress everyone in their guild for free. Don't they > realize that our abilities take time to master and that our time is as > valuable as theirs? > > Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work > for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are seamstresses/tailors > expected to work for free, or even cheap? Ren faires run on free labor. They usually expect musicians to play for free as well, even though we have to provide our own costumes and deal with wear and tear on the instruments. Wooden instruments are expensive and do not deal with outdoor conditions well. Nevermind all the years of practice it takes to become competent. Which is why you usually get a lot of so-so musicians and one or two really good ones. The good ones are being paid. I made a decision not to "pay to play" about 10 years ago. The only exception has been Dickens Fair, and that was mostly because we came up with a show idea we wanted to crash test before taking it out on the road. I don't get paid to play for morris, but they *do* buy me beer. And when we do paying gigs, there's a portion of money set aside for the musicians. The previous team I played for did neither of those things, so I decided to go elsewhere. After all, I can make money busking on the street corner, so I'd better have some incentive if they want me to play for free. There's an attitude among certain ren fair folk that it's mercenary to expect to get paid. "But we're not getting paid either!" Right, but I can make more money on the street corner by myself than you guys apparently can negotiate for, so... I personally think it's shameful that the highly skilled personel are the ones least likely to get paid, and *asking* to be paid for your work is treated like crass behavior. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:08:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ8oqa029126 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:08:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ7acf013939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:07:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ7Z2E024974; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:07:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJ7W2E024857 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA5716720186; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:54:15 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01c30e83$042f01c0$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth><5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> <003a01c30e80$e4e4aba0$0c0f77d8@w7m1l6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:10:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hear!hear! Stephen. Way to go. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? > I hear you Kimiko. > > For years I "helped out" with a number of Theater groups and other living > history groups until I hit sewing burn out. So I told everyone that from > now on in I would work for only two reasons, Money or Satisfaction. If I am > not getting one or the other I am not doing it. Both is nice, but one or > the other. Since then I have been told by a number of "friends" how selfish > I am. Tells you what sort of friends they are. But now I have time to sew > for my wife and son. That is pure satisfaction. > > Stephen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kimiko Small" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? > > > > At 02:22 PM 4/29/2003 +0200, you wrote: > > >I have been asked to make theatre costumes but they expected me to work > > >for free. > > > > > > Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? > That > > is one thing I have seen over and over in the ren faire groups I work > with, > > that the ladies are to dress everyone in their guild for free. Don't they > > realize that our abilities take time to master and that our time is as > > valuable as theirs? > > > > Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work > > for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are > seamstresses/tailors > > expected to work for free, or even cheap? > > > > Sorry, its a frustration of mine in trying to create a business. I didn't > > work for free as an accountant, yet people expect me to work for free as a > > costumer. > > > > And Deredere (I love your name btw), I really love the costumes you > > created. I have seen your pics before and just drool at your creativity. > > > > Kimiko > > > > > > > > Kimiko Small > > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:26:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJQNqa029161 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJPGcf015871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJPE2E009311; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJPA2E009166 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE791B80198; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:11:53 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c30e85$7ac86ae0$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:28:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, around here, the doctors, nurses and school teachers are going on strike, and boy! does it make the jqpublic Mad! They are supposed to give their all, too, and never complain about the pay or mal-practice prices they must pay up front to work. I think it is time for costumers to get their just desserts, also! I've been there and done that in a 60 hr week for far too long. Be-speak work deserves more than a bouquet of flowers or a theater ticket. Freebee is as Freebee Does. I have had more fun these last few months by choosing my projects. Since I have been 'playing hard to get" it is amazing how gracious my would be customers have become re their expectations and recompense to my expectations. I am beginning to think that Costuming might become fun again. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? > At 02:22 PM 4/29/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >I have been asked to make theatre costumes but they expected me to work > >for free. > > > Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? That > is one thing I have seen over and over in the ren faire groups I work with, > that the ladies are to dress everyone in their guild for free. Don't they > realize that our abilities take time to master and that our time is as > valuable as theirs? > > Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work > for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are seamstresses/tailors > expected to work for free, or even cheap? > > Sorry, its a frustration of mine in trying to create a business. I didn't > work for free as an accountant, yet people expect me to work for free as a > costumer. > > And Deredere (I love your name btw), I really love the costumes you > created. I have seen your pics before and just drool at your creativity. > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:32:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJWQqa029174 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:32:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJUtcf016477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJUn2E013745; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJUg2E013636 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3TJUfp09311.; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:30:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:30:40 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:30:20 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 182 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3TJUg2E013636 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: >I think the Victorians were well aware of the dangers. Enough so that, I >can think of several Victorian novels where the woman, or her husband, >expresses relief after the birth that the woman has been spared >death. This without any unusual complications/problems having been >mentioned. Of course a lot of this was down to a lack of understanding of the mechanism of infection. Septicaemia must have seemed a totally unpredictable hazard. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:38:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJcrqa029184 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJbkcf017263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJbj2E019294; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJbh2E019261 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:37:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE40065REITVF@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:19:57 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <003a01c30e80$e4e4aba0$0c0f77d8@w7m1l6> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429121515.02c7e220@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I understand you Stephen. Money or Satisfaction... I like that. And friends who think it is selfish, would they feel the same if the tables were turned? I doubt it. They are just upset the free ride is over. And sewing for your family really IS satisfaction. I feel the same way. Even if my little one is too young to appreciate the outfits I make for him. At least my hubby appreciates my work. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:42:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJgqqa029195 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:42:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJfncf017814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJfm2E022872; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJfl2E022859 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:41:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007FLEPK5F@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:36:48 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <001801c30e85$7ac86ae0$685183d1@rmitchellras> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429123631.02c7c060@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:28 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I am beginning to think that Costuming might become fun again. >Kathleen Thank you for giving me hope. :-) Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:44:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJiUqa029204 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:44:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJcCcf017346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJcB2E019713; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJbh2G019261 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE40065REITVF@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:32:44 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429122030.02c7c060@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hear you Lee on this too. My husband is a drummer by passion, and the money he puts into his drum collection is astounding. We also used to do Scottish country dancing, and we got paid a little for this, usually outside of faires. When we got paid, we paid the musicians half of whatever we got, because you can't dance without the musicians. It is sad to see so many musicians gone from the faire circuit because of lack of funds. I also know of some guilds who left faires to join the Scottish games, because they got paid good money at Scottish games. I don't blame you going where the money is, because after awhile kudos just doesn't pay for the headaches. And that is one of the reasons I quit faire, among others. And why I quit sewing for so many years. I was tired of doing things for the expectation that it would be free. If it wasn't that my passion for costumes and sewing was fired up again recently, I don't think I would have gone back to faire. At least creating and wearing my garb (and my family's) at faire and creating garb for paying clients will help me hone my craft. But people need to realize that you get what you pay (or don't pay) for. I may turn to creating dresses for weddings on a regular basis, but I know from an experienced wedding seamstress that there are headaches in that field too... and according to her, some of those headaches just aren't worth the money. She now sews for herself and that's all. Sorry for bringing in the bad side of things... but to evaluate costuming as a business it has helped me to know there are bad sides, what they are specifically, and figure out if it is worth it to me to do this. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 15:58:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJw9qa029263 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJuqcf019535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJupag005052; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:56:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TJulag004995 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:56:45 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:56:39 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] a costumer's dream career X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, Stephen and Lee; you took the words right out of my mouth! I finally found the money vs satisfaction balance a few years ago. I also found teaching others to sew, instead of just sewing for them, very satisfactory. That is probably what kept me going as long as I did, his will be my 25th year participating in our local faire (for most of those years it was a not-for-profit faire so at least all of us working for nothing felt there was some benefit going somewhere). I am not sure what exactly I would choose in costuming for a dream career but I know I would like satisfaction from it first, and then enough money to at least pay the bills, and have an occasional trip over the pond to do research :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 16:05:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TK5sqa029296 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:05:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TK4ccf020489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TK4aag011617; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f116.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TK4Tag011442 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:04:23 -0700 Received: from 146.126.51.51 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:04:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [146.126.51.51] X-Originating-Email: [dminmin@hotmail.com] From: "deborah minyard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:04:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2003 20:04:23.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[87808B50:01C30E8A] Subject: [h-cost] Re:Leine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Debbie Minyard > >Message: 2 >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:06:48 -0700 >From: Kimiko Small >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Leine construction >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429104842.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >At 11:09 AM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Reconstructinghistory.com has a good article on the Irish leine, but they > >haven't put the construction notes in yet. Can anyone point me to a site >or > >book that has construction information for a woman's leine? Or can I >just > >take Ye Olde Basic Smock and make the sleeves wider? > > > >Leah > > There is an article in an old Tornaments Illuminated (an SCA magazine) on constructing Leines I believe it does not use the drawstring. You can try the TI link off the www.sca.org site I think it was spring 2000. Maybe you can get a copy Maddalena _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 16:27:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKRHqa029350 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:27:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKQ8cf023210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKQ7ag029809; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKQ3ag029681 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.15.101b1b65 (17377) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:25:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <15.101b1b65.2be039c4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:25:40 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/29/2003 11:12:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > Kit > > There was an old issue of Renaissance magazine, #16 (still available on > backorder) that showed the exact portraits you were talking about done by > Lorenzo Poccianti. Beautiful images and I thought they were very nicely > done with regards to costume and layout. It inspired me to try that myself, > > but while I am decent at Photoshop I am not that good in the darkroom. I > wish I could find my copy, but it is still packed away somewhere. > > If he can do so, you could do so. > > Kimiko Kimiko, I actually have the magazine. It was really interesting, (although at that point in time, kind of disappointing, because I thought I was the only person in the world who had thought of that.) I found Lorenzo Poccianti was not actually interested in all the costuming and such, I believe that is why portraits aren't quiet right. Anyway, I figure if it was only between him and me in the world (which it isn't) I would still do better than him, since he charges an outrageous amount of money. Ugh! :) Anyway, it was just a dream now back to looking for a job to be someone's lacky. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 16:43:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKh8qa029418 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:43:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKficf024794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKfgag012167; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TKfcag012111 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-18-39.o1.jps.net ([216.119.18.39] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Abuz-0002EG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:41:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:20:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <168.1dde8c2f.2be005cd@aol.com> Message-Id: <0C0ED901-7A80-11D7-8913-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Oh man, that's neat. I've been thinking about how cool it would be to > start > popping open the graves of people whose clothing I'd like to get a > look at. > Heck, some of the stuff has to be a little intact, right? And the > facial > reconstruction thing is beyond cool. I know, "Desecration" and all. > You know > what, if 500 years from now, some textile archeologist wants to dig me > up and > play with my seams, great! Heya Sarra! I feel the same way. I want to donate my grave to archeologists 500 years from now so they can have fun studying me and my clothes from the early part of the 21st century. It's not desecration if you've got permission, right? ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:03:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL3pqa029499 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:03:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL2bcf026727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL2a5q027623; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL2U5q027528 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A88BAD10064; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:03:07 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8623200238; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:02:26 -0500 Message-ID: <007a01c30e92$7779f040$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000b01c30e39$0a1be1b0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:01:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Betsy for the encouragement. I have been thinking about this for a year. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:04:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL4Pqa029505 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:04:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL3Ocf026790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL3M5q028204; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80106.mail.yahoo.com (web80106.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TL3J5q028166 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030429210313.28556.qmail@web80106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:03:13 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304291800.h3TI0lZd005528@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit wrote: <> Kit-- Talk to Stephen ("Jakob"), as he does this for a "living" (along with some more commercial portrait photography). Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:06:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL6bqa029513 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:06:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL5Hcf026956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:05:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL5H5q029652; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:05:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL5E5q029600 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19733 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:05:13 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-33-100-243.asm.bellsouth.net [67.33.100.243]) by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA12252 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:05:12 -0400 Message-ID: <05cf01c30e92$8bfeede0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0C0ED901-7A80-11D7-8913-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:01:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, Sarah... here is what you should do... Donate your grave to archeologists 500 years from now... .but be buried in historic garb! Now wouldn't that throw a wrench in the works? Or perhaps a wench, depending on the outfit. ;-) Teena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? > > Oh man, that's neat. I've been thinking about how cool it would be to > > start > > popping open the graves of people whose clothing I'd like to get a > > look at. > > Heck, some of the stuff has to be a little intact, right? And the > > facial > > reconstruction thing is beyond cool. I know, "Desecration" and all. > > You know > > what, if 500 years from now, some textile archeologist wants to dig me > > up and > > play with my seams, great! > > Heya Sarra! > > I feel the same way. I want to donate my grave to archeologists 500 > years from now so they can have fun studying me and my clothes from the > early part of the 21st century. It's not desecration if you've got > permission, right? ;) > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:06:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL6tqa029517 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:06:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL3icf026829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL3h5q028433; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop2b.ripco.com (root@pop2b.ripco.com [209.100.227.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL3R5q028268 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ripco.com (tcr136.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.136]) by pop2b.ripco.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h3TL5PN03551 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:05:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3EAEE88C.1070508@ripco.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:03:08 -0500 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2G019874@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] RE: play for pay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm a musician on the faire circuit, and I don't play for free. You get what you pay for, and if you're not willing to pay, you won't get quality work. (I've seen some acts that play for free, and I think they overcharge). It's amazing to me that people still ask us "You get paid for this?". Like the fact that we practice all year round, once a week together and more often on our own, have years of training, have to provide our own costumes and instruments, etc. doesn't count. We did play some for free when we were staring out, or if it's a charity event we want to contribute to, but not any more. "Mone or Satisfaction" is about it - though sometimes "Publicity" is good enough. Only Sometimes. Same thing for sewing - I'll sew the odd button or put up a hem for a friend, but everything else is charged. If you don't want to pay me, go to a tailor at a dry-cleaner and ask them - they will laugh at you. Not to mention the specialized research and practice that historicals require. I do cheat sometimes, but I know that I'm cheating and why. I think it might be because of the large numbers of hobby sewers out there, so people get spoiled. Or maybe the perception that sewing is just "something your mom does" for free. I spent about 20 minutes last week patiently explaining to a young prom-girl that a hand-beaded gown was probably out of her price range, and why. One of the reasons I don't do wedding work anymore is that I ended up with a lot of brides and bridesmaids who expected me to do everything for them for free - the 6:00 AM call on a Sunday asking me where to buy kilt hose, for example. Even my friends don't get to call me at that hour on a Sunday unless someone is dead. Or the ones who expected me to go to the rehearsal for free "just to make sure everything is OK". Or who changed patterns mid-stream. I have had several want to back out mid-project because of this, and I usually suggest that they visit a bridal shop and ask what they would charge for the same thing. I usually end up with rather sheepish brides. Wendy Z Wendy Wear Costumes Minstrosity _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:10:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLA4qa029525 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:10:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL8rcf027313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL8q5q002433; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TL8n5q002391 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA0611BA0030; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:09:26 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9E011FB02A8; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:08:48 -0500 Message-ID: <008101c30e93$5b3b4c20$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <3EAE6E90.1070906@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:07:34 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere, One thing I read in an enterpeurer (sp) magazine a while back is that anyone who owns their own business... if you own your own business you work it 24 hours a day seven days a week. Even when you are off with your family, you are still thinking of business. I can personally tell you that even when we have been out of town, we end up finding something costume related to do. Luckily I have a husband who doesn't mind. He is a history lover too. So while I am enjoying the costumes, he is enjoying the history. Swimteam events... well everyone is wearing swimsuits! Or we talk about what everyone is wearing. I just can't get away from it. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:13:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLDRqa029536 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:13:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLCGcf027788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:12:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLCF5q004983; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLCC5q004885 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.16a.1de06628 (16930) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:12:01 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <16a.1de06628.2be044a1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:12:01 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/29/2003 3:45:00 PM Central Standard Time, sarah@elizabethanlady.com writes: > I feel the same way. I want to donate my grave to archeologists 500 > years from now so they can have fun studying me and my clothes from the > early part of the 21st century. It's not desecration if you've got > permission, right? ;) > See? We don't mind, so I bet Jane Seymour doesn't mind. Somebody get me a crowbar... Sarra Wryght http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:17:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLHIqa029571 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLFlcf028175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLFk5q007572; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLFf5q007509 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABA3B2C0064; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:16:19 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB7D1D200100; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:15:41 -0500 Message-ID: <008c01c30e94$51290fa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> <057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> <005201c30e60$c0637a60$9debcacf@susan> <52453.162.119.64.111.1051632320.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:14:23 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana, A lot of wedding gowns are historically based. A lot of the gowns for the past few years have been based off of 1950s gowns. There are two successful bridal designers (guys) that use a lot of vintage embellishments. I can't recall their names but I see them on Style TV all the time. Their gowns are beautiful! If it helps, I hear frequently from brides wanting inspiration for their gowns or bridesmaids. Occasionally, I hear from mothers-of-the-brides wanting something for a historically based wedding. So there is a market! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:25:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLP1qa029591 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLMrcf029026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLMp5q013268; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80104.mail.yahoo.com (web80104.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TLMl5q013210 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:22:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030429212247.44930.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:22:47 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:22:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko wrote: <> Because like photographers (who are also usually expected to supply tons of free photographs to people just for allowing the photographer to take their picture), everybody and their mother is a costumer. My own guess: the basic skills in both areas (clothing/costume construction and photography) are relatively simple, and most people can master operating a sewing machine or a camera. Unlike programming, which if you don't know what you're doing, it doesn't work, you can manage to turn out a photograph, a piece of clothing, or a costume. It might be cr*p, but it can be done. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA "Of course I recognize her. Who else would wear ruby slippers with those socks?" Wicked Witch "Wizard of Oz", Act 1, Scene 7 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:30:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLUPqa029622 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLTDcf029716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLTC5q018041; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLT85q017993 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:29:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEC99DF0066; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:29:45 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEA31D790100; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:29:07 -0500 Message-ID: <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:27:53 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can tell you a little story... I have told you all about my lighting and sound son in high school. A girl that works with him, is a very talented costume maker. I asked her the other day is she going to college to do costumes or lighting and sound? She said, "There is no money in costumes BUT there is plenty in lighting and sound." AND she doesn't have to go to college to do lighting and sound. Right now, these two kids make more money doing lighting and sound while in high school than seasoned professionals in the costume industry. They make in one day what most teenager make in one week. They have a gig in May for one week with a dance studio that pays $1,000 each. Just doing the lighting and sound for dance recitals. These two are in 11th grade. They have been working together for three years. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:35:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLZFqa029643 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:35:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLY5cf000325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLY45q021731; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLY05q021677 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFEEE70006A; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:34:38 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFC71DA00100; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:33:59 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c30e96$e02f8600$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429121515.02c7e220@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:32:45 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim, When I was pregnant or one on my hips throughout most of the 80s, I sewed for all of my sons. They did appreciate it when they were about 4 y.o. They wore the most fashionable clothes when they were little. The appreciation came when I took them out in public and everyone just praised their clothes. I also did a lot of needlework when they were little. Now all that children's needlework is on the walls of their kids rooms. See they did appreciate it! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:38:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLcKqa029660 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:38:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLbFcf000660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLbE5q024197; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLbA5q024147 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0ABE79006A; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:37:47 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A085F560222; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:37:09 -0500 Message-ID: <00af01c30e97$514c20a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429122030.02c7c060@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:35:55 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim, It takes special costumers to do weddings. I have heard the headaches for bridal costumers. So people thrive on the stress. It is important to hear the good side and bad side before making a career change. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:40:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLeGqa029677 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLd3cf000833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:39:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLd25q025691; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TLd05q025666 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:39:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 36980 invoked by uid 1005); 29 Apr 2003 21:38:49 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.12277 secs); 29 Apr 2003 21:38:49 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.12277 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2003 21:38:48 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:38:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-Reply-To: <0C0ED901-7A80-11D7-8913-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Message-ID: <20030429170236.P6671-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I feel the same way. I want to donate my grave to archeologists 500 > years from now so they can have fun studying me and my clothes from the > early part of the 21st century. It's not desecration if you've got > permission, right? ;) Definitely! :) That's why I'm taking a vacuum-sealed box with me into the grave, containing 1000 fabric swatches (labeled with the fabric name and price and fabric width of each), and all my vogue/butterick/simplicity patterns. And pattern catalogs. :> Now, that's immortality... Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:46:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLkIqa029699 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:46:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLeBcf000981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLeA5q026511; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:40:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TLe85q026478 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (HELO AngelaFLazear) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2003 21:40:07 -0000 Message-ID: <012001c30e97$dcd14a60$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear" To: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:39:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Book Score!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I just had to tell someone! I just bought Jacqueline Herald's "Dress in Renaissance Italy" for $75.00 from Moe's in Berkeley. I got an ABE Want match and just about wet my pants when I saw the title. I read it three times before I rushed to call Moe's to be told, I was sure, the book is sold. I tried to remain calm while the man went to look, and he returned and said non-plussed "Yeah, it's right here." Trying not to give myself away, I blurted like an idiot "Woo hoo, I've been looking for it for three years" - To which he replied "I guess I should be charging more." Kicked self promptly. He rang me up for the advertised price (phew), and it arrived yesterday. Happy happy day! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "I have no other but a woman's reason: I think him so, because I think him so." Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:47:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLlGqa029702 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:47:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLjccf001556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLjb5q000791; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLjX5q000742 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:45:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2A21FB6001E; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:46:10 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A27C1DDB0100; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:45:32 -0500 Message-ID: <00cf01c30e98$7d0c93e0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <012001c30e97$dcd14a60$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book Score!! Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:44:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congrads Angela!!!!!!!!!! Have fun with the book!!!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 17:52:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLq5qa029728 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:52:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLotcf002133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:50:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLor5q004648; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TLol5q004497 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:50:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1cb.886532f (16930) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:50:26 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <1cb.886532f.2be04da2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:50:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/29/2003 4:39:44 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > >I feel the same way. I want to donate my grave to archeologists 500 > >years from now so they can have fun studying me and my clothes from the > >early part of the 21st century. It's not desecration if you've got > >permission, right? ;) > > Definitely! :) That's why I'm taking a vacuum-sealed box with me into > the grave, containing 1000 fabric swatches (labeled with the fabric name > and price and fabric width of each), and all my vogue/butterick/simplicity > patterns. And pattern catalogs. :> > > Now, that's immortality... > And the modern couture construction technique books! See what thoughtful costumers we are? I'm sure 16th Century people were the same way. Let's dig up Alcega, he won't mind. I say cremate me, and stick me in a coffee can...don't want my dead people ickiness messing up my grave clothes. More room in the coffin for the artifacts-to-be. Sarra Wryght http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:03:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TM3gqa029767 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:03:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TM2Pcf003735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:02:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TM2NqE014527; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TM2JqE014461 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:02:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24163 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2003 22:02:19 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2003 22:02:19 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-238.sonic.net [209.148.112.238]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3TM2Iu19160 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:02:18 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429145224.00aa74d8@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:13 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> References: <3EAE6E90.1070906@kabelfoon.nl> <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is true of anything connected with the "arts"--writing, dance, music, and the visual arts, which IMO include costuming. Because many people do these things as hobbies, there is a perception (or at least a hope) that everyone is doing them as hobbies. Also, for women there is still a perception that women don't actually need to earn money, or that if they do their work is worth less. So a woman working in the arts gets a double dose of prejudice. You need to do what has already been mentioned--maintain your prices and explain in detail, as often as necessary, why your work is worth them. It's tedious but has to be done. Don't fall for doing free work for "publicity." It's a lot easier and usually more effective to put up a website, distribute flyers, and maybe take out a few inexpensive ads in closely related publications. Fran >Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? >Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work >for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are >seamstresses/tailors expected to work for free, or even cheap? > >Sorry, its a frustration of mine in trying to create a business. I didn't >work for free as an accountant, yet people expect me to work for free as a >costumer. Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:08:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TM8wqa029774 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:08:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TM7pcf004521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TM7oqE018678; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe39.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TM7mqE018561 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:07:43 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe39.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:07:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:06:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2003 22:07:43.0357 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1F95AD0:01C30E9B] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They're lucky. My bf has a bachelor's degree in lighting and sound and just can't seem to find a decent job. He looked and eventually became discouraged and went to work with his cousin making dentures... I'll talk about it though, it might motivate him to start looking again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 5:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume > I can tell you a little story... > > I have told you all about my lighting and sound son in high school. A girl > that works with him, is a very talented costume maker. I asked her the > other day is she going to college to do costumes or lighting and sound? She > said, "There is no money in costumes BUT there is plenty in lighting and > sound." AND she doesn't have to go to college to do lighting and sound. > Right now, these two kids make more money doing lighting and sound while in > high school than seasoned professionals in the costume industry. They make > in one day what most teenager make in one week. They have a gig in May for > one week with a dance studio that pays $1,000 each. Just doing the lighting > and sound for dance recitals. These two are in 11th grade. They have been > working together for three years. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:20:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMKRqa029803 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJNcf005886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJLqE027410; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.ptr.worldaxxs.net.210.18.65.in-addr.arpa [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJGqE027278 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (h-64-105-120-98.NYCMNY83.covad.net [64.105.120.98]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3TMCMGP001656 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:12:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429181000.040b2668@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:18:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Graveyard research? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Reading you gals planning the "time capsules" that you expect to be your coffins, and the idea of throwing wrenches in other folks' research (albeit many years in the future) makes me wonder a bit. If you want to bury a time capsule, bury a time capsule and be done with. Not only will the funeral thing be a problem 'cos you won't be able to supervise it , there's no way of telling whether thirty, fifty, sixty, or eighty years from now we will be burying our dead intact, rather than requiring cremation or complete organ harvesting and organic recycling, or anything like that. Another thing to consider -- since you may be young enough for your parents to have shielded you from your culture's death customs -- is whether or not you would be buried in *clothes* to begin with, and whether your coffin would be one that would be designed to last, or whether it would disintegrate into the soil in a few decades. Brenda, whose culture sews linen shrouds around the washed corpses, builds nail-less pine boxes around them, and at most uses no-longer-readable prayer books and scrolls as "pillows" for the linen-wrapped heads of the dead webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:21:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMLNqa029808 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:21:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMKEcf005984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMKDqE028046; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJtqG027865 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007EDM16H8@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:54:15 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-reply-to: <20030429212247.44930.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:22 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Unlike >programming, which if you don't know what you're >doing, it doesn't work, you can manage to turn out a >photograph, a piece of clothing, or a costume. It >might be cr*p, but it can be done. > >Dawn I think you are onto something here. I have a graphics friend who is in a similar situation of people wanting his skills for free. Anyone can draw, maybe not well, but they can draw so they expect such "arts" to be cheap. But my photography friends expect to make a living at it, and they do make a decent living at it. But they do the work commercially in wedding portraits and aerial photography, not as the artistic work they prefer. I guess it all depends on the market and the client expectations. Hence why wedding dresses can go for thousands, while costumes go for cheap. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:21:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMLZqa029814 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:21:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMKVcf006019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:20:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMKUqE028205; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJuqE027878 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007EDM16H8@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:55:18 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-reply-to: <00a801c30e96$e02f8600$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429145440.02cb8960@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429121515.02c7e220@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:32 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Now >all that children's needlework is on the walls of their kids rooms. See >they did appreciate it! > >Penny Ladnier That is wonderful. It took me years to appreciate my mother's work for me, but now I cherish all the handwork I have of hers. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:21:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMLwqa029818 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:21:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJvcf005958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJuqE027887; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMJtqE027865 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007EDM16H8@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:47:30 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book Score!! In-reply-to: <012001c30e97$dcd14a60$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144602.02c7c060@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:39 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, I just had to tell someone! I just bought Jacqueline Herald's "Dress in >Renaissance Italy" for $75.00 from Moe's in Berkeley. Congratulations on such a score!! Please let us know what the book is like from your perspective. I had never heard of the book before. The review on Amazon.com makes me want the book too. I guess now I need to do an ABE watch. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:26:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMQWqa029824 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:26:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMPTcf006586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMPPqE002155; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMPEqE001910 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:25:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE40072NM9X5F@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:20:14 -0700 From: Kimiko Small In-reply-to: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429145224.00aa74d8@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429151730.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> <3EAE6E90.1070906@kabelfoon.nl> <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Subject: [h-cost] costume business list? (was: A costumer's dream career?) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:03 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >You need to do what has already been mentioned--maintain your prices and >explain in detail, as often as necessary, why your work is worth >them. It's tedious but has to be done. > >Don't fall for doing free work for "publicity." It's a lot easier and >usually more effective to put up a website, distribute flyers, and maybe >take out a few inexpensive ads in closely related publications. This brings me to ponder... is there any mail list you guys know of where costume/sewing businesses can chat about the business side of our work? I would hate to bore you all with the questions I am coming up with. And thanks for the flyers idea. I thought of a brochure, but color prints are expensive for startup. The website is already in the works. I just need to devote more time to it. But housecleaning today comes first. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 18:57:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMvkqa029879 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:57:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMs5cf009402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TMs2qE022183; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20805.mail.yahoo.com (web20805.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3TMrxqE022154 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030429225359.89716.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.67.176.192] by web20805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:53:59 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:53:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Maggie Pierce Secara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304292139.h3TLdP5s026003@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: making a leine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somebody wrote: > >Reconstructinghistory.com has a good article on the Irish leine, but they > >haven't put the construction notes in yet. Can anyone point me to a site >or > >book that has construction information for a woman's leine? Or can I >just > >take Ye Olde Basic Smock and make the sleeves wider? > > > >Leah > > There is an article in an old Tornaments Illuminated (an SCA magazine) on constructing Leines I believe it does not use the drawstring. You can try the TI link off the www.sca.org site I think it was spring 2000. Maybe you can get a copy Maddalena I don't know about Spring 2000, but much longer ago I published an article in Tournaments Illuminated on making a leine. The byline is Mairghread-Ros FitzGarret of Desmond (that's me). Whatever you do, please don't refer to that one. It's interesting, and nicely written but it's wrong. The pleated sleeves are totally undocumented and undocumentable. MaggiRos __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:02:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN2kqa029897 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:02:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN1Ncf010381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:01:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN1MNP027094; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN1JNP027025 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:01:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A120A0C019C; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:48:00 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c30ea3$acea4c00$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com><057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><005201c30e60$c0637a60$9debcacf@susan><52453.162.119.64.111.1051632320.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <008c01c30e94$51290fa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:04:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, you are absolutely right that there is a market, but for some reason, the brides or their mothers have an idea that if it is old, it won't cost as much...especially if the job is done by an 'unknown'. There have been times when I wished that they would bring me a gown from a store they want "tweaked." There is only so much "tweaking" a gown can take: while a new gown under construction has an infinity for the same "tweaking." And the 'historically based' gown will be only as historical as their present day aesthetics can imagine. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? > Diana, > > A lot of wedding gowns are historically based. A lot of the gowns for the > past few years have been based off of 1950s gowns. There are two successful > bridal designers (guys) that use a lot of vintage embellishments. I can't > recall their names but I see them on Style TV all the time. Their gowns are > beautiful! > > If it helps, I hear frequently from brides wanting inspiration for their > gowns or bridesmaids. Occasionally, I hear from mothers-of-the-brides > wanting something for a historically based wedding. > > So there is a market! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:04:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN4eqa029904 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:04:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN3gcf010727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN3gNP028843; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TN3dNP028730 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4006I3O0L9W@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:02:51 -0500 From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3EAF049B.3020701@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sort of living my dream career... Getting to create, and get paid for it. Have people actually appreciate what I do and get paid for it. Have people actually solicit my opinion and get paid for it...... The only thing that would make it better is to get paid MORE for it. :D I have done stage work and while it is great fun and wonderful to sit in the audience and hear people oooh and aaaah over costumes you create and design, I am way over the stress of trying to get things done on an insane time schedule. So I am very happy to make my own time schedule, and drive the people nuts who work for me. :D -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:17:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNH9qa029928 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:17:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNG5cf012289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNG4NP007258; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNG0NP007229 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7D6B890064; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:16:38 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7AF154601EE; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:15:59 -0500 Message-ID: <003d01c30ea5$1fdee580$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com><009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:14:45 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey, They work at all kinds of events. There is a whole groups of these kids, all grandfathered by the former high school kids who have graduated. So they still all work together. Plus, they have a wonderful teacher who got there foot in the door and found them jobs to start with. He taught them how to negotiate their pay and hours. Some of the places they have worked: dance competitions, plays including professional and community theater, concerts like rock and country, theme parks, large churches, think about any event that needs special lighting and sound. Plus, some are wanting to break into the film industry here. If these kids wanted to, they could work every day of the week here. We live in a medium size metro and there is enough work to spread around. The owner of one of the big lighting crews here said "They are not really interested in what shows you have worked, its what equipment you can handle." We are in a "right to work" state, so you don't have to be union to do a job. The union men told my son not to join. He could demand a higher price being non-union. The last show my son worked with the union men, they were asking my teenage son how to do things. To bring this back to a costume perspective... maybe we should have a grandfathering program within the industry. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:28:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNSJqa029954 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:28:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNREcf013487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNRCNP013925; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNR9NP013892 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:27:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA722083001E; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:27:46 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA4C153A027C; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:27:08 -0500 Message-ID: <004a01c30ea6$ae5d0e80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:25:54 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do I live in the dark or what? In my location the arts and history are respected. Musicians, artists, historians, and such are loved and respected. When I lived in New Mexico it was the same. I have seen crafts and art go for big $$$ in the Southwest. I would have assumed that California was very arts driven... am I wrong? Growing up in Mississippi, the arts was on the wayside... a hobby. History was viewed as the history of the area, but was not put on the front burner. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:34:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNYnqa029969 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNXccf013978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNXaNP018029; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNXVNP017982 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.172]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h3TNnAM29363 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:49:10 +1000 Message-ID: <0db701c30ea7$fa7f9b60$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030429112233.84005.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th century shoes Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:31:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's also Mark Beaby, but I'm not sure of his contact details. > In that case I'd suggest Sarah Juniper in the UK: > > http://www.sarahjuniper.co.uk/ > > Nicole > > >hi, > > >i am looking for a good supplier of 17th century womens shoes, any one > > know > > >of anywhere? > > >thanks > > >jennie > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:35:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNZAqa029974 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:35:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNY0cf014016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNXxNP018256; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNXuNP018203 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007DFPE7H8@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:27:35 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume In-reply-to: <003d01c30ea5$1fdee580$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:14 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >To bring this back to a costume perspective... maybe we should have a >grandfathering program within the industry. Do you mean like an apprenticeship? I often think that would be a wonderful way to learn and improve one's skills. However, I keep hearing rumors about how competitive we costumers are and how we don't want to share what we know. I am not like that, and yet I hear it from others in my local faire community. I sure hope this is a misconception, because I would love to learn from the masters in this industry... but living in a non-costume conducive city, the only place I can turn to is places online, like your company. Driving to LA or the Bay all the time is just too far, except for once in awhile. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:36:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNa5qa029977 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:36:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNZ0cf014135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNZ0NP018902; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNYuNP018861 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC46AF30068; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:35:34 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC2016370224; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:34:56 -0500 Message-ID: <005f01c30ea7$c5533dc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com><057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><005201c30e60$c0637a60$9debcacf@susan><52453.162.119.64.111.1051632320.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com><008c01c30e94$51290fa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <002f01c30ea3$acea4c00$675183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:33:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen, Maybe if someone could start with a modern dress and embellish it. I can take about anything and make it look somewhat like another time period or vintage. Just add a little here and there. There are very few really new designs... most of them are based on another time period... a sleeve from here, a skirt from there. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:46:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNkAqa029996 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:46:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNj9cf015035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNj7NP024922; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNj4NP024879 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13EA7AACD for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 27486-09 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-15.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.15]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34FA7AA66 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:44:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <87AA347F-7A9C-11D7-9643-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, it just looks like a basket. But it does resemble Silk Noil -- it's raw or wild silk that hasn't had the sticky stuff washed out. Silk Noil is washed, it's just made of spun fiber, instead of filament. "Noil" means "waste" and it's often made from waste broken off from the more prized longer fibers, or broken cocoons. On Tuesday, April 29, 2003, at 08:43 AM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > I believe matka is similar in appearance to silk noil. > > Isn't matka the kind that hasn't had the natural silk "substances" > washed > out? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Meadows" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 1:23 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill > > >> Matka is a very loose basket weave cloth. Looks very 'homespun' but >> has nice drape. >> >> >> On Monday, April 28, 2003, at 06:04 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >>> Ouch! It is pretty highly priced, even after a Canadian/US >>> conversion. >>> Looks like nice stuff though--I might have to get some, if my tax >>> refund >>> every comes....;-D >>> Scrolling down that same page, I see some silks, as well. I'm not >>> interested in the silk noile, but what is silk "matka?" >>> --sue, who has *no doubt* that Drea is an evil temptress! >>> >>> Drea Leed wrote: >>>> >>>> Guys, >>>> >>>> A friend tipped me off to a site selling really heavy duty pure >>>> linen >>>> twill fabric. The price is rather painful, but the prices are >>>> Canadian; >>>> and the fabric, when I saw it, was the spitting image of the twill >>>> used >>>> for the Effigy Corset of Queen Elizabeth. >>>> >>>> http://www.berlinembroidery.com/fabrics.htm#linentwill >>>> >>>> Thought some of youse 16th c. guys would be interested, too. >>>> >>>> Drea >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:46:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNkeqa030002 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:46:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNjdcf015080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNjdNP025279; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:45:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNj4NP024874 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AEA5AFF0066; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:45:41 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE807020286; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:45:04 -0500 Message-ID: <006a01c30ea9$2f896060$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:43:46 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kim, Actually the fashion industry is very secretive and hoarding their ideas. Almost every costumer I have ever met is a very sharing person. Do you see workshops or symposia in the fashion industry? Not very many. There are shows of their finished products. I have heard that the craft industry is very protective and secretive. Even when I was in college, the fashion design students were very secretive. The costume design students would learn something new and come in class proud as a peacock then teach everyone what they had learned. There is more of a fellowship in the costume industry. Have you ever watched the fashion designers bash online another on Style TV? I have and it is not nice. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 19:50:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNoFqa030007 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:50:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNnCcf015318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:49:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNnBNP027167; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TNnANP027150 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-29-87.o1.jps.net ([216.119.29.87] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AeqS-0002K5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:49:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:45:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <004a01c30ea6$ae5d0e80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday, April 29, 2003, at 04:25 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Do I live in the dark or what? In my location the arts and history are > respected. Musicians, artists, historians, and such are loved and > respected. When I lived in New Mexico it was the same. I have seen > crafts > and art go for big $$$ in the Southwest. I would have assumed that > California was very arts driven... am I wrong? Growing up in > Mississippi, > the arts was on the wayside... a hobby. History was viewed as the > history > of the area, but was not put on the front burner. Hi Penny, I think on a general level, California is extraordinarily arts driven. It is very much a living force in every community I've encountered in the State, but it does tend to get overshadowed by the technology and Hollywood aspects on a national/global level. San Francisco is *the* place for the arts in California, for starters, but it just doesn't end there. As for the historical angle, if you talk to the living history folks who do Gold Rush era stuff, it's definitely popular. Pre-1850's centered groups are harder to find, unless you like SCA events or Ren Faires (and CA has tons of those), but they are out there. It's been my experience that they're just not as well known and you have to go looking for them. On the flip side, California is also the land of the budget cuts for the arts. They're typically the first thing, along with counseling and nursing services to be cut from public schools here in the state. It's outrageous. Looking at how the government wants to cut even more funding for schools (which means even more cutbacks in the arts) I wonder what's going to be left? But somehow, the arts still survive. :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 20:08:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U08Iqa030036 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U070cf016826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U06xfE007996; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U06tfE007955 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:06:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8103E7ABE2 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wonderland.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (jabberwock.wonderland.com [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 27886-06 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-177-15.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.177.15]) by mail.wonderland.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CEF7ABAF for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:06:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume business list? (was: A costumer's dream career?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Heather Meadows To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429151730.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Check out PACC - it's for Custom Clothiers, which can certainly include Costumers. http://www.paccprofessionals.org/ On Tuesday, April 29, 2003, at 03:20 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 03:03 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> You need to do what has already been mentioned--maintain your prices >> and explain in detail, as often as necessary, why your work is worth >> them. It's tedious but has to be done. >> >> Don't fall for doing free work for "publicity." It's a lot easier >> and usually more effective to put up a website, distribute flyers, >> and maybe take out a few inexpensive ads in closely related >> publications. > > > This brings me to ponder... is there any mail list you guys know of > where costume/sewing businesses can chat about the business side of > our work? I would hate to bore you all with the questions I am coming > up with. > > And thanks for the flyers idea. I thought of a brochure, but color > prints are expensive for startup. The website is already in the works. > I just need to devote more time to it. But housecleaning today comes > first. > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 20:20:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0KKqa030064 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:20:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0JIcf017890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0JHfE014865; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:19:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0JFfE014803 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.54.185.111]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE40078FRINTI@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:18:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:18:46 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3EAF1666.6060203@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: corded corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You'll pretty much have to cord the whole thing. Drea's site has good directions pointed to. Also, if you're on Margo's Patterns list, there are a couple of people over there who have sucessfully made corded corsets and wear them happily, who are often very willing to answer questions as you go. Best suggest I've heard of, so far BTW was to get yourself one of those nice *long* afghan crochet hooks to pull the doubled hemp cord through the channels. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 20:21:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0LDqa030071 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:21:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0Jwcf017963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:19:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0JvfE015196; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U0JtfE015169 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430001955.17950.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.208.191] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:19:55 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:19:55 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book Score!! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <012001c30e97$dcd14a60$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela ---I am soooooo jealous!!! I've been trying to get my hands on my own copy for 15 years:( I've been kicking myself for not buying it 20 years ago when the Getty still had 1 copy left:( Spending $60 at the time seemed so steep.Lesson well learned , since . Sigh!!! Well, congrats! anyway and enjoy!Albra Angela Lazear wrote:Ok, I just had to tell someone! I just bought Jacqueline Herald's "Dress in Renaissance Italy" for $75.00 from Moe's in Berkeley. I got an ABE Want match and just about wet my pants when I saw the title. I read it three times before I rushed to call Moe's to be told, I was sure, the book is sold. I tried to remain calm while the man went to look, and he returned and said non-plussed "Yeah, it's right here." Trying not to give myself away, I blurted like an idiot "Woo hoo, I've been looking for it for three years" - To which he replied "I guess I should be charging more." Kicked self promptly. He rang me up for the advertised price (phew), and it arrived yesterday. Happy happy day! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "I have no other but a woman's reason: I think him so, because I think him so." Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 20:25:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0PEqa030077 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:25:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0OEcf018582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0OEfE018451; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:24:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0NBfG017557 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:23:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007LERQHH8@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:18:04 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume In-reply-to: <006a01c30ea9$2f896060$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429171631.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:43 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Have you ever watched the fashion designers bash online another on Style TV? >I have and it is not nice. I don't get that channel, and I am glad to know that costumers share their knowledge. All the people on this list has been wonderful in sharing and I am glad to be able to soak that knowledge up. sluuuuurrrrrpppppp! ;-) Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 20:30:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0U2qa030091 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0NOcf018451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0NIfE017679; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:23:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0NBfE017557 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4007LERQHH8@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:16:09 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429170141.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <004a01c30ea6$ae5d0e80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Sarah, Here in Fresno, the center of California in distances, the arts is so-so. The zoo is barely making it. The few museums have little to show, and budget is tight. Some of the politicians are trying to improve the arts, but with budget cuts much of the funding may go away. The symphony is doing ok I hear, but I am not as close to that area of the arts anymore. Our best in re-enactment is the Civil War groups that meet at Kearny Park (and museum) in October. It's billed as the biggest in the state, and I love to watch it every year. This year I plan on making a dress for it. We also have four ren-faires within an hours drive. I don't know much about the SCA anymore, at least locally. I think it depends on where in the state you go. The mountains have many art communities, and the gold rush historical areas seem to do well. But with the current economy, even the crafters in those communities, such as in Oakhurst which is on the way to Yosemite from Fresno is having a hard time. But for costumers... my friend Linda used to have a costuming rental business. The only other costume rental business is out after the owner died a few years ago. Linda told me that there is a great interest in rentals, and few to fill that void in the valley with only one other shop an hour away. However, people don't want to pay much for rentals, even if you work your butt off like she does for her customers. She couldn't support herself with the company, so it has pretty much folded except for people she knows and for the kids she likes to help out in schools. I don't want to do rentals. I don't have the space for it, and I can't afford the startup cost of renting a space. So I plan to do small custom work, and try to find my niche in this area. Boy do I sound pessimistic today. Really, I am not this pessimistic. {sigh} Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 20:33:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0X5qa030098 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:33:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0Ulcf019084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:30:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0UifE021936; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U0UdfE021870 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 21072 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 00:30:39 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 00:30:39 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-248.sonic.net [209.148.112.248]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3U0Ucf22337 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:30:38 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:31:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <004a01c30ea6$ae5d0e80$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, do we have computer programmers or accountants on h-costume being expected to work at those tasks for free (except perhaps by a few people very close to them)? Do we have doctors or lawyers waiting tables (as actors and singers so often do) to make ends meet well enough to go on pursuing their "real" professions? Do we have doctors sacrificing an hour of sleep every night and skipping lunches out every weekday to practice medicine in those few hours, because they need a full-time "day job" working at something they like less? Which is what many fiction writers I know do--and not beginners, and not people who never get reviewed in _Publisher's Weekly_. Do we have doctors who only work seasonally, as ballet dancers often must do? In our society respect is expressed by money. If the average person in the fine arts can't earn enough to live on--the average artist, not the small percentage of "stars"--that profession isn't getting respect. And I'm not talking about California, I'm talking about the US as a whole. Sure, San Francisco has tons of cultural activity. But most artists I know still don't make a living at it. I know quite a few people via the net as well as locally. And this was true even before the recession. It's been true all my life. And as for history--have you checked out the job market in university teaching positions, or paid full-time museum positions? Fran At 07:25 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Do I live in the dark or what? In my location the arts and history are >respected. Musicians, artists, historians, and such are loved and >respected. When I lived in New Mexico it was the same. I have seen crafts >and art go for big $$$ in the Southwest. I would have assumed that >California was very arts driven... am I wrong? Growing up in Mississippi, >the arts was on the wayside... a hobby. History was viewed as the history >of the area, but was not put on the front burner. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 20:38:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0c4qa030113 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:38:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0awcf019521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U0avfE025513; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U0arfE025477 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from adsl-64-175-46-43.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@64.175.46.43 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 00:36:53 -0000 Message-ID: <001801c30eb0$be0ecda0$2b2eaf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030430001955.17950.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book Score!! Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:37:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Albra, Thanks, I passed on it three years ago at the same store for $285, and was kicking myself a year and a half later. The guy could totally tell I'd have given him my arm for it, but he'd already set the price. Fortunately he was honest. At least if you put yourself on the ABE want list now, I'm one less person you're competing with for the find. With my luck, the book will be back in print in a month, now that I've found one! Cheers angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "KATHRYN WOLTERS" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book Score!! > Angela ---I am soooooo jealous!!! I've been trying to get my hands on my own copy for 15 years:( I've been kicking myself for not buying it 20 years ago when the Getty still had 1 copy left:( Spending $60 at the time seemed so steep.Lesson well learned , since . Sigh!!! Well, congrats! anyway and enjoy!Albra > > Angela Lazear wrote:Ok, I just had to tell someone! I just bought Jacqueline Herald's "Dress in > Renaissance Italy" for $75.00 from Moe's in Berkeley. > > I got an ABE Want match and just about wet my pants when I saw the title. I > read it three times before I rushed to call Moe's to be told, I was sure, > the book is sold. I tried to remain calm while the man went to look, and he > returned and said non-plussed "Yeah, it's right here." Trying not to give > myself away, I blurted like an idiot "Woo hoo, I've been looking for it for > three years" - To which he replied "I guess I should be charging more." > > Kicked self promptly. He rang me up for the advertised price (phew), and it > arrived yesterday. Happy happy day! > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > Theatrical Costume Design > "I have no other but a woman's reason: > I think him so, because I think him so." > Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare > > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:23:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1NSqa030236 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:23:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1MFcf022809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1MDQD020349; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1M9QE020311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:22:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3U1MRN1025392 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:22:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h3U1MQ4f025390 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:22:26 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:22:26 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com> <008301c30e6d$d7d8a730$01fea8c0@livingroom> In-Reply-To: <008301c30e6d$d7d8a730$01fea8c0@livingroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304292122.26679.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 29 April 2003 12:39 pm, Lyn Greaves- home wrote: > There are some online sources for trim as well (TLBarnes and Calontir trim > come to mind)- I think you mean the trim that comes in white or black > backgrounds? Also, be aware that M&J Trim (which somebody else mentioned in another post) has its own web site: http://www.mjtrim.com/home.asp -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:28:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1SDqa030256 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:28:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1R9cf023233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:27:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1R9QD022636; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:27:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1R6QE022601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3U1RNN1025412 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:27:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h3U1RNh6025410 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:27:23 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: making a leine Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:27:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030429225359.89716.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030429225359.89716.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304292127.23551.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 29 April 2003 06:53 pm, Maggie Pierce Secara wrote: >[text cut here] > I don't know about Spring 2000, but much longer ago I > published an article in Tournaments Illuminated on > making a leine. The byline is Mairghread-Ros > FitzGarret of Desmond (that's me). Whatever you do, > please don't refer to that one. It's interesting, and > nicely written but it's wrong. The pleated > sleeves are totally undocumented and undocumentable. In any event, I seem to remember that so far as sca.org is concerned, all the issues of TI before 113 are out of print (check the web site, though, for the issue with the article you're interested in to make certain). -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:34:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1YWqa030276 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:34:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1XLcf023772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1XKQD026119; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1XHQD026092 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A802BE50064; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:33:54 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7DCA070294; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:33:16 -0500 Message-ID: <00af01c30eb8$4d9cd140$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429171631.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:32:02 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Kim, Style TV is wonderful!!!!!!! I could watch it for hours. It shows a lot of designer profiles and old fashion shows. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:41:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1fqqa030296 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1eWcf024342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:40:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1eVQD029558; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:40:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1eTQD029504 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003043001402300300fn408e>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:40:23 +0000 Message-ID: <00f501c30eb9$75f699e0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3EAE8536.651F2118@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:40:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 6:59 AM Subject: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... > Someone mentioned reading _Jane Eyre_ as a child, and being puzzled by a > bit in the book where Jane puts her purse into her pocket, with the > implication that it was a larger item. My brain immediately thought of > those pairs of pockets from the 18th c., but Jane's 19th c..... > Did women and girls still use those pairs of pockets in the 19th c? Or > am I completely off-base? I believe that during the 1830s - 1850s they did wear pockets in the 18th century sense (meaning separate garments) -- I have a photocopy of an article at work that I can check tomorrow: Burman, Barbara. "Pocketing the Difference: Gender and Pockets in Nineteenth-Century Britain." _Gender and History_ 14(3) (2002): 447-?. Also in Burman, Barbara and Carole Turbin. _Material Strategies: Dress and Gender in Historical Perspective_. Oxford: Blackwell, 2003. I just finished rereading _I Capture the Castle_ (set in 1930s England, written in the 1940s) by Dodie Smith (who also wrote _One Hundred & One Dalmatians_), and one of the characters mentions forgetting to put her purse into her satchel (or handbag... can't remember what she called it). Anyway, I certainly got the impression that "purse" in this sense referred to her wallet. I'll report back on the Burman article tomorrow! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:43:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1hGqa030308 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:43:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1g6cf024478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1g6QD000648; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1g2QD000612 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-11-81.smf.jps.net ([216.119.11.81] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Agbh-00043t-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:42:01 -0700 Message-ID: <00b201c30ebb$7414cfa0$510b77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:54:33 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO .......I kind of hate to point out the obvious Fran, but Penny just offered UNPAID internships for people to prepare material to be published on her website.........humm....thinking ........thinking........."is there anyway to post this to the list annomoyously????" Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > Penny, do we have computer programmers or accountants on h-costume being > expected to work at those tasks for free (except perhaps by a few people > very close to them)? Do we have doctors or lawyers waiting tables (as > actors and singers so often do) to make ends meet well enough to go on > pursuing their "real" professions? Do we have doctors sacrificing an hour > of sleep every night and skipping lunches out every weekday to practice > medicine in those few hours, because they need a full-time "day job" > working at something they like less? Which is what many fiction writers I > know do--and not beginners, and not people who never get reviewed in > _Publisher's Weekly_. Do we have doctors who only work seasonally, as > ballet dancers often must do? > > In our society respect is expressed by money. If the average person in the > fine arts can't earn enough to live on--the average artist, not the small > percentage of "stars"--that profession isn't getting respect. > > And I'm not talking about California, I'm talking about the US as a > whole. Sure, San Francisco has tons of cultural activity. But most > artists I know still don't make a living at it. I know quite a few people > via the net as well as locally. And this was true even before the > recession. It's been true all my life. > > And as for history--have you checked out the job market in university > teaching positions, or paid full-time museum positions? > > Fran > > > At 07:25 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Do I live in the dark or what? In my location the arts and history are > >respected. Musicians, artists, historians, and such are loved and > >respected. When I lived in New Mexico it was the same. I have seen crafts > >and art go for big $$$ in the Southwest. I would have assumed that > >California was very arts driven... am I wrong? Growing up in Mississippi, > >the arts was on the wayside... a hobby. History was viewed as the history > >of the area, but was not put on the front burner. > > > >Penny Ladnier > >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > >http://www.costumegallery.com > >http://www.costumeclassroom.com > >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > >(http://www.plugit.com)] > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:47:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1lqqa030320 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:47:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1kocf024846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:46:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1knQD003181; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1kjQE003153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3U1l3N1025552 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:47:03 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h3U1l3ks025550 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:47:03 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:47:03 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304292147.03111.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 29 April 2003 02:13 pm, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 02:22 PM 4/29/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >I have been asked to make theatre costumes but they expected me to work > >for free. > > Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? That > is one thing I have seen over and over in the ren faire groups I work with, > that the ladies are to dress everyone in their guild for free. Don't they > realize that our abilities take time to master and that our time is as > valuable as theirs? > > Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work > for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are seamstresses/tailors > expected to work for free, or even cheap? Look, people always expect to get free benefits from friends and acquaintances. That's why lawyers and doctors have to learn to deal with annoying requests for free legal/medical advice at cocktail parties and the like. It's not just professional costumers. Really it isn't! :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:52:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1q0qa030326 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:52:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1p1cf025194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1p0QD005121; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f111.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1ovQD005018 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:50:51 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:50:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:50:51 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2003 01:50:51.0925 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE2EB450:01C30EBA] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Boy do I sound pessimistic today. Really, I am not this >pessimistic. {sigh} > >Kimiko, Reality isn't pessimism. The fact is that in our disposable world people are getting so out of practice in actually looking at quality. I struggled for four years to have a business, not to earn "a living" but to help out my husband who supports all of us(4people, 3 large dogs). Last year was my last chance and the world fell apart. I wont stop costuming or loving the learning process for each new technique and era, but I don't know how anyone can really make anywhere close to what the dedication they put in is worth. Once in a while something sells and I get a rush of self pride, but most of the time I just wear what I make, even if I have to wear it to the grocery store. Now I'm volunteering in the local library and get to play costumes with the kids on story days. It may not be much, but at least I get to play. :) Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:52:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1qKqa030329 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:52:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1pGcf025212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:51:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1pFQD005221; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1p0QD005050 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:51:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003043001505500300fmsode>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:50:55 +0000 Message-ID: <011801c30eba$ee818f40$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:50:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a complicated question for me, because I'm split about 70/30 on this one.... About 30% of me would love to be a film or theater costumer -- in the past few years I've been working on improving my construction skills, and learned to draft my own patterns which has been great. However, each time I make a costume for a friend or customer, I find myself irritated by the experience. Usually I'm not getting paid enough to make it worth my while (both a problem of me undervaluing myself and them undervaluing me), and the customer usually doesn't appreciate the same things in costumes that I do (attempting to be as historically accurate as possible and appreciating fine construction work over glitz). Obviously this is different than working in theater or film, but there is a lot of joy in costuming for myself. The other 70% of me wants to do scholarly research related to the history of fashion in social context. I'm actually at work on this one -- as I'm an academic librarian, I'm required to do research and publish, and this has helped me to continue with my interests in this area. I recently finished rewriting my master's thesis into an article on the experiences and interpretations of fashion among female college students in the 1920s, and I've sent it off to an academic history journal (keep your fingers crossed!). However, I feel hampered in that I don't have a Ph.D. (I have two master's degrees, one in library science and one in history) -- this means that I probably won't be publishable by scholarly book publishers, and always makes me feel inferior when stacked up against those who do have this degree. But I'm forging on ahead, and am already excited about my next research project! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 21:54:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1s1qa030335 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:54:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1r2cf025385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1r1QD006094; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U1qwQD006054 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430015253.BQUL28930.out004.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:52:53 -0500 Message-ID: <00d701c30ebe$8eeedde0$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> <00b201c30ebb$7414cfa0$510b77d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:16:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:52:53 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3U1s1qa030335 Status: RO >but Penny just offered UNPAID internships for people to prepare material to be published on her website. Yes she did...but bear in mind that though unpaid monetarily, Penny allows those working on her site to take any of the classes offered free of charge and also gives those people access to educational materials, etc. that they would not otherwise have available to them. Also, it is a voluntary position which places no one under any obligation. Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:05:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U254qa030360 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:05:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U240cf026285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U23uRu011692; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:03:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U23rRu011671 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:03:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-11-81.smf.jps.net ([216.119.11.81] helo=pavilion) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Agwp-0005tz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: <00cb01c30ebe$831d0c80$510b77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net><00b201c30ebb$7414cfa0$510b77d8@pavilion> <00d701c30ebe$8eeedde0$6501a8c0@sharon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:16:28 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I expected such a response, and I actually agree with it. I do believe that people do work for a variety of reasons, to build skills, a resume, experience, to contribute to the community and people in need ask for help in order to achieve often similar aims. I just think it's important to keep reality in perspective in these types of conversations, otherwise one can end up being hypocritical. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? >but Penny just offered UNPAID internships for people to prepare material to be published on her website. Yes she did...but bear in mind that though unpaid monetarily, Penny allows those working on her site to take any of the classes offered free of charge and also gives those people access to educational materials, etc. that they would not otherwise have available to them. Also, it is a voluntary position which places no one under any obligation. Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:12:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2CWqa030372 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2BQcf026919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:11:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2AvRu015319; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f3.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2AkRu015074 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:10:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:10:39 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:10:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:10:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2003 02:10:39.0955 (UTC) FILETIME=[B24DB230:01C30EBD] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Oh man, that's neat. I've been thinking about how cool it would be to >>start >>popping open the graves of people whose clothing I'd like to get a look >>at. >>Heck, some of the stuff has to be a little intact, right? And the facial >>reconstruction thing is beyond cool. I know, "Desecration" and all. You >>know >>what, if 500 years from now, some textile archeologist wants to dig me up >>and >>play with my seams, great! > >Heya Sarra! > >I feel the same way. I want to donate my grave to archeologists 500 years >from now so they can have fun studying me and my clothes from the early >part of the 21st century. It's not desecration if you've got permission, >right? ;) > >Sarah > My husband wants to be buried in his armor. Boy will it throw the scientists when they find his historically accurate lamelar armor over his prequilted gambuson and tie dyed Tshirt!! ;) Jen _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:13:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2Dgqa030376 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:13:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2Cfcf027046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2CfRu016578; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2BMRu015648 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.156]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h3U2QwM02711 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:26:59 +1000 Message-ID: <014501c30ebe$2a45d2e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030429112233.84005.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> <0db701c30ea7$fa7f9b60$eaf4fea9@glendaii> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th century shoes Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:13:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There's also Mark Beaby, but I'm not sure of his contact details. > Silly me - I should have googled him first! http://www.bjarnisboots.co.uk/ Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:13:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2Dwqa030379 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:13:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2Cvcf027080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2CvRu016755; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2CmRu016604 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.96.88]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030430021237.NBIO15029.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:12:37 -0400 Message-ID: <013201c30ebd$f691e470$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429171631.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:12:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.96.88] using ID at Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:12:36 -0400 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only corollary I've encountered to this is in the cosplay (anime costuming) community. Since the demographic is, on the whole, younger than the general costuming community, you get a fair bit of high-school cliqueish behaviour. People seem to decide to hate whoever's most well known, with snide remarks, "Oh, she's a bitch" and such. General nastiness is often floating around, which often makes me glad that I've never become part of any one group; I pretty much just work on my own. I have no patience for immature behaviour. -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume > At 07:43 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Have you ever watched the fashion designers bash online another on Style TV? > >I have and it is not nice. > > I don't get that channel, and I am glad to know that costumers share their > knowledge. All the people on this list has been wonderful in sharing and I > am glad to be able to soak that knowledge up. sluuuuurrrrrpppppp! > > ;-) > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:14:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2EBqa030382 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2DDcf027102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2DDRu016940; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2D6Ru016862 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-33qtk9s.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.209.60] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Ah5j-0003Um-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:13:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:09:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429170141.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kimiko, I'm in Sacramento, so obviously my reference is more or less an 80 mile radius around Sac... ;) But it sounds like things in Fresno are pretty much the same as they are here. We do have a strong Gold Rush era contigency that is active in this area, and then there's always SF which is light years ahead of anywhere else in the state in terms of culture and historic-costume related venues, etc. > Here in Fresno, the center of California in distances, the arts is > so-so. The zoo is barely making it. The few museums have little to > show, and budget is tight. Some of the politicians are trying to > improve the arts, but with budget cuts much of the funding may go > away. The symphony is doing ok I hear, but I am not as close to that > area of the arts anymore. The central valley has a lot of neat community based arts and culture movements, but it really does depend on the personal investment of the community and the less reliance on state funding, the better. My fiance comes from Visalia, which is getting a fairly healthy theater and music scene going. When we were down there a few weeks ago we detoured into Exeter for breakfast and I was blown away by the kind of results a small town can turn out if they have good community funding. The mural project there is just so wonderful and the town itself has obviously had some love poured into it. Still, the one major drawback (at least for me) is that if you're not really interested in the Gold Rush/Civil War eras, you're pretty much out of luck (particularly so if you don't care for the SCA time period or Ren Faires). There are small groups that I know of who reenact English Civil War era stuff and some Regency groups active in the Bay Area, but they're not at the forefront. It probably has a lot to do with the actual history of the land more than anything... I can see Regency and 18th century reenactment being a bigger priority on the East Coast, which has a personal history that dates back that far. Whereas most people in California only know that things started to get going around the 1850's, so the personal interest in reenacting groups is more focused on the last 150 years or so. > Our best in re-enactment is the Civil War groups that meet at Kearny > Park (and museum) in October. It's billed as the biggest in the state, > and I love to watch it every year. This year I plan on making a dress > for it. We also have four ren-faires within an hours drive. I don't > know much about the SCA anymore, at least locally. SCA is still huge in California. For better or for worse, it's still going strong. ;) > I think it depends on where in the state you go. The mountains have > many art communities, and the gold rush historical areas seem to do > well. But with the current economy, even the crafters in those > communities, such as in Oakhurst which is on the way to Yosemite from > Fresno is having a hard time. Well, if it's tourist driven, yes. But take Exeter for example... It's really not any stop-over place to anywhere in the state. It's just there in the middle of citrus orchards on an offshoot of Hwy 198 going East. However, it really looks as though the residents of that town put in some serious personal effort to revive their community by making the mural project. So, it takes community to make these things work, really. > But for costumers... my friend Linda used to have a costuming rental > business. The only other costume rental business is out after the > owner died a few years ago. Linda told me that there is a great > interest in rentals, and few to fill that void in the valley with only > one other shop an hour away. However, people don't want to pay much > for rentals, even if you work your butt off like she does for her > customers. She couldn't support herself with the company, so it has > pretty much folded except for people she knows and for the kids she > likes to help out in schools. I don't want to do rentals. I don't have > the space for it, and I can't afford the startup cost of renting a > space. Yeah, I don't blame you. I think that the costume rental business would be too heartbreaking to really get anything worthwhile out of it. There is a fellow here in Sac who made a killing off of costume rentals by complete accident, but he's not working his butt off making high quality costumes. He just aquires his stuff from vintage shops, theaters, etc. > So I plan to do small custom work, and try to find my niche in this > area. Boy do I sound pessimistic today. Really, I am not this > pessimistic. {sigh} Good luck! I hope it works out for you. I don't have the stomach for a costume business so I really admire people who make a go at it. :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:17:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2Hwqa030397 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:17:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2H1cf027415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2H0Ru018950; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web9405.mail.yahoo.com (web9405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U2GxRu018938 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430021658.58604.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.78.208.191] by web9405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:16:58 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:16:58 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <05a301c30e72$abc6d0e0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really like Cheeptrims , too--although I had'nt realized that they were a wholesale outfit ----until they sent me a little card asking for all my business info.Whoops!!!Albra Beteena Paradise wrote:I have bought quite a bit from cheeptrims and for the most part their stuff is great. I have had trouble with a couple of things that all came from the same mill so I avoid those trims. You can tell the mill by the first 3 numbers of the item number. The mill I had a problem with was 095. Their prices are really good though! I have found a couple that were identical to that found at Calontir and MJTrim for a LOT less. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... > If you don't mind ordering from the web try www.cheeptrims.com. > They have such a huge selection of trims and laces that I spend hours > just drooling over them. And their prices are reasonable too. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:18:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2INqa030404 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:18:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2HPcf027465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:17:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2HPRu019189; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:17:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop015.verizon.net (pop015pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2HHRu019047 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by pop015.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430021711.ESXW6016.pop015.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:17:11 -0500 Message-ID: <012201c30ec1$f4539060$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net><00b201c30ebb$7414cfa0$510b77d8@pavilion><00d701c30ebe$8eeedde0$6501a8c0@sharon> <00cb01c30ebe$831d0c80$510b77d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop015.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:17:11 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3U2INqa030404 Status: RO >I just think it's important to keep reality in perspective in these types of conversations, otherwise one can end up being hypocritical. Agreed! Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:26:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2Q6qa030407 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:26:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2P6cf027989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2P5Ru022569; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U2P2Ru022512 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:25:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15740 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 02:25:02 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 02:25:02 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-78.sonic.net [209.148.112.78]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3U2P1A14811 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:25:01 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429192336.00ae9400@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:26:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? In-Reply-To: <200304292147.03111.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Look, people always expect to get free benefits from friends and >acquaintances. That's why lawyers and doctors have to learn to deal with >annoying requests for free legal/medical advice at cocktail parties and the >like. It's not just professional costumers. Really it isn't! :-) But doctors and lawyers generally earn a good living for their work. Meaning most people who approach them pay. And they don't need to work at some other profession to support what they really want to do, like so many artists. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:28:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2S2qa030414 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2R2cf028206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2R1Ru023696; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U2R0Ru023679 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27368 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 02:26:59 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 02:26:59 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-78.sonic.net [209.148.112.78]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3U2Qwl16336 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:26:59 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:28:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <00b201c30ebb$7414cfa0$510b77d8@pavilion> References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's up to Penny. I'm not blaming her, but I would not feel comfortable with it. I do have freelancers working for me from time to time, and I pay them well. Fran At 06:54 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >.......I kind of hate to point out the obvious Fran, but Penny just offered >UNPAID internships for people to prepare material to be published on her >website.........humm....thinking ........thinking........."is there anyway >to post this to the list annomoyously????" > > >Lisa > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:42:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2gaqa030485 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:42:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2fXcf029649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2fWRu001464; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail7.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail7.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2fTRv001438 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h3U1fQ0K019554 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:41:26 -0400 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.41.169]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:41:28 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:12 -0400 Message-ID: <007401c30ec1$fe3a81b0$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Costumer's Dream Career X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For the record: I don't think I could ever make my costuming hobby into a full-time career. I lack the formal education and experience, and the few experiences I've had making things for pay/making things on a schedule have tainted the pure joy of creation, at least for me! Having said this, in an ideal world I think I could be happy working in the textile/costume collection at the V&A or similar - just me, the clothes, a quiet place, and study, planning exhibits, etc. (I actually have little idea what it would be like to be a museum researcher or curator - I'm just dreaming here). I must say I do envy Penny for doing the Lucasfilm workshop - whatever may be said of the recent Star Wars films in terms of plot/acting, they've looked PERFECT! Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 22:47:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2lAqa030521 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2kAcf029974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2k9Ru003674; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2k7Ru003594 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:46:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430024601.BKBY25152.out005.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:46:01 -0500 Message-ID: <013e01c30ec5$fb9380c0$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:09:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:46:01 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3U2lAqa030521 Status: RO >That's up to Penny. I'm not blaming her, but I would not feel comfortable with it. I do have freelancers working for me from time to time, and I pay them well. That's wonderful if that is your choice and within your means to do so, Fran. On the other hand, Penny has not exactly gone out and recruited people into bondage. She makes very clear from the start exactly what the arrangements and expectations are, and again, this is strictly voluntary. In actual fact, Penny did not ask me, I came to her and offered to intern as a way to learn and grow in my interests and skills. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, so, as I say, though I am not currently reimbursed monetarily, I certainly don't feel as though I am doing anything for "free". But I each must measure by their own reference point. I have freelanced in many different areas and certainly monetary compensation is great and always welcome...but there are other forms of "payment" that I consider just as valuable depending on the circumstances. :) Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:01:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U31fqa030580 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:01:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U30dcf001124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U30cqR011391; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U30ZqR011365 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC79215D001E; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:01:13 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC5321240100; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:00:35 -0500 Message-ID: <00d501c30ec4$7ffa6100$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:59:21 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, I don't know why you are going after me. Boy, are you coming out of left field today. I never ever said that costumers shouldn't be paid what they are worth. As a matter of fact, I pass costume job announcements via my website's newsletter several times a month. My goal is to have everyone paid in the industry who wants to be employed. Everyone on my newsletter (472 members today) knows that and a lot of h-costumers are on my newsletter can attest to that. Several people have written me telling me that they got the job from the announcement I sent. I spend many hours a month trying to find costuming job announcements to pass along to others. LACMA also sends me job announcements to post to my newsletter. As for universities, I pass along job announcements for them too. If you think there aren't many openings, think again. I know I have passed along several open university level positions in the past few months via my newsletter. If and a very big IF you are referring to the message that I quoted the high school girl, you might want to read the entire message. If you could make $500-1,000 a week in high school and higher afterwards without a degree... would you go to college and be in debt for 20 years of the cost of school? Just remember that only 10% of the population of the U.S. have a college degree. Over 50% of college freshmen drop out after their first semester. AND only 10% of college graduates work in the field of their college degree major... quoted from every business professor I had in college. Fran, go back and read my messages carefully for today. You will see I NEVER said that costumers don't deserve to be paid what they are worth. And if you are ready to a flame war forget it. I don't play your game. My apologies to the members on h-costume for being very blunt. I do not like people mis-quoting others and trying to stir things up. This is the second time since being on h-costume since 1996 that I have had the need to talk this way. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > Penny, do we have computer programmers or accountants on h-costume being > expected to work at those tasks for free (except perhaps by a few people > very close to them)? Do we have doctors or lawyers waiting tables (as > actors and singers so often do) to make ends meet well enough to go on > pursuing their "real" professions? Do we have doctors sacrificing an hour > of sleep every night and skipping lunches out every weekday to practice > medicine in those few hours, because they need a full-time "day job" > working at something they like less? Which is what many fiction writers I > know do--and not beginners, and not people who never get reviewed in > _Publisher's Weekly_. Do we have doctors who only work seasonally, as > ballet dancers often must do? > > In our society respect is expressed by money. If the average person in the > fine arts can't earn enough to live on--the average artist, not the small > percentage of "stars"--that profession isn't getting respect. > > And I'm not talking about California, I'm talking about the US as a > whole. Sure, San Francisco has tons of cultural activity. But most > artists I know still don't make a living at it. I know quite a few people > via the net as well as locally. And this was true even before the > recession. It's been true all my life. > > And as for history--have you checked out the job market in university > teaching positions, or paid full-time museum positions? > > Fran [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:05:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U35Fqa030595 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:05:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2xIcf001033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2xHqR010639; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U2xDqR010605 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a61.directcon.net [207.215.72.61]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3U31dT17976; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:01:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030429200134.00c39c90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:01:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> References: <003d01c30ea5$1fdee580$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:27 PM 04/29/2003 -0700, Kimiko Small wrote: living in a non-costume conducive city, the only place I >can turn to is places online, like your company. Driving to LA or the Bay >all the time is just too far, except for once in awhile. Where do you live, Kimiko? Margo "The Diana Gabaldon of costume patterns" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:07:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U37Dqa030602 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U35jcf001485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U35iqR013900; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:05:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U35fqR013876 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2249 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 03:05:41 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 03:05:41 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-78.sonic.net [209.148.112.78]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3U35eA29862 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:05:40 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429195037.00a92cd0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:06:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <013e01c30ec5$fb9380c0$6501a8c0@sharon> References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not criticizing you for being an intern. My paying freelancers is not a question of my "choosing" to pay them because I have lots of spare cash to play with. When I hire someone I expect them to have certain specialized professional skills and experience. I require them to work under supervision, under contract, and to a deadline. I screen and interview candidates very carefully, and choose the best available. They, in turn, are doubtless interviewing with and screening other potential employers. Probably no one with the skills I need (from time to time) would work for me for free. And if they did want to, for some reason, I wouldn't feel comfortable about placing the demands on them that I do. I'm running a business, not a hobby. And I'm not saying it's wrong for anyone to have a costuming-related hobby, either. I'm just saying the expectations are different. This is exactly what people have been discussing, when they say customers want them to do intensive hand beading super cheap, wor ant then to keep redesigning the garment after it's partly made. And then don't understand why they need to charge, or even why they charge at all. You just can't run a business like a hobby, and people need to understand the difference. Again, I am far from blaming anyone from having a costuming hobby. But the discussion has been about how to establish a costuming business. Fran >That's wonderful if that is your choice and within your means to do so, >Fran. On the other hand, Penny has not exactly gone out and recruited >people into bondage. She makes very clear from the start exactly what the >arrangements and expectations are, and again, this is strictly voluntary. Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:09:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U39pqa030613 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:09:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U38Kcf001707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U38KqR015131; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U388qR014981 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:08:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from there (d14-69-212-144.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.144.212]) h3U383n18894 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:08:03 -0500 Message-Id: <200304300308.h3U383n18894@pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A reliable Elna repair center in Ann Arbor, MI? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:08:40 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <200304280330.h3S3Ucm02338@pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com> <3EACA88E.7080800@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: <3EACA88E.7080800@fenris.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.1(snapshot 20020919) (pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! I'll give that a try. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:12:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3Ceqa030628 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:12:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3Becf002007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3BdqR016741; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3BbqR016719 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE4006N5ZJBZG@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:06:42 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20030429200134.00c39c90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429200522.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <003d01c30ea5$1fdee580$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:01 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Where do you live, Kimiko? > >Margo Fresno, CA. Smack dab in the middle between LA and SF. Four hours either way. No costume guild here, but thankfully a fiber arts guild that has welcomed me. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:20:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3K2qa030660 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:20:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3Ixcf002518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:18:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3IwqR020360; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3IsqR020307 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:18:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dandy.net (acty1162.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.162]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h3U3JFCe003100 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:19:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3EAF3FCB.ED7DBB8D@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:15:23 -0400 From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume References: <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Couldn't help sounding in on this one. I work in the entertainment field, doing just about anything I am asked to do. I have found that, although my brothers and sisters in the Wardrobe local attached to us are incredibly talented, and get paid at the same rate that I do, there is not as much call for their talents as there is for lighting, sound and other things. On the road show of Riverdance that I just helped load in, the show will require 4 to 6 dressers, but will need 4 flymen, 8 electricians, 4 soundmen and 4 carpenters (as well as the road crew essential techs). They have a massive wardrobe, and the show has two wardrobe techs with it, but it is still a small part of the package. OTOH, the company that manufactured the costumes for the show probably had a number of talented seamstresses, but, sad to say, they were probably being paid poorly by the company that hired them (although this is not always the case). As I mentioned before, I have been in the wardrobe dept., and have been head of dept. on a few shows. Fortunately, our contract doesn't differentiate in pay between departments (unless you are in a high risk area, which pays more), so our people get the same rate. Penny, you seem justifiably proud of your son. Let me know when he starts buying equipment and begins a rental house, I'll mention him to folks who need gear in your area.;) Clothing and costume is tough, it seems everyone thinks they can do it, so they don't have a problem paying poor wages. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:20:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3KMqa030666 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:20:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3JKcf002550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3JKqR020581; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop016.verizon.net (pop016pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3J9qR020407 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by pop016.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430031903.CODL3199.pop016.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:19:03 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c30eca$97225c60$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429195037.00a92cd0@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:42:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop016.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:19:03 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3U3KMqa030666 Status: RO >customers want them to do intensive hand beading super cheap, wor ant then to keep redesigning the garment after it's partly made. And then don't understand why they need to charge, or even why they charge at all. I certainly can relate to this statement during the period when I was doing web design....very frustrating indeed! One of the main reasons I gave it up. And I also agree that you cannot run a business like a hobby and everyone is entitled to recompense for their hard work and expertise. There is the difference in my case, ...for Penny, and so many others on this list, costume is a business, first and foremost. This is, for the most part, and as far as I can tell, a group of dedicated, educated, well informed, talent persons in the field of costume and history. For me, at present, it is a very enjoyable hobby, a great learning experience, and so for me, "payment" for my work can take forms other than monetary at the moment :) Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:25:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3Pfqa030685 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3O7cf002882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3O6qR022900; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U3O3qR022871 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 5523 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 03:24:03 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 03:24:03 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-78.sonic.net [209.148.112.78]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3U3O2l04426 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:24:02 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429200836.00a92e18@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:25:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <00d501c30ec4$7ffa6100$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:59 PM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Fran, > >I don't know why you are going after me. Boy, are you coming out of left >field today. I never ever said that costumers shouldn't be paid what they >are worth. I did not accuse you of saying costumers should not be paid what they are worth. Nor did I accuse you of not helping people to find jobs. My impression was merely that you have a somewhat rosier view of payment for careers in "the arts" in the US than seems realistic to me. I fervently wish all artists were paid what they are worth. I fervently wish all the arts had the same respect as medicine, law, computer science, and any number of other careers. I fervently wish people didn't think "women's work" is worth less money. But the sad reality is, people don't give due respect to or payment for the arts or to "women's work." I also wish plentiful jobs in colleges and museums were available for historians. But they're not. My disagreeing with what I think you said is not starting a flame war. Not to mention--it takes more than one person to conduct one. I hate to say this, but although some people do make full-time livings costuming, there are a lot of people with the skills and desire to do so who probably can't. And, for the ones who do, it's not uncommon to have to explain to their customers why their work is worth decent pay. I'm not saying people can't succeed, but it is work and they will have to swim against cultural expectations about art and about "women's work." It's better for people to know this before starting a business, if they don't know it already. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:39:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3dQqa030735 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:39:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3cPcf003854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3cOqR029705; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3cKqR029686 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a61.directcon.net [207.215.72.61]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3U3ekT21729; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:40:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030429204042.00c4b320@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:40:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429200522.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> References: <3.0.6.32.20030429200134.00c39c90@pop.directcon.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <003d01c30ea5$1fdee580$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:06 PM 04/29/2003 -0700, Kimiko Small wrote: >At 08:01 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Where do you live, Kimiko? >> >>Margo > > >Fresno, CA. Oh, darn. I was hoping you were nearer to me. I'm also in The Rest Of California, (Not the Bay Area, Not LA) but too far from you to do either of us any good. I've been trying to figure out, though, are you the Kimmy who was in Saint Bridget's guild, the first year they started up at Northern Faire..oh, about '84 or so? Margo "The Diana Gabaldon of costume patterns" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Apr 29 23:54:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3stqa030845 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3qNcf004880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3qMqR006748; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U3qKqR006735 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-18-215.o1.jps.net ([216.119.18.215] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Aidm-0003wp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:52:19 -0700 Message-ID: <003801c30ecd$a5de4e00$d71277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net><5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net> <013e01c30ec5$fb9380c0$6501a8c0@sharon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:04:47 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sharon, I started historically costuming at a museum that ran living history events and it was a great trade off for me, my time for library access and experience and it even lead to a paid job offer. But I was smart enough even as a volunteer to know that "volunteer work" is often looked down upon or at least not taken as seriously as paid employment when it comes to future job interviews. So, I "contracted" my services to the museum in exchange for office space, an informal agreement between myself and the director, so in the future if ever asked if my "work" was paid work, I could say "yes" and honestly too. I never discussed the payment terms and was never asked. Something to consider in this money seems to be the barometer of value world we live in. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? >That's up to Penny. I'm not blaming her, but I would not feel comfortable with it. I do have freelancers working for me from time to time, and I pay them well. That's wonderful if that is your choice and within your means to do so, Fran. On the other hand, Penny has not exactly gone out and recruited people into bondage. She makes very clear from the start exactly what the arrangements and expectations are, and again, this is strictly voluntary. In actual fact, Penny did not ask me, I came to her and offered to intern as a way to learn and grow in my interests and skills. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, so, as I say, though I am not currently reimbursed monetarily, I certainly don't feel as though I am doing anything for "free". But I each must measure by their own reference point. I have freelanced in many different areas and certainly monetary compensation is great and always welcome...but there are other forms of "payment" that I consider just as valuable depending on the circumstances. :) Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 00:07:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U473qa030901 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:07:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U460cf005997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U460Og013378; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U45vOg013367 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:05:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-12hc5uh.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.23.209] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Aiqz-0003uf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:05:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3EAF4B88.7060802@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:05:28 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book Score!! References: <012001c30e97$dcd14a60$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> In-Reply-To: <012001c30e97$dcd14a60$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela Lazear wrote: > Ok, I just had to tell someone! I just bought Jacqueline Herald's "Dress in > Renaissance Italy" for $75.00 from Moe's in Berkeley. I have a want set for that one too and of course it was gone by the time I checked. In four years I've found one copy and that was for $200. I got it because the name was mispelled "Harold" and I'll search for obvious mispellings. It's not my time period so I'm not interested in a personal copy, but I keep a look-out for friends. I'm glad someone got it who can appreciate it. --Charlene -- No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. -- Dave Barry, "Dave Barry Turns 50" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 00:25:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4P9qa030927 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:25:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4O6cf007236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4O5Og021224; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4O2Og021186 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A008D4D0064; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:24:40 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AFE222700100; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:24:02 -0500 Message-ID: <013901c30ed0$27693aa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net> <00b201c30ebb$7414cfa0$510b77d8@pavilion> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:22:46 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] My interns and more X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My interns are getting paid as each of them can tell you. We look at it as a barter system. They each get to take classes for free, that is $60 per class and they can take classes as long as they work with us. Plus they get free access to my library which turns over to a paysite late tomorrow. (more about this at the end of this message). I interviewed 25 potential interns. Of the 25 only 1 did not go with the program. She opted out because of the software she uses is not compatible with ours. I have a waiting list of other 5 people wanting to interns in the summer. All the barter arrangements were made up front. Plus, I give job referrals to potential employers if the job performance is good. Internships helps them build a portfolio and an education in the process. If you are looking for a real honest to good paid internship, good luck. Most internships, outside of the computer programming world, are unpaid. For a matter of fact, when I was an intern at the Valentine Museum, I paid the university $500+ to do the internship. I was really lucky that at the end of the summer, they awarded me a $500 scholarship... only one of two given. There were several interns that summer and only two received scholarships. So I broke even. BUT what I learned and the contacts I made while working at the Valentine is worth thousands $$$ more. I will forever be in depth to the Valentine for all they taught me. And the costume industry connections I made were unreal. I went into the internship as green as could be. Colleen and Teresa, the curators, introduced me to so many people in the industry. We took field trips to behind-the-scenes collections that I would of never had access to as a private individual. I got my job with my millionaire client because of being an intern with the Valentine. And yes, I did earn back my $500 and more from just this one connection. Teresa taught me how to deal with research and work with major TV, film, and journalists. I look at my interns with the same eyes. I want to help them build a foundation for their careers or education. I want them to learn to go to the original source, how to document, and how to strive for perfection. They are learning how to work together as a team. On top of all this, they are getting to work with publications that have been forgotten by history. This is the main reason they wanted to do the internship. I am sure Susan, Sharon, Jennifer, and Kim can all tell you what joy it has brought to them to take a cruddy old image and bring it back to life. I taught all three of them how to do this. As I said before, tomorrow we are turning the Gallery's Library over to a pay site. Then you will start to see all of our hard work of the interns, review committee, and our staff. Our goal is to make the Library the largest online costuming resource with actual articles and images from the periods represented. I have literally thousands of articles and images to go online. I am also publishing my color names documentation through the library. As the Library starts to generate sufficient funds, we will hope to hire the best from our intern pool. I hope at that time to begin purchasing the higher end publications from pre-1800 to put online in the Library. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 00:33:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4Xbqa030939 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4WUcf007816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4WPOg025351; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:32:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4WLOg025313 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE5006ZY39UZG@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:27:24 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: $$$ & Costume In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20030429204042.00c4b320@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429212404.02cc4470@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429200522.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> <3.0.6.32.20030429200134.00c39c90@pop.directcon.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429162235.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <003d01c30ea5$1fdee580$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <200304291905.h3TJ53C09486@gw.retro.com> <009f01c30e96$31d2fce0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:40 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Oh, darn. I was hoping you were nearer to me. I'm also in The Rest Of >California, (Not the Bay Area, Not LA) but too far from you to do either of >us any good. > >I've been trying to figure out, though, are you the Kimmy who was in Saint >Bridget's guild, the first year they started up at Northern Faire..oh, >about '84 or so? > >Margo Sorry. Just for my curiosity's sake, where do you live? Alas, no I am not that Kimmy, but I am familiar with the guild. I don't go by Kimmy, but sometimes Kim. I have a friend named Kimmi and we don't like being confused with one another. She also costumes and lives near SF. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 00:42:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4gPqa030949 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:42:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4fMcf008524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4fLOg029176; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4fIOg029127 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3U4M8v01959 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EAF53FA.4385D695@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:30 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Found heavy linen twill References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks. Sounds like it might have yummy modern possibilities, but nothing that I could use for my historical costuming. bummer. Say, does anyone know when stuff like this, and the noils and what not, started becoming popular? Sometime in the 20th century, maybe? I find it interesting that I, and my persona, would have very different views on the stuff....well, but we'd *both* love to own some of the cut-and-voided 16th c. silk velvet I've been fortunate enough to see. Over 400 years old, and it's still shiney......yumm! --sue Heather Meadows wrote: > > Matka is a very loose basket weave cloth. Looks very 'homespun' but > has nice drape. > > On Monday, April 28, 2003, at 06:04 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Scrolling down that same page, I see some silks, as well. I'm not > > interested in the silk noile, but what is silk "matka?" > > --sue, who has *no doubt* that Drea is an evil temptress! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 00:42:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4gqqa030952 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:42:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4fmcf008563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4fmOg029342; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4fZOg029236 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:41:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE5007DJ3P7SJ@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:36:41 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429204648.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429170141.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:09 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >The central valley has a lot of neat community based arts and culture >movements, but it really does depend on the personal investment of the >community and the less reliance on state funding, the better. My fiance >comes from Visalia, which is getting a fairly healthy theater and music >scene going. When we were down there a few weeks ago we detoured into >Exeter for breakfast and I was blown away by the kind of results a small >town can turn out if they have good community funding. I grew up in Dinuba, 20 minutes north of Visalia. I went to COS in Visalia in early 90s. Reedley, 7 miles NW of Dinuba also has a great theatre and arts community, and takes care of its downtown area. Dinuba... has gone downhill since I moved. I haven't been to Exeter in many years, and they have a great spinners and weavers guild. Three Rivers in the hills east of Exeter is small, but has several fiber artists in residence. Oakhurst has a few as well. It does all depend on location. Fresno I thought would offer more. It's the biggest metro city in this part of the Central Valley. It has a wonderful and very creative fiber arts guild, but I am the only costumer in the group; most are quilters. Many years back another lady tried to get a costumers guild going, and found only me and a couple of other people interested. It died before it could start. The Met Museum recently got a facelift, and its surrounding area is being reworked into an art zone, partly to revitalize the downtown area. But the stadium got the big money and still few people want to come back downtown after hours to do anything. Budget cuts have hurt, and the city politicians are very short sited. I know, my husband works at City Hall. It's not to say that the arts isn't thriving here, but like many places it depends on the type of arts. Our Tower District has several small art houses, but the one lady who sold designer fabrics brought from the LA garment district in the Tower area had to close up shop from lack of a solid customer base. We all loved her stuff, but there isn't enough interest here to support her. She now sells Berninas and is very active with the fiber arts guild. I love costuming. I always will. It would help to have more support and understanding in this area I live in. Thankfully I have you all, and my ren-faire friends who understand this passion we all share. Hopefully in time, we can educate the rest of the world that what we do is not mass market work, but worthy of being paid well. However, in my training in business, I know the modern reality of the throw away society we live in, where quality craftsmanship and art is highly undervalued, unless you are selling golf clubs. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 00:49:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4n5qa030963 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4m3cf008880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4m2Og001931; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4lxOg001876 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a247.in-tch.com [66.62.107.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3U4Trv05111 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EAF55CB.8F1067BB@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:49:15 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know, Kate, since it's been many years since I've read _Jane_ (good weather for it right now, though....) I thought it might either be a case of a small "purse" (like a coin purse) being put into a modern-ordinary pocket, or perhaps a different version of a pocket. And that got me to thinking....(yeah, I know...it's dangerous, me thinking ) --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Sue wrote: > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> Someone mentioned reading _Jane Eyre_ as a child, and being puzzled >by a bit in the book where Jane puts her purse into her pocket, with the > >implication that it was a larger item. > > Do you mean the purse was large? Is this a confusion caused by the American use of "purse" for a handbag? I imagine Jane Eyre's purse as being a little knitted bag for holding coins. > > > My brain immediately thought of those pairs of pockets from the 18th c., >but Jane's 19th c.....Did women and girls still use those pairs of pockets in >the 19th c? Or am I completely off-base? > > I'm no 19th century expert, but I thought big pockets went out with the slimline Regency dresses, to be replaced by the "reticule" or handbag. I suppose when full skirts came back into fashion, a discreet pocket for money and a handkerchief was once more possible? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 00:57:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4v5qa030970 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:57:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4tJcf009277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4tInC004812; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U4tFnD004784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h3U4sHqs027188 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:54:18 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Book Score!! Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:55:41 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: <3EAF4B88.7060802@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a wonderful book. I got it years ago for $19 when it went on remainder with _Gothic Europe_ by Ribiero. I've broken the back of my copy making copies for other people. Boydell and Brewer, the same company that put out the Tailor's Manual by Alcega, is interested in putting both books out again, but the author owns the copyright, and they can't find one of them. I gather it didn't sell well when it first came out because of poor quality in the color photos (bah! who cares. I can get the photos elsewhere now). Then there was a warehouse fire that took many volumes with it. If you get a chance at least look through it! Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Charlene Charette > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:05 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book Score!! > > > Angela Lazear wrote: > > Ok, I just had to tell someone! I just bought Jacqueline > Herald's "Dress in > > Renaissance Italy" for $75.00 from Moe's in Berkeley. > > I have a want set for that one too and of course it was gone by the time > I checked. In four years I've found one copy and that was for $200. I > got it because the name was mispelled "Harold" and I'll search for > obvious mispellings. It's not my time period so I'm not interested in a > personal copy, but I keep a look-out for friends. I'm glad someone got > it who can appreciate it. > > --Charlene > > -- > No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too > seriously. -- Dave Barry, "Dave Barry Turns 50" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 01:18:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5I2qa030997 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:18:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5Gwcf010683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5GsnC014003; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5GpnD013986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3U5H9N1026004 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:17:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h3U5H9ej026002 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:17:09 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:17:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429192336.00ae9400@pop.sonic.net> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429192336.00ae9400@pop.sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304300117.09272.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 29 April 2003 10:26 pm, Lavolta Press wrote: > >Look, people always expect to get free benefits from friends and > >acquaintances. That's why lawyers and doctors have to learn to deal with > >annoying requests for free legal/medical advice at cocktail parties and > > the like. It's not just professional costumers. Really it isn't! :-) > > But doctors and lawyers generally earn a good living for their > work. Meaning most people who approach them pay. Not necessarily. It's precisely because doctors' and lawyers' services are expensive that people ask us for free advice so often. >And they don't need to > work at some other profession to support what they really want to do, like > so many artists. True enough, but that's a different point. You're right, it's *not* fair that people expect professionals to give them the benefit of their services for nothing. It's even less fair when people attempt to take advantage of professionals whose specialties do not make enough money to allow them to make a good living or even work at the specialty full time. -- Cathy Raymond "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodisiac." Timothy Leary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 01:21:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5Lvqa031001 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:21:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5Kwcf010974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5KwnC015777; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5KtnC015753 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD5D21C2001E; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:21:33 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD3723210100; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:20:55 -0500 Message-ID: <017b01c30ed8$1861e720$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429170141.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429204648.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:19:37 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One last one from me on this topic... where we all don't agree about upper income people and how much they are being paid VS us. The upper income people are the major backers of the cultural and performing arts. They sit on boards for museums, make endowments, etc. I didn't have respect for these people until seeing how much museums, historic sites, and performing arts depend on these people. They are the season ticket holders to the theaters, ballets, etc. They are the ones who send regular donations to museums. From working with the elite of Richmond, VA, they measure their wealth by how they help their given charities... I call them their pet projects. Fontaine's charities are the Richmond Ballet, Children's Cancer Ward at two local main hospitals, the American Red Cross, Valentine Museum, Princess Diana Foundation, and the Theater of VA. Her husband's charity is the Boy Scouts of America. I know Fontaine worked from Sept. 30, 2001 to Aug. 2002 just planning the Red Cross ball. All money went to the Red Cross. She paid for the ball herself. A lot of the general public does not see the contributions these people make to our cultural arts or various organizations. But they are getting out there hosting fund raisers, sitting on boards, etc. Many corporations have their own pet projects. We really saw this when my son was talking with businesses about his Eagle Scout project. Most people do not realize the amount of support these people give and never ask for a thank you. My oldest son is in management at Starbucks. On Christmas eve, they were all in the hospital giving cancer kids gifts and playing Santa Claus. I look at it this way, we may not make millions. But I thank goodness that there are rich people out there giving donations to the cultural arts, so I can see wonderful works of art in museums. I never planned to be a millionaire... just pay the bills and be happy at what I contribute to the world. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 01:24:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5OJqa031012 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:24:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5NLcf011112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5NKnC016832; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5NHnC016799 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h3U5MY414008 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:22:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200304300522.h3U5MY414008@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > > Don't fall for doing free work for "publicity." It's a lot easier and > usually more effective to put up a website, distribute flyers, and maybe > take out a few inexpensive ads in closely related publications. The code phrase to look out for is, "It'll be good exposure." This really means "We can't afford to pay you." My typical response these days is, "You can die of too much exposure." Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 01:36:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5aXqa031062 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5ZKcf011948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5ZInC022605; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5ZEnC022557 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30882 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:54:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:54:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Book Score!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Wanda Pease wrote: > This is a wonderful book. I got it years ago for $19 when it went on > remainder with _Gothic Europe_ by Ribiero. Actually, _Late Gothic Europe_ by Margaret Scott. > I've broken the back of my copy making copies for other people. > Boydell and Brewer, the same company that put out the Tailor's Manual > by Alcega, is interested in putting both books out again, but the > author owns the copyright, and they can't find one of them. Which author? Margaret Scott is still around, or at least I saw a paper she published a couple of years ago. I'll be talking to a Boydell editor next week on another matter, so if you've heard more about this, let me know. I may be able to help. (No idea where Jacqueline Herald is, though.) > I gather it didn't sell well when it first came out because of poor > quality in the color photos (bah! who cares. I can get the photos > elsewhere now). Then there was a warehouse fire that took many volumes > with it. Yes, you probably heard that on this list last December, when I told the story (as Margaret told it to me many years ago). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 02:01:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U61Gqa031177 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:01:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5wjcf013842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U5wiEA009241; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:58:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U5wgEA009190 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 30488 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 05:58:41 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 05:58:41 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-76.sonic.net [209.148.112.76]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3U5wel01751 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:58:40 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429224720.00a9c2d8@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:59:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <017b01c30ed8$1861e720$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429170141.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429204648.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO None of this, nor your post about the percentage of Americans graduating from college, etc., etc., has anything to do with costumer's incomes. I was talking about the salaries of other professions compared to the arts. By which I'd include many others besides doctors and lawyers--plumbers, for example, and many union jobs. (Although, I would call medicine and law, generally speaking, middle-class and not upper-class professions. My brother is a lawyer BTW.) My point is not that doctors, etc., deserve less pay or respect, but that costumers and other artists deserve equivalent pay and respect. And that women and the professions associated with them deserve equal pay and respect to "men's work." I don't see what you think we're disagreeing on. Your responses have no relation to my posts. Fran where we all don't agree about upper >income people and how much they are being paid VS us. T Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 02:24:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6O9qa005915 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:24:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6N6cf015692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6N5EA025323; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6N2EA025293 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABEBE730064; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:23:39 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABC6BD701F0; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:23:02 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd01c30ee0$c1ab5480$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429170141.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429204648.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429224720.00a9c2d8@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:21:37 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, I wasn't even talking to you... give it a rest! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > None of this, nor your post about the percentage of Americans graduating > from college, etc., etc., has anything to do with costumer's incomes. > > I was talking about the salaries of other professions compared to the > arts. By which I'd include many others besides doctors and > lawyers--plumbers, for example, and many union jobs. (Although, I would > call medicine and law, generally speaking, middle-class and not upper-class > professions. My brother is a lawyer BTW.) > > My point is not that doctors, etc., deserve less pay or respect, but that > costumers and other artists deserve equivalent pay and respect. And that > women and the professions associated with them deserve equal pay and > respect to "men's work." > > I don't see what you think we're disagreeing on. Your responses have no > relation to my posts. > > Fran > > > > where we all don't agree about upper > >income people and how much they are being paid VS us. T > > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and Vintage Dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 02:52:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6qHqa014835 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6pGcf017229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6pFEA007151; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U6pBEA007129 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-003-130.jps.net ([216.119.3.130] helo=w7m1l6) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AlQs-0002cG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:51:11 -0700 Message-ID: <00be01c30ee4$d7ea6160$820377d8@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:50:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? I can see Regency and 18th century > reenactment being a bigger priority on the East Coast, which has a > personal history that dates back that far. Whereas most people in > California only know that things started to get going around the > 1850's, so the personal interest in reenacting groups is more focused > on the last 150 years or so. > That is a problem with the schools out here in California. They only teach history of California starting with the 1850's. But we have a much longer history than just when the US stole California from Mexico. The pre-gold rush history is rich with intrusting people and clothing. But it is all sweep under the rug, because a lot of people don't want to face facts. Stephen - On his soap box. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 03:19:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U7Jvqa026140 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 03:19:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U7Iecf018634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:18:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U7IdvT018416; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:18:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3U7IZvT018355 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430071830.25590.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:18:30 BST Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:18:30 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th century shoes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <014501c30ebe$2a45d2e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Glenda Robinson wrote: > > > > There's also Mark Beaby, but I'm not sure of his contact details. > > > Silly me - I should have googled him first! > > http://www.bjarnisboots.co.uk/ > Yep, but he's a lot more expensive. How good any of them is? I honestly don't care anymore who I think is better and who is worse, because someone out there will lways have a different opinion. *shrug* Still, my Kevin Garlick shoes are NOT elegant at all but the MOST comfortable. My Sarah Juniper shoes (several) are very elegant, made with authentic lasts and the closest to the originals, and lovely, but not quite as comfortable as Kevin's. Ben's Bjarni's boots expensive turnshoes fell apart after two weeks (!) and he didn't even want to repair them on warranty (or whatever one calls that) so I am not very happy with that one. There is also Morgan Hubbard from Plantagenet shoes, who Ninya Mikhaila uses, and who is apparently getting better and better, but I have no personal experience with him: http://www.plantagenetshoes.freeserve.co.uk/ Nicole ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 04:08:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U88Nqa014449 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 04:08:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U87Jcf020916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U87IG0006658; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U87EG0006636 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:07:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h3U87Ep27023.; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:07:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:07:14 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:06:40 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h3U87EG0006636 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I was trying to say was that "purse" to a British person always means a coin purse, so Jane's would certainly be small. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 04/30/03 05:49am >>> I don't know, Kate, since it's been many years since I've read _Jane_ (good weather for it right now, though....) I thought it might either be a case of a small "purse" (like a coin purse) being put into a modern-ordinary pocket, or perhaps a different version of a pocket. And that got me to thinking....(yeah, I know...it's dangerous, me thinking ) --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Sue wrote: > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> Someone mentioned reading _Jane Eyre_ as a child, and being puzzled >by a bit in the book where Jane puts her purse into her pocket, with the > >implication that it was a larger item. > > Do you mean the purse was large? Is this a confusion caused by the American use of "purse" for a handbag? I imagine Jane Eyre's purse as being a little knitted bag for holding coins. > > > My brain immediately thought of those pairs of pockets from the 18th c., >but Jane's 19th c.....Did women and girls still use those pairs of pockets in >the 19th c? Or am I completely off-base? > > I'm no 19th century expert, but I thought big pockets went out with the slimline Regency dresses, to be replaced by the "reticule" or handbag. I suppose when full skirts came back into fashion, a discreet pocket for money and a handkerchief was once more possible? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 04:32:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U8WNqa027942 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 04:32:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U8VKcf022426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:31:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U8VIG0015964; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:31:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3U8VFG0015942 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-99-131.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.131])3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACJ95659; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:31:07 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <04a301c30ef2$d72d98b0$29684ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:31:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Raising money for Charity with costume-advice needed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need your advice fellow costumers. For my sins I've been appointed fund raiser for the East Leicestershire branch of Friends of Chernobyl's children. We are hoping to bring 24 children to England in September of this year and need to raise the money quickly (more details of the charity at the end for those interested) I had an idea to raise money by auctioning costumes I no longer need or fit !! Have any of you tried this before ? Do you think an online auction such as ebay or a live auction would be better ? Any ideas on how to publicise this ? I would really value your input on this as I need to get it right :) FOCC is a UK charity who aims to bring the children affected by the Chernobyl disaster in Belarus out into fresh clean air with uncontaminated food for 1 month for at least 5 years, every month out of the radiation zone increases a child's life by 1-2 years, this is medical fact. The charity is self supporting and absolutely nobody is paid. 80% is Belorussian land was affected by the tragedy and it will be contaminated for another 24000 years. I'm putting a web site up at www.foccel.org.uk which will be active soon and give more details of what we plan to do and information on the project and children on an ongoing basis. Please take a look in a week or so when I hope to have a small "under construction" web page up and running . Many thanks for your time Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 08:35:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UCZXqa001389 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:35:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UCXHcf006535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:33:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UCXCBE022864; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UCX9BE022795 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a217.in-tch.com [66.62.107.17]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3UCDiv08851 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EAFC208.CB6EADCB@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:31:04 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about 19th c. pockets.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That makes way too much sense! In the U.S., at least in my experience, "purse" is a (perhaps regional) term used for something larger (as in "handbag"), and if you're referring to something smaller, you add an adjective--as in "coin purse." --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > What I was trying to say was that "purse" to a British person always means a coin purse, so Jane's would certainly be small. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 08:43:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UChYqa005462 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:43:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UCgZcf007070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UCgZBE026478; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail4.atl.registeredsite.com (nobody@mail4.atl.registeredsite.com [64.224.219.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UCgWBF026449 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (libra.hosting4u.net [209.35.191.113]) h3UCgUMa025523 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:42:31 -0400 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.41.169]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:42:30 -0500 From: "A.Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List \(E-mail\)" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:42:24 -0400 Message-ID: <008f01c30f15$f4647520$336f6f6f@systemsfirm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Teaching costuming (was: Costumer's Dream Career?) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine wrote: Kimiko, Stephen and Lee; you took the words right out of my mouth! I finally found the money vs satisfaction balance a few years ago. I also found teaching others to sew, instead of just sewing for them, very satisfactory. That is probably what kept me going as long as I did, his will be my 25th year participating in our local faire (for most of those years it was a not-for-profit faire so at least all of us working for nothing felt there was some benefit going somewhere). I am not sure what exactly I would choose in costuming for a dream career but I know I would like satisfaction from it first, and then enough money to at least pay the bills, and have an occasional trip over the pond to do research :). Catherine - This is what I've found most satisfying - I spent an afternoon showing a friend how to make a simple skirt, and not only was it fun, I learned I COULD convey what I knew, at least a little! - So now when folks ask me to make something for them, I tell them no, but I'll show you how to do it yourself! - Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 09:11:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDB5qa005547 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UD9xcf008935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:09:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UD9w68007666; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UD9s68007627 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.107] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A802DB401AA; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:56:34 -0400 Message-ID: <009701c30f1a$3a1002c0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304290548.h3T5mr0h018560@net.indra.com><057901c30e55$6cb77fc0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><005201c30e60$c0637a60$9debcacf@susan><52453.162.119.64.111.1051632320.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com><008c01c30e94$51290fa0$0400a8c0@comcast.net><002f01c30ea3$acea4c00$675183d1@rmitchellras> <005f01c30ea7$c5533dc0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:13:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, this is how I began, and built my business on recreating shape and silhouette for theater...on and off stage. I have called it"shaking my magic wand". The problems begin with actors and other people not respecting the Costume for its age or use. If it is old, it is expendable. If it is new, it shouldn't cost too much, because after all, it is only for theater or will only be worn once! I figured out some time ago that value is determined by monetary cost and payment. I've been running my business out of my home (one third of the space of the house) almost from the beginning. This has had its advantages and disadvantages. As I am in a 'curbing mode', I realize that this home base business has been one of the problems causing customers to expect I will meet their need cheaper than Main Street establishments. By upping my pay expectations, I find that their perception of what I do tend to make them look on me and my work as professional. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? > Kathleen, > > Maybe if someone could start with a modern dress and embellish it. I can > take about anything and make it look somewhat like another time period or > vintage. Just add a little here and there. There are very few really new > designs... most of them are based on another time period... a sleeve from > here, a skirt from there. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 09:13:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDD0qa005553 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:13:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDC0cf009059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDBx68008791; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDBu68008714 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:11:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a217.in-tch.com [66.62.107.17]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3UCrnv23399 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EAFCBE9.9DCD4B9B@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:13:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Local/regional history was [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? References: <00be01c30ee4$d7ea6160$820377d8@w7m1l6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it may be a combination of lack of awareness and indifference, myself. Here in Montana, we have much of the same sort of history that you do in California, although we don't have any of that marvelous Spanish/Mexican history. I mostly remember Montana history in high school as being all about mining and fur traders and Indian massacres. I was well into a college degree before I discovered some of the pre-Gold Rush history of the Pacific Northwest that *is* available. --sue Stephen Bergdahl wrote: > > That is a problem with the schools out here in California. They only teach > history of California starting with the 1850's. But we have a much longer > history than just when the US stole California from Mexico. The pre-gold > rush history is rich with intrusting people and clothing. But it is all > sweep under the rug, because a lot of people don't want to face facts. > > Stephen - On his soap box. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 09:26:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDQeqa005609 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:26:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDPccf009996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDPb68015076; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop018.verizon.net (pop018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDPY68015014 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:25:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by pop018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430132528.HYUO17739.pop018.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:25:28 -0500 Message-ID: <005601c30f1f$50204200$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net><5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net><013e01c30ec5$fb9380c0$6501a8c0@sharon> <003801c30ecd$a5de4e00$d71277d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:49:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop018.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:25:28 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3UDQeqa005609 Status: RO >I started historically costuming at a museum that ran living history events and it was a great trade off for me, my time for library access and experience and it even lead to a paid job offer Hi Lisa, I only wish there were such an opportunity in my area. Not only is there no museums in the area, but even living history, re-enactment availability is non-existant for the most part. Maybe someday! Sure sounds like you were thinking ahead! Thanks for sharing! Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 09:29:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDT6qa005612 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:29:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDS3cf010213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDS368016113; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDS068016073 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a217.in-tch.com [66.62.107.17]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3UD9pv04790 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EAFCFAB.5D67B40E@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:29:15 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My ideal career would combine the best aspects of reenactment and research--my two biggest loves being research and making things. I mostly do pre-17th c. stuff (because my reenactment group is the SCA), but there are lots of other styles and times that I'd enjoy learning about, as well. I'd *love* to be able to afford being a research geek--Robin's descriptions of what it would take to work with those volumes on Edward, for instance, just make me drool. If I could have *anything*, I'd like to act as a consultant in textile conservation and historic costuming, and I'd travel--so many months at this museum, so many at this, etc., etc. With practical experience in recreating garments, I'd also be able to work with groups or institutions to give them better accuracy in their costuming needs, whether that's for docents, or displays of "what medieval Dubliners would have worn" or whatever. And, since this is a "dream" career, I'd take classes and learn all about setting up a really good website that specialized in needlework and costuming--sort of a cross between Penny's site and Drea's site, and bits from some of the rest of you. Wouldn't it be neat, for instance, to see the steps taken in conserving a garment done in diary format? I've worked, some, in a costume shop (local University theatre) and enjoyed it, but wouldn't want to do it for a living. Theatrical costuming is amazing and creative, and I love some of the things I've seen, especially on this list!, but I know myself well enough to know that I'm much more of a "leave me alone with a stack of books in a library and let me work and then I'm happy" type. --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:00:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE0nqa005664 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDv7cf012582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDv67t000536; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UDv47t000511 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-004-168.jps.net ([216.119.4.168] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19As50-0005ws-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:57:02 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c30f22$2407c6e0$a80477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net><5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net><013e01c30ec5$fb9380c0$6501a8c0@sharon><003801c30ecd$a5de4e00$d71277d8@pavilion> <005601c30f1f$50204200$6501a8c0@sharon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:09:38 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, Sharon, I found it does pay to think ahead. You might find this arrangement with the costumegallery works well for you now, but later on, and maybe this is not the position you'll be in, but just in case I'll bring it up, someone who is judging your value as a potential employee and is deciding how much money to offer you, is going to ask why you did this work for free, especially as it is not for a non-profit organization, which is considered a more acceptable place to give services freely to. I believe the labour laws do allow for professional internships without pay, but as we have discussed, costuming isn't really viewed by the public as a professional occupation so that is another image obstacle. You could, contract your services to the CostumeGallery with compensation being tuition. It depends on your age and experience, but after your early twenties, doing work "for free" will often be seen will simply be seen as not valuing yourself, unless its just a friendship thing, which is also less credible resume wise but has other intangible rewards. I don't really know your position in life or goals, but I thought I would offer some advise from someone who has overcome the "volunteer" image/stigma to my advantage. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? >I started historically costuming at a museum that ran living history events and it was a great trade off for me, my time for library access and experience and it even lead to a paid job offer Hi Lisa, I only wish there were such an opportunity in my area. Not only is there no museums in the area, but even living history, re-enactment availability is non-existant for the most part. Maybe someday! Sure sounds like you were thinking ahead! Thanks for sharing! Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE7Wqa005683 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:07:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE4Mcf013287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE4L7t004503; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13409.mail.yahoo.com (web13409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UE4H7t004470 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430140417.57470.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:04:17 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:04:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ironically, I was talking to my sister yesterday about another friend's venture into the bridal boutiques in NYC -- apparently brides are willing to pay thousands of dollars for disposable dresses that are shoddily put together and intended to be worn only once. Another friend of mine was looking into making bridal and prom dresses. I think she could have made a go of it; that's one of the few areas where a costume designer can make money, from what little I've heard about it. One could make bridal gowns as a way of supporting the rest of one's costume habit... I occasionally contemplate changing jobs, going back to school to get a degree in textile conservation or something. But I'm probably more employable, and make more money, in the database management job I have now. Sad... -- Mara --- Jennifer Sena wrote: > Reality isn't pessimism. The fact is that in our disposable world > people > are getting so out of practice in actually looking at quality. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:09:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE9Iqa005686 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:09:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE8Icf013631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE8H7t006619; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:08:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13401.mail.yahoo.com (web13401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UE8F7t006598 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:08:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430140814.71173.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:08:14 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:08:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00b201c30ebb$7414cfa0$510b77d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Internships, was Re: A costumer's dream job? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, You're in Richmond, right? Have you thought about advertising your internships at local colleges? I'd have loved to have an opportunity like that when I was in school... We were encouraged to do internships, but the only one I was interested in and interviewed for was with the FBI academy in Quantico (didn't take it, transportation was a problem). Costume history would have been MUCH more interesting! I was a history/religion major at Mary Washington College in Fredericksburg, VA. That's within reasonable driving distance from Richmond, I think -- there were students commuting to DC to do their internships, which is about the same distance in the opposite direction. I'm sure there are other schools in the area with internship programs, too. -- Mara --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > .......I kind of hate to point out the obvious Fran, but Penny just > offered > UNPAID internships for people to prepare material to be published > on her > website.... (snip) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:10:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEAwqa005689 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:10:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE9tcf013783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE9t7t007586; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop017.verizon.net (pop017pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UE9q7t007522 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by pop017.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430140947.ESEJ27254.pop017.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <008401c30f25$809d39a0$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net><5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net><013e01c30ec5$fb9380c0$6501a8c0@sharon><003801c30ecd$a5de4e00$d71277d8@pavilion><005601c30f1f$50204200$6501a8c0@sharon> <002601c30f22$2407c6e0$a80477d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:33:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop017.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:09:46 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3UEAwqa005689 Status: RO Hi Lisa, Thanks for the insight and I do appreciate it. I don't anticipate I will ever have the option of costume as a full fledged career, (sadly)especially not in the area where I live...the opportunity is just not there, so for me, right now the learning experience is the thing. I also have no doubt that Penny would be more than willing to give me a reference in the event something should come up in my area. Bear in mind that my internship involves not only "costume" per say, but also web dvelopment, research, etc. and could be applicable in more than one area. But again, I do truly appreciate your advice and interest and will surely keep it in mind. Thanks again! Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:18:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEIJqa005700 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:18:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEH8cf014532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:17:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEH77t011716; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13407.mail.yahoo.com (web13407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UEH57t011706 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430141704.7336.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:17:04 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:17:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <011801c30eba$ee818f40$befc8218@hopperflop2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, me too! I've more or less decided I'm not going to sew costumes for anyone other than myself, my hubby, and one or two friends who really GET the whole craftsmanship / doing it RIGHT thing, instead of wanting something quick and cheap. That way I can sew to my satisfaction, on the projects I want to work on. We usually work out barter agreements, books or fabric for finished clothing... The one exception to this is 18th c. stays -- so far I've only run into one customer that I couldn't work with, because the market for stays among reenactors will bear a decent price for a well-made product. (The one customer I had problems with isn't a reenactor -- she didn't want period stays, she wanted a costume.) Some people want cheap stays, but they eventually come to understand that you get what you pay for, and either pay for a good set or learn to make their own. So, I'm still willing to take on stays orders, but only two or three a year (I burn out if I do more), and only from people who are local so that they can travel to my house for a fitting. Publishing -- sometimes the academic books reach fewer people, and make less of an impact, than what's written for a broader audience. And some of the best stuff (from a reenacting point of view) isn't written by people with PhDs, it's written by dedicated amateurs. Look at the articles written for _Muzzleloader_ by people like Beth Gilgun... So it depends on what audience you're trying to reach. :D -- Mara --- Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > This is a complicated question for me, because I'm split about > 70/30 on this > one.... > > About 30% of me would love to be a film or theater costumer -- in > the past > few years I've been working on improving my construction skills, > and learned > to draft my own patterns which has been great. However, each time > I make a > costume for a friend or customer, I find myself irritated by the > experience. > Usually I'm not getting paid enough to make it worth my while (both > a > problem of me undervaluing myself and them undervaluing me), and > the > customer usually doesn't appreciate the same things in costumes > that I do > (attempting to be as historically accurate as possible and > appreciating fine > construction work over glitz). Obviously this is different than > working in > theater or film, but there is a lot of joy in costuming for myself. > (snip) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:35:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEZrqa005739 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEYocf016314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEYn7t022802; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web13401.mail.yahoo.com (web13401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UEYk7t022774 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:34:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430143445.75997.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:34:45 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:34:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429195037.00a92cd0@pop.sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Internships, was Re: A costumer's dream job? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, If I understand the unpaid internship thing (would have to go back and read old posts for the specifics), it's actually a fairly common practice for college students, etc., to take paid or unpaid internships in a field in which they're interested in order to get their foot in the door and learn the business from the ground up. Say, for example, that the intern were given the duty of scanning in a bunch of old documents, say, Harper's Bazaar or the Lady's Home Journal. This is grunt labor -- boring, routine, and not worth paying someone high wages, also not worth the intern's time to do. However, if the intern is also given the opportunity to help with other aspects of the project, then it's worth it to the intern to do the grunt labor to get that opportunity. Another example -- in the company where I work, we have an internship program (paid); they do basic filing and copying, but are also allowed to help out with organizing events and so on. Real businesses make use of internships, both paid and unpaid. It all comes down to what you want the intern for, and what the intern wants out of the job. If you don't have a need for them in your business, so be it. But that doesn't mean they don't have a useful purpose in the rest of the business world. -- Mara --- Lavolta Press wrote: > My paying freelancers is not a question of my "choosing" to pay > them > because I have lots of spare cash to play with. When I hire someone > I > expect them to have certain specialized professional skills and > experience. > I require them to work under supervision, under contract, and to a > deadline. I screen and interview candidates very carefully, and > choose the > best available. They, in turn, are doubtless interviewing with and > screening other potential employers. Probably no one with the > skills I need > (from time to time) would work for me for free. And if they did > want to, > for some reason, I wouldn't feel comfortable about placing the > demands on > them that I do. I'm running a business, not a hobby. (snip) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:41:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEfjqa005756 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:41:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEeIcf016953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEeH7t026121; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEeE7t026097 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:40:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-003-225.jps.net ([216.119.3.225] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Askn-00022x-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:40:14 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01c30f28$2e377240$a80477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2F019874@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030429144800.02ccd708@127.0.0.1><5.2.0.9.0.20030429170510.00aa5550@pop.sonic.net><5.2.0.9.0.20030429192646.00aed4b0@pop.sonic.net><013e01c30ec5$fb9380c0$6501a8c0@sharon><003801c30ecd$a5de4e00$d71277d8@pavilion><005601c30f1f$50204200$6501a8c0@sharon><002601c30f22$2407c6e0$a80477d8@pavilion> <008401c30f25$809d39a0$6501a8c0@sharon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:52:52 -0700 Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO no problem, and no doubt Penny appreciates your contributions and would likewise support you. The advice goes not just for costuming but for all careers, weeb design etc. I think compensation comes in a variety of forms but I'm a realist enough to know the world doesn't always see it that way so I try to have one foot in both worlds. good luck! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Hi Lisa, Thanks for the insight and I do appreciate it. I don't anticipate I will ever have the option of costume as a full fledged career, (sadly)especially not in the area where I live...the opportunity is just not there, so for me, right now the learning experience is the thing. I also have no doubt that Penny would be more than willing to give me a reference in the event something should come up in my area. Bear in mind that my internship involves not only "costume" per say, but also web dvelopment, research, etc. and could be applicable in more than one area. But again, I do truly appreciate your advice and interest and will surely keep it in mind. Thanks again! Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 10:55:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEtZqa005801 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UErBcf018368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEr77t004384; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UEr47t004357 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-14-234.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.234] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AsxD-0002Kd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:53:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:49:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <00be01c30ee4$d7ea6160$820377d8@w7m1l6> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That is a problem with the schools out here in California. They only > teach > history of California starting with the 1850's. But we have a much > longer > history than just when the US stole California from Mexico. The > pre-gold > rush history is rich with intrusting people and clothing. But it is > all > sweep under the rug, because a lot of people don't want to face facts. Hi Stephen, That's exactly what I was trying to get at. As a former 4th grader (that's when they teach the kids about California history), I was surprised to learn, by way of my culturally aware mother, that California had a rich relationship with Spain long before there was gold in them hills. How else did the missions get here? Duh... ;) There's not too much interest on the surface in Native American history here either. It's just one more token that's sort of tossed in to sound PC but never dealt with in any great length. What I have noticed, being that my fiance is from a HUGE Latino farm worker family, is that there is a lot of cultural awareness heaped on our Mexican heritage more than there is with our Native American history. This of course has to do with politics as much as cultural awareness... As the arts are always inevitably tied into politics in some way. ;) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 11:04:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UF44qa005830 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:04:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UF30cf019451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UF2x5Y010900; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:02:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.ptr.worldaxxs.net.210.18.65.in-addr.arpa [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UF2v5Y010814 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (h-64-105-120-98.NYCMNY83.covad.net [64.105.120.98]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by webwarren.com (8.12.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h3UEtvT7003206 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:55:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430104714.040b2ef0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:02:31 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mara Riley wrote: >I occasionally contemplate changing jobs, going back to school to get >a degree in textile conservation or something. But I'm probably more >employable, and make more money, in the database management job I >have now. Sad... Thinking about this whole thread... I'd probably get frustrated having to be creative and sew endlessly, so a career designing costumes or sewing them would not last long. I enjoy research, but after a while that gets frustrating as well. OTOH, that research has to be presented *somewhere* in a manner that is accessible, and that is something that I probably *could* do for at least five to ten years before getting bored with it. I know I've said to some folk that I am so burned out on the database industry that it's riduculous (and have nowhere to go careerwise if/when this place is closed down: indexing is a dead-end job in a dead-end profession, and so is small-office computer support/LAN administration), but given the whole "dream" thing, I think I'd like to design, create the basic schema for, and probably enter at least a couple hundred records for, a worldwide database of clothing and costume information: books, extant garments, extant fabrics, documents, media, etc. This database would include the probable dating of the information, the edition/version of each item that has been re-released, subfields in which to note dates and citation/A&I (abstracting and indexing) info for each newly-published speculation on a piece (and each time its information has been updated), where the item is located, its condition at each time it's been inspected, etc. The master computers housing the primary copy of this database would probably need to be housed at a university or some other large organization with a strong interest in textiles and costumes, though the database would need to be mirrored at several places worldwide. Ideally, it would be funded by grants from the industry and from wealthy donors, and available at several levels of access for different subscription fees (Just want to look at thumbnail pictures and where the pieces are? Cheap. Want to know the entire provenance? Pay more.// Just want to look at one medium? Cheap. Want to look at all media? More money.). Unfortunately, by the time I would have finally entered a couple of hundred records entered in the system, I'd be burned out and ready to move on to something else... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 11:10:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UFA9qa005849 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:10:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UF8rcf020116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UF8o5Y014724; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe17.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UF8l5Y014622 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:08:42 -0700 Received: from 24.201.196.91 by oe17.law8.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:08:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030430071830.25590.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 17th century shoes Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:07:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2003 15:08:42.0274 (UTC) FILETIME=[63224820:01C30F2A] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" > Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien I know this is off topic, but I LOVE your tagline. It has to be my very favourite quote of all Tolkien books, and one of my favourite quote of all books I've read. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 11:13:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UFDrqa005855 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UFCgcf020611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UFCf5Y017747; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UFCc5Y017669 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:12:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197]) by mtaout11.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE5005LCWTY5O@mtaout11.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:10:51 -0500 From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3EAFE77B.2030702@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 Subject: [h-cost] Costume business, internships, volunteering and value X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, Lots of interesting insite into how others think about the business. (some of this is a little OT but explains how I view it all) My studio is located in my home. But I avoid calling it a home based business, simply for the reasons that Kathleen stated. For some reason people perceive it as being a hobby/business. The fact is though, since my overhead is lower, I make better money. The down side is I never get away from work, and I never escape from home. :D About 3 years ago I made the decision to price my work according to what I wanted to make. No compromises. Yes there are people who do not wish to pay that, and I am fine with it. They can go somewhere else. When people ask me why something costs so much. I ask them what they make in an hour, and why what they do costs so much? This usually shuts them up. I do not spend any time apologizing for the cost. I simply say that we use quality items, gaurantee our work and replace something for free if there is a problem. Amazingly, my dentist husband, gets the same questions... undervaluing a service is not just a costumers plight evidently. I volunteered at our local renfest for years, as a costume person (along with Catherine from whom I learned a lot). The only economic compensation was comp tickets if we wanted them. I had a great time and used the experience as motivation to keep learning stuff on a daily basis. I still volunteer my time with local community theatre, but am getting so busy it is getting hard to find the time. I also have the occasional intern. The last one asked to intern with me, so she could learn how to create bodices and hats. I did not pay her money, but she received an education. Fair trade I think. My husband is a volunteer at the dental school here once a week. He supervises and teaches graduate dental students that are in an internship program at the dental school. The benefits for him... He has free access to the Medical Library and the staff for research, a fantastic parking spot, and can share his knowledge with others and be appreciated for it. He also increases his learning curve by picking up on new technologies sooner than others not so involved. My son also volunteers his time for free in theater and the art community. Which drives his girlfriend nuts... she is one that believes volunteering for anything other than a charity is giving stuff away needlessly. The point I think I am trying to make is, your outlook and how you perceive yourself informs others on how to view you. I value what I do, whether it is for pay, or for free. And I believe that I am valued by others because of that. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 12:08:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UG8fqa006051 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:08:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UG7Qcf027463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:07:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UG7Lqs028802; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80107.mail.yahoo.com (web80107.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UG7Iqs028754 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430160718.20519.qmail@web80107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:07:18 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:07:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304292327.h3TNRaNQ014173@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny wrote: <<...I would have assumed that California was very arts driven... am I wrong?...>> Not exactly. California is very arts-driven, but the entire area of the arts is extremely competitive. I can speak only of Los Angeles and the SF Bay Area, as those are the only 2 areas I've lived in, but I think it holds true for most of the state. For the most part, the arts in Southern California revolve around performing arts and "The Industry." While there are a great many opportunities for people to work in the arts, the talent pool is large, deep, and includes everyone from high school students to seasoned Hollywood professionals. While the SF Bay Area is less competitive, there also aren't as many productions, and it's still close enough to L.A. that productions can "pull" from Southern California for the expertise they need. Because the pool is so large, it's not difficult to find people that will work for a credit line, simply because it's something they can add to their resume. I suspect NYC is the same (they just hide it better). Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA "Of course I recognize her. Who else would wear ruby slippers with those socks?" --Wicked Witch "Wizard of Oz", Act 1, Scene 7 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 12:35:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UGZEqa006102 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:35:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UGYBcf000719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:34:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UGY9qs020262; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UGY5qs020145 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWo0vgSH75SQH7UE2z2yXMEfXdRMsZEwWSA==">; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:33:15 PDT Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HW2DSP6E; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:33:15 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:05:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim store needed... Message-ID: <20030430.123150.-230009.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: catpurson@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cheeptrims sells to retail customers too. If you buy enough to look like a business they ask for information and give you wholesale prices. I don't buy enough, but figure their retail prices are way better than most. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 12:58:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UGwGqa006157 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UGt1dP003197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UGhCqs027370; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:43:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UGguqs027056 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:42:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.110] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9EDC6701A4; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:29:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c30f37$fbb3fa40$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3EAFE77B.2030702@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume business, internships, volunteering and value Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:46:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nicely said, Linda. You experience is kin to mine overall. It just took me longer to draw my lines. The first time I said "No" was empowering! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] Costume business, internships, volunteering and value > Wow, > Lots of interesting insite into how others think about the business. > (some of this is a little OT but explains how I view it all) > > My studio is located in my home. But I avoid calling it a home based business, simply for > the reasons that Kathleen stated. For some reason people perceive it as being a > hobby/business. The fact is though, since my overhead is lower, I make better money. The > down side is I never get away from work, and I never escape from home. :D > > About 3 years ago I made the decision to price my work according to what I wanted to make. > No compromises. Yes there are people who do not wish to pay that, and I am fine with > it. They can go somewhere else. When people ask me why something costs so much. I ask > them what they make in an hour, and why what they do costs so much? This usually shuts > them up. I do not spend any time apologizing for the cost. I simply say that we use > quality items, gaurantee our work and replace something for free if there is a problem. > > Amazingly, my dentist husband, gets the same questions... undervaluing a service is not > just a costumers plight evidently. > > I volunteered at our local renfest for years, as a costume person (along with Catherine > from whom I learned a lot). The only economic compensation was comp tickets if we wanted > them. I had a great time and used the experience as motivation to keep learning stuff on > a daily basis. I still volunteer my time with local community theatre, but am getting so > busy it is getting hard to find the time. > > I also have the occasional intern. The last one asked to intern with me, so she could > learn how to create bodices and hats. I did not pay her money, but she received an > education. Fair trade I think. > > My husband is a volunteer at the dental school here once a week. He supervises and > teaches graduate dental students that are in an internship program at the dental school. > The benefits for him... He has free access to the Medical Library and the staff for > research, a fantastic parking spot, and can share his knowledge with others and be > appreciated for it. He also increases his learning curve by picking up on new > technologies sooner than others not so involved. > > My son also volunteers his time for free in theater and the art community. Which drives > his girlfriend nuts... she is one that believes volunteering for anything other than a > charity is giving stuff away needlessly. > > The point I think I am trying to make is, your outlook and how you perceive yourself > informs others on how to view you. I value what I do, whether it is for pay, or for free. > And I believe that I am valued by others because of that. > -- > Linda Thompson > > Attitude Is Everything > http://corsetsandcostumes.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:08:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UH87qa006199 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UH70cf004696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UH6xda018248; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80104.mail.yahoo.com (web80104.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UH6tda018196 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430170653.56798.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:06:53 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304300213.h3U2DSRv017079@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of being unpaid... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, I'll freely admit it--the only pay you'll get for this hard work is lunch, my gratitude, and the egoboo from seeing your work help a bunch of pretty nice kids do a really big musical. I'm scheduling a "sewing hell" for "Oz" on Saturday, May 3, from 9:00 - approximately 3:00 p.m. It will be at Hogan High School, 850 Rosewood St., Vallejo. You need to bring your own portable sewing machine and a pair of scissors; I'll supply everything else, including fabric, thread, designs, trims, etc. I particularly need people that know serious sewing, as I've got 14 gold and black Cossack-style coats to build for the Winkies. If you can make it, please contact me off-list so I can give you directions. Thanks a bunch in advance. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA "Of course I recognize her. Who else would wear ruby slippers with those socks?" --Wicked Witch "Wizard of Oz", Act 1, Scene 7 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:15:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHFLqa006257 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:15:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UH57cf004432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UH55da016801; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop015.verizon.net (pop015pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UH50da016658 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by pop015.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430170455.INPR6016.pop015.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:04:55 -0500 Message-ID: <00be01c30f3d$f84e2b40$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3EAFE77B.2030702@comcast.net> <000d01c30f37$fbb3fa40$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume business, internships, volunteering and value Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:28:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop015.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:04:55 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3UHFLqa006257 Status: RO >> The point I think I am trying to make is, your outlook and how you perceive yourself > informs others on how to view you. I value what I do, whether it is for pay, or for free. > And I believe that I am valued by others because of that. Very well said, Linda....I agree 100%!!~ Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:16:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHGCqa006271 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:16:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHEpcf005591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHEmda024421; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:14:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UHEida024356 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 31672 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 17:14:43 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 17:14:43 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-190.sonic.net [209.148.112.190]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3UHEgl11732 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:14:42 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430101515.00aede10@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:15:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <01bd01c30ee0$c1ab5480$0400a8c0@comcast.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030429170141.02ccd708@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429204648.02c620a0@127.0.0.1> <5.2.0.9.0.20030429224720.00a9c2d8@pop.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, since you accused me of starting a flame war I thought you _were_ talking to me. Fran At 02:21 AM 4/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Fran, > >I wasn't even talking to you... give it a rest! > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com >----- Original Message ----- Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:17:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHH6qa006294 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:17:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHG6cf005723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHG6da025562; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHFCda024666 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1ef.7d01c57 (17526) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:14:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <1ef.7d01c57.2be15e8e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:14:54 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Local/regional history was O/T X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2003 6:13:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > I think it may be a combination of lack of awareness and indifference, > myself. Here in Montana, we have much of the same sort of history that > you do in California, although we don't have any of that marvelous > Spanish/Mexican history. I mostly remember Montana history in high > school as being all about mining and fur traders and Indian massacres. > I was well into a college degree before I discovered some of the > pre-Gold Rush history of the Pacific Northwest that *is* available. > --sue But how are we supposed to change that? One thing I hated as a History Major was that you were required to have a major interest and two minor interests to graduate. But you couldn't pick Major: European History through the Renaissance, Minor: US History through WW2 and then Minor: California. It had to be Major: European History through the Renaissance, Minor: Asia Minor: Latin America or something similar. (At least here in California) I found it rathr upsetting because the only time I got to study California History and get credit for it, was when I was in the 4th grade and it was required. Not to mention never having a chance to study the history of Alaska, Hawaii, Texas, Arizona, Montana ... etc. I found it very frustrating! But that is enough for my off topic rant. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:21:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHL5qa006328 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:21:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHJucf006187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHJtda028429; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHJpda028316 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.14d.1eaf0ad8 (17526) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:19:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <14d.1eaf0ad8.2be15fa7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:19:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2003 7:55:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, sarah@elizabethanlady.com writes: > That's exactly what I was trying to get at. As a former 4th grader > (that's when they teach the kids about California history), I was > surprised to learn, by way of my culturally aware mother, that > California had a rich relationship with Spain long before there was > gold in them hills. How else did the missions get here? Duh... ;) > > There's not too much interest on the surface in Native American history > here either. It's just one more token that's sort of tossed in to > sound PC but never dealt with in any great length. What I have > noticed, being that my fiance is from a HUGE Latino farm worker family, > is that there is a lot of cultural awareness heaped on our Mexican > heritage more than there is with our Native American history. This of > course has to do with politics as much as cultural awareness... As the > arts are always inevitably tied into politics in some way. ;) Acutally, in my case it was different. Maybe I lucked out, but we didn't even start on the Goldrush until the 2nd semester when I took that class. The missions were very important in my study of Cali History. Not to mention studying the Chumash Indians before Serra came through and distroyed their way of life. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:24:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHOaqa006351 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:24:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHNXcf006622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:23:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHNXda001734; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:23:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UHNUda001698 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 28397 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 17:23:29 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 17:23:29 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-190.sonic.net [209.148.112.190]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3UHNSo22575 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:23:28 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430102300.00aafd48@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:24:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internships, was Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <20030430143445.75997.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429195037.00a92cd0@pop.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:34 AM 4/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Fran, >If I understand the unpaid internship thing (would have to go back >and read old posts for the specifics), it's actually a fairly common >practice for college students, etc., to take paid or unpaid >internships in a field in which they're interested in order to get >their foot in the door and learn the business from the ground up. If you want unexperienced trainees, that's an option. My point is I need experienced employees, and they don't work for free. Nor do I want them to. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:27:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHRjqa006386 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:27:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHQicf007092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHQhda004400; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHQcda004256 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:26:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.50.1bf7b33d (17526) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:26:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <50.1bf7b33d.2be16139@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:26:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [h-cost] Paying for the Library X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/29/2003 9:25:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > As I said before, tomorrow we are turning the Gallery's Library over to a > pay site. Then you will start to see all of our hard work of the interns, > review committee, and our staff. Our goal is to make the Library the > largest online costuming resource with actual articles and images from the > periods represented. I have literally thousands of articles and images to > go online. I am also publishing my color names documentation through the > library. As the Library starts to generate sufficient funds, we will hope > to hire the best from our intern pool. I hope at that time to begin > purchasing the higher end publications from pre-1800 to put online in the > Library. > I am sorry if I have missed this. But how much are you planning to charge? How is one going to be expected to pay? That sort of thing. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:41:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHfCqa006500 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:41:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHe1cf008881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHe0da014929; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHdwda014849 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:39:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430173952.NOTB12592.out001.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:39:52 -0500 Message-ID: <00df01c30f42$da1e8fc0$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429195037.00a92cd0@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030430102300.00aafd48@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internships, was Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:03:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:39:52 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3UHfCqa006500 Status: RO >If you want unexperienced trainees, that's an option. My point is I need experienced employees, and they don't work for free. Nor do I want them to. I don't believe anyone mentioned that I, or anyone else, am an inexperienced trainee...simply that the degree or type of experience may be different from what is being gained by an internship. And again, at the risk of repeating myself, "free" is a relative term. If one only understands "value" in terms of monetary reward, I can understand that being paid in the traditional sense is important, and I have no quarrel with that. I guess my perception of value is just a little different. Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:42:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHgkqa006509 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:42:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHfZcf009095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHfYda016205; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:41:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHfUda016112 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00967 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:00:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:00:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Manor House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apparently there's another modern-people-in-period-setting reality series going on right now on PBS. I've missed it so far; I may try to catch the end. It's set in Edwardian England; that's all I know. (Usually there's enough discussion on this list to clue me in to these, but I think so far no one's mentioned this one.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:48:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHmtqa006530 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHlOcf009917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHlLda020882; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80108.mail.yahoo.com (web80108.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UHlIda020806 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430174717.69353.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:47:17 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:47:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304301404.h3UE4c7u004617@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Raising money for Charity with costume-advice needed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mel wrote: <> Mel-- Sorry if somebody else has already answered this. We've used a "dual auction" system for the California Preservation Foundation for the past 20 years, and it's been pretty successful. The smaller/less valuable/less "flashy" items are auctioned off via a silent auction (the electronic equivalent would be eBay) and the really flashy, big-ticket items are auctioned off during a live auction held at a gala dinner. The auction usually raises $25,000-$30,000 for the charity. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA "Of course I recognize her. Who else would wear ruby slippers with those socks?" --Wicked Witch "Wizard of Oz", Act 1, Scene 7 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:49:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHnoqa006533 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHmbcf010139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHmada021866; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHmZda021848 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-16-2.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.2] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Avh4-0002pe-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:48:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:45:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7B10AD93-7B33-11D7-9596-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Apparently there's another modern-people-in-period-setting reality > series > going on right now on PBS. I've missed it so far; I may try to catch > the > end. It's set in Edwardian England; that's all I know. (Usually there's > enough discussion on this list to clue me in to these, but I think so > far > no one's mentioned this one.) I'm surprised no one mentioned it. It's "Manor House" on PBS. In my area, they're showing the final two installments tonight. I've found it the best "reality history" series so far... Way better than either "1900 House" and "Frontier House", probably because they've got actual rules and guidelines to set them up, rather than just tossing a bunch of 21st century people into these roles without any idea of what they're supposed to do (ie. there's a lot less "whining" going on than in the previous two series). Of course, the kids on the serving staff are having issues with the crappy living standards of servants in Edwardian England, but that's expected. And the costumes are lovely. :) Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 13:54:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHsWqa006543 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHrFcf010672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHrEda025468; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UHrBda025444 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 36659 invoked by uid 1005); 30 Apr 2003 17:53:03 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.776888 secs); 30 Apr 2003 17:53:03 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.776888 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 17:53:01 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:53:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Drea Leed To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House In-Reply-To: <7B10AD93-7B33-11D7-9596-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Message-ID: <20030430135205.E27610-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I'm surprised no one mentioned it. It's "Manor House" on PBS. In my > area, they're showing the final two installments tonight. I've found > it the best "reality history" series so far... Way better than either > "1900 House" and "Frontier House", probably because they've got actual > rules and guidelines to set them up, rather than just tossing a bunch > of 21st century people into these roles without any idea of what > they're supposed to do (ie. there's a lot less "whining" going on than > in the previous two series). Of course, the kids on the serving staff > are having issues with the crappy living standards of servants in > Edwardian England, but that's expected. And the costumes are lovely. :) > Yup. I found it entertaining that two scullery maids quit in the episodes I saw, because the work was "too hard." Really gives us a great perspective on the crappy jobs our foremothers had to put up with... Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:00:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UI09qa006563 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:00:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHwocf011377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHwn2i029233; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UHwl2i029125 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200304301758.h3UHwl2i029125@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc57 (rwcrwbc57.attbi.com[204.127.198.46]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <20030430175841052004vvnfe>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:58:41 +0000 Received: from [12.229.88.126] by rwcrwbc57; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:58:35 +0000 From: Gia_Gavino@attbi.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:58:35 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 23 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: R2lhX0dhdmlub0BhdHRiaS5jb20= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! Yep, another one. I caught about 1 1/2 hour of it last night. I did enjoy looking at the costumes, and hear about the strict codes of conduct and about how the societal strata was so rigidly adhered to. However, the incessant complaining of the people, from the all the folks on each of the 'stairs', about the 'rules' was off-putting. I think I would have enjoyed it better if the participants were folks that knew a little about what they are doing, and talk about those aspects, so the viewers could get a deeper appreciation for the efforts it took in those times. The Narrator is quite good, with the comments of the differences between Edwardian period and now. And the romantic complications 'below stairs' is making this interesting, too. Getting to see the how this situation was handled (or will be handled in this series) is intriguing. Happt Stitches! Gia/Giacinta > > Apparently there's another modern-people-in-period-setting reality series > going on right now on PBS. I've missed it so far; I may try to catch the > end. It's set in Edwardian England; that's all I know. (Usually there's > enough discussion on this list to clue me in to these, but I think so far > no one's mentioned this one.) > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:05:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UI5aqa006586 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:05:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UI4Pcf012263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UI4O2i004106; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:04:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UI4L2i004005 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.5b.3897bc6d (16930) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:04:13 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <5b.3897bc6d.2be16a1c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:04:12 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2003 12:53:50 PM Central Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > > > >I'm surprised no one mentioned it. It's "Manor House" on PBS. In my > >area, they're showing the final two installments tonight. I've found > >it the best "reality history" series so far... Way better than either > >"1900 House" and "Frontier House", probably because they've got actual > >rules and guidelines to set them up, rather than just tossing a bunch > >of 21st century people into these roles without any idea of what > >they're supposed to do (ie. there's a lot less "whining" going on than > >in the previous two series). Of course, the kids on the serving staff > >are having issues with the crappy living standards of servants in > >Edwardian England, but that's expected. And the costumes are lovely. :) > > > > Yup. I found it entertaining that two scullery maids quit in the episodes > I saw, because the work was "too hard." Really gives us a great > perspective on the crappy jobs our foremothers had to put up with... > *&$%#@!! Dish Network/Cincinnati! I hunted and hunted for Manor House on the gazillion PBS stations (and the Manor House PBS website) and couldn't find it here on our local affiliates. I don't suppose anyone here is local to Cincinnati and knows where the heck Manor House is? Sarra Wryght http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:15:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIF2qa006629 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:15:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIAGdp012852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UI2F2i002117; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:02:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UI0Z2i000866 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 4197 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 18:00:33 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 18:00:33 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-190.sonic.net [209.148.112.190]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3UI0Qd26853 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:00:26 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430105751.00afaee0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:01:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internships, was Re: A costumer's dream job? In-Reply-To: <00df01c30f42$da1e8fc0$6501a8c0@sharon> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429195037.00a92cd0@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030430102300.00aafd48@pop.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I don't believe anyone mentioned that I, or anyone else, am an >inexperienced trainee...simply that the degree or type of experience may >be different from what is being gained by an internship. And again, at >the risk of repeating myself, "free" is a relative term. If one only >understands "value" in terms of monetary reward, I can understand that >being paid in the traditional sense is important, and I have no quarrel >with that. I guess my perception of value is just a little different. Of course I meant experience in the internship field. And if you're accusing me of valuing nothing but money--what I'm talking about is what _I pay other people_ in return for their work. They're hardly paying me! Though I don't think they're at all mercenary for wanting fair payment in return for years of previous experience and the hard work they do for me. Fran >Sharon > >Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past >http://www.grannyscloset.net > >The Costume Gallery >(on staff) >http://www.costumegallery.com/ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:19:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIJoqa006654 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:19:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIIYcf013899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIIW2i015417; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop017.verizon.net (pop017pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIIS2i015281 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop017 ([192.168.129.99]) by pop017.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430181823.GRPT27254.pop017.verizon.net@pop017> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:18:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-190-20021211) From: Ron Carnegie To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:18:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop017.verizon.net from [192.168.129.99] at Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:18:23 -0500 Message-Id: <20030430181823.GRPT27254.pop017.verizon.net@pop017> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: Kitsune242@aol.com > Date: 2003/04/30 Wed PM 01:19:35 EDT > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > > In a message dated 4/30/2003 7:55:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, > sarah@elizabethanlady.com writes: > > > > That's exactly what I was trying to get at. As a former 4th grader > > (that's when they teach the kids about California history), I was > > surprised to learn, by way of my culturally aware mother, that > > California had a rich relationship with Spain long before there was > > gold in them hills. How else did the missions get here? Duh... ;) > > > > There's not too much interest on the surface in Native American history > > here either. It's just one more token that's sort of tossed in to > > sound PC but never dealt with in any great length. What I have > > noticed, being that my fiance is from a HUGE Latino farm worker family, > > is that there is a lot of cultural awareness heaped on our Mexican > > heritage more than there is with our Native American history. This of > > course has to do with politics as much as cultural awareness... As the > > arts are always inevitably tied into politics in some way. ;) > > Acutally, in my case it was different. Maybe I lucked out, but we didn't > even start on the Goldrush until the 2nd semester when I took that class. > The missions were very important in my study of Cali History. Not to mention > studying the Chumash Indians before Serra came through and distroyed their > way of life. > > Kit > > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole This is interesting. I was taught very little about the California Indians, and their cultures were all wrapped up into one pan-californian goulash. We spent a lot opf time on Spanish California however, and the Spanish explorers or other parts of what would become the United States. They way we were taught this all ended with the Mexican revolution and then nothing happened untill the Bear Flag revolt! I remain, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:25:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIPMqa006666 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIOEcf014425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:24:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIOD2i019438; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIO82i019345 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h3UIO7TV025642 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.196.104] (as3-4-118.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.104]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIO1Ys025445 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200304292147.03111.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> <5.1.0.14.0.20030429111000.02c8d368@127.0.0.1> <200304292147.03111.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:14:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] A costumer's dream career? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:47 PM -0400 4/29/03, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Tuesday 29 April 2003 02:13 pm, Kimiko Small wrote: >> At 02:22 PM 4/29/2003 +0200, you wrote: >> >I have been asked to make theatre costumes but they expected me to work >> >for free. >> >> Why do people expect us to give of our talents and abilities for free? That >> is one thing I have seen over and over in the ren faire groups I work with, >> that the ladies are to dress everyone in their guild for free. Don't they >> realize that our abilities take time to master and that our time is as >> valuable as theirs? >> >> Do programmers (which my hubby is one) work for free? Do consultants work >> for free? Do sports people work for free? Why then are seamstresses/tailors >> expected to work for free, or even cheap? > >Look, people always expect to get free benefits from friends and >acquaintances. That's why lawyers and doctors have to learn to deal with >annoying requests for free legal/medical advice at cocktail parties and the >like. It's not just professional costumers. Really it isn't! :-) On the other hand, there are some professions that are less likely to attract this sort of request. I don't recall my father ever being importuned for chemistry lectures at parties! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:33:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIXYqa006691 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:33:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIWLcf015256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIWJ2i025561; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:32:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIWE2i025366 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.37.37ec8c78 (16930) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:32:07 -0400 (EDT) From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Message-ID: <37.37ec8c78.2be170a7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:32:07 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: How to get cigarette smell out of books? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2003 1:28:24 PM Central Standard Time, jen@netdefender.com writes: > The recent thread on finding a copy of Herald's _Renaissance Dress_ > book reminded me of an issue I have with a used book I picked up some > time back, which smells of cigarette smoke. Is there any way to take > the smell out? I have tried leaving it out in the open to air, which > seems to remove it for a time, but it always comes back. Any > suggestions? > Here's what I've done with some success. Take a ziplock freezer bag that the book will fit in, liberally shake baking soda all over the book and in it's pages, stick the bag with the book in it into the freezer for a week, take out the book and dust it off really good...smell B gone! Sarra Wryght http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:39:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIdCqa006699 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:39:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIQLdN014599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UILV2i017463; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailsite.netdefender.net (mail.netdefender.com [63.220.97.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UILR2i017431 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netdefender.com (unverified [63.220.97.2]) by mailsite.netdefender.net for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:16:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:21:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Jennifer Loggans To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030430071830.25590.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <8DD11DB9-7B38-11D7-ADCF-000393195F42@netdefender.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [h-cost] OT: How to get cigarette smell out of books? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The recent thread on finding a copy of Herald's _Renaissance Dress_ book reminded me of an issue I have with a used book I picked up some time back, which smells of cigarette smoke. Is there any way to take the smell out? I have tried leaving it out in the open to air, which seems to remove it for a time, but it always comes back. Any suggestions? Thanks! --Jen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:47:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIlqqa006719 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:47:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIkpcf016844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:46:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIkm2i006713; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:46:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIkk2i006625 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.105] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6F45AA0192; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:33:24 -0400 Message-ID: <002901c30f49$492cae00$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304301758.h3UHwl2i029125@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:49:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I too came in on the second segment last eve, and missed the first of the series altogether, but I formed an impression that the Family were somewhat upper crust in real life. Therefore their frustration at having to hold to the standards of a former life style were especially telling of how Times have changed. The presentation of the perfectly roasted boars head and having to endure eating a slice of the cheek was especially riviting. If they weren't already vegetarians, that might have done it. Some referances had already been made regarding the instructions to the chef about dishing more healthy (2003) fare, re creams and gravies. The poor butler who evidently is responsible for the manner and deportment of the whole household really took the silent reproof for the meal to heart. He evidently could have disuaded the chef from preparing such a speclicle. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House > Hi! Yep, another one. > > I caught about 1 1/2 hour of it last night. I did enjoy looking at the > costumes, and hear about the strict codes of conduct and about how the societal > strata was so rigidly adhered to. > > However, the incessant complaining of the people, from the all the folks on > each of the 'stairs', about the 'rules' was off-putting. I think I would have > enjoyed it better if the participants were folks that knew a little about what > they are doing, and talk about those aspects, so the viewers could get a deeper > appreciation for the efforts it took in those times. > > The Narrator is quite good, with the comments of the differences between > Edwardian period and now. And the romantic complications 'below stairs' is > making this interesting, too. Getting to see the how this situation was > handled (or will be handled in this series) is intriguing. > > Happt Stitches! > Gia/Giacinta > > > > > > Apparently there's another modern-people-in-period-setting reality series > > going on right now on PBS. I've missed it so far; I may try to catch the > > end. It's set in Edwardian England; that's all I know. (Usually there's > > enough discussion on this list to clue me in to these, but I think so far > > no one's mentioned this one.) > > > > --Robin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:48:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UImqqa006722 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:48:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIltcf016921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIls2i007598; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIlq2j007564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h3UIlqhV007562 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:47:52 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Message-ID: <20030430184751.GA1135@net.indra.com> References: <7B10AD93-7B33-11D7-9596-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7B10AD93-7B33-11D7-9596-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO BTW, my local PBS stations appear to be repeating the episodes basically every-other night for the next week. ...eliz -- Please allow 8-12 weeks for delivery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 14:51:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIp8qa006726 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:51:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIoOcf017088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIoN2i009531; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (sm0101.promedia.net [207.13.104.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIoK2i009479 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gateway (ppp-207-13-109-5.01.promedia.net [207.13.109.5]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UIoGH1004319 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:50:18 -0700 Message-ID: <004501c30f49$58dca3f0$056d0dcf@gateway> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00be01c30ee4$d7ea6160$820377d8@w7m1l6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:50:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, you probably won't have to worry about that too much longer, since Mexico is slowly but surely taking it back. ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>> > unicorn@softcom.net || ///` /( //( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > > > I can see Regency and 18th century > > reenactment being a bigger priority on the East Coast, which has a > > personal history that dates back that far. Whereas most people in > > California only know that things started to get going around the > > 1850's, so the personal interest in reenacting groups is more focused > > on the last 150 years or so. > > > > That is a problem with the schools out here in California. They only teach > history of California starting with the 1850's. But we have a much longer > history than just when the US stole California from Mexico. The pre-gold > rush history is rich with intrusting people and clothing. But it is all > sweep under the rug, because a lot of people don't want to face facts. > > Stephen - On his soap box. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:02:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJ2Zqa006788 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:02:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIuqcf017880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIuoH0014497; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:56:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop016.verizon.net (pop016pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIukH0014380 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by pop016.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430185640.GQRF3199.pop016.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:56:40 -0500 Message-ID: <010f01c30f4d$94b823a0$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030429195037.00a92cd0@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030430102300.00aafd48@pop.sonic.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030430105751.00afaee0@pop.sonic.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Internships, was Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:20:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop016.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:56:40 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3UJ2Zqa006788 Status: RO >And if you're accusing me of valuing nothing but money Fran, I don't believe I made any accusation of any kind toward anyone at all! I was simply giving my opinion on what I consider in terms of value or reimbursement. As I said, I think it's all relative and depends on the circumstances. I certainly don't think that anyone wanting or expecting to be paid for their work is "mercenary". I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the reimbursement question...it depends on what works for those involved in each instance. But neither do I think that the work done by those not "paid" in the traditional sense is any less valid or valuable simply because their motives may other than for monetary advancement. I think I've now said about enough on the subject...as in anything else, everyone is entitled to their opinion....that doesn't make one more valid than another. Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:13:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJDrqa006829 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJCfcf019575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJCZH0026259; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail4.kc.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJCUH0026204 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from karen ([24.31.233.125]) by mail4.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:11:43 -0500 From: "khanson" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: How to get cigarette smell out of books? Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <8DD11DB9-7B38-11D7-ADCF-000393195F42@netdefender.com> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about fabric softener dryer sheets put between the pages? You might sandwich them between two plain pieces of paper just in case they might leave residue on the book... Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jennifer Loggans Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:21 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT: How to get cigarette smell out of books? The recent thread on finding a copy of Herald's _Renaissance Dress_ book reminded me of an issue I have with a used book I picked up some time back, which smells of cigarette smoke. Is there any way to take the smell out? I have tried leaving it out in the open to air, which seems to remove it for a time, but it always comes back. Any suggestions? Thanks! --Jen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:17:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJHIqa006836 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIxdcf018195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIxdH0016497; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:59:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UIxaH0016395 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharon ([141.151.116.122]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030430185930.IWNQ22632.out002.verizon.net@sharon> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:59:30 -0500 Message-ID: <012101c30f4d$fa247ea0$6501a8c0@sharon> From: "Sharon Saracino" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304301758.h3UHwl2i029125@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:23:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [141.151.116.122] at Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:59:30 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h3UJHIqa006836 Status: RO I'm sorry to have missed this series and hope they will rerun it...right now our PBS station is running its annual auction for station support and are showing a lot of re-runs from the past season....will have to watch for this! Sharon Granny's Closet...a Peek into the Past http://www.grannyscloset.net The Costume Gallery (on staff) http://www.costumegallery.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:18:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJIHqa006842 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:18:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJH4cf020419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJH3H0000181; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJH2H0000152 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-005-249.jps.net ([216.119.5.249] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Ax4e-0001Dt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:17:01 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:13:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <004501c30f49$58dca3f0$056d0dcf@gateway> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, you probably won't have to worry about that too much longer, > since > Mexico is slowly but surely taking it back. Er... Not so sure I understand what you're implying. Mexico and California have never had a vast division in terms of business, esp. agriculture. Many "Mexicans" here in Cali. are as Californian as I am (over eight generations were Californian born on my dad's side of the family. My fiance, whose father's side is "Mexican" have been here for just as long, although their first language is Spanish). I'm quite proud of my state's ties to Mexico, both territorially and culturally. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:26:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJQCqa006864 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:26:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJOxcf021359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJOwH0005746; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJOsH0005707 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE6008JD8LGRS@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:19:46 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: How to get cigarette smell out of books? In-reply-to: <8DD11DB9-7B38-11D7-ADCF-000393195F42@netdefender.com> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430121853.02c6f2c0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <20030430071830.25590.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:21 PM 4/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: >The recent thread on finding a copy of Herald's _Renaissance Dress_ book >reminded me of an issue I have with a used book I picked up some time >back, which smells of cigarette smoke. Is there any way to take the smell >out? I have tried leaving it out in the open to air, which seems to >remove it for a time, but it always comes back. Any suggestions? > >Thanks! > >--Jen Charcoal is a good remover of bad smells. Not sure how to work it with the book, so there aren't smudges. Maybe the small kind for use in fish tanks might work. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:37:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJbCqa006904 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:37:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJZwcf022803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJZtH0014086; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:35:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJZnH0013987 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-002-182.jps.net ([216.119.2.182] helo=w7m1l6) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AxMq-00027z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:35:48 -0700 Message-ID: <006001c30f4f$a86aa420$b60277d8@w7m1l6> From: "Stephen Bergdahl" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00be01c30ee4$d7ea6160$820377d8@w7m1l6> <004501c30f49$58dca3f0$056d0dcf@gateway> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:35:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hell as far as I am concerned they can have the southern part of the state back. It's only good for fabric, and someplace to send our waste water. Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > Well, you probably won't have to worry about that too much longer, since > Mexico is slowly but surely taking it back. > > > ,%%%, > --==% `%%%, > |' )`%%, > \_/\ @%%, > __@@" %%%--"""-.%, > /`__| \%% > \\ \ / | /'%, > \] | /----'. < `%, > Joan Broneske || `>> > > unicorn@softcom.net || ///` > /( //( > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Bergdahl" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:50 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sarah" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > > > > > > I can see Regency and 18th century > > > reenactment being a bigger priority on the East Coast, which has a > > > personal history that dates back that far. Whereas most people in > > > California only know that things started to get going around the > > > 1850's, so the personal interest in reenacting groups is more focused > > > on the last 150 years or so. > > > > > > > That is a problem with the schools out here in California. They only > teach > > history of California starting with the 1850's. But we have a much longer > > history than just when the US stole California from Mexico. The pre-gold > > rush history is rich with intrusting people and clothing. But it is all > > sweep under the rug, because a lot of people don't want to face facts. > > > > Stephen - On his soap box. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:38:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJcQqa006919 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:38:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJbFcf022978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJbFH0015091; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJbCH0015067 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ripco.com (tcr249.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.249]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h3UJdFt03324 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:39:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3EB025D6.3040206@ripco.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:36:54 -0500 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manor House References: <200304301803.h3UI3G2k003132@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did notice a lot of whining from everyone, but I agree that it seems that nearly all the younger servants seem to have gone in with no idea what they were getting into. I did notice in the intro that most of them were part-time employed before - maybe just not used to working? The scullery maid who was from a farm environment seemed to handle it better - until she fell for the hall-boy, that is. I think they would not have been able to get people who "knew what they were getting into" very easily - how many of us can just drop our jobs and paychecks for three months to do something like this? (It is stressed that they were "volunteers"). I would love to try something like this, and I think I could take it if I looked at it like an acting excercise AND I knew it was for only three months. Even as First Housemaid, however, the sheer amount of dust would probably send me into asthmatic shock in about three days. I found the end of episode 4 very interesting, where the "lady"'s sister gets sent off by a doctor on holiday because she is so stressed out from not being allowed to do anything or be anything. It really lets you in to the headspace of the era. The Lord seems to be taking to it quite easily, and getting pompous and insensitive as a result. Many of the Family said that the extreme formality, and the fact that no one ever really talks to each other is putting increasing distance on their presonal relationships, which are getting "strage" as they put it. Veyr enlightening. Wendy Z Chicago _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:41:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJf3qa006926 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:41:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJdpcf023266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJdpH0017016; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJdlH0016978 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ripco.com (tcr249.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.249]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h3UJfpt03395 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:41:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3EB02672.6010100@ripco.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:39:30 -0500 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] "Manor House" tapes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will try and tape the whole shebang when they re-broadcast it at 1 Am on Friday. If it works, I'd be willing to set up a tape tree. Wendy Z Chicago _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:55:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJtKqa006968 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UImWcf016950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UImV2i008043; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web80106.mail.yahoo.com (web80106.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UImR2i007998 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430184827.73209.qmail@web80106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:48:27 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304301803.h3UI3G2j003132@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: O/T Local regional history X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kit wrote: <> Simple: You talk to your academic advisor, present a sound defense for not following the standard course of study outlined in your catalog, and then get it in writing that the changes to your program are OK. I did that, and had US History to WWII as my major and CA history and archival studies as my minor areas of study. The sheepskin simply says "Bachelor of Arts in History." OCC: I found an old sketchbook of designs from the late '70s recently, and my designs are much stronger now than 20+ years ago. I think all that time hanging around the university (10 years) paid off. ;-) Dawn (CSUN, Class of '84) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:55:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJttqa006972 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJsccf025039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:54:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJsbH0028338; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aliceb.cds.duke.edu (IDENT:FesAuTIrpIy8wHQdsRV6LBF69G2B8eWQ@dukcds.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJsWH0028296 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:54:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cds.duke.edu (IDENT:8zmWAMxAUgYZmretXZZ149ld3LFyMgmR@aliceb.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.7]) by aliceb.cds.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3UJsVU19198 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:54:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3EB02A75.4040002@cds.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:56:37 -0400 From: Vicki Lamb User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Sleeve construction for GFD X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello--my name is Vicki and I'm a lurker. I've been lurking for almost a year now, and have decided to jump in and ask for costuming help! I'm working on a gothic fitted dress following Robin's suggestions from the list and notes on her web site. The gown is constructed of medium blue lightweight wool lined in black medium weight linen. With the help of a friend (who is subscribed to this list--Hi Nancy!) we did four fittings in muslin to get the pattern just right. When I constructed the body I first joined the front and back lining pieces at the shoulder seams, and did the same for the outer fabric. Then I sewed the lining to the wool along the neckline and down both sides of the front opening. I next hand-sewed the buttonholes (19!) and attached the corresponding metal shank buttons on the edge of the fabric as shown in the MoL book. Then I buttoned it up and Nancy pinned and marked the sides of the lining to get a snug supportive fit from the armscye to the hipline. After I stitched that up she pinned/marked the wool and I sewed those seams. This probably isn't the authentic way to construct it, but the fit is fabulous and there were no adjustments needed to the buttoned edge--which is nice and straight. I've added the gores and finished all the seams, etc. Now on to the sleeves and my question! I have done muslin mockups for the sleeves and have a workable pattern for them. I plan to have buttons from the wrist to the elbow. I am writing to ask for help regarding suggestions on how to construct each sleeve with the two pieces. Should I: -use the lining and wool as one piece and sew the sleeve seam from the shoulder to the elbow -then stitch the lining to the wool for the buttonhole and the button edges -put in the buttonholes and buttons -then stitch the lining to the wool at the wrist when I am sure about the finished sleeve length Or is there a better or more authentic way to do this? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I've been sewing and doing needlework for years, but am rather new to costuming. Thanks! Vicki _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:56:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJupqa006978 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJtYcf025146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:55:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJtX52029021; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12501.mail.yahoo.com (web12501.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UJtT52028954 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:55:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430195528.24994.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.41.38.39] by web12501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:55:28 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200304301925.h3UJPPH2006091@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] OT A robinhood Convention looking for costumers etc .. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there, just got this through one of my SCA lists and thought it may interest a few of you in the SE Michigan or midwest area ... Weekend in Sherwood, the Spirit of Sherwood RoS convention Spirit of Sherwood organises an annual three-days RoS con called 'Weekend in Sherwood' in Michigan, USA. The next one, Weekend in Sherwood VIII, will be held Fri-Sun July 4-6, 2003 at the Holiday Inn in Farmington Hills (a suburb of Detroit), Michigan, USA. We will be looking for fan panellists, filkers, "archers", costumers, artists, dealers, volunteers (gofers), and some staff positions! http://dutepp0.et.tudelft.nl/~tirza/RoS/ Have fun ;) - Lil (I love a good looking man in tights ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 15:58:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJwSqa006982 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:58:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJvJcf025353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJvI52000364; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UJvD52000279 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:57:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80]) by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12212 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:57:12 -0400 Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-33-100-243.asm.bellsouth.net [67.33.100.243]) by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA12207 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:57:12 -0400 Message-ID: <069901c30f52$56501690$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> From: "Beteena Paradise" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3EB02672.6010100@ripco.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Manor House" tapes Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:54:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also found out about this series this week. Are they going to be rebroadcasting the entire series this Friday? ----- Original Message ----- From: "zski" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] "Manor House" tapes > I will try and tape the whole shebang when they re-broadcast it at 1 Am > on Friday. If it works, I'd be willing to set up a tape tree. > > Wendy Z > Chicago > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:06:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK6Iqa007008 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:06:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK5Fcf026335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK5E52006821; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f74.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK5B52006670 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:05:06 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:05:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: How to get cigarette smell out of books? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:05:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2003 20:05:06.0536 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB614E80:01C30F53] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Charcoal is a good remover of bad smells. Not sure how to work it with the >book, so there aren't smudges. Maybe the small kind for use in fish tanks >might work. > >Kimiko > >I would think if you sealed the book, open if possible, into a plastic >container with the charcoal not touching and leave it there for a while. >Wouldn't that leach the smell like baking soda without contact? Jennifer _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:08:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK83qa007020 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:08:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK5ccf026385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:05:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK5b52007163; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK5S52007019 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-005-249.jps.net ([216.119.5.249] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19AxpW-0000N3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:05:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:01:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3EB025D6.3040206@ripco.com> Message-Id: <99C16096-7B46-11D7-9596-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I did notice a lot of whining from everyone, but I agree that it seems > that nearly all the younger servants seem to have gone in with no idea > what they were getting into. I did notice in the intro that most of > them were part-time employed before - maybe just not used to working? > The scullery maid who was from a farm environment seemed to handle it > better - until she fell for the hall-boy, that is. I think there's a lot less whining compared to "1900 House" and "Frontier House", honestly. However, I think there's definitely some discipline problems with the kids in the serving staff. That hall boy is just a git. I can't stand him, his shifty little eyes... Yech. Now, the first footman, however, is totally yummy. Strong, silent, a total knockout in that uniform... ;) > I think they would not have been able to get people who "knew what > they were getting into" very easily - how many of us can just drop our > jobs and paychecks for three months to do something like this? (It is > stressed that they were "volunteers"). I would love to try something > like this, and I think I could take it if I looked at it like an > acting excercise AND I knew it was for only three months. Even as > First Housemaid, however, the sheer amount of dust would probably send > me into asthmatic shock in about three days. I actually think the majority of the staff went in knowing they'd be up for a challenge, but had a really hard time giving up their basic human rights that they figured were 100% guaranteed. Most of them, particularly the females, really did not understand that they were not going to be allowed any of the freedoms they take for granted now, such as weekends, free speech, decent working conditions, etc. The only ones who seemed utterly clueless were the first two of the scullery maids who absolutely could not cope with *anything*. The third one seemed like a smart girl until she got all gooey over the nasty hall boy creature. > I found the end of episode 4 very interesting, where the "lady"'s > sister gets sent off by a doctor on holiday because she is so stressed > out from not being allowed to do anything or be anything. It really > lets you in to the headspace of the era. The Lord seems to be taking > to it quite easily, and getting pompous and insensitive as a result. > Many of the Family said that the extreme formality, and the fact that > no one ever really talks to each other is putting increasing distance > on their presonal relationships, which are getting "strage" as they > put it. Veyr enlightening. I think Sir John is totally clueless. This is a world that was totally set up to cater directly to him and he's absolutely oblivious to the pain that's going on with the staff and even his own family. I don't think he's a bad guy in the least... He just illustrates how blind a person can become when they are basically allowed all the freedom in the world at the expense of others. I think Milady is at least a little more concerned with the feelings of the staff and her children, but even she's a little blinded by the pampering and primping. Master Guy, the 10 year old, is absolutely adorable, and he's the one who is the most perceptive of the bunch, as he can move freely between the upstairs and the downstairs and while he's not really aware of the hardships of the staff, he at least has a better idea of both worlds. And I definitely think the butler takes everything far too personally... Looking forward to tonight's conclusion! Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:13:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKD0qa007029 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:13:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK6scf026579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK6q52008354; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UK6k52008230 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:06:45 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:50:17 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Manor House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I caught this on cable from a neighboring city since our local PBS is also in the middle of their annual auction. It is a hoot! I don't know if the casting was deliberate but some of the younger kids that were cast as the lower servants seemed to have had absolutely no idea of what they were getting into. You knew the first scullery maid wasn't going to make it when she talked about how she was used to sleeping late and having her mother fix her dinner. To give them credit, they all seem to be trying to do the absolute *load* of physical labor involved but can't seem to shake democratic ideas about time off. The gentleman given the part of the butler is a jewel and seems to be the member of the 'downstairs' cast that is really try to live the experience. I wish they would go into more detail on some of the costumes, and their care, but there have been some interesting perspectives from the personal maid for the lady of the manor. Oh yeah, and Sir Dereck Jacobi is the narrator. I would listen to him read a phone book :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:17:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKH0qa007043 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:17:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKFpcf027564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:15:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKFn52015073; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web20103.mail.yahoo.com (web20103.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UKFg52014996 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030430201542.8004.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.116.158.11] by web20103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:15:42 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:15:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Sidonia Ros Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of being unpaid... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20030430170653.56798.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred. Ghislaine --- Jacobson Dawn wrote: > OK, I'll freely admit it--the only pay you'll get > for > this hard work is lunch, my gratitude, and the > egoboo > from seeing your work help a bunch of pretty nice > kids > do a really big musical. > > I'm scheduling a "sewing hell" for "Oz" on Saturday, > May 3, from 9:00 - approximately 3:00 p.m. It will > be > at Hogan High School, 850 Rosewood St., Vallejo. You > need to bring your own portable sewing machine and a > pair of scissors; I'll supply everything else, > including fabric, thread, designs, trims, etc. I > particularly need people that know serious sewing, > as > I've got 14 gold and black Cossack-style coats to > build for the Winkies. > > If you can make it, please contact me off-list so I > can give you directions. > > Thanks a bunch in advance. > > Dawn > > > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > "Of course I recognize her. Who else would wear ruby > slippers with those socks?" > --Wicked Witch > "Wizard of Oz", Act 1, Scene 7 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:21:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKLKqa007052 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:21:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKKDcf028167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKKC52018247; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKK952018133 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:20:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DarlaKDavis@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.d.f8389a9 (3850) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:19:36 -0400 (EDT) From: DarlaKDavis@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:19:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: How to get cigarette smell out of books? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Charcoal is a good remover of bad smells. Try placing the charcoal on a baking sheet, in the oven (NOT turned on) and place the book on the upper shelf. This should work. As a caution, tape a note on the oven, reminding you and all others in the house, there is a book inside. Katrin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:24:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKOIqa007058 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKNBcf028497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKN952020495; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:23:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKMx52020342 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.133.149.150] (pm5-150.eos.net [205.133.149.150]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18524 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:22:57 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:18:18 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200304300535.h3U5ZfnD022754@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: internships X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had a paid internship as a reporter, many moons ago. In journalism, at least then, an unpaid internship was bad. You were either worked to death or learned nothing. Real newspapers had money for internships. Same went for magazine internships, when I worked for a magazine. That said, other industries are different, and times are different. An industry with a lot of money to spare, or even SOME money to spare, should pay its interns. But plenty of small companies don't have money for interns, and are willing to barter. You have to go by the standards of the industry, not by what all other industries are doing. And of course, the value of what you'll be learning. If good people are willing to work for Penny for free, or for barter, I think it's an indication that in her area and line of work (I don't mean to denegrate your work Penny, but I am guessing that The Costume Gallery doesn't roll in big bucks) the skills these interns are learning are a great return for their work. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:33:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKXsqa007075 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:33:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKWUcf029483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKWT52027214; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp02.fuse.net (mx4.fuse.net [216.68.1.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKWR52027189 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:32:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netzero.netzero.net ([66.117.222.159]) by smtp02.fuse.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030430203222.YEMF14740.smtp02.fuse.net@netzero.netzero.net> for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:32:22 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030430162828.00b66140@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: zofiahborek@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:30:27 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Lady Zofia Borek Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House In-Reply-To: <5b.3897bc6d.2be16a1c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >*&$%#@!! Dish Network/Cincinnati! I hunted and hunted for Manor House on the >gazillion PBS stations (and the Manor House PBS website) and couldn't find it >here on our local affiliates. I don't suppose anyone here is local to >Cincinnati and knows where the heck Manor House is? > >Sarra Wryght >http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ WCET (local 48) will have Manor house May 4, 11, and 18 all at 6 pm. Now if I can remember to watch it. http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/whatson/template.cgir?s=WCET&t=0&p=23542&c=d&d=2003-05-01 Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:35:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKZpqa007081 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:35:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKYecf029719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKYd52028900; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKYX52028679 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20030430203427002006kfl1e>; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:34:27 +0000 Message-ID: <03c901c30f57$e53987b0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030430201542.8004.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of being unpaid... Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:34:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep, I am an unpaid worker too. I do non-profit WebPages and programming when they need it for free. :) Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 16:39:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKdTqa007095 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKbucf000255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKbs52001521; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UKbp52001475 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:37:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE600CLWBZ0E6@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:33:01 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: internships In-reply-to: X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430132951.02c6f2c0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <200304300535.h3U5ZfnD022754@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:18 PM 4/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: >the skills these interns are >learning are a great return for their work. As one of her interns, I already had the skills she needed for the graphics work, but Penny has taught me new things. My payoff is the time in her library, and free classes that I want to take as soon as I have time to devote to them (client outfit first priority). I also enjoy cleaning up the images I have to work on. That is a thrill to see the pretty ladies looking better than their originals. I imagine that when I no longer am getting a thrill from the graphics, or no longer need to learn anything, I shall move on. But that won't be for awhile with the satisfaction level I am currently at. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 17:04:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UL4fqa007155 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:04:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UL3Hcf003323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:03:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UL3GFh020962; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3UL3CFh020919 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17047 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 21:03:12 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 21:03:12 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-213.sonic.net [209.148.112.213]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3UL3B605772 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:03:11 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430140243.00b1b2d0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:04:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: internships In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430132951.02c6f2c0@127.0.0.1> References: <200304300535.h3U5ZfnD022754@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not criticizing you, but I'd hope that if you do professional graphics work later on you will continue to enjoy it just as much even when paid. I certainly would not hire someone who didn't have genuine enthusiasm for the job, and I think most employers feel the same way. Fran >I imagine that when I no longer am getting a thrill from the graphics, or >no longer need to learn anything, I shall move on. But that won't be for >awhile with the satisfaction level I am currently at. > >Kimiko > > > >Kimiko Small >Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > >Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 17:22:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULM8qa007200 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:22:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULJYcf004867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:19:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULJXFh002328; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULJVFh002278 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ripco.com (tcr242.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.242]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h3ULLWt08317 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:21:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3EB03DD0.5050809@ripco.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:19:12 -0500 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200304302104.h3UL3qFj021422@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Manor House tapes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO grr - cannot find my VCR remote, so I can't tape tonights. I'll probably set my alarm to tape it on Friday o-dark 30 - get up, press button, go back to bed. Alas, they re-broadcast pt 1 at 2:30 THIS AM, so at the moment I won;t be able to get it all for people. Wendy Z Chicago _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 17:23:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULNWqa007212 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:23:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULMScf005251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:22:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULMRFh004513; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULMOFh004481 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE600AB9E1BC0@shadow.csufresno.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:17:34 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: internships In-reply-to: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430140243.00b1b2d0@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430141053.02c6f2c0@127.0.0.1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 4/29/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430132951.02c6f2c0@127.0.0.1> <200304300535.h3U5ZfnD022754@net.indra.com> X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:04 PM 4/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I'm not criticizing you, but I'd hope that if you do professional graphics >work later on you will continue to enjoy it just as much even when paid. I >certainly would not hire someone who didn't have genuine enthusiasm for >the job, and I think most employers feel the same way. > >Fran I only do what I have enthusiasm for. Web design, graphics work, costumes... all I have a passion for. But I know myself too well. If I do not like something I am working on, I devote less time to it than it deserves. I stopped doing ceramics because of this. Too many things of the same type even if I did get paid for it. This is why I like the challenge of costumes or graphics. Each project is different and gives me different things to do or learn from them. If it is the same thing all the time, I get bored and cannot sit still. So I better like what I work on, or I won't work on it, paid or not. That's just me. I admire those who can do "repetitive gruntwork" because I know I can't. Not even housework it seems {sigh}. :-) Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 17:35:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULZUqa007256 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:35:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULYEcf006634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3ULYCFh013959; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h3ULY7Fh013893 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20593 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 21:34:07 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 21:34:07 -0000 Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-213.sonic.net [209.148.112.213]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h3ULY6R15069 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:34:06 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430143338.00b05650@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:35:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: internships In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430141053.02c6f2c0@127.0.0.1> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430140243.00b1b2d0@pop.sonic.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030430132951.02c6f2c0@127.0.0.1> <200304300535.h3U5ZfnD022754@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm understand, since I also never doe things that bore me. I'm just saying that getting paid and enjoying one's work are by no means mutually exclusive. As for the housework--when it gets done at all, my husband does it. Fran >This is why I like the challenge of costumes or graphics. Each project is >different and gives me different things to do or learn from them. If it is >the same thing all the time, I get bored and cannot sit still. So I better >like what I work on, or I won't work on it, paid or not. That's just me. I >admire those who can do "repetitive gruntwork" because I know I can't. Not >even housework it seems {sigh}. > >Kimiko > > > >Kimiko Small >Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother >kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > >Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 18:12:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMCgqa007342 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:12:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UM0Pcf010085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UM0OIk004709; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:00:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UM0MIk004612 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:00:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (213-78-118-132.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.118.132]) 3.2.2-GA) with SMTP id ACM36351; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:00:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <014a01c30f64$52b75a40$13614ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030430174717.69353.qmail@web80108.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Raising money for Charity with costume-advice needed Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:03:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Dawn Please can you tell me more about what you do, this sounds a great way to raise the cash Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 18:32:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMWaqa007395 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:32:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMJCcf012434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMHmIk017731; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:17:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMHjIk017709 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-23.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.23])h3UMHiPj013553 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:17:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030430135051.052ba8f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:14:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows In-Reply-To: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] original question A costumer's dream career? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Here are the questions running around in my mind- > >If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic >costume, what would be your dream job/career? I'd be making costumed historic dolls. >Where would you work, what is the absolute best thing you can think of >doing? I'd probably have to work in an area with several costumed-cloth-doll collectors living within, say, 50 miles of me and my hypothetical shop/studio. The internet would help me here, but I'd have to do gallery showings (probably in my studio), and regular doll shows too. I don't know if this is even on the right track for you or your needs. I always didn't like the sewing part, that being my only means to the wearing part. But I never realized how much I hated the sewing part till I found myself using working on the dolls as a reward for doing some more work on the costumes for me. I continue to teach costume-related things, so people won't ask me to sew for them, and I still have a couple of outfits I need to finish for living history venues. But doll making lets me have all those dresses I never could fit into, store, afford, or find a place to wear. (Barbie has the un-naturally tiny waist we were discussing in the recent corset thread, but she's a doll, not a human.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 18:45:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMj6qa007433 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMR9cf013415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:27:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMPlIk023396; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMPdIl023294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:25:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 19B03Y-0006YS-00; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:28:04 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 19B01I-0002sa-00; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:25:44 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:25:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Manor House" tapes In-Reply-To: <069901c30f52$56501690$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Go to www.pbs.org and click on Manor House then check local listings for when it is playing in your area. I've caught most of the series and had meant to send a reminder to the list before it started but I had a horribly busy weekend and forgot. I hope you all get to catch it on reruns. It's fun to watch. In vintage dance I've always wanted to do an event during which we actually have the servants to help us get ready for a ball. I loved watching Gosford Park when all the servants were preparing their masters' clothing, ironing and mending. Ahh, to not have to prepare my own outfit (and those for my customers) just once. Katy On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote: >I also found out about this series this week. Are they going to be >rebroadcasting the entire series this Friday? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "zski" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:39 PM >Subject: [h-cost] "Manor House" tapes > > >> I will try and tape the whole shebang when they re-broadcast it at 1 Am >> on Friday. If it works, I'd be willing to set up a tape tree. >> >> Wendy Z >> Chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 18:56:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMuwqa007446 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:56:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMo3cf016378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMmgIk011302; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:48:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UMmdIk011249 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14b131.directcon.net [209.79.208.131]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h3UMp8T24703; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:51:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030430155102.00b42250@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:51:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] original question A costumer's dream career? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030430135051.052ba8f0@mail.frys.com> References: <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic >>costume, what would be your dream job/career? > I try to remember to be grateful every day for the fact that I'm one of the very few who are living their dream careers. If I really wanted to be piggy about it, though, I'd want more help with the less creative aspects, like processing orders, and to travel more, so that I could go to more conventions, more museums, and do more original research. The main reason I don't is time away from my family. Having started late in life, my children are young enough that more than a day or two away is tough. Margo "The Diana Gabaldon of costume patterns" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 20:05:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4105cqa007713 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:05:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UNxEcf024561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UNxAab024592; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3UNx6ab024520 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.1d1.88a4dbb (16335) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:58:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <1d1.88a4dbb.2be1bd3f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:58:55 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2003 11:20:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > This is interesting. I was taught very little about the California Indians, > and their cultures were all wrapped up into one pan-californian goulash. > We spent a lot opf time on Spanish California however, and the Spanish > explorers or other parts of what would become the United States. They way > we were taught this all ended with the Mexican revolution and then nothing > happened untill the Bear Flag revolt! > Weird. Of course, it could be the time you went through the class or the grade level you took it in. As far as that goes it could be the district you went to school in. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 20:17:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410HUqa007731 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:17:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41055cf024956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:05:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41054ab027727; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41052ab027670 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id 6.f7.2b8993d4 (16335) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:04:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:04:52 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2003 12:37:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, madlystitching@earthlink.net writes: > Hell as far as I am concerned they can have the southern part of the state > back. It's only good for fabric, and someplace to send our waste water. > > Stephen > That was rude. Some people (obviously, myself) take exception to that sort of attitude. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 20:32:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410Woqa007755 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:32:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410Sncf026719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410Skab009571; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410Sgab009552 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03169 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:48:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:48:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Lecture, 17th c. costume, Massachusetts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Forwarded with permission from another list. If you're interested, you might want to check and see if registration is required. ----- Subject: FREE Lecture/Historic Textile,Costume 9:00 am MAY 3: "The Sober People of Hadley: Clothing and Sumptuary Laws," (Laws which govern appearance and clothing according to economic and social status), 17th century by Lynne Zacek Bassett, Curator Textiles and Costume, CT Historical Society, co-author of Northern Comfort: New England's Early Quilts At the Renaissance Center, UMass-Amherst. If you want to check out the Renaissance Center's website, the URL is: http://www.umass.edu/renaissance/ Contact info for the lecture is: Arthur F. Kinney, Director afkinney@english.umass.edu Massachusetts Center for Renaissance Studies University of Massachusetts at Amherst P.O. Box 2300 Amherst, MA 01004 Email: renaissance@english.umass.edu Office: (413) 577 3600 Fax: (413) 577 3605 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 20:36:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410aUqa007761 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:36:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410Ytcf027134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410Yrab013087; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410Ynab013042 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h410jW4m027410 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:45:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3EB06B90.9050803@misc.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:34:24 -0700 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <00be01c30ee4$d7ea6160$820377d8@w7m1l6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] historical views; was: A costumer's dream job? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In referencing Stephen's comments: My husband and I visited Sacramento"s Sutter Fort Mountain Man/Pioneer Faire last weekend and, to our disappointment, found very little Mountain Man and zero Californio presence. The Californio era is quite fascinating, if not just for its brevity, but also for its non-profiteering, Iberian aura, but its existence was totally overlooked by Sutter's Fort, and, to my dismay, the docents at the bookstore, of all things. Plus, one exhibit had a man BOASTING about how clever the Americans in their pirate raids were to have ripped off California from Mexican hegemony. I was so disgusted I just had to walk away, otherwise I would have started a donneybrook. That kind of self-interested preening seems to pervade the education system, robbing our kids of a balanced and evaluative perspective. Sheesh, my turn to jump off the soap box, Theresa Eacker Stephen Bergdahl wrote: (Pruning ensues) >>Whereas most people in >>California only know that things started to get going around the >>1850's, so the personal interest in reenacting groups is more focused >>on the last 150 years or so. > That is a problem with the schools out here in California. They only teach > history of California starting with the 1850's. But we have a much longer > history than just when the US stole California from Mexico. The pre-gold > rush history is rich with intrusting people and clothing. But it is all > sweep under the rug, because a lot of people don't want to face facts. > > Stephen - On his soap box. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 20:59:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410xEqa007804 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:59:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410vPcf028789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:57:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410vNXg024221; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410vKXg024183 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:57:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03243 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:16:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:16:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sleeve construction for GFD In-Reply-To: <3EB02A75.4040002@cds.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Vicki Lamb wrote: > I'm working on a gothic fitted dress following Robin's suggestions from > the list and notes on her web site. The gown is constructed of medium > blue lightweight wool lined in black medium weight linen. Ah, good choice :-) Where did you get your wool? I've been all over creation looking for lightweight wool in a medium blue for a year now. (Saw some at Vogue last week, but much too pricey.) > With the help of a friend (who is subscribed to this list--Hi Nancy!) > we did four fittings in muslin to get the pattern just right. When I > constructed the body I first joined the front and back lining pieces > at the shoulder seams, and did the same for the outer fabric. Then I > sewed the lining to the wool along the neckline and down both sides of > the front opening. I next hand-sewed the buttonholes (19!) and > attached the corresponding metal shank buttons on the edge of the > fabric as shown in the MoL book. Then I buttoned it up and Nancy > pinned and marked the sides of the lining to get a snug supportive fit > from the armscye to the hipline. After I stitched that up she > pinned/marked the wool and I sewed those seams. This probably isn't > the authentic way to construct it, but the fit is fabulous and there > were no adjustments needed to the buttoned edge--which is nice and > straight. I've added the gores and finished all the seams, etc. Sounds workable to me. There are probably fifty different ways to assemble these things, and I've probably found about half of them by now ;-) Till we have a real one to examine, we don't have much clue about the order in which they did seams, the way they attached linings, etc. -- and I'd presume that to a large extent the methods varied from one seamster to another (as, most likely, details of cut would vary). One small point I'd note: I have yet to see any evidence for button use on the front of an underdress (that is, the standard fitted dress that's worn as the basic layer and can serve as an underdress or be worn by itself, over a chemise, for informal situations). Buttons on the sleeves, yes. But for the front, I would normally assume lacing as a default. Buttons down the front seem to be a characteristic of overdresses. I'm willing to be proved wrong, though, if anyone ever finds a good example. It can be hard to determine, in some artwork, whether a long-sleeved dress is worn as a single layer or is an overdress over a hidden underdress, which does complicate matters. That said, if the button front works for you and you're not putting a fitted dress over it, I doubt anyone will give you any hassle about it. > Now on to the sleeves and my question! I have done muslin mockups for > the sleeves and have a workable pattern for them. I plan to have buttons > from the wrist to the elbow. I am writing to ask for help regarding > suggestions on how to construct each sleeve with the two pieces. Should I: > -use the lining and wool as one piece and sew the sleeve seam from the > shoulder to the elbow > -then stitch the lining to the wool for the buttonhole and the button edges > -put in the buttonholes and buttons > -then stitch the lining to the wool at the wrist when I am sure about > the finished sleeve length > Or is there a better or more authentic way to do this? Any help or > suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I've been sewing and doing > needlework for years, but am rather new to costuming. I think I make the sleeves a little differently each time I do them. Sometimes I line them, sometimes not; if I don't line them, I reinforce the button and buttonhole areas with ribbon or a strip of sturdy fabric or a proper turned facing off the edge. Sometimes I use a two-piece pattern split at the elbow; sometimes a two-piece pattern split longitudinally; sometimes a hybrid one-piece that's split and curved from elbow down. If you have a mockup that works, you're 90 percent of the way there. If you wish to line it, then remember that your goal is to keep the raw edges turned into the inside of the lining/dress sandwich. However you get there is up to you. I might do the cuff edge last on an unlined sleeve; I'd turn and bind, most likely. On a lined sleeve, I don't usually do the cuff edge last because I like a finished edge there, which is easier to do from the inside and turn, so I do it at the same time I do the button opening edges (just as you did with the neck and the front opening in one go). Often my last seam is the attachment of the sleeve lining at the inside of the armhole seam. I might even cut the sleeve lining off at the seam line, bind the raw edge, and whip it to the armhole seam as the last thing. Or I might just turn the seam allowance under and blind-stitch or whip-stitch. Much depends on the weight and flexibility of the fabric. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 21:02:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41122qa007815 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:02:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4110ccf029081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:00:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4110bXg025879; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:00:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f104.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h410vxXg024502 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:57:53 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 May 2003 00:57:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Manor House" tapes Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:57:53 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2003 00:57:53.0843 (UTC) FILETIME=[B24FA030:01C30F7C] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know what a tape tree is, but now I'm diing to see this too!! Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >I will try and tape the whole shebang when they re-broadcast it at 1 Am on >Friday. If it works, I'd be willing to set up a tape tree. > >Wendy Z >Chicago > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 21:04:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4114oqa007820 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:04:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4113dcf029368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4113cXg027701; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f29.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4112LXg026780 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:02:16 -0700 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 May 2003 01:02:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House tapes Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:02:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2003 01:02:16.0056 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E9A2780:01C30F7D] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >grr - cannot find my VCR remote, so I can't tape tonights. > >I'll probably set my alarm to tape it on Friday o-dark 30 - get up, press >button, go back to bed. > >Alas, they re-broadcast pt 1 at 2:30 THIS AM, so at the moment I won;t be >able to get it all for people. > >Wendy Z >Chicago > > My husband has a program called Imesh that he uses to download StarTrek Enterprise episodes to our computer since we don't have TV. I'm computer illiterate, but maybe people who do have parts could upload them to Imesh and the rest of us can get it from there? It's a free program I believe. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 21:21:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411L7qa007837 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:21:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411Elcf000334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411EkXg004456; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411EhXg004432 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h411EgTV010311 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.197.160] (tnt-1-224.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.160]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411EcYs010203 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200304301758.h3UHwl2i029125@net.indra.com> References: <200304301758.h3UHwl2i029125@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:07:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 5:58 PM +0000 4/30/03, Gia_Gavino@attbi.com wrote: >Hi! Yep, another one. > >I caught about 1 1/2 hour of it last night. I did enjoy looking at the >costumes, and hear about the strict codes of conduct and about how >the societal >strata was so rigidly adhered to. > >However, the incessant complaining of the people, from the all the folks on >each of the 'stairs', about the 'rules' was off-putting. I think I would have >enjoyed it better if the participants were folks that knew a little about what >they are doing, and talk about those aspects, so the viewers could >get a deeper >appreciation for the efforts it took in those times. Doesn't this come up as a regular theme, though? It points out that what we, as people interested in history, are interested in seeing is quite different from what their target audience is expected to be interested in seeing. And the behind-the-scenes information that we've gotten on other historic-immersion "reality shows" is that they _deliberately_ play up the culture shock and historic ignorance factors as part of the intended entertainment value. Despite the historic settings, these shows are intended to be far more closely akin to "Survivor" than to "living history". Expecting anything different will only break our hearts. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 21:45:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411jlqa007888 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411iZdx002925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411iUst021201; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411iRst021137 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2003050101442205300f8eh6e>; Thu, 1 May 2003 01:44:22 +0000 Message-ID: <00ca01c30f83$2ea789d0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200304301803.h3UI3G2k003132@net.indra.com> <3EB025D6.3040206@ripco.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:44:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "zski" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manor House > I found the end of episode 4 very interesting, where the "lady"'s sister > gets sent off by a doctor on holiday because she is so stressed out from > not being allowed to do anything or be anything. It really lets you in > to the headspace of the era. The Lord seems to be taking to it quite > easily, and getting pompous and insensitive as a result. Many of the > Family said that the extreme formality, and the fact that no one ever > really talks to each other is putting increasing distance on their > presonal relationships, which are getting "strage" as they put it. Veyr > enlightening. Although what irked me about this (and always does in similar situations) is that the way this was portrayed was that it would have upset Edwardian people just as much. Obviously the people in the "Manor House" program are bringing their modern expectations and experiences with them. An Edwardian woman may have felt similarly to Miss Anson (the Lady's sister), but she may not have, or she may have felt something we can't even imagine. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 21:59:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411x1qa007912 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411vtdx003904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:57:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411vs1x028385; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (sm0101.promedia.net [207.13.104.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h411vp1x028364 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:57:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gateway (ppp-207-13-108-83.01.promedia.net [207.13.108.83]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h411vkH1030446 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:57:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c30f85$108933c0$536c0dcf@gateway> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:57:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you heard of La Raza? I'm not saying you shouldn't be proud of your culture or your "States ties to Mexico"; however, I believe the original conversation was referring to the fact that no "history of California before 1850" was being taught, i.e. leaving out the "Mexico and native connections" that existed before 1850 (nothing was mentioned about the Russian connection, incidentally) and I was responding to the fact that according to US census data, in a very short few more years, Hispanics will comprise the majority in California, both in terms of shear numbers and most likely by then, politically as well. They will then have the power, along with other cultural and ethnic groups who are tired of "white man's history", to change it in the public school system curriculum. ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>> > unicorn@softcom.net || ///` /( //( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A costumer's dream job? > > Well, you probably won't have to worry about that too much longer, > > since > > Mexico is slowly but surely taking it back. > > Er... Not so sure I understand what you're implying. Mexico and > California have never had a vast division in terms of business, esp. > agriculture. Many "Mexicans" here in Cali. are as Californian as I am > (over eight generations were Californian born on my dad's side of the > family. My fiance, whose father's side is "Mexican" have been here for > just as long, although their first language is Spanish). I'm quite > proud of my state's ties to Mexico, both territorially and culturally. > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 22:02:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4122Gqa007931 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4121Cdx004448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:01:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412191x001104; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4120X1x000570 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 216-119-29-12.o1.jps.net ([216.119.29.12] helo=elizabethanlady.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19B3NA-0000Mn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:00:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:57:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Sarah To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3456B61A-7B78-11D7-8072-0003934DD4B0@elizabethanlady.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Doesn't this come up as a regular theme, though? It points out that > what we, as people interested in history, are interested in seeing is > quite different from what their target audience is expected to be > interested in seeing. And the behind-the-scenes information that > we've gotten on other historic-immersion "reality shows" is that they > _deliberately_ play up the culture shock and historic ignorance > factors as part of the intended entertainment value. Despite the > historic settings, these shows are intended to be far more closely > akin to "Survivor" than to "living history". Expecting anything > different will only break our hearts. That's a really good point. I noticed that as the series wore on, they spent less and less time with the people who weren't freaking out over some small thing. The stable boy gets hardly *any* camera time whatsoever, because unlike practically every other person in the manor house, he actually knows how to do his job and does it quietly and without any fuss. Next up is the first footman, who after the first episode stands around in the background looking good. He had one screw up that they played up, but that's been about all. He even admitted to the camera that he wanted to make this successful because he wanted to take pride in being able to pull it off, no matter how hard it was. Same thing with the elder son. The less drama, the less camera time. Still, it's a good show. Unfortunately, I can't watch the last two episodes tonight because my mom wants to watch the basketball game. Bah. Sarah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 22:54:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412s1qa008092 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:54:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412qsdx008634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412qr1x025353; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412qo1x025330 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host-66-81-241-49.rev.o1.com ([66.81.241.49]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19B4Bk-0007Et-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:52:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3EAEE88C.1070508@ripco.com> References: <200304291938.h3TJcR2G019874@net.indra.com> <3EAEE88C.1070508@ripco.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:19:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] RE: play for pay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:03 PM -0500 4/29/03, zski wrote: > >One of the reasons I don't do wedding work anymore is that I ended >up with a lot of brides and bridesmaids who expected me to do >everything for them for free - the 6:00 AM call on a Sunday asking >me where to buy kilt hose, for example. Even my friends don't get >to call me at that hour on a Sunday unless someone is dead. Or the >ones who expected me to go to the rehearsal for free "just to make >sure everything is OK". Or who changed patterns mid-stream. I have >had several want to back out mid-project because of this, and I >usually suggest that they visit a bridal shop and ask what they >would charge for the same thing. I usually end up with rather >sheepish brides. > I had a housemate once who swore off weddings after the bride's mother spent the entire rehearsal fussing because the ribbons on the ring pillow didn't match the flower girls' dresses. Not to mention the brides who have their hearts set on a style that makes them look about twelve, or 55 (when they aren't), or fat, or washed out; who gain or lose 20 pounds at random intervals; who fight with their mothers in front of the dressmaker about how low the neckline can be; or who expect a custom-made gown to be cheaper than a store-bought one (fortunately a small number of these last). The wedding business is particularly difficult because it's a very emotional time with big changes for most people, and a lot of people get sufficiently overwhelmed by it that they begin to think that how the wedding dress goes, or how the wedding itself goes, is going to somehow determine how the marriage will go. :-/ So of course everything has to be "perfect". OTOH, I learned that brides who think they want to make their wedding and/or bridesmaids' dresses themselves are a seamstress' best friend -- when they buy $50 per yard lace and are afraid to cut into it, or their first six attempts at sewing slippery fabric are a total disaster, or they are pressured by their in-laws-to-be into having eight bridesmaids rather than two. (The problem with these jobs is that they tend to have short deadlines, since the seamstress doesn't get called until they are really running out of time.) I think the funniest one I saw was when someone came to my housemate wanting six bridesmaids' dresses in three weeks. She had actually ordered the dresses from a bridal shop weeks earlier, but had picked the color from a very small fabric sample. The color was called "aubergine," and apparently the bride had never studied French -- where that's the word for "eggplant." When the dresses came in, that's the color that they were . . . which is why my housemate got the job of making six dresses in a much nicer color. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 22:55:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412tUqa008102 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412rFdx008682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412rF1x025554; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:53:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h412qr1x025308 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comcast.net (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.54.185.111]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HE600IM2TA5EK@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:51:45 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3EB08BC1.4090504@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 References: <200304302103.h3UL3qFi021422@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: Manor House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't had the chance to watch much of it, but I've taped it to catch the rest later. I thought it was interesting that the lady's maid was a haberdasher (sp?) who loved watching historical movies for the clothing :-) I also agree that the maids (especially) hadn't the foggiest just what they were getting into... and personally, because of the amount of physical labor and the hours involved... and the fact that very few people these days do anywhere near that level of work (haven't practically grown up into it), I wish that the creators had leant towards a bigger staff than might have been "average". Looking at that place, I also have my doubts that they never had more help than that during the shooting season... not that Upstairs Downstairs is a great comparison (history research wise), but it's not bad. In Up-Down, they had a head parlormaid/upstairs maid... who usually had a maid under her, the lady's maid, butler, footman, cook, scullery maid (who doubled as a kitchen maid but also had some help in the scrubbing in some of the episodes at least). The house was half (maybe less) the size of the house they're using in Manor House. The family was also smaller, most of the time, and they had the addition of a maid to help at least half the time in the nursery when it was in use. I really like these shows for the information, and for at least *some* of the observations the participants have (not *all* the whinging though) but I swear they set them up to fail by doing some things half-way... at least this time the rules were spelled out better (which helps a bit with the "it's not fair"s). Only other thing I wish that they'd do is allow the women their modern day sanitary napkins at least... or at least after trying the old fashioned method if they wanted. The convenience of the newer ones is only part of the reason for them... the other parts have to do with cleanliness and the handling of what is now considered hazardous material/fluids. Sigh... The colony show that is being done this spring/summer/fall (can't remember when it starts/ends exactly) will be interesting for its shortcomings as well. On the bright side, they're saying they will welcome folks who do these crafts and re-enactment (that's a change right there)... on the down side, most starting up colonial towns tended to be created by people who had *something* in common in their desire to begin a whole new town, without any other real connections... they're going to be bringing in people with no connections... not even religion if what the webpage says is true (and I have a vague feeling that they're going to include a bit of the feeling about the period religious requirements vs. some non-christian if they can get them views) *g* Still enjoying the show for the view into the house... and the clothes... etc... just trying to ignore the complaining. After all, some of us are bright enough to know our limitations before jumping into something like that. (again, I seriously doubt that the maids (at least) had much warning... or spelling out of duties beforehand). -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 23:25:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413PRqa008163 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:25:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413OOdx010939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413ON38010143; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413OK38010066 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200305010324.h413OK38010066@net.indra.com> Received: from mtiwebc37 (unknown[204.127.135.76]) by mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <20030501032415112004vgdme>; Thu, 1 May 2003 03:24:15 +0000 Received: from [24.92.179.136] by mtiwebc37; Thu, 01 May 2003 03:24:15 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 03:24:15 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 27 2003) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 Subject: [h-cost] Re: wedding dressses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Non-stressed bride---- Yes they do exist, rare and very few in the world, but I did actually have the pleasure of sewing for one. We had designed a Medieval-oid gown for her with silk chiffon flowy sleeves and a small amount of embellishment around the bodice detail. The Caveat? She was four months pregnant when I measured her and would be seven months pregnant at the wedding. Mock up done at four and half months. We had another friend present at the fitting who happened to be a nurse, and between the three of us we took an educated guess at *how* pregnant she would be at the time of the wedding. Sooooo... withthe help of a stragecally placed pillow we took "final" measurements and I commenced with my guess-dress. Just in case she got *really* pregnant early, I had a two inch allowance safety margin in the side seams. She was also the most low stress bride I have ever worked with. WE went shopping for fabrics once, ordered the silk chiffon online and when the fabrics came in, I asked if she wanted to go shopping to finalize everything. Her answer.. " No that's great I trust your judgement. You know what I like and I have every confidence in you." I asked her when she'd like the dress by.. figuring on finishing it at least two weeks before the wedding, just in case I have to do any last minute altertions. She said " well.. as long as I have it by 10:30 the morning of the wedding I'm fine with that." ????? The wedding was scheduled for 11am! Let me just say in hindsight, I had the best time working on that dress. No one breathing down my back and the embellishment as I desired. She got her dress the morning of the wedding and it was jsut perfect. ( she did make her fittings--She had come over to get it hemmed two weeks prior to the wedding. Due to the fact that she and I lived two hours apart it was a bit of astretch for either of us to get to see each other. but It cam out wonderful!) Everyone needs a bride like that once in a while! Crissy > At 4:03 PM -0500 4/29/03, zski wrote: > > > >One of the reasons I don't do wedding work anymore is that I ended > >up with a lot of brides and bridesmaids who expected me to do > >everything for them for free - the 6:00 AM call on a Sunday asking > >me where to buy kilt hose, for example. Even my friends don't get > >to call me at that hour on a Sunday unless someone is dead. Or the > >ones who expected me to go to the rehearsal for free "just to make > >sure everything is OK". Or who changed patterns mid-stream. I have > >had several want to back out mid-project because of this, and I > >usually suggest that they visit a bridal shop and ask what they > >would charge for the same thing. I usually end up with rather > >sheepish brides. > > > > I had a housemate once who swore off weddings after the bride's > mother spent the entire rehearsal fussing because the ribbons on the > ring pillow didn't match the flower girls' dresses. > > Not to mention the brides who have their hearts set on a style that > makes them look about twelve, or 55 (when they aren't), or fat, or > washed out; who gain or lose 20 pounds at random intervals; who fight > with their mothers in front of the dressmaker about how low the > neckline can be; or who expect a custom-made gown to be cheaper than > a store-bought one (fortunately a small number of these last). > > The wedding business is particularly difficult because it's a very > emotional time with big changes for most people, and a lot of people > get sufficiently overwhelmed by it that they begin to think that how > the wedding dress goes, or how the wedding itself goes, is going to > somehow determine how the marriage will go. :-/ So of course > everything has to be "perfect". > > OTOH, I learned that brides who think they want to make their wedding > and/or bridesmaids' dresses themselves are a seamstress' best friend > -- when they buy $50 per yard lace and are afraid to cut into it, or > their first six attempts at sewing slippery fabric are a total > disaster, or they are pressured by their in-laws-to-be into having > eight bridesmaids rather than two. (The problem with these jobs is > that they tend to have short deadlines, since the seamstress doesn't > get called until they are really running out of time.) > > I think the funniest one I saw was when someone came to my housemate > wanting six bridesmaids' dresses in three weeks. She had actually > ordered the dresses from a bridal shop weeks earlier, but had picked > the color from a very small fabric sample. The color was called > "aubergine," and apparently the bride had never studied French -- > where that's the word for "eggplant." When the dresses came in, > that's the color that they were . . . which is why my housemate got > the job of making six dresses in a much nicer color. > -- > _________________________________________________________ > O Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 23:40:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413e1qa008179 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:40:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413cUdx011944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413cT38016400; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413cP38016373 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.171]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h413s8M16144 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:54:09 +1000 Message-ID: <06f201c30f93$7cefb800$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:40:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Manor House was shown in the UK and later Australia as the Edwardian Country House. I thought the kitchen maid Antonia was just wonderful in her attitudes towards the experiment. And the chef - marvellous! I'm glad he was horrified at the family's insistance that non-period food be eaten. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 23:59:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413x9qa008205 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:59:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413w3dx013593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413w2gB025977; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from web12005.mail.yahoo.com (web12005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h413vxgB025948 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <20030501035758.65792.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.219] by web12005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:57:58 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:57:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Costume gallery going to a pay site? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could someone please explain what it means when the costume gallery is going to a paying basis? I knew that if I wanted to download a graphic there was a fee but this sounds remarkably like a pay to look at anything? Wouldn't that keep new people from accidentally finding the site or deciding to pay the fee if they don't know if there is anything they want to look at on the site? Confused, Cassandra __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Apr 30 23:59:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413xPqa008208 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:59:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413wRdx013631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:58:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413wQgB026179; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h413w4gB025994 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp21.directcon.net [209.79.209.21] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h4140ZT17317; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:00:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030430210028.00b45030@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:00:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: play for pay In-Reply-To: References: <3EAEE88C.1070508@ripco.com> <200304291938.h3TJcR2G019874@net.indra.com> <3EAEE88C.1070508@ripco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I think the funniest one I saw was when someone came to my housemate >wanting six bridesmaids' dresses in three weeks. She had actually >ordered the dresses from a bridal shop weeks earlier, but had picked >the color from a very small fabric sample. The color was called >"aubergine," and apparently the bride had never studied French -- >where that's the word for "eggplant." When the dresses came in, >that's the color that they were . . . which is why my housemate got >the job of making six dresses in a much nicer color. I don't get it. Aubergine is a beautiful color! Margo "The Diana Gabaldon of costume patterns" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 1 00:13:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414DGqa008231 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414CEdx014560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414CDgB002590; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:12:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail7.kc.rr.com (fe7.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.162.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414C9gB002555 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail7.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:11:25 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030430231301.009f3d90@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:17:24 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wedding dressses In-Reply-To: <200305010324.h413OK38010066@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All this discussion about making wedding dresses reminds me of the ONE time that my mother agreed to sew one for a non-family member. Disaster! She swore never to deal with brides again! Of course, she had enough trouble making all three of my sisters' dresses. And their bridesmaid dresses. (The bridesmaid dresses for my oldest sister were finished up by hand as she was in the hospital for pneumonia at the time.) I was the last of my sisters to be married. I think my mother was very grateful that I sewed my own dress! ;-) Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 1 00:15:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414FIqa008234 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:15:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414EEdx014742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414EDgB003549; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:14:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414EBgB003490 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a234.in-tch.com [66.62.107.34]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h413u6v04612 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EB09F60.EFF7B285@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:15:28 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Manor House References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, *yeah*....me, too! I only got to see parts of Episodes 3 and 4, but a girlfriend's taping the whole thing, and is gonna lend it to me. The costumes look yummy (although I know diddly about Edwardian), and the manor house itself looks grand. Does anyone know where it was filmed? --sue Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > Oh yeah, and Sir Dereck Jacobi is the narrator. I would listen to him > read a phone book :). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 1 00:28:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414Sdqa008256 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:28:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414Rddx015544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414RagB009527; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414RXgB009506 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:27:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A25BC50076; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:28:11 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A235401FC; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:27:33 -0500 Message-ID: <018701c30f99$cafb8500$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030501035758.65792.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume gallery going to a pay site? Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:26:10 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cassandra, I promise I will get back to you and explain. I had an MRI on my back today and am in a good deal of pain. We also ran into a problem with the website in Netscape that we are trying to fix. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cascio Michael" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:57 PM Subject: [h-cost] Costume gallery going to a pay site? > Could someone please explain what it means when the > costume gallery is going to a paying basis? I knew > that if I wanted to download a graphic there was a fee > but this sounds remarkably like a pay to look at > anything? Wouldn't that keep new people from > accidentally finding the site or deciding to pay the > fee if they don't know if there is anything they want > to look at on the site? > Confused, > Cassandra > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 1 00:46:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414k7qa008284 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:46:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414iudx016818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414itHN018017; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414irHN017970 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a234.in-tch.com [66.62.107.34]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h414Qlv18263 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3EB0A692.B17F5C52@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:46:10 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume gallery going to a pay site? References: <20030501035758.65792.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> <018701c30f99$cafb8500$0400a8c0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh, ouch!, Penny....take care of yourself! Of course, I always thought lying still that long was more a pain in the neck, but..... --sue Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Cassandra, > > I promise I will get back to you and explain. I had an MRI on my back today > and am in a good deal of pain. We also ran into a problem with the website > in Netscape that we are trying to fix. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cascio Michael" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:57 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Costume gallery going to a pay site? > > > Could someone please explain what it means when the > > costume gallery is going to a paying basis? I knew > > that if I wanted to download a graphic there was a fee > > but this sounds remarkably like a pay to look at > > anything? Wouldn't that keep new people from > > accidentally finding the site or deciding to pay the > > fee if they don't know if there is anything they want > > to look at on the site? > > Confused, > > Cassandra > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 1 01:00:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4150Kqa008301 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 01:00:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414xLdx017865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:59:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414xJoc025028; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pop2b.ripco.com (root@pop2b.ripco.com [209.100.227.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h414xHoc024995 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ripco.com (tcr169.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.169]) by pop2b.ripco.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h4151IN11439 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:01:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3EB0A997.9030703@ripco.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:59:03 -0500 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200305010445.h414jJHP018220@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] re:crazy brides X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The wedding business is particularly difficult because it's a very > emotional time with big changes for most people, and a lot of people > get sufficiently overwhelmed by it that they begin to think that how > the wedding dress goes, or how the wedding itself goes, is going to > somehow determine how the marriage will go. :-/ So of course > everything has to be "perfect". EXACTLY! I find that these women can't deal with the fact that their entire life is about to change, so they deal with it by obsessing about what shade of emerald green their bridesmaids are wearing. Mind you, if you can put up with it, you can make a lot of money, partly because you end up as a sort of on-call therapist. I can't. BTW - second marriages are MUCH easier - everyone is much calmer and more relaxed about things. Wendy Z Chicago _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 1 01:59:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h415xZqa008349 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 01:59:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h415wYdx021120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h415wWMB018322; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h415wUMB018307 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:58:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7AD18C0076; Thu, 01 May 2003 00:59:09 -0500 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A786310200; Thu, 01 May 2003 00:58:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01ba01c30fa6$76d898c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20030501035758.65792.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com><018701c30f99$cafb8500$0400a8c0@comcast.net> <3EB0A692.B17F5C52@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume gallery going to a pay site? Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:56:52 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue, The MRI was only 20 mins but my back locked into position and made it very difficult to sit up or walk. I go to my othro doctor tomorrow to put my ax on the block. Actually comparing my MRI from 2001 to today, it doesn't look good from a layman's view. Heading back to bed. Time to take a bunch of pain meds and go to the heading pad. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 1 02:08:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h4168Vqa010688 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 02:08:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41674dx021550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 May 2003 00:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41673MB021781; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h41670MB021757 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 00:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-237-23.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.116.237.23]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4166xMc025686 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030430220910.051b2590@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:26:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] original question A costumer's dream career? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030430155102.00b42250@pop.directcon.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20030430135051.052ba8f0@mail.frys.com> <000101c30df9$d5116290$723ba7d1@Elizabeth> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >>If you could run any business or work in any capacity related to historic > >>costume, what would be your dream job/career? > > >I try to remember to be grateful every day for the fact that I'm one of the >very few who are living their dream careers. If I really wanted to be >piggy about it, though, I'd want more help with the less creative aspects, >like processing orders, and to travel more, so that I could go to more >conventions, more museums, and do more original research. The main reason >I don't is time away from my family. Having started late in life, my >children are young enough that more than a day or two away is tough. I may only get to live my dream career a few hours a week, but I'm grateful that I get to do it at all. Since I started late in life (I'll be 53 this year), and have no husband to provide me with living expenses plus studio space, it will probably always be my second job. (I'll post to this list when I get more historically-costumed dolls up on my site.) Question - is anyone on this list actually self-supporting by costuming? That is, with nobody else paying your rent and living expenses or renting you studio/shop space or paying your operating expenses, and costuming is your only job? I can think of two among the total of my acquaintances, but they're not on this list. I'd be surprised if there were as many as five here. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume