From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 01:25:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h515PkHP027430
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:25:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h515O2Uw008579
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 31 May 2003 23:24:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h515O0Gx006993;
	Sat, 31 May 2003 23:24:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41808.mail.yahoo.com (web41808.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.142])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h515NuGx006946
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 31 May 2003 23:23:57 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030601052351.13103.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [202.129.95.21] by web41808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sun, 01 Jun 2003 15:23:51 EST
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:23:51 +1000 (EST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michelle=20Munzone?= <michelledolls2000@yahoo.com.au>
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] UN SUBSCRIBE
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

PLEASE  take me OFF, your mailing list, as I'm not interested any more. My  email address is -  michelledolls2000@yahoo.com.au



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 01:35:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h515ZeHP028065
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:35:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h515ZBUw009106
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 31 May 2003 23:35:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h515ZAGx010010;
	Sat, 31 May 2003 23:35:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h515Z7Gx009992
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 31 May 2003 23:35:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A0CA4B5F0070; Sun, 01 Jun 2003 00:36:10 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A08B16250092; Sun, 01 Jun 2003 00:35:07 -0500
Message-ID: <011201c327ff$d75ac620$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030601052351.13103.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] UN SUBSCRIBE
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:37:07 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The info for un-subscribing is at the bottom of this message.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michelle Munzone" <michelledolls2000@yahoo.com.au>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 1:23 AM
Subject: [h-cost] UN SUBSCRIBE


> PLEASE  take me OFF, your mailing list, as I'm not interested any more. My
email address is -  michelledolls2000@yahoo.com.au
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mobile
> - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
>


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 11:36:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51FajHP000843
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:36:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51Fa7Uw020674
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:36:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51Fa3Ax021190;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:36:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.56])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h51Fa0Ax021162
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:36:01 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030601153555.68258.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sun, 01 Jun 2003 08:35:55 PDT
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ...and now, back to our regularly scheduled  costuming
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030529124619.02e20f68@127.0.0.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I had help that one Saturday from 2 parents and a
teacher, none with tremendous amounts of sewing
background, and none with real costuming experience. I
had them build the really simple pieces of the
Munchkin costumes.

One of our school secretaries is a former first hand,
and she helped me out by doing the handwork on the
crows (lots of "feathers: to cut).

Other than that...

I'm also serving as wardrobe mistress, so the work
hasn't finished yet. I'm out the door to get a zipper
to replace the one that broke last night in the
Cowardly Lion's costume before going to the theater
for today's matinee (rented piece--I don't use nylon
zippers 'cause they break at the worst possible time).

On the up side: I've picked up dresser who's a quick
learner, and 2 kids have approached me about becoming
costume assistants.

Dawn

--- Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com> wrote:
> At 11:54 AM 5/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >100 costumes. 5 weeks. I can't believe it's ready.
> >
> >The "Wizard of Oz" opens tonight.
> 
> Congratulations!! My goodness, that's a lot of
> costumes.
> 
> I have tried to follow your comments on it, but I
> wasn't sure if it was 
> just you working on the costumes, or if you did get
> some people to help on 
> that Super Costuming Saturday (I think you said
> Saturday, my memory gets hazy).
> 
> And get some much deserved rest. You did great!
> 
> Kimiko
> 
> 
> Kimiko Small
> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and
> Mother
> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
> 
> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 13:46:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51Hk7HP004816
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:46:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51HjZUw000443
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:45:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51HjYKl014016;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:45:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lycos.com (www3.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.160])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h51HjVKl013984
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:45:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com;
	Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:45:11 -0000
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:45:11 -0400
From: "Katie Lewis" <katie_lewis@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <BOGFPDNFJBJLGFAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sent-Mail: on
X-Expiredinmiddle: true
X-Mailer: MailCity Service
X-Priority: 3
X-Sender-Ip: 149.169.40.174
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Language: en
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Maternity clothes (wasRe: Relevance of sewing skills and economics
	ofhome-sewing
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO




--------- Original Message ---------

DATE: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:12:12
From: "Land of Oz" <landofoz@netins.net>
>I made several maternity items because I didn't like the yellow ducks and
>pink bows on everything. Earth tones anyone?  :-)

Out of curiosity, where/when were your pregnant?  I just had my baby (4 weeks ago tomorrow) and one thing that *really* surprised me was how "fashionable" maternity clothes are nowadays.  I was thrilled of course, because I was able to dress in clothes that were not substantially different than what I normally wear.

As a historic tie-in: both my mother (had kids in the late 1970's to mid-1980's) and grandmother (had kids in the late 1950's to early 1960's) were envious of the variety and stylishness of modern maternity clothes.  According to them, when they were having kids maternity clothes were really expensive and/or didn't fit past the 7th month and/or were really ugly "I-Love-Lucy" smock things.

-Katie


____________________________________________________________
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 14:34:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51IYFHP007278
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:34:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51IWSUw003907
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:32:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51IWRBK001259;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:32:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta03.fuse.net (mx3.fuse.net [216.68.1.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51IWOBK001240
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:32:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from eyrie.fuse.net ([216.196.140.182]) by mta03.fuse.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP
          id <20030601183224.QNLT17332.mta03.fuse.net@eyrie.fuse.net>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:32:24 -0400
Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030601143321.00a975e8@pop.fuse.net>
X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:36:28 -0400
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: "J.E. M-C" <jemarshall@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting smells out of wool
In-Reply-To: <5E7507E0.3CA57781.349D0FDF@cs.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Never use ammonia for urine smells.  Urine contains ammonia-like 
compounds.  While it might make the smell disappear to you, it will only 
heighten it for your cat.

Jennifer (RVT)

At 12:29 29-05-03 -0400, you wrote:
>I have had success getting icky smells out of wool by soaking them in 
>water with ammonia (see label for details, especially good for wool 
>blankets).  You may want to check the fabric first as some dyes are 
>ph-sensitive & can shift with an ammonia bath.
>
>Constance
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 17:23:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LNcHP007862
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:23:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LN2Uw015649
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:23:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LMxhD004412;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:23:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LMvhD004389
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:22:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [167.142.13.208] (HELO herselftifhj9g)
	by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9)
	with SMTP id 348184170 for h-costume@indra.com;
	Sun, 01 Jun 2003 16:22:56 -0500
Message-ID: <022d01c32883$f9ca5700$d00d8ea7@herselftifhj9g>
From: "Land of Oz" <landofoz@netins.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <BOGFPDNFJBJLGFAA@mailcity.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes 
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:22:58 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> DATE: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:12:12
> From: "Land of Oz" <landofoz@netins.net>
> >I made several maternity items because I didn't like the yellow ducks and
> >pink bows on everything. Earth tones anyone?  :-)
>

From: "Katie Lewis" <katie_lewis@lycos.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 12:45 PM
> Out of curiosity, where/when were your pregnant?  I just had my baby (4
weeks ago tomorrow) and one thing that *really* surprised me was how
"fashionable" maternity clothes are nowadays.  I was thrilled of course,
because I was able to dress in clothes that were not substantially different
than what I normally wear.
--------------
When I was pregnant in '91 and '94 (living in the Midwest) my everyday
attire was jeans and a pullover (sweater, tee-shirt, sweatshirt)  both at
work and at home. The only local maternity specialty shop had sizes to 14
(US). Several sizes too small. The maternity wear at stores like
Target/Wal-Mart/JCPenney *rarely* went past size 16 and was almost always
"cutesy" stuff.  The one specialty maternity store I visited that carried
plus sizes had two styles---business wear and "cute". Neither were anything
like my usual style. I found maternity jeans in a catalog (nothing
approaching my inseam requirements), but ended up wearing cotton knit
stretch pants and shirts that were several sizes too big. Or I made my own
stuff. I made a dress, some overall-style pants, a bathrobe and a couple of
shirts. I did buy one very nice maternity dress to wear to a class reunion.
I didn't gain very much weight with either pregnancy so just buying
different styles, like shirts designed to be worn over pants instead of
tucked in, worked out okay for me.

To bring this back on topic, maybe someone could give an overview of the
change in a style worn during pregnancy for various time periods. I would
think that in many time periods, there would not be a lot of information
available.    ?

Denise
landofoz@netins.net

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 17:49:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LnDHP008390
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:49:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LlSUw017791
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:47:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LlQhD015233;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:47:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LlOhD015208
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:47:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h51LlO4r005582
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:47:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.197.43] (tnt-1-107.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.43])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LlIuG005460
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100300baffe0608309@[136.152.196.238]>
In-Reply-To: <3ED95175.966DEF24@in-tch.com>
References: <000001c327ae$c77c49f0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
 <3ED95175.966DEF24@in-tch.com>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:03:41 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot history at your dorstep
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 7:05 PM -0600 5/31/03, Sue Clemenger wrote:
>Saragrace Knauf wrote:
>>
>>  What a cool story Bjarne.  Is it his first or last name?  I understand
>>  that Fitzroy was a common name for English kings to name their bastard
>>  sons.  (Don't remember where I heard that).  I think the word you are
>  > looking for is extinct?


>"Fitz" is Norman French? for "son" (or something like that).  It's where
>you get names like Fitzpatrick and Fitzgerald and such.  I always took
>it to refer to those bastard children that were, in some way,
>acknowledged.
>--sue
>

That's a common misunderstanding (often promulgated by "pop history" 
books that don't bother to get their facts right).  "Fitz" never had 
any sort of automatic "bastard" associations to its use  -- all the 
"Fitz-Whatever" surnames are perfectly ordinary surnames with no more 
connotation of bastardy than "Johnson".  The _specific_ case of "Fitz 
Roy" was used on a very few occasions as a surname for a royal 
bastard, but it wasn't chosen for that use because "fitz" already had 
connotations of bastardy.

An interesting sideline -- you get a big concentration of Fitz-X 
surnames associated with Anglo-Irish families, where it seems to have 
been a hybrid practice, rendering the Irish style of family surname 
of the form "Mac X" (son of X) into an Anglo-Norman format.  Powerful 
Anglo-Irish families that, back in England, would have ended up with 
a surname based on their major land holdings, instead evolved a 
surnamed referring to their earliest land-holding ancestor in Ireland.

In England, the use of "fitz" in everyday language had tended to 
disappear before the major era of fixing hereditary surnames, so it 
was much less common for families based in England to end up with 
surnames of this type.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 17:55:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LtZHP008534
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:55:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LrYUw018174
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:53:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LrXhD017354;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:53:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51LrUhD017334
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:53:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
	[67.116.236.223])h51LrRhj003901
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:53:28 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030601144404.0559f940@mail.frys.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:53:19 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes 
In-Reply-To: <022d01c32883$f9ca5700$d00d8ea7@herselftifhj9g>
References: <BOGFPDNFJBJLGFAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>To bring this back on topic, maybe someone could give an overview of the
>change in a style worn during pregnancy for various time periods. I would
>think that in many time periods, there would not be a lot of information
>available.    ?

The two times I was pregnant, I went to the maternity section of the usual 
pattern catalogs and found everything I wanted there.  I don't think I ever 
went into a maternity store, remembering the "I Love Lucy" maternity look 
only too well.  I wore bikini-style underwear before, during, and after 
pregnancy, so those stayed the same.

I recommend sarees for pregnant women, as they seem to be the only style in 
the world that makes one look elegant in that condition.  And a saree 
doesn't care what size you are today, next month, or three years from now - 
it will still fit no matter what.  Very large women look elegant in them 
too, regardless of your height, as do skinny women with no cleavage at 
all.  If there are no saree stores within a hundred miles of you, use six 
yards of any nice border print.

        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 18:21:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51MLKHP010363
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:21:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51MIrUw019759
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:18:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51MIohb026824;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:18:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta07bw.bigpond.com (mta07bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.134])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h51MIkhb026767
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:18:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.69]) by mta07bw.email.bigpond.com
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with SMTP id <0HFT00G0BPZ2K4@mta07bw.email.bigpond.com> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 08:18:40 +1000 (EST)
Received: from 144.139.221.155 ([144.139.221.155])
 by bwmam01.bigpond.com(MAM $Name: REL_3_3_2b $ 2/2725175); Mon,
 02 Jun 2003 08:18:29 +0000
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 08:18:20 +1000
From: Claire Clarke <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Possible problem
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <00bd01c3288b$bc6e8270$9bdd8b90@clarke>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
References: <00e701c32697$5a5a7260$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO



> Has anyone else had a problem with a Trojan virus since that spam went
> across the list the other night?  Susan, Sharon, and I

Aaaaargh!
I used to use Netscape (for just such reasons as have
been quoted in this thread, and the principle of course).
We just got a new computer and my husband convinced me to use OE on it.
Barely a week later and here comes
a virus. You know, I could not find a way of deleting
those spam messages without opening them in OE?
That was really annoying. Anyway, it doesn't look
like I've got it. Whew! Trojan horses are a pain in the
proverbial. We had one on the old PC attached to a
Diablo file. We didn't notice it until we'd uninstalled the
game, and then we couldn't delete the file because the
computer didn't think it was there anymore. Luckily
it didn't seem to do anything - just lurked and set off all
the virus warnings.

Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 22:04:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5224FHP030359
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:04:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52203Uw005475
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:00:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h521xxrr017461;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 19:59:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au
	[143.216.236.20])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h521xtrr017398
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 19:59:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adl0133.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	(8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h521xmNC012604
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:29:48 +0930 (CST)'
Received: from sagemsbb006.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au
	[143.216.59.14])(8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h521xlFT012574
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:29:48 +0930 (CST)'
Received: by sagemsbb006.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service
	(5.5.2654.89)	id <MB0MPXMT>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:29:47 +0930
Message-ID: <195B62C492A1D51199350002A589F66E01095A27@sagemsg0013.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au>
From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" <tonkin.rebecca@saugov.sa.gov.au>
To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +0930 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89)
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: [h-cost] 
	RE: Organizations with interest in medieval dress/textiles?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The Dolmetsch Historical Dance Society may be the type of thing you're
looking for. They also have links to similar organisations. 
http://www.dhds.org.uk
I have no idea whether there is any interest in textiles there however.
Rebecca

------------------------------
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Organizations with interest in medieval
dress/textiles?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Sorry, my original question seems to have been lost over the course of the
thread. I'm not looking for dancers, nor a dance group in any particular
area. I'm wondering if there's a professional or academic association that
links researchers and/or performance groups of historical dance. (Or
performers of early music or theater, for instance.) I've noted the
Medieval and Renaissance Drama Society, for instance (an academic society
for researchers).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 22:22:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522MFHP031821
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:22:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522LiUw006746
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:21:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522Lhrr024534;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:21:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522Lerr024463
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:21:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3F0A91776FD
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun,  1 Jun 2003 09:41:13 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <05da01c32843$7a795e00$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030531133122.14444.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com>
	<3ED97C77.5070400@grics.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] TESTING and Possible problem
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:41:14 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I see you loud and clear!

I run OE and IE, and I have not had any problems. Then again, I never open
attachments unless I have been told to expect them, and my programs are
configured to ask before opening anything. Once burned, twice shy.

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 12:09 AM
Subject: [h-cost] TESTING and Possible problem


> First...  Am I getting thru to this list at all?  (Everyone who doesn't
> receive this please raise your hand :-P
>
> Second (presuming I am getting thru at all)  How many folks who have
> gotten these "Possible Problems" are running McAfee and/or Netscape?
>
> Edwinna the Already Easily Confused
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 22:53:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522rbHP001836
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:53:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522naUw008854
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:49:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522nZrr004310;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:49:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h522nWrr004290
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:49:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-88.gti.net [208.216.115.88])
	by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 47215358C0
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun,  1 Jun 2003 22:49:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EDABB40.8C1788E7@gti.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:49:36 -0400
From: martyr@gti.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
References: <BOGFPDNFJBJLGFAA@mailcity.com>
	<4.3.1.2.20030601144404.0559f940@mail.frys.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm 5 mos pregnant right now & so far I have found a pretty good variety of
clothing & haven't had to resort to anything with bows or ditzy florals.
 I stocked up on jeans, slip on skirts & T-shirts from Gap Maternity & Old
Navy, especially from clearance, but by far the best source so far has been
eBay. There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a lot of
my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought.
Deb R.

> The two times I was pregnant, I went to the maternity section of the usual
> pattern catalogs and found everything I wanted there.  I don't think I ever
> went into a maternity store, remembering the "I Love Lucy" maternity look
> only too well.  I wore bikini-style underwear before, during, and after
> pregnancy, so those stayed the same.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  1 23:07:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5237DHP002787
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:07:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5236DUw010105
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:06:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5236CCI010058;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:06:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52368CI010029
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:06:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-236-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
	[67.116.236.223])h52364hj002740
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:06:06 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030601200438.05230750@mail.frys.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 20:05:27 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
In-Reply-To: <3EDABB40.8C1788E7@gti.net>
References: <BOGFPDNFJBJLGFAA@mailcity.com>
 <4.3.1.2.20030601144404.0559f940@mail.frys.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a lot of
>my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought.

Thrift stores and, in my experience, yard sales, are about one quarter baby 
clothes, three quarters everything else.


        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 00:33:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h524XDHP002964
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:33:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h524VSUw014928
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:31:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h524VQl6009465;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:31:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h524VNl6009423
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:31:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49])
          by attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP
          id <2003060204311805200r2jgse>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 04:31:18 +0000
Message-ID: <04cc01c328bf$d2274780$31baee0c@c59303a>
From: "chiara" <chiara@io.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306012250170.30378-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:18:36 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Unfortunately for me I actually had to go get business maternity close or
alter clothing for myself. I worked in an office that required business
attire. What saved me was a Folkware Afternoon Tea Dress. It was perfect.
With a little altering it was both elegant and very business. :)

What it is, is a pleated strap empire waist dress with a slit up the back
skirt, this is attached to the bodice. There is a Pullover tunic that is
loose with a-shaped front hemline that is deep. Over all that is a jacket
with the v-shaped hemline in the back. Over this is a belt that goes under
your breasts. Last is a drape that is attached to the dress at one side and
comes around and tucked into the belt.

It is very nice and easy to alter for what you need.

All other clothing I got from JC Penney. All the maternity specialty stores'
costs were astronomical in comparison to them and I was in no mood to sew
the entire time I was pregnant with my three. Thrift stores around here only
carried (no offense to anyone) casual maternity wear as in shorts, denim
pants, very strange patch work smocks, and dresses that were muumuu's.

I have not given away or sold my stuff, only loaned it out once. I am not
sure if anyone is even remotely interested in my stuff as it was very
expensive and do not know anyone willing to pay even 50% of what I paid for
it. The afternoon tea dresses I will not let go. I love them that much! :)
Great for summer wear just cause of the layers.

For sca, I went with Italian ren.

Sincerely,
Chiara
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robin Netherton" <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes


:
: On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
:
: > >There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a
: > >lot of my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought.
: >
: > Thrift stores and, in my experience, yard sales, are about one quarter
: > baby clothes, three quarters everything else.
:
: When I was pregnant, I found that the best place to find decent maternity
: clothes was in consignment shops -- but not the usual women's consignment
: shops. The children's consignment shops typically had maternity sections
: too, and the quality was fabulous. I lived in a city with a high
: proportion of professional women, and apparently a lot of them would buy
: office clothing, dressy dresses, and attractive casual clothing at the
: high-priced maternity boutiques, wear them only a few months (or sometimes
: only a few times!), and them dump them in a load at the consignment shops.
: I learned to make the rounds of my favorite places about once a month;
: when I found my size, I usually found a large number of items because they
: were all from the same consigner.
:
: I continue to buy children's toys, furnishings, and other stuff at the
: same shops, as well as at children's resale shops (even better than
: consignment if you're bringing in goods, because you get your cash up
: front and don't have to pick anything up later). Childrens' everyday
: clothes aren't a great bargain, as they are worn hard and washed often,
: but children's dress clothes and outerwear are frequently near-new.
:
: Today, I think eBay is now serving the purpose of a global consignment
: shop. But for things I'm going to wear, I really like the chance to touch
: them and try them on without having to commit to postage or purchase.
:
: --Robin
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: h-costume mailing list
: h-costume@mail.indra.com
: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 01:29:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h525TqHP003068
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:29:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h525TKUw018523
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:29:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h525TEVV028828;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:29:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h525TBVV028766
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:29:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m214.in-tch.com [216.166.191.214])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5259JH18572
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:09:19 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDAE094.D4CCB9C4@in-tch.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:28:52 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Giornea
References: <9453E61C-8FEC-11D7-9FBB-000393D446D6@comcast.net><00d001c323fe$1885c0b0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
	<00f901c32407$40234490$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks, I'd appreciate it.  I've got some pretty good, appropriate ideas
for outer wear with some of the other clothing/time periods I'm working
on, but ItalianRen has me stumped.
--sue

Beteena Paradise wrote:
> <snipped>

> It is interesting that you ask about the outer garments as I had already
> noticed that there doesn't seem to be any in all of the paintings I have
> seen. As I generally freeze rather than ruin my "look" it hasn't been much
> of an issue! I am looking through all of my stuff now and will let you know
> if I find anything!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 01:32:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h525WDHP003086
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:32:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h523bPUw011898
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:37:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h523bNCI020715;
	Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:37:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h523bJCI020677
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:37:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31077
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:59:10 -0500
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:59:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030601200438.05230750@mail.frys.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306012250170.30378-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

> >There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a
> >lot of my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought.
> 
> Thrift stores and, in my experience, yard sales, are about one quarter
> baby clothes, three quarters everything else.

When I was pregnant, I found that the best place to find decent maternity
clothes was in consignment shops -- but not the usual women's consignment
shops. The children's consignment shops typically had maternity sections
too, and the quality was fabulous. I lived in a city with a high
proportion of professional women, and apparently a lot of them would buy
office clothing, dressy dresses, and attractive casual clothing at the
high-priced maternity boutiques, wear them only a few months (or sometimes
only a few times!), and them dump them in a load at the consignment shops.
I learned to make the rounds of my favorite places about once a month;
when I found my size, I usually found a large number of items because they
were all from the same consigner.

I continue to buy children's toys, furnishings, and other stuff at the
same shops, as well as at children's resale shops (even better than
consignment if you're bringing in goods, because you get your cash up
front and don't have to pick anything up later). Childrens' everyday
clothes aren't a great bargain, as they are worn hard and washed often,
but children's dress clothes and outerwear are frequently near-new.

Today, I think eBay is now serving the purpose of a global consignment
shop. But for things I'm going to wear, I really like the chance to touch
them and try them on without having to commit to postage or purchase.

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 02:58:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h526wKHP023503
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:58:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h526vjUw023918
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:57:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h526viBa029428;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:57:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h526vfBa029377
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:57:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.223])
 by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18
 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HFU0038FE01WE@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:56:52 -0700
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
In-reply-to: <04cc01c328bf$d2274780$31baee0c@c59303a>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030601235553.051cc290@mail.frys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306012250170.30378-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>For sca, I went with Italian ren.

I did one from the family portrait of Thomas More's family, in which two 
women are pregnant.  I called my "Tudor station wagon".


        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 05:47:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h529ljHP011676
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:47:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h529l9Uw002094
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 03:47:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h529kxq0016664;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 03:46:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h529kuq0016639
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 03:46:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD50C52007E; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 04:48:00 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD047B01B2; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 04:46:44 -0500
Message-ID: <017601c328ec$23556de0$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306012250170.30378-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
	<4.3.1.2.20030601235553.051cc290@mail.frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:48:35 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

When I was pregnant in 1976 the smocks and high-waist were already in
fashion.  The only thing I needed to purchase were the maternity pants.

I was pregnant on and off (four times) between 1980-1987.  Needless to say
by the end of 1987 my maternity wear was worn out.  I wore a little of the
cutesy stuff, but I made the majority of my clothes.  Since two of my sons
were born this time of the year (one's birthday was yesterday) and the other
two in the autumn, I never needed winter maternity wear.  Heaven help trying
to find a maternity coat during the 1980s.

I really do not like the present day maternity wear.  I find it a little
insulting, skin tight maternity wear.  I also did not like seeing Brooke
Shields almost nude and pregnant on the recent issue of Vogue.  I didn't
like being photographed when I was pregnant.  And didn't even show up for my
10 year class re-union because I was pregnant.  I guess I am old-fashioned
in that manner.  Pregnancy is a personal time... yes, your husband may say
you look beautiful with a bowling ball under your dress.  They will say
anything to keep the peace during the raging hormones of pregnancy.  I just
don't think it is a *pretty time.*  Well, maybe the first tri-mester if you
don't have morning sickness.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 06:43:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Ah3HP015550
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:43:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52AgXUw005070
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 04:42:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52AgVO2004545;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 04:42:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.his.com (mail2.his.com [216.194.225.98])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52AgTO3004535
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 04:42:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [216.194.225.77])
	by mail2.his.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h52AgTfr027506
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:42:29 -0400 (EDT)
	(envelope-from lola@his.com)
Received: from [192.168.2.104] (pcp02591331pcs.bowie01.md.comcast.net
	[68.50.149.33])
	by mail.his.com (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id h52AgSl17164
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:42:28 -0400 (EDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: lola@mail.his.com
Message-Id: <p0600121cbb00d9c99bee@[192.168.2.104]>
In-Reply-To: <200306020947.h529ldq2016897@net.indra.com>
References: <200306020947.h529ldq2016897@net.indra.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:42:28 -0400
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Lola Lee <lola@his.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 3:47 AM -0600 6/2/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

>I recommend sarees for pregnant women, as they seem to be the only style in
>the world that makes one look elegant in that condition.  And a saree
>doesn't care what size you are today, next month, or three years from now -
>it will still fit no matter what.  Very large women look elegant in them
>too, regardless of your height, as do skinny women with no cleavage at
>all.  If there are no saree stores within a hundred miles of you, use six
>yards of any nice border print.


You can get good deals on eBay, plus there is a good site where you can "bargain" at <http://www.globalbharat.com/sariworld/hk.html>.  I would also suggest salwar kameez - the pants are cut to have a wide ease with drawstring, plus the tunics are cut to be about a size larger than your normal size - the fit is intended to be very loose.  Search for "salwar kameez" on eBay.


-- 

Lola - mailto:lola@his.com
http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/
http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html
I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 07:56:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Bu2HP020186
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:56:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52BtOUw009647
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:55:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52BtNja029284;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:55:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41009.mail.yahoo.com (web41009.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.8])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h52BtKja029253
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:55:20 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030602115515.51405.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Mon, 02 Jun 2003 04:55:15 PDT
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 04:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tania Gruning <tania_gr17@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <p0600121cbb00d9c99bee@[192.168.2.104]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Could anyone point the way for directions for putting saris on, I live in Denmark and we have a very small minority of ethnic people wearing saris.
Tania

Lola Lee <lola@his.com> wrote:
At 3:47 AM -0600 6/2/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

>I recommend sarees for pregnant women, as they seem to be the only style in
>the world that makes one look elegant in that condition. And a saree
>doesn't care what size you are today, next month, or three years from now -
>it will still fit no matter what. Very large women look elegant in them
>too, regardless of your height, as do skinny women with no cleavage at
>all. If there are no saree stores within a hundred miles of you, use six
>yards of any nice border print.


You can get good deals on eBay, plus there is a good site where you can "bargain" at . I would also suggest salwar kameez - the pants are cut to have a wide ease with drawstring, plus the tunics are cut to be about a size larger than your normal size - the fit is intended to be very loose. Search for "salwar kameez" on eBay.


-- 

Lola - mailto:lola@his.com
http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/
http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html
I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 08:48:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Cm1HP024019
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:48:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52ClWUw013758
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:47:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52ClUja018571;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:47:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52ClRja018530
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:47:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Marionetta@aol.com
	by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.e.311456c3 (1320)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:47:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marionetta@aol.com
Message-ID: <e.311456c3.2c0ca13d@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:46:53 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 25
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


I was pregnant in 2000 and am again now and it's interesting to see how much 
the styles have changed just in a few years.   I really liked the tunics and 
oxford-type blouses I got in the maternity section at target the first time 
around.   I'm glad I saved them all because the current trend seems to be towards 
brightly printed, almost clownlike very fitted clothing, not my style 
pregnant or not.

Costuming while pregnant is a bit of a challenge, depending on the era.   I 
tend to make costumes for time periods that make me look preggo anyway (Italian 
ren, regency, 1830s) and try to convince our little costume group to have 
events that include those time periods.   I've always thought certain garments 
seemed like they were probably maternity/nursing wear by their very nature - 
short gowns for instance.   But then other periods I wonder whether anyone was 
nursing their kids - how does one nurse a child in a 1880s basque with all the 
typical underpinnings?

Cheers,

Loren
Who's currently working on an italian ren to wear to Ren faire this year by 
which time I should be 8 months along...
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 11:08:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52F8mHP002432
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:08:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52F84Uw027318
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:08:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52F80N1001811;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:08:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h52F7pN1001708
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:07:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 13000 invoked by uid 1005); 2 Jun 2003 15:07:45 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.068142 secs); 02 Jun 2003 15:07:45 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.068142 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 15:07:45 -0000
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:07:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-ID: <20030602110536.W59546-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Dear List,

Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII
Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of
the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc.  I was sure
I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's
interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the
original emailer re-post that info, if they have it?

Thanks,

Drea

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 13:13:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HDSHP005837
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:13:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HCuUw015285
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:12:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HCrWO004443;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:12:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.60])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HCnWO004390
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:12:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [192.168.167.46] (helo=wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net)
	by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19MsrZ-00086K-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:12:49 -0400
Received: from [192.168.167.57] by EarthlinkWAM via HTTP;
	Mon Jun 02 13:12:48 EDT 2003
Message-ID: <5465035.1054573968937.JavaMail.nobody@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:15:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Laning <claning@igc.org>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Earthlink Web Access Mail version 3.0
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Drea, that might have been me. Last year at Kalamazoo (the International Medieval Congress) I talked to a publisher's rep from Boydell, which currently (I think) still has the option to publish that. When I asked when it was coming out, he rolled his eyes and said they would be _glad_ to publish it if the author would give them a manuscript.

I believe someone else then posted that this wasn't quite the whole story and that there were some rights or other legal issues standing in the way, but I don't remember. You might try the archives...

-------Original Message-------
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
Sent: 06/02/03 08:07 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?

> 
> 
Dear List,

Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII
Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of
the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc.  I was sure
I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's
interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the
original emailer re-post that info, if they have it?

Thanks,

Drea

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

____________________________________________________________
0  Chris Laning
|  <claning@igc.org>
+  Davis, California
____________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 13:14:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HEMHP005846
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:14:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HDrUw015400
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:13:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HDkWO005121;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:13:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.226])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52HCoWO004402
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:12:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [192.168.167.46] (helo=wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net)
	by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Msra-0007vQ-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:12:50 -0400
Received: from [192.168.167.57] by EarthlinkWAM via HTTP;
	Mon Jun 02 13:12:49 EDT 2003
Message-ID: <1739076.1054573970214.JavaMail.nobody@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:15:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Laning <claning@igc.org>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Earthlink Web Access Mail version 3.0
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Drea, that might have been me. Last year at Kalamazoo (the International Medieval Congress) I talked to a publisher's rep from Boydell, which currently (I think) still has the option to publish that. When I asked when it was coming out, he rolled his eyes and said they would be _glad_ to publish it if the author would give them a manuscript.

I believe someone else then posted that this wasn't quite the whole story and that there were some rights or other legal issues standing in the way, but I don't remember. You might try the archives...

-------Original Message-------
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
Sent: 06/02/03 08:07 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?

> 
> 
Dear List,

Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII
Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of
the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc.  I was sure
I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's
interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the
original emailer re-post that info, if they have it?

Thanks,

Drea

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

____________________________________________________________
0  Chris Laning
|  <claning@igc.org>
+  Davis, California
____________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 14:04:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52I4WHP006138
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:04:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52I2SUw021082
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:02:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52I2QSj010674;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:02:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h52I0vSj009485
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:00:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 66296 invoked by uid 1005); 2 Jun 2003 18:00:48 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.889744 secs); 02 Jun 2003 18:00:48 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.889744 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 2 Jun 2003 18:00:47 -0000
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:00:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?
In-Reply-To: <1739076.1054573970214.JavaMail.nobody@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030602140005.T59546-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hmm...maybe that's where I heard it. I did a desultory search through the
archives, but didn't find what I was looking for.

Thanks,

Drea


On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Chris Laning wrote:

> Drea, that might have been me. Last year at Kalamazoo (the
International Medieval Congress) I talked to a publisher's rep from
Boydell, which currently (I think) still has the option to publish that.
When I asked when it was coming out, he rolled his eyes and said they
would be _glad_ to publish it if the author would give them a manuscript.
>
> I believe someone else then posted that this wasn't quite the whole
story and that there were some rights or other legal issues standing in
the way, but I don't remember. You might try the archives...
>
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
> Sent: 06/02/03 08:07 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?
>
> >
> >
> Dear List,
>
> Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII
> Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of
> the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc.  I was sure
> I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's
> interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the
> original emailer re-post that info, if they have it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drea
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> 0  Chris Laning
> |  <claning@igc.org>
> +  Davis, California
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 14:44:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52IiXHP006229
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:44:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52IhqUw025488
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:43:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52IhnSj009611;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:43:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52IhkSj009565
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:43:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19MuHZ-0005NC-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 11:43:45 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: FW: Price of Henry's inventory, was: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers.
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:43:44 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c32936$e5e4dd60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Drea, I know this is not exactly what you were looking for, but wonder
if the discussion didn't take place 'round the same time...also, might
one contact the publisher of the first to get to the second??

Sg
~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
~Behalf Of ailith
~Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:01 PM
~To: h-costume@indra.com
~Subject: Price of Henry's inventory, was: [h-cost] Pinned on
stomachers.
~
~Go here for an American site that sells this lovely book...it's just
over
~$260 with shipping.
~
~http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?&ID=8788
~
~kate
~
~----- Original Message -----
~From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat@in-tch.com>
~To: <h-costume@indra.com>
~Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:22 AM
~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers.
~
~
~> *drooool!*
~> It's 232 euro, though....what's that in US dollars, these days? About
~> 300?
~> --sue
~>
~> >
~> > At 08:10 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
~> > >The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_.
It's
~> > >edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller
Publishers
~> > >for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I
hope
~> > >that helps. ;)
~> > >Kat
~> > >
~> > > > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy,
but
~I'd
~> > > > need all the normal info (including title <giggle>). Thanks,
Sue
~> > >
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 16:28:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KS8HP006670
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:28:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KRHUw008293
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:27:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KRBd4026432;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:27:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail1.mackie.com [12.144.237.151])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KR4d4026327
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:27:05 -0600 (MDT)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700
Message-ID: <A2F924FDD3D70E4A96CFD73B7196A00302C7B049@WDNE2K.mackie.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: Gold work sources
Thread-Index: AcMpQoFUeICgZG8aSL+gIdsG+ViACA==
From: "Colleen McDonald" <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h52KR4d4026327
Subject: [h-cost] Gold work sources
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hello,

I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work).  I do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_.

I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques.

Thanks in advance!

Colleen

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 16:34:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KYiHP006688
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:34:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KYFUw009088
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:34:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KYEd4001730;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:34:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bad-candy.com (dsl081-109-046.den1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[64.81.109.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KYAd4001683
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:34:10 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Mon,  2 Jun 2003 16:31:11 -0700
Message-Id: <200306021631.AA970064292@bad-candy.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
From: "Sabrina Tragus" <sabrina@bad-candy.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
X-Mailer: <IMail v7.14>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The Royal School of Needlework has an embroidery book out that has 
a large section on goldwork. It was beyond my skill when I looked 
at it, but I seem to remember them referencing older pieces and 
techniques.

Sabrina


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Colleen McDonald" <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com>
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Date:  Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700

>Hello,
>
>I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the 
embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work).  I 
do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay 
Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_.
>
>I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Colleen
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
 

________________________________________________________________
Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com


 
                   
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 16:50:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Ko2HP006759
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:50:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KnEUw010798
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:49:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52KnDd4012373;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:49:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lycos.com (www1.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h52Kn9d4012223
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:49:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com;
	Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:48:48 -0000
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:48:48 -0400
From: "Katie Lewis" <katie_lewis@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <CFHELPNHLCKHKDAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sent-Mail: on
X-Mailer: MailCity Service
X-Priority: 3
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.5.57
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Language: en
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--------- Original Message ---------

DATE: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:22:58 
From: "Land of Oz" <landofoz@netins.net>

>When I was pregnant in '91 and '94 (living in the Midwest) my everyday
>attire was jeans and a pullover (sweater, tee-shirt, sweatshirt)  both at
>work and at home. The only local maternity specialty shop had sizes to 14
>(US). 

That is icky ƒ¼  Finding plus size maternity clothes isstill difficult, the largest size that I recall seeing is a 20, which is still a bit better than it was.  
My main problem with maternity clothes was that some stuff (especially pants) that fit early on were way too small by the end.  Of course, I was carrying high and big, which made fitting a bit more challenging.  As far as finding maternity clothes went, I got really lucky.  A good friend of mine gave me all of her maternity clothes, and since she stopped having kids after her 4th pregnancy she had plenty of clothes.  I also got a lot of clothes from a consignment shop that was going out of business so I had quite a nice wardrode and didn¡¦t have to spend a ton of money.

>
>To bring this back on topic, maybe someone could give an overview of the
>change in a style worn during pregnancy for various time periods. I would
>think that in many time periods, there would not be a lot of information
>available.    ?

True.  Of course this lack of information may be because for many periods normal styles worked quite well for pregnancy.  From my own experience of wearing historic costume while pregnant I can say that most of my costumes fit until the 4th or 5th month, and a few like my caftan fit until the very end.  For my mid-19th century stuff the fitting problem was in the waist, there was just a limit to how much the waist band could expand.  For my SCA garb the only fitting problem was with garments that were fitted in the bust, since I went from a B to a C-on-the-edge-of-D cup.  When I made a petticoat bodies for maternity wear I got smart and drafted the bodice for a D cup, so it fits perfectly now that I¡¦m not pregnant.  The only change needed for my loose gown is to shorten the hem in front, since it is now a little bit too long now that I no longer have a huge stomach to hold it out.

-Katie



____________________________________________________________
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 17:14:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52LEpHP006868
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:14:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52L9KUw013542
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:09:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52L9Ij0027612;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:09:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52L9Dj0027500
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:09:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f63.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.99])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id ED0434800B3
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon,  2 Jun 2003 23:09:10 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001101c3294b$afffaa80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <200306021631.AA970064292@bad-candy.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:12:34 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
Yes i have this book from Royal School of Needlework.
It has chapters about goldwork, crewelwork, silk shading and Blackwork. It
is very detailed and it has some praktis lessons. There is a very beautifull
gold purse, in Elizabethan style you could make. It has something about the
history two.
It does not say much about middle age embroidery, but i am sure, you could
use the teckniques.

Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques
ISBN Nr. 0 7134 08401 2




Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sabrina Tragus" <sabrina@bad-candy.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 1:31 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources


> The Royal School of Needlework has an embroidery book out that has
> a large section on goldwork. It was beyond my skill when I looked
> at it, but I seem to remember them referencing older pieces and
> techniques.
>
> Sabrina
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Colleen McDonald" <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com>
> Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
> Date:  Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the
> embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work).  I
> do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay
> Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_.
> >
> >I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques.
> >
> >Thanks in advance!
> >
> >Colleen
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >h-costume mailing list
> >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 17:59:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52LxWHP009105
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:59:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52LwrUw019344
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:58:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Lwmhu003511;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:58:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta07bw.bigpond.com (mta07bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.134])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Lwihu003420
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:58:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.78]) by mta07bw.email.bigpond.com
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with SMTP id <0HFV000XVJMLBN@mta07bw.email.bigpond.com> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:56:46 +1000 (EST)
Received: from 144.139.221.237 ([144.139.221.237])
 by bwmam04.bigpond.com(MAM $Name: REL_3_3_2b $ 29/1064459); Tue,
 03 Jun 2003 07:58:34 +0000
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:56:25 +1000
From: Claire Clarke <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <003d01c32951$d64a28e0$eddd8b90@clarke>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306012250170.30378-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
 <4.3.1.2.20030601235553.051cc290@mail.frys.com>
 <017601c328ec$23556de0$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> I really do not like the present day maternity wear.  I find it a little
> insulting, skin tight maternity wear.  I also did not like seeing Brooke
> Shields almost nude and pregnant on the recent issue of Vogue.  I didn't
> like being photographed when I was pregnant.  And didn't even show up for
my
> 10 year class re-union because I was pregnant.  I guess I am old-fashioned
> in that manner.  Pregnancy is a personal time... yes, your husband may say
> you look beautiful with a bowling ball under your dress.  They will say
> anything to keep the peace during the raging hormones of pregnancy.  I
just
> don't think it is a *pretty time.*  Well, maybe the first tri-mester if
you
> don't have morning sickness.
>
I disagree with you Penny (in the best possible way of course). A little bit
before
I got pregnant there was a bit of a furore here about a game show hostess
(you
know, the kind who are basically decoration), who continued to work whilst
fairly pregnant. She still wore the lovely evening gowns and so forth, and
she looked
fabulous. It gave me a lot more confidence about being pregnant.
I think pregnancy is great (easier to say that with a 2 yr space between me
and it
*grin*), and the further we can distance ourselves from the Victorian
attitude of
being 'in an interesting condition', the better. Get out there and flaunt
those bellies
people....
On a costuming note, maybe that is why high Victorian fashion looks fairly
impossible
to be pregnant in  - if you were along enough to show much you just lurked
in the
house and pretended to be invisible. Not a solution for working class women
obviously - I wonder what they did.

Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 18:55:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52MtfHP010469
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:55:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Mt5Uw026872
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:55:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52Mt3oh012900;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:55:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h52Msvhu012774
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:54:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuZB9NbWpiqqXeRy5Iz6h8A=">; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:54:46
	PDT
Received: (from cley@juno.com) 
 by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZP2QZBW; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:54:46 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:43:05 -0700
Message-ID: <20030602.154320.224.4.Cley@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-10,12-93
X-Juno-Att: 0
X-Juno-RefParts: 0
From: Cynthia J Ley <cley@juno.com>
Subject: [h-cost] Gold work sources
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

There is also a very good book on Goldwork by Jane Lemon--it is OP, but
you might be able to find it in a library. METAL THREAD EMBROIDERY:
TOOLS, MATERIALS, AND TECHNIQUES, B.T. Batsford, Ltd, London, 1987, ISBN
0-7134-5577-2.  Not a lot of stuff on medieval but highly recommended by
some Costuming Laurel friends who are extremely knowledgable and classify
this book as a prime resource. Tons of information.

Does anyone know of any sources on Or nue work?

Arlys

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:12:34 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews"
<drewscph@post12.tele.dk> writes:
> Hi.
> Yes i have this book from Royal School of Needlework.
> It has chapters about goldwork, crewelwork, silk shading and 
> Blackwork. It
> is very detailed and it has some praktis lessons. There is a very 
> beautifull
> gold purse, in Elizabethan style you could make. It has something 
> about the
> history two.
> It does not say much about middle age embroidery, but i am sure, you 
> could
> use the teckniques.
> 
> Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques
> ISBN Nr. 0 7134 08401 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> 
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sabrina Tragus" <sabrina@bad-candy.com>
> To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 1:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
> 
> 
> > The Royal School of Needlework has an embroidery book out that has
> > a large section on goldwork. It was beyond my skill when I looked
> > at it, but I seem to remember them referencing older pieces and
> > techniques.
> >
> > Sabrina
> >
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > From: "Colleen McDonald" <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com>
> > Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
> > Date:  Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700
> >
> > >Hello,
> > >
> > >I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the
> > embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work).  I
> > do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay
> > Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_.
> > >
> > >I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques.
> > >
> > >Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > >Colleen
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >h-costume mailing list
> > >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 19:57:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52NvoHP016128
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:57:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52NvHUw008963
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:57:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52NvFuI023946;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:57:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h52NvCuI023905
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:57:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A498144D0064; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:58:16 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A45641F00F2; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:57:10 -0500
Message-ID: <00a901c32962$f7adc440$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <e.311456c3.2c0ca13d@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:59:09 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Loren,

Congratulations!  When are you due?

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 21:54:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h531sFHP024763
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:54:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h531rfUw019526
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:53:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h531rdLU017226;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:53:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h531rYLV017175
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:53:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h531rfdN027998
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:53:41 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h531rfLC027996
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:53:41 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:53:40 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <e.311456c3.2c0ca13d@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <e.311456c3.2c0ca13d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306022153.40731.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h531rYLV017175
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Monday 02 June 2003 08:46 am, Marionetta@aol.com wrote:
> I was pregnant in 2000 and am again now and it's interesting to see how
> much the styles have changed just in a few years.   I really liked the
> tunics and oxford-type blouses I got in the maternity section at target the
> first time around.   I'm glad I saved them all because the current trend
> seems to be towards brightly printed, almost clownlike very fitted
> clothing, not my style pregnant or not.
>
> Costuming while pregnant is a bit of a challenge, depending on the era.   I
> tend to make costumes for time periods that make me look preggo anyway
> (Italian ren, regency, 1830s) and try to convince our little costume group
> to have events that include those time periods.   I've always thought
> certain garments seemed like they were probably maternity/nursing wear by
> their very nature - short gowns for instance.   But then other periods I
> wonder whether anyone was nursing their kids - how does one nurse a child
> in a 1880s basque with all the typical underpinnings?


I suspect that's part of what wrappers were for.  :-)


-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  2 23:03:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5333tHP029834
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:03:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5333OUw026932
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:03:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5333Mx4019591;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:03:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5333Ex4019523
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:03:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us
 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10)
 with ESMTP id <0HFV00016XT3FX@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon,
 2 Jun 2003 17:03:03 -1000 (HST)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:03:03 -1000 (HST)
From: annora <lisleong@k12.hi.us>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
In-reply-to: <20030602.154320.224.4.Cley@juno.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0306021651170.543-100000@makani>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-X-Sender: <lisleong@makani>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> There is also a very good book on Goldwork by Jane Lemon--it is OP, but
> you might be able to find it in a library. METAL THREAD EMBROIDERY:
> TOOLS, MATERIALS, AND TECHNIQUES, B.T. Batsford, Ltd, London, 1987, ISBN
> 0-7134-5577-2.

	It's back in print and available at Amazon for $20.97.
Amazon.com.uk also has a paperback edition but the price is about the same
as the new hardcover in the US.

> Does anyone know of any sources on Or nue work?

	Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how to do
it.  Or did you want info on historical pieces?

--annora

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 00:26:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h534QuHP001940
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 00:26:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5329NUw020802
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:09:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5329LOh023776;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:09:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5329IOh023754
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:09:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.124.37.174])
 by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18
 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HFV00DFXVBHJ4@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:09:18 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:09:14 -0700
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes
In-reply-to: <200306022153.40731.cathy@thyrsus.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030602190819.00e05b80@mail.frys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
References: <e.311456c3.2c0ca13d@aol.com> <e.311456c3.2c0ca13d@aol.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>how does one nurse a child
> > in a 1880s basque with all the typical underpinnings?
>
>
>I suspect that's part of what wrappers were for.  :-)

I've seen things like that for 1880s - shapeless and relatively corset-free.


        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 01:14:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h535EuHP004617
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 01:14:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h535EQUw007634
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:14:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h535EO2u015131;
	Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:14:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h535EN2u015106
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:14:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us
 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10)
 with ESMTP id <0HFW000J53VSMQ@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon,
 2 Jun 2003 19:14:16 -1000 (HST)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:14:16 -1000 (HST)
From: annora <lisleong@k12.hi.us>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
In-reply-to: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0306021651170.543-100000@makani>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0306021912060.1419-100000@makani>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-X-Sender: <lisleong@makani>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> 	Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how to do
> it.

	Oops, no it doesn't--the book I was actually thinking of is
Ecclesiastical Embroidery by Beryl Dean.  Sorry for the bad lead.

--annora

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 06:39:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53Ad6HP008635
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:39:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53AcLUw001336
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:38:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53AcF3W019159;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:38:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53AcB3W019112
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:38:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0162.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.80.163])
	by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12D6BE7E1
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 12:38:05 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EDC7B2F.8030607@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:40:47 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

I finally started working on my partlet!
And I made some digital pictures of it.
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html

Greetings,
        Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 06:55:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53AtBHP009574
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:55:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53AsfUw002121
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:54:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53Ase3W024701;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:54:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53Asb3W024662
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:54:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4765F1106F8
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 06:54:32 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <17de01c329be$86d38500$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EDC7B2F.8030607@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:54:37 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece!

Dianne
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deredere Galbraith" <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
To: "H-Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 6:40 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet


> Hi,
> 
> I finally started working on my partlet!
> And I made some digital pictures of it.
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html
> 
> Greetings,
>         Deredere
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 08:41:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53CfAHP015233
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:41:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53CeBUw009094
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:40:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53CeAGd006313;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:40:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53Ce8Gd006296
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:40:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-014scfairp0159.dialsprint.net ([63.183.136.159]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NB5D-0003Ru-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:40:07 -0700
Message-ID: <3EDCA4DF.4050907@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:38:39 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
References: <3EDC7B2F.8030607@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere Galbraith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I finally started working on my partlet!
> And I made some digital pictures of it.
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html

That looks beautiful!  What dress will you wear it with?

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 08:52:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53CqMHP015563
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:52:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53CpnUw010175
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:51:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53CplGd011645;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:51:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53CpkGd011616
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:51:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-014scfairp0159.dialsprint.net ([63.183.136.159]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NBGT-000039-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:51:45 -0700
Message-ID: <3EDCA798.3030107@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:50:16 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book?
References: <20030602140005.T59546-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Speaking of the Henry VIII Inventory, after looking over the last 
messages about it, which point to the David Brown Book Co. website, I 
feel I should point out that it can be ordered from Oxbow Books, their 
UK affiliate, at 80 pounds.  That's roughly $130 US, as opposed to the 
list price on David Brown, which is $256.  Though it's a heavy book, 
even with shipping (especially if you choose the slow boat) that's a 
much better deal.

And while I'm on the subject of expensive but very useful books, Textile 
Conservation and Research by Mechtild Flury-Lemberg, which sometimes 
goes for over $200 used, can be had new from the Abegg-Stiftung (the 
original source) for under $100.  http://www.abegg-stiftung.ch  It's not 
listed on their website, but I've emailed them and confirmed that it is 
indeed currently available.  (Thanks to Danielle Nunn-Weinberg for that 
tip!)

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 09:06:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53D69HP016108
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:06:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53D5RUw011588
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:05:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53D5OFP019219;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:05:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53D5LFP019140
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:05:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0162.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.80.163])
	by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C990CBE83D
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 15:05:15 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EDC9DAD.8020604@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:07:57 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
References: <3EDC7B2F.8030607@kabelfoon.nl> <3EDCA4DF.4050907@faucet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
> That looks beautiful!  What dress will you wear it with? 


By the end of this month we will go to a big SCA event.
And I will probably wear this partlet with my weddingdress.
I am affraid this is not hystorical correct.

I wanted my weddingdress to be Italian but I think it turned out to be 
more spanish.

But I will make this dress
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/16thcent_dress/16thcent_dress.html
But then the partlet would be a little rich for such a plain dress :-( .

I probably wil have to make or adjust a dress to fit with the partlet ;-) .

Greetings,
        Deredere




>
>
> Melanie Schuessler
> http://www.faucet.net/costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 09:27:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53DRHHP017153
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:27:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53DP0W4012983
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:26:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53DJcFP025464;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:19:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.48])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53DJaFP025448
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:19:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-14-227.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.227] helo=pavilion)
	by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NBhP-0006hH-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 06:19:35 -0700
Message-ID: <001001c329d4$cacacdc0$e30e77d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EDC7B2F.8030607@kabelfoon.nl>
	<17de01c329be$86d38500$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:33:58 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Just what I thought.........

Lisa


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet


> Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece!
> 
> Dianne
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Deredere Galbraith" <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
> To: "H-Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 6:40 AM
> Subject: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I finally started working on my partlet!
> > And I made some digital pictures of it.
> > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html
> > 
> > Greetings,
> >         Deredere
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 10:08:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53E8UHP018885
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:08:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53E7oUw017702
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:07:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53E7jOP021078;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:07:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53E7eOP021011
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:07:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NCRw-0007hb-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:07:40 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:07:38 -0700
Message-ID: <001101c329d9$7e07ac60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <001001c329d4$cacacdc0$e30e77d8@pavilion>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Ditto!  I am so impressed!  What an inspiration to us all!

Sg

~
~> Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece!

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 10:24:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EOPHP019637
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:24:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53ENnUw019160
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:23:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53ENmOP029714;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:23:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53ENjOP029691
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:23:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-030scfairp0233.dialsprint.net ([158.254.232.233]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NChU-0002BL-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:23:44 -0700
Message-ID: <3EDCBD27.2060703@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:22:15 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
References: <3EDC7B2F.8030607@kabelfoon.nl> <3EDCA4DF.4050907@faucet.net>
	<3EDC9DAD.8020604@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> But I will make this dress
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/16thcent_dress/16thcent_dress.html
> But then the partlet would be a little rich for such a plain dress :-( .

Oh, I don't know.  The dress will be silk, after all, and the partlet 
will be a lovely accent.

> I probably wil have to make or adjust a dress to fit with the partlet ;-) .

That works, too--we're always happy to see more of your creations!

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 10:36:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EaJHP020027
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:36:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EZkUw020584
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:35:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EZjOP007072;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:35:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EZeOP006995
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:35:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.154])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AA46B4800B5
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 16:35:38 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001301c329dd$f0205d70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:39:28 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] update of my partlet.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Deredere,
What a job you are doing here. Oh it looks sooooooooooooo good.
Congratulations, you solved an impossible task.

Bjarne 





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 10:38:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EcLHP020075
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:38:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EbJUw020784
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:37:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EbJOP008126;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:37:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53EbEOP008059
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:37:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.154])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 70E554800F6
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 16:37:13 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001901c329de$297c8210$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:41:04 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] another website i lost.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
There was one lady who shared her renaissance middleclass dress with us. I
never had a look.
Would somebody please email the address again?
Thanks

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:06:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F6PHP020663
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:06:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F5kUw024053
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:05:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F5j3S026105;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:05:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F5g3S026021
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:05:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a255.in-tch.com [66.62.107.55])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h53El7H09617
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:47:07 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDCB9A0.EBDBEFFE@in-tch.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:07:12 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
References: <001101c329d9$7e07ac60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hear, hear!
--sue

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Ditto!  I am so impressed!  What an inspiration to us all!
> 
> Sg
> 
> ~
> ~> Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:09:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F9eHP020703
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:09:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F8uUw024422
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:08:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F8t3S028189;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:08:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53F8p3S028111
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:08:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.190.1b3521f6 (17079)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <190.1b3521f6.2c0e13ef@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:08:31 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] another website i lost.
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/3/2003 9:37:41 AM Central Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:

> Hi.
> There was one lady who shared her renaissance middleclass dress with us. I
> never had a look.
> Would somebody please email the address again?
> 

Was that me? I know there's a lot of middle class dress diaries out there. If 
it was me, my diary URL is in my sig line.

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:12:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FCqHP020734
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:12:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FC4Uw024747
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:12:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FC13S000874;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:12:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FA23S029148
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:10:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.48.1d9c31a9 (17079)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:09:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <48.1d9c31a9.2c0e1446@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:09:58 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oh my good golly! Zowie! That is gorgeous! NOw *I* wanna learn how to make 
those buttons/jewels.

*covet*

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:14:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FEQHP020737
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:14:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FDYUw024951
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:13:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FDX3S001925;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:13:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h53FDJ3S001723
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:13:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OsS8sTiKcrErSXZoynFvmYk=">; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:12:59
	PDT
Received: (from cley@juno.com) 
 by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZRSP63X; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:12:59 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:55:56 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
Message-ID: <20030603.081224.228.4.Cley@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-20,23-25
X-Juno-Att: 0
X-Juno-RefParts: 0
From: Cynthia J Ley <cley@juno.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:03:03 -1000 (HST) annora <lisleong@k12.hi.us>
writes:
> > There is also a very good book on Goldwork by Jane Lemon--it is OP, 
> but
> > you might be able to find it in a library. METAL THREAD 
> EMBROIDERY:
> > TOOLS, MATERIALS, AND TECHNIQUES, B.T. Batsford, Ltd, London, 
> 1987, ISBN
> > 0-7134-5577-2.
> 
> 	It's back in print and available at Amazon for $20.97.
> Amazon.com.uk also has a paperback edition but the price is about 
> the same as the new hardcover in the US.

Cool! :-)
> 
> > Does anyone know of any sources on Or nue work?
> 
> 	Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how 
> to do it.  Or did you want info on historical pieces?

Historical and how-to. One of my sources tells me that the gold used in
historic or nue pieces can't be found anymore--I am curious as to what
substitutes might. And also how to do the technique.

thanks,
Arlys

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:16:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FGPHP020741
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:16:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FFRUw025121
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:15:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FFR3S003002;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:15:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FFO3S002960
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:15:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f9a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.154])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DEC425EE1C4
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 17:15:22 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000b01c329e3$7f5137d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:19:16 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost]  =?iso-8859-1?q?update_of_toill=E9_=28robe_francaise=29?=
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
there also is update of the francaise dress. I made the toille today.
I am a little conserned about the sleaves. They sit very long way towards
the back i think. But it fits in with the corset and when it comes to it,
they had to stand straight and push their shoulders back ok?
I have also cut the overskirt and now i am going to apply the embroidered
panels to the blue silk. I am so happy, because these 3 days off my job
every week, really pushes my work with sewing..........
Anyway the update is here:
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html
Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping.
Hope you enjoy!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:24:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FO2HP020765
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:24:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FIEUw025438
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:18:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FIC3S004849;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:18:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FI53S004758
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:18:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NDY4-00000N-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:18:05 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] another website i lost.
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:18:04 -0700
Message-ID: <000101c329e3$54a636c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <190.1b3521f6.2c0e13ef@aol.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I had missed this too.  Very nice work!

Is your name really Sarra?  

Saragrace (always curious about names since mine is a little odd)

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:25:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FPQHP020772
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:25:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FOlUw026144
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:24:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FOk3S009442;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:24:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FOf3S009379
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:24:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NDeR-0002DO-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:24:40 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:24:39 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c329e4$4022a340$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Help with removing "back dye"??
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oooooooh I am sooo mad at myself.  I had just worn my new 'fighter
practice' gown and need to wash it.  I forgot and left it in the machine
overnight and now the blue/green dye on the linen has set up on the
dupioni lining and insets.  I had washed it with synathropol which would
probably have kept the dye in solution but since it lay all over
itself...
 
Should I wash it right away again?  I thought I would ask because I want
to keep it as new looking as possible, so if there is no hope for it, I
will just let it be.
 
I dyed the linen with Dharma's procion dyes. and washed it numerous
times to prevent this, but..grumble, kick, spit..
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:33:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FXnHP020825
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:33:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FS7Uw026537
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:28:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FS33S011921;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:28:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FRu3S011779
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:27:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.c6.1dc59cd1 (17079)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:27:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <c6.1dc59cd1.2c0e1874@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:27:48 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] another website i lost.
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/3/2003 10:18:53 AM Central Standard Time, 
saragrace@earthlink.net writes:

> I had missed this too.  Very nice work!
> 
> Is your name really Sarra?  
> 
> Saragrace (always curious about names since mine is a little odd)
> 

Thanks!

Nah, it's Sarah..."Sarra" is my Kewl 'Bethan Spelling.

"Saragrace" is so pretty!

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 11:35:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FZ0HP020828
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:35:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FYLUw027285
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:34:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53FYK3S016385;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:34:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h53FYF3S016279
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:34:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCrG1xc7YzC5nxcGAqbF33tcIZZQnn3YiiQ==">; Tue, 03 Jun 2003
	11:34:01 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZRTWPHX; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:34:01 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:32:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?update_of_toill=E9_=28robe_francaise=29?=
Message-ID: <20030603.103247.-83026689.2.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,6-7,20-24
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Bjarne,


The dress looks fantastic! It looks so good in the muslin, I can't wait
to see what the real fabric looks like. Of course the embroidery is
outstanding as well. I hope that someday we can all get together so that
we can see your work in person, I'm sure it's even better up close. 

You are right that the arms are set into the  shoulders in a way that
seems very far back to our modern eyes. The 18th century corsets drew the
shoulders back and down to give a broad front with sloping shoulders and
a narrow back. I made a classic mistake years ago when I was a teenager
and frist learning to do 18th century costumes- I enlarged one of Janet
Arnold's 18th century patterns from 'Patterns of Fashion' but didn't
realize the difference in silhouette until I tried to wear it and it cut
into my rather broad, square shoulders to such an extent that I couldn't
wear the riding habit comfortably. I learned THAT lesson really well! You
need to make sure that either the lady who will wear the gown is going to
keep her body held in the 18th century posture, or that you modify the
shoulder design to accomodate a more modern style. If you don't, the
dress will be agony for her to wear.

Just my tuppence worth!


Karen

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 12:37:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53GbiHP021086
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:37:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53GSEUw003324
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:28:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53GSBcM024716;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:28:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53GS7cM024678
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:28:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0062.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.62]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NEdq-0000I2-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:28:07 -0700
Message-ID: <3EDCDA4E.5010207@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:26:38 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of =?ISO-8859-1?Q?toill=E9_=28robe_franc?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?aise=29?=
References: <20030603.103247.-83026689.2.Seamstrix@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
> 
> You are right that the arms are set into the  shoulders in a way that
> seems very far back to our modern eyes. The 18th century corsets drew the
> shoulders back and down to give a broad front with sloping shoulders and
> a narrow back.

In fact, if you make a good solid corset and make sure to put in those 
diagonal bones over the shoulderblades, you can achieve something of 
this effect even with a modern body.  The diagonal bones are there to 
push the shoulderblades in and keep them there, which to some extent 
enforces the proper posture.  Of course, there are quotes in Waugh's 
Corsets and Crinolines from 18th-century letters about how the corsets 
are cut so wide at the front that they cut into their arms.  So it's not 
just us!

;)
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 12:44:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53Gi7HP021114
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:44:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53GhPUw005283
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:43:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53GhNcM006869;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:43:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53GhJcM006789
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:43:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from KatHouse (ip140.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com
	[207.173.164.140])
	by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63CBA6A6D6
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 09:22:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:43:23 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
Message-ID: <3EDC6DBB.11248.15FB9A61@localhost>
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <20030603.081224.228.4.Cley@juno.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> > 	Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how 
> > to do it.  Or did you want info on historical pieces?
> 
> Historical and how-to. One of my sources tells me that the gold used
> in historic or nue pieces can't be found anymore--I am curious as to
> what substitutes might. And also how to do the technique.

Arlys, do get the Dawson book if you can. It addresses this 
specifically. (I had out my stack of metal threads embroidery books 
this morning and was looking through them to make sure which books 
would be best to recommend to Cainder. Since what Cainder is doing is 
essentially a form of Or Nue, I wanted to make sure that she had a 
book which described the technique well enough.)

Kat
<kat@redtrollforge.com>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 15:25:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JP6HP022943
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:25:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JOYUw024102
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:24:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JOXhl005639;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:24:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JNVhn004777
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:23:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by keaton.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HFX00JB0775F6@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:05:55 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[h-cost]__update_of_toill=E9_(robe_?= francaise)
In-reply-to: <000b01c329e3$7f5137d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030603120253.02799d38@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 6/1/2003), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h53JNVhn004777
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 05:19 PM 6/3/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Anyway the update is here:
>http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html
>Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping.
>Hope you enjoy!

Wow, that is all just lovely and beautiful. And I am glad you shared the 
toille as well, as I have never really seen a full toille workup before. I 
work from patterns or a sloper, but I can see how a toille really is a 
useful skill to learn. The way it all drapes and such on the form is 
wonderful. You can really see how things are going to go, which I always 
fret over when I am making out a pattern on paper.

Thanks Bjarne!

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 15:29:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JTLHP022965
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:29:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JNfUw023980
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:23:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JNYhl004824;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:23:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JNVhl004777
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:23:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by keaton.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HFX00JB0775F6@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:23:30 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:01:31 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet
In-reply-to: <3EDC7B2F.8030607@kabelfoon.nl>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030603115924.00af9d48@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 6/1/2003), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Wow, Deredere, that is wonderful how those buttons are looking. I am glad 
to see that the polymer clay idea is working for you.

The partlet is going to be wonderful! And if you have to make a new dress 
to match the partlet, then so much the better in my mind. But then for me, 
any excuse to make a pretty new dress.

Kimiko



At 12:40 PM 6/3/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I finally started working on my partlet!
>And I made some digital pictures of it.
>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html
>
>Greetings,
>        Deredere



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 15:46:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JkrHP023094
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:46:53 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53JkBUw026440
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:46:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53Jk9hl021946;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:46:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h53Jk3hl021787
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:46:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0162.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.80.163])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DD7419FCEC
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 21:45:57 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EDCFB97.1030201@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:48:39 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  update of =?ISO-8859-1?Q?toill=E9_=28robe_fran?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?caise=29?=
References: <000b01c329e3$7f5137d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

That is looking good!

Greetings,
        Deredere

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

>Hi.
>there also is update of the francaise dress. I made the toille today.
>I am a little conserned about the sleaves. They sit very long way towards
>the back i think. But it fits in with the corset and when it comes to it,
>they had to stand straight and push their shoulders back ok?
>I have also cut the overskirt and now i am going to apply the embroidered
>panels to the blue silk. I am so happy, because these 3 days off my job
>every week, really pushes my work with sewing..........
>Anyway the update is here:
>http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html
>Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping.
>Hope you enjoy!
>
>Bjarne
>
>
>
>
>
>Leif og Bjarne Drews
>www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 22:07:12 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5427BHP027417
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:07:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5426SUw006133
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 20:06:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5426Kd5028215;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 20:06:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5426Gd5028151
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 20:06:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m210.in-tch.com [216.166.191.210])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h541lfr08320
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 19:47:41 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDD5474.765C6CEE@in-tch.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:07:48 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with removing "back dye"??
References: <000001c329e4$4022a340$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

You might try washing it again, or washing it with Biz.  Of course, I
don't know what the Biz would do to your black bits, but it worked well
for me when the red silk embroidery on a coif-to-be ran and stained the
linen varying shades of pink.
--sue

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Oooooooh I am sooo mad at myself.  I had just worn my new 'fighter
> practice' gown and need to wash it.  I forgot and left it in the machine
> overnight and now the blue/green dye on the linen has set up on the
> dupioni lining and insets.  I had washed it with synathropol which would
> probably have kept the dye in solution but since it lay all over
> itself...
> 
> Should I wash it right away again?  I thought I would ask because I want
> to keep it as new looking as possible, so if there is no hope for it, I
> will just let it be.
> 
> I dyed the linen with Dharma's procion dyes. and washed it numerous
> times to prevent this, but..grumble, kick, spit..
> 
> Sg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun  3 23:57:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h543veHP027656
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:57:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h543v3Uw017617
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:57:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h543uvHT026084;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:56:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h543umHT025915
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:56:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us
 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10)
 with ESMTP id <0HFX00MICUYBJS@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue,
 3 Jun 2003 17:56:36 -1000 (HST)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:56:34 -1000 (HST)
From: annora <lisleong@k12.hi.us>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources
In-reply-to: <20030603.081224.228.4.Cley@juno.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0306031730210.8056-100000@makani>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-X-Sender: <lisleong@makani>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Historical and how-to. One of my sources tells me that the gold used in
> historic or nue pieces can't be found anymore--I am curious as to what
> substitutes might. And also how to do the technique.

	The Jane Lemon book does say that Japanese gold "became impossible
to buy from the 1970s onwards" but it has the following about Jap gold and
silver substitutes.

	"A thread made in a similar manner to the original jap gold,
	but using a plated alloy instead of the gold leaf.  It is
	handled in exactly the same manner, but it is easier to use
	because it does not come unwound so easily."

	For historical pieces, one of my favorite sources is The
Conservation of Tapestries and Embroideries - Proceedings of Meetings at
the Institut Royal du Patrimoine Artistique, Brussels, Belgium,
September 21-24, 1987.  There are three papers on the conservation
attempts on pieces from the 13th, 15th, and early 16th centuries.  One of
them is the set of Burgundian vestments that are shown in figures 254-268
of Schuette (which IIRC you said you have).  The pictures aren't as large
or as clear as the ones in Schuette but there's a short discussion of
technique.

	Because the book deals with conservation, there are some nice
closeups of the work, although they're of small areas.

--annora

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 01:51:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h545pgHP028452
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:51:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h545p3Uw027715
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:51:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h545p0Ve020773;
	Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:51:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h545ouVe020731
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:50:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13416
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:12:56 -0500
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:12:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historic Costume List <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306040111310.13366-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: [h-cost] Need Norris quote
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Believe it or not, I need a quote out of Norris (the volume that covers
14th c.), and I don't have it on my own shelf. Can someone who has a copy
and a few minutes to look something up for me, please email me privately?
Thanks.

--Robin, slapping together a lecture for this weekend


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 08:08:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54C82HP031941
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:08:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54C7UUw025805
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:07:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54C7R2c028278;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:07:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54C7O2c028244
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:07:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A13E154A0072; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 07:08:30 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0FA8A0140; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 07:07:22 -0500
Message-ID: <004601c32a92$25054500$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "h-costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:09:25 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
Subject: [h-cost] June Online Classes
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The following is a list of June online classes at the Costume Classroom,
www.costumeclassroom.com :

Starts June 2: (can enter this class as late as Saturday)
***Propriety, Plain and Fancy: Victorian and Edwardian Fashions from Bustle
to Gibson Girl (enrollment is open until June 7)

Starts June 23:
***No Lady of Leisure- Dress for the Working Class Victorian/Edwardian Woman
(1850-1910)
***Elizabethan Glove Making: Make your own pair of gloves
***Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in Elizabethan England

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 08:13:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54CDnHP031947
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:13:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54CCkUw026093
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:12:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54CCj2c000441;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:12:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54CCh2c000408
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:12:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-003-105.jps.net ([216.119.3.105] helo=pavilion)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NX8E-0007Zc-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 05:12:42 -0700
Message-ID: <001c01c32a94$9f30ae80$690377d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306040111310.13366-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Norris quote
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 05:27:09 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

you probably have 500 responses already, but I own up to possessing a copy!
What would you like?

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: "Historic Costume List" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 11:12 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Need Norris quote


>
> Believe it or not, I need a quote out of Norris (the volume that covers
> 14th c.), and I don't have it on my own shelf. Can someone who has a copy
> and a few minutes to look something up for me, please email me privately?
> Thanks.
>
> --Robin, slapping together a lecture for this weekend
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 08:43:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54ChHHP032028
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:43:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54CgeUw027925
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:42:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54Cgc2c012666;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:42:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54CgX2c012619
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:42:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15119
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:04:34 -0500
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:04:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Norris quote
In-Reply-To: <001c01c32a94$9f30ae80$690377d8@pavilion>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306040804200.15113-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


I'm covered now! Thank you!

--Robin

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 09:09:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54D9JHP032105
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:09:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54D8gUw029453
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:08:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54D8eSl023252;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:08:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54D8cSl023232
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:08:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-003-105.jps.net ([216.119.3.105] helo=pavilion)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NY0G-0000du-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 06:08:35 -0700
Message-ID: <003e01c32a9c$6db132a0$690377d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:22:45 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] need help with a colour scheme?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h54D9JHP032105
Status: RO

Just found this free download program.

SLUGS: http://www.opensourcepan.co.uk/programs/slugs/ (free) ColorImpact

Will help you select a colour scheme which can be used for anything including ...... historic garments!

Lisa 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 10:17:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EHwHP032318
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:17:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EHFUw006716
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:17:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EHDFH029991;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:17:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EH9FH029945
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:17:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NZ4f-00018O-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 07:17:09 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:17:05 -0700
Message-ID: <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his britches
(breeches)"?.  I learned it from my mother who was from the southern US.
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 10:23:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54ENRHP032327
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:23:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EMnUw007425
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:22:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EMmFH003691;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:22:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h54EMkFH003608
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:22:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCokQC1rWqhNtptT02/1gx8CLrI3j9eJJpg==">; Wed, 04 Jun 2003
	10:22:39 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZT98QD8; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:22:39 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:12:44 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from?
Message-ID: <20030604.091244.-83117381.1.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-10,12-21
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I haven't heard of 'too good for his britches' but I have heard 'he's
getting too big for his britches' meaning someone who has a great deal of
attitude/arrogance.

Karen from Chicago



On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:17:05 -0700 "Saragrace Knauf"
<saragrace@earthlink.net> writes:
> Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his 
> britches (breeches)"?.  I learned it from my mother who was from the
southern 
> US.
>  
> Sg
>  
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 10:32:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EWiHP032362
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:32:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EWCUw008611
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:32:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EWAFH009846;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:32:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from providenceday.org (cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.6])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EW6FH009787
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:32:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [192.154.67.195] (HELO providenceday.org)
	by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5)
	with ESMTP id 284073 for h-costume@indra.com;
	Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:32:06 -0400
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:32:05 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Grace Morris <grace.morris@providenceday.org>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Message-Id: <50B75C23-9699-11D7-AB7B-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In North Carolina it's "too big for his britches",  i.e. he's got a lot 
of growing up to do/behavior above his station, etc..
Grace /Jessamyn

On Wednesday, June 4, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his britches
> (breeches)"?.  I learned it from my mother who was from the southern 
> US.
>
> Sg
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 10:50:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54EooHP032410
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:50:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54Eo9Uw010645
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:50:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54Eo5FH020924;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:50:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41009.mail.yahoo.com (web41009.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.8])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h54Eo2FH020820
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:50:02 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030604144957.16108.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 04 Jun 2003 07:49:57 PDT
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:49:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tania Gruning <tania_gr17@yahoo.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <50B75C23-9699-11D7-AB7B-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Christian IV
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Hi all

Here is a link to a picture I mentioned a month or so ago.

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/taniagruning/index.html

Sorry about the banners and stuff, but that is the way it is.

The picture is painted by Hans Kniebel in 1582-84 and is the only known picture of Christian IV as a child.

I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet.

Tania


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 11:07:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54F7LHP032451
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:07:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54F6bUw012161
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:06:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54F6Zml000773;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:06:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54F6Vml000719
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:06:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by
	mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h54F6Up11030.; Wed, 4 Jun
	2003 16:06:30 +0100 (BST)
Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk
	with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:06:28 +0100
Message-Id: <sede1904.069@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:06:17 +0100
From: "Kate M Bunting" <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come
	from?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h54F6Vml000719
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The version I know (in the UK) is "too big for his boots", with similar meaning.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> grace.morris@providenceday.org 06/04/03 03:32pm >>>
In North Carolina it's "too big for his britches",  i.e. he's got a lot 
of growing up to do/behavior above his station, etc..
Grace /Jessamyn




_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 11:10:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54FAoHP032460
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:10:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54FA5Uw012522
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:10:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54FA1ml002784;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:10:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41807.mail.yahoo.com (web41807.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.141])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h54F9nml002579
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:09:56 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030604150943.71526.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [132.185.240.14] by web41807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 04 Jun 2003 08:09:43 PDT
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:09:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: elizabeth hervey <emhervey@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To: <200306031643.h53GhdcO007039@net.indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Hi

The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over £39, so this is a good time to buy!

Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've already seen them.

Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion

www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/

1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim to make those men's drawers for!

Tudor Links Costume page

www.tudorlinks.com/textiles

Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites with some I'd never seen before.

Bess


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 11:19:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54FJmHP032477
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:19:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54FJAUw013510
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:19:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54FJ8ml008919;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:19:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54FJ5ml008889
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:19:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-025scfairp0220.dialsprint.net ([63.183.120.220]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Na2a-0005ki-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 08:19:05 -0700
Message-ID: <3EDE1B9C.2000409@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:17:32 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
References: <20030604150943.71526.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

elizabeth hervey wrote:

> Tudor Links Costume page
> 
> www.tudorlinks.com/textiles

This is a great site, and I'd never seen it before, but to get to it I 
had to add .html to the end:

http://www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html

Happy Surfing!
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 12:31:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54GVMHP000304
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:31:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54GUnUw021475
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:30:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54GUdG4001519;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:30:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h54GUWG4001406
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:30:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 4540 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2003 16:30:30 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50)
  by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 16:30:30 -0000
Received: from 162.119.64.111
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com)
        by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP;
        Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:30:30 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <25705.162.119.64.111.1054744230.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:30:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
From: <dch@inreach.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EDE1B9C.2000409@faucet.net>
References: <20030604150943.71526.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com>
        <3EDE1B9C.2000409@faucet.net>
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> elizabeth hervey wrote:
>
>> Tudor Links Costume page
>>
>> www.tudorlinks.com/textiles
>
> This is a great site, and I'd never seen it before, but to get to it I
> had to add .html to the end:
>
> http://www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html
>

What a great collection of 16th C. info!!  I am bookmarking this one!

Diana


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 13:14:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HEgHP000415
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:14:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HE5Uw026409
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:14:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HE2AC006069;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:14:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h54HDrAC005949
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:13:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 41152 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jun 2003 17:13:49 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.297164 secs); 04 Jun 2003 17:13:49 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.297164 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 17:13:49 -0000
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:13:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
In-Reply-To: <20030604150943.71526.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030604130911.P1118-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h54HDrAC005949
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was
nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations
and all.

:}

Drea

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, elizabeth hervey wrote:

>
> Hi
>
> The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over £39, so this is a good time to buy!
>
> Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've already seen them.
>
> Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion
>
> www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/
>
> 1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim to make those men's drawers for!
>
> Tudor Links Costume page
>
> www.tudorlinks.com/textiles
>
> Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites with some I'd never seen before.
>
> Bess
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 13:24:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HOtHP000433
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:24:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HOIUw027742
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:24:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HOGAC015102;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:24:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HOBAC014966
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:24:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.12e.2b821e60 (4116)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:24:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <12e.2b821e60.2c0f8532@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:24:02 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Do these match enough?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight 
difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool.  Poop.

Opinions?
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/uk5.html">http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/uk5.html</A>

btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the right 
is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two different 
dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona.

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 13:38:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HceHP000545
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:38:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HbIUw029348
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:37:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HbGAC026281;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:37:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54Hb7AC026172
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:37:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16928
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:59:09 -0500
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:59:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
In-Reply-To: <20030604130911.P1118-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306041257540.16773-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Drea Leed wrote:

> Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was
> nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations
> and all.

So ... you're going to require them to remove it, I hope? And post a link
to you? And the same for anything else they may have "borrowed"?

(In my business we also ask for money and/or apologies, depending on how
we feel.)

--Robin

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 13:47:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HlYHP000595
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:47:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HkiUw000512
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:46:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54HkeAC004206;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:46:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h54HkbAC004142
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:46:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 40067 invoked by uid 1005); 4 Jun 2003 17:46:30 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.09292 secs); 04 Jun 2003 17:46:30 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.09292 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 17:46:30 -0000
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:46:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306041257540.16773-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Message-ID: <20030604134235.A1118-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Well, the links aren't really my property. I myself cruise other
sites looking for links to interesting new elizabethan costume sites, so
I can add the sites to my page.  I consider it a bit rude to do wholesale
cut-and-paste like this person did without telling me...but as it is,
I've added a lot to my site since these links were nabbed, and have kept
my links updated while some of these have fallen victim to link rot.

Besides which, the more places that links to Elizabethan costume can be
found on the web, the better.

Drea


On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Robin Netherton wrote:

>
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Drea Leed wrote:
>
> > Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was
> > nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations
> > and all.
>
> So ... you're going to require them to remove it, I hope? And post a link
> to you? And the same for anything else they may have "borrowed"?
>
> (In my business we also ask for money and/or apologies, depending on how
> we feel.)
>
> --Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 14:05:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54I5UHP000679
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:05:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54I4XUw002395
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:04:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54I4Ve4017878;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:04:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54I1de4015773
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:01:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17075
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:23:41 -0500
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:23:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
In-Reply-To: <20030604134235.A1118-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306041322150.16773-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Drea Leed wrote:

> Well, the links aren't really my property. I myself cruise other sites
> looking for links to interesting new elizabethan costume sites, so I
> can add the sites to my page.  I consider it a bit rude to do
> wholesale cut-and-paste like this person did without telling me...but
> as it is, I've added a lot to my site since these links were nabbed,
> and have kept my links updated while some of these have fallen victim
> to link rot.

Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about an *article* that had been
lifted, not a links list. I hadn't looked at the page. (And I thought you
seemed awfully calm about it...)

As Emily Litella says, "Never mind..."

--Robin

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 15:11:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JBmHP000921
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:11:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JArUw009988
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:10:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JAoPl005986;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:10:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JAhPl005911
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:10:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HFZ007MD19RFI@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:24:32 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV
In-reply-to: <20030604144957.16108.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030604111943.00afa040@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <50B75C23-9699-11D7-AB7B-000393D30BFA@providenceday.org>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Tania,

Thanks for the link to the image. I have a baby boy, and while it will be a 
few years before he gets such garb, I am trying to collect as much 
children's images from the time period as I can to get ideas from. With 
your info, I have started my google search on this person.

Thanks again!

Kimiko


At 07:49 AM 6/4/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Here is a link to a picture I mentioned a month or so ago.
>
>http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/taniagruning/index.html
>
><<snip>>
>
>The picture is painted by Hans Kniebel in 1582-84 and is the only known 
>picture of Christian IV as a child.
<<snip>>



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 15:51:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JpkHP001108
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:51:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JleUw014542
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:47:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JlcPl004734;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:47:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sca.uwaterloo.ca (sca.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.56.35])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JlYPl004664
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:47:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sca.uwaterloo.ca (sca.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54JlXHP001046
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:47:33 -0400
Received: (from fashion@localhost)
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h54JlXPm001045
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:47:33 -0400
From: fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <200306041947.h54JlXPm001045@sca.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] archives?
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:47:33 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10305291335030.8201-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
	from "Robin Netherton" at May 29, 2003 01:35:51 PM
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 
> On Thu, 29 May 2003, chiara wrote:
> 
> > Well, I have them in email format. If someone can tell me how to convert
> > them in mass into something downloadable I will put them on my site with the
> > others. :)
> 
> We really need a proper archive with a full-text search; Eric's is
> helpful, but not as good as it could be. There are huge volumes of
> valuable information in those years of postings, and I would hate for them
> to be lost.

I do have complete archives upto this very day - I was just deleting all
of that @#$#@$ spam that the list recieved.

The search engine had to be moved to a new URL because of the new version
of Linux I'm running.

So just go to http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion

I'm just working on the May archives right now.

I'd work on my archives a bit more but the twins are still a handfull.
At almost 3 months old now they're just getting out of "newborn" sized
clothes.  At almost 10 lb Ian is starting to feel like a heavyweight.

But as long as these kids are a black hole for time I've got no time
to update the search engine.

If anyone has a good search engine - I have all of the archives going back
to the dawn of time - 1993
 
 - Eric
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 16:07:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54K7pHP001233
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:07:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54K78Uw017045
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:07:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54K74KB019747;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:07:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54K6xKB019672
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:07:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17823
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:29:02 -0500
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:29:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] archives?
In-Reply-To: <200306041947.h54JlXPm001045@sca.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306041527590.16773-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca wrote:

> I do have complete archives upto this very day - I was just deleting all
> of that @#$#@$ spam that the list recieved.

Thank you!

> So just go to http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion
> 
> I'm just working on the May archives right now.
> 
> I'd work on my archives a bit more but the twins are still a handfull...
> But as long as these kids are a black hole for time I've got no time
> to update the search engine.
> 
> If anyone has a good search engine - I have all of the archives going back
> to the dawn of time - 1993

Eric, you do an invaluable service making these accessible. If someone can
combine forces with you to get us full-text search, that would be icing.
But I'm really, really glad you're willing to do as much as you do!

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 18:05:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54M5FHP001746
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:05:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54M4dUw000599
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:04:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54M4b64012469;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:04:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54M4Y64012353
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:04:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.75]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55)
          with SMTP id HFZ9BE00.4R0 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun
          2003 08:04:26 +1000 
Received: from 144.139.221.214 ([144.139.221.214]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM
	$Name: REL_3_3_2b $ 83/5610062); 05 Jun 2003 08:04:22
Message-ID: <005901c38062$4ce25ec0$d6dd8b90@clarke>
From: "Claire Clarke" <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <12e.2b821e60.2c0f8532@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Do these match enough?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:03:31 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <LoreleiMorte@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 3:24 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Do these match enough?


> Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight
> difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool.  Poop.
>
> Opinions?
> <A
HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/uk5.html">http://hometown.aol.com
/loreleimorte/uk5.html</A>
>
> btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the
right
> is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two
different
> dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona.
>
They look as near enough to make no difference to me. Maybe it's just my
monitor
but I can't tell the difference at all in the top photo, and only barely in
the bottom
one. I say don't worry about it.
Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 18:32:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54MWkHP001795
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:32:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54MV7Uw004110
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:31:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54MV164002812;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:31:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54MUu64002700
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:30:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19NgmV-000GuG-0W
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:30:55 +0100
Message-ID: <2UL7zjAP0R3+Iw3Q@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:11:27 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re:
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=5Bh-cost=5D__update_of_toill=E9_=28robe_francaise=29?=
References: <000b01c329e3$7f5137d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
In-Reply-To: <000b01c329e3$7f5137d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Bjarne,

Don't worry about the sleeves, just follow the pattern.  My mother made 
me a dress like this, from 400 miles away, and she didn't think it could 
possibly be right, but when I tried it on for the first time it was 
perfect.

Jean


Bjarne og Leif Drews <drewscph@post12.tele.dk> wrote
>Hi.
>there also is update of the francaise dress. I made the toille today.
>I am a little conserned about the sleaves. They sit very long way towards
>the back i think. But it fits in with the corset and when it comes to it,
>they had to stand straight and push their shoulders back ok?
>I have also cut the overskirt and now i am going to apply the embroidered
>panels to the blue silk. I am so happy, because these 3 days off my job
>every week, really pushes my work with sewing..........
>Anyway the update is here:
>http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html
>Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping.
>Hope you enjoy!
>
>Bjarne
>
>
>
>
>
>Leif og Bjarne Drews
>www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 19:14:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54NEZHP001989
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:14:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54NE2Uw008476
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:14:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54NDvEX000993;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:13:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cmsrelay02.mx.net (cmsrelay02.mx.net [165.212.11.111])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h54NDnEX000851
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:13:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from uadvg137.cms.usa.net (165.212.11.137)
  by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 2003 23:13:43 -0000
Received: from uwdvg018.cms.usa.net [165.212.8.18] by uadvg137.cms.usa.net
	(ASMTP/) via mtad (C8.MAIN.3.06H) 
	with ESMTP id 077HFDXNn0006M37; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:13:40 GMT
Received: from 206.163.135.253 [206.163.135.253] by uwdvg018.cms.usa.net 
	(USANET web-mailer CM.0402.5.5); Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:13:38 -0000
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:13:38 -0700
From: Shea Young <younganne@usa.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.5.5)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <152HFDXNM8592S18.1054768418@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h54NDnEX000851
Subject: [h-cost] Madder Red book
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear List,  
This book came through today and I don't recall it being mentioned before, but
it appears to be chuck full of information! 

Madder Red, a history of luxury and trade, by Robert Chenciner, 2000
 ISBN 0-7007-1259-3, cost $49.95

A bit of the jacket states, "The Industrial Revolution sparked a boom in
printed textiles and, as a result, demand grew for wool, silk and cottons dyed
bright red. An international madder race between Holland, France, Turkey, the
Causasus and Central Asia got underway to supply the massive world textile
market which was led by Britain.  The quest for Turkey red went hand in hand
with an avalanche of scientific research, which not only improved the yield of
dye stuff from the roots but led to its chemical synthesis and to the
inevitable collapse of the worldwide madder industry in the 1870s. May of the
nascent dye companies from this period subsequently became chemical giants of
our time."

Included is a glossary, appendices, notes, select bibliography, several
charts, lithographs, and pictures!

Enjoy,  Shea 


Shea Young ~ ~ ~ ~

"As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. JUMP! It is not as
wide as you think."  ~  Joesph Campbell



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 19:24:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54NOYHP002015
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:24:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54NO1Uw009546
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:24:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54NNxEX007383;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:23:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.126])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54NNqEX007280
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:23:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Nhbj-0007Kl-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:23:51 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Do these match enough?
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:23:50 -0700
Message-ID: <001201c32af0$5bfb4f60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <005901c38062$4ce25ec0$d6dd8b90@clarke>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Same here.

~They look as near enough to make no difference to me. Maybe it's just
my
~monitor
~but I can't tell the difference at all in the top photo, and only
barely in
~the bottom
~one. I say don't worry about it.
~Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 20:14:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550ETHP002145
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:14:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550DuUw014002
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:13:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550DqHf005120;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:13:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550DiHf005035
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:13:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h54Ljx4r022436
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.197.182] (tnt-1-246.HIP.Berkeley.EDU
	[136.152.197.182])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h54LjtuG022370
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100301bb03d76c444e@[136.152.197.134]>
In-Reply-To: <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
References: <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:10:08 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 7:17 AM -0700 6/4/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
>Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his britches
>(breeches)"?.  I learned it from my mother who was from the southern US.
>

I've always heard it as "too _big_ for his britches" (emphasis mine), 
which would fit better with the usual metaphoric patterns. (Consider 
the whole range of body-part metaphors invoking the metaphor "Size is 
Importance", such as "swelled head", "puffed up with importance", and 
so forth.)  That is, I read the saying as "he's so swelled up with 
self-importance that his clothes don't fit anymore".

I could see going from "too big" to "too good" by a simple 
substitution, but I'd have a harder time understanding "too good" as 
a completely independent saying unless it were in a context where 
"britches" were somehow considered lower class (i.e. "he think's he's 
too good to wear pants") which doesn't ring any historic resonances.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 20:22:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550MuHP002168
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:22:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550MPUw014619
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:22:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550MOHf009388;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:22:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h550MIHf009342
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:22:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 3657 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 00:22:17 -0000
Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8)
  by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 00:22:17 -0000
Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-124.sonic.net
	[209.148.112.124])
	by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h550MGM18472
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:22:16 -0700
X-envelope-info: <fran@lavoltapress.com>
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030604172237.00aaafa8@pop.sonic.net>
X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:23:52 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Lavolta Press <fran@lavoltapress.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from?
In-Reply-To: <p05100301bb03d76c444e@[136.152.197.134]>
References: <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
 <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>ore".
>
>I could see going from "too big" to "too good" by a simple substitution, 
>but I'd have a harder time understanding "too good" as a completely 
>independent saying unless it were in a context where "britches" were 
>somehow considered lower class (i.e. "he think's he's too good to wear pants")

or obscene!


>which doesn't ring any historic resonances.

I've never heard the "too good" saying, just the "too big."



Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and Vintage Dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance 


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun  4 20:49:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550nFHP002219
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:49:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550mlUw016286
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:48:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550mkHf021556;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:48:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mxout2.cac.washington.edu (mxout2.cac.washington.edu
	[140.142.33.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h550mfHg021522
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:48:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailhost2.u.washington.edu (mailhost2.u.washington.edu
	[140.142.33.2])ESMTP id h550me5R001429
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:48:40 -0700
Received: from [128.95.177.85] (gawne.urol.washington.edu [128.95.177.85])
	ESMTP id h550meQN015613
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:48:40 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:48:39 -0700
From: Agnes Gawne <gawne@mac.com>
To: H-costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB03E177.19A7%gawne@mac.com>
In-Reply-To: <152HFDXNM8592S18.1054768418@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h550mfHg021522
Subject: [h-cost] Too big for his breeches
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Here's the quote from the OED with this statement in it (it is under big,
not breeches, sorry.  Incidentally 'britches' isn't in the OED at all so it
must be an Americanism).

 e. Fig. phr. to get, grow, etc., too big for one's boots (breeches, etc.),
to become conceited, put on airs.
 
  1835 D. CROCKETT Tour to North 152 When a man gets too big for his
breeches, I say Good-bye. 1879 [see BOOT n.3 1c]. 1893 H. MAXWELL Life of W.
H. Smith I. ii. 57 Sometimes a young man, Œtoo big for his boots¹,
would..sniff at being put in charge of a railway bookstall. 1905 H. G. WELLS
Kipps III. ii. §1 He's getting too big for 'is britches. 1929 W. FAULKNER
Sound & Fury 270 You're getting a little too big for your pants. 1952 M.
LASKI Village xv, A young man who was getting too big for his boots.


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 00:11:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h554BJHP002608
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:11:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h554AfUw003580
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:10:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h554AbhP000160;
	Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:10:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h554AYhP000144
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:10:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F071B1FA17
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed,  4 Jun 2003 23:58:13 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EDED15F.9030305@grics.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:13:03 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Do these match enough?
References: <12e.2b821e60.2c0f8532@aol.com>
	<005901c38062$4ce25ec0$d6dd8b90@clarke>
In-Reply-To: <005901c38062$4ce25ec0$d6dd8b90@clarke>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'd say go for it,  the SCA-Garb list has been in an ongoing and 
fascinating discussion about differing color vision.  Seems some folks 
see color slightly differently in each eye!  *Caveat*: Haven't read the 
whole thing.

(Apologies if this annoys folks on both lists - i've been offline for 
looong time)

Heather L

Claire Clarke wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <LoreleiMorte@aol.com>
>To: <h-costume@indra.com>
>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 3:24 AM
>Subject: [h-cost] Do these match enough?
>
>
>  
>
>>Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight
>>difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool.  Poop.
>>
>>Opinions?
>><A
>>    
>>
>HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/uk5.html">http://hometown.aol.com
>/loreleimorte/uk5.html</A>
>  
>
>>btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the
>>    
>>
>right
>  
>
>>is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two
>>    
>>
>different
>  
>
>>dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona.
>>    
>>
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 06:03:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55A3xHP006048
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:03:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55A1YUw025027
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:01:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55A1Qh6014575;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:01:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41809.mail.yahoo.com (web41809.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.143])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h55A1Nh6014518
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:01:23 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030605100118.88234.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [132.185.132.12] by web41809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:01:18 PDT
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:01:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: elizabeth hervey <emhervey@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To: <200306041804.h54I4Be6017626@net.indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Inventory & Costume Sites
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Melanie's right there's .html on the end of those

www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html

www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/index.html

BTW very irritating for you if it's true Drea but it's nice you're generous about it & not greedy for money. It doesn't look like a commercial site to me and you're already mentioned twice in the costume page and you're on their recommended site list too http://www.tudorlinks.com/essential.html so at least if they have taken they've given too.

ATB,

Bess


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 06:46:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55AkqHP006131
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:46:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55AkJUw027658
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:46:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55AkHh6002907;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:46:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41803.mail.yahoo.com (web41803.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.137])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h55AkFh6002842
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:46:15 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030605104609.11154.qmail@web41803.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [132.185.240.13] by web41803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:46:09 PDT
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:46:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: elizabeth hervey <emhervey@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To: <200306041804.h54I4Be6017626@net.indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Inventory & Costume Sites
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Melanie's right there's .html on the end of those

www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html

www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/index.html

BTW very irritating for you if it's true Drea but it's nice you're generous about it & not greedy for money. It doesn't look like a commercial site to me and you're already mentioned twice in the costume page and you're on their recommended site list too http://www.tudorlinks.com/essential.html so at least if they have taken they've given too.

ATB,

Bess


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 08:38:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CcRHP010574
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:38:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CbrUw006053
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:37:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CbpPQ019355;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:37:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CbmPQ019297
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:37:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a249.in-tch.com [66.62.107.49])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h55CJBr05558
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:19:11 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDF39F8.BD7A79A9@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:39:20 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Do these match enough?
References: <001201c32af0$5bfb4f60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'd say go for it.  I can see *very* slight color differences in both
the top example and the second example, but it is very slight.
Good luck....
sue

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Same here.
> 
> ~They look as near enough to make no difference to me. Maybe it's just
> my
> ~monitor
> ~but I can't tell the difference at all in the top photo, and only
> barely in
> ~the bottom
> ~one. I say don't worry about it.
> ~Claire
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 08:41:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CfgHP010587
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:41:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CfDUw006320
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:41:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CfCPQ020618;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:41:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Cf9PQ020526
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:41:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a249.in-tch.com [66.62.107.49])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h55CMSr07862
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:22:31 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDF3ABD.1859FCB1@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:42:37 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV
References: <20030604144957.16108.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oooh! I like the fabric!
And you're right, the sleeves do look sewn in....
--sue

Tania Gruning wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Here is a link to a picture I mentioned a month or so ago.
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/taniagruning/index.html
> 
> Sorry about the banners and stuff, but that is the way it is.
> 
> The picture is painted by Hans Kniebel in 1582-84 and is the only known picture of Christian IV as a child.
> 
> I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet.
> 
> Tania
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 08:47:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55ClOHP010614
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:47:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CkLUw006802
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:46:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CkKPQ023219;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:46:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55CkHPQ023176
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:46:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a249.in-tch.com [66.62.107.49])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h55CRer13506
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:27:40 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDF3BF5.C1F5BFBC@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:47:49 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
References: <20030604130911.P1118-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yeah, parts of it certainly "sound" familiar.  Lazy, at the very least,
I'd think....
--sue's two pence worth...

Drea Leed wrote:
> 
> Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was
> nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations
> and all.
> 
> :}
> 
> Drea
> 
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, elizabeth hervey wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over £39, so this is a good time to buy!
> >
> > Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've already seen them.
> >
> > Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion
> >
> > www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/
> >
> > 1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim to make those men's drawers for!
> >
> > Tudor Links Costume page
> >
> > www.tudorlinks.com/textiles
> >
> > Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites with some I'd never seen before.
> >
> > Bess
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 09:37:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DbqHP010801
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:37:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DbGUw011641
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:37:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DbCTw017824;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:37:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.116])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DbATw017801
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:37:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NuvV-00045a-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:37:09 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Too big for his breeches
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:37:08 -0700
Message-ID: <000f01c32b67$900e7bc0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="windows-1256"
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <BB03E177.19A7%gawne@mac.com>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h55DbATw017801
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks to everyone for their replies and yes you all are correct, I had
said it incorrectly-It was "too big"  not "too good".  And yes,
"britches" is a an American colloquialism.  Thanks again, 

Sg



~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Agnes Gawne
~Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:49 PM
~To: H-costume
~Subject: [h-cost] Too big for his breeches
~
~Here's the quote from the OED with this statement in it (it is under
big,
~not breeches, sorry.  Incidentally 'britches' isn't in the OED at all
so it
~must be an Americanism).
~
~ e. Fig. phr. to get, grow, etc., too big for one's boots (breeches,
etc.),
~to become conceited, put on airs.
~
~  1835 D. CROCKETT Tour to North 152 When a man gets too big for his
~breeches, I say Good-bye. 1879 [see BOOT n.3 1c]. 1893 H. MAXWELL Life
of W.
~H. Smith I. ii. 57 Sometimes a young man, Œtoo big for his boots¹,
~would..sniff at being put in charge of a railway bookstall. 1905 H. G.
WELLS
~Kipps III. ii. §1 He's getting too big for 'is britches. 1929 W.
FAULKNER
~Sound & Fury 270 You're getting a little too big for your pants. 1952
M.
~LASKI Village xv, A young man who was getting too big for his boots.
~
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 09:45:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DjVHP010828
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:45:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DiwUw012443
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:44:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DivTw021203;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:44:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55DitTw021182
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:44:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-14-64.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.64] helo=pavilion)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Nv2v-0005TW-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:44:52 -0700
Message-ID: <00a901c32b6a$aaed1de0$400e77d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <12e.2b821e60.2c0f8532@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Do these match enough?  
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:59:04 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Sarra, wrote:
> Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight
> difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool.  Poop.
>
> Opinions?
> <A
HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/uk5.html">http://hometown.aol.com
/loreleimorte/uk5.html</A>
>
> btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the
right
> is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two
different
> dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona.

I wasn't able to look at the fabric as the link didn't work, but even if the
fabric doesn't match perfectly, unmatched fabric would have definitely
occurred more often before synthetic dyes, especially while using small dye
vats.  Your slightly mismatched fabric would only add to the natural beauty
of your garment and might even lead to an interesting discussing of period
dyeing practices and pitfalls.

Lisa

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 10:38:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Ec2HP011010
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:38:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55EW4Uw017183
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:32:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55EW1f6019036;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:32:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.74])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55EVbf6018724
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:31:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19NvmC-0007cd-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 07:31:36 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:31:34 -0700
Message-ID: <000c01c32b6f$2b4da960$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Best Breughel Books
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi guys, I am looking to buy a book on Breughel and since I live in
buckwheat egypt have limited access to stores where I can actually put
my hands on the books to decide what I want.  If any of you have
suggestions about which volumes have the best pictures I'd like to hear
what they are.  I'd be interested in both paintings and woodblocks of
all the relatives.
 
Thanks in advance, Sg
 
"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 11:57:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55FvJHP011554
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:57:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55FuhUw026333
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:56:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55FufFL013113;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:56:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55FuaFL013048
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:56:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by
	mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h55FuYp06625.; Thu, 5 Jun
	2003 16:56:35 +0100 (BST)
Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk
	with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:56:29 +0100
Message-Id: <sedf763d.014@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:56:19 +0100
From: "Kate M Bunting" <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h55FuaFL013048
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Tania wrote:

>>>I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet.

Do you mean as opposed to tied on? I've noticed that 16th/17th century costumes in films sometimes have the sleeves only partially attached, but not seen any written references to them not being sewn on. I know some types of garment had elaborate detachable sleeves, but for a standard doublet with the sleeves matching the body, why would they not be stitched in place?



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 13:31:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55HVtHP011924
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:31:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55HVCUw008284
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:31:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55HV03X022799;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:31:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55HUh3Y022520
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:30:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dandy.net (acty2106.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.106])
	by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h55HUqrf004472
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:30:53 -0400
Message-ID: <3EDF7E02.10608@dandy.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:29:38 -0400
From: michael tartaglio <mikes@dandy.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Best Breughel Books
References: <000c01c32b6f$2b4da960$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi, All. Saragrace, both Borders Press and Taschen have books out 
currently. Taschen is listed as being "complete" with all of the 
paintings (I haven't checked whether or not this is true, I wouldn't 
know if it wasn't). If you can find a copy (I have one), ther is a 1963 
Dover book called "Graphic Worlds of Peter Bruegel the Elder" by H. 
Arthur Klein that has 64 engravings in it. I wouldn't know how complete 
of a work there is out there, but those are my usual sources. Cheers, 
Mike T.

>  
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 14:59:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Ix0HP012328
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:59:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55IwCUw020474
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:58:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55IwAG2028896;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:58:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55Iw5G2028829
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:58:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f55.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.85])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D0BD75EE1FD
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu,  5 Jun 2003 20:58:03 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000c01c32b94$7e807d90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:58:46 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] shocking pink
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,
I dont remember if i asked you before, well i do it again.
I looked in my closet, and found a bunch of silk dupionis in a plastic bag,
i had forgot all about them.
Well there is a shocking pink, and i tell you it is really vivid colour, but
nice.
I have 12 meters of it.
Then i have always wanted to make a robe anglaise, with this beautifull back
cut. There is a lovely pattern by
Arnold in the small Kyoto book, and there is a picture of it in the large
Kyoto book, dated from 1785-90, so it is rather late date for this fashion.
Now i have seen  in the book, there are other garments made in pink, but
would my shocking pink fit in?
I want to make this as a gift for a lady i have met on another list. She is
reenacting with the Swedish society of Gustafs Skål, because she has offered
me acomodations at her place, when i am going next month for a Grande Fete a
la Nature, at the Haga Castle.
A dress like this, and a black huge hat with a large pink bow, with a pink
ribbon trimmed at the hat brim,
how does that sound?
Any suggestions, oppinions are warmly welcomed,

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 15:25:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55JPFHP012429
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:25:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55JOgUw024093
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:24:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55JOaG2018898;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:24:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h55JOUG2018713
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:24:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWs37rEI5dRRhz1gPmF6UZDdMfuElY+v2rw==">; Thu, 05 Jun 2003
	12:23:37 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZXDUJDL; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:23:37 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:24:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Message-ID: <20030605.152458.-407669.5.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5
From: catpurson@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

        It isn't a period I am very familiar with, but the whole gown/hat
thing sound fantastic to me.  If you ever want to come to Florida let me
know and you can stay at my house.  I won't even ask for a gown, just to
see some of your work up close.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 15:38:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55JcHHP012482
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:38:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55JbhUw025996
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:37:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55JbfG2028980;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:37:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55JbcG2028938
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:37:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f55.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.85])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1FD7A5EE18F
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu,  5 Jun 2003 21:37:37 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001c01c32b9a$06880000$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030605.152458.-407669.5.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:38:22 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Lalah.
Oh that is very generous of you, thankyou.
Well, one never knows, but i hate fly that long, and i have a fobia about
flying over water for a long time, i know it is crazy, but it is because my
worst dying nightmare is drowning.
When i go to England, i fly over water, i know, but it is only a short time,
and i sit and think, i think we make it, i think we make it.
It is crazy.
Florida sounds very tempting though, i love to swim in the ocean!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <catpurson@juno.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink


>         It isn't a period I am very familiar with, but the whole gown/hat
> thing sound fantastic to me.  If you ever want to come to Florida let me
> know and you can stay at my house.  I won't even ask for a gown, just to
> see some of your work up close.
>
> Lalah
> Never give up, Never surrender
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 16:28:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KSrHP012641
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:28:53 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KSGUw001787
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:28:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KSBED006487;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:28:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KS3ED006399
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:28:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bently (dialport64.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.15.36])
	by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA04975
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <006b01c32ba0$f22b6dc0$240fbbd0@bently>
From: "David" <someone@eskimo.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030605.152458.-407669.5.catpurson@juno.com>
	<001c01c32b9a$06880000$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:27:50 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Bjarne,

Don't forget, you don't have to fly...you can take an ocean liner like I'm
going to do on my way home!  And if you get as far as Florida, you really
should go the extra couple thousand miles and visit me in Seattle.<g> We
have the Pacific Ocean here, I think Lalah only has the Gulf of Mexico.

Pam Dotson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink


> Dear Lalah.
> Oh that is very generous of you, thankyou.
> Well, one never knows, but i hate fly that long, and i have a fobia about
> flying over water for a long time, i know it is crazy, but it is because
my
> worst dying nightmare is drowning.
> When i go to England, i fly over water, i know, but it is only a short
time,
> and i sit and think, i think we make it, i think we make it.
> It is crazy.
> Florida sounds very tempting though, i love to swim in the ocean!
>
> Bjarne
>
>
>
>
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <catpurson@juno.com>
> To: <h-costume@indra.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
>
>
> >         It isn't a period I am very familiar with, but the whole
gown/hat
> > thing sound fantastic to me.  If you ever want to come to Florida let me
> > know and you can stay at my house.  I won't even ask for a gown, just to
> > see some of your work up close.
> >
> > Lalah
> > Never give up, Never surrender
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 16:35:12 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KZBHP012669
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:35:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KYcUw002612
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:34:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KYZED011546;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:34:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55KYSED011443
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:34:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-013scfairp0472.dialsprint.net ([63.183.129.218]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19O1RL-0000G1-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:34:27 -0700
Message-ID: <3EDFB704.3050002@faucet.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:32:52 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
References: <20030605.152458.-407669.5.catpurson@juno.com>
	<001c01c32b9a$06880000$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<006b01c32ba0$f22b6dc0$240fbbd0@bently>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

David wrote:
> Bjarne,
> 
> Don't forget, you don't have to fly...you can take an ocean liner like I'm
> going to do on my way home!  And if you get as far as Florida, you really
> should go the extra couple thousand miles and visit me in Seattle.<g> We
> have the Pacific Ocean here, I think Lalah only has the Gulf of Mexico.

Ah, but I'm closer than both of them, so you don't have to fly (or sail) 
so far!  I'm in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, which is on the Atlantic 
Coast, and this is known as a beach resort town!

Just let me know when you'll be dropping by...

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 17:26:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LQoHP012834
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:26:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LQCUw008714
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:26:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LQ4Xe020760;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:26:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LQ1Xe020715
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:26:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19O2FD-0001Zy-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:25:59 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] shocking pink
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:26:00 -0700
Message-ID: <000401c32ba9$0fca2800$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <3EDFB704.3050002@faucet.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Okay, I have to make my pitch too...when it gets really cold in winter
you and your honey could always stay at my place outside Phoenix to warm
up!!  About the pink fabric though......I don't know that period much
either, but even if it were acceptable it would probably bug me.  Would
you consider over-dying it?  I just love vat dying in my machine and you
could get the crispness back by starching it.  I have used Dharma's
procion dye "bronze" to tone down everything from red to green with
success.  Wouldn't hurt to test a piece though.

Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 17:30:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LUCHP012851
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:30:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LTcUw009187
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:29:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LTaXe023670;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:29:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LTRXe023552
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:29:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19O2IY-000Ogh-0W
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:29:26 +0100
Message-ID: <mOAfFtDgX73+Iw0K@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:28:00 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from?
References: <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
 <000801c32aa3$fbf8ac80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
 <p05100301bb03d76c444e@[136.152.197.134]>
 <5.2.0.9.0.20030604172237.00aaafa8@pop.sonic.net>
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030604172237.00aaafa8@pop.sonic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Lavolta Press <fran@lavoltapress.com> wrote
>
>>ore".
>>
>>I could see going from "too big" to "too good" by a simple 
>>substitution, but I'd have a harder time understanding "too good" as a 
>>completely independent saying unless it were in a context where 
>>"britches" were somehow considered lower class (i.e. "he think's he's 
>>too good to wear pants")
>
>or obscene!
>
But now we do have "too sexy for my shirt".  Did that phrase exist 
before Right Said Fred, or is it original?

Jean
>
-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 18:13:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MDXHP012964
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:13:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MCuUw014665
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:12:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MCtJ5028464;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:12:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MCqJ5028437
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:12:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19O2yZ-0005gx-00; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:12:51 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:12:52 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c32baf$9be2d070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
cc: Heather Heroldt-work <hheroldt@mindspring.com>
Subject: [h-cost] A fun way to experiment with color
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I think Lisa may have turned us on the other day to a shareware program
that allowed you to experiment with colors.  I happened to see an add
for Behr paint that had a similar tool on the web.  They will suggest
colors and you can change them easily.  You can even put them on the
their virtual walls.  You can create an account to save your work. It is
a great way to experiment not only with paint but garb palates as well
 
http://www.behr.com/
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 18:34:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MYWHP013024
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:34:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MXuUw016763
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:33:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MXtS1013952;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:33:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f35.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.35])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MXqS1013826
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:33:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:33:46 -0700
Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:33:45 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226]
X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com]
From: "jessica stier" <jessicastier@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:33:45 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Law10-F353ednHM3SOl0007df35@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2003 22:33:46.0230 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[86CD9960:01C32BB2]
Subject: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and was hoping to get some 
good advice...

My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as an early graduation 
present.  She wants me to pick it out and so I'm doing a little bit of 
research and would love to hear the opinions of the listmembers on what your 
favorite type of dress form is and why.

I'd really like to get a professional/durable form.  I currently have one of 
those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally purchased in a size too 
small for any real use.  I decided to keep it in case I had daughters or 
early teen sized people I was making things for.  However, now I want to get 
a real dress form that will earn it's keep.

I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and dealer of forms such as I 
need.  I will ask at school tonight, but until then... any tips or hints on 
your favorite dress form and why?

Also, size-wize...  what size would you get if you plan on using it 
regularly?  At school, we use the industry standard - 8.  But in my mind 
that is just a bit too small.  I'm thinking about a 10.  Any thoughts?

Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos.
You guys are the best!!!

:) jessica

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 18:39:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MdiHP013052
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:39:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55McOUw017281
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:38:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55McNS1017227;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:38:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h55McKS1017131
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:38:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWs37rEI5dRRhA+BXqOEsnf/BPZqaCIDwWA==">; Thu, 05 Jun 2003
	15:37:19 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZXQW8AL; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:37:19 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:38:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Message-ID: <20030605.183839.-407669.0.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,8-9,11-13
From: catpurson@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

<<<I think Lalah only has the Gulf of Mexico.>>>  Not so.  I live in
Central Florida almost equally distant from the Gulf of Mexico and the
Atlantic Ocean (about an hour and a half drive in either direction).  And
near enough to Disney World and Universal and Sea World that I worked at
Disney for four years a while back.  

        However if Bjarne is worried about drowning, I am not sure a ship
would be better than an airplane.  Personally, I don't fly anywhere
unless I absolutely have to so the ship would be the answer for me.  

        But the invitation is open for any time you (and Lief) care to
come visit.  As long as you aren't allergic to cats, that is. 

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 18:55:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MtUHP013101
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:55:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MstUw019269
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:54:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MsrS1029034;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:54:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MsmS1028885
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:54:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.7c.39d38e05 (14374)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:54:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:54:38 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I thought you didn't like your melon orange gown and now you want to make one 
in hot pink???? Personally I love yards of bright color, especially if it's 
set off with touches of some other unexpected but beautiful color.

Shocking pink is a 20th century color....though I have seen a bright fuchsia 
1860s ball gown. Dupioni dyes easily but will go soft and not be as crisp. 
Still keeps the sheen though. You might want to tone it down a little.

There is a stomacher that is bright pink in Fashion in Detail, I think. It's 
made to look like a waistcoat and was probably worn with some type of habit [I 
like to imagine it with a grey]. But the pink is kinda dark if I remember 
correctly. There are some bright pink gowns but, like with the electric blue, 
they usually have some kind of pattern brocaded or embroidered all over them. You 
could embroider say, oh, white peonies with dark green leaves all over the 12 
meters.....

If you start now you may finish before you die. [actually, knowing you, 
you'll be done by July!]
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 18:57:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MvPHP013113
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:57:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MuoUw019530
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:56:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MumG0000695;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:56:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55MueG0000485
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:56:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.ba.4018fe65 (14374)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <ba.4018fe65.2c112495@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:21 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/5/2003 4:04:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


> but it is because my
> worst dying nightmare is drowning.
> 

I guess a cruise is out of the question.....
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 19:50:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NoZHP013363
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:50:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NnuUw026195
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:49:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NnqG0006378;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:49:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NnmG1006349
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:49:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-172-63-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[64.172.63.99])h55Np3Ae073852
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:49:42 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] A fun way to experiment with color
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <000001c32baf$9be2d070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Message-Id: <60C9CA2C-97B0-11D7-97D0-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I love www.colorschemer.com --
it uses traditional color wheels to generate color schemes.


On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:12 PM, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> I think Lisa may have turned us on the other day to a shareware program
> that allowed you to experiment with colors.  I happened to see an add
> for Behr paint that had a similar tool on the web.  They will suggest
> colors and you can change them easily.  You can even put them on the
> their virtual walls.  You can create an account to save your work. It 
> is
> a great way to experiment not only with paint but garb palates as well
>
> http://www.behr.com/
>
> Sg
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 19:53:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NruHP013368
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:53:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NrNUw026460
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:53:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NrNG0008003;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:53:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55NrJG1007970
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:53:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-172-63-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[64.172.63.99])h55NsZAe073882
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:53:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <Law10-F353ednHM3SOl0007df35@hotmail.com>
Message-Id: <DF111B0C-97B0-11D7-97D0-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I love both the Wolf and Superior dress forms.  they're so incredibly
durable and sturdy.  and you can pad them up the same way you
do with other forms...

what are you planning on using it regularly for?  if it's for you, then 
I would
get one a size smaller than you are, so you can pad it up for everyday,
and have it be a bit smaller than you are for corseted looks.


On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:33 PM, jessica stier wrote:

> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and was hoping to get 
> some good advice...
>
> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as an early 
> graduation present.  She wants me to pick it out and so I'm doing a 
> little bit of research and would love to hear the opinions of the 
> listmembers on what your favorite type of dress form is and why.
>
> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form.  I currently have 
> one of those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally purchased in 
> a size too small for any real use.  I decided to keep it in case I had 
> daughters or early teen sized people I was making things for.  
> However, now I want to get a real dress form that will earn it's keep.
>
> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and dealer of forms such 
> as I need.  I will ask at school tonight, but until then... any tips 
> or hints on your favorite dress form and why?
>
> Also, size-wize...  what size would you get if you plan on using it 
> regularly?  At school, we use the industry standard - 8.  But in my 
> mind that is just a bit too small.  I'm thinking about a 10.  Any 
> thoughts?
>
> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos.
> You guys are the best!!!
>
> :) jessica
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 21:05:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5615VHP013502
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:05:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56151Uw001905
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:05:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5614xf3015543;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:04:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5614of3015445
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:04:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h560kCr18341
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:46:12 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDFE90D.347E4E02@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:06:21 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV
References: <sedf763d.014@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

A lot of the extant garments (including sleeves) in _Patterns of
Fashion_, which covers Christian IV's time period, are laced in
place....
--sue

Kate M Bunting wrote:
> 
> Tania wrote:
> 
> >>>I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet.
> 
> Do you mean as opposed to tied on? I've noticed that 16th/17th century costumes in films sometimes have the sleeves only partially attached, but not seen any written references to them not being sewn on. I know some types of garment had elaborate detachable sleeves, but for a standard doublet with the sleeves matching the body, why would they not be stitched in place?
> 
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 21:42:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561gLHP013593
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:42:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561flUw004518
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:41:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561fjf3001906;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:41:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561fcf3001802
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:41:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h561N0r03603
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:23:00 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDFF1AD.823217C0@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:43:09 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
References: <000401c32ba9$0fca2800$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I agree with Saragrace's idea of overdying. You could get lovely shades
from rose to magenta pretty easily.
I've got shocking pink wool and matching linen to do a "test" Gothic
Fitted Gown, but I'm distinctly _not_ going for an authentic color
combination in that case--I WANT it to be eye-popping.  (Teddy
challenged me, a couple of years ago....<g>) I've got a purpley-fuchsia
wool for an overgown, AND some tangerine-orange velvet for a sideless
surcoat.
And I'll put in my pitch for Bjarne to visit my neck of the woods...we
have the Rocky Mountains, bee-yootiful scenery, and no oceans at all. 
We get nasty winters, too, but it'd be very different from Denmark, I
think...
--sue, who was more peeved that clouds were blocking her view of the
Atlantic than anything....but then, I like flying, and hey, coming back,
I got to see the whole country of Ireland from 30,000ft+....<huge grin>

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Okay, I have to make my pitch too...when it gets really cold in winter
> you and your honey could always stay at my place outside Phoenix to warm
> up!!  About the pink fabric though......I don't know that period much
> either, but even if it were acceptable it would probably bug me.  Would
> you consider over-dying it?  I just love vat dying in my machine and you
> could get the crispness back by starching it.  I have used Dharma's
> procion dye "bronze" to tone down everything from red to green with
> success.  Wouldn't hurt to test a piece though.
> 
> Sg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 21:44:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561ibHP013597
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:44:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561i7Uw004706
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:44:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561i6f3002821;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:44:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h561i4f3002777
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:44:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h561PQr04527
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:25:26 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EDFF23F.783DF0CA@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:45:35 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
References: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

All this talk of bright colors reminds me of something....
A few months ago, wasn't someone asking for advice on how to dye with
turmeric? Well, I actually ran across instructions for same in a book on
natural dyes that I happened to buy.  It's supposed to make a fairly
intense, *relatively* light-fast yellow, at least on wool.  When I get
more yarn mordanted, I'm gonna try it....
--sue
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 23:04:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5634rHP013807
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:04:53 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5634MUw011009
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:04:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5634K2P010507;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:04:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.57])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5634H2P010494
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:04:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host-66-81-240-181.rev.o1.com ([66.81.240.181]
	helo=[66.81.243.212])
	by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19O7Wa-0002rT-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:04:17 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org
Message-Id: <p05100305bb05acd9cc37@[66.81.243.212]>
In-Reply-To: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
References: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:00:10 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Chris Laning <claning@igc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Subject: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 6:54 PM -0400 6/5/03, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:
>I thought you didn't like your melon orange gown and now you want to make one
>in hot pink???? Personally I love yards of bright color, especially if it's
>set off with touches of some other unexpected but beautiful color.
>
>Shocking pink is a 20th century color....though I have seen a bright fuchsia
>1860s ball gown. Dupioni dyes easily but will go soft and not be as crisp.
>Still keeps the sheen though. You might want to tone it down a little.

There's a natural dye called orchil or archil that's made from 
certain species of lichen -- I brewed up a batch of it a number of 
years ago -- which can produce anything from a hot, almost 
fluorescent pink to a similarly vivid sort of purplish fuchsia -- the 
only natural dye I've ever seen that *clashes* with other natural 
dyes. (Unfortunately it isn't terribly light-fast.)

Orchil was originally imported from around the Mediterranean until 
Europeans figured out how to make it, but it's been known in Europe 
since at least the third century. Admittedly, the documentary 
evidence is mostly about its use in recipes for faking a Tyrian 
purple color, or for stretching a limited supply of the expensive 
stuff to cover more yarn or fabric. There are also other, mostly 
rather vague bits of evidence for the use of orchil or something like 
it in parts of "Dark Age" Europe, specifically in Scandinavia and in 
Gaul.

So it was at least _possible_ to produce a sort of "shocking pink" 
color even before the age of aniline dyes; the question then would be 
whether it was used alone, and if so, how popular it was. I certainly 
agree that there is far more "shocking pink" in the 20th century than 
in any previous era :)
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     <claning@igc.org>
+    Davis, California
_________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun  5 23:36:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h563agHP013908
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:36:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h563a8Uw014721
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:36:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h563a62P028139;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:36:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h563Zx2Q028079
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:36:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h563aHdN004834
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:36:18 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h563aHhG004832
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:36:17 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:36:17 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <000401c32ba9$0fca2800$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<3EDFF1AD.823217C0@in-tch.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EDFF1AD.823217C0@in-tch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306052336.17530.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h563Zx2Q028079
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Thursday 05 June 2003 09:43 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote:
> I agree with Saragrace's idea of overdying. You could get lovely shades
> from rose to magenta pretty easily.

Though I think Lalah made a good point--test dye a small piece first.  It 
would be sad to ruin perfectly good silk in the name of authenticity.

[rest cut]

-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 00:19:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h564JXHP013958
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:19:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h564HuUw018867
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:17:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h564HrEM019254;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:17:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h564HoEM019226
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:17:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HG100HOEL9MOM@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:17:47 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:48:30 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
In-reply-to: <3EDFF23F.783DF0CA@in-tch.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030605204734.02e8bbc0@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 07:45 PM 6/5/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>A few months ago, wasn't someone asking for advice on how to dye with
>turmeric? Well, I actually ran across instructions for same in a book on
>natural dyes that I happened to buy.

Hi Sue,

Mind sharing the name of that book? Any idea how well it dyes yellow on 
Linen? I am willing to test it myself sometime, but just wondering.

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 07:08:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56B8tHP017784
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:08:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56B8JUw020130
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:08:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56B8C2E006684;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:08:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56B892E006632
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 05:08:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0162.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.80.163])
	by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DF6BE9E0
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri,  6 Jun 2003 13:08:03 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE076B8.7030604@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:10:48 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] H-costume meeting Netherlands??
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

Since so many people are saying that they would like to meet I've got an 
idea.
What about meeting eachother somewere in the Netherlands  next year or so?
(Less problems with water for Bjarne ;-) )
I would be glad to organise such an event.

Greetings,
        Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 09:49:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Dn3HP019414
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:49:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56DlGUw000367
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:47:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56DlD9C010419;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:47:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56Dl89C010345
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:47:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCuh+Dv9VPmzxlHGzHbKq8mOH4mgMgaF+cQ==">; Fri, 06 Jun 2003
	09:46:58 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZZCYT42; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:46:58 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:15:58 -0500
Message-ID: <20030606.081558.-255519201.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,8-10
From: seamstrix@juno.com
Subject: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hello Everyone,


I have a silk and pearl Elizabethan partlet that is starting to look a
bit grungy around the neck. I have hand washed it with mild soap in the
past, but I'd really like to get it clean for the start of my RenFaire
season. I know that using bleach on it is a big ol' no-no, but I was
wondering if I could use the new oxygen cleaners for an added punch to
the wash. Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue?


Karen

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 09:55:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Dt4HP019442
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:55:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56DqmUw000710
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:52:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Dql9C012764;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:52:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.116])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Dqh9C012728
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:52:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dialup-67.73.139.96.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([67.73.139.96]
	helo=earthlink.net)
	by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19OHe6-0007ZL-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 06:52:42 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE09C66.83F7F375@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:51:34 -0500
From: Ms Berard <msberard@earthlink.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD   (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
References: <20030606.081558.-255519201.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

If you have any extra pearls you may wish to see what "oxygen cleaners"
do to them. That would be the biggest concern.

Since you've never used a bleach and it is not an antique there
shouldn't be any adverse chemical reactions, but long term stability is
always a question with anything that is "new".

Onaree

seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I have a silk and pearl Elizabethan partlet that is starting to look a
> bit grungy around the neck. I have hand washed it with mild soap in the
> past, but I'd really like to get it clean for the start of my RenFaire
> season. I know that using bleach on it is a big ol' no-no, but I was
> wondering if I could use the new oxygen cleaners for an added punch to
> the wash. Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue?
> 
> Karen
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Proud list mom of  Irish Crochet Lovers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 10:04:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56E4KHP019461
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:04:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56E2KUw001578
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:02:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56E2Jqe017359;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:02:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.188])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h55LfLXe003449
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:41:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-16-206.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.206] helo=w7m1l6)
	by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19O2PW-00010o-00; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:36:39 -0700
Message-ID: <000f01c32baa$8c0cf540$ce1077d8@w7m1l6>
From: "Stephen Bergdahl" <madlystitching@earthlink.net>
To: "Yamatoku Corp" <saler@toku.co.jp>, <WKmerchants_Trade@yahoogroups.com>,
   <wai1000qisd@excite.com>, <VICKIDEVOR@aol.com>,
   "Tracy Jackson" <tracy@fabric.com>,
   "Tia Kitchen" <Tia.Kitchen@RaymondJames.com>,
   "Terrance May" <terrance_may@hotmail.com>, <tabasco@launchnet.com>,
   "Susan" <susan@costumegallery.com>,
   "Sorcha Fhionn inghean uiRuairc" <pjbarnes1@yahoo.com>,
   <sierraminded@yahoo.com>, "shulas" <shulas@juno.com>,
   "Shannon McAleese" <s_mcaleese@hotmail.com>,
   "Shannon Laney" <kyrstyan@hotmail.com>, <sca-west@yahoogroups.com>,
   <SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU>, <SCAFoodandFeasts@yahoogroups.com>,
   <SCAbyzantine@yahoogroups.com>,
   "SCA Clan Blue Feather Mailing List" <bluefeather@bluefeather.org>,
   "Sarge Buffy" <sgtbuffy@hotmail.com>,
   "Romance Writers Guild" <Sja776@aol.com>,
   "Real772Rape" <i8dndqbj8yc9@comcast.net>, <RandWhit@aol.com>,
   "Penny Ladnier" <costumegallery@comcast.net>,
   "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>,
   "Pat" <LuxuryPlay@mail01.media-answers.com>,
   "Nicole Bradley" <blonde_623_nikki@hotmail.com>,
   "Nathaniel, Jacqueline" <Jacqueline.Nathaniel@ed.gov>, <mabse@attbi.com>,
   <margospatterns@yahoogroups.com>,
   "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>, <bergdahl@ix.netcom.com>,
   "Kuhn. Toni" <KuhnTo@SacCounty.net>, <kd9@jsd.com>,
   <judymitch@oldwaylane.net>, "JT" <fglizzy24@yahoo.com>,
   "Joyce" <joycebre@sbcglobal.net>, <Jody.Balfour@tklaw.com>,
   "JoAnn Peterson" <JoAnn@lafnmoon.com>,
   "Jane Beckman" <jilara@earthlink.com>,
   "James Arriaga" <jarriaga@etrade.com>, <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>,
   <hilarypoet@netscape.net>, <celestriacrimson@earthlink.net>,
   <h-costume@indra.com>, <GSACG@yahoogroups.com>,
   "Gregory" <rhadamenthes@yahoo.com>, <crimsonkil@lycos.com>,
   <GoldenRivers@yahoogroups.com>, "Geo lithos" <geolithos@yahoo.com>,
   <Fashionreporting@aol.com>, <ezra@sacbodymud.com>,
   <DudesOffCampus@yahoogroups.com>, <heresy@mindspring.com>,
   "Denise Robello" <threadwalker@yahoo.com>, <david@synergex.com>,
   <DanegeldTor@yahoogroups.com>, <DadsList@yahoogroups.com>,
   <ClothiersGuild@yahoogroups.com>,
   "Celeste La Melancolique" <celestethemelancholic@hotmail.com>,
   <jousselme@wanadoo.fr>, <rosenau5@yahoo.com>,
   "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" <kayta@frys.com>,
   <bucknakedinpublic@yahoogroups.com>, <bijockco@aol.com>,
   "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>,
   "Bergdahl, Heidi" <heidi.bergdahl@usaa.com>,
   <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:36:16 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-ELNK-Trace: 08dba192340bde6e1a6ab3b9b70940f894f5150ab1c16ac027907a4ca0ac1adf28e8102df8d76f9c54df6c0e5891aa47350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:02:17 -0600
Subject: [h-cost] Email Change
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

To those of you who don't know already I have changed my Email for
madly@2xtreme.net to

madlystitching@earthlink.net

Please make note of this.

Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich

"I don't suffer from insanity!  I fact I rather enjoy it!"

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 10:06:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56E6IHP019471
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:06:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56E3iUw001696
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:03:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56E3iqe018112;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:03:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56E3eqe018031
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:03:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.79.1294eb55 (16110)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:03:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-m07.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.135]) by
	air-id12.mx.aol.com (v94.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID122-3eee3ee09f30c0; Fri, 06
	Jun 2003 10:03:29 -0400
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:03:28 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <10522526.61295F18.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

You will laugh, but grandma, who has a full set of teeth, uses denture-cleaning tablets (efferdent)to take organic stains out of fine washables.  We did this to restore the silk and linen christening gown set her grandmother was christened in so my children could wear it.  Before the treatment, the fabric was on the yellow side of "cream"...now it's alabaster white.

:) Constance

seamstrix@juno.com wrote:

>Hello Everyone,
>
>
>I have a silk and pearl Elizabethan partlet that is starting to look a
>bit grungy around the neck. I have hand washed it with mild soap in the
>past, but I'd really like to get it clean for the start of my RenFaire
>season. I know that using bleach on it is a big ol' no-no, but I was
>wondering if I could use the new oxygen cleaners for an added punch to
>the wash. Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue?
>
>
>Karen
>
>________________________________________________________________
>The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
>Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 10:17:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EHDHP019506
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:17:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EFCUw002522
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:15:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EF9qe023648;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:15:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EF2qe023603
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:15:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-98-177.friaco.onetel.net.uk
	[213.78.98.177])3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id ADZ80482;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:14:55 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <006f01c32c35$ffc1ddd0$b1624ed5@your1p37d9kihs>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030606.081558.-255519201.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:14:51 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Do you have vanish there ?

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 10:27:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56ERVHP019551
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:27:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EPnUw003480
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:25:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EPlqe000125;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:25:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56EPiqe029947
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:25:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCuh+Dv9VPmzxDmW5fcFKJoH0Ho9NXAQJPg==">; Fri, 06 Jun 2003
	10:24:56 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZZE6CB9; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:24:56 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:53:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
Message-ID: <20030606.085325.-255519201.1.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-8
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Over here Vanish is a toilet bowl cleaner.  8-)

Karen


On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:14:51 +0100 "Melanie Wilson"
<MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk> writes:
> Do you have vanish there ?
> 
> Mel

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 10:33:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EXEHP019572
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:33:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EVVUw004032
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EVUqe003283;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:31:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EVQqe003230
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:31:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-98-177.friaco.onetel.net.uk
	[213.78.98.177])3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id ADZ82026;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:31:24 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <00c601c32c38$4cca8f80$b1624ed5@your1p37d9kihs>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030606.085325.-255519201.1.Seamstrix@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:31:19 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Here it is a rather nifty stain remover :)

Do you want some ?

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 10:33:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EXRHP019577
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:33:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EVgUw004057
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:31:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EVgqe003426;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:31:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56EVdqe003387
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:31:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.247])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5110D5EE264
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri,  6 Jun 2003 16:31:34 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <003501c32c38$805ec0f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:32:47 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] shocking pink
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
I asked an expert (lady who has ben reenacting in Gustafs Skål for many
years)
She advised me not to use the shocking pink. She said that a lot of the
members would be making a lot of comments on that colour, and i think she is
right.
Well, what do i do then, should i overdye it, or should i perhaps boil it
and hope some of the colour would dissapear, then i could make a round gown
worn late in the century in stead.
If i dye it and boil it, all the chrispnes would dissapear and the thoaght
about making an english gown would not go with it,
Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole thing.
Buy some new fabric for a robe anglaise.
Many greetings

Bjarne.





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 11:46:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FkYHP023960
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:46:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FiaUw011587
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:44:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FiY0A018098;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:44:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f123.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FiS0A017987
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:44:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:44:23 -0700
Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:44:22 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226]
X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com]
From: "jessica stier" <jessicastier@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:44:22 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Law10-F123dC8mOLSSP0008074d@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2003 15:44:23.0775 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[80DA26F0:01C32C42]
Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT - Dress form
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks for your help!

I think the tip about getting a size smaller then myself so I can pad it up 
is a good idea.  It's not something I had factured in.

I love to sew and do so fairly often.  However, I have the hardest time (as 
does everyone else...) finding patterns that fit me perfectly, so I really 
want to use it to assist me in making clothes that fit better.  I also LOVE 
to drape.  My last quarter was a draping 1 and 2 class and really turned me 
onto the idea of making custom fitted items with out using my ruler (very 
much...).  It was just so much fun that I really want to be able to do it 
all the time!!!!!

Thanks again for your help.

:) jessica

>Message: 14
>Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:53:14 -0700
>From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
>To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
>Message-ID: <DF111B0C-97B0-11D7-97D0-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>I love both the Wolf and Superior dress forms.  they're so incredibly
>durable and sturdy.  and you can pad them up the same way you
>do with other forms...
>
>what are you planning on using it regularly for?  if it's for you, then
>I would
>get one a size smaller than you are, so you can pad it up for everyday,
>and have it be a bit smaller than you are for corseted looks.
>

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 11:50:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FogHP023977
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FmFUw011987
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FmF0A020255;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FmC0A020224
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:48:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19OJRq-0006U0-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:48:12 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] shocking pink-don't give up!!
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:48:10 -0700
Message-ID: <000a01c32c43$084e3540$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <003501c32c38$805ec0f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Bjarne!  Don't give up!  It will be so cool and you will be doubly proud
of it!  You can put the crispness back into it with sizing.  I think you
should over-dye it rather than boil it in the hopes that the color will
come out.  Try the vat dyeing.  See how easy it is here:
http://www.dharmatrading.com/info/vat_dye.html 
and look at your color selection:
http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3796-AA.shtml


Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 12:01:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56G1iHP028066
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:01:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56FxpUw013558
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:59:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Fxmq7029983;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:59:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com (web80409.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.64])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56Fxdq7029796
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:59:40 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606155934.24778.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:59:34 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <Law10-F353ednHM3SOl0007df35@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Jessica--

What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money
to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress
form and my overlock machine.

My own personal preference for dress forms is the
Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton
cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back)
adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had
one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on
it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my
own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally
use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself.

IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the
Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost
more.

Dawn
--- jessica stier <jessicastier@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and
> was hoping to get some 
> good advice...
> 
> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as
> an early graduation 
> present.  She wants me to pick it out and so I'm
> doing a little bit of 
> research and would love to hear the opinions of the
> listmembers on what your 
> favorite type of dress form is and why.
> 
> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form. 
> I currently have one of 
> those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally
> purchased in a size too 
> small for any real use.  I decided to keep it in
> case I had daughters or 
> early teen sized people I was making things for. 
> However, now I want to get 
> a real dress form that will earn it's keep.
> 
> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and
> dealer of forms such as I 
> need.  I will ask at school tonight, but until
> then... any tips or hints on 
> your favorite dress form and why?
> 
> Also, size-wize...  what size would you get if you
> plan on using it 
> regularly?  At school, we use the industry standard
> - 8.  But in my mind 
> that is just a bit too small.  I'm thinking about a
> 10.  Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos.
> You guys are the best!!!
> 
> :) jessica
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
>
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 12:07:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56G7HHP028071
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:07:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56G4jUw014224
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:04:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56G4iq7003923;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:04:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com (web80403.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.58])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56G4gq7003809
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:04:42 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606160437.49118.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:04:37 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:04:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EDFF1AD.823217C0@in-tch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com> wrote:

> I've got shocking pink wool and matching linen to do
> a "test" Gothic
> Fitted Gown, but I'm distinctly _not_ going for an
> authentic color
> combination in that case--I WANT it to be
> eye-popping.  (Teddy
> challenged me, a couple of years ago....<g>) I've
> got a purpley-fuchsia
> wool for an overgown, AND some tangerine-orange
> velvet for a sideless
> surcoat.

Yowza! Thank ghod for sunglasses. 8-D

I want to see picture when you get it finished. It
should be something! ;-)

Dawn
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 12:29:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GTDHP029420
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:29:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GQtUw016352
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:26:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GQrGc020133;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:26:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GQlGc020037
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:26:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [205.133.149.174] (pm5-174.eos.net [205.133.149.174])
	by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12189
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:26:46 -0400 (EDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:21:35 -0400
From: Gail & Scott Finke <gailscott@eos.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB0637CF.912F%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <200306060142.h561g0f4002025@net.indra.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


I thought shocking pink was a historical color, good for many periods. I
don't know where I heard that, though. Maybe it's one of those costume
legends.

I think Bjarne needs to take a tour of the USA! Get on the plane, take
medicine to make you fall asleep, and then you can take the coast to coast
tour staying free with all the list members!

Gail Finke

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 12:43:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GhxHP005127
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:43:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Gf7Uw018317
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:41:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Gf4Gc001695;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:41:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GexGd001632
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:41:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] 
	by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim)
	id 19OKGv-0004ux-00; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:40:57 -0400
Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for 
	id 19OKHE-00019I-00; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:41:16 -0400
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:41:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Katy Bishop <vintage@shore.net>
To: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
In-Reply-To: <20030606155934.24778.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0306061238370.28603-100000@shell3.shore.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
cc: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


I second the Uniquely You.  It's also great if you use it for multiple
people as you just put on a customised cover, and you can corset it into
a period shape.  I have 3: teeny, my size and extra large.  Another plus
is that it is very light to lug with you to shows/displays.

Katy

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote:

>Jessica--
>
>What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money
>to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress
>form and my overlock machine.
>
>My own personal preference for dress forms is the
>Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton
>cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back)
>adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had
>one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on
>it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my
>own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally
>use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself.
>
>IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the
>Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost
>more.
>
>Dawn
>--- jessica stier <jessicastier@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and
>> was hoping to get some
>> good advice...
>>
>> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as
>> an early graduation
>> present.  She wants me to pick it out and so I'm
>> doing a little bit of
>> research and would love to hear the opinions of the
>> listmembers on what your
>> favorite type of dress form is and why.
>>
>> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form.
>> I currently have one of
>> those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally
>> purchased in a size too
>> small for any real use.  I decided to keep it in
>> case I had daughters or
>> early teen sized people I was making things for.
>> However, now I want to get
>> a real dress form that will earn it's keep.
>>
>> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and
>> dealer of forms such as I
>> need.  I will ask at school tonight, but until
>> then... any tips or hints on
>> your favorite dress form and why?
>>
>> Also, size-wize...  what size would you get if you
>> plan on using it
>> regularly?  At school, we use the industry standard
>> - 8.  But in my mind
>> that is just a bit too small.  I'm thinking about a
>> 10.  Any thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos.
>> You guys are the best!!!
>>
>> :) jessica
>>
>>
>_________________________________________________________________
>> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>>
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
vintage@shore.net                www.VintageVictorian.com
     Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
      Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 12:52:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GqqHP005150
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:52:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Gp4Uw019319
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:51:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Gp3Gc008376;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:51:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56GowGd008313
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:50:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (localhost.wonderland.com
	[127.0.0.1])h56GqEAe081176
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@jabberwock.wonderland.com)
Received: (from alice@localhost)
	by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h56GqEwZ081174
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
Message-Id: <200306061652.h56GqEwZ081174@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0306061238370.28603-100000@shell3.shore.net> from
	"Katy Bishop" at Jun 06, 2003 12:41:16 PM
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely you forms...
about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they almost
uniformly hated them.  they tipped over, they never seemed
quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours getting the fit
right on the form.  


> 
> 
> I second the Uniquely You.  It's also great if you use it for multiple
> people as you just put on a customised cover, and you can corset it into
> a period shape.  I have 3: teeny, my size and extra large.  Another plus
> is that it is very light to lug with you to shows/displays.
> 
> Katy
> 
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote:
> 
> >Jessica--
> >
> >What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money
> >to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress
> >form and my overlock machine.
> >
> >My own personal preference for dress forms is the
> >Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton
> >cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back)
> >adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had
> >one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on
> >it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my
> >own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally
> >use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself.
> >
> >IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the
> >Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost
> >more.
> >
> >Dawn
> >--- jessica stier <jessicastier@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and
> >> was hoping to get some
> >> good advice...
> >>
> >> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as
> >> an early graduation
> >> present.  She wants me to pick it out and so I'm
> >> doing a little bit of
> >> research and would love to hear the opinions of the
> >> listmembers on what your
> >> favorite type of dress form is and why.
> >>
> >> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form.
> >> I currently have one of
> >> those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally
> >> purchased in a size too
> >> small for any real use.  I decided to keep it in
> >> case I had daughters or
> >> early teen sized people I was making things for.
> >> However, now I want to get
> >> a real dress form that will earn it's keep.
> >>
> >> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and
> >> dealer of forms such as I
> >> need.  I will ask at school tonight, but until
> >> then... any tips or hints on
> >> your favorite dress form and why?
> >>
> >> Also, size-wize...  what size would you get if you
> >> plan on using it
> >> regularly?  At school, we use the industry standard
> >> - 8.  But in my mind
> >> that is just a bit too small.  I'm thinking about a
> >> 10.  Any thoughts?
> >>
> >> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos.
> >> You guys are the best!!!
> >>
> >> :) jessica
> >>
> >>
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> >>
> >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >h-costume mailing list
> >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> 
> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
> vintage@shore.net                www.VintageVictorian.com
>      Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
>       Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 13:07:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56H7RHP005188
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:07:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56H5aUw020949
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:05:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56H5Y2g018557;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:05:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56H5V2g018526
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:05:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6])
	by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h56H5UGr025342
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:05:30 -0400
Message-Id: <200306061705.h56H5UGr025342@jefferson.patriot.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:02:07 -0000
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink
From: <aquazoo@patriot.net>
X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


     Didn't someone recently mention trying to dye silk, and it lost it's body?  
Maybe that was the 18thC list.  The silk taffeta became more crepe-like, and 
there was no convincing it otherwise.  Anyway, here's a silly idea - why not 
exchange it with someone for a color you like?  Everyone has a fabric stash, 
and maybe someone with a better 18thC color would really like the shocking pink 
silk for another project.  The cost of postage is probably less than the time 
to dye and attempt to re-size the fabric, and the outcome is more predictable.

     I think a Bjarne US tour is a great idea!  My own house is unsuitable for 
guests (I can't even sew, that's how under-construction it is) but I'll be 
happy to join you for dinner in the DC area.

     -Carol


Gail & Scott Finke <gailscott@eos.net> said:

> I thought shocking pink was a historical color, good for many periods. I
> don't know where I heard that, though. Maybe it's one of those costume
> legends.
> 
> I think Bjarne needs to take a tour of the USA! Get on the plane, take
> medicine to make you fall asleep, and then you can take the coast to coast
> tour staying free with all the list members!
> 
> Gail Finke

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 13:52:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HqXHP005381
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:52:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HojUw026209
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Hog2g018946;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web9404.mail.yahoo.com (web9404.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.136.129.110])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56Hob2g018869
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:37 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606175037.48268.qmail@web9404.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [209.78.208.191] by web9404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:50:37 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: KATHRYN WOLTERS <albrakat7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-costume meeting Netherlands??
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EE076B8.7030604@kabelfoon.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

That sounds like such a neat idea---especially since my husband still has  family over there:)
Albra(decloaking for a moment)

Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl> wrote:
Hi,

Since so many people are saying that they would like to meet I've got an 
idea.
What about meeting eachother somewere in the Netherlands next year or so?
(Less problems with water for Bjarne ;-) )
I would be glad to organise such an event.

Greetings,
Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 13:56:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HuKHP005387
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:56:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HsYUw026592
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:54:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HsU2g021353;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:54:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56HsI2g021149
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:54:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWgeajtiUI9Q1nvn80S0AcyPF7QjgdD2CFw==">; Fri, 06 Jun 2003
	10:54:02 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZZS48EP; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:54:02 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:48:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
Message-ID: <20030606.135009.-244815.2.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,6-8
From: catpurson@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

<<<If you have any extra pearls you may wish to see what "oxygen
cleaners"
do to them. That would be the biggest concern.>>>

        I washed my pearl covered partlet with Oxy Clean and it came out
just fine.  Don't know how silk would react, but it sure didn't hurt the
pearls.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 13:56:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HugHP005390
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:56:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Ht0Uw026661
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:55:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Hsw2g021741;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:54:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56HsI2g021147
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:54:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWgeajtiUI9Q1nvn80S0AcyPc0OFoyxtmEw==">; Fri, 06 Jun 2003
	10:54:02 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZZS48EM; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:54:02 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:47:13 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-costume meeting Netherlands??
Message-ID: <20030606.135009.-244815.1.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3
From: catpurson@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

        How I wish I could do that.  Finances and cats don't allow me to
go anywhere overnight.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 13:59:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HxFHP005397
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:59:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HvDUw026920
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:57:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56HvCiE023245;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:57:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from remt19.cluster1.charter.net (remt19.cluster1.charter.net
	[209.225.8.29])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Hv7iE023154
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:57:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [68.185.167.6] (HELO laptop)
	by remt19.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6)
	with SMTP id 53632994 for h-costume@indra.com;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:57:01 -0400
Message-ID: <004801c32c54$eb2129c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net>
From: <lotsofteapots@charter.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0306061238370.28603-100000@shell3.shore.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:56:12 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I have a Uniquely You, but need to re-fit it, as I've lost weight since the
purchase a few years ago. Where do I get extra covers?

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot
BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************

----- Original Message -----
From: "Katy Bishop" <vintage@shore.net>
To: "Dawn Jacobson" <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Cc: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form


>
> I second the Uniquely You.  It's also great if you use it for multiple
> people as you just put on a customised cover, and you can corset it into
> a period shape.  I have 3: teeny, my size and extra large.  Another plus
> is that it is very light to lug with you to shows/displays.
>
> Katy
>
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote:
>
> >Jessica--
> >
> >What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money
> >to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress
> >form and my overlock machine.
> >
> >My own personal preference for dress forms is the
> >Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton
> >cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back)
> >adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had
> >one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on
> >it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my
> >own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally
> >use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself.
> >
> >IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the
> >Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost
> >more.
> >
> >Dawn
> >--- jessica stier <jessicastier@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and
> >> was hoping to get some
> >> good advice...
> >>
> >> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as
> >> an early graduation
> >> present.  She wants me to pick it out and so I'm
> >> doing a little bit of
> >> research and would love to hear the opinions of the
> >> listmembers on what your
> >> favorite type of dress form is and why.
> >>
> >> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form.
> >> I currently have one of
> >> those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally
> >> purchased in a size too
> >> small for any real use.  I decided to keep it in
> >> case I had daughters or
> >> early teen sized people I was making things for.
> >> However, now I want to get
> >> a real dress form that will earn it's keep.
> >>
> >> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and
> >> dealer of forms such as I
> >> need.  I will ask at school tonight, but until
> >> then... any tips or hints on
> >> your favorite dress form and why?
> >>
> >> Also, size-wize...  what size would you get if you
> >> plan on using it
> >> regularly?  At school, we use the industry standard
> >> - 8.  But in my mind
> >> that is just a bit too small.  I'm thinking about a
> >> 10.  Any thoughts?
> >>
> >> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos.
> >> You guys are the best!!!
> >>
> >> :) jessica
> >>
> >>
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> >>
> >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >h-costume mailing list
> >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
> vintage@shore.net                www.VintageVictorian.com
>      Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
>       Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:18:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56II1HP005442
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:18:01 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IGGUw029042
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:16:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IGEiE006595;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:16:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41101.mail.yahoo.com (web41101.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56IG8iE006449
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:16:08 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606181603.76928.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [146.145.104.203] by web41101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:16:03 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stacey <anastasi5@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To: <200306061801.h56I12iG025904@net.indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [h-cost] Uniquely You
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I, too, would like to know if Uniquely You makes other
covers.  I think that's the model I got, used.  The
top half measurements are just like mine, but the
bottom half is too small.  Although I'm trying to make
my measurements to match the form, I need to pad it
out a bit with some firm batting.

<web search in progress>

...OK, I found that the Farthingales site sells them
new and recommends simply letting out the seams on the
outer cover.  Since mine is older, I'll have to see if
there's enough allowance for that.

Pictures at 11:00 ...

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:22:54 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IMsHP005449
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:22:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IL7Uw029549
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:21:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IL6iE010222;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:21:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IL5iE010208
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:21:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HG200M9COB25B@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:10:24 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question
In-reply-to: <20030606.081558.-255519201.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030606110817.00afa7c8@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 08:15 AM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue?


All I know is that it can really get the ground in dirt that accumulates on 
bras, that bleach didn't even touch. I let them soak for a half hour before 
washing and rinsing.

Do you have a spare piece of silk and a few pearls that you can get dirty 
and use as a tester?

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:33:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IWqHP005472
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:33:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IUqUw000686
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:30:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IUpiE016930;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:30:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com (web80404.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.59])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56IUkiE016828
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:30:46 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606183041.74561.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:30:41 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306061652.h56GqEwZ081174@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com> wrote:
> I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely
> you forms...
> about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they
> almost
> uniformly hated them.  they tipped over, they never
> seemed
> quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours
> getting the fit
> right on the form.  
> 

Interesting, as I know a great many costumers that own
them, and all seem to be very happy with their dress
forms.

Were the people in your draping class trying to fit
the cover themselves, or did they get help from
someone with fitting experience? I was fortunate
enough to have a very experienced fitter and costumer
help me with this process, as the cover must fit
absolutely skin tight to get an accurate dress form. 

The big problems that I've found with Wolf & Superior
dress forms is that unless you are an "off the rack"
size, you have to have it custom-made for you. They
are also VERY expensive ($425 from SewTrue; more from
other retailers). They can also be difficult to store
and transport, because they have a very heavy iron
stand (it's also the reason they don't tip over
easily).

I guess it's all in what someone's priorities are:
When I bought my Uniquely You, I costumed as a hobby
(still do), could not afford a custom-fit Wolf, and
didn't have the room in a 1-bedroom apartment for it.
These days, I'd rather spend the money on equipment
I'll use more often (like a gravity-feed iron), rather
than a dress form that gets only periodic use.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:33:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IWuHP005473
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:33:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56ISoUw000398
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:28:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56ISmiE015465;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:28:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law10-f39.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.39])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56ISeiE015293
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:28:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:28:35 -0700
Received: from 66.237.9.226 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:28:34 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [66.237.9.226]
X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com]
From: "jessica stier" <jessicastier@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:28:34 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Law10-F39cSCsVsrmDN000330b0@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2003 18:28:35.0400 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[70E0D480:01C32C59]
Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT Dress Forms
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Thanks for the opinions.  This is one of those purchases that I really want 
to make a good decision so that it will be durable and sturdy for many years 
of use.

I looked up the Uniquely You form online and found this website:

http://www.farthingales.on.ca/judy.htm

I think you can purchase extra covers from them too, I believe.  You could 
email them and ask.  She responds really quickly and gives great answers.

I emailed a list of questions to Linda at Farthingales and she responded 
really quickly with very honest answers.  I was impressed with her candor.

I am quite concerned about the sturdiness of the dress form and she 
mentioned that I might want to attach the feet to a piece of plywood to make 
it more sturdy.  She says that when she uses hers she has to put her foot on 
the base to help stabilize it.

I am also wondering about the fact that the shoulders are not collapsible.  
Has anyone who owns one had any problems with removing fitted bodices with 
out being able to collapse the shoulders?

Dawn, or anyone else who has a Uniquely You form...  Do you think the foam 
is withstanding the test of time?  Linda suggested that I make a jersey 
cover for it so that the foam didn't flake and crumble in the areas that are 
frequently pinned.  Would you also suggest doing this (if I choose this 
form...)?

Heather...  Interesting about the comments brought up by school.  I wonder 
why it would be difficult to use?  Any ideas on that?

Thanks again for all your opinions and help!  I really want to make an 
informed and smart decision.

:) jessica

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:40:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IePHP005489
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:40:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IcYUw001820
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:38:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IcXiE022931;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:38:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41813.mail.yahoo.com (web41813.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.147])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56IcRiE022782
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:38:28 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606183822.13506.qmail@web41813.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [132.185.132.12] by web41813.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:38:22 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:38:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jasper Hampton <jasperextraordinaire@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To: <200306051246.h55CkVPS023299@net.indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
cc: h-costume-owner@net.indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Inventory & Costume Sites
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Think before you post. Archive h-costume messages are made available online for the public. So we need to take care about what we post. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND this thread, including mine, should be DELETED or KEPT BACK from the public archives, to avoid recriminations and accusations of slander or sour grapes in the future.

If anyone thought Tudor Links copied from Drea's site they would have emailed them directly to enquire instead of posting comment here. If they did not want to ask, they should have kept their complaints to themselves.

I've already seen the Tudor Links site. Their 'Textiles and Costume page' already linked to a stack of sites Drea only added to hers recently, and still have some she doesn't. Out of the whole page there are only 2-3 links that might possibly have been copied directly. Sue says it's familiar. Well most pages of renaissance costume links have the same ones over and over these days and sometimes copied from others but no-one picks on them. And the 'Textiles and Costume page' is only one of several pages on this site.

They might not have taken anything from her site at all. I checked out their About This Site page http://www.tudorlinks.com/about.html. They ask people to email suggestions. One of Drea's fans could have sent the links in so it may not be Tudor Links fault anyway. They say they're not a commercial site. They're not selling advertising, saying they're experts or selling goods just truly sharing.

I think we should all pause before hitting that 'send' button next time.


h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to
h-costume@mail.indra.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
h-costume-request@mail.indra.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..."


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:47:49 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF3BF5.C1F5BFBC@in-tch.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Yeah, parts of it certainly "sound" familiar.  Lazy, at the very least,
I'd think....
--sue's two pence worth...

Drea Leed wrote:
> 
> Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" 
was
> nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title 
misCapitalizations
> and all.
> 
> :}
> 
> Drea
> 
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, elizabeth hervey wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders 
from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over 
£39, so this is a good time to buy!
> >
> > Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've 
already seen them.
> >
> > Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion
> >
> > www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/
> >
> > 1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes 
and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and 
there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim 
to make those men's drawers for!
> >
> > Tudor Links Costume page
> >
> > www.tudorlinks.com/textiles
> >
> > Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites 
with some I'd never seen before.
> >
> > Bess




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:45:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IixHP005495
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:44:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IhAUw002337
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:43:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Ih9iE026121;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:43:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80410.mail.yahoo.com (web80410.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56Ih5iE026026
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:43:06 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606184300.84147.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:43:00 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:43:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <004801c32c54$eb2129c0$06a7b944@mad.chartermi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote:
> I have a Uniquely You, but need to re-fit it, as
> I've lost weight since the
> purchase a few years ago. Where do I get extra
> covers?
> 
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot
> BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence
> 
> A room without books is like a body without a soul
> ---Cicero
> 
> lotsofteapots@charter.net
> **********************

Try SewTrue (http://www.sewtrue.com). I know they sell
the dress form, and they probably sell the covers
separately.

Not affiliated; simply a satisfied customer.

Dawn


=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:47:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Il9HP005506
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:47:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IjQUw002556
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:45:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IjPiE027535;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:45:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IjMiF027492
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:45:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (localhost.wonderland.com
	[127.0.0.1])h56IkbAe082591
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@jabberwock.wonderland.com)
Received: (from alice@localhost)
	by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h56IkbqR082590
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
Message-Id: <200306061846.h56IkbqR082590@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Dawn Jacobson" at Jun 06, 2003 11:30:41 AM
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

yes, they actually worked together in another class
with a professional fitter to fit their covers.

they just didn't like working with them as well as
Wolf and SUperior forms.  They're built very 
differently, and the sturdier forms are a lot easier
to use.  They're also about 3 to 4 times as expensive,
so they certainly aren't for most home sewers.


> 
> --- Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com> wrote:
> > I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely
> > you forms...
> > about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they
> > almost
> > uniformly hated them.  they tipped over, they never
> > seemed
> > quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours
> > getting the fit
> > right on the form.  
> > 
> 
> Interesting, as I know a great many costumers that own
> them, and all seem to be very happy with their dress
> forms.
> 
> Were the people in your draping class trying to fit
> the cover themselves, or did they get help from
> someone with fitting experience? I was fortunate
> enough to have a very experienced fitter and costumer
> help me with this process, as the cover must fit
> absolutely skin tight to get an accurate dress form. 
> 
> The big problems that I've found with Wolf & Superior
> dress forms is that unless you are an "off the rack"
> size, you have to have it custom-made for you. They
> are also VERY expensive ($425 from SewTrue; more from
> other retailers). They can also be difficult to store
> and transport, because they have a very heavy iron
> stand (it's also the reason they don't tip over
> easily).
> 
> I guess it's all in what someone's priorities are:
> When I bought my Uniquely You, I costumed as a hobby
> (still do), could not afford a custom-fit Wolf, and
> didn't have the room in a 1-bedroom apartment for it.
> These days, I'd rather spend the money on equipment
> I'll use more often (like a gravity-feed iron), rather
> than a dress form that gets only periodic use.
> 
> Dawn
> 
> =====
> Dawn Jacobson
> Vallejo, CA, USA
> 
> Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 14:52:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56IqnHP005522
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:52:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Ip3Uw003140
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:51:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Ip2iE001024;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:51:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com (web80409.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.64])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56IowiE000945
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:50:59 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606185053.57734.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:50:53 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT Dress Forms
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <Law10-F39cSCsVsrmDN000330b0@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- jessica stier <jessicastier@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the opinions.  This is one of those
> purchases that I really want 
> to make a good decision so that it will be durable
> and sturdy for many years 
> of use.
> 
> I looked up the Uniquely You form online and found
> this website:
> 
> http://www.farthingales.on.ca/judy.htm
> 
> I think you can purchase extra covers from them too,
> I believe.  You could 
> email them and ask.  She responds really quickly and
> gives great answers.
> 
> I emailed a list of questions to Linda at
> Farthingales and she responded 
> really quickly with very honest answers.  I was
> impressed with her candor.
> 
> I am quite concerned about the sturdiness of the
> dress form and she 
> mentioned that I might want to attach the feet to a
> piece of plywood to make 
> it more sturdy.  She says that when she uses hers
> she has to put her foot on 
> the base to help stabilize it.
> 
> I am also wondering about the fact that the
> shoulders are not collapsible.  
> Has anyone who owns one had any problems with
> removing fitted bodices with 
> out being able to collapse the shoulders?
> 
> Dawn, or anyone else who has a Uniquely You form... 
> Do you think the foam 
> is withstanding the test of time?  Linda suggested
> that I make a jersey 
> cover for it so that the foam didn't flake and
> crumble in the areas that are 
> frequently pinned.  Would you also suggest doing
> this (if I choose this 
> form...)?
> 
> Heather...  Interesting about the comments brought
> up by school.  I wonder 
> why it would be difficult to use?  Any ideas on
> that?
> 
> Thanks again for all your opinions and help!  I
> really want to make an 
> informed and smart decision.
> 
> :) jessica
> 

Jessica--

I bought mine in May 1984, have used it extensively
since, and it looks almost brand-new. I did cover the
exposed foam at the top (neck and arm holes) with
cotton knit (an old ripped-up T-shirt), simply because
I didn't like the look of the exposed foam, and
because I tend to use the top of the neck as a
pincushion when I'm draping something. Mine isn't
"tippy," but I would think that you could put a couple
of bags of beans or the little sand bags photographers
use to stabilze their tripods on the feet and make it
more secure.

I've never had any problem getting the shoulders out
of bodices; getting a very narrow waist over the top
can be a bit tricky, but over the years I've started
making the openings a tiny bit larger to accommodate;
it means it's usually easier to get a dress on or off
with already-done hair a bit easier too.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 15:08:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J8mHP013652
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:08:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J54Uw004637
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:05:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J52h3010624;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:05:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J4ph3010509
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:04:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffd.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.253])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4925C262A39
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri,  6 Jun 2003 21:04:49 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000d01c32c5e$b14ac080$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000a01c32c43$084e3540$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink-don't give up!!
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:06:10 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Saragrace.
Thanks for your advises, but
I dont have my own washingmachine, we use shared washingmachines in this
house with all the other flats, and it is not allowed to use dyes in them.
And secondly, when i have washed shirts in dupioni, they gets full of
crinkles because you wash, and you cant get those out again. It has happened
for me several times, even if it is handwasned. Those crinkle marks is
impossible to get rid of!
It could be fun to make some experiments, but i dont have enough time for
that.
I must get the embroidered dress finished in 14 days, because i go to
Stockholm 26. of july, and i want to make a costume for the lady i am going
to stay with. So i will be very buisy.
No i have desided to go hunting for a lovely taffeta somewhere in
Copenhagen, A cream coloured one i think.
But thanks for the advises

Bjarne






Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] shocking pink-don't give up!!


> Bjarne!  Don't give up!  It will be so cool and you will be doubly proud
> of it!  You can put the crispness back into it with sizing.  I think you
> should over-dye it rather than boil it in the hopes that the color will
> come out.  Try the vat dyeing.  See how easy it is here:
> http://www.dharmatrading.com/info/vat_dye.html
> and look at your color selection:
> http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3796-AA.shtml
>
>
> Sg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 15:09:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J9WHP013655
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:09:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J7hUw004923
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:07:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J7gh3012304;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:07:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56J7Vh3012197
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:07:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffd.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.253])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 25CF7262987
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri,  6 Jun 2003 21:07:31 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001301c32c5f$125d3740$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <BB0637CF.912F%gailscott@eos.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:08:53 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Chokles! Laughs :-)
That would be lovely, very tempting, but i think i want to skip.........
Very nice offers from you all.
I have a job here to take care of and i have not got the time right now, so
many schedules to catch.
It would have ben lovely though, and very interresting

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail & Scott Finke" <gailscott@eos.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:21 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink


>
> I thought shocking pink was a historical color, good for many periods. I
> don't know where I heard that, though. Maybe it's one of those costume
> legends.
>
> I think Bjarne needs to take a tour of the USA! Get on the plane, take
> medicine to make you fall asleep, and then you can take the coast to coast
> tour staying free with all the list members!
>
> Gail Finke
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 15:36:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56JakHP021825
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:36:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56JYwUw008139
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:34:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56JYuh3000715;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:34:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56JYqh3000661
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:34:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffd.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.253])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 56A4A2628EA
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri,  6 Jun 2003 21:34:51 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000d01c32c62$e53fd9d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:36:15 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] o.t. Launch of an 18th century China Vessel
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
I just looked at the tv; the launch of a true copy of a swedish cargo wessel
bound for China.
"Gøteborg" is the name like the original.
Everything on it was handmade, even the sails is going to be hand sewed. It
will cost 300 million swedish kr.
It was such a beautifull sight, wished you saw it!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 16:04:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56K3sHP021965
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:04:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56K1hUw011020
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:01:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56K1fTr019099;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:01:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.56])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56K1bTr019008
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:01:38 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606200132.2459.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:01:32 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306061846.h56IkbqR082590@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com> wrote:
> yes, they actually worked together in another class
> with a professional fitter to fit their covers.
> 
> they just didn't like working with them as well as
> Wolf and SUperior forms.  They're built very 
> differently, and the sturdier forms are a lot easier
> to use.  They're also about 3 to 4 times as
> expensive,
> so they certainly aren't for most home sewers.

Nor most smaller costume shops. The last time I
remember seeing more than just 1 in a shop was on a
tour of the costume shop at the Burbank Studios in the
mid-1980s. I also remember the designer/shop head at
LAVCC saying once that if you ever saw a Wolf or
Superior for sale at a yard sale or other, snap it up,
because they were bloody expensive if you had to buy
them new.

Oddly, my mother-in-law was a home sewer who had a
custom-made Wolf. I believe my husband's great-uncle,
who was a master tailor in the schmatte trade, got it
for her at a sizeable discount. My sister-in-law has
it now (what would I do with a size 4 Wolf anyway?).

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 16:19:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KJOHP022050
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:19:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KGuUw012593
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:16:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KGsTr028333;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:16:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KGpTr028270
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:16:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from comcast.netmtaout02.icomcast.net
	(iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
	h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:16:30 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:16:14 -0500
From: Allison Pace <allivox@comcast.net>
In-reply-to: <200306061602.h56G2eq8002405@net.indra.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-id: <B92E5FE4-985B-11D7-B847-000393D446D6@comcast.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: [h-cost] Re: uniquely you dress form
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Friday, June 6, 2003, Dawn wrote:

> My own personal preference for dress forms is the
> Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton
> cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back)
> adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had

Dawn - this sounds great!  But my problem with standard sizing is that 
I my waist is two sizes smaller than the bust/hips and I am 
short-waisted, so more often than not, the "standard" sizes of anything 
need major alterations.  Do you think the Uniquely You zip-up cover can 
be altered for extreme size differences on the same body?

My DTD isn't a good mold of me (a non-sewing friend helped me and I 
think she was too cautious with the topography.) And And if I could fit 
the cover to myself, then put it over the form, I wouldn't need any 
help!  Thanks!

Allison

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 16:23:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KNTHP022058
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:23:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KLiUw013170
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:21:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KLiTr001441;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:21:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KLcTs001380
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:21:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (localhost.wonderland.com
	[127.0.0.1])h56KMsAe083598
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:22:54 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@jabberwock.wonderland.com)
Received: (from alice@localhost)
	by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h56KMrl5083597
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:22:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
Message-Id: <200306062022.h56KMrl5083597@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Dawn Jacobson" at Jun 06, 2003 01:01:32 PM
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Really?  I see them in all the shops I've been in.
You can get them on eBay for about $200, sometimes.  
You can get them for around $500 new if you are an
educational organization,  also Dress-Rite sells
very similar quality forms for $550, I think.  I know
many individuals that own them for smaller shops.


> Nor most smaller costume shops. The last time I
> remember seeing more than just 1 in a shop was on a
> tour of the costume shop at the Burbank Studios in the
> mid-1980s. I also remember the designer/shop head at
> LAVCC saying once that if you ever saw a Wolf or
> Superior for sale at a yard sale or other, snap it up,
> because they were bloody expensive if you had to buy
> them new.
> 
> Oddly, my mother-in-law was a home sewer who had a
> custom-made Wolf. I believe my husband's great-uncle,
> who was a master tailor in the schmatte trade, got it
> for her at a sizeable discount. My sister-in-law has
> it now (what would I do with a size 4 Wolf anyway?).
> 
> Dawn
> 
> =====
> Dawn Jacobson
> Vallejo, CA, USA
> 
> Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 16:27:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KRvHP022077
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:27:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KQDUw013780
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:26:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KQBTr004623;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:26:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KQ9Tr004531
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:26:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from comcast.netmtaout05.icomcast.net
	(iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
	h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:25:19 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:25:03 -0500
From: Allison Pace <allivox@comcast.net>
In-reply-to: <200306061801.h56I12iF025904@net.indra.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-id: <F49C73C9-985C-11D7-B847-000393D446D6@comcast.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: [h-cost] Re: dress forms
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Friday, June 6, 2003, Heather wrote:

> I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely you forms...
> about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they almost
> uniformly hated them.  they tipped over, they never seemed
> quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours getting the fit
> right on the form.

So, Heather, is there another one you would recommend?  I am on what 
seems like a never-ending quest for a good dress form.  I have a mostly 
unusable Duct-tape-double of me, and I will probably make a paper tape 
double of my Elizabethan-corsetted self, but I could sure use a "real" 
me form for mundane wear.

TIA,

Allison

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 16:39:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KdLHP022114
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:39:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KbSUw015378
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:37:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KbRTr012725;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:37:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KbOTr012681
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:37:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-025scfairp0135.dialsprint.net ([63.183.120.135]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19ONxj-0000iq-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:37:23 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE10931.5080906@faucet.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:35:45 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
References: <200306061652.h56GqEwZ081174@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Heather Meadows wrote:
> I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely you forms...
> about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they almost
> uniformly hated them.  they tipped over, they never seemed
> quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours getting the fit
> right on the form.  

I also much prefer a Wolf or Superior form for draping.  I'm a 
professional costumer, professor, and shop manager, and when I had to 
order everything to set up a university shop last year, I ordered just 
two Wolf forms rather than a bunch of foam ones.  I concur with getting 
one a little small and padding it up--that's what I've always done. 
You'll especially need to pad the behind, as unlike most women these 
forms are flat in the back.

Though they are extremely expensive, I find them worth it.  The foam 
ones drive me bats unless I need a corsetted shape.  Of course, I don't 
own ANY dress forms of my own, since I can always use the ones at work, 
so my perspective is different.

Heather Meadows wrote:
 > also Dress-Rite sells
 > very similar quality forms for $550, I think.  I know
 > many individuals that own them for smaller shops.

I have used a Dress-Rite and not liked it.  They have a very tough 
covering that is difficult to pin into, and it frustrated me every time 
I tried to drape on it.  The one that I was using also had a strange 
shape--it was meant to be a male 44 with a bit of a belly, which was 
good, but it had the most terrible roundness in the shoulders across the 
back.  I always had to compensate for the "slouch" in the form.

Good luck finding what's right for you,
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 16:45:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KjOHP022127
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:45:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KhLUw016102
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:43:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56KhKTr016899;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:43:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41008.mail.yahoo.com (web41008.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.7])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56KhGTr016795
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:43:17 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030606204311.29435.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:43:11 PDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:43:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tania Gruning <tania_gr17@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <sedf763d.014@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The reason I think this is an unusual feature is, that it is my understanding that most sleeves were accessories and tied into the clothing. I do not think I have seen another portrait from the period with the sleeves sewn into the doublet.
This feature might be a regional thing to the danish court or it might have something to do with Christian being a child.
The fabric is gorgous, but I am now, after further study of the picture, in doubt as wether it is a brocade or gold embroidered velvet. The amount of work if it was indeed embroidered velvet would have been outragous, but the decorations on the skirt of the doublet is in the same theme as the main doublet, but is not the same.
Tania

Kate M Bunting <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
Tania wrote:

>>>I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet.

Do you mean as opposed to tied on? I've noticed that 16th/17th century costumes in films sometimes have the sleeves only partially attached, but not seen any written references to them not being sewn on. I know some types of garment had elaborate detachable sleeves, but for a standard doublet with the sleeves matching the body, why would they not be stitched in place?



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 17:18:54 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56LIrHP022218
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:18:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56LGwUw019885
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:16:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56LGrR4012721;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:16:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56LGpR4012683
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:16:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-014scfairp0470.dialsprint.net ([63.183.137.216]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19OOZu-0003XW-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:16:51 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE11271.4090204@faucet.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 17:15:13 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV
References: <20030606204311.29435.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Tania Gruning wrote:
> The reason I think this is an unusual feature is, that it 
is my understanding that most sleeves were accessories and
tied into the clothing. I do not think I have seen another
portrait from the period with the sleeves sewn into the doublet.

Well, in most portraits it's hard to tell whether the sleeves are sewn 
in or laced in, but IIRC in Arnold's Patterns of Fashion most of the 
doublet sleeves are sewn in.  I'd check, but it's at work and I'm not.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 18:42:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56MgvHP022442
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:42:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Mf1Uw001041
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:41:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56MewZg014901;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:40:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56MeuZg014796
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:40:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.12d.2b31333d (4552)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:40:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <12d.2b31333d.2c12726e@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:40:46 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/6/2003 10:40:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:

> If i dye it and boil it, all the chrispnes would dissapear and the thoaght
> about making an english gown would not go with it,
> Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole thing.
> 

What....you didn't like my embroidery idea?  ;-)
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 18:50:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Mo9HP022467
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:50:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Ml3Uw001504
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:47:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56Ml2Zg018066;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:47:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h56MkwZg018015
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:46:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 13395 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2003 23:25:55 -0000
Received: from 66-44-48-13.s2045.apx1.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO
	oldwaylane.net) (66.44.48.13)
	by shada.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2003 23:25:55 -0000
Message-ID: <3EE10F3A.4000303@oldwaylane.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:01:30 -0400
From: Judy Mitchell <judymitch@oldwaylane.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] uniquely you dress form
References: <B92E5FE4-985B-11D7-B847-000393D446D6@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <B92E5FE4-985B-11D7-B847-000393D446D6@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Allison Pace wrote:

> Dawn - this sounds great!  But my problem with standard sizing is that I 
> my waist is two sizes smaller than the bust/hips and I am short-waisted, 
> so more often than not, the "standard" sizes of anything need major 
> alterations.  Do you think the Uniquely You zip-up cover can be altered 
> for extreme size differences on the same body?

	Have you considered a Fabulous Fit 
<http://www.fabulousfit.com/> ? Joann's online also sells 
them (which is nice if you combine it with a 40% off 
coupon). They are a hard foam base model that you can pin 
into and then with their 2 slip-on jerseys you add in extra 
pads and padding to get your own exact shape. While you are 
"supposed" to add the shaped pads beneath both jersey 
covers, I couldn't do that so I just slipped them in between 
which was much easier.
	Yes, I did have to wrestle with it for most of a day 
checking and re-checking my meausurements and adjusting the 
padding to match everywhere. But it is specifically designed 
so that you can adapt for short or long waisted, or one 
shoulder higher, or round backed, or any number of 
anomalies. I figured that one day of semi-frustrated 
wrestling by myself was worth having a pinnable form that is 
as close to me as I'm going to get. And of course since it's 
all tailored to match by stuffing, you can always add or 
subtract as you change or need to change for corseting. Once 
it's set up, it is squishable and the they told me when I 
asked that many museum have bought them for permanent 
clohting displays that use corseting.
	It's a thought.

	-Judy Mitchell

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 18:56:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56MubHP022482
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:56:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56MsdUw003509
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:54:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56MscZg022841;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:54:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h56MsaZg022781
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:54:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1e6.a669052 (4552)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:54:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <1e6.a669052.2c1275a2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:54:26 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h56MubHP022482
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/6/2003 6:46:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
AlbertCat@aol.com writes:

> Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole 
> thing.
> 

Have you ever made an 1860s ball gown? You ought to do one. It actually is 
easier [IMHO] than an 18th century gown. You could make the corset and 
crinoline. Then a wonderful bright pink gown with a front and back pointed bodice and 
the décolletage covered in white orange blossoms. Or cover the bodice and part 
of the skirt with an open white lace.

Albert "can't stop designing" Cat
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 20:34:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570Y2HP022646
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:34:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570VtUw011011
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:31:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570VrFC011566;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:31:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570VoFD011549
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:31:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] 
	by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim)
	id 19ORfd-0007fQ-00; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 20:34:57 -0400
Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for
	h-costume@indra.com
	id 19ORcu-0006Tj-00; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 20:32:08 -0400
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:32:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Katy Bishop <vintage@shore.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
In-Reply-To: <20030606183041.74561.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0306062030420.28603-100000@shell3.shore.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


I do find with the "uniquely you" I need to add a fitted neck piece and
short sleeves to accomodate my narrow shoulders--but I love the
flexibility of being able to corset it for many eras.

Katy

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote:

>--- Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com> wrote:
>> I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely
>> you forms...
>> about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they
>> almost
>> uniformly hated them.  they tipped over, they never
>> seemed
>> quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours
>> getting the fit
>> right on the form.
>>
>
>Interesting, as I know a great many costumers that own
>them, and all seem to be very happy with their dress
>forms.
>
>Were the people in your draping class trying to fit
>the cover themselves, or did they get help from
>someone with fitting experience? I was fortunate
>enough to have a very experienced fitter and costumer
>help me with this process, as the cover must fit
>absolutely skin tight to get an accurate dress form.
>
>The big problems that I've found with Wolf & Superior
>dress forms is that unless you are an "off the rack"
>size, you have to have it custom-made for you. They
>are also VERY expensive ($425 from SewTrue; more from
>other retailers). They can also be difficult to store
>and transport, because they have a very heavy iron
>stand (it's also the reason they don't tip over
>easily).
>
>I guess it's all in what someone's priorities are:
>When I bought my Uniquely You, I costumed as a hobby
>(still do), could not afford a custom-fit Wolf, and
>didn't have the room in a 1-bedroom apartment for it.
>These days, I'd rather spend the money on equipment
>I'll use more often (like a gravity-feed iron), rather
>than a dress form that gets only periodic use.
>
>Dawn
>
>=====
>Dawn Jacobson
>Vallejo, CA, USA
>
>Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
vintage@shore.net                www.VintageVictorian.com
     Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
      Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 20:58:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570wbHP022685
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:58:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570t2VG012553
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:56:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570pDFC019394;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:51:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h570pAFC019358
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:51:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [205.133.149.105] (pm4-105.eos.net [205.133.149.105])
	by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15979
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:51:08 -0400 (EDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 20:45:55 -0400
From: Gail & Scott Finke <gailscott@eos.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB06AE03.917C%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <200306062021.h56KLpTs001499@net.indra.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Re: visit bjarne
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO



Well, Bjarne, if you won't come visit us we'll have to come visit you. Where
will you put us all?

Gail Finke


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 21:03:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5713pHP022697
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:03:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57124Uw012967
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:02:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5712202023876;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:02:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5711x03023824
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:02:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] 
	by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim)
	id 19OS5m-0004Ts-00; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:01:58 -0400
Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for
	h-costume@indra.com
	id 19OS66-0000iM-00; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:02:18 -0400
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:02:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Katy Bishop <vintage@shore.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT Dress Forms
In-Reply-To: <20030606185053.57734.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0306062033200.28603-100000@shell3.shore.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


I've had 2 of my Uniquely Yous for about 15-17 years, they are holding
up very well.  The foam on one is exposed at neck and arm, it has turned
yellow but is not crumbling.  Just about any place that sells the forms
sells additional covers (you could also make your own fairly easily).
The lowest price I've found is in the range of $130.  Do a google search
on the web and many site come up selling it.

Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian
vintage@shore.net                www.VintageVictorian.com
     Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era.
      Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 21:07:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5717nHP022711
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:07:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5715uUw013244
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:05:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5715s02025599;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:05:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5715q02025529
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:05:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m104.in-tch.com [216.166.191.104])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h570lDj28700
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:47:13 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE13ACD.AA223D40@in-tch.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:07:25 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
References: <20030606160437.49118.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It's intended for dual use--to work through the process of building a
fitted gown based on what I learned from Robin's workshop, and to serve
as a "hangover revenge" outfit for SCA camping events.
I don't drink, you see, or party late into the evening, and find myself
resenting the noise from those who do.  So, I can where this when I'm up
bright and early, and stun the hung-over with the color combination.
If I actually get it done it time AND get over my extreme camera phobia,
I'll think of submitting to Penny's annual Halloween Costume Ball....
--sue

Dawn Jacobson wrote:
> 
> --- Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com> wrote:
> 
> > I've got shocking pink wool and matching linen to do
> > a "test" Gothic
> > Fitted Gown, but I'm distinctly _not_ going for an
> > authentic color
> > combination in that case--I WANT it to be
> > eye-popping.  (Teddy
> > challenged me, a couple of years ago....<g>) I've
> > got a purpley-fuchsia
> > wool for an overgown, AND some tangerine-orange
> > velvet for a sideless
> > surcoat.
> 
> Yowza! Thank ghod for sunglasses. 8-D
> 
> I want to see picture when you get it finished. It
> should be something! ;-)
> 
> Dawn
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun  6 22:42:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h572gtHP023606
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:42:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h572f1Uw020962
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:41:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h572f01k008950;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:41:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h572es1l008918
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:40:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-172-61-66.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[64.172.61.66])h572g9Ae087640
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:50:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <003501c32c38$805ec0f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Message-Id: <9C58AA94-9836-11D7-97D0-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h572es1l008918
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I've heard you can get the crispness back by washing
with vinegar after dying, and then line-drying.


On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 07:32 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> Hi.
> I asked an expert (lady who has ben reenacting in Gustafs Skål for many
> years)
> She advised me not to use the shocking pink. She said that a lot of the
> members would be making a lot of comments on that colour, and i think 
> she is
> right.
> Well, what do i do then, should i overdye it, or should i perhaps boil 
> it
> and hope some of the colour would dissapear, then i could make a round 
> gown
> worn late in the century in stead.
> If i dye it and boil it, all the chrispnes would dissapear and the 
> thoaght
> about making an english gown would not go with it,
> Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole 
> thing.
> Buy some new fabric for a robe anglaise.
> Many greetings
>
> Bjarne.
>
>
>
>
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 00:24:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574OeHP026534
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:24:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574MiUw028098
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:22:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574MeRe021407;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:22:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574MbRe021346
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:22:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a218.in-tch.com [66.62.107.18])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5743wj06096
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:03:58 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE168C0.C2B9CD38@in-tch.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:23:28 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "h-costume@indra.com" <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread....
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hey, gang.
Wasn't someone, several months back (like, last winter?) talking about
making a costume using pieces cut from compact discs?
I don't have the posts that talked about it, but I have a whole stack of
discs to send on to whoever it was, if anyone remembers, or if the
originator is still on the list!
--sue
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 00:44:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574iRHP027280
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:44:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574gfUw000193
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:42:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574geRe001334;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:42:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574gbRe001239
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:42:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a218.in-tch.com [66.62.107.18])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h574Nwj12829
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:23:58 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE16D99.92DBA7E6@in-tch.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:44:09 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread....
References: <200306070438.h574cDw17060@gw.retro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oh, hi! That was quick! <g>
I ran across them the other day when cleaning out the back bedroom.
Send me your snail mail addy off-list, and I'll try to get them mailed
in the next week or two....
--sue, who *really* needs to get back to her emergency costuming for
next weekend....<<scurry, scurry>>

Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> 
> > Wasn't someone, several months back (like, last winter?) talking about
> > making a costume using pieces cut from compact discs?
> > I don't have the posts that talked about it, but I have a whole stack of
> > discs to send on to whoever it was, if anyone remembers, or if the
> > originator is still on the list!
> 
> I'm still here.  Didn't get the costume finished because of various
> health problems, so yeah, I could still use a stack of CDs.
> 
> Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com           KoX 1995, SP4
> Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
> Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
> "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 00:45:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574jFHP027300
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:45:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574cQUw029677
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:38:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574cPRe029179;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:38:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574cMRe029146
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:38:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (from lee@localhost)
	by gw.retro.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h574cDw17060
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Thompson-Herbert <lee@retro.com>
Message-Id: <200306070438.h574cDw17060@gw.retro.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread....
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Wasn't someone, several months back (like, last winter?) talking about
> making a costume using pieces cut from compact discs?
> I don't have the posts that talked about it, but I have a whole stack of
> discs to send on to whoever it was, if anyone remembers, or if the
> originator is still on the list!

I'm still here.  Didn't get the costume finished because of various
health problems, so yeah, I could still use a stack of CDs.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 00:59:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574xeHP027788
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:59:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574vpUw001309
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:57:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574vnLD007333;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:57:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h574vkLD007314
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:57:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A10F12650030; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:58:55 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0CADE00148; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:57:46 -0500
Message-ID: <004e01c32cb1$a004ab80$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <200306070438.h574cDw17060@gw.retro.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread....
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:59:49 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Lee,

I am sorry you have been having health problems.  It is good to see you
back.

Maybe we need to start an h-costume re-hab center.   I think we have some
nurses on the list!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 01:11:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h575BaHP028178
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:11:36 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5759nUw002091
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:09:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5759mLD011765;
	Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:09:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-2.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.2]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5759jLD011744
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:09:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail2.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A3DD12860030; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 00:10:53 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3991F1100F0; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 00:09:45 -0500
Message-ID: <005301c32cb3$4c659640$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <200306070438.h574cDw17060@gw.retro.com>
	<3EE16D99.92DBA7E6@in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread....
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:11:45 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Sue,

Mentioning cleaning... my whole costume book case fell all over my office
this afternoon.  Books went everywhere and mixed in with all my stacks of
books on the floor.  What a nightmare.  My office looked like an earthquake
hit it.  Somehow, I ended up with more books than I had room for on my
shelves.  Now I have more stacks on the floor.

Doesn't anyone want to adopt one of my sons to put through college??????
Sue, I think you need a college age kid.  He is getting a degree in
computers... so he would be a big help.  All I need is one more son to move
out and I can takeover the big bedroom with all the bookshelves as my
office.  Otherwise I have to wait until Christmas when he graduates, or
until Sept. 2004 when our 4th son goes off to college.

Come on Sue, I think you can help a friend in need.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 03:46:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h577kQHP025575
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 03:46:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h577iTUw011104
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:44:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h577iLtQ006967;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:44:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h577iItQ006903
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:44:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0162.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.80.163])
	by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51B4BEA73
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat,  7 Jun 2003 09:44:12 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE19870.6080404@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 09:46:56 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
References: <1e6.a669052.2c1275a2@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Jummie dat sounds nice.
I don't like pink but for such a dress, and with wite lace...
It will defenatly break the glace of your teeth just by looking at it :-) .

Greetings,
        Deredere

>Have you ever made an 1860s ball gown? You ought to do one. It actually is 
>easier [IMHO] than an 18th century gown. You could make the corset and 
>crinoline. Then a wonderful bright pink gown with a front and back pointed bodice and 
>the décolletage covered in white orange blossoms. Or cover the bodice and part 
>of the skirt with an open white lace.
>
>Albert "can't stop designing" Cat
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 10:41:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57EfZHP008479
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:41:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57EdFUw007790
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 08:39:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Ed6bL006912;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 08:39:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Ed1bL006842
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 08:39:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.240])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D734262955
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat,  7 Jun 2003 16:38:55 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <005a01c32d02$c743ce00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <1e6.a669052.2c1275a2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:40:44 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi again.
You gave me a good idea here! Thanks for that.
I have ben wondering a lot what to do with the fabric, i dont even want a
pink shirt, i would never wear it, and Leif neither.
This 1860 dress, i will try to make next winter and then i want to sell it
on ebay!
I could embroider it two Laughs Loud! with grey chenille thread.

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertCat@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink


In a message dated 6/6/2003 6:46:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
AlbertCat@aol.com writes:

> Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole
> thing.
>

Have you ever made an 1860s ball gown? You ought to do one. It actually is
easier [IMHO] than an 18th century gown. You could make the corset and
crinoline. Then a wonderful bright pink gown with a front and back pointed
bodice and
the décolletage covered in white orange blossoms. Or cover the bodice and
part
of the skirt with an open white lace.

Albert "can't stop designing" Cat
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 14:03:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57I3fHP008914
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:03:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Hp4Uw022001
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:51:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Hp2Sd026394;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:51:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Hp0Sd026365
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:51:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ppp052207.usmo.com ([209.248.52.207] helo=Dan)
	by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19OhqE-00003o-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:50:59 -0400
Message-ID: <005c01c32d1d$763e4600$cf34f8d1@Dan>
From: "Genie" <kerowyn@mindspring.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:51:43 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] New Costume Interest/ jeans vs. denim slacks
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h57I3fHP008914
Status: RO

Catching up on old digests.  You said>
> At my school, we wore uniform until the last two years, when we were
> expected to wear reasonably smart, "office-type" clothing.  They had
> this rule, you could wear "smart denim trousers" but not "jeans".  Never
> did figure out the difference!
>
When I was pregnant in 1977 I had a pair of denim slacks that I wore to the office at least once a week.  Every so often my boss or someone would question me one this because they were "denim".  By -no- stretch of the imagination were they jeans (no rivets, no flat fell seams etc.)  But they were blue denim and in some peoples eyes that made them jeans which wre a no-no at that time in the office world.  I think I got away with it because no one wants to upset a pregnant lady.

Genie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 14:14:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57IEfHP008986
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:14:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57I53Uw023599
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:05:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57I52hw003351;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:05:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57I4uhx003285
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:04:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h57I4xkJ003759
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:04:59 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h57I4xsr003757
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:04:59 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:04:58 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <1e6.a669052.2c1275a2@aol.com>
	<005a01c32d02$c743ce00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
In-Reply-To: <005a01c32d02$c743ce00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306071404.58993.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h57I4uhx003285
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Saturday 07 June 2003 10:40 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> Hi again.
> You gave me a good idea here! Thanks for that.
> I have ben wondering a lot what to do with the fabric, i dont even want a
> pink shirt, i would never wear it, and Leif neither.
> This 1860 dress, i will try to make next winter and then i want to sell it
> on ebay!
> I could embroider it two Laughs Loud! with grey chenille thread.


You could...and it might well be period for the 1860s-- more bizarre color 
combinations were!



-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 14:44:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57IimHP009171
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:44:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57GVhUw016877
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:31:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57GVgeY023365;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:31:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80408.mail.yahoo.com (web80408.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.63])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h57GVdeY023303
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:31:39 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030607163133.92682.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sat, 07 Jun 2003 09:31:33 PDT
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 09:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: uniquely you dress form
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <B92E5FE4-985B-11D7-B847-000393D446D6@comcast.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Allison Pace <allivox@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Friday, June 6, 2003, Dawn wrote:
> 
> > My own personal preference for dress forms is the
> > Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton
> > cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back)
> > adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've
> had
> 
> Dawn - this sounds great!  But my problem with
> standard sizing is that 
> I my waist is two sizes smaller than the bust/hips
> and I am 
> short-waisted, so more often than not, the
> "standard" sizes of anything 
> need major alterations.  Do you think the Uniquely
> You zip-up cover can 
> be altered for extreme size differences on the same
> body?
> 
> My DTD isn't a good mold of me (a non-sewing friend
> helped me and I 
> think she was too cautious with the topography.) And
> And if I could fit 
> the cover to myself, then put it over the form, I
> wouldn't need any 
> help!  Thanks!
> 
> Allison

Allison--

I know absolutely, for a fact, that you can alter a
Uniquely You to fit an hourglass figure (you lucky
girl!). When I was about to buy my Uniquely You, I
asked Victoria Ridenour how she dealt with that
problem (she was the costumer who recommended that I
get a Uniquely You). She said she simply took the
cover off a standard size dress form that fit her bust
and hips, and duct-taped down the foam until it was
approximately her measurements. She then fit the cover
to herself, zipped it on, and voila! perfect fit.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 14:48:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Im0HP009181
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:48:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57H1dUw018833
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:01:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57H1cSd005212;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:01:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com (web80404.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.59])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h57H1ZSd005157
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:01:36 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030607170130.60091.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sat, 07 Jun 2003 10:01:30 PDT
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306062022.h56KMrl5083597@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com> wrote:
> Really?  I see them in all the shops I've been in.
> You can get them on eBay for about $200, sometimes. 
> 
> You can get them for around $500 new if you are an
> educational organization,  also Dress-Rite sells
> very similar quality forms for $550, I think.  I
> know
> many individuals that own them for smaller shops.

Then you and I probably frequent different shops.

As I said before, it's a matter of priorities and how
one works. It's a help to have a dress form to do
draping on, especially for myself, or if I'm working
with lots of hanging yardage. However, I was
originally taught to build toiles "on the flat" from
the measurements the fitter gave me; I'm also fast
enough to do a drape on the live person, and can work
from there. It's simply the way I was taught.

My own priorities (YMMV) are to spend money on
equipment that will get used every day. For the price
of a new Wolf or Superior dress form, I can go out and
buy a new Uniquely You dress form AND a new Sussman
gravity-feed iron with what's left, and still have
enough (even after tax and shipping) to buy about $100
worth of notions, fabrics, or other tools I may need.
If I already have those things, it's $500 that stays
in my pocket. If I have a shop, that $500 goes to help
pay overhead costs of a business: electricity, water,
rent, taxes, advertising, etc. While a Wolf or
Superior dress form might be a nice thing to have,
unless I need a $500 business expense to write off, to
me it's simply a waste of money when I can do the same
tasks with a $130 Uniquely You.

Dawn


=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 16:00:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57K0iHP009339
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:00:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57JkWUw001958
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:46:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57JkOs3006553;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:46:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57JkLs3006508
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 13:46:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com(4004)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:46:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <123.22805cd7.2c139b05@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:46:13 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/7/2003 2:08:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cathy@thyrsus.com writes:

> You could...and it might well be period for the 1860s-- more bizarre color 
> combinations were!
> 

Pink and grey....depending on the shade of course....can be quite lovely and 
not bizarre. We know the pink shade, but is the grey Dove grey? Charcoal grey? 
Slate grey? Oyster?....?.....?....?
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 16:44:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57KiaHP009432
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:44:36 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57KO4Uw004850
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:24:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57KO39A024500;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:24:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57KO09A024429
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:24:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from comcast.netmtaout05.icomcast.net
	(iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
	h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:21:41 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:21:23 -0500
From: Allison Pace <allivox@comcast.net>
In-reply-to: <200306071800.h57I0nhx001179@net.indra.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-id: <9BAC5B06-9925-11D7-8276-000393D446D6@comcast.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: [h-cost] Re:Uniquely You dress form
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Saturday, June 7, 2003, Dawn wrote:

> I know absolutely, for a fact, that you can alter a
> Uniquely You to fit an hourglass figure (you lucky
> girl!). When I was about to buy my Uniquely You, I
> asked Victoria Ridenour how she dealt with that
> problem (she was the costumer who recommended that I
> get a Uniquely You). She said she simply took the
> cover off a standard size dress form that fit her bust
> and hips, and duct-taped down the foam until it was
> approximately her measurements. She then fit the cover
> to herself, zipped it on, and voila! perfect fit.
>
> Dawn

Woo hoo!  Now I just have to wait til I get a 40% off coupon from 
JoAnn's.  I had just about given up on having a "me" shape to work on, 
but this sounds like just what I need.  And it's different than any of 
the others I've tried.  Thanks so much for your feedback, Dawn.

Allison

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 17:19:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57LJPHP009564
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 17:19:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57KumUw007706
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:56:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Kukau008766;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:56:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.109])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57Kuiau008725
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:56:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from comcast.netmtaout05.icomcast.net
	(iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
	h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:55:12 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:54:54 -0500
From: Allison Pace <allivox@comcast.net>
In-reply-to: <200306071800.h57I0nhx001179@net.indra.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-id: <4A90235A-992A-11D7-8276-000393D446D6@comcast.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 314
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Well, my faulty memory is at it again - I thought I remembered someone 
posting that Uniquely You forms were available at JoAnn's.  But they 
aren't listed on JoAnn's web site, and my local store says they don't 
carry them.  So I googled and found allbrands.com sells them for 
$129.99 and FREE shipping!  Mine is on it's way.  If I can't make this 
one work, then Dawn, I'm coming to your house for help...;-)

Allison

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 19:43:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57NhlHP009942
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:43:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57NJqUw016059
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 17:19:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57NJkLA003384;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 17:19:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41114.mail.yahoo.com (web41114.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.30])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h57NJhLA003339
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 17:19:43 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030607231938.40432.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [171.75.73.160] by web41114.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:19:38 PDT
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stacey <anastasi5@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To: <200306070510.h5759vLF011807@net.indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [h-cost] OT-Dress Forms
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I took off the cover on my Uniquely you, and, lo and
behold, there were 1" seam allowances!  I just had to
let out 1/4" on six seamlines and it should work out
perfectly.  I just saved myself from having to buy a
new cover.  

To the other Uniquely You users out there:  how small
can you squish the foam?  I'm fitting this for my 30"
waist, but I have a client who has measurements of
34/24/34.  Can I make her a cover and just zip it over
the foam for her custom designs?



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 20:17:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h580HJHP010036
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:17:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57NtZUw019244
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 17:55:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57NtYPX019719;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 17:55:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57NtUPX019685
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 17:55:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h57NtT4r027010
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:55:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.196.203] (tnt-1-11.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.203])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h57NtOuG027003
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:55:27 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100300bb07d840d13a@[136.152.197.50]>
In-Reply-To: <005301c32cb3$4c659640$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
References: <200306070438.h574cDw17060@gw.retro.com>
 <3EE16D99.92DBA7E6@in-tch.com>
 <005301c32cb3$4c659640$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:00:03 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread....
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 1:11 AM -0400 6/7/03, Penny Ladnier wrote:
>Sue,
>
>Mentioning cleaning... my whole costume book case fell all over my office
>this afternoon.  Books went everywhere and mixed in with all my stacks of
>books on the floor.  What a nightmare.  My office looked like an earthquake
>hit it.  Somehow, I ended up with more books than I had room for on my
>shelves.  Now I have more stacks on the floor.

<grin> Those of us whom actual earthquakes are likely to hit tend to 
have our bookcases bolted to the wall studs so they don't fall over. 
But it does describe the effect, nicely.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 22:02:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58229HP010267
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:02:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h581e1VW028813
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:41:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h581Xs0D005494;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:33:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f68.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.68])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h581Xp0D005460
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:33:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:33:46 -0700
Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Sun, 08 Jun 2003 01:33:46 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121]
X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com]
From: "Jennifer Sena" <distantdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 18:33:46 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <BAY7-F68Pim9OciPXkm000083f8@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2003 01:33:46.0472 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[01133E80:01C32D5E]
cc: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] preference question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces.  
Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to the 
waist, or two long laces tied at the waist?  You can email me off list if 
you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com .  I just want to know what people 
like or dislike about one methos or another.


Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 22:03:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5823WHP010272
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:03:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h581h7Uw028957
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:43:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h581h60D008482;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:43:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.25])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h581h40D008473
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:43:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-013caburbp0128.dialsprint.net ([63.191.0.128]
	helo=[0019381808])
	by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19OpD5-0002x1-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 21:43:03 -0400
From: "Katherine" <kcg@sprynet.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:44:25 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3EE23289.15280.17CA402@localhost>
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was wondering if 
anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area.

Thanks,


Katherine

"I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they 
can make fun of the public without its revolting."

Marie, Queen of Roumania

My Dress Site
http://www.koshka-the-cat.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun  7 23:04:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5834mHP010384
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:04:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h582fRUw002286
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:41:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h582fN9O028756;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:41:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h582fL9O028711
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:41:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.39.3997802d (16930)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:41:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <39.3997802d.2c13fc46@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:41:10 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC?
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/7/2003 9:51:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, kcg@sprynet.com 
writes:


> I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was 
> wondering if 
> anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area.
> 

Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want 
upholstery fabric.

Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 south 
near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of stuff. Some 
silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some good laces and 
some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. Some nice wools too. 
The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 00:08:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5848GHP010493
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 00:08:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5846KUw008703
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:06:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5846InZ004167;
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:06:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5846GnZ004133
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:06:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by
	scanmail1.cableone.net  with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68);
	Sat, 7 Jun 2003 21:06:54 -0700
Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net
  (SMTPD32-7.04) id A65A28C601C6; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 21:06:53 -0700
Received: from kimathlon (24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]) by
	mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42);
	Sat, 07 Jun 2003 21:06:53 -0600
From: "Kim Baird" <kbaird@cableone.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] preference question
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:06:16 -0500
Message-ID: <001b01c32d73$514cc320$0201a8c0@kimathlon>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
In-Reply-To: <BAY7-F68Pim9OciPXkm000083f8@hotmail.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Importance: Normal
X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon
X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net
X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I've never really noticed the difference, and I've done it both way.

Kim

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Jennifer Sena
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 8:34 PM
To: 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com
Cc: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] preference question


I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces.

Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to
the 
waist, or two long laces tied at the waist?  You can email me off list
if 
you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com .  I just want to know what
people 
like or dislike about one methos or another.


Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 04:53:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h588r1HP018994
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 04:53:01 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h588p2Uw029133
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 02:51:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h588osJk024102;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 02:50:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h588oqJk024085
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 02:50:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-64-175-32-231.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
	[64.175.32.231])
	by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h588opER022586
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 01:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030608014831.00e02a50@mail.frys.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 01:50:40 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] preference question
In-Reply-To: <001b01c32d73$514cc320$0201a8c0@kimathlon>
References: <BAY7-F68Pim9OciPXkm000083f8@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I usually go with three sets of laces, tho I don't think it's period.  One 
lace goes in the middle four holes, right at the waist.  One lace does 
everything above the waist, and one lace does everything below the waist.

>I've never really noticed the difference, and I've done it both way.


>I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces.
>
>Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to
>the
>waist, or two long laces tied at the waist?  You can email me off list
>if
>you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com .  I just want to know what
>people
>like or dislike about one methos or another.


        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 09:05:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58D5jHP023522
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:05:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58D2vUw017178
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:02:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58D2tGo024853;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:02:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58D2pGo024800
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:02:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p14-nas4.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.208.14] 
	by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19Ozos-00068S-00; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:02:46 +1200
Message-ID: <3EE333F6.3050103@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:02:46 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
	<p05100305bb05acd9cc37@[66.81.243.212]>
In-Reply-To: <p05100305bb05acd9cc37@[66.81.243.212]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working 
furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the 
go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy 
B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious 
anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time)

Anyway:
http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm

No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of my 
accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace.

So far I have:
hennin, base and covered in velvet and red glass beads and pearls, still 
need to finish the design but if it doesn't happen this will do. I also 
need to make the head band with loop to go under it, but it wedges on 
nicely with no support arleady, just my plaits. And i need to line the 
hennin.

Necklace: two more rows of seed bead loops, again if I don't have time 
it's enough as it is.

Shift: done! needs re-ironing and one gather has popped, but otherwise;)

Kirtle: fitted and edges neatened, but it needs hemming and lacing done. 
Then I will turn all seams in to hand finish for if I wish to enter it 
into A&S comps:)

gown: wool sewn and only one seam left to neaten, how I love herringbone 
stitch! I'm getting the velvet trim around the neck, need to finish that 
then sew silver cording on either side of the trim.. then do that for 
the cuffs! And a deep velvet border at the bottom of the gown. And 
lacing rings;)

hose: still need to cut them out...

Shoes: got them cut out! Need to stitch together, so I need leather 
needles.

So.. not quite finished;) But getting there:)

Yes, I have a penchant for orange;)

OK, going to send this to the sca-garb list that's *not* the yahoo group 
and hopefully off to bed:)

micahela
http://glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 09:20:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58DKHHP023564
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:20:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58DIVUw018145
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:18:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58DIUGo000735;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:18:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58DISGo000711
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:18:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19P043-0002vd-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 06:18:27 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 06:18:25 -0700
Message-ID: <000501c32dc0$71f68d20$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <3EE333F6.3050103@ihug.co.nz>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Very nice work!  I love your fashion plates!  It is going to be
"saaaaaweeeet"!   I really like the dark trim on the opening.

Sg

~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of michaela
~Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 6:03 AM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:)
~
~Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working
~furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the
~go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy
~B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious
~anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time)
~
~Anyway:
~http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm
~
~No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of
my
~accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace.
~
~So far I have:
~hennin, base and covered in velvet and red glass beads and pearls,
still
~need to finish the design but if it doesn't happen this will do. I also
~need to make the head band with loop to go under it, but it wedges on
~nicely with no support arleady, just my plaits. And i need to line the
~hennin.
~
~Necklace: two more rows of seed bead loops, again if I don't have time
~it's enough as it is.
~
~Shift: done! needs re-ironing and one gather has popped, but
otherwise;)
~
~Kirtle: fitted and edges neatened, but it needs hemming and lacing
done.
~Then I will turn all seams in to hand finish for if I wish to enter it
~into A&S comps:)
~
~gown: wool sewn and only one seam left to neaten, how I love
herringbone
~stitch! I'm getting the velvet trim around the neck, need to finish
that
~then sew silver cording on either side of the trim.. then do that for
~the cuffs! And a deep velvet border at the bottom of the gown. And
~lacing rings;)
~
~hose: still need to cut them out...
~
~Shoes: got them cut out! Need to stitch together, so I need leather
~needles.
~
~So.. not quite finished;) But getting there:)
~
~Yes, I have a penchant for orange;)
~
~OK, going to send this to the sca-garb list that's *not* the yahoo
group
~and hopefully off to bed:)
~
~micahela
~http://glittersweet.com
~
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 11:41:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58FfqHP023850
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:41:53 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58FdKUw026935
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:39:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58FdIXt020462;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:39:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.136.129.107])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h58FdGXt020447
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:39:17 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030608153916.51727.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [209.78.208.191] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sun, 08 Jun 2003 08:39:16 PDT
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 08:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: KATHRYN WOLTERS <albrakat7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:)
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EE333F6.3050103@ihug.co.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Very nice work michella---looking forward to the  article on the construction---(I made a burgundian ages ago---and it's time to make another--time and gravity having taken their toll:(
thanks so much for sharing!
Cheers and Best !
Albra

michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working 
furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the 
go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy 
B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious 
anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time)

Anyway:
http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm

No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of my 
accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace.

So far I have:
hennin, base and covered in velvet and red glass beads and pearls, still 
need to finish the design but if it doesn't happen this will do. I also 
need to make the head band with loop to go under it, but it wedges on 
nicely with no support arleady, just my plaits. And i need to line the 
hennin.

Necklace: two more rows of seed bead loops, again if I don't have time 
it's enough as it is.

Shift: done! needs re-ironing and one gather has popped, but otherwise;)

Kirtle: fitted and edges neatened, but it needs hemming and lacing done. 
Then I will turn all seams in to hand finish for if I wish to enter it 
into A&S comps:)

gown: wool sewn and only one seam left to neaten, how I love herringbone 
stitch! I'm getting the velvet trim around the neck, need to finish that 
then sew silver cording on either side of the trim.. then do that for 
the cuffs! And a deep velvet border at the bottom of the gown. And 
lacing rings;)

hose: still need to cut them out...

Shoes: got them cut out! Need to stitch together, so I need leather 
needles.

So.. not quite finished;) But getting there:)

Yes, I have a penchant for orange;)

OK, going to send this to the sca-garb list that's *not* the yahoo group 
and hopefully off to bed:)

micahela
http://glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 14:05:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58I5uHP024197
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:05:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58I49Uw007899
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:04:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58I47sq017445;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:04:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58I45sq017368
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:04:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m191.in-tch.com [216.166.191.191])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h58HjQj00592
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:45:26 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE37AF2.183BC948@in-tch.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 12:05:38 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:)
References: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
	<3EE333F6.3050103@ihug.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Michaela, this looks like so much fun! I look forward to seeing the
completed outfit, too!
I know someone who would just *adore* your color choice, too!
I do hope, when you get the whole process posted on line, that you talk
*lots* about the details (like that amazing necklace)....
--sue, admittedly completely addicted to dress diaries ;-)

michaela wrote:
> 
> Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working
> furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the
> go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy
> B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious
> anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time)
> 
> Anyway:
> http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 16:43:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58KhBHP024641
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:43:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58KfPUw021702
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:41:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58KfEd7000996;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:41:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.traknet.com ([64.9.82.131])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58KfBd7000963
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:41:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from WorkingGirl ([64.9.82.192]) by mail.traknet.com
          (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58579U2500L250S0V35)
          with ESMTP id com for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>;
          Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:51:23 -0400
From: "Margaret Baird " <beads@traknet.com>
To: <h-costume@net.indra.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:41:06 -0400
Message-ID: <000001c32dfe$497a70d0$c0520940@WorkingGirl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] deaccessioning a sewing room
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h58KhBHP024641
Status: RO

Hello,  All of you seem to know one another pretty well, so I’m feeling
a bit shy about writing, but a couple of you are on the FOCD list so
here it goes.  My mother died 2 ½ years ago and I’m finally down to the
nitty gritty of clearing out her sewing room drawers.  She was a good
little New Englander and a Virgo as well so she had more than just a
slight tendency to be a pack rat.  Among her things, are these great
rolls of brown silk grosgrain ribbon which I will never have a use for.
My best guess is that she bought these rolls new when she worked for
Woodward and Lothrop’s in the 1940’s.  I thought I would offer them up
to the members of this list the same way I’ve done other things on FOCD.
So if anyone would like a share of these sewing treasures the “deal” is
that I mail a box to you and you send me the postage plus whatever you
feel it is worth to you.  I send the money on to my dad who is building
a memorial fund in her name at the Lowell Quilt Museum.  Hope no one
feels that I’m out of line making this offer to the list, but since the
only thing I get out of it personally is the chance to have my sewing
space back I’m hoping that no one will mind.  If you are interested I
can be reached at beads@traknet.com .  Thanks, Margaret Baird

 

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 16:52:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58KqYHP024678
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:52:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58KooUw022397
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:50:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58Kond7005194;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:50:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.traknet.com ([64.9.82.131])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58Koid7005125
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:50:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from WorkingGirl ([64.9.82.192]) by mail.traknet.com
          (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58579U2500L250S0V35)
          with ESMTP id com for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>;
          Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:00:57 -0400
From: "Margaret Baird " <beads@traknet.com>
To: <h-costume@net.indra.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:50:40 -0400
Message-ID: <000501c32dff$9fa30fc0$c0520940@WorkingGirl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] deaccessioning addendum
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h58KqYHP024678
Status: RO

There are two apparently full (10 yd each) rolls of ¾” , 7 rolls in
various degrees of fullness of 1 1/8” and 6 rolls again of varying
degrees of fullness of 1 ¼” ribbons.  As I leave it up to you to decide
what it is worth I wasn’t going to measure it all out but will if the
total length is important to you.  Thanks again Margaret Baird

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 19:05:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58N5qHP025213
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:05:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58N41Uw002519
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:04:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h58N3xFx003276;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:03:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h58N3uFx003252
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:03:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 1044 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2003 23:03:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50)
  by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2003 23:03:56 -0000
Received: from 12.233.12.26
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com)
        by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP;
        Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1107.12.233.12.26.1055113436.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:)
From: <dch@inreach.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EE333F6.3050103@ihug.co.nz>
References: <7c.39d38e05.2c11242e@aol.com>
        <p05100305bb05acd9cc37@[66.81.243.212]>
        <3EE333F6.3050103@ihug.co.nz>
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working
> furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the
> go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy
> B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious
> anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time)
>
> Anyway:
> http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm
>
> No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of my
>  accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace.

I also think your necklace is fabulous!!

Did you go to fashion design school?  Your renderings are just like a
woman I used to sew with who had gone to fashion design school.

In any case, nice work so far!

Diana


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 21:02:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5912LHP025495
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:02:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5910YUw011490
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:00:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5910XXT020457;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:00:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5910VXT020447
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:00:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19PB1N-0007je-00; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:00:26 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] deaccessioning a sewing room
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:00:17 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c32e22$83455270$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <000001c32dfe$497a70d0$c0520940@WorkingGirl>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
cc: beads@traknet.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Margaret! I think this is a great idea...and I'll take you up on it.
I will send you my address offlist.  Thanks for the opportunity!

Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 21:02:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5912THP025498
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:02:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h590wAUw011355
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:58:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h590w9XT019543;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:58:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h590w5XT019510
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:58:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from susan (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157])
	by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A5653704F2
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun,  8 Jun 2003 17:57:48 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <003201c32e22$c02e4750$0200a8c0@susan>
From: "Susan" <scourney@nwlink.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:02:07 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-DCC-wanadoo-be-Metrics: net.indra.com 1016; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric sale in the Dayton Ohio area
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi all,

My dad runs a thrift/donation/whatever store for the Troy Ohio Habitat for
Humanity group.  They had a lot of drapery fabric donated to them and they
are selling it for $2 a yard.  I haven't seen this, so I don't know the
ratio of prints to brocades, but my mom said some of it is really nice.
Since I'm too far away to take advantage of this, I thought I'd pass it on.
I hope that's ok.

Could someone pass this on to the Dayton area SCA please?

Thanks,
Susan Courney

> It's called the Restore and it is open Friday and Saturday 9AM -3PM.

>Directions:  Coming north on I75 they should get off at the first Troy
Exit, Exit 73.
>Turn right coming off the ramp.  Follow road towards town, go through two
> traffic lights, then go left on Lincoln. After crossing a railroad track
> go left on Simpson, then right on Garfield and they will see the sign.
> The address is 518 South Garfield.  IT's sort of an out of the way spot
> but easy to get to if you know where to go.

(and if you see a man named Ralph running around, tell him his daughter says
hi ;-)


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 21:06:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5916nHP025502
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:06:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59155Uw011830
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:05:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59154XT022292;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:05:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59152XT022285
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:05:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19PB5o-0005yL-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:05:00 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:04:59 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c32e23$26d5ba60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hope it is a glorious spring or summer day where you all are.  It is hot
here in Phoenix  - already ~104 .I don't mind, but I only go outside for
the morning hours. 
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 21:33:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591XTHP025536
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:33:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591ViUw013455
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:31:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591VgXT002297;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:31:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591VcXT002190
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:31:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a261.in-tch.com [66.62.107.61])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h591Cxj11308
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:12:59 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE3E3D6.44C69213@in-tch.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 19:33:10 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
References: <000001c32e23$26d5ba60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Doesn't that count as "spring weather" in your neck of the woods? <g>
We're having the usual mix of one nice, sunny hot day followed by a
thunderstormy day.
Dunno what everyone else is up to (and yeah, it sure *is* quiet!), but
I'm engaged in the usual pre-event scramble to make clothes (in this
case, 2 simple early-16th c. Italian dresses, and a couple of camicias
for a camping event I'm headed to later this week).
--sue

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Hope it is a glorious spring or summer day where you all are.  It is hot
> here in Phoenix  - already ~104 .I don't mind, but I only go outside for
> the morning hours.
> 
> Sg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 21:59:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591xcHP025570
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:59:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591vrUw015144
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:57:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591vqwj013190;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:57:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.traknet.com ([64.9.82.131])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h591vnwj013172
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:57:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from WorkingGirl ([64.9.82.150]) by mail.traknet.com
          (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58579U2500L250S0V35)
          with ESMTP id com for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>;
          Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:08:03 -0400
From: "Margaret Baird " <beads@traknet.com>
To: <h-costume@net.indra.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:57:46 -0400
Message-ID: <000601c32e2a$865557f0$96520940@WorkingGirl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] ribbons
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Sorry, all of the ribbon is spoken for.  Thanks for all of your
interest.  Margaret

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 22:21:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592LLHP025602
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:21:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592JUUw017262
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:19:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592JOwj023223;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:19:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592JKwj023167
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:19:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.7b.12ca964b (4116)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:19:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <7b.12ca964b.2c15489e@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:19:10 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/8/03 9:33:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mooncat@in-tch.com writes:

> Doesn't that count as "spring weather" in your neck of the woods? <g>
> We're having the usual mix of one nice, sunny hot day followed by a
> thunderstormy day.
> Dunno what everyone else is up to (and yeah, it sure *is* quiet!), but
> I'm engaged in the usual pre-event scramble to make clothes (in this
> case, 2 simple early-16th c. Italian dresses, and a couple of camicias
> for a camping event I'm headed to later this week).

Blah!  Nice weather my foot- I graduated from high school today (*preen!*) in 
cloudy, nasty weather, and it's been raining on and off for the past three 
weeks or so.  Granted it was sunny on Friday, but it was the first time I'd seen 
the sun in at least 12 days!  Ah well.  I finally have my diploma.
Costume relevance: I showed off my Margo-pattern Elizabethan ("The Green 
Brocade") last Wednesday, and it was very well received!  I'll be getting dressed 
in it tomorrow, and I'll have pictures taken so that I can post them 
somewhere.

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 22:51:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592pnHP025698
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:51:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592o1Uw020220
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:50:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592o0wj006984;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:50:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592nvwj006968
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:49:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h592nu4r013817
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.197.114] (tnt-1-178.HIP.Berkeley.EDU
	[136.152.197.114])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h592nquG013795
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:49:54 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100302bb09a4a18f2a@[136.152.197.114]>
In-Reply-To: <000001c32e23$26d5ba60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
References: <000001c32e23$26d5ba60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:45:58 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 6:04 PM -0700 6/8/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
>Hope it is a glorious spring or summer day where you all are.  It is hot
>here in Phoenix  - already ~104 .I don't mind, but I only go outside for
>the morning hours.
>

Here around the SF bay, we're having one of those "cool grey" 
weekends.  Last night the fog-ceiling was at just the right level 
that the sky glowed with the reflection of the urban lights.  Eerie 
and vaguely disturbing.  I looked out the window right around 11 pm 
before going to bed and had a moment's irrational panic that the city 
must be burning to glow like that.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun  8 23:10:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h593AfHP025745
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:10:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5938iUw021928
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:08:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5938hlO015810;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:08:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail4.mn.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5938elO015779
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:08:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail4.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:07:27 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030608220957.02f18a80@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:13:46 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <000001c32dfe$497a70d0$c0520940@WorkingGirl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt!  Help -- clothes suggestions?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Greetings,

As of 12:30 pm, Saturday June 7th I am the proud aunt of Bowen Ian Nunn 
(9lbs 9oz - 53cm/21in) and need to make some cool but practical baby 
clothes (medieval/celtic theme things are good).  Since I've never had much 
to do with babies before - anyone have suggestions?  I've got a lot to live 
up to, I've been told I'm officially the kids' "cool aunt" ...

Cheers,
Danielle

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 01:01:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5951lHP025972
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 01:01:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h594wjUw029815
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:58:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h594wiQd029882;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:58:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h594weQd029855
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:58:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a156.directcon.net [207.215.72.156])
	by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h59546k27537;
	Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:04:06 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030608215954.00ffd420@pop.directcon.net>
X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:59:54 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>, h-costume@indra.com
From: Margo Anderson <margo@margospatterns.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
In-Reply-To: <7b.12ca964b.2c15489e@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 10:19 PM 06/08/2003 EDT, IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:
 I graduated from high school today (*preen!*) 

Congratulations!

Margo

"One Tough Costumer"

www.margospatterns.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 06:37:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AbMHP029723
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:37:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AY1Uw020896
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:34:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AXvY1019481;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:33:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AXrY1019429
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:33:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B84810EF75
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon,  9 Jun 2003 06:33:48 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <008901c32e72$9e44bc00$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030608220957.02f18a80@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt!  Help -- clothes suggestions?
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:33:45 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Congratulations! (And a sympathetic "Ouch!" to the mother, that's a BIG
baby!)

Cynthia Virtue made some adorable tunics and hoods for her twins. You might
want to check her page for pictures.

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" <dannw@mn.rr.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions?


> Greetings,
>
> As of 12:30 pm, Saturday June 7th I am the proud aunt of Bowen Ian Nunn
> (9lbs 9oz - 53cm/21in) and need to make some cool but practical baby
> clothes (medieval/celtic theme things are good).  Since I've never had
much
> to do with babies before - anyone have suggestions?  I've got a lot to
live
> up to, I've been told I'm officially the kids' "cool aunt" ...
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 06:38:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AcMHP029728
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:38:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AZEUw020982
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:35:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AZDY1019959;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:35:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AZAY1019925
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:35:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A646310EF4F
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon,  9 Jun 2003 06:35:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <009101c32e72$cc7169c0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <7b.12ca964b.2c15489e@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:35:08 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


> Blah!  Nice weather my foot- I graduated from high school today (*preen!*)
in
> cloudy, nasty weather, and it's been raining on and off for the past three
> weeks or so.

CONGRATULATIONS!!

My oldest son graduated last Friday. I feel very old...

Dianne

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 06:47:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AlbHP029751
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:47:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AiZUw021322
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:44:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59AiYY1022701;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:44:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.88])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h59AiWY1022667
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 04:44:32 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030609104427.88589.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:44:27 BST
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:44:27 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <009101c32e72$cc7169c0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Nah, I just was on no email/not on list for a while, got a tad bored with the
list. ;-)

Anything interesting happened in the meantime? Anything that is waiting to get
stirred up? *LOL*

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 07:58:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59BwqHP029905
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 07:58:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59BtmUw027379
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:55:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59BtkQ3021186;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:55:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59BtgQ3021081
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:55:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a215.in-tch.com [66.62.107.15])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h59Bb2j08196
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:37:03 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE4761B.72F90A24@in-tch.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 05:57:15 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
References: <7b.12ca964b.2c15489e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Congratulations!
<g> It rained/stormed when I graduated high school, too.  And it was an
outdoor ceremony.  I remember the mud up the back of my gown (from my
shoes flipping bits up there as I walked), and how they'd covered the
speakers for the sound system with these huge garbage bags, which came
off in the winds, and floated lazily about in the air like weird
balloons.
Gawd, but that was a long time ago.  Now I'm feeling old, too.....*sigh*
--sue

IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:
> 

> Blah!  Nice weather my foot- I graduated from high school today (*preen!*) in
> cloudy, nasty weather, and it's been raining on and off for the past three
> weeks or so.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 11:46:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59FkkHP030473
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:46:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59FhQUw017175
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:43:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59FhMuR014891;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:43:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59FhHuR014771
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:43:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.77.12a17844 (4402)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:43:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <77.12a17844.2c16050a@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:43:06 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/9/03 7:57:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mooncat@in-tch.com (and a group of others) writes:

> Congratulations!

Thank you!  No more school for me!  At least, not until I head off to college 
in August.  They have a chapter of the SCA there, and there's someone in 
charge of sewing/needlework.  I'll fit right in!  <g>


> <g> It rained/stormed when I graduated high school, too.  And it was an
> outdoor ceremony.  I remember the mud up the back of my gown (from my
> shoes flipping bits up there as I walked), and how they'd covered the
> speakers for the sound system with these huge garbage bags, which came
> off in the winds, and floated lazily about in the air like weird
> balloons.
> Gawd, but that was a long time ago.  Now I'm feeling old, too.....*sigh*

We graduated in fifty identical white spaghetti-strap floor-length gowns, and 
fifty pairs of very different white sandals.  The tarp they laid down beneath 
the tent wasn't enough to keep the mud from us, so the fronts of my shoes are 
mud-covered (white fabric...any hints?!), and the back of my dress is 
spattered (dry cleaner's..soon).  Fortunately, chilly and cloudy as it was, there was 
no rain- so at least we weren't soaked graduates!  

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 13:03:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59H3dHP030653
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:03:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59GuaVi025670
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:59:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59Ggufk027390;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:42:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h59Ggcfk027050
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:42:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OhZ0dw79X+Q7TupBCvFsyl8=">; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:41:36
	PDT
Received: (from cley@juno.com) 
 by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HZ9D6RMD; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:41:36 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:57:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet!
Message-ID: <20030609.094108.368.0.Cley@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Att: 0
X-Juno-RefParts: 0
From: Cynthia J Ley <cley@juno.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Tried Oxyclean?

And congratulations! :-)

Arlys

> We graduated in fifty identical white spaghetti-strap floor-length 
> gowns, and 
> fifty pairs of very different white sandals.  The tarp they laid 
> down beneath 
> the tent wasn't enough to keep the mud from us, so the fronts of my 
> shoes are 
> mud-covered (white fabric...any hints?!), and the back of my dress 
> is 
> spattered (dry cleaner's..soon).  Fortunately, chilly and cloudy as 
> it was, there was 
> no rain- so at least we weren't soaked graduates!  
> 
> Christine
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 14:54:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59IsEHP031026
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:54:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59IorUw008987
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:50:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59IonB8002479;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:50:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.113])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59IolB8002365
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:50:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from comcast.net
 (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197])
 by mtaout03.icomcast.net
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HG8008KD9NRAC@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for
 h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:50:15 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:51:40 -0500
From: "Linda J. Thompson" <LindaJThompson@comcast.net>
To: h-costume@net.indra.com
Message-id: <3EE4D73C.40802@comcast.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2)
 Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01
Subject: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Silk should never be bleached.  It yellows badly, and from my experience it can not easily 
be gotten out once it happens. I believe it greatly shortens the life of the fabric.
The Oxy cleaners work wonders to whiten silk.. I spilled hot tea onto a white sueded 
charmeuse just this past week, and was in a panic when it did not come out in the regular 
wash (washed but not dried in).
I took a wash basin, put in a scoop of the oxy clean stuff, added about a gallon of very 
hot water, and soaked the shirt for a couple of hours and it came out completely.  Then I 
made the mistake of setting the wet shirt ontop of a box of drier sheets when the 
telephone rang, forgot about it for several hours.... And the print dye from the box 
transferrred to the shirt.... had to re-soak it a gain, but it worked wonders.
-- 
Linda Thompson

Attitude Is Everything
http://corsetsandcostumes.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 15:32:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JWSHP031110
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:32:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JTJUw013351
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:29:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JTHxF000911;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:29:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JTCxF000848
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:29:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17370
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:51:37 -0500
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:51:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach
In-Reply-To: <3EE4D73C.40802@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306091449580.15672-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Linda J. Thompson wrote:

> Silk should never be bleached.  It yellows badly, and from my
> experience it can not easily be gotten out once it happens. I believe
> it greatly shortens the life of the fabric.

That's putting it mildly. Silk, like wool, dissolves in bleach. It's one
of the tests I use to find out a fabric's fiber content (thanks to
whomever it was who first posted the idea to this list!).

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 15:43:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JhaHP031143
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:43:36 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JeFUw014551
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:40:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JeDxF008991;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:40:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lycos.com (www4.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.170])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h59Je7xF008801
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:40:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com;
	Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:39:58 -0000
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:39:58 -0400
From: "Katie Lewis" <katie_lewis@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <DIGJJMJHPLDDJFAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sent-Mail: on
X-Mailer: MailCity Service
X-Priority: 3
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt!  Help -- clothes suggestions?
X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.5.166
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Language: en
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Congratulations!

Check out:
http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm

if the link dosen't work go to Drea's site www.costume.dm.net and click on Breughel's Babies.

This won't be much help for dressing a newborn, but is very useful for when the kid is a few months old.  I'm using this article as a jumping off point for the research on the clothes I'm making for my son Thomas(5 weeks yesterday!) to wear this fall when he starts going to events.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the author's conclusions regarding the layers, but I need to do more research and find better reproductions of the paintings.

-Katie






____________________________________________________________
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 15:57:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JvNHP031170
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:57:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JsGUw016402
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:54:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59JsDxF020273;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:54:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59Js7xF020145
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:54:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.bc.393fa56c (16109)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:53:58 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-d13.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.129]) by
	air-id12.mx.aol.com (v93.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed3ee4e5d61ad; Mon,
	09 Jun 2003 15:53:58 -0400
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:53:58 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt!
	=?ISO-8859-1?B?oEhlbHAgLS0gY2xvdGhlcyBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucz8=?=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <077BC17D.128B1A23.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm
Oy! The link that will not die.  I wrote this several years ago & can't get it to go away.  I am hoping that once I cancel this email account that they'll shut off my space.
I recently did a small article for an SCA magazine - the copy of that article is at http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/breughelbabies2.htm

Unfortunately, it appears I didn't put in any of the links to the drawings, etc.  I have a few PDFs with drawings and snippets that I could send to anyone who is interested. 

>I'm not sure I agree with all of the author's conclusions regarding the layers, but I need to do more research and find better reproductions of the paintings.
I don't agree with all of the author's conclusions either (I could argue with myself all day), but I have done more research/speculation/experimentation & have come up with better rationalizations.

I need to take a weekend and get everything down on paper/website & in control.  :)  For anyone who is interested, I will be teaching a half day session at Pennsic on Breugel clothes for men, women and children.

Constance
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 16:04:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59K4OHP031193
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:04:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59K18Uw017311
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:01:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59K14Co026563;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:01:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59K11Co026532
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:01:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19PSpA-0000KC-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:01:00 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:00:58 -0700
Message-ID: <001401c32ec1$d92aea20$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11
<http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&full=1&mark=0
&item=24%2E80%2E529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529
 
This portrait was new to me and thought you all might enjoy it.
 
 
Saragrace
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 17:56:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59LujHP031672
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:56:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59Lu8Uw000283
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:56:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59LrOcW022452;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:53:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe29.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.86])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59LqlcW022013
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:52:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:52:42 -0700
Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe29.law8.hotmail.com with DAV;
	Mon, 09 Jun 2003 21:52:42 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91]
X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com]
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin2@hotmail.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <BAY7-F68Pim9OciPXkm000083f8@hotmail.com>
	<4.3.1.2.20030608014831.00e02a50@mail.frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] preference question
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:52:44 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <Law8-OE29P7Ie8tlMaz0000d200@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2003 21:52:42.0726 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[7417B860:01C32ED1]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I do something similar with my Elizabethan corset. I find it more
comfortable, because it keeps it tight exactly where it needs to be and I
can slack it off where I want it not quite as tight. It also allows me to
keep the space in the back even.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" <kayta@frys.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 4:50 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] preference question


> I usually go with three sets of laces, tho I don't think it's period.  One
> lace goes in the middle four holes, right at the waist.  One lace does
> everything above the waist, and one lace does everything below the waist.
>
> >I've never really noticed the difference, and I've done it both way.
>
>
> >I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces.
> >
> >Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to
> >the
> >waist, or two long laces tied at the waist?  You can email me off list
> >if
> >you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com .  I just want to know what
> >people
> >like or dislike about one methos or another.
>
>
>         CarolynKayta Barrows
> dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
>           www.FunStuft.com
>
>               //// \\\
>              ////-@@\\\
>             ((((   7 )))
>              (((  <> ))))
>                 )   ((((((
>            /----\   /---\))
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 18:12:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59MCNHP031724
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:12:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59MBgUw002008
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:11:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59M91Y6003666;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:09:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59M8vY6003601
	for <h-costume@net.indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:08:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19PUoy-000KJT-0W; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:08:56 +0100
Message-ID: <JV5kT3A$OQ5+IwRc@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:01:35 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach
References: <3EE4D73C.40802@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <3EE4D73C.40802@comcast.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
cc: h-costume@net.indra.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This came up perfect timing for me.  I need to make hair accessories in 
silk, and I have a big enough bit of scrap which is much too bright 
yellow, but would be fine in a lighter shade.  I went to the bathroom 
bleach, and discovered it was peroxide instead of chlorine - "safe when 
spilt on clothing", damn!  But is that what you mean by oxy cleaners - 
are they peroxide bleach?

Jean


Linda J. Thompson <LindaJThompson@comcast.net> wrote
>Silk should never be bleached.  It yellows badly, and from my 
>experience it can not easily be gotten out once it happens. I believe 
>it greatly shortens the life of the fabric.
>The Oxy cleaners work wonders to whiten silk.. I spilled hot tea onto a 
>white sueded charmeuse just this past week, and was in a panic when it 
>did not come out in the regular wash (washed but not dried in).
>I took a wash basin, put in a scoop of the oxy clean stuff, added about 
>a gallon of very hot water, and soaked the shirt for a couple of hours 
>and it came out completely.  Then I made the mistake of setting the wet 
>shirt ontop of a box of drier sheets when the telephone rang, forgot 
>about it for several hours.... And the print dye from the box 
>transferrred to the shirt.... had to re-soak it a gain, but it worked 
>wonders.

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 18:14:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59MEtHP031736
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:14:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59MEIUw002273
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:14:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59MBsY6005547;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:11:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h59M8vY6003600
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:08:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19PUoy-000KJT-0W; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:08:56 +0100
Message-ID: <JV5kT3A$OQ5+IwRc@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:01:35 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach
References: <3EE4D73C.40802@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <3EE4D73C.40802@comcast.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
cc: h-costume@net.indra.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This came up perfect timing for me.  I need to make hair accessories in 
silk, and I have a big enough bit of scrap which is much too bright 
yellow, but would be fine in a lighter shade.  I went to the bathroom 
bleach, and discovered it was peroxide instead of chlorine - "safe when 
spilt on clothing", damn!  But is that what you mean by oxy cleaners - 
are they peroxide bleach?

Jean


Linda J. Thompson <LindaJThompson@comcast.net> wrote
>Silk should never be bleached.  It yellows badly, and from my 
>experience it can not easily be gotten out once it happens. I believe 
>it greatly shortens the life of the fabric.
>The Oxy cleaners work wonders to whiten silk.. I spilled hot tea onto a 
>white sueded charmeuse just this past week, and was in a panic when it 
>did not come out in the regular wash (washed but not dried in).
>I took a wash basin, put in a scoop of the oxy clean stuff, added about 
>a gallon of very hot water, and soaked the shirt for a couple of hours 
>and it came out completely.  Then I made the mistake of setting the wet 
>shirt ontop of a box of drier sheets when the telephone rang, forgot 
>about it for several hours.... And the print dye from the box 
>transferrred to the shirt.... had to re-soak it a gain, but it worked 
>wonders.

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 20:08:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A08NHP032087
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:08:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A07nUw016653
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:07:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A07gh7021098;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:07:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A07Yh7020966
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:07:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p22-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.207.150] 
	by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19PWff-0006xJ-00; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:07:28 +1200
Message-ID: <3EE52138.4070604@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:07:20 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306091449580.15672-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306091449580.15672-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> That's putting it mildly. Silk, like wool, dissolves in bleach. It's one
> of the tests I use to find out a fabric's fiber content (thanks to
> whomever it was who first posted the idea to this list!).

Yep, discovered that when I wanted to remove fuschia dye for a piece of 
silk chiffon. The shop assistant said *not* to iron it but to try 
bleaching it... I have no idea why she thought bleach was safe but 
ironing not....

I was wanting to iron it asit tends to crinkle so much that a 90cm wide 
piece winds up about 30cm. Still it's been useful like that so I haven't 
actually ironed it at all;)

Yes, It degrades beautifully in bleach does it not?

michaela
http://glittersweet.com



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 20:15:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0FXHP032096
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:15:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0F0Uw017927
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:15:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0Exh7025856;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:14:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0Euh7025821
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:14:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.182])
	by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h5A0XeP15473
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:33:43 +1000
Message-ID: <0c8401c32ee5$baf03a00$eaf4fea9@glendaii>
From: "Glenda Robinson" <glendar@compassnet.com.au>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EE4D73C.40802@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:10:32 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I once accidentally put my husband's linen collar with silk tassels in
laundry soaker and the silk yellowed. As it wasn't too bad, he still used
the collar many times (and I washed it in the eucalyptus wool mix I use for
silk many times too). Over a year later he accidentally leant too close to
his claret and dipped one of the tassels in the wine.
I washed out the wine with wool mix, and lo and behold, not only did the
wine come out (after a long soak!), but the silk was white again! We then,
of course, dipped the other tassel in wine too!
I don't know what the active ingredient was in the wine that whitened the
silk, but it would be interesting to find out.

Glenda.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 20:26:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0QnHP032126
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:26:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0PgUw019756
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:25:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0Pfh7002510;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:25:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0Pbh8002467
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:25:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5A0PnkJ018400
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:25:49 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5A0PmXo018398
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:25:48 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:25:48 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <001401c32ec1$d92aea20$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
In-Reply-To: <001401c32ec1$d92aea20$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306092025.48486.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5A0Pbh8002467
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Monday 09 June 2003 04:00 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11
> <http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&full=1&mark=0
> &item=24%2E80%2E529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529
>
> This portrait was new to me and thought you all might enjoy it.


I'm confused.  Neither link identifies itself as being of a Moravian Woman.  
One is titled "The Epiphany" (Picture to match) and one is titled "Madonna 
and Child" (Picture to match)

I do not see a portrait, let alone one of a Moravian female. :-)


-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 20:27:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0RjHP032135
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:27:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0REUw020013
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:27:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0RDh7003347;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:27:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A0Qsh7003163
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:26:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p22-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.207.150] 
	by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19PWyR-0005xY-00; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:26:51 +1200
Message-ID: <3EE525CE.2040301@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:26:54 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:)
References: <000501c32dc0$71f68d20$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
In-Reply-To: <000501c32dc0$71f68d20$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

To reduce the amount of multiple posting on the same subject I'm going 
to reply to all ...replies;) so far.

> Very nice work!  I love your fashion plates!  It is going to be
> "saaaaaweeeet"!   I really like the dark trim on the opening.
> 
> Sg

Thanks:) It's going to be black cotton velvet borded with silver cord. 
I'm feeling less worried about it now that I have some on the dress. But 
it is all hand sewing and my fingers are triggering again:( Sigh.

 > Very nice work michella---looking forward to the  article on the 
construction---(I made a burgundian ages ago---and it's time to make 
another--time and gravity having taken their toll:(
 > thanks so much for sharing!
 > Cheers and Best !
 > Albra

Thanks:) Yeah, I've found some exciting things in just making this gown, 
  and will have to start typing them out or I may forget;) Oh and just 
as a side note, it's Michaela, not michella;) Not sure if it was a typo, 
but I've had others call me that too so I just wanted to clafify:)

 > Michaela, this looks like so much fun! I look forward to seeing the
 > completed outfit, too!

lol! Me too;) I'm not so panicked anymore.. maybe because the gloss of 
the occasion I'll be wearing it to has rubbed off and I'm not looking 
forward to it so much. Still I'm excited to be getting to the finiching 
touches of the gown:)

 > I know someone who would just *adore* your color choice, too!

hehe, there are a few orange lovers on this list;)

 > I do hope, when you get the whole process posted on line, that you talk
 > *lots* about the details (like that amazing necklace)....

Thanks:) I just bought some more wire, which is a different gauge but. 
Still it might be a nice halfway between the thicker wire and thread in 
that it will be softer and fit to the curves of the neck more:)

 > --sue, admittedly completely addicted to dress diaries ;-)

hehehe, I was going to start, but I haven't had that for other pages so 
it may look a bit out of place;)

 > I also think your necklace is fabulous!!

Thanks:) I had seen a bracelt at a 2nd hand store and thought it might 
do nicely for some jewellery if I pulled it apart, but left it as I 
wasn't that sure. Then I went back, it was still there and I realised it 
was perfect for what I needed:) And thus we have the silver sections of 
the necklace.

 > Did you go to fashion design school?  Your renderings are just like a
 > woman I used to sew with who had gone to fashion design school.

hehe, no, I just have drawn since I was a child:) And now with the 
costume interest I've gotten terrible! I now spend as much time drawing 
in seam placesments as I do on any other part! I really need to refind 
some inspiration and stop sketching like I'm doing costume renderings;)

I also had someone a few years ago gfo on about how she was in a 
fashion/costume class and that you had to do that if you wanted to be 
any good... so I looked at her, and mentioned a few of the Doyennes of 
costuming (Arnold, Bradfield, even Kohler as an example of what to take 
with a grain of sand...) and she had never heard of them!
I thought that said everything;) I doubt they are even being taught much 
about pattern drafting or cutting....

michaela
http://glittersweet.com
Not saying no one should go to school to learn a specialist subject. I 
needed to for performing, but others haven't. It's all to do with the 
student and the teachers and how they learn/teach.


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun  9 21:17:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A1HZHP032259
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 21:17:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A1H2Uw025444
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:17:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A1H0L2000753;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:17:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A1GtL2000684
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:16:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19PXks-0005xJ-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:16:55 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:16:54 -0700
Message-ID: <003301c32eed$fb4fbe60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] FW: Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

How weird!  It works for me.  Are you getting the whole url?  I have
tried pasting it as a hyperlink this time.  Hopefully it won't break it
up.  If all else fails go to www.metmuseum.org
<http://www.metmuseum.org/>   search function and put in Pieter Pietersz
as the artist, or Moravian as a key word.
 
http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11
<http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&full=1&mark=0
&item=24.80.529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529
 
Sg
 
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 00:06:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A46bHP032590
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:06:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A466Uw007496
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:06:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A465OB019956;
	Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:06:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A45xOC019906
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:06:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5A45xkJ018790
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:06:11 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5A45rV5018788
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:05:53 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:05:52 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <003301c32eed$fb4fbe60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
In-Reply-To: <003301c32eed$fb4fbe60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306100005.52733.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5A45xOC019906
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Monday 09 June 2003 09:16 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> How weird!  It works for me.  Are you getting the whole url?  I have
> tried pasting it as a hyperlink this time.  Hopefully it won't break it
> up.  If all else fails go to www.metmuseum.org
> <http://www.metmuseum.org/>   search function and put in Pieter Pietersz
> as the artist, or Moravian as a key word.
>
> http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11
> <http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&full=1&mark=0
> &item=24.80.529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529

Thanks.  I found it via the search.  Very nice.

-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 04:17:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A8HkHP020463
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:17:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A8HDUw023139
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:17:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A8H7Sp009810;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:17:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5A8H4Sp009797
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:17:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-124-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
	[67.121.124.47])
	by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5A8H2ET007124
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:17:03 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030609231728.0525d5d0@mail.frys.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:18:04 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] preference question
In-Reply-To: <Law8-OE29P7Ie8tlMaz0000d200@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY7-F68Pim9OciPXkm000083f8@hotmail.com>
 <4.3.1.2.20030608014831.00e02a50@mail.frys.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>I do something similar with my Elizabethan corset. I find it more
>comfortable, because it keeps it tight exactly where it needs to be and I
>can slack it off where I want it not quite as tight. It also allows me to
>keep the space in the back even.

Yes - that's why I do it.  Otherwise I can't keep it the right size at the 
waist.


        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 11:11:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFBtHP005512
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:11:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFBCUw023580
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:11:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFB7pm016608;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:11:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from zinc (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFB2pm016548
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:11:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host217-39-16-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.16.117]
	helo=dan)	by zinc with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23)	id 19Pkm4-000072-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:11:00 +0100
Message-ID: <000701c32f62$78a3b140$751027d9@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Subject: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi all,

I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined
pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather
puzzling.

The one attributed to 'H':

http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg


seems to show black fabric,

but a different portrait at

http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg

seems to be a bright red.

Can anyone enlighten me, please?

best wishes
Stevie

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 11:27:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFRxHP005552
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:27:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFR9Uw025353
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:27:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFR8pm027497;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:27:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from zinc (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFR5pm027454
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:27:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host217-39-16-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.16.117]
	helo=dan)	by zinc with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23)	id 19Pl1c-0003Gd-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:27:04 +0100
Message-ID: <001301c32f64$b7314380$751027d9@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:26:50 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Subject: [h-cost] OT crushed silk/viscose velvet
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi all,

Crushed silk/viscose velvet is presumably such a recent phenomenon
that it's OT for H-cost, but Denholme Velvet, which apparently
supplied velvet for the LOTR movies, have some on line for an
unbelievably cheap £5.95 a meter.


http://secure.marchioness.co.uk/

Marchioness is a division of Denholme.

best wishes
Stevie


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 11:45:12 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFjCHP005587
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:45:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFh8Uw027169
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:43:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFh6pm008717;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:43:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.48])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFh4pm008696
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:43:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19PlH4-0003K4-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:43:03 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT crushed silk/viscose velvet
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:42:58 -0700
Message-ID: <000401c32f66$fab261f0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <001301c32f64$b7314380$751027d9@dan>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hmmm, I wonder if they sell it 'across the pond' yet?  Do they sell it
without crushing or patterns?

Sg


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 11:50:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFocHP005599
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:50:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFnxUw027906
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:50:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AFnvpm013649;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:49:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5AFntpm013561
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:49:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCkTjygUlJNDMgt/D8RWJsmBX7xgFB5JBNw==">; Tue, 10 Jun 2003
	11:49:21 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2BVKSLW; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:49:21 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:31:04 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
Message-ID: <20030610.103105.-107428457.1.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,22-29,31-60
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Stevie,

While I have no definitive answer for you, I think I may be able to shed
some light on this issue. The answer is that they are both correct.
Although they appear to be the same cloak, it could be that Sweet Sir
Walter liked the design so much that he had two cloaks made with much the
same pattern. Or it could be that he had one cloak that was either red or
black but told the painter to change the color scheme to suite the rest
of the outfit in the picture. Or it could be that the black and white
portrait is the true picture and another artist used it as the basis for
the red portrait but changed the color scheme to suit what he wanted the
picture to look like. Or the cloak could be completely imaginary and
never really existed at all. In Janet Arnold's book 'Historic Costume'
she has reproductions of 3 portraits of Jane Seymour all of which seem to
be the same dress, but which have very noticable differences in the
design. Her conclusion was that they were all correct and usable as
documentation because they were all period variations on the same style
and there was no way to prove which one was the absolutely correct one.
Since both versions of Raleigh's cloak were done in period, there is no
way to prove which one is the correct one, so they must both be
considered as equally valid as they both express the period aesthetic. If
you want to reproduce a version of the cloak, go for it- and choose your
color scheme to suit yourself.

Karen





On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100 "Stevie Gamble"
<stevie.gamble@btinternet.com> writes:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur 
> lined pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather
> puzzling.
> 
> The one attributed to 'H':
> 
> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg
> 
> 
> seems to show black fabric,
> 
> but a different portrait at
> 
> http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg
> 
> seems to be a bright red.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me, please?
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 12:43:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AGhdHP005699
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:43:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AGgwUw004602
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:42:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AGgvln024616;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:42:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AGgsln024588
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:42:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bebf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.191])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 74AD147FFBC
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:42:53 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:46:45 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] update again
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hello!
I am not pleased with my speed of the dress. Oh it takes such a long time, i
hoped to get it finished next week, but now i am not sure.
Anyway, i could not find any trim like the dress from Kyoto has, so i baught
some ivory silk organza, cut out strips, baught a 2 mm. seam folder, and now
i have trimmed both sides of the skirt embroideries with it. Looks ok. Then
i have almost spend the whole day, making that compere opening front of the
dress with the ribbon embroideries.
Tomorrow, my last off the job day this week, ill make the underskirt.
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/toille.htm
I want to get this dress ready soon, sigh!!!!!
Well some of the time today went with booking tickets for a holliday in
Portugal. We will travel to Lisabon for 5 days, and Porto for 5 days in the
last week of august!
If i find a new wonderfull exhibition at Museu do Traje in Lisboa, like the
fantastic regency exhibition last time  i was there, i shall let you know!

Sorry i have not had the time to catch up with the emails!

Keep up the good work all!!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 13:41:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHftHP005962
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:41:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHf1Uw012041
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:41:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHevWX011109;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:40:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHeoWX011009
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:40:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host217-39-16-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.16.117]
	helo=dan)	by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23)
	id 19Pn72-0002G0-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:40:48 +0100
Message-ID: <001501c32f77$657cd780$751027d9@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030610.103105.-107428457.1.Seamstrix@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:40:29 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Karen wrote:


>
> While I have no definitive answer for you, I think I may be able to
shed
> some light on this issue. The answer is that they are both correct.
> Although they appear to be the same cloak, it could be that Sweet
Sir
> Walter liked the design so much that he had two cloaks made with
much the
> same pattern. Or it could be that he had one cloak that was either
red or
> black but told the painter to change the color scheme to suite the
rest
> of the outfit in the picture. Or it could be that the black and
white
> portrait is the true picture and another artist used it as the basis
for
> the red portrait but changed the color scheme to suit what he wanted
the
> picture to look like. Or the cloak could be completely imaginary and
> never really existed at all. In Janet Arnold's book 'Historic
Costume'
> she has reproductions of 3 portraits of Jane Seymour all of which
seem to
> be the same dress, but which have very noticable differences in the
> design. Her conclusion was that they were all correct and usable as
> documentation because they were all period variations on the same
style
> and there was no way to prove which one was the absolutely correct
one.
> Since both versions of Raleigh's cloak were done in period, there is
no
> way to prove which one is the correct one, so they must both be
> considered as equally valid as they both express the period
aesthetic. If
> you want to reproduce a version of the cloak, go for it- and choose
your
> color scheme to suit yourself.
>


Thank you, that is most helpful! Though choosing colours is not one of
my favourite activities, I possess a daughter who loves all things
red, and since she has just finished this year's lot of horrendous
exams, we are slowly re-emerging into the real world again. In our
case, a shared love of the 16th century real world, of course...

thanks again,

Stevie


> On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100 "Stevie Gamble"
> <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com> writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur
> > lined pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are
rather
> > puzzling.
> >
> > The one attributed to 'H':
> >
> > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg
> >
> >
> > seems to show black fabric,
> >
> > but a different portrait at
> >
> > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg
> >
> > seems to be a bright red.
> >
> > Can anyone enlighten me, please?
> >
> > best wishes
> > Stevie
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 13:44:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHiqHP006001
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:44:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHi5Uw012451
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:44:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHi4WX013840;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:44:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHeoWX011000
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:40:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host217-39-16-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.16.117]
	helo=dan)	by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23)
	id 19Pn71-0002G0-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:40:47 +0100
Message-ID: <001401c32f77$65521e00$751027d9@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000401c32f66$fab261f0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT crushed silk/viscose velvet
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:33:34 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Sg wrote, re my note below

> Hmmm, I wonder if they sell it 'across the pond' yet?  Do they sell
it
> without crushing or patterns?
>

Well, I am simply going by their website, which notes that they do
ship abroad, though shipping would presumably be much more expensive.
Denholme does a huge range of velvets, but as far as I know at the
moment the only ones going cheap are the ones I directed people to in
my note. You can always enquire, but I would not rely on the stocks
lasting very long, or getting prices like these on other products. The
crushed velvet is the range sold in Liberty's  which cost around £25 a
meter, say $40 a yard.

Hence my alerting the list...

best wishes
Stevie


----------------------
Crushed silk/viscose velvet is presumably such a recent phenomenon
that it's OT for H-cost, but Denholme Velvet, which apparently
supplied velvet for the LOTR movies, have some on line for an
unbelievably cheap £5.95 a meter.


http://secure.marchioness.co.uk/

Marchioness is a division of Denholme.


> Sg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 14:04:54 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AI4rHP006128
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:04:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHxMUw014794
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:59:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AHxKkT025853;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:59:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lycos.com (www4.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.170])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5AHxIkT025792
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:59:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:58:59 -0000
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:58:59 -0400
From: "Katie Lewis" <katie_lewis@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <DHMNIKHLPMMHJFAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sent-Mail: on
X-Mailer: MailCity Service
X-Priority: 3
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions?
X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.101.99
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Language: en
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--------- Original Message ---------

DATE: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:53:58
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Cc: 

>>http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm
>Oy! The link that will not die.  I wrote this >several years ago & can't get it to go away.

Sorry about that.  The link was a newer one on Drea's site, so I thought the article was more current than that.
  >I recently did a small article for an SCA >magazine - the copy of that article is at >http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/breughel>babies2.htm

Thanks for the new link!
>

>I have a few PDFs with drawings and snippets that I >could send to anyone who is interested. 
>
Yes please! if you could, please send it to roblewis@asu.edu (my sweetie's account, he has a faster 'puter than me),

>I don't agree with all of the author's conclusions >either (I could argue with myself all day), but I >have done more research/speculation/experimentation >& have come up with better rationalizations.
>

The newer article actually answered a lot of the questions I had about your reconstructions.  


-Katie
---
Willow: No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm having a rebellion!
Sheila: Willow, honey, you don't need to act out like this to prove your specialness.
Willow:  Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay, two, but four soon. A-and I'm dating a musician.I worship Beelzebub. I do his biddings. Do 
you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them.
Sheila:I'm not listening to this.
Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil.






____________________________________________________________
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 16:37:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AKbeHP006641
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:37:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AKauUw005023
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:36:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AKarTn003953;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:36:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AKalTn003860
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:36:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0024.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.24]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19PprJ-0004rF-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:36:45 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:34:53 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Greetings to all,

I'm looking for a color version of this portrait
http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg

Somehow I think I've seen one, perhaps in my own library, as I have this 
vague notion that the stomacher is gold under the pearls.

Does anyone have a source, either online or in print?  I checked the 
online catalog of the Fitzwilliam Museum, where the painting lives, but 
they don't have the image online.  If no one has another idea, I'll 
contact them to ask, but I thought I'd check with the list first.

Thanks!
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 18:14:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMEtHP006953
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:14:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMEIUw017196
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:14:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AME8Tr022825;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:14:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AME4Tr022779
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:14:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost)
	by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h5AME4Y220367
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:14:04 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:14:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach
In-Reply-To: <0c8401c32ee5$baf03a00$eaf4fea9@glendaii>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0306101711470.215881-100000@bigred.unl.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


> I washed out the wine with wool mix, and lo and behold, not only did the
> wine come out (after a long soak!), but the silk was white again! We then,
> of course, dipped the other tassel in wine too!

Wonderful!  I wonder if the tannin in the wine (acidic) reversed whatever
reaction the bleach (basic) caused?  It might be worth experimenting with
vinegar to return silk to white.  (I still wouldn't bleach silk to begin
with, other than experimentally, though.  You may be able to change the
color back, but you can't rebuild what has been broken down.)

Emma

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 18:16:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMGFHP006963
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:16:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMFaUw017364
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:15:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMFYTr023853;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:15:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta04ps.bigpond.com (mta04ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.158])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMEfTr023127
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:14:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.87]) by mta04ps.email.bigpond.com
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with SMTP id <0HGA000BGDREIZ@mta04ps.email.bigpond.com> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:14:03 +1000 (EST)
Received: from 144.139.223.235 ([144.139.223.235])
 by psmam07.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 119/10843515); Wed,
 11 Jun 2003 08:13:57 +0000
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:12:58 +1000
From: Claire Clarke <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
 <3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Melanie Schuessler" <melanie@faucet.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait


> Greetings to all,
> 
> I'm looking for a color version of this portrait
> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg
> 
> Somehow I think I've seen one, perhaps in my own library, as I have this 
> vague notion that the stomacher is gold under the pearls.
> 
I think it's in 'AVisual History of Costume in the 16th Century',
but I wouldn't swear to it. 

Claire
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 18:17:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMHsHP006969
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:17:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMHNUw017523
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:17:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMHLTr025096;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:17:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5AMHHTr024963
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:17:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.87]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55)
          with SMTP id HGADWM00.44K for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun
          2003 08:17:10 +1000 
Received: from 144.139.223.235 ([144.139.223.235]) by
	psmam07.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 119/10848363); 11 Jun 2003 08:17:06
Message-ID: <003301c3851b$0d3a94a0$ebdf8b90@clarke>
From: "Claire Clarke" <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000701c32f62$78a3b140$751027d9@dan>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:16:06 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:10 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls


> Hi all,
>
> I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined
> pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather
> puzzling.
>
> The one attributed to 'H':
>
> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg
>
>
> seems to show black fabric,
>
> but a different portrait at
>
> http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg
>
> seems to be a bright red.
>
> Can anyone enlighten me, please?
>
Maybe it was one cloak but the black/red started to wear away so he
had it replaced with red/black. Or maybe the fashion for colours changed
(the black cloak portrait does look like a later style to me and red was
popular
earlier in ERs reign), so perhaps he really liked it and changed the fabric
so he
could still wear it and be trendy.

Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 20:19:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B0JiHP007465
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:19:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B0I2Uw000130
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:18:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B0Hvu1010811;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:17:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B0Hru2010764
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:17:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5B0I9kJ020269
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:18:09 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5B0I9Wj020267
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:18:09 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:18:08 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <000701c32f62$78a3b140$751027d9@dan>
In-Reply-To: <000701c32f62$78a3b140$751027d9@dan>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306102018.08780.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5B0Hru2010764
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Tuesday 10 June 2003 11:10 am, Stevie Gamble wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined
> pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather
> puzzling.
>
> The one attributed to 'H':
>
> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg
>
>
> seems to show black fabric,
>
> but a different portrait at
>
> http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg
>
> seems to be a bright red.
>
> Can anyone enlighten me, please?

Without seeing the original of either painting, it's hard to say.  My best 
guess would be that the cape is actually a dark red, and the color values are 
off in different directions in the two portraits.

(It does seem unlikely that Raleigh had, and was depicted in, two cloaks of 
different colors studded with pearls in the same pattern.)  :-)


-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 20:53:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B0rhHP007520
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:53:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B0rBUw003034
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:53:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B0r9u1028790;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:53:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5B0r7u1028720
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:53:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWozOSZi1wqAuh7RmoVTZrs08C3H7FqnjqQ==">; Tue, 10 Jun 2003
	17:52:12 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2CUMRXQ; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:52:12 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:48:03 -0400
Message-ID: <20030610.204803.-236219.3.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-7
From: catpurson@juno.com
Subject: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

        I don't do men's garb often and haven't even seriously though
about Elizabethan men's garb.  Now a friend's son wants to do Elizabethan
and they have borrowed my Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion.  However,
he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy
pants but with very tall boots.  Can anyone point me to a picture that
fits that?  Thanks

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 21:14:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1E4HP007574
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:14:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1DYUw004316
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:13:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1DXEj008202;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:13:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1DVEj008154
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:13:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1f1.aa49c2f (4246)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:13:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <1f1.aa49c2f.2c17dc2f@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:13:19 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/10/2003 9:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
catpurson@juno.com writes:


> However,
> he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy
> pants but with very tall boots. 

Well, tall boots are in and trunk hose [poofy pants] are also in so I would 
think they were worn together.

I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this combo 
though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a military-esque 
outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate later than 
Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not Elizabethan.

Anyway.... A book you might look for in your local library is "The English 
Icon"...lots and lots of portraits...several full length.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 21:50:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1ojHP007673
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:50:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1oDUw006880
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:50:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1oCEj025233;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:50:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1oAEj025215
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:50:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Pukb-0005VD-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:50:09 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:50:11 -0700
Message-ID: <000f01c32fbb$cbc5bef0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <1f1.aa49c2f.2c17dc2f@aol.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yes I do believe I have seen that...just trying to remember where.  It
is of a man in a very tall hat (almost pilgrim like) sitting under a
tree.  I think he has Venetians on but they are poofy.  I will try to
hunt it down.

Sg



~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com
~Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:13 PM
~To: h-costume@indra.com
~Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
~
~In a message dated 6/10/2003 9:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
~catpurson@juno.com writes:
~
~
~> However,
~> he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy
~> pants but with very tall boots.
~
~Well, tall boots are in and trunk hose [poofy pants] are also in so I
would
~think they were worn together.
~
~I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this
combo
~though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a
military-esque
~outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate
later than
~Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not Elizabethan.
~
~Anyway.... A book you might look for in your local library is "The
English
~Icon"...lots and lots of portraits...several full length.
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 21:56:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1uRHP007683
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:56:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1tqUw007335
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:55:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1tnjX027883;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:55:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1tljX027860
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:55:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-022scfairp0099.dialsprint.net ([65.179.32.99]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Puq2-0005Md-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:55:46 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE699C1.6070204@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:53:53 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net> <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> From: "Melanie Schuessler" <melanie@faucet.net>
>>
>>I'm looking for a color version of this portrait
>>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg

Claire Clarke wrote:
>
> I think it's in 'AVisual History of Costume in the 16th Century',
> but I wouldn't swear to it. 

It is, but it's in black and white.

Thanks, though.

Melanie

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 21:57:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1vRHP007693
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:57:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1uuUw007426
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:56:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1utjX028373;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:56:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B1urjX028357
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:56:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Pur3-0007K4-00; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:56:49 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:56:46 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c32fbc$ba4420d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
cc: Cayres1955@aol.com
cc: "'Heather Heroldt'" <heatherheroldt@msn.com>
Subject: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

All these dress diaries have inspired me to do one.  I have really
enjoyed reading all of yours.  I have posted one on an 8th century tunic
I am making for a friend.  Now that I have written the diary, it sounds
boring..maybe I a have just read it too many times.  
 
http://www.saragrace.net/5A_tunic_tales.html
 
P.S. I have taken the rest of my site down for maintenance...so don't
look for anything other than the links on the one page.
 
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 10 22:09:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B29jHP007760
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:09:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B29GUw008424
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:09:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B29FjX004320;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:09:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B27PjX003391
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:07:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-022scfairp0099.dialsprint.net ([65.179.32.99]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Pv1I-0007BH-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:07:25 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE69C7C.6030108@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:05:32 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
References: <20030610.204803.-236219.3.catpurson@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

catpurson@juno.com wrote:
>         I don't do men's garb often and haven't even seriously though
> about Elizabethan men's garb.  Now a friend's son wants to do Elizabethan
> and they have borrowed my Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion.  However,
> he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy
> pants but with very tall boots.  Can anyone point me to a picture that
> fits that?  Thanks

Well, it's the later version of poofy, but there's the Unknown Man by 
Isaac Oliver--he's fig. 140 in Visual History of Costume: the Sixteenth 
Century.  He's sitting at the base of a tree and wearing trunk hose with 
matching canions and tight black boots that come up over his knees.  I 
can't find it online, sorry, but if you can find a book about 
Elizabethan miniatures, it will be in there.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 00:09:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B49MHP008016
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:09:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B48qUw017928
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:08:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B48oHx001715;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:08:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B48lHx001670
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:08:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a227.in-tch.com [66.62.107.27])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5B3o5j29638
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:50:05 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE6ABAD.A04D7D95@in-tch.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:10:21 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
References: <000f01c32fbb$cbc5bef0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I think I know that one.  Isn't it by Isaac Oliver?
--sue

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Yes I do believe I have seen that...just trying to remember where.  It
> is of a man in a very tall hat (almost pilgrim like) sitting under a
> tree.  I think he has Venetians on but they are poofy.  I will try to
> hunt it down.
> 
> Sg
> 
> ~-----Original Message-----
> ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
> On
> ~Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com
> ~Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:13 PM
> ~To: h-costume@indra.com
> ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
> ~
> ~In a message dated 6/10/2003 9:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> ~catpurson@juno.com writes:
> ~
> ~
> ~> However,
> ~> he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy
> ~> pants but with very tall boots.
> ~
> ~Well, tall boots are in and trunk hose [poofy pants] are also in so I
> would
> ~think they were worn together.
> ~
> ~I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this
> combo
> ~though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a
> military-esque
> ~outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate
> later than
> ~Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not Elizabethan.
> ~
> ~Anyway.... A book you might look for in your local library is "The
> English
> ~Icon"...lots and lots of portraits...several full length.
> ~_______________________________________________
> ~h-costume mailing list
> ~h-costume@mail.indra.com
> ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 00:09:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B49vHP008019
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:09:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B46ZUw017751
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:06:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B46VHx000735;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:06:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B46THx000668
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:06:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a227.in-tch.com [66.62.107.27])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5B3llj28730
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:47:47 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EE6AB22.35E91E35@in-tch.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:08:02 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
References: <000701c32f62$78a3b140$751027d9@dan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm not much for enlightening on this one, but I can always add to the
confusion!
I've always loved that cape (pearls rock!), but have never seen that
second portrait.  I'd being going "huh?", too.
There are difference in the styles of clothing (other than the cape)
that Raleigh's wearing...perhaps a time difference?, and the color in
the portrait has been "updated" to be more stylish?
Perhaps one painting is a sort of duplicate of the other?, in the way
that some portraits were copied/recopied.  The red could be an error or
an artist's interpretation.
--sue


Stevie Gamble wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined
> pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather
> puzzling.
> 
> The one attributed to 'H':
> 
> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg
> 
> seems to show black fabric,
> 
> but a different portrait at
> 
> http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg
> 
> seems to be a bright red.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me, please?
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 00:30:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4UaHP008060
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:30:36 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4TwUw019648
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:29:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4TtHx012226;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:29:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4TqHx012164
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:29:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-168.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
	[67.116.239.168])h5B4TebK009164
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:29:50 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030610211522.00d52c30@mail.frys.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:16:18 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
In-Reply-To: <20030610.103105.-107428457.1.Seamstrix@juno.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

And I have seen possibly as many as ten different versions of Elizabeth I 
in that big white dress in the Ditchley Portrait.

>While I have no definitive answer for you, I think I may be able to shed
>some light on this issue. The answer is that they are both correct.
>Although they appear to be the same cloak, it could be that Sweet Sir
>Walter liked the design so much that he had two cloaks made with much the
>same pattern. Or it could be that he had one cloak that was either red or
>black but told the painter to change the color scheme to suite the rest
>of the outfit in the picture. Or it could be that the black and white
>portrait is the true picture and another artist used it as the basis for
>the red portrait but changed the color scheme to suit what he wanted the
>picture to look like. Or the cloak could be completely imaginary and
>never really existed at all. In Janet Arnold's book 'Historic Costume'
>she has reproductions of 3 portraits of Jane Seymour all of which seem to
>be the same dress, but which have very noticable differences in the
>design. Her conclusion was that they were all correct and usable as
>documentation because they were all period variations on the same style
>and there was no way to prove which one was the absolutely correct one.
>Since both versions of Raleigh's cloak were done in period, there is no
>way to prove which one is the correct one, so they must both be
>considered as equally valid as they both express the period aesthetic. If
>you want to reproduce a version of the cloak, go for it- and choose your
>color scheme to suit yourself.
>
>Karen
>
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100 "Stevie Gamble"
><stevie.gamble@btinternet.com> writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur
> > lined pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather
> > puzzling.
> >
> > The one attributed to 'H':
> >
> > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg
> >
> >
> > seems to show black fabric,
> >
> > but a different portrait at
> >
> > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg
> >
> > seems to be a bright red.
> >
> > Can anyone enlighten me, please?
> >
> > best wishes
> > Stevie
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >
>
>________________________________________________________________
>The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
>Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 00:30:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4UiHP008063
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:30:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4UFUw019687
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:30:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4UFHx012423;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:30:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B4TrHx012183
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:29:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-116-239-168.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
	[67.116.239.168])h5B4TebM009164
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:29:52 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030610211816.05291890@mail.frys.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:18:49 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait
In-Reply-To: <3EE699C1.6070204@faucet.net>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
 <3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net>
 <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>>>I'm looking for a color version of this portrait
>>>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg
>
>Claire Clarke wrote:
>>
>>I think it's in 'AVisual History of Costume in the 16th Century',
>>but I wouldn't swear to it.
>
>It is, but it's in black and white.

It's in b/w in Digby's Elizabedthan Embroidery book too.


        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 04:00:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B80IHP022702
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:00:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B7wbUw003562
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 01:58:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B7wZJa010186;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 01:58:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5B7wVJa010145
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 01:58:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by
	mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h5B7wTp21024.; Wed, 11 Jun
	2003 08:58:29 +0100 (BST)
Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk
	with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:58:29 +0100
Message-Id: <see6ef35.039@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:57:59 +0100
From: "Kate M Bunting" <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

AlbertCat wrote:

>>>I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this
combo 
>though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a
military-esque 
>outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate
later >than Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not
>Elizabethan.

And the breeches of Van Dyck's time, although full, reach to below the
knee, though if the boots are pulled right up over them they might look
a bit like trunk-hose.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 06:31:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BAVtHP011452
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:31:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BATFUw012318
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:29:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BATCql002884;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:29:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BAT6ql002764
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:29:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11218
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:29:05 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-156-88-137.asm.bellsouth.net [66.156.88.137])
	by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA02564
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:29:05 -0400
Message-ID: <003c01c33003$cf89b710$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030610.204803.-236219.3.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:25:41 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Here is one, but I know I have seen a better one where the boots go all the
way up. I believe the thigh boots with the "pumpkin pants" was a Spanish
style. I will look more when I return home this evening.

http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/15xx_5.shtml

----- Original Message -----
From: <catpurson@juno.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:48 PM
Subject: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb


>         I don't do men's garb often and haven't even seriously though
> about Elizabethan men's garb.  Now a friend's son wants to do Elizabethan
> and they have borrowed my Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion.  However,
> he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy
> pants but with very tall boots.  Can anyone point me to a picture that
> fits that?  Thanks
>
> Lalah
> Never give up, Never surrender
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 07:01:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BB1XHP011529
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:01:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BAxsUw014351
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:59:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BAxogw015166;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:59:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BAxkgw015053
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:59:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C4B19FD1A
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:59:40 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:02:30 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

I've updatet my partlet site
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html

And I have a smal question.
I would like to attach a ruff to the partlet but I am not sure aboud the 
lace.
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet10.jpg
I have two types of lace but I don't know wich one to use.
The problem I have is that the fabrick is off white and the lace is white.
I only have a few day's to finish the partlet.

Greetings,
        Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 07:55:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BBtHHP011732
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:55:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BBpaUw018249
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 05:51:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BBpYgw007462;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 05:51:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BBpVgw007388
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 05:51:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.bd.33246f5c (4552)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:51:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <bd.33246f5c.2c1871b4@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:51:16 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/11/2003 6:00:38 AM Central Standard Time, 
triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:

> I've updatet my partlet site
> <A HREF="http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html">http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html</A>
> 


Wow, that's so pretty! Damn, you're good.

> And I have a smal question.
> I would like to attach a ruff to the partlet but I am not sure aboud the 
> lace.
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet10.jpg
> I have two types of lace but I don't know wich one to use.
> The problem I have is that the fabrick is off white and the lace is white.
> I only have a few day's to finish the partlet.
> 
You could stick the lace in a pantyhose leg and run it through a small load 
with a tiny bit of ecru dye, like a tablespoon or less. Just to take the optic 
off your white.



-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 09:20:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDKlHP011906
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:20:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDJ5Uw024217
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:19:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDJ3sD016767;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:19:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5BDIxsD016642
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:19:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCrN6y/k5DH42ziielfUnmFh4MD4LfM+COQ==">; Wed, 11 Jun 2003
	09:18:34 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2D7CE27; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:18:34 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:47:16 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
Message-ID: <20030611.074716.-252266617.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-10
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Your partlet is going to be amazing when it's done! It's pretty amazing
looking now! As for the lace, I think that the wider lace would be better
just because there will be so much pattern in the body of the partlet
that the narrower lace would just fade away. I think that the idea of
running the lace thru a mild dye bath just to take the 'edge' off of the
whiteness will probably be enough. I'm sure that, in period, everything
didn't match absolutely perfectly. I can't wait to see you wearing the
finished piece!



Karen

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 09:51:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDp5HP012242
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:51:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDnRUw026991
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:49:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDnQsD002616;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:49:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDnMsD002597
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:49:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-034scfairp0207.dialsprint.net ([168.192.88.207]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Q5yb-0000VO-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:49:22 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:47:28 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> I've updatet my partlet site
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html

Looks fabulous!

> And I have a smal question.
> I would like to attach a ruff to the partlet but I am not sure aboud the 
> lace.
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet10.jpg
> I have two types of lace but I don't know wich one to use.

Will you be starching the ruff?  If you use the wider lace, I would set 
it back from the edge of the ruff fabric so that only a little of it 
sticks off the edge.  As in this picture: 
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partletdetail.jpg
Most examples of this kind of partlet have a very narrow ruff, and the 
big laces (with the whole width of the lace suspended by starch on the 
edge of the ruff) weren't really popular until later.

Can't wait to see it!

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 09:52:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDqwHP012246
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:52:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDpGUw027143
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:51:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDpGsD003488;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:51:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BDpDsD003454
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:51:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-034scfairp0207.dialsprint.net ([168.192.88.207]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Q60O-0002nL-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:51:13 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE7416F.4030400@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:49:19 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net> <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
	<4.3.1.2.20030610211816.05291890@mail.frys.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Melanie Schuessler wrote:
> 
>>>> I'm looking for a color version of this portrait
>>>> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg

Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
> 
> It's in b/w in Digby's Elizabedthan Embroidery book too.

Yes, that's where I first found it.  I need a color version.

Melanie

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 10:13:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEDXHP012291
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:13:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BECtUw029000
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:12:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BECrPq014806;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:12:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from blackmagic (dsl092-160-084.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.160.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BECnPq014707
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:12:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from blackmagic (blackmagic [127.0.0.1])
	by blackmagic (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027924C33D
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:10:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrea Gideon <andrea@gideonfamily.org>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:10:17 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl>
In-Reply-To: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306111010.17803.andrea@gideonfamily.org>
Subject: [h-cost] ISO mid 1600's pics
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm looking for picutres of middle class women in England from about 
1640-1655.  I have found lots of wealthy women but not middle class or 
working women.  Thanks!
Andrea
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 10:19:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEJ7HP012300
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:19:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEIXUw029776
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:18:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEIWPq018167;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:18:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEITPq018096
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:18:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10EC19FDAC
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:18:23 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE73AD6.9000906@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:21:10 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
> Looks fabulous! 


Thanks!!

>
>
> Will you be starching the ruff?  If you use the wider lace, I would 
> set it back from the edge of the ruff fabric so that only a little of 
> it sticks off the edge.  As in this picture: 
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partletdetail.jpg
> Most examples of this kind of partlet have a very narrow ruff, and the 
> big laces (with the whole width of the lace suspended by starch on the 
> edge of the ruff) weren't really popular until later. 

If I use a strip of linnen folded in half and sew the small lace on the 
folded edge would that be better?
I don't want to starch the ruff. I tried the spray starch but I am 
allergic to it.
To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the pearls.

Greetings,
        Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 10:27:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BERbHP012320
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:27:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEP5Uw000486
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:25:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEP3Pq022041;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:25:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEP0Pq021998
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:25:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-034scfairp0207.dialsprint.net ([168.192.88.207]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Q6X5-00077f-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:25:00 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE74959.4070506@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:23:05 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO mid 1600's pics
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl>
	<200306111010.17803.andrea@gideonfamily.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Andrea Gideon wrote:
> I'm looking for picutres of middle class women in England from about 
> 1640-1655.  I have found lots of wealthy women but not middle class or 
> working women.  Thanks!

Upon a quick survey, I can't find anything for England.  If France is 
close enough, check out Louis Le Nain.

Though most of his people look high-class, Georges de La Tour has at 
least one lower class person as well (in his Hurdy-Gurdy Player).  It's 
a little earlier than you want, though.

Of course there's TONS of stuff from the Netherlands, but that's 
probably too far afield.

Good luck,
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 10:30:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEUbHP012347
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:30:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEU5Uw000976
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:30:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEU4Pq025648;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:30:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEU1Pq025622
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:30:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-034scfairp0207.dialsprint.net ([168.192.88.207]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Q6bw-00065a-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:30:01 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE74A86.3080705@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:28:06 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net>
	<3EE73AD6.9000906@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> If I use a strip of linnen folded in half and sew the small lace on the 
> folded edge would that be better?

I think either lace would be fine as long as you only have a little bit 
hanging off the edge.

> I don't want to starch the ruff. I tried the spray starch but I am 
> allergic to it.

I understand if you don't want to starch it, but you don't have to use 
spray starch.  There are instructions here
http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html
for starching--obviously, I'm a fan of it!

 > To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the 
pearls.

Which pearls?  I'm not sure I understand--will there be pearls on the 
ruff as well?

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 10:32:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEWNHP012360
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:32:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEVkUw001171
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:31:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEVjPq026599;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:31:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net
	[66.136.30.169])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEVgPq026553
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:31:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web.antekhou.com [192.168.0.250] by web.antekhou.com
  (SMTPD32-8.00) id AD4D2031E; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:31:41 -0500
Received: From 74w0d01 ([65.45.18.250]) by web.antekhou.com (WebShield SMTP
	v4.5 MR1a);	id 1055341900319; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:31:40 -0500
Message-ID: <00d501c33022$4137c0a0$0764a8c0@algx>
From: "Cyn Bucheger" <cbucheger@paclp.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net>
	<3EE73AD6.9000906@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:03:29 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I've recently had good results with using cartridge pleats sewn to the
collar at the mid point for a ruff that stands straight out from the neck.
I've done it in a light weight but pretty crisp silk and also with a heavier
linen.  Neither one has been starched.

Cyn

> If I use a strip of linnen folded in half and sew the small lace on the
> folded edge would that be better?
> I don't want to starch the ruff. I tried the spray starch but I am
> allergic to it.
> To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the pearls.
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 10:39:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEdKHP012378
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:39:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEcnUw002055
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:38:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEcmPq001154;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:38:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEcjPq001126
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:38:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f3a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.58])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C026E262C10
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:38:43 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000f01c33027$28623b50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:38:43 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] middle class Elizabethan
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Sarra Wryght.
I am very sorry that i am much two late with this, but i went to your site:
http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/midclass.html 

And i enjoyed to watch your middle class dress very mutch.
You did a fantastic job here! congratulations

Bjarne




Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 10:43:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEhCHP012393
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:43:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEgiUw002466
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:42:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEghPq003371;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:42:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEgePq003334
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:42:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f3a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.58])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4152F2629BC
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:42:39 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001901c33027$b556faa0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:42:39 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] burgundian orange dress
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Michaela.
I also must apologise for my late sneaking wiew on your orange burgundian
dress.
I love the way you have made your website, very nice!
Interresting to see such old fashions, very nice!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 11:04:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BF43HP012466
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:04:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BF3YUw005376
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:03:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BF3TKx017547;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:03:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BF3NKx017349
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:03:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C101119FF6D
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:03:17 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE7455C.1060705@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:06:04 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net>
	<3EE73AD6.9000906@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74A86.3080705@faucet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
>
> > To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the 
> pearls.
>
> Which pearls?  I'm not sure I understand--will there be pearls on the 
> ruff as well? 


I mean the pearls on the neck part of the collar.
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg
The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of 
metal wire it would just collapse.
I don't think starch will be strong enough and I am not sure what it 
will do to the puffy silk bits.

Greetings,
        Deredere

>
>
> Melanie Schuessler
> http://www.faucet.net/costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 11:16:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BFGoHP012493
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:16:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BFGHUw006835
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:16:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BFGFKx025883;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:16:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BFGCKx025853
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:16:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Q7KZ-0006KX-00; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:16:07 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:16:08 -0700
Message-ID: <000501c3302c$62fbf6c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
cc: "'Heather Heroldt'" <heatherheroldt@msn.com>
Subject: [h-cost] Is the Internet slow today for you?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Is the Internet a dog for everyone else this morning?  I am getting a
lot of 'server cannot be found' messages.  I have high-speed wireless
and I feel like I am on dial-up from 10 years ago.  
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 12:07:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BG7cHP012639
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:07:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEiuUw002760
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:44:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEisPq004628;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:44:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BEipPq004584
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:44:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f3a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.58])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 56F36262990
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:44:50 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <002101c33028$038fb2c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:44:51 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] Tunic
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Saragrace!
Very very nice work you have done here:
http://www.saragrace.net/5A_tunic_tales.html

That is a wonderfull ribbon you got there, it fits perfect for a tunic.
Love your diary!

Bjarne 




Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 12:20:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGKAHP012664
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:20:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGJbUw014338
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:19:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGJZnq011294;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:19:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5BGJUnq011157
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:19:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtocjgvVRe1V18oa0wBDito6c8J1VdSviw==">; Wed, 11 Jun 2003
	09:18:56 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2EHNN5G; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:18:56 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:03:05 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb
Message-ID: <20030611.120305.-259565.3.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-7
From: catpurson@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

        Thanks for the help.  If anyone comes up with any other pictures,
I would really appreciate it.  This guy wants to do something absolutely
period so he can enter it in a competition.  He has done several outfits
from the 17th century and they are great so I know he can do it. 
Actually, he designs the garb and his grandmother sews it.  They are
quite a team!  Thanks again.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 12:32:54 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGWsHP012701
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:32:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGViUw016062
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:31:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGVhnq020516;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:31:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5BGVdnq020463
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:31:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 31993 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2003 16:31:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50)
  by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2003 16:31:38 -0000
Received: from 162.119.64.111
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com)
        by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP;
        Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <33665.162.119.64.111.1055349098.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary
From: <dch@inreach.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EE699C1.6070204@faucet.net>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
        <3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net>
        <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
        <3EE699C1.6070204@faucet.net>
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> All these dress diaries have inspired me to do one.  I have really
> enjoyed reading all of yours.  I have posted one on an 8th century tunic
> I am making for a friend.  Now that I have written the diary, it sounds
> boring..maybe I a have just read it too many times.

Saragrace,

The design is nice.  How much was the trim?  It is beautiful!  And I agree
that your linen color brings out the trim very nicely :~>

I am wondering if you chose the piping because of the look it creates or
because it is period for that time.  I honestly don't know when piping
came into use.  I know that it gives a very nice, finished look but I
didn't think that it was used before the Renaissance.

Thanks for sharing your "diary"!

Diana


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 12:44:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGitHP012732
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:44:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGiGUw017564
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:44:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGi9nq029545;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:44:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BGhxnq029400
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:43:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0171.dialsprint.net ([63.184.192.171]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Q8ha-0003U9-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:43:58 -0700
Message-ID: <3EE769EB.4030600@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:42:03 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net>
	<3EE73AD6.9000906@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74A86.3080705@faucet.net>
	<3EE7455C.1060705@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere Galbraith wrote:
>> 
> 
> I mean the pearls on the neck part of the collar.
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg
> The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of 
> metal wire it would just collapse.
> I don't think starch will be strong enough and I am not sure what it 
> will do to the puffy silk bits.

Ahh.  Well if I were doing it, I would underline the collar with 
something stiff (perhaps a linen canvas?) to hold it all up.  Wire may 
also work, though sometimes a network of wire can go in directions you 
didn't intend, and you have to be careful where you put the ends.

The starch doesn't go on the collar--just on the ruff.

Good luck,
Melanie

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 13:54:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BHsuHP012926
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:54:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BHrSUw025958
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:53:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BHrN5L024827;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:53:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com
	[194.73.73.111])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BHrG5L024749
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:53:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host217-39-6-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.6.14]
	helo=dan)	by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23)
	id 19Q9mc-0001IV-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:53:15 +0100
Message-ID: <002801c33042$4dfce520$0e0627d9@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl>
	<3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net><3EE73AD6.9000906@kabelfoon.nl>
	<3EE74A86.3080705@faucet.net> <3EE7455C.1060705@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:53:02 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere wrote:

> > > To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough
the
> > pearls on the neck part of the collar.

> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg

> The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of
> metal wire it would just collapse.

It does depend on what metal you choose. You might like to consider
using a good quality stainless steel wire, rather than say gold or
silver plate over a copper core. It's tougher, and seems to discolour
less than copper based alternatives. And you do gain something on the
weight side since you can use narrower wire.
But whatever choice you make I'm sure that you will be lovely!

best wishes
Stevie


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 14:02:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BI2OHP012955
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:02:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BHxgUw026582
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:59:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BHxgfH029552;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:59:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BHw0fH028428
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:58:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Q9rD-0005YD-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:57:59 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:57:55 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c33042$fe757070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <33665.162.119.64.111.1055349098.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~The design is nice.  How much was the trim? 
[Sg:] It is ~ $20/yard and comes in several different combinations of
color.

~I am wondering if you chose the piping because of the look it creates
or
~because it is period for that time.  

[Sg:] I chose the piping mostly because I wanted to add something to the
garment which would make it more interesting for me to make-I get bored
very easily!  But also just for the look. I haven't done much research
into the textiles of the time.  I don't know when it came into use
either.

Glad you all enjoyed it!


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 14:45:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BIjRHP013065
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:45:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BIhbUw001684
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:43:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BIhZ28002046;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:43:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BIhV28001999
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:43:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe9.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.233])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B164262A8A
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:43:29 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <003101c33049$60ce1410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:43:40 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Deredere,
If i were you, absolutely wonderfull work you have done here, outstanding
beautifull!, i would use that plastic boning, called wedding bone. You can
get some wich is only 3 mm. wide, and you just cut it with a scissor,
because it is soft. Then make some small bone casings in the linning collar,
this would do the job very nicely, and you dont have to be afraid of cutting
yourself with the ends!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 15:09:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJ9OHP013135
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:09:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJ8WUw004373
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:08:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJ8UpQ020518;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:08:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJ8SpQ020422
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:08:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54B81A0058
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:08:22 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE77ED0.2070200@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:11:12 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar
References: <003101c33049$60ce1410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

That is a brilliant idea!! I still have some of that stuf laying around 
somewere :-) .

Thanks,
        Deredere

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

>Dear Deredere,
>If i were you, absolutely wonderfull work you have done here, outstanding
>beautifull!, i would use that plastic boning, called wedding bone. You can
>get some wich is only 3 mm. wide, and you just cut it with a scissor,
>because it is soft. Then make some small bone casings in the linning collar,
>this would do the job very nicely, and you dont have to be afraid of cutting
>yourself with the ends!
>
>Bjarne
>
>
>
>
>
>Leif og Bjarne Drews
>www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 15:29:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJT7HP013168
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:29:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJRsUw006571
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:27:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJRrpQ005399;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:27:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJRnpQ005299
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:27:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9613B19FBC2
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:27:43 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE78359.6000504@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:30:33 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , Weight
References: <003101c33049$60ce1410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE77ED0.2070200@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Ieek!

Only the collar piece weights aboud 80 gram!!
And it is not even lined!
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet11.jpg
I don't know heavy an original partlet would be, All those jewels with 
small stones and pearls.

Greetings,
        Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 15:40:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJeZHP013200
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:40:36 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJcmUw007815
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:38:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJcjpQ014158;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:38:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BJcZpQ014011
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:38:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe9.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.233])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A3C447FF21
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:38:34 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000901c33051$14bdc090$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<003101c33049$60ce1410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><3EE77ED0.2070200@kabelfoon.nl>
	<3EE78359.6000504@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , Weight
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:38:48 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere,
 dont despair, use many bones, one for each pattern repeat, this should keep
it up!
I am sure it will!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deredere Galbraith" <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , Weight


> Ieek!
>
> Only the collar piece weights aboud 80 gram!!
> And it is not even lined!
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet11.jpg
> I don't know heavy an original partlet would be, All those jewels with
> small stones and pearls.
>
> Greetings,
>         Deredere
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 16:37:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKbpHP013382
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:37:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKbJUw014818
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:37:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKbCG7026861;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:37:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKb9G7026783
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:37:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.12a.2be52ecd (4116)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <12a.2be52ecd.2c18ece7@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:36:55 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/11/2003 2:53:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


> If i were you, absolutely wonderfull work you have done here, outstanding
> beautifull!, i would use that plastic boning, called wedding bone. 

There's also fishing line. I mean it comes in very heavy gauges and can be 
used to almost invisibly support something that's not too heavy. They used it a 
lot on a show I worked in the 18th century millinery....making lace stand and 
such.

I lost the address to your site. Could you re-post it. Thanx
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 16:58:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKw1HP013455
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:58:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKvOUw017309
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:57:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKvFHN011870;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:57:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BKvAHN011666
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:57:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79AC1BEBCE
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:57:04 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EE79849.5040805@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:59:53 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar
References: <12a.2be52ecd.2c18ece7@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
>
>There's also fishing line. I mean it comes in very heavy gauges and can be 
>used to almost invisibly support something that's not too heavy. They used it a 
>lot on a show I worked in the 18th century millinery....making lace stand and 
>such.
>  
>
I think this will be much too heavy for fishing line. I  think I will 
use the plastic boning. and the sew in boning or what ever you call it.
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partletboning.jpg

>I lost the address to your site. Could you re-post it. Thanx
>
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html

http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/

Greetings,
        Deredere



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 18:27:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BMRuHP013822
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:27:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BMQiUw027362
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:26:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BMQet1018160;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:26:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5BMQbt1018114
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:26:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGC007WI90AQ1@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:26:35 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:14:24 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question
In-reply-to: <3EE7455C.1060705@kabelfoon.nl>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030611150409.00af7f58@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <3EE70C46.3060604@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74100.8090508@faucet.net>
 <3EE73AD6.9000906@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE74A86.3080705@faucet.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 05:06 PM 6/11/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>I mean the pearls on the neck part of the collar.
>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg
>The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of metal 
>wire it would just collapse.
>I don't think starch will be strong enough and I am not sure what it will 
>do to the puffy silk bits.
>
>Greetings,
>        Deredere


I love the progress you are making with this partlet. It is fantastic!

May I suggest underlining the collar of the partlet with an interfacing, 
such as a tailor's goathair/wool interfacing, and hand padstitching the 
area. I just learned this technique and used it on a doublet collar, and it 
helped it to stand up and away from the neck rather nicely. The lining 
hides all the stitches inside, and the small stitches on the outside should 
be hidden by the pouffy material. However, the doublet didn't have the 
weight of the pearls and jewels added on. Maybe padstitching along with 
some boning might work well together.

And my suggestion on the lace is the larger version. To me, this is a bold 
partlet and the larger lace seems to support the boldness of it all. The 
smaller lace might be lost in the whole thing.

Just a couple of thoughts. I can't wait to see how this all turns out!

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 23:02:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C32EHP014520
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:02:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C30RUw019505
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:00:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C30PIH012291;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:00:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C30JIH012247
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:00:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-69.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.69])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594FF1F8B4
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:47:54 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EE7FB6F.6090008@grics.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:02:55 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <003101c33049$60ce1410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE77ED0.2070200@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE78359.6000504@kabelfoon.nl>
In-Reply-To: <3EE78359.6000504@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] (Way OT Sorry!) Why can't my puter find this???
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I am sure I have looked at Deredere's partlet before!  Am i doing 
something really dumb?

Edwinna

Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> Ieek!
>
> Only the collar piece weights aboud 80 gram!!
> And it is not even lined!
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet11.jpg
> I don't know heavy an original partlet would be, All those jewels with 
> small stones and pearls.
>
> Greetings,
>        Deredere
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 23:53:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C3rdHP014832
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:53:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C3r8Uw023314
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:53:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C3r3IH007405;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:53:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net
	(smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.156])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5C3r0IH007361
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:53:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 12904 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2003 03:52:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (208.27.190.47)
  by smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 2003 03:52:58 -0000
Message-ID: <3EE7F946.2060408@inetone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:53:42 -0400
From: Dhannti <dychap@inetone.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] (Way OT Sorry!) Why can't my puter find this???
References: <003101c33049$60ce1410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE77ED0.2070200@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE78359.6000504@kabelfoon.nl>
	<3EE7FB6F.6090008@grics.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

H. Law wrote:
> I am sure I have looked at Deredere's partlet before!  Am i doing 
> something really dumb?
> 
> Edwinna


Don't feel bad,  I can't see it either. I am told server is not found.

Di

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 11 23:59:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C3xuHP014873
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:59:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C3wLUw023627
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:58:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C3wK1h009973;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:58:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C3wG1h009942
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:58:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-69.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.69])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 418B81F8D4
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:45:52 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EE80904.8000605@grics.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:00:52 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000501c3302c$62fbf6c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
In-Reply-To: <000501c3302c$62fbf6c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] (OT) re Is the Internet slow today for you?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

YES!!  It's almost "tomorrow" right now and i had trouble all evening  
(didn't see your post til now.)  It seems to have improved now

Heather L

Saragrace Knauf wrote:

>Is the Internet a dog for everyone else this morning?  I am getting a
>lot of 'server cannot be found' messages.  I have high-speed wireless
>and I feel like I am on dial-up from 10 years ago.  
> 
>Sg
> 
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 00:10:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4AXHP014940
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:10:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4A3Uw024489
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:10:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4A21h015830;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:10:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster1.mebtel.net [64.40.67.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4A01h015814
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:10:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-69.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.69])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94EA1F98A
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:57:34 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EE80BC1.4080102@grics.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:12:33 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <003101c33049$60ce1410$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE77ED0.2070200@kabelfoon.nl> <3EE78359.6000504@kabelfoon.nl>
	<3EE7FB6F.6090008@grics.net> <3EE7F946.2060408@inetone.net>
In-Reply-To: <3EE7F946.2060408@inetone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Thanks (was Way OT Sorry!) Why can't my puter find this???
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Guess we can add "lag" to that list with death and taxes on it...

Heather L
"Edwinna" on guess which list :-P

Dhannti wrote:

> H. Law wrote:
>
>> I am sure I have looked at Deredere's partlet before!  Am i doing 
>> something really dumb?
>>
>> Edwinna
>
> Don't feel bad,  I can't see it either. I am told server is not found.
>
> Di
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 00:53:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4rhHP015068
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:53:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4rFUw027000
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:53:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4rE1h005068;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:53:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.mn.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4rC1h005049
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:53:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail2.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:53:10 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030611235551.033da0c0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:56:46 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt!  Help -- clothes suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <DIGJJMJHPLDDJFAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 03:39 PM 6/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Congratulations!
>
>Check out:
>http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm
>
>if the link dosen't work go to Drea's site www.costume.dm.net and click on 
>Breughel's Babies.
>
>This won't be much help for dressing a newborn, but is very useful for 
>when the kid is a few months old.  I'm using this article as a jumping off 
>point for the research on the clothes I'm making for my son Thomas(5 weeks 
>yesterday!) to wear this fall when he starts going to events.
>
>I'm not sure I agree with all of the author's conclusions regarding the 
>layers, but I need to do more research and find better reproductions of 
>the paintings.
>
>-Katie


Thanks, I already had Constance's stuff in mind. : )  However, my brother 
and his wife aren't in to any sort of reenactment so I will have to tone it 
down a bit.

Cheers,
Danielle

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 00:57:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4vuHP015097
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:57:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4uEUw027296
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:56:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4uEA1006598;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:56:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.mn.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4rC1h005048
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:53:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail2.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:53:10 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030611235504.033d8cc0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:55:31 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt!  Help -- clothes suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <008901c32e72$9e44bc00$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20030608220957.02f18a80@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 06:33 AM 6/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Congratulations! (And a sympathetic "Ouch!" to the mother, that's a BIG
>baby!)
>
>Cynthia Virtue made some adorable tunics and hoods for her twins. You might
>want to check her page for pictures.
>
>Dianne

Thanks!  I remember those pictures - great idea.  I will look into that.

Cheers,
Danielle

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 01:05:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C55VHP015141
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:05:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4xnUw027524
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:59:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4xmA1008108;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:59:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C4xiA1008082
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:59:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-69.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.69])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8F83B92B
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:59:36 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EE8175D.3030602@grics.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:02:05 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary
References: <000001c33042$fe757070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
In-Reply-To: <000001c33042$fe757070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yum those colors!  (on my screen, a reddish tone to the dusty plum and a 
sorta warm tone to all of it)
I *want* that trim (right, yeah) Where did you get it?

Looking forward to the finished product pix

H L

Saragrace Knauf wrote:

>~The design is nice.  How much was the trim? 
>[Sg:] It is ~ $20/yard and comes in several different combinations of
>color.
>
>~I am wondering if you chose the piping because of the look it creates
>or
>~because it is period for that time.  
>
>[Sg:] I chose the piping mostly because I wanted to add something to the
>garment which would make it more interesting for me to make-I get bored
>very easily!  But also just for the look. I haven't done much research
>into the textiles of the time.  I don't know when it came into use
>either.
>
>Glad you all enjoyed it!
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 01:13:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C5DNHP015156
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:13:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C5AZUw028212
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:10:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C5AYA1013095;
	Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:10:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail4.mn.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C5ATA1013042
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:10:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail4.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:09:14 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030611235225.032dc220@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:12:52 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EE699C1.6070204@faucet.net>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
 <3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net>
 <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Greetings,

I've recently become interested in a particular style of gown (the extant 
one I've seen is dated to the 1780s).  Ribiero only refers to it as a "Robe 
a la Anglais" (excuse the missing accents) however that seems to be a broad 
category of gowns from the 18th century.  Does anyone know of a more 
specific term for the gowns that have the inverted-v opening in the 
front?  The closest portrait I've found so far is:
http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_3.shtml or 
http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_2.shtml but they aren't quite 
right since the style of gown I'm thinking of has a well fitted bodice just 
open most of the front.  You get a better idea here - 
http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/fragonar/p-fragona4.htm  The bodice back seems to be 
usually cut en fourrere (sp?).  Does anyon know for sure?

Cheers,
Danielle

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 03:46:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C7kQHP022557
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:46:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C7jrUw008181
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:45:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C7jlc6019187;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:45:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5C7jhc6019157
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:45:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFCB22857A
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:38:26 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EE83E55.3080506@grics.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:48:21 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me
References: <001401c32ec1$d92aea20$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<200306092025.48486.cathy@thyrsus.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306092025.48486.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The link is split about halfway thru the line by yahoo.  It should go 
all the way across your whole screen. If this one (right below) gets 
split too maybe someone could email it to you?  (The enlargement's a 
pretty small pic

http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529

HL
Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:

>On Monday 09 June 2003 04:00 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
>  
>
>>http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11
>><http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&full=1&mark=0
>>&item=24%2E80%2E529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529
>>
>>This portrait was new to me and thought you all might enjoy it.
>>    
>>
>
>
>I'm confused.  Neither link identifies itself as being of a Moravian Woman.  
>One is titled "The Epiphany" (Picture to match) and one is titled "Madonna 
>and Child" (Picture to match)
>
>I do not see a portrait, let alone one of a Moravian female. :-)
>
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 09:35:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CDZBHP018950
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:35:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CDXKUw028653
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:33:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CDXI34008480;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:33:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CDXE34008367
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:33:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1c4.af302a3 (4246)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:33:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <1c4.af302a3.2c19db0c@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:33:00 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/11/2003 5:06:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:


>  think this will be much too heavy for fishing line.

I knew you were gonna say that. But you [like me before I saw it] would not 
believe how sturdy those really high tess lines are. Anyway....the boning will 
be practically the same thing.

Looks fantastic, BTW!...your parlet that is.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 10:39:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEd3HP019116
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:39:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEbCUw004406
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:37:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEb8vI016138;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:37:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEb4vI016078
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:37:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85])
	JAA20498
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:37:04 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <001501c330f0$4b512800$55c98693@creighton.edu>
From: "Cynthia Abel" <brujne@creighton.edu>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net> <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20030611235225.032dc220@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:38:30 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut of the
gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back, to a
pleated skirt, rather than the Robe de la francaise(also known to us as a
"Watteau gown" after the French painter who depicted many females in his
works in gowns of this style)that has loose, generous pleats from the
shoulders to hem. The RDLF is a decendant of the late 17c century, mantua,
which started as more casual wear, influenced loosely by Asian clothing, and
was fitted by pleating front and back to the wearer. The mantua eventually
evolved into more formal wear,(the manteau) and since women could make it
easily as it didn't require the physical strength to sew through fabric,
lining(s), boning, or infringe on male tailors, women were permitted to
become dressmakers or mantua-makers, after this gown.(Men made "pairs of
bodies, or stays--forerunners of the corset during this time--although I
suspect these were just the heavy-duty foundations for those that could
afford for others to make their clothing). The term persisted identifying a
female dressmaker, long after the mantua passed out of wear.  See Janet
Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion" Vol. 1 and "Revolution in Fashion" for scaled
patterns of the Robe de l'anglais.  Arnold's work also has patterns for a
mantua and at least one Robe de la francaise.

This info is just off the top of my head, so anyone jump in with more info
or corrections.

Cindy Abel

Cindy Abel


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 10:52:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEq7HP019133
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:52:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEoKUw005611
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:50:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEoJvI024351;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:50:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CEoFvI024275
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:50:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.179])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 21838262A5E
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:50:13 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <003b01c330f2$074f4400$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net> <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20030611235225.032dc220@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:50:55 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Danielle.
So, you like this style two?
This is just the same opening i am making to my robe francaise.
So if you are cofused? Dont be.
This inverted V closing got very fashionable from about 1780 to 1795. It
could be used for both a robe francaise, as i am making, and the anglaise
style.
The francaise, as you know has those pleats that falls from the back neck.
Anglaise dress has a fitted bodice with bones in the back seams. It goes
down in a deep point in the back.
Both dresses has open overskirts, and a matching underskirt.
The inverted V front is usually called a compere, it is sewed to the bodice
in one side, and pinned in the other side.
If you are interrested in this style, there is an Arnold pattern you can use
in the small Kyoto book. There is not any picture of it in the small book,
wich is odd, when they have the pattern there, but if you have the big Kyoto
book, there is a lovely picture of it, it is cream collored dated to 1780-90
i think.

Many greetings

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" <dannw@mn.rr.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:12 AM
Subject: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question


> Greetings,
>
> I've recently become interested in a particular style of gown (the extant
> one I've seen is dated to the 1780s).  Ribiero only refers to it as a
"Robe
> a la Anglais" (excuse the missing accents) however that seems to be a
broad
> category of gowns from the 18th century.  Does anyone know of a more
> specific term for the gowns that have the inverted-v opening in the
> front?  The closest portrait I've found so far is:
> http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_3.shtml or
> http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_2.shtml but they aren't quite
> right since the style of gown I'm thinking of has a well fitted bodice
just
> open most of the front.  You get a better idea here -
> http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/fragonar/p-fragona4.htm  The bodice back seems to
be
> usually cut en fourrere (sp?).  Does anyon know for sure?
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 11:10:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFAKHP019187
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:10:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CF6SUw007180
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:06:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CF6Qaq006727;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:06:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CF6Laq006548
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:06:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.49.2f7e5900 (4246)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:06:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <49.2f7e5900.2c19f0de@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:06:06 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/12/2003 10:38:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
brujne@creighton.edu writes:


> The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut of the
> gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back, to a
> pleated skirt,

This is true...though the curved back "seams" are usually pleats sewn down to 
the lining. The style starts by sewing down the free pleats of the Robe de la 
Francaise [And I HATE the term "Watteau gown". It's just not accurate. 
Watteau also painted fantasies....with comedia del art influences.] The cut away 
overdresses, like in the paintings that the links took me to, often have backs of 
stitched down pleats. Their waists start to rise and these overdresses are 
still seen with the Empire silhouette. There's an outrageously pleated sample in 
"Fashion in Detail".

The 1780s is a period of transition. I'd venture a guess that the term Robe 
de L'anglais at this time is more to distinguish it from other emerging forms 
like the "Round Gown" and "Chemise Gown". The blue underdress in one painting 
looks just like a Chemise Gown.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 11:21:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFL2HP019206
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:21:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFJ0Uw008620
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:19:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFIuaq015302;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:18:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFInaq015182
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:18:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by
	mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h5CFImp04123.; Thu, 12 Jun
	2003 16:18:48 +0100 (BST)
Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk
	with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:18:48 +0100
Message-Id: <see8a7e8.017@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:18:31 +0100
From: "Kate M Bunting" <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Cindy Abel wrote:
>>> The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut
of the
>gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back,
to a
>pleated skirt, rather than the Robe de la francaise(also known to us
as a
>"Watteau gown"

>This info is just off the top of my head, so anyone jump in with more
info
>or corrections.

It's "robe a l'anglaise" and "a la francaise" (meaning "in the
English/French style").



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 11:25:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFPkHP019218
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:25:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFNtUw009204
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:23:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFNsaq018844;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:23:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFNTaq018470
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:23:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by
	mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h5CFNTp04510.; Thu, 12 Jun
	2003 16:23:29 +0100 (BST)
Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk
	with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:23:29 +0100
Message-Id: <see8a901.059@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:22:59 +0100
From: "Kate M Bunting" <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Subject: [h-cost] Temporarily unsubscribing
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm shortly off to the Orkney Islands for 10 days so I 'm unsubscribing
so as not to be swamped with messages when I get back. Will talk to you
all soon.



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 11:26:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFQwHP019229
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:26:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFPBUw009325
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:25:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFP9aq019616;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:25:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFP2aq019530
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:25:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.179])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 02FC4262BF7
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:25:01 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000d01c330f6$e5ba0f50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <49.2f7e5900.2c19f0de@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:25:46 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Albertcat.
A robe a l'anglaise has not stitched down pleats in the back!  Usually some
polonaise dresses has stitched down pleats in the back.
I think you perhaps refered to Waughs Robe a langlaise early 1790ies, but i
would not call that dress a langlaise, it looks more like a pierrot jacket
with skirt.
A "normal" anglaise dress has 5 seams in the bodice, and they usually all
are boned, no pleats!
It is very difficult to make those terminations, there are so many styles
used in 18th century, but i insist, it has not pleats in the bodice! :-)

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertCat@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question


> In a message dated 6/12/2003 10:38:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> brujne@creighton.edu writes:
>
>
> > The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut of the
> > gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back,
to a
> > pleated skirt,
>
> This is true...though the curved back "seams" are usually pleats sewn down
to
> the lining. The style starts by sewing down the free pleats of the Robe de
la
> Francaise [And I HATE the term "Watteau gown". It's just not accurate.
> Watteau also painted fantasies....with comedia del art influences.] The
cut away
> overdresses, like in the paintings that the links took me to, often have
backs of
> stitched down pleats. Their waists start to rise and these overdresses are
> still seen with the Empire silhouette. There's an outrageously pleated
sample in
> "Fashion in Detail".
>
> The 1780s is a period of transition. I'd venture a guess that the term
Robe
> de L'anglais at this time is more to distinguish it from other emerging
forms
> like the "Round Gown" and "Chemise Gown". The blue underdress in one
painting
> looks just like a Chemise Gown.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 11:32:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFWeHP019251
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:32:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFUoUw009986
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFUmaq023690;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFUiaq023630
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[62.243.47.179])
	by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B793262B9C
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:30:43 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001601c330f7$b2590660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:31:29 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] 1780 terminology question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi again.
And it is difficult to determin different gowns. In Arnolds book, there are
2 gowns called an open gown with matching petticoat, wich i would call robe
anglaise two.
And if you use a polonaise without pulling up the overskirt into the 3
loops, and have the skirt fall down, it could go for an anglaise gown two!

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 11:54:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFsbHP019310
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:54:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFptUw012316
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:51:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFpqaq009728;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:51:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CFpkaq009634
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:51:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19QUMb-0002kM-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:51:45 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:51:44 -0700
Message-ID: <001701c330fa$86a7b180$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <3EE8175D.3030602@grics.net>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I got it a Jo Anne fabrics...be sure to get a 50% of coupon before you
buy it!!  It is worth signing up for their mailing list for that !

Sg

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 13:26:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHQpHP019544
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:26:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHNbUw023000
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:23:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHNVQt021215;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:23:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHNQQt021119
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:23:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1c6.b10a219 (4459)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:23:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <1c6.b10a219.2c1a1105@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:23:17 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] "Costume Connections" patterns (and others)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I have a couple of costuming pattern questions to ask, so please bear with 
me.
These are in relation to medieval costumes- specifically the bliaut and 
"corsage" (as Herbert Norris calls it in Medieval Costume and Fashion), and the 
kirtle and sideless surcoat/surcote.  I'm rather determined to make myself a 
kirtle and sideless surcote, and the bliaut and corsage are actually for Eowyn's 
"Shield Maiden" gown in LOTR.  I was looking at the illustrations in MC&F, and 
the bliaut/corsage combination looked eerily similar to the LOTR gown!  So.  
Now for my actual questions.

First, Costume Connections sells a 14th century sideless surcoat and 
undergown pattern.  Has anyone used this before?  How accurate/easy to deal with is 
it?  I can handle making some historical alterations, but I want something 
that's vaguely historical- if I need to do enough that it's easier to just draft my 
own and pray, I'd rather not waste the money.
Rocking Horse sells a kirtle pattern that I'm told is good- any opinions?
Lastly, does anyone know of a company that sells a decent bliaut pattern?  
For this particular costume, I've been given the suggestions of Mccall's 3372 
and Simplicity's 9891, but I wanted to know if anyone had "historical" 
suggestions.  I don't care about the "corsage" (which is, in the movie, an underbust 
corset-type garment on top of a stretchy vest) overmuch; I'll likely end up 
drafting the bottom half myself.  There's no bust involved, so how hard can it be? 


Christine
User of famous last words used by costumers before the hair starts being 
pulled out!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 13:51:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHp9HP019639
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:51:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHmGUw025781
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:48:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHmEQt009585;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CHmBQt009553
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:48:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19QWBH-000KHc-0W
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:48:11 +0100
Message-ID: <lN1vV8CMA45+IwVK@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:16:28 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls
References: <000701c32f62$78a3b140$751027d9@dan>
 <3EE6AB22.35E91E35@in-tch.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EE6AB22.35E91E35@in-tch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It's important to check that both portraits are actually painted within 
the period you're portraying.  Portraits were very much copied, and a 
later painter may (deliberately or not) reinterpret some details in the 
style of his own time.  There's one of a woman, I can't remember the 
details, but the original is early Tudor, Henry VIII style, and the copy 
is late Elizabethan and the painter has lengthened the stomacher, so it 
looks right to him but it looks weird compared to the original.

Jean


Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com> wrote
>I'm not much for enlightening on this one, but I can always add to the
>confusion!
>I've always loved that cape (pearls rock!), but have never seen that
>second portrait.  I'd being going "huh?", too.
>There are difference in the styles of clothing (other than the cape)
>that Raleigh's wearing...perhaps a time difference?, and the color in
>the portrait has been "updated" to be more stylish?
>Perhaps one painting is a sort of duplicate of the other?, in the way
>that some portraits were copied/recopied.  The red could be an error or
>an artist's interpretation.
>--sue
>
>
>Stevie Gamble wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined
>> pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather
>> puzzling.
>>
>> The one attributed to 'H':
>>
>> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg
>>
>> seems to show black fabric,
>>
>> but a different portrait at
>>
>> http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg
>>
>> seems to be a bright red.
>>
>> Can anyone enlighten me, please?
>>
>> best wishes
>> Stevie
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 14:36:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CIagHP019751
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:36:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CIYqUw001560
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:34:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CIYnRZ015841;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:34:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CIYkRZ015722
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:34:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.116.248f7544 (16633)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:34:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <116.248f7544.2c1a21b3@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:34:27 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/12/2003 11:33:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


> but i insist, it has not pleats in the bodice!

I must respectfully disagree.

There are dresses with seams but that 1st starts out as tacking the pleats 
down to the lining. That's how you get 18th century gowns with the backs...the 
term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB release 
into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French term for 
it....my French sux!

Anyway....this continues right into the early 1800s with a high waist. It 
even becomes a major feature of those cut way jackets with a "zone". The fabric 
will have pleats sewn to the lining all the way from where the jacket meets at 
top CF to the side waist...all the way around...and they release into a peplum 
at the back. Indeed, it how the jacket is shaped in this instance.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 15:22:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CJM1HP019922
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:22:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CJJjUw006675
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:19:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CJJhpi019470;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:19:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from out7.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (out7.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net
	[169.207.3.125])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CJJdpi019327
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:19:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail4.mx.voyager.net (mail4.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.203])
	by out7.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D7A92F77
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:19:33 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from wkslnng238 (brick.voyager.net [209.153.128.248])
	by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.12.9/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h5CJJXKK067324
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:19:33 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <012a01c3311f$e6462610$4c0310ac@wkslnng238>
From: "Emily Hartman" <hartma44@msu.edu>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <116.248f7544.2c1a21b3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:19:16 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>That's how you get 18th century gowns with the backs...the
> term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB
release
> into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French
term for
> it....my French sux!

en fourreau?

For what it's worth, I completely agree with AlbertCat.


Emily


Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît pas
--Pascal, Pensees, 1670

That's how you get 18th century gowns with the backs...the
> term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB
release
> into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French
term for
> it....my French sux!


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 16:12:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CKCdHP020309
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:12:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CKAeUw012431
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:10:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CKAcJu029247;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:10:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CKAXJu029131
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:10:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.ae.41c40b97 (16633)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:10:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <ae.41c40b97.2c1a382f@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:10:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/12/2003 3:32:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
hartma44@msu.edu writes:


> en fourreau?
> 

Thank you!  It was driving me nuts!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 17:44:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CLihHP020623
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:44:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CLgsUw023519
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:42:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CLglfk009396;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:42:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CLggfk009318
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:42:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.75])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0DA635EE23E
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:42:40 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001101c3312b$b2e51c20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <116.248f7544.2c1a21b3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:43:44 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
But we were talking about the anglaise style dress.
If you look in Norah Waughs cutting diagrams on the anglaise dress on page
95, cutting diagram xxii, this dress has no pleats only a 6 piece bodice and
skirt.
It is the same case with the cutting diagram of the Kyoto book, of a robe
anglaise.
I think you are talking about the earlyer style of dress, wich you see a lot
in f.instance Costume in Detail by Nancy Bradfield.
This style evolved from the mantua.
But a robe anglaise has a seperate bodice and skirt, there are not any
pleats that goes from the bodice to the skirt

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertCat@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question


> In a message dated 6/12/2003 11:33:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:
>
>
> > but i insist, it has not pleats in the bodice!
>
> I must respectfully disagree.
>
> There are dresses with seams but that 1st starts out as tacking the pleats
> down to the lining. That's how you get 18th century gowns with the
backs...the
> term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB
release
> into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French
term for
> it....my French sux!
>
> Anyway....this continues right into the early 1800s with a high waist. It
> even becomes a major feature of those cut way jackets with a "zone". The
fabric
> will have pleats sewn to the lining all the way from where the jacket
meets at
> top CF to the side waist...all the way around...and they release into a
peplum
> at the back. Indeed, it how the jacket is shaped in this instance.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 18:33:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMXVHP020795
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:33:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMVjUw029257
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:31:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMVUut017031;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:31:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMVQut016944
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:31:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.15f.21b229c5 (3699)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:31:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <15f.21b229c5.2c1a5933@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:31:15 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/12/2003 5:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:

> But we were talking about the anglaise style dress.
> 

Yes, they come en fourreau and not en fourreau. 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 18:52:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMq1HP020829
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:52:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMoCUw002037
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:50:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMoAut002294;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:50:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMo8ut002215
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:50:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.16a.1fe61783 (3699)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:49:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <16a.1fe61783.2c1a5d96@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:49:58 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

About this business...I direct you to Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion, Vol 
1, pages 36 and 37. And for an early version pages 22 and 23.

And in Nora Waugh to diagrams XIV and XVI...which she calls a mantua but are 
also A L'anglaise. Norah's terms aren't as definitive as you would like them 
to be, alas.

>From the big Kyoto book: pages 79 and 84 & 85. These are labeled "A la 
polonaise", but that merely refers to the draped up skirt. What if you chose not to 
wear it a la Polonaise? It's still, Polonaise or not, a L'anglaise.

This may not be the case in European terminology; I mean the Kyoto book calls 
the bodice with skirt gowns a L'anglaise. But by, say, 1740's I'd think a 
"mantua" would elicit a "court dress" idea.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 18:57:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMvZHP020840
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:57:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMtjUw002488
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:55:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMthUN005400;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:55:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe16.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.120])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5CMtcUN005319
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:55:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:55:33 -0700
Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe16.law8.hotmail.com with DAV;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:55:33 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91]
X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com]
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin2@hotmail.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <1c6.b10a219.2c1a1105@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Costume Connections" patterns (and others)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:55:35 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <Law8-OE16EXUIEAOeIi0000e5de@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2003 22:55:33.0425 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[BAD7FA10:01C33135]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Lastly, does anyone know of a company that sells a decent bliaut pattern?

If you can make a T-tunic, you should be able to make a bliaut. Or at least
the bliaut as I picture it, which might not be the same thing you're
thinking of :-) A bliaut from what I know is just a fitted T-tunic, with
gores to widen the bottom. As for the sleeves, I don't really know yet. Mine
was laced at the sides, but it wasn't meant to be historical one.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 12 23:19:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D3JRHP021973
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:19:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D3HWUw024906
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:17:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D3HNoD025259;
	Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:17:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail5.mn.rr.com (fe5.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.52])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D3HLoD025248
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:17:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail5.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:15:34 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030612221807.0388bb60@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:21:30 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
In-Reply-To: <003b01c330f2$074f4400$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
 <3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net>
 <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
 <5.0.0.25.2.20030611235225.032dc220@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Bjarne,

I fell in love with this style when I saw a robe a la anglais with this 
style bodice on display in London.  I've always liked things that were 
unusual and this style strikes me as unusual.  : )

Thank you.  I am trying to make an appointment to examine a gown of this 
style and I wanted to use the correct term.  Compere it is. : )

I will keep the pattern in mind.  Unfortunately, I have been unable to 
purchase the Revolutions in Fashion book - I keep looking though.

Cheers,
Danielle

At 04:50 PM 6/12/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Dear Danielle.
>So, you like this style two?
>This is just the same opening i am making to my robe francaise.
>So if you are cofused? Dont be.
>This inverted V closing got very fashionable from about 1780 to 1795. It
>could be used for both a robe francaise, as i am making, and the anglaise
>style.
>The francaise, as you know has those pleats that falls from the back neck.
>Anglaise dress has a fitted bodice with bones in the back seams. It goes
>down in a deep point in the back.
>Both dresses has open overskirts, and a matching underskirt.
>The inverted V front is usually called a compere, it is sewed to the bodice
>in one side, and pinned in the other side.
>If you are interrested in this style, there is an Arnold pattern you can use
>in the small Kyoto book. There is not any picture of it in the small book,
>wich is odd, when they have the pattern there, but if you have the big Kyoto
>book, there is a lovely picture of it, it is cream collored dated to 1780-90
>i think.
>
>Many greetings
>
>Bjarne

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 03:21:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7L2HP019378
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 03:21:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7JDUw013044
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:19:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7JB8g018071;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:19:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7J78g018027
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:19:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.29])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0185648008D
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:19:06 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001901c3317c$3e8d9e00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000d01c32f6f$e10173f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3EE64EFD.8060505@faucet.net> <002b01c3851a$9cf52020$ebdf8b90@clarke>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20030611235225.032dc220@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20030612221807.0388bb60@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:20:18 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Danielle.
It is a pitty, you dont have it, but if you email me privately, i shall scan
the pattern for you and send!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" <dannw@mn.rr.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question


> Bjarne,
>
> I fell in love with this style when I saw a robe a la anglais with this
> style bodice on display in London.  I've always liked things that were
> unusual and this style strikes me as unusual.  : )
>
> Thank you.  I am trying to make an appointment to examine a gown of this
> style and I wanted to use the correct term.  Compere it is. : )
>
> I will keep the pattern in mind.  Unfortunately, I have been unable to
> purchase the Revolutions in Fashion book - I keep looking though.
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle
>
> At 04:50 PM 6/12/2003 +0200, you wrote:
> >Dear Danielle.
> >So, you like this style two?
> >This is just the same opening i am making to my robe francaise.
> >So if you are cofused? Dont be.
> >This inverted V closing got very fashionable from about 1780 to 1795. It
> >could be used for both a robe francaise, as i am making, and the anglaise
> >style.
> >The francaise, as you know has those pleats that falls from the back
neck.
> >Anglaise dress has a fitted bodice with bones in the back seams. It goes
> >down in a deep point in the back.
> >Both dresses has open overskirts, and a matching underskirt.
> >The inverted V front is usually called a compere, it is sewed to the
bodice
> >in one side, and pinned in the other side.
> >If you are interrested in this style, there is an Arnold pattern you can
use
> >in the small Kyoto book. There is not any picture of it in the small
book,
> >wich is odd, when they have the pattern there, but if you have the big
Kyoto
> >book, there is a lovely picture of it, it is cream collored dated to
1780-90
> >i think.
> >
> >Many greetings
> >
> >Bjarne
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 03:30:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7U3HP022873
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 03:30:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7SKUw013758
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:28:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7SJ8g021909;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:28:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7SG8g021883
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:28:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.29])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9EF87480058
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:28:15 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <001f01c3317d$86f98b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <16a.1fe61783.2c1a5d96@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:29:29 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Albertcat,
I did not men to argue about this that much.
But i just wanted to give some clear dress terminologies for a person, who
is not familiar with the different styles.
The term for a robe anglaise, is a late 18th century definition of some
english fashions wich became very popular in France from 1775 and till about
1790.
It could be, that some calls the polonaise style also for a robe anglaise,
but i was talking about this particular dress with split bodice pieces in
the back. The french fashion magazine Galleries des Modes et Costumes
Francaise has some prints, wich calls this model with 5 seam bodice for a
robe anglaise.
I did not intend to be rude, just precise in the terminology of a robe
anglaise.

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertCat@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question


> About this business...I direct you to Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion,
Vol
> 1, pages 36 and 37. And for an early version pages 22 and 23.
>
> And in Nora Waugh to diagrams XIV and XVI...which she calls a mantua but
are
> also A L'anglaise. Norah's terms aren't as definitive as you would like
them
> to be, alas.
>
> >From the big Kyoto book: pages 79 and 84 & 85. These are labeled "A la
> polonaise", but that merely refers to the draped up skirt. What if you
chose not to
> wear it a la Polonaise? It's still, Polonaise or not, a L'anglaise.
>
> This may not be the case in European terminology; I mean the Kyoto book
calls
> the bodice with skirt gowns a L'anglaise. But by, say, 1740's I'd think a
> "mantua" would elicit a "court dress" idea.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 03:32:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7WRHP023496
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 03:32:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7UjUw013985
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:30:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7Ui8g023030;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:30:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5D7UJ8g022848
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:30:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.29])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 468044800C5
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:30:18 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <002501c3317d$d02d2b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <15f.21b229c5.2c1a5933@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:31:32 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi. again.
You say it, it is called a Fourreau gown, and that is not an anglaise gown.
Otherwise it was not called Fourreau!
I dont think you understand my mening.
No offense

Bjarne




Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertCat@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question


> In a message dated 6/12/2003 5:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:
>
> > But we were talking about the anglaise style dress.
> >
>
> Yes, they come en fourreau and not en fourreau.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 10:03:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DE3SHP026828
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:03:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DE1XUw009778
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:01:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DE1TD2001998;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:01:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DE1RD2001952
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:01:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.6.12f8b434 (3866)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:01:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <6.12f8b434.2c1b3327@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:01:11 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm 
stumped. I'm a novice at embroidery but I'm usually able to do ok, except for 
long-n-short stitch (I plan on spend a day witha frame, some linen scrap and a 
whole lotta shapes, trying fill 'em in with long-n-short). I know I want to do 
fly stitch on my leaves for the shirt motif, and stem for the stems (duh!), 
french knots for the rose centers, but the rose leaves are giving me issues. I 
really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a petal, I have 
a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original. Any embroidery 
junkies out there got any advice? I also can't decide what thread to use..crewel 
wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the middle class 
margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen 
thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a little pearl 
cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle 
class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her embroidery?) What 
should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to JOAnn's 
and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks!

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 10:32:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DEVxHP026895
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:32:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DEU9Uw012350
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:30:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DEU8D2017441;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:30:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net
	[66.136.30.169])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DEU4D2017377
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:30:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com
  (SMTPD32-8.00) id AFEA1BF013A; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:30:02 -0500
Received: From 74w0d01 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5
	MR1a);	id 1055515625781; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:47:05 -0500
Message-ID: <005d01c331b4$58a9c060$0764a8c0@algx>
From: "Cyn Bucheger" <cbucheger@paclp.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <6.12f8b434.2c1b3327@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:01:52 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO





> I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm
> stumped. ..... but the rose leaves are giving me issues. I
> really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a petal, I
have
> a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original.

Elizabethan's had a number of stitches that they really liked to use, and
while I won't say they didn't use split stitch, I don't seem to find it used
very often.

I would suggest you look up a self published book by Jane Zimmerman, called
Elizabethan Embroidery, I found it in my local needlework shop for about
$25.  In it, she goes through the stitches commonly found in Elizabethan
embroideries, the type of thread used and how they were used(filling,
outline, etc) and then she gives instructions on how to do them as well as
some variations of the stitch.

 Any embroidery
> junkies out there got any advice? I also can't decide what thread to
use..crewel
> wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the middle
class
> margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen
> thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a little
pearl
> cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle
> class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her
embroidery?) What
> should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to
JOAnn's
> and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks!
>

I've found references to silk embroidery all over the place, wool on
household stuff.  I haven't found any references to Elizabethan embroideries
in linen thread.  I'm still looking though.

Cyn


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 11:05:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DF5IHP026981
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:05:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DF1TUw015135
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:01:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DF1S48006404;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:01:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DF1P48006330
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:01:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1dd.bad347a (657)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:01:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <1dd.bad347a.2c1b413a@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:01:14 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/13/2003 3:36:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


>  did not men to argue about this that much.
> 

We aren't arguing. We're getting our terms straight.

It's a matter of subdivisions really.

I consider a gown a L'anglaise to be one with a fitted back as opposed to a 
gown a la Francaise...with flowing back pleats.

The Gown a L'anglaise may be achieved en fourreau or [later in the period] 
with separate back seams and an attached skirt, usually with a point CB.

All three styles may be worn a la Polonaise...or with the skirt draped into 3 
parts.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 12:22:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DGMtHP027202
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:22:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DGKwUw023747
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:20:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DGKvHf007408;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:20:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DGKrHf007348
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:20:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19QrIG-0001Qu-00; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:20:49 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:20:43 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c331c7$c07657e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
cc: "'Nola Yergen-Jennings'" <LadyCamilla@cox.net>
cc: "'Drea Leed'" <drea@nospam>
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Simon Bening - a question and some links-cool book recreation
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a discussion with Drea off-list she mentioned a Flemish artist with
whom I was not familiar.  In my internet searches I came across very
little (he isn't in some of my regular places like CGFA etc.)  But I did
come across some links I thought you all might be interested in:
 
An interesting article on the art of giving in the Middle Ages
 
http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/2000/11/21/27743.html
 
 
Someone has recreated his book of hours-all sold out, but cool none the
less
 
http://www.finns-books.com/flowers.htm
 
 
Here is his bio:
 
http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/bio/a355-1.html
 
 
My question finally is, do any of you know where I can find some of his
stuff online (that isn't related to his books of  hours) I am
particulary interested in women's clothing-Drea says he does have some
out there where you can see Breughel type stuff.
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 13:15:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHFqHP027323
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:15:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHE1Uw000875
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:14:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHDuGn016370;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:13:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5DHDpGn016270
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:13:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 73098 invoked by uid 1005); 13 Jun 2003 17:13:42 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.080905 secs); 13 Jun 2003 17:13:42 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.080905 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 17:13:42 -0000
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: <000001c331c7$c07657e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Message-ID: <20030613131027.N72745-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
cc: "'Nola Yergen-Jennings'" <LadyCamilla@cox.net>
cc: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Re: Simon Bening - a question and some links-cool book recreation
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Search for "da Costa Hours" or "Flemish Calendar".  Those are the two that
I've seen which contain the most peasant/lower class depictions.  Also, an
alternate (dutch) spelling of Bening's last name is "Beninck".

A search for "Flemish Miniature" art may also turn up some of his stuff.

I recently got a facsimile copy of the da Costa Hours, and I LRRRRVE it so
much.  I'm on the lookout for a good facsimile of the Flemish Calendar,
but they all cost an arm & a leg & aren't available.

Happy surfing,

Drea

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> In a discussion with Drea off-list she mentioned a Flemish artist with
> whom I was not familiar.  In my internet searches I came across very
> little (he isn't in some of my regular places like CGFA etc.)  But I did
> come across some links I thought you all might be interested in:
>
> An interesting article on the art of giving in the Middle Ages
>
> http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/2000/11/21/27743.html
>
>
> Someone has recreated his book of hours-all sold out, but cool none the
> less
>
> http://www.finns-books.com/flowers.htm
>
>
> Here is his bio:
>
> http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/bio/a355-1.html
>
>
> My question finally is, do any of you know where I can find some of his
> stuff online (that isn't related to his books of  hours) I am
> particulary interested in women's clothing-Drea says he does have some
> out there where you can see Breughel type stuff.
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 13:18:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHIIHP027337
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:18:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHF9Uw001151
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:15:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHF7Gn017308;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:15:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5DHEoGn017060
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:14:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 75587 invoked by uid 1005); 13 Jun 2003 17:14:43 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.067663 secs); 13 Jun 2003 17:14:43 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.067663 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 17:14:43 -0000
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: <000001c331c7$c07657e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Message-ID: <20030613131422.I72745-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
cc: "'Nola Yergen-Jennings'" <LadyCamilla@cox.net>
cc: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Re: Simon Bening - a question and some links-cool book recreation
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oops!  I meant the Grimani Breviary, not the Da Costa Hours.  (duh. :)

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> In a discussion with Drea off-list she mentioned a Flemish artist with
> whom I was not familiar.  In my internet searches I came across very
> little (he isn't in some of my regular places like CGFA etc.)  But I did
> come across some links I thought you all might be interested in:
>
> An interesting article on the art of giving in the Middle Ages
>
> http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/2000/11/21/27743.html
>
>
> Someone has recreated his book of hours-all sold out, but cool none the
> less
>
> http://www.finns-books.com/flowers.htm
>
>
> Here is his bio:
>
> http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/bio/a355-1.html
>
>
> My question finally is, do any of you know where I can find some of his
> stuff online (that isn't related to his books of  hours) I am
> particulary interested in women's clothing-Drea says he does have some
> out there where you can see Breughel type stuff.
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 13:34:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHYHHP027372
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:34:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHVjUw003172
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:31:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHVhGn028830;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:31:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DHVfGn028744
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:31:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.168.1ff2a190 (16099)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:31:33 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-m18.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.134]) by
	air-id11.mx.aol.com (v93.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-3ee33eea0a7518a; Fri,
	13 Jun 2003 13:31:33 -0400
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:31:33 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simon Bening - a question and some links-cool book
	recreation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2A517A56.712037BF.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi-

I have a list of paintings by Breugel's predecessors/contemporaries/followers that I've put together but do not have at my fingertips.  In the meantime, if you search for 
"Simon Bening" Peasants
you will find quite a bit of stuff.  Also, you will want to find the "Seven Works of Charity" which I have at home in a book.  If you cannot find it, let me know.  When searching on the web, you may want to search for 
"Simon Bening" Charity
"Simon Bening" Caritas   [Latin for Charity]

Constance

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 14:56:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DIuLHP027596
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:56:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DIsSUw011789
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:54:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DIsQk1026841;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:54:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DIsMk1026788
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:54:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.212])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C7C87480012
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:54:20 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000701c331dd$6ad456a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <6.12f8b434.2c1b3327@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:55:53 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,
I would use some silk floss for the roses. Could that thread not have ben a
gift you had got from someone?
Anyway, for the roses wich has 5 flower leaves each, i would use long and
short stitch. Dont be afraid, the roses are not big, so it should not be
difficult. Make a stitch at the start and end of each flower leaf. Then make
a stitch from the point of the middle leaf and into the petals. Then you
have a direction to use for the stitches!
Make some small sampler first, then you don't  have to be afraid before you
start the shirt.
I would only use one thread if i were you, if you use more, it easily gets
bulky.
Good luck, it is a lovely projekt wish it was me who were making that shirt.

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <LoreleiMorte@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 4:01 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question


> I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm
> stumped. I'm a novice at embroidery but I'm usually able to do ok, except
for
> long-n-short stitch (I plan on spend a day witha frame, some linen scrap
and a
> whole lotta shapes, trying fill 'em in with long-n-short). I know I want
to do
> fly stitch on my leaves for the shirt motif, and stem for the stems
(duh!),
> french knots for the rose centers, but the rose leaves are giving me
issues. I
> really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a petal, I
have
> a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original. Any embroidery
> junkies out there got any advice? I also can't decide what thread to
use..crewel
> wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the middle
class
> margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen
> thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a little
pearl
> cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle
> class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her
embroidery?) What
> should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to
JOAnn's
> and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks!
>
> -Sarra Wryght
> Elizabethan Dress Journals:
http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
> Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 16:57:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DKuoHP027928
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:57:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DKseUw025121
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:54:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DKsani023687;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:54:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DKsUni023611
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:54:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19QvZ5-00029b-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:54:28 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:54:06 -0700
Message-ID: <000501c331ed$faa2f6a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In poking around the internet I came across this picture.  I don't think
the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are
some neat ones on the site.
 
http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 17:18:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLIQHP027970
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:18:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLGRUw027683
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:16:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLGQIb009039;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:16:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com
	(w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLGKIb008958
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:16:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-6.00) id AF281F04A4; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:16:24 -0500
From: "Betsy Marshall" <betsy@softwareinnovation.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:16:24 -0500
Message-ID: <000201c331f1$0bb0ee90$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <000501c331ed$faa2f6a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The green bump in the front row looks like a road or path turns to go
into or through it, might they be granaries of some sort? 
Is the page description "area of cooking"? (I'm guessing wildly here- my
command of French is considerably less than useful) Betsy

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 3:54 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?

In poking around the internet I came across this picture.  I don't think
the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are
some neat ones on the site.
 
http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 17:18:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLIiHP027973
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:18:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLGlUw027748
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:16:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLGkIb009293;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:16:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DLGhIb009229
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:16:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12113
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:39:26 -0500
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:39:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
In-Reply-To: <000501c331ed$faa2f6a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306131629410.12068-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> In poking around the internet I came across this picture.  I don't think
> the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are
> some neat ones on the site.
>  
> http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm

Dunno, Easter eggs? I'd love to know too! Something having to do with
food, I think, and probably an allegorical or symbolic representation.

Me, though, I'm looking at the wonderful example of medieval perspective
in this illumination -- especially the right-hand doorway (look at the
top) and the angle of the shutters on the back center window. I'm getting
dizzy...

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 18:18:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DMI3HP028099
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:18:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DMBEUw004019
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:11:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DMBDRw016608;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:11:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5DMB8Rw016439
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:11:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mccc.edu ([198.133.170.246])
	by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.9/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h5DMB22d027884
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:11:02 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EEA4BF7.E962336C@mccc.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:11:03 -0400
From: Kate Pinner <pinner@mccc.edu>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306131629410.12068-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO



Robin Netherton wrote:
Dunno, Easter eggs? I'd love to know too!

or the window overlooks Jurrasic Park and those are dinosaur eggs..
Neat picture tho and the perspective really is a precursor to Escher.

> food, I think, and probably an allegorical or symbolic representation.
>
> Me, though, I'm looking at the wonderful example of medieval perspective
> in this illumination -- especially the right-hand doorway (look at the
> top) and the angle of the shutters on the back center window. I'm getting
> dizzy...
>
> --Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 20:56:12 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E0uCHP028464
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:56:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E0rLUw019867
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:53:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E0rF7s022141;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:53:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E0r97s022066
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:53:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13022
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:15:53 -0500
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:15:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
In-Reply-To: <000201c331f1$0bb0ee90$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306132014040.13017-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Betsy Marshall wrote:

> The green bump in the front row looks like a road or path turns to go
> into or through it, might they be granaries of some sort?  Is the page
> description "area of cooking"? (I'm guessing wildly here- my command
> of French is considerably less than useful) Betsy

The French, I think, translates to "back kitchen" or "rear kitchen." The
book it comes from is one of many with a title similar to "On the Nature
of Things," meaning anything from philosophy to alchemy to a practical
manual of some activity, or all three at once. Without the context, I have
no clue what it says ... and there's not enough text showing for me to try
reading what's on the page.

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 21:32:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E1WkHP028559
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:32:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E1V2Uw022014
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:31:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E1V1mS008334;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:31:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E1UwmT008315
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:30:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-44.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[63.207.101.44])h5E1W5Ae073336
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:32:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <1dd.bad347a.2c1b413a@aol.com>
Message-Id: <AB8DA6BE-9DBC-11D7-A36B-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Um... This is fascinating, but I'm finding it really hard to follow
along without illustrations.  Could you provide some links
to illustrate your terms, or page numbers from the Kyoto book or
something?

thanks!

.heather.

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 08:01 AM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/13/2003 3:36:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:
>
>
>>  did not men to argue about this that much.
>>
>
> We aren't arguing. We're getting our terms straight.
>
> It's a matter of subdivisions really.
>
> I consider a gown a L'anglaise to be one with a fitted back as opposed 
> to a
> gown a la Francaise...with flowing back pleats.
>
> The Gown a L'anglaise may be achieved en fourreau or [later in the 
> period]
> with separate back seams and an attached skirt, usually with a point 
> CB.
>
> All three styles may be worn a la Polonaise...or with the skirt draped 
> into 3
> parts.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 22:07:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E27SHP028636
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:07:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E25DUw024883
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:05:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E25BaC024339;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:05:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E258aD024296
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:05:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dandy.net (acty6025.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.251.25])
	by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5E25Brt010422
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:05:12 -0400
Message-ID: <3EEA8277.6050000@dandy.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:03:35 -0400
From: michael tartaglio <mikes@dandy.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
References: <000501c331ed$faa2f6a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi. I'm going to make a guess here. Since something mentions cuisine, 
and diet and medicine were intertwined in this period, and there is a 
fellow compounding something in a mortar, next to the storage 
containers, and other persons appear to be eating, drinking and ?using a 
tissue?, I'm guessing there is some sort of alchemical allegory to the 
"hills" and their colors. If someone has a better trans. of the title, 
this might shed some light...  Cheers, Mike T.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 13 23:13:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E3DnHP028739
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:13:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E3C4Uw001152
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:12:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E3C2ZC000761;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:12:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E3C1ZC000747
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:12:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19R1SN-0005KO-00; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:11:56 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <Flemish_Garb@yahoogroups.com>, <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:11:44 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c33222$b5fd9e80$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric.com Dupioni on sale.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Okay, sorry to do this to you, but dupioni just went on sale.  They have
some interesting colors.  I don't think I've seen lower prices lately
other than  that you can get dupioni in the LA fabric district for $6.00
(if you have a guy with you).
 
I got some of the midnight red and the warm gold. :0)
 
Sg
 
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 00:11:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E4BIHP028848
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 00:11:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E49XUw005208
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:09:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E49Vr6026978;
	Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:09:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E49Tr6026952
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:09:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19R2M4-0006Xc-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:09:28 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: FW: [h-cost] Fabric.com Dupioni on sale.
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:09:28 -0700
Message-ID: <001001c3322a$c00c4270$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Slapping my forehead!  Duh!  Helps to tell you where:

www.fabric.com Phoenix textiles!

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
~Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 8:12 PM
~To: Flemish_Garb@yahoogroups.com; h-costume@indra.com
~Subject: [h-cost] Fabric.com Dupioni on sale.
~
~Okay, sorry to do this to you, but dupioni just went on sale.  They
have
~some interesting colors.  I don't think I've seen lower prices lately
~other than  that you can get dupioni in the LA fabric district for
$6.00
~(if you have a guy with you).
~
~I got some of the midnight red and the warm gold. :0)
~
~Sg
~
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 06:02:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EA2fHP032164
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 06:02:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E9wlUw026681
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:58:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E9wel4010941;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:58:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.157])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5E9wcl4010923
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:58:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-013caburbp0027.dialsprint.net ([63.191.0.27]
	helo=[0019381808])
	by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19R7ny-000550-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:58:38 -0400
From: "Katherine" <kcg@sprynet.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 02:59:58 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC?
Message-ID: <3EEA8FAE.14514.363FC19@localhost>
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <200306081801.h58I0wss015878@net.indra.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Ooh, real silk and wool?  Lovely, I can't find anything like that locally.  Well, I did 
find wool once about two years ago :)

I'll have to bug my friend about a side trip.  Thanks :)

Katherine

> > I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was
> > wondering if anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area.
> > 
> 
> Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want
> upholstery fabric.
> 
> Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 south
> near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of stuff.
> Some silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some good
> laces and some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. Some nice
> wools too. The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out.



Katherine

"I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they 
can make fun of the public without its revolting."

Marie, Queen of Roumania

My Dress Site
http://www.koshka-the-cat.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 06:31:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EAViHP032238
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 06:31:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EAQBUw028940
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 04:26:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EAQ9l4025415;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 04:26:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.57])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EAQ6l4025373
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 04:26:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-013caburbp0027.dialsprint.net ([63.191.0.27]
	helo=[0019381808])
	by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19R8EY-0000Ba-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 06:26:06 -0400
From: "Katherine" <kcg@sprynet.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:27:25 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: [h-cost] "Costume Connections" patterns (and others)
Message-ID: <3EEA961D.26035.37D1ECB@localhost>
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <200306121801.h5CI1Vsd020791@net.indra.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Christine :)

I don't have answers to your pattern questions, I haven't used any of the patterns 
you mentioned (I used the RHF sideless gowns pattern for my Refugee dress, 
which, except for running big, was fine), but I do have an answer for the corset.  I 
drafted my own and it was one of the easiest things I've done.  I even posted 
directions online.  If you're interested, you can see them here:

http://www.koshka-the-cat.com/shieldmaiden.html (just click on the corset link from 
there!)

Good luck,
Katherine

On 12 Jun 2003 at 12:01, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:

> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:23:17 EDT
> From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
> suggestions.  I don't care about the "corsage" (which is, in the movie, an
> underbust corset-type garment on top of a stretchy vest) overmuch; I'll
> likely end up drafting the bottom half myself.  There's no bust involved,
> so how hard can it be? 
> 
> 
> Christine
> User of famous last words used by costumers before the hair starts being
> pulled out!



Katherine

"I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they 
can make fun of the public without its revolting."

Marie, Queen of Roumania

My Dress Site
http://www.koshka-the-cat.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 07:36:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EBa7HP032430
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 07:36:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EBWvUw003242
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:32:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EBWro2020033;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:32:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law15-f27.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.27])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EBWfo2019912
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:32:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Sat, 14 Jun 2003 04:32:35 -0700
Received: from 208.59.182.42 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:32:35 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [208.59.182.42]
X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com]
From: "Laura Dickerson" <lauradi7@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@net.indra.com
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:32:35 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Law15-F279cAgjHXwKH0003611a@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2003 11:32:35.0675 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[A7070AB0:01C33268]
Subject: [h-cost] Robin Netherton talks in New England
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi, I'm new here. It might be a little weird for one's first post to be a 
long announcement. I hope that's OK.
  For people who want to attend: If you're putting a check in the mail, 
please also let me know by email (at this address or the one below) so I can 
add you to the registration list as soon as possible.


Announcing  a day of historical costume lectures at MIT (Cambridge, MA)  on 
November 8,
2003.

Robin Netherton is an independent scholar specializing in costume of the

Middle Ages and Renaissance. Since 1982, she has given lectures and
workshops for academic audiences, historical societies, reenactment
groups, and writers' organizations, both on practical aspects of period
costume and on costume as an approach to social history, art history,
and
literature.  Her research focuses on the development of the cut of
Western
European clothing in the 12th through 15th centuries, and also on the
depiction and interpretation of clothing by artists and historians, both

medieval and modern.

Room opens for seating at 9:30 AM.
   The scheduled times are approximate, as it is hard to estimate how
long the Q & A times will last after the lectures, but the first
lectures should begin at

10 AM SHARP
TWO 14TH-CENTURY DRESS STYLES (2 hours)
Includes two lectures:

The Gothic Fitted Dress
      The fitted fashion popular throughout much of Europe in the late
14th century and early 15th century has been the object of much
speculation, regarding such matters as who wore it, how it was made, and

even what it was called. (The term "cotehardie," often applied to this
style, was most likely not the term used by the women who wore it.) A
detailed analysis shows the various versions and uses of this style, how

it evolved from earlier unfitted fashions, and how it formed the basis
for
the development of the more structured fashions of the 15th and 16th
centuries. The lecture examines some likely construction techniques as
well as the social significance of the fashion and its presentation in
artwork.

The Greenland Gored Gown
      Costume references frequently cite the garment finds from the
14th-
century cemetery at Herjolfsnes, Greenland, as examples of medieval
European clothing construction. This lecture re-examines some common
assumptions about these gowns in light of overlooked details in the
original study report, the cultural context of the Greenland colony, and

the likely methods of clothing construction used by the Greenlanders.
The
discussion gives special attention to the oft-cited "10-gore" gown and
how
it might influence our understanding of 14th-century European fashion.

noon - 2  LUNCH BREAK

Participants may bring lunch or eat at any of several on-campus or
nearby eateries.

2 PM

TWO 15TH-CENTURY OVERDRESSES (2 hours)
Includes two lectures:

Will the Real Sideless Surcote Please Stand Up?
      Common wisdom holds that the sideless surcote was a popular female

fashion of the late 14th century and much of the 15th century in
England,
France, and Flanders. Looking closely at the artwork that portrays this
fashion, though, we can trace several distinct stages in the development

and use of the style and its implications for the wearer. A slide
lecture
will show how to distinguish between the surcote's uses as a real
garment
and as a symbolic device in artwork, with special attention to practical

issues of construction.

The 15th-Century V-Neck Gown
      The so-called "Burgundian" style that dominates much of
15th-century
fashion in Western Europe is in fact two separate styles, which have
distinctive characteristics and are apparently constructed in two
completely different ways. An examination of artwork over the course of
the century demonstrates the differences and provides clues as to how
the
two styles developed and the ways in which they may have been made.

BREAK

4:30 PM
When Medieval Meets Victorian: The Roots of Modern Costume Sources (1.5
hours)
        Too often, today's costume sources present "facts" about
medieval
and Renaissance costume that are actually misinterpretations dating from

the Victorian era. This lecture traces the development of modern costume

scholarship and examines the motives and methods of 19th-century costume

historians. Armed with this information, 21st-century costumers can
learn
how to recognize -- and compensate for -- Victorian influence in current

sources.

At the speaker's request, no audio or video taping of the lectures will
be
permitted.

The location is MIT Room: 4-231.  For a map of MIT with the building
highlighted,
see:
http://whereis.mit.edu/bin/map?locate=bldg_4

This is not an SCA event.

Cost is $25.00 for those who pre-register.  Cost at the door will be
$40.00, but it is unlikely that any last minute space will be available,

as attendance is limited to 60. A few work-study slots will be available

for people who can help but can't afford to pay.

Make the check out to
Laura Dickerson  and mail to 3 Audubon Road Lexington, MA 02421


questions?  email
lauradi@erols.com

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 10:36:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEaXHP001037
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:36:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEUKUw013266
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:30:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEUDch025966;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:30:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEUAch025928
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:30:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1ca.bc6c6b1 (17526)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:30:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <1ca.bc6c6b1.2c1c8b68@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:30:00 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 910
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/13/03 9:35:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
alice@wonderland.com writes:

> Could you provide some links
> to illustrate your terms, or page numbers from the Kyoto book or
> something?
> 

I'm sorry....but now I'm traveling and don't have my books in front of me. 
I'm on other peoples' computers.

Does a more Internet savvy person [who's at home....in familiar surroundings] 
have some on line pics that could help?
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 10:36:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEaoHP001040
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:36:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEUrUw013324
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:30:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEUqch026227;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:30:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EEUnch026195
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:30:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15903
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:53:35 -0500
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:53:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC?
In-Reply-To: <3EEA8FAE.14514.363FC19@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306140952250.15803-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Someone wrote:

> > > I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was
> > > wondering if anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area.
> > 
> > Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want
> > upholstery fabric.
> > 
> > Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 south
> > near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of stuff.
> > Some silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some good
> > laces and some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. Some nice
> > wools too. The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out.

Isn't Mulberry Silks around that area? Nice small fabric store, good
quality, good service ... or at least that was the case 10 years ago. I'd
hate to find out it's gone out of business.

--Robin

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 12:47:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EGlXHP001305
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:47:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EGjOUw021697
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:45:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EGjKRJ021464;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:45:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5EGjCRK021423
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:45:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[63.207.101.100])h5EGkMAe081656
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:46:23 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:44:38 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306140952250.15803-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Message-Id: <7D1C5302-9E87-11D7-A36B-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It's in Carrboro, which is about an hour away from Greensboro,
without traffic.

On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 07:53 AM, Robin Netherton wrote:

>
> Someone wrote:
>
>>>> I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was
>>>> wondering if anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area.
>>>
>>> Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want
>>> upholstery fabric.
>>>
>>> Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 
>>> south
>>> near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of 
>>> stuff.
>>> Some silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some 
>>> good
>>> laces and some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. 
>>> Some nice
>>> wools too. The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out.
>
> Isn't Mulberry Silks around that area? Nice small fabric store, good
> quality, good service ... or at least that was the case 10 years ago. 
> I'd
> hate to find out it's gone out of business.
>
> --Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 22:23:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F2NGHP002624
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:23:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F2L3Uw004817
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:21:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F2KmlW026524;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:20:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5F2KklW026511
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:20:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 24189 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 02:20:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51)
  by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 02:20:45 -0000
Received: from 12.233.12.26
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com)
        by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP;
        Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <3405.12.233.12.26.1055643645.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
From: <dch@inreach.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <000001c33042$fe757070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
References: <33665.162.119.64.111.1055349098.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
        <000001c33042$fe757070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Does anybody know when piping *did* show up?  Any pictures online would be
great if you can point to them...

Thanks!

Diana


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 14 22:53:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F2rwHP002676
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:53:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F2pfUw007549
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:51:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F2pelW010230;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:51:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F2pclX010209
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:51:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5F2pfHe003584
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:51:41 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5F2pfq2003582
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:51:41 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:51:41 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <33665.162.119.64.111.1055349098.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
	<000001c33042$fe757070$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<3405.12.233.12.26.1055643645.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
In-Reply-To: <3405.12.233.12.26.1055643645.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306142251.41018.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5F2pclX010209
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:20 pm, dch@inreach.com wrote:
> Does anybody know when piping *did* show up?  Any pictures online would be
> great if you can point to them...

You'll all *love* this....

For Christmas, I got a copy of "The Tarim Mummies" (by J.P. Mallory & Victor 
H. Mair, pub. Thames & Hudson, 2000).  The book describes, in great detail, a 
number of extremely well-preserved, Caucasian, mummified bodies which have 
been discovered in the Tarim Basin (i.e., Central Asia near northwestern 
China) between, roughly, 1800 B.C.E. and 250 B.C.E.  The book has 
fair-to-middling pictures (some in color) describes the clothing worn by the 
mummies in some detail (which is why I wanted the book).

One of the mummies has been nicknamed "Ur-David" by the researchers.  The 
group he was found with is estimated to date from between 1000 B.C.E. and 
about 600 B.C.E.  His primary garment is a wrapped coat, shaped rather like a 
karate gi or a bathrobe, in a dark red color.  The interesting part is that, 
along the front edges the coat is finished with what the authors describe as 
*piping*--and it sure looks like piping in the photos!  (This piping is a 
bright orangish-red, which contrasts sharply with the much darker bluer red 
of the coat itself.)  More of the "piping" appears on the sleeves at the 
upper arms.  

It is conceivable, of course, that this stuff is merely cord sewn on the edges 
of the coat and the body of the sleeves, though the edges of the coat sure 
look as though they've been piped--but one would need to see the garment 
itself, or perhaps an extreme close up of the garment, to be sure....

Alas, I could not find a URL to a picture of Ur David online, and the book is 
only out in hardcover.  It costs $50.00 US.  

But if the authors are correct and the stuff *is* piping, at least one tribe 
in Central Asia was using piping around 1000 B.C.E. ....  


-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 00:18:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F4IEHP002825
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:18:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F4GNUw012991
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:16:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F4GLJe013025;
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:16:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F4GJJe013015
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:16:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by
	scanmail1.cableone.net  with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:16:21 -0700
Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net
  (SMTPD32-7.04) id A31410C900D0; Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:16:20 -0700
Received: from kimathlon (24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]) by
	mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42);
	Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:16:20 -0600
From: "Kim Baird" <kbaird@cableone.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:16:03 -0500
Message-ID: <000401c332f4$d5fe55d0$0201a8c0@kimathlon>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
In-reply-to: <200306142251.41018.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Importance: Normal
X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon
X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net
X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Mallory and Mair's book is fascinating, but if it's the textiles that
interest you, try Elizabeth Barber's The Mummies of Urumchi, W. W.
Norton and Co. This book is primarily about the textiles, and yes, the
clothing is piped. Barber examined it in person.

Great book.

Kim





-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:52 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary

On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:20 pm, dch@inreach.com wrote:
> Does anybody know when piping *did* show up?  Any pictures online
would be
> great if you can point to them...

You'll all *love* this....

For Christmas, I got a copy of "The Tarim Mummies" (by J.P. Mallory &
Victor 
H. Mair, pub. Thames & Hudson, 2000).  The book describes, in great
detail, a 
number of extremely well-preserved, Caucasian, mummified bodies which
have 
been discovered in the Tarim Basin (i.e., Central Asia near northwestern

China) between, roughly, 1800 B.C.E. and 250 B.C.E.  The book has 
fair-to-middling pictures (some in color) describes the clothing worn by
the 
mummies in some detail (which is why I wanted the book).

One of the mummies has been nicknamed "Ur-David" by the researchers.
The 
group he was found with is estimated to date from between 1000 B.C.E.
and 
about 600 B.C.E.  His primary garment is a wrapped coat, shaped rather
like a 
karate gi or a bathrobe, in a dark red color.  The interesting part is
that, 
along the front edges the coat is finished with what the authors
describe as 
*piping*--and it sure looks like piping in the photos!  (This piping is
a 
bright orangish-red, which contrasts sharply with the much darker bluer
red 
of the coat itself.)  More of the "piping" appears on the sleeves at the

upper arms.  

It is conceivable, of course, that this stuff is merely cord sewn on the
edges 
of the coat and the body of the sleeves, though the edges of the coat
sure 
look as though they've been piped--but one would need to see the garment

itself, or perhaps an extreme close up of the garment, to be sure....

Alas, I could not find a URL to a picture of Ur David online, and the
book is 
only out in hardcover.  It costs $50.00 US.  

But if the authors are correct and the stuff *is* piping, at least one
tribe 
in Central Asia was using piping around 1000 B.C.E. ....  


-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 02:26:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F6QOHP003036
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 02:26:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F6NWUw020391
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:23:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F6NQT9028639;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:23:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.25])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5F6NOT9028625
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:23:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host-66-81-242-183.rev.o1.com ([66.81.242.183]
	helo=[66.81.241.184])
	by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RQvD-00070l-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 02:23:23 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org
Message-Id: <p05100305bb11a5507601@[66.81.241.184]>
In-Reply-To: <6.12f8b434.2c1b3327@aol.com>
References: <6.12f8b434.2c1b3327@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:38:27 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Chris Laning <claning@igc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 10:01 AM -0400 6/13/03, LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote:
>I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm
>stumped. I'm a novice at embroidery but I'm usually able to do ok, except for
>long-n-short stitch (I plan on spend a day witha frame, some linen scrap and a
>whole lotta shapes, trying fill 'em in with long-n-short). I know I want to do
>fly stitch on my leaves for the shirt motif, and stem for the stems (duh!),
>french knots for the rose centers, but the rose leaves are giving me issues. I
>really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a 
>petal, I have
>a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original. Any embroidery
>junkies out there got any advice?

Long-and-short stitch was indeed used in Elizabethan embroidery, but 
it doesn't seem to be quite as common then as it became 50 to 100 
years later (when it was used for practically everything).

Other stitches used for Elizabethan fillings include satin stitch (in 
small areas), detached buttonhole stitch and its variations which 
were _very_ common, and ladder stitch, which is essentially a very 
wide, short chain stitch used as a filling, with its edges following 
the edge of whatever you're filling (like a leaf or petal).

Split stitch isn't often mentioned, but it was certainly still known 
at this time, though because it's so labor-intensive I would expect 
to see it on big formal expensive stuff rather than on a shirt or 
smock.

>  I also can't decide what thread to use..crewel
>wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the 
>middle class
>margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen
>thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a 
>little pearl
>cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle
>class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her 
>embroidery?) What
>should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to JOAnn's
>and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks!

As I understand it, silk thread was probably the most common thread 
used for black or colored embroidery. My impression is that if you 
could afford to embroider something at all, you could probably afford 
the silk thread to embroider it with. It was expensive, but not 
impossibly expensive: a well-to-do middle-class person could 
certainly afford to embroider a few garments at least, but you'd be 
very careful of your thread so as not to waste any.

Helena's shirt in the portrait (if that is indeed who she is) was 
probably the only shirt she had that was this heavily embroidered -- 
and of course she wore her best clothes to have her portrait painted.

I'd advise going with silk if you can get it.

OTOH, If this needs to be a garment that is washed often, and if you 
have good-quality cotton embroidery floss (DMC or Anchor, not the 
dime-store kind) feel free to use 1 or 2 strands of cotton instead.

-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     <claning@igc.org>
+    Davis, California
_________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 10:25:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FEPCHP017591
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:25:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FENFUw018393
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:23:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FENAQK017141;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:23:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FEN7QK017100
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:23:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.b4.1e6fabc6 (16335)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:22:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <b4.1e6fabc6.2c1ddb42@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:22:58 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question UPDATE
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thank you guys! All of your suggestions and advice made my life much, much 
easier... I started the embroidery last night, here's the first of my efforts: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/loreleimorte/helena7.html">
http://members.aol.com/loreleimorte/helena7.html</A>

It's my first crewel-ish embroidery, so be gentle, k? :)

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 11:54:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FFsSHP018674
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:54:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FFpfUw022882
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:51:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FFpdk9015855;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:51:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FFpak9015832
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:51:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RZn5-0002ho-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:51:36 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:51:27 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c33356$005f3770$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <000401c332f4$d5fe55d0$0201a8c0@kimathlon>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'.  Anyone else know of its
use a little later?  I suppose one could use the logic that if the
Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it
could be one of those 'givens'.   Would be nice to see some
documentation on it though....

Sg

~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Kim Baird
~Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:16 PM
~To: 'Historical Costume'
~Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
~
~Mallory and Mair's book is fascinating, but if it's the textiles that
~interest you, try Elizabeth Barber's The Mummies of Urumchi, W. W.
~Norton and Co. This book is primarily about the textiles, and yes, the
~clothing is piped. Barber examined it in person.
~
~Great book.
~
~Kim
~
~
~
~
~
~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
~On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond
~Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:52 PM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
~
~On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:20 pm, dch@inreach.com wrote:
~> Does anybody know when piping *did* show up?  Any pictures online
~would be
~> great if you can point to them...
~
~You'll all *love* this....
~
~For Christmas, I got a copy of "The Tarim Mummies" (by J.P. Mallory &
~Victor
~H. Mair, pub. Thames & Hudson, 2000).  The book describes, in great
~detail, a
~number of extremely well-preserved, Caucasian, mummified bodies which
~have
~been discovered in the Tarim Basin (i.e., Central Asia near
northwestern
~
~China) between, roughly, 1800 B.C.E. and 250 B.C.E.  The book has
~fair-to-middling pictures (some in color) describes the clothing worn
by
~the
~mummies in some detail (which is why I wanted the book).
~
~One of the mummies has been nicknamed "Ur-David" by the researchers.
~The
~group he was found with is estimated to date from between 1000 B.C.E.
~and
~about 600 B.C.E.  His primary garment is a wrapped coat, shaped rather
~like a
~karate gi or a bathrobe, in a dark red color.  The interesting part is
~that,
~along the front edges the coat is finished with what the authors
~describe as
~*piping*--and it sure looks like piping in the photos!  (This piping is
~a
~bright orangish-red, which contrasts sharply with the much darker bluer
~red
~of the coat itself.)  More of the "piping" appears on the sleeves at
the
~
~upper arms.
~
~It is conceivable, of course, that this stuff is merely cord sewn on
the
~edges
~of the coat and the body of the sleeves, though the edges of the coat
~sure
~look as though they've been piped--but one would need to see the
garment
~
~itself, or perhaps an extreme close up of the garment, to be sure....
~
~Alas, I could not find a URL to a picture of Ur David online, and the
~book is
~only out in hardcover.  It costs $50.00 US.
~
~But if the authors are correct and the stuff *is* piping, at least one
~tribe
~in Central Asia was using piping around 1000 B.C.E. ....
~
~
~--
~Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
~
~"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."
~Albert Einstein
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 12:31:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGVhHP018760
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:31:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGTtUw025159
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:29:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGTrre029836;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:29:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGTjre029804
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:29:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RaO0-0004d4-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:29:45 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:29:37 -0700
Message-ID: <000501c3335b$5488d540$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Floral Dupioni's
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In an online quest for bottle green dupioni, I came across this site
 
http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+dupioni+stripes+plaids2.htm#
<http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+dupioni+stripes+plaids2.htm> 
 
I thought those of you doing later stuff (late 1600's and on) might be
interested in the couple of floral dupionis they had available.  I
especially like the pink and green one.
 
"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 12:34:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGYAHP018764
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:34:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGWKUw025341
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:32:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGWJre001222;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:32:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGWCre001113
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:32:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RaQK-0007T1-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:32:10 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Saragrace Knauf'" <saragrace@earthlink.net>,
   "H-Costume@Indra. Com" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:32:07 -0700
Message-ID: <000f01c3335b$aa431770$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] RE: Floral Dupioni's
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oh, and their stripes and brocades are pretty cool too.  They have
'silk' velvet, but I have written to find out if it is 100% silk-my
guess is, not, because of the price.
 
"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:30 AM
To: H-Costume@Indra. Com (h-costume@indra.com)
Subject: Floral Dupioni's
 
In an online quest for bottle green dupioni, I came across this site
 
http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+dupioni+stripes+plaids2.htm#
<http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+dupioni+stripes+plaids2.htm> 
 
I thought those of you doing later stuff (late 1600's and on) might be
interested in the couple of floral dupionis they had available.  I
especially like the pink and green one.
 
"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 13:35:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FHZsHP018943
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:35:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FHY6Uw000797
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:34:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FHY4Fp028027;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:34:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FHXxFp027866
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:33:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net
	[68.36.17.255])	(authenticated (0 bits))
	by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5FHXQR5000896
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:33:27 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030615132219.05043ca0@mail.earthlink.net>
X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:33:28 -0400
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Brenda <webwarren@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5FHXxFp027866
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

"Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net> wrote:

>In poking around the internet I came across this picture. I don't think
>the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are
>some neat ones on the site.
>http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm

Don't know about those bumps, but that is one really cool site. (For those 
of you who managed to miss it, the main page/page d'acceuil is 
<http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/index.htm> "Gastronome Médiévale" 
(Medieval Gastronomy) and it's all about food and how it integrated into 
Medieval life.) Lots of images and lots of info. (Sg: did this come from 
one of the SCA cooking lists? If not, it should probably be forwarded 
on...) Under "Food and Medicine", the site discusses how diet was 
prescribed based on one's personal balance of humors, and how people 
treated disease with diet by trying to rebalance those humors. Under 
"Imagination and Food", there are mentions of fantastical "foods" listed in 
a reading primer, the arguments in favor of/against cooked and raw foods, 
the Great Chain of Being (which described what foods were required for what 
social classes), and some fantastical ideas of where spices come from 
("Barthélemy the English rather imagined that one had to look for cinnamon 
in the nest of the Phoenix...")...

BTW, I think I'm getting about 75% of the information. But I'm also not 
taking the time to look up the words I'm unfamiliar with...



Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 14:24:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIOLHP019038
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:24:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIMZUw004196
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:22:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIMW0M018173;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:22:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com
	[207.195.54.245])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIMT0M018147
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:22:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243])
	by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2258B16228E
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:22:29 -0600 (CST)
Received: (qmail 15166 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 18:22:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (12.246.76.5)
  by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 18:22:28 -0000
Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030615111821.00a17950@pop3.lfchosting.com>
X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:21:45 -0700
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: MaryAnn Jones <mabse@spublofe.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306151801.h5FI0q0O009521@net.indra.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] linen velvet
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I bought some linen velvet at a good price.  (okay, it was still more than 
I have ever spent for a fabric) and I am going to make some Elizabethans 
out of it.  The question is... can I wash it?  and how, if I can?  In the 
washing machine?

thanks, maryann

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 14:32:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIWdHP019069
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:32:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIUuUw004641
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:30:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIUt0M021258;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:30:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIUr0N021240
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:30:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5FIUxHe015944
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:30:59 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5FIUxxI015942
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:30:59 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:30:59 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <000001c33356$005f3770$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
In-Reply-To: <000001c33356$005f3770$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306151430.59237.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5FIUr0N021240
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Sunday 15 June 2003 11:51 am, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'.  Anyone else know of its
> use a little later?  

Wish I did.  But the only other usages I know of outside the Tarim example)  
are 19th c.




Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 14:46:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIk8HP019128
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:46:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIiMUw005452
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:44:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIiL0M026680;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:44:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIiF0M026615
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:44:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5FIiEPn020612
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:44:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.197.143] (tnt-1-207.HIP.Berkeley.EDU
	[136.152.197.143])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FIi1dp020300
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:44:12 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100302bb126dcbd9a2@[136.152.197.143]>
In-Reply-To: <000001c33356$005f3770$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
References: <000001c33356$005f3770$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:42:13 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 8:51 AM -0700 6/15/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
>I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'.  Anyone else know of its
>use a little later?  I suppose one could use the logic that if the
>Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it
>could be one of those 'givens'.   Would be nice to see some
>documentation on it though....

The problem is that that kind of logic can be shown to be faulty. 
Take tattoos, for instance.  You've got examples of tattoos in Europe 
in the Stone Age (the Iceman) and from around the 19th century on, 
but it's pretty easily demonstrable that the modern fad for tattoos 
was imported from other parts of the world and not part of a 
continuous tradition.  I'd be highly suspicious of any chain of logic 
that takes two highly separated time-points at which we have evidence 
for something, and then proposes continuous use between the two 
points.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:04:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJ4dHP019192
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:04:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJ2sUw006492
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:02:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJ2pbA004857;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:02:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJ2mbA004815
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:02:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Rcm7-000494-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:02:47 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:02:38 -0700
Message-ID: <000e01c33370$b604afa0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <p05100302bb126dcbd9a2@[136.152.197.143]>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I don't think anyone serious about re-creating a historic garment would
try to use that logic as proof of anything.  On the other hand there is
clearly evident that our capacity for ingenuity isn't modern....as my
professional historian friend says:  "If you thought of it, they
probably did too"  So when it comes to producing something that allows a
man to fly, they may not have had the technology, but they thought of
it.  Piping is probably something that even 'they' could have handled.

It is interesting that you bring up the Iceman though.  They are
conjecturing that the tattoos were also acupuncture points. So here is a
skill that Europeans had at one time and 'lost'.    

Sg

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones
~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 11:42 AM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
~
~At 8:51 AM -0700 6/15/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
~>I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'.  Anyone else know of its
~>use a little later?  I suppose one could use the logic that if the
~>Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it
~>could be one of those 'givens'.   Would be nice to see some
~>documentation on it though....
~
~The problem is that that kind of logic can be shown to be faulty.
~Take tattoos, for instance.  You've got examples of tattoos in Europe
~in the Stone Age (the Iceman) and from around the 19th century on,
~but it's pretty easily demonstrable that the modern fad for tattoos
~was imported from other parts of the world and not part of a
~continuous tradition.  I'd be highly suspicious of any chain of logic
~that takes two highly separated time-points at which we have evidence
~for something, and then proposes continuous use between the two
~points.
~
~Heather
~--
~*****
~Heather Rose Jones
~hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
~*****
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:17:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJHZHP019219
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:17:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJFoUw007620
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:15:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJFmbA010485;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:15:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJFjbA010441
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:15:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RcyW-0003Mu-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:15:37 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:15:33 -0700
Message-ID: <001b01c33372$809eb980$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This is a common misconception.  Just because a website makes a claim
doesn't make it true.  We have worked with this company before.  Their
price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part of
this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern.  But you as
the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower
because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because we
offer wholesale prices to the public.  E-lexus is strictly a retailer.
 
 
Thanks again.
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM
To: 'Hyena'
Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
 
Huh, that isn't true.  Here is some:
http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=Gre
nadine
I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway.
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM
To: 'Saragrace Knauf'
Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
 
Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all a
mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80%
rayon.
Hope this helps!
 
Delight Underwood
HYENA
http://www.hyenaproductions.com <http://www.hyenaproductions.com/> 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM
To: info@hyenaproductions.com
Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
 
Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
 
Saragrace
 
 
 
"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:23:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJNAHP019239
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:23:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJLLUw008263
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:21:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJLKbA013086;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:21:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJLIbA013071
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:21:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Rd41-0002FE-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:21:17 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:21:16 -0700
Message-ID: <002001c33373$4b57d990$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <001b01c33372$809eb980$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally got it through I
forgot to ask my question!

I have been having this exchange with someone saying they are selling
pure silk velvet on their site.  They then are telling me there is no
such thing.  So have any of you actually put your hands on pure silk
velvet?  Or have we all been beign duped by the folks who say they are
weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I doubt this, but....)

Sg

~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:16 PM
~To: h-costume@indra.com
~Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
rayon?
~
~This is a common misconception.  Just because a website makes a claim
~doesn't make it true.  We have worked with this company before.  Their
~price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part of
~this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern.  But you as
~the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower
~because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because
we
~offer wholesale prices to the public.  E-lexus is strictly a retailer.
~
~
~Thanks again.
~
~
~
~
~-----Original Message-----
~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM
~To: 'Hyena'
~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~
~Huh, that isn't true.  Here is some:
~http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=Gr
e
~nadine
~I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway.
~
~Sg
~
~-----Original Message-----
~From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net]
~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM
~To: 'Saragrace Knauf'
~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~
~Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all a
~mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80%
~rayon.
~Hope this helps!
~
~Delight Underwood
~HYENA
~http://www.hyenaproductions.com <http://www.hyenaproductions.com/>
~
~
~
~-----Original Message-----
~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM
~To: info@hyenaproductions.com
~Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~
~Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~
~Saragrace
~
~
~
~"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
~Isocrates
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:25:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJPvHP019243
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:25:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJOCUw008612
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:24:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJOCbA014603;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:24:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJNWbA014219
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:23:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Rd6B-0004kj-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:23:31 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:23:28 -0700
Message-ID: <002101c33373$9af578e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk
velvet, why not?  Surely it can be made??

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:21 PM
~To: 'Historical Costume'
~Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
rayon?
~
~Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally got it through I
forgot to ask my
~question!
~
~I have been having this exchange with someone saying they are selling
pure silk
~velvet on their site.  They then are telling me there is no such thing.
So have any of
~you actually put your hands on pure silk velvet?  Or have we all been
beign duped
~by the folks who say they are weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I
doubt this,
~but....)
~
~Sg
~
~~-----Original Message-----
~~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:16 PM
~~To: h-costume@indra.com
~~Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
rayon?
~~
~~This is a common misconception.  Just because a website makes a claim
~~doesn't make it true.  We have worked with this company before.  Their
~~price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part
of
~~this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern.  But you as
~~the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower
~~because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because
we
~~offer wholesale prices to the public.  E-lexus is strictly a retailer.
~~
~~
~~Thanks again.
~~
~~
~~
~~
~~-----Original Message-----
~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM
~~To: 'Hyena'
~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~~
~~Huh, that isn't true.  Here is some:
~~http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=G
re
~~nadine
~~I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway.
~~
~~Sg
~~
~~-----Original Message-----
~~From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net]
~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM
~~To: 'Saragrace Knauf'
~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~~
~~Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all
a
~~mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80%
~~rayon.
~~Hope this helps!
~~
~~Delight Underwood
~~HYENA
~~http://www.hyenaproductions.com <http://www.hyenaproductions.com/>
~~
~~
~~
~~-----Original Message-----
~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM
~~To: info@hyenaproductions.com
~~Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~~
~~Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
~~
~~Saragrace
~~
~~
~~
~~"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
~~Isocrates
~~
~~_______________________________________________
~~h-costume mailing list
~~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:40:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJecHP019279
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:40:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJcmUw009926
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:38:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJclbA021427;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:38:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJcibA021396
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:38:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f59.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.89])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 37F065EE245
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:38:43 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <007e01c33376$227227d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <b4.1e6fabc6.2c1ddb42@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question UPDATE
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:41:36 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hello Lorelei.
Congratulations, you did very well. It is very very difficult to embroider
that tecknique on linen, i think it is very nice.
Now have fun with the shirt, and remember to post pictures two :-)

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: <LoreleiMorte@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question UPDATE


> Thank you guys! All of your suggestions and advice made my life much, much
> easier... I started the embroidery last night, here's the first of my
efforts: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/loreleimorte/helena7.html">
> http://members.aol.com/loreleimorte/helena7.html</A>
>
> It's my first crewel-ish embroidery, so be gentle, k? :)
>
> -Sarra Wryght
> Elizabethan Dress Journals:
http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
> Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:43:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJhOHP019288
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:43:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJfdUw010058
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:41:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJfcbA022565;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:41:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5FJfIbA022462
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:41:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 522 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 19:41:17 -0000
Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25)
  by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 19:41:17 -0000
Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-170.sonic.net
	[209.148.112.170])
	by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6p2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h5FJfGs10365
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:41:16 -0700
X-envelope-info: <fran@lavoltapress.com>
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030615122910.00b0ec68@pop.sonic.net>
X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:42:57 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Lavolta Press <fran@lavoltapress.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
  rayon?
In-Reply-To: <002101c33373$9af578e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It is true that most of the modern silk velvet is mostly rayon.

I have handled a lot of chiffon silk velvet from the 1920s and thereabouts, 
and a lot of heavier Edwardian and Victorian silk velvet. Antique silk 
velvet tends to be less shiny than modern rayon velvet. It does have a very 
nice hand, but the rayon isn't bad.  The silk base/rayon pile modern velvet 
is often actually a pretty good approximation of 1920s-ish chiffon velvet. 
The all-rayon velvets I've seen--the somewhat heavier velvets with a rayon 
back as well as pile--tend to be not only shinier but slipperier to sew 
than Victorian/Edwardian velvets. For a modern approximation of those, I'd 
lean to a 100% cotton velvet.  BTW, rayon can be made to be less shiny, 
it's just that some velvet manufacturers don't seem to do it.

I have also seen modern 100% silk upholstery weight silk velvet at the Silk 
Trading Company.  I have never seen modern clothing weight velvet (you 
might be able to use upholstery weight velvet for heavy coats, but I trust 
people know what I mean). I am dubious of the ebay sellers who claim to 
carry 100% silk velvet.

As silk prices have really come down in the last few years, I also see no 
reason why silk velvet is not more available.  Except, it isn't.

BTW, I got my two silk brocade swatches from Hyena.  They do seem to be 
pure silk and they are clothing (not upholstery) weight.

Fran


At 12:23 PM 6/15/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk
>velvet, why not?  Surely it can be made??


>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and Vintage Dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance 


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:46:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJkkHP019300
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:46:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJixUw010264
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:44:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJiwbA023789;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:44:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net
	(smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5FJiubA023774
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:44:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 14797 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2003 19:44:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.166.66.21)
  by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 19:44:55 -0000
Message-ID: <00b201c33376$9a95ec60$1542a6d0@castlebooks>
From: "Janet Davis" <castle@erie.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <002101c33373$9af578e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:44:57 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
rayon?


> Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk
> velvet, why not?  Surely it can be made??
>
Somehow I doubt that velvets from the Renaissance were 80% rayon.  But
someone posted today about linen velvet - that I've never heard of.

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:51:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJpOHP019318
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:51:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJnaUw010467
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:49:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJnZbA025376;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:49:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJnXbA025348
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:49:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f59.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.89])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A18535EE374
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:49:31 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <008601c33377$a700acf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <002101c33373$9af578e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:52:28 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Saragrace,
You know, i think it is the same matter as to the fine linens.
Why dont any manufacture fine linen thread for lace?
Because there are not enough costumers for it!
Bobbin lacers would not pay the high price it would cost, and therefore the
manufacturers stopped making it.
Now all bobbin lacers makes the fine point ground laces with gassed cotton
thread.

Remember it is "money makes the world go arround"

I saw a picture of the royal family wearing some velvet cloaks, for a kind
of seremonial occation, Oxford Univercity or something, and it looked like
real silk velvet, but i dont know if there is a place where they weave such
a thing occationally for the royalty!
If you were going to make a costume in silk velvet, it would cost you a
farm!

Bjarne






Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
rayon?


> Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk
> velvet, why not?  Surely it can be made??
>
> "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
> Isocrates
>
>
> ~-----Original Message-----
> ~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
> ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:21 PM
> ~To: 'Historical Costume'
> ~Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
> rayon?
> ~
> ~Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally got it through I
> forgot to ask my
> ~question!
> ~
> ~I have been having this exchange with someone saying they are selling
> pure silk
> ~velvet on their site.  They then are telling me there is no such thing.
> So have any of
> ~you actually put your hands on pure silk velvet?  Or have we all been
> beign duped
> ~by the folks who say they are weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I
> doubt this,
> ~but....)
> ~
> ~Sg
> ~
> ~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
> On
> ~~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
> ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:16 PM
> ~~To: h-costume@indra.com
> ~~Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
> rayon?
> ~~
> ~~This is a common misconception.  Just because a website makes a claim
> ~~doesn't make it true.  We have worked with this company before.  Their
> ~~price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part
> of
> ~~this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern.  But you as
> ~~the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower
> ~~because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because
> we
> ~~offer wholesale prices to the public.  E-lexus is strictly a retailer.
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~Thanks again.
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
> ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM
> ~~To: 'Hyena'
> ~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
> ~~
> ~~Huh, that isn't true.  Here is some:
> ~~http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=G
> re
> ~~nadine
> ~~I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway.
> ~~
> ~~Sg
> ~~
> ~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net]
> ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM
> ~~To: 'Saragrace Knauf'
> ~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
> ~~
> ~~Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all
> a
> ~~mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80%
> ~~rayon.
> ~~Hope this helps!
> ~~
> ~~Delight Underwood
> ~~HYENA
> ~~http://www.hyenaproductions.com <http://www.hyenaproductions.com/>
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net]
> ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM
> ~~To: info@hyenaproductions.com
> ~~Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
> ~~
> ~~Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
> ~~
> ~~Saragrace
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~
> ~~"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
> ~~Isocrates
> ~~
> ~~_______________________________________________
> ~~h-costume mailing list
> ~~h-costume@mail.indra.com
> ~~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 15:54:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJs9HP019322
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:54:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJqPUw010700
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:52:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJqObA026453;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:52:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FJqKbA026408
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:52:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f59.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.89])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A096E5EE453
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:52:19 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <009201c33378$0b3dafb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:55:16 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] silk velvet
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
When i was at the ball in Bath, Sir James was wearing a very nice costume
made in fake silk velvet. It was sooooooooo beautifull and it looked very
like the real thing.
So rayon velvet, can be very beautifull two!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 16:06:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FK6bHP019362
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:06:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FK4nUw011337
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:04:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FK4lBx000994;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:04:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5FK4iBx000942
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:04:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 12875 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Jun 2003 20:04:34 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.06544 secs); 15 Jun 2003 20:04:34 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.06544 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 2003 20:04:34 -0000
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:04:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen velvet
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20030615111821.00a17950@pop3.lfchosting.com>
Message-ID: <20030615160301.P13800-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I've seen linen velvet washed; it made the fabric a bit rougher, and more
like upholstery velvet, than the shiny and flat unwashed linen velvet.

This was velvet with a linen backing and rayon nap.  Is the nap of your
fabric linen or rayon?

Drea


On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, MaryAnn Jones wrote:

> I bought some linen velvet at a good price.  (okay, it was still more than
> I have ever spent for a fabric) and I am going to make some Elizabethans
> out of it.  The question is... can I wash it?  and how, if I can?  In the
> washing machine?
>
> thanks, maryann
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 16:20:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FKKRHP019392
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:20:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FKHgUw012084
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:17:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FKHfBx006181;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:17:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.56])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5FKHbBx006124
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:17:37 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030615201732.49735.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:17:32 PDT
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:17:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <002001c33373$4b57d990$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally
> got it through I
> forgot to ask my question!
> 
> I have been having this exchange with someone saying
> they are selling
> pure silk velvet on their site.  They then are
> telling me there is no
> such thing.  So have any of you actually put your
> hands on pure silk
> velvet?  Or have we all been beign duped by the
> folks who say they are
> weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I doubt this,
> but....)
> 
> Sg
> 

Most of what I've been able to examine has been silk
velvet ribbon, and 1 cloak of silk upholstery-weight
velvet. As Fran said, it's more similar to very good
cotton velvet than modern rayon velvet. I don't care
for the current silk/rayon velvet because it's very
limp.

I'm also cheap, so if I was going to buy silk/rayon
velvet, I'd probably order it from Silk Connection
(aka Rupert Gibbon & Spider), as it's less than 1/2
the price that Hyena is charging, and only 2% less
silk. It only comes in 2 colors (black and white), but
is easily dyed.

Speaking of rayon velvet...

I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark green
rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into? Or
shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a couple
of creases), and sell it on eBay?

Thanks!

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 17:09:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FL9BHP019547
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:09:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FL2uUw015034
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:02:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FL2rBQ024384;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:02:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FL2oBQ024350
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:02:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19ReeH-0001lg-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:02:49 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk velvet
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:02:48 -0700
Message-ID: <001101c33381$7a902290$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <009201c33378$0b3dafb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I agree that the rayon/silk is beautiful.  I was just surprised by the
conviction this person had that there was no such thing as 100% silk
velvet.  (I also thought it was interesting that they said not to
believe it just because it was advertised as such on the internet-maybe
because they advertise theirs as being pure silk when it isn't???)

I was also surprised that they thought they were offering it at such a
good price....as someone else pointed out you can get it un-dyed for
$11.00 yard and dyed for as little as $17.00 yard.

Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 20:25:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G0PDHP019932
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:25:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G0MTUw027589
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:22:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G0MT7N011776;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:22:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net
	(smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5G0JE7N010319
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:19:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 17101 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 00:19:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.166.66.250)
  by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 00:19:13 -0000
Message-ID: <010301c3339c$ec667c00$c742a6d0@castlebooks>
From: "Janet Davis" <castle@erie.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:19:15 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h5G0PDHP019932
Status: RO

I know I wouldn't submit my picture to this site http://www.amiperiodornot.com/ but it is a somewhat amusing concept.  Unfortunately, those who need a negative answer to this question haven't been submitting either :-) 

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 20:28:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G0SFHP019937
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:28:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G0JHUw027350
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:19:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G0JE7N010324;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:19:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G0JA7O010287
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:19:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5G0JHHe016466
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:19:17 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5G0JHCu016464
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:19:17 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:19:17 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <000001c33356$005f3770$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<p05100302bb126dcbd9a2@[136.152.197.143]>
In-Reply-To: <p05100302bb126dcbd9a2@[136.152.197.143]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306152019.17309.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5G0JA7O010287
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Sunday 15 June 2003 02:42 pm, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
> At 8:51 AM -0700 6/15/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> >I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'.  Anyone else know of its
> >use a little later?  I suppose one could use the logic that if the
> >Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it
> >could be one of those 'givens'.   Would be nice to see some
> >documentation on it though....
>
> The problem is that that kind of logic can be shown to be faulty.
> Take tattoos, for instance.  You've got examples of tattoos in Europe
> in the Stone Age (the Iceman) and from around the 19th century on,
> but it's pretty easily demonstrable that the modern fad for tattoos
> was imported from other parts of the world and not part of a
> continuous tradition. 

The modern "fad" is not part of any Western tradition, but knowledge of 
tattooing in the West is old.  I have found a book of essays, called "Written 
on the Body:  The Tattoo in European and American History" (Jane Caplan, ed. 
Princeton University Press 2000).  The essays indicate that, in classical 
Rome, tattooing was reserved for criminals and other outcasts, and later uses 
of tattooing in the West followed this tradition until the discovery of 
tattooing out in the South Pacific islands aroused new interest in the 
practice.

But this illustrates that Heather is right; just because a technology for 
dress or adornment exists in a particular period doesn't mean it was either 
commonly known or used.


-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 21:24:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1O8HP020213
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:24:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1LEUw002216
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:21:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1LCeM008514;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:21:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.mn.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1L9eM008490
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:21:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail2.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:21:07 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030615202305.02dd6c60@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:23:47 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
  rayon?
In-Reply-To: <002101c33373$9af578e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 12:23 PM 6/15/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk
>velvet, why not?  Surely it can be made??
>
>"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
>Isocrates

Yes, there is silk velvet.  Jack Lenor Larson, does an entire upholstery 
line of silk velvet and it is the yummiest stuff!

Cheers,
Danielle

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 15 21:27:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1QxHP020216
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:27:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1OFUw002467
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:24:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1OFeM009708;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:24:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.mn.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G1L9eM008494
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:21:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail2.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:21:07 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030615202455.02ddaeb0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:25:55 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
  rayon?
In-Reply-To: <00b201c33376$9a95ec60$1542a6d0@castlebooks>
References: <002101c33373$9af578e0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 03:44 PM 6/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
>rayon?
>
> > Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk
> > velvet, why not?  Surely it can be made??
> >
>Somehow I doubt that velvets from the Renaissance were 80% rayon.  But
>someone posted today about linen velvet - that I've never heard of.
>
>Janet


There was also wool velvet - I've recently found reference being used in 
either late 16th or early 17th century England but off the top of my head I 
can't remember where the reference is...

Cheers,
Danielle

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 00:43:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G4hIHP020637
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:43:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G4fHUw018734
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:41:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G4f1EV006058;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:41:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G4etEV005960
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:40:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.169])
	by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h5G50KP24335
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:00:21 +1000
Message-ID: <00a601c333c1$f3639400$eaf4fea9@glendaii>
From: "Glenda Robinson" <glendar@compassnet.com.au>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <010301c3339c$ec667c00$c742a6d0@castlebooks>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:44:15 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Of course it all depends on the people who are judging, and what they know
about what they're looking at.

I'm very tempted to put in pictures of a couple of my latest creations.

It is indeed a fun concept.

Glenda.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janet Davis" <castle@erie.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 10:19 AM
Subject: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts


> I know I wouldn't submit my picture to this site
http://www.amiperiodornot.com/ but it is a somewhat amusing concept.
Unfortunately, those who need a negative answer to this question haven't
been submitting either :-)
>
> Janet
>
> Janet Davis
> Castle Furnishings
> http://www.medievalbookstore.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 01:34:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G5Y4HP020851
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:34:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G5WHUw023401
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:32:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G5WGCK000377;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:32:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com
	[207.195.54.245])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G5WCCK000356
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:32:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243])
	by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 43E5C162EB8
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:32:12 -0600 (CST)
Received: (qmail 3358 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 05:32:11 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (12.246.76.5)
  by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 05:32:11 -0000
Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030615223007.00a19d10@pop3.lfchosting.com>
X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:31:27 -0700
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: MaryAnn Jones <mabse@spublofe.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306152007.h5FK7hC1002205@net.indra.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 329
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 02:07 PM 6/15/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>This was velvet with a linen backing and rayon nap.  Is the nap of your
>fabric linen or rayon?

I am not sure if I responded to this.  I think that it is part cotton.  I 
know that there is no rayon.  I am going to do a test piece, because I 
do  not want to lose the nice shiny flat look.  thanks, maryann

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 03:10:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G7AoHP015969
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:10:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G795Uw001649
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:09:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G793gv015537;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:09:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from app3.nasc.inter.net (nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net
	[203.176.60.253])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G792gv015478
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:09:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 1cust200.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.99.200]
	helo=vienna.localdomain)
	by app3.nasc.inter.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)	id 19Ro6p-0000BP-00
	for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:08:56 -0400
Received: from cedar by vienna.localdomain with local (Exim 3.36 #5 (Red Hat
	Linux))	id 19RkTP-0006Oh-00
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:15:59 -0400
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:15:59 -0400
From: Christine Robb <cedar@interlog.com>
To: h-costume@net.indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
Message-ID: <20030616031559.GE9809@vienna.bellnexxia.net>
References: <200306151801.h5FI0q0O009521@net.indra.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <200306151801.h5FI0q0O009521@net.indra.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 12:01:03PM -0600, Brenda wrote:
> "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >In poking around the internet I came across this picture. I don't think
> >the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are
> >some neat ones on the site.
> >http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm
> 
> Don't know about those bumps, but that is one really cool site. (For those 
> of you who managed to miss it, the main page/page d'acceuil is 
> <http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/index.htm> "Gastronome M?di?vale" 
> (Medieval Gastronomy) and it's all about food and how it integrated into 
> Medieval life.) Lots of images and lots of info.

There is a limited version of it in English as well, at :
http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/enimages/anglais/index.htm

And thank you all for all your tips about cleaning wool a while back.


Christine
ECD in TO
http://www.interlog.com/~cedar
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 03:17:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G7HUHP017173
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:17:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G7FkUw001984
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:15:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G7Fjgv018086;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:15:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com
	(mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.40])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G7Fggw018042
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:15:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [212.74.114.4] (helo=mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com)
	by mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14)
	id 19RoDJ-0000vk-H3
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:15:37 +0100
Received: from [62.254.246.53] by mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com with HTTP;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:13:48 +0100
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:13:48 +0100
Message-ID: <3ED766E40001C636@mk-cpfrontend-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306152007.h5FK7hC0002205@net.indra.com>
From: "Rachel" <reholliday@lineone.net>
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5G7Fggw018042
Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to order
basis.  I can get hold of some but it is very expensive.  The best quote
I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus VAT
and shipping.  The won't do any less than a metre.  So for the moment at
least it is out of most peoples pockets.  Basically if you see anything
less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine article.
 If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass on
the details.

Rachel


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 04:03:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G83GHP004243
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:03:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G81RUw004525
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:01:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5G81Pt1004052;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:01:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.89])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5G81Nt1003996
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:01:23 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030616080118.59600.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:01:18 BST
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:01:18 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is
	the nap rayon?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030615201732.49735.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net> wrote: > 

> I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark green
> rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into? Or
> shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a couple
> of creases), and sell it on eBay?

What a shame you are on another continent! I just said to Teddy that I am
looking for a nice dark green velvet for an artistic teagown made with the La
Mode Bagatelle pattern. Poots! Would have bought it off you, but postage is too
much. :-(

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 08:55:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GCt4HP024584
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:55:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GCr8Uw022679
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:53:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GCr1u4020206;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:53:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GCqwu4020171
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:52:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-14-118.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.118] helo=pavilion)
	by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RtTl-0007T2-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:52:58 -0700
Message-ID: <001c01c33408$4eb25a80$760e77d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3ED766E40001C636@mk-cpfrontend-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:07:56 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'd like the details Rachel.  Not that I'm ordering any, but this sort of
info is handy to have up one's sleeve.

Thanks,

Lisa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel" <reholliday@lineone.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 12:13 AM
Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet


> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to order
> basis.  I can get hold of some but it is very expensive.  The best quote
> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus VAT
> and shipping.  The won't do any less than a metre.  So for the moment at
> least it is out of most peoples pockets.  Basically if you see anything
> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine article.
>  If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass on
> the details.
>
> Rachel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 10:24:12 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEOCHP026069
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:24:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEMLUw000121
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:22:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEMJYZ003363;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:22:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEMGYZ003290
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:22:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633FC19FD3E
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:22:10 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EEDD340.5060001@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:25:04 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

Yes it is finished!!!!!
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html

Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) .

Greetings,
        Deredere



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 10:26:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEQYHP026159
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:26:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEOnUw000348
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:24:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEOmYZ004674;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:24:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from newbabe.mengwong.com (newbabe.mengwong.com [208.210.125.227])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEOiYZ004654
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:24:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: by newbabe.mengwong.com (Postfix, from userid 669)
	id 031011F683; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:24:43 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:24:43 -0400
From: "Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)" <katherine@infotrope.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Message-ID: <20030616142443.GB24886@infotrope.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm the person responsible for that website.  Someone suggested it to me
on Friday and I just had to do it!  I was wondering how long it would
take to show up here :)
                                                                                
Anyway, I hope you find it entertaining.

Yours,
                                                                                
Kirrily
(SCA: Katherine Rowberd)
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 10:28:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GESLHP026165
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:28:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEQdUw000473
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:26:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEQcYZ005709;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:26:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEQbYZ005660
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:26:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.6f.39d531db (16335)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:26:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <6f.39d531db.2c1f2d94@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:26:28 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/16/2003 9:23:04 AM Central Standard Time, 
triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:

> Yes it is finished!!!!!
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html
> 

OH MY GOD! That is gorgeous!  Jen needs to do a Festive Attyre thing on you! 
Holy Sh** that is beautiful!

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 10:46:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEkoHP026246
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:46:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEivUw002027
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:44:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GEitYZ015481;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:44:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5GEiqYZ015407
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:44:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCot5x3QjQ4pKoWoQ876dYJjUOY0sk0lK2w==">; Mon, 16 Jun 2003
	10:44:20 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2S7822S; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:44:20 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:12:35 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
Message-ID: <20030616.081235.-105683733.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Your partlet is fabulous! The dress is lovely as well. Even in the less
than perfect pictures, the outfit looks terrific. I can't wait to see
what the good pictures look like! Well done!


Karen

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:03:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF30HP026297
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:03:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF14Uw003751
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:01:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF13iZ025109;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:01:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF10iZ025067
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:01:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RvTe-0006cc-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:00:59 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:00:58 -0700
Message-ID: <000301c33418$18b684a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <001c01c33408$4eb25a80$760e77d8@pavilion>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5GF10iZ025067
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Me too please!!  Sg

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo
~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 6:08 AM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
~
~I'd like the details Rachel.  Not that I'm ordering any, but this sort
of
~info is handy to have up one's sleeve.
~
~Thanks,
~
~Lisa
~
~----- Original Message -----
~From: "Rachel" <reholliday@lineone.net>
~To: <h-costume@indra.com>
~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 12:13 AM
~Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
~
~
~> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to
order
~> basis.  I can get hold of some but it is very expensive.  The best
quote
~> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus
VAT
~> and shipping.  The won't do any less than a metre.  So for the moment
at
~> least it is out of most peoples pockets.  Basically if you see
anything
~> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine
article.
~>  If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass
on
~> the details.
~>
~> Rachel
~>
~>
~> _______________________________________________
~> h-costume mailing list
~> h-costume@mail.indra.com
~> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:07:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF7hHP026305
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:07:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF4vUw004187
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:04:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF4uiZ027440;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:04:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF4piZ027379
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:04:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RvXN-0004GO-00; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:04:49 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:04:48 -0700
Message-ID: <000401c33418$a2341e90$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <20030616142443.GB24886@infotrope.net>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
cc: "'Lisa Sinervo'" <Lisa@ThreadneedleSt.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I think it is a great idea.  I wonder if you could work up some criteria
for people to go by?   Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or perhaps a
couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up what they go
by....looking forward to seeing how it develops!

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)
~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:25 AM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
~
~I'm the person responsible for that website.  Someone suggested it to
me
~on Friday and I just had to do it!  I was wondering how long it would
~take to show up here :)
~
~Anyway, I hope you find it entertaining.
~
~Yours,
~
~Kirrily
~(SCA: Katherine Rowberd)
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:09:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF9MHP026308
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:09:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF6bUw004379
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:06:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF6aiZ028489;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:06:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GF6XiZ028466
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:06:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19RvZ1-0006gD-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:06:33 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:06:30 -0700
Message-ID: <000501c33418$dec72b40$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <20030616.081235.-105683733.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I had to LOL at myself.  I found myself holding my breath while I waited
for the images to load!   It looks great.  What is it like to wear it?
Does it feel funny or does it shift around much?  The whole ensemble
looks great.  Nice work!

Sg

~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of seamstrix@juno.com
~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 6:13 AM
~To: h-costume@indra.com
~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
~
~Your partlet is fabulous! The dress is lovely as well. Even in the less
~than perfect pictures, the outfit looks terrific. I can't wait to see
~what the good pictures look like! Well done!
~
~
~Karen
~
~________________________________________________________________
~The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
~Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
~Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:13:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFDfHP026321
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:13:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFASUw004751
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:10:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFARiZ001208;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:10:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFANiZ001148
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:10:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Rvck-0004Pg-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:10:22 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:10:21 -0700
Message-ID: <000601c33419$68bd77a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <20030616080118.59600.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle 
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO



Aren't those great patterns!  I don't care much for the Regency style,
but I have the Artistic Reform Tea gown.
http://lamodebagatelle.com/art.htm
I want to make it for my cousin who has this lovely 'plantation' in the
south...

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:18:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFHxHP026329
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:17:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFAeUw004781
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:10:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFAdiZ001332;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:10:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFAaiZ001248
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:10:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1868410EFAD
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:10:30 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <0a9c01c33419$6c1d1d60$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EEDD340.5060001@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:10:25 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere, it's exquisite. It really is a masterpiece.

Dianne
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deredere Galbraith" <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
To: "H-Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 10:25 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!


> Hi,
> 
> Yes it is finished!!!!!
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html
> 
> Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) .
> 
> Greetings,
>         Deredere
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:28:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFSWHP026353
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:28:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFOSUw006074
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:24:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFOQiZ009542;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:24:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80408.mail.yahoo.com (web80408.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.63])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5GFOKiZ009418
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:24:20 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030616152415.47862.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:24:15 PDT
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or
	is the nap rayon?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030616080118.59600.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- N Kipar <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  --- Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net> wrote: > 
> 
> > I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark
> green
> > rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into?
> Or
> > shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a
> couple
> > of creases), and sell it on eBay?
> 
> What a shame you are on another continent! I just
> said to Teddy that I am
> looking for a nice dark green velvet for an artistic
> teagown made with the La
> Mode Bagatelle pattern. Poots! Would have bought it
> off you, but postage is too
> much. :-(
> 
> Nicole

After seeing the patterns, can I steal your idea? I'm
thinking maybe cream-colored silk with the dark green
velvet...

Dawn



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:32:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFW7HP026370
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:32:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFIxUw005513
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:18:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFIviZ006307;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:18:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFIriZ006226
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:18:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B4019FF6C
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:18:48 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EEDE086.6080807@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:21:42 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
References: <000501c33418$dec72b40$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

It is hot!!! Perfectly for cold winters :-) .
I can't move my head a lot. It is a lot cooler and better to wear when I 
wear it open.
Because I only wore it to make the pictures I don't know if it will get 
uncomfertable.
I put the dress on by my self witch is almost impossible to do. It 
didn't fit right. I think I made the partlet a too long in the back.
Many of the buttons are under my dress. It feals a bit like chainmail 
Because it is so heavy. But it stay's well on the schoulders.

I am happy you like it :-) :-)

Greetings,
        Deredere




Saragrace Knauf wrote:

>I had to LOL at myself.  I found myself holding my breath while I waited
>for the images to load!   It looks great.  What is it like to wear it?
>Does it feel funny or does it shift around much?  The whole ensemble
>looks great.  Nice work!
>
>Sg
>
>~-----Original Message-----
>~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
>On
>~Behalf Of seamstrix@juno.com
>~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 6:13 AM
>~To: h-costume@indra.com
>~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
>~
>~Your partlet is fabulous! The dress is lovely as well. Even in the less
>~than perfect pictures, the outfit looks terrific. I can't wait to see
>~what the good pictures look like! Well done!
>~
>~
>~Karen
>~
>~________________________________________________________________
>~The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
>~Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>~Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>~_______________________________________________
>~h-costume mailing list
>~h-costume@mail.indra.com
>~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:36:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFaPHP026397
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:36:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFXWUw007104
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:33:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFXUiZ015422;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:33:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFXRiZ015326
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:33:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.15.138b0724 (4184)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:33:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <15.138b0724.2c1f3d3f@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:33:19 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10634
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/16/2003 10:23:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:


> Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) .
> 

Yummy!

Look, If you're all alone and need a picture, here's what you do.

Surely you have a self timer on the camera. Position the camera so it's 
steady on a table or, if it needs to be higher, a stack of books or something. Just 
so it won't move. Put a chair or lamp of something where you're gonna stand 
and look through the camera to get it positioned and focused. Now a cable to 
trip the shudder will be helpful here, but you don't need one. Carefully trip 
the shudder and use the 10 seconds you usually have with a self timer to get 
into place. It's longer than you think. Smile. CLICK!

I don't mean to treat you like an idiot or anything, but you'd be surprised 
at how many people don't think to do this kind of thing. They think 
"picture=snapshot" and forget that a long, complicated set up is where a lot of great 
photos come from.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:39:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFdZHP026407
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:39:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFZ3Uw007305
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:35:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFZ1iZ016446;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:35:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFYwiZ016401
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:34:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27114
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:57:53 -0500
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:57:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-Reply-To: <000401c33418$a2341e90$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161050170.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> I think it is a great idea.  I wonder if you could work up some
> criteria for people to go by?  Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or
> perhaps a couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up
> what they go by....looking forward to seeing how it develops!

Ah, but that would spoil it ;-)

I get the impression that the site is really about, well, impressions --
that is, would the average SCA member, seeing you at an event, get a
"period" feel from your visual look? Do you contribute to the period
atmosphere on a gut level, for people who may not be "educated" enough to
understand the details and decisions of your clothing?

That's very different from situations where you provide documentation and
explain the details and reasons for what you've done, which is what
happens in competitions, classes, and formal displays. Those activities
can educate the group members and raise standards over the long run, of
course.

The responses on this site say as much about the general knowledge level
of the respondents as they do about the clothing of the individuals. I
don't see it as an assessment only of the clothes, or as any sort of valid
competition for costume quality -- more of a "finger on the pulse" of the
community level of understanding. A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern
materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience
interprets as "medieval." And while that may not be great historic
costuming, it can contribute positively to the other participants'
experience because of how it affects the atmosphere of an event.

--Robin



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 11:47:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFl3HP026432
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:47:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFfFUw008034
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:41:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFfAiZ020574;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:41:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GFf8iZ020550
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:41:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Rw6T-0002AL-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:41:07 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:41:02 -0700
Message-ID: <001b01c3341d$b35c9170$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161050170.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Good point, I had not thought of it that way!

Sg


~
~Ah, but that would spoil it ;-)
[.............................."


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 13:29:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHTaHP026907
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:29:36 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHRZUw020020
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:27:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHRVwu006751;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:27:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com
	(fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHRSwu006624
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:27:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.96.88])
	by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP
	<20030616172722.JIMY487659.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR>
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:27:22 -0400
Message-ID: <00c701c3342c$89e49450$6401a8c0@VALINOR>
From: "Herself-the-Elf" <herself-the-elf@rogers.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3ED766E40001C636@mk-cpfrontend-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:27:18 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at
	fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.96.88] using ID
	<herself-the-elf@rogers.com> at Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:27:21 -0400
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics (www.designerfabrics.to),
carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's really
narrow fabric).  Alas....if only I had that kind of cash to throw around...

-- Maral

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rachel" <reholliday@lineone.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 3:13 AM
Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet


> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to order
> basis.  I can get hold of some but it is very expensive.  The best quote
> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus VAT
> and shipping.  The won't do any less than a metre.  So for the moment at
> least it is out of most peoples pockets.  Basically if you see anything
> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine article.
>  If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass on
> the details.
>
> Rachel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 13:50:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHoJHP027082
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:50:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHmVUw022839
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:48:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHmTwu022591;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:48:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHmOwv022519
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:48:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[63.207.101.100])h5GHnWAe004745
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:48:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <00c701c3342c$89e49450$6401a8c0@VALINOR>
Message-Id: <B458B495-A022-11D7-A36B-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5GHmOwv022519
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

What category is it under?  or is it not on the website?

I don't see it under silks or velvets.


On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:27 AM, Herself-the-Elf wrote:

> My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics 
> (www.designerfabrics.to),
> carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's 
> really
> narrow fabric).  Alas....if only I had that kind of cash to throw 
> around...
>
> -- Maral
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rachel" <reholliday@lineone.net>
> To: <h-costume@indra.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 3:13 AM
> Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
>
>
>> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to 
>> order
>> basis.  I can get hold of some but it is very expensive.  The best 
>> quote
>> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus 
>> VAT
>> and shipping.  The won't do any less than a metre.  So for the moment 
>> at
>> least it is out of most peoples pockets.  Basically if you see 
>> anything
>> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine 
>> article.
>>  If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass 
>> on
>> the details.
>>
>> Rachel
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 14:00:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI0nHP027194
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHs3Uw023652
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:54:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHs1wu026893;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:54:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5GHrxwu026810
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:53:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWllHADLlMNV89/UIzdKb83n09kTHqOhGNA==">; Mon, 16 Jun 2003
	10:53:28 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2TJ3CSR; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:53:28 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:46:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
Message-ID: <20030616.135300.-270247.4.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: catpurson@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Fantastic.  The whole gown and partlet are beautiful!!!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 14:04:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI42HP027212
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:04:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI2FUw024932
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:02:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI2Cpn003919;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:02:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI0apn002531
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:00:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.47.2f2d3102 (16930)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <47.2f2d3102.2c1f5fb9@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:25 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/16/03 11:40:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
robin@shell.nightowl.net writes:

> Ah, but that would spoil it ;-)

I'm going to chirp in and say that Robin's probably right- the site's very 
funny and (dare I say it?) "useful" as is.  Especially since I remember 
"amihotornot.com".

By the way, Robin....
how would you feel about coming and speaking at Carnegie Mellon sometime in 
the fall?  We've got an SCA chapter, and I'm *dying* to hear the two lectures 
that I missed at CostumeCon.  Especially since I've been wanting to make a 
sideless surcoat and undergown.  Pittsburgh is a central location, too!  (Well, 
no.  Not really.  I'm just trying to be persuasive.  Did it work?)

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 14:07:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI7rHP027222
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:07:53 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI61Uw025449
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:06:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI60pn006723;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:06:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com
	(fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GI5upn006626
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:05:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from VALINOR ([65.50.96.88])
	by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP
	<20030616180550.JTKN171206.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR>
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:05:50 -0400
Message-ID: <012801c33431$e9bc00c0$6401a8c0@VALINOR>
From: "Herself-the-Elf" <herself-the-elf@rogers.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <B458B495-A022-11D7-A36B-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:05:47 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at
	fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.50.96.88] using ID
	<herself-the-elf@rogers.com> at Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:05:50 -0400
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I don't think they have everything on the website...I've seen the velvet in
their store, though, so if you email them they can probably help.

-- Maral

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather Meadows" <alice@wonderland.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet


> What category is it under?  or is it not on the website?
>
> I don't see it under silks or velvets.
>
>
> On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:27 AM, Herself-the-Elf wrote:
>
> > My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics
> > (www.designerfabrics.to),
> > carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's
> > really
> > narrow fabric).  Alas....if only I had that kind of cash to throw
> > around...
> >
> > -- Maral
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rachel" <reholliday@lineone.net>
> > To: <h-costume@indra.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 3:13 AM
> > Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
> >
> >
> >> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to
> >> order
> >> basis.  I can get hold of some but it is very expensive.  The best
> >> quote
> >> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus
> >> VAT
> >> and shipping.  The won't do any less than a metre.  So for the moment
> >> at
> >> least it is out of most peoples pockets.  Basically if you see
> >> anything
> >> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine
> >> article.
> >>  If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass
> >> on
> >> the details.
> >>
> >> Rachel
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 14:30:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIU5HP027291
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:30:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIS3Uw000146
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:28:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIS1pn024486;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:28:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIRupn024427
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:27:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28045
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:50:52 -0500
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:50:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-Reply-To: <47.2f2d3102.2c1f5fb9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161348510.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:

> By the way, Robin.... how would you feel about coming and speaking at
> Carnegie Mellon sometime in the fall?  We've got an SCA chapter, and
> I'm *dying* to hear the two lectures that I missed at CostumeCon.  
> Especially since I've been wanting to make a sideless surcoat and
> undergown.  Pittsburgh is a central location, too!  (Well, no.  Not
> really.  I'm just trying to be persuasive.  Did it work?)

I've responded to Christine directly, but I should probably note that I
don't set up my own lecture trips, so I don't decide where I'll be going.
If a group wants to bring me out, I'm happy to work with them to make that
happen.

Upcoming plans: I'll be in Seattle in August, Denver in October (as a
guest speaker at the SCA's Known World Costume Symposium), and Boston in
November.

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 14:56:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIuBHP027458
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:56:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIsOUw002964
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:54:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIsKpn012848;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:54:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from zinc (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GIsFpn012791
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:54:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host217-39-15-216.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.15.216]
	helo=dan)	by zinc with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23)	id 19Rz7O-0005NA-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:54:14 +0100
Message-ID: <001f01c33438$a8d5c260$d80f27d9@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EEDD340.5060001@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:54:04 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere,

It's magnificent! 

yours, in awe,

Stevie


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deredere Galbraith" <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
To: "H-Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 3:25 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!


> Hi,
> 
> Yes it is finished!!!!!
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html
> 
> Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) .
> 
> Greetings,
>         Deredere
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 15:34:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJYMHP027672
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:34:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJWSUw007532
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:32:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJWPEA010824;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:32:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f151.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.151])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJWMEA010738
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:32:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:32:17 -0700
Received: from 151.199.158.192 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:32:17 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [151.199.158.192]
X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com]
From: "Nancy Kiel" <nancy_kiel@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon?
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:32:17 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Sea1-F151rNWW3aY0He000607a5@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2003 19:32:17.0487 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[FF2685F0:01C3343D]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I thought the "velvet" part related technically to how the fabric was cut, 
so rayon velvet is made of rayon fibers and cut to have a nap, so you could 
have velvet made of any type of fabric in theory.  I expect we see mostly 
rayon because that's the cheapest type to produce.



Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.





>> >
>>Somehow I doubt that velvets from the Renaissance were 80% rayon.  But
>>someone posted today about linen velvet - that I've never heard of.
>>
>>Janet
>
>
>There was also wool velvet - I've recently found reference being used in 
>either late 16th or early 17th century England but off the top of my head I 
>can't remember where the reference is...
>
>Cheers,
>Danielle

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 15:53:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJrtHP027756
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:53:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJq0Uw010025
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:52:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJpwKN026414;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:51:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJptKN026264
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:51:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.57.1e46299f (15898)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:51:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-m02.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.130]) by
	air-id09.mx.aol.com (v93.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID91-3e1a3eee1fd32a7; Mon, 16
	Jun 2003 15:51:47 -0400
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:51:47 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <1C1D40D9.14016F86.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: [h-cost] Seven works of mercy - help! :)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi-

I just recently became aware of a privately held Pieter Breughel the Younger (or contemporary) painting of the seven works of mercy.  Cannot find a picture of it in books or anywhere else - anyone have a hint?

Constance
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 15:56:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJuPHP027764
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:56:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJsXUw010325
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:54:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJsWKN028445;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:54:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net
	(smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5GJsTKN028405
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:54:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 29781 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 19:54:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.166.66.24)
  by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 19:54:28 -0000
Message-ID: <006c01c33441$1b63cdb0$1842a6d0@castlebooks>
From: "Janet Davis" <castle@erie.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3ED766E40001C636@mk-cpfrontend-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com>
	<00c701c3342c$89e49450$6401a8c0@VALINOR>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:54:30 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics
(www.designerfabrics.to),
> carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's really
> narrow fabric).

Thanks for posting the site (I think).  Not that I need any more fabric or
anything but they have some very nice things.

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 16:02:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GK2LHP027800
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:02:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GK0PUw010947
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GK0KWa002976;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GK07Wa002690
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C62BEE84
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:00:02 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EEE226F.6030202@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:02:55 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

I am looking for more information of this portrait.
http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg

Greetings,
        Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 16:10:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKASHP027826
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:10:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GK8aUw012168
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:08:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GK8XWa009291;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:08:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail3.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-3.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.3]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GK88Wa008948
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:08:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail3.plugit.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3A7BE0072; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:08:07 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3A3647006A; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:08:03 -0500
Message-ID: <013201c33443$22034a40$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "h-costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:09:02 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
Subject: [h-cost] Testing
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Just testing to see if this message goes through.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 16:18:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKI8HP027862
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:18:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKGJUw013086
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:16:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKGGWa015221;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:16:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail3.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-3.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.3]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKGCWa015161
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:16:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail3.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A58C34DC0060; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:16:12 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A58C6C5008C; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:16:12 -0500
Message-ID: <013f01c33444$446fbd60$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <013201c33443$22034a40$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:17:07 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thank you Eliza, Kimiko, and Robin for helping me find out what the problem
was on my end.  The problem has been resolved.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 16:18:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKIdHP027868
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:18:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKGpUw013168
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:16:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKGoWa015683;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:16:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKGkWa015608
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:16:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bently (dialport41.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.159.233])
	by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA14397
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <002b01c33444$4339fc80$e99fbbd0@bently>
From: "David" <someone@eskimo.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161348510.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:17:06 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

From: "Robin Netherton" <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
> 
> Upcoming plans: I'll be in Seattle in August, 

Where, and when in August?

Pam Dotson


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 16:54:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKsgHP027982
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:54:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKqjUw017388
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:52:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKqdWa012206;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:52:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail2.mackie.com [12.144.237.152])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKqWWa012101
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:52:32 -0600 (MDT)
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:21:42 -0700
Message-ID: <A2F924FDD3D70E4A96CFD73B7196A00304C00328@WDNE2K.mackie.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Thread-Index: AcM0RK3UCS/BSoVzTx6NE5raJy7yYAAAACMw
From: "Colleen McDonald" <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5GKqWWa012101
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Upcoming plans: I'll be in Seattle in August, 

Where, and when in August?

Pam Dotson>>

August 9th in Woodinville

I can send you all of the details, if you'd like, Pam.  I'm the one organizing the event ;-)

If anyone else is interested, let me know and I will email the information privately.

Colleen

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 16:55:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKtIHP027991
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:55:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKrUUw017544
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:53:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKrMWa012947;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:53:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail2.mackie.com [12.144.237.152])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKqWWc012101
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:52:35 -0600 (MDT)
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:47:46 -0700
Message-ID: <A2F924FDD3D70E4A96CFD73B7196A00304C0032C@WDNE2K.mackie.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: Anyone seen this source?
Thread-Index: AcM0SIXtP/Cr+a8mQsK+K0A0QpkRqg==
From: "Colleen McDonald" <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5GKqWWc012101
Subject: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I found this book listed on www.abebooks.com this morning and I was wondering if anyone on this list actually seen it or could give me commentary on it?  It sounds like it could have a lot of good stuff for what I'm researching, but $90 US is a lot to pay for a source when I don't know how useful it will be.

KLESSE, Brigitte.
Die Darstellung von Seidenstoffen auf italienischen Bildern des 14. Jahrhunderts. [Cologne?] 1958.
 	[4] 128 [2]p. 15 x 21. Paper. - Dissertation; Universität Köln. A scholarly study & classification of the textile motifs found in 14th c Italian painting, especially in the depiction of costume. Extensive references throughout; bibl, p108-17. Important study, later expanded with illustrations & published in 1967. [CSROT 2516]. Bookseller Inventory #(IG354)

Thanks!

Colleen


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 17:16:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLG8HP028054
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:16:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLEIUw020091
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:14:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLEGcU028894;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:14:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLEEcU028864
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:14:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19S1Iq-0005JW-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:14:13 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source?
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:14:10 -0700
Message-ID: <000b01c3344c$3c499540$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <A2F924FDD3D70E4A96CFD73B7196A00304C0032C@WDNE2K.mackie.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5GLEEcU028864
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

No but, it also mean from silk fabric/textile goods.  Which makes it
even more interesting.

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Colleen McDonald
~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 1:48 PM
~To: h-costume@indra.com
~Subject: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source?
~
~I found this book listed on www.abebooks.com this morning and I was
wondering if
~anyone on this list actually seen it or could give me commentary on it?
It sounds like
~it could have a lot of good stuff for what I'm researching, but $90 US
is a lot to pay
~for a source when I don't know how useful it will be.
~
~KLESSE, Brigitte.
~Die Darstellung von Seidenstoffen auf italienischen Bildern des 14.
Jahrhunderts.
~[Cologne?] 1958.
~ 	[4] 128 [2]p. 15 x 21. Paper. - Dissertation; Universität Köln.
A scholarly study
~& classification of the textile motifs found in 14th c Italian
painting, especially in the
~depiction of costume. Extensive references throughout; bibl, p108-17.
Important
~study, later expanded with illustrations & published in 1967. [CSROT
2516].
~Bookseller Inventory #(IG354)
~
~Thanks!
~
~Colleen
~
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 17:30:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLUdHP028093
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:30:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLSnUw021903
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:28:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLSlcU009652;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:28:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sccrmhc11.attbi.com (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLSjcU009577
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:28:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from fenris.net
	(12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender))
	by attbi.com (sccrmhc11) with SMTP
	id <20030616212837011007t75ge>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:28:39 +0000
Message-ID: <3EEE3687.2030801@fenris.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:28:39 -0700
From: Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses
References: <3EEE226F.6030202@kabelfoon.nl>
In-Reply-To: <3EEE226F.6030202@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am looking for more information of this portrait.
> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg
>
> Greetings,
>        Deredere

Boucher, in 20,000 Years of Fashion, p 223, plate 443, gives this as 
Isabella of Portugal, Wife of Charles V, c. 1535 Madrid, Prado. By Titian

scrumptious!

liz young


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 17:39:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLdqHP028120
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:39:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLZsUw022828
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:35:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLZqcU014970;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:35:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLZkcU014906
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:35:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from user-12hc5uq.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.23.218]
	helo=earthlink.net)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19S1di-00028S-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:35:46 -0700
Message-ID: <3EEE385D.7040909@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:36:29 -0500
From: Charlene Charette <perronnelle@earthlink.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US;
	rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161050170.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161050170.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Robin Netherton wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> 
>>I think it is a great idea.  I wonder if you could work up some
>>criteria for people to go by?  Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or
>>perhaps a couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up
>>what they go by....looking forward to seeing how it develops!
> 
> 
> Ah, but that would spoil it ;-)
> 
> I get the impression that the site is really about, well, impressions --
> that is, would the average SCA member, seeing you at an event, get a
> "period" feel from your visual look? Do you contribute to the period
> atmosphere on a gut level, for people who may not be "educated" enough to
> understand the details and decisions of your clothing?
> 
> That's very different from situations where you provide documentation and
> explain the details and reasons for what you've done, which is what
> happens in competitions, classes, and formal displays. Those activities
> can educate the group members and raise standards over the long run, of
> course.
> 
> The responses on this site say as much about the general knowledge level
> of the respondents as they do about the clothing of the individuals. I
> don't see it as an assessment only of the clothes, or as any sort of valid
> competition for costume quality -- more of a "finger on the pulse" of the
> community level of understanding. A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern
> materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience
> interprets as "medieval." And while that may not be great historic
> costuming, it can contribute positively to the other participants'
> experience because of how it affects the atmosphere of an event.
> 
> --Robin
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

-- 
You can fool too many people too much of the time.  -- James Thurber

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 17:40:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLeVHP028126
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:40:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLbdUw023094
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:37:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLbccU016352;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:37:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5GLbZcU016297
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:37:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 14804 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 21:37:34 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50)
  by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 21:37:34 -0000
Received: from 162.119.64.111
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com)
        by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP;
        Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <13927.162.119.64.111.1055799454.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses
From: <dch@inreach.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EEE226F.6030202@kabelfoon.nl>
References: <3EEE226F.6030202@kabelfoon.nl>
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Hi,
>
> I am looking for more information of this portrait.
> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg
>

The portrait is Isabella of Portugal.  What else do you want to know?

Diana


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 17:52:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLq4HP028151
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:52:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLnxUw024529
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:50:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLnwcU025108;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:49:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLnscU025073
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:49:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by keaton.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGL003B0GN4NR@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:18:43 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
In-reply-to: <3EEDD340.5060001@kabelfoon.nl>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030616141640.00af8268@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Wow Deredere,

That just looks wonderful! Congratulations on finishing this exquisite 
outfit. I am glad to see someone who has replicated this garment, and very 
well, too. You have given me something great to aspire to reach.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Kimiko



At 04:25 PM 6/16/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Yes it is finished!!!!!
>http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 17:52:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLqEHP028154
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:52:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLoGUw024568
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:50:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLoDcU025279;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:50:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GLnscW025073
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:49:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by keaton.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGL003B0GN4NR@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:49:54 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:34:30 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
In-reply-to: <010301c3339c$ec667c00$c742a6d0@castlebooks>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030616142434.02dd3df0@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi all,

I have a question that may have been dealt with before, but I wanted to ask 
anyway.

I was looking at the site 
http://www.amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=29, and the comment 
about the silk partlet "the parlet looks satin-y... is that just an 
artifact of the picture?"

This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing 
this time period? Why or why not?

I have a large image of Hans Holbein's "The Ambassadors", and the pink 
sleeves and underdoublet appear to be satin. Is this not the reality of the 
textiles of the period? Not to mention other paintings I have seen. 
Clouet's "Portrait of Francis I" is another that seems to show a shiny satin.

I ask, because I want to do a nobles dress in silk charmeuse, which I think 
will be thick enough and soft enough, is breathable, dyeable and washable. 
However, if it is not appropriate, I would like to know which modern silks 
would be appropriate for replicating gowns of this time period.

Thanks for any and all replies.

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 18:05:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GM5oHP028181
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:05:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GM3uUw026084
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:03:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GM3rlC005615;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:03:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5GM3mlC005530
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:03:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 44121 invoked by uid 1005); 16 Jun 2003 22:03:34 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.078145 secs); 16 Jun 2003 22:03:34 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.078145 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 22:03:34 -0000
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:03:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030616142434.02dd3df0@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030616180108.C25512-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
> This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing
> this time period? Why or why not?

Silk came in both shiny and non-shiny/duller weaves.  Satin was a popular
fabric of the time; their silk satin was much stiffer than the charmeuse
silk you find nowadays. You can still buy heavy silk satin from places
like Thai Silks, but you'll be shelling out $20 to $30/yd for the heavy
stiff stuff that best replicates the 16th c. look.

 I've found that you can get a relatively accurate "look" by backing
charmeuse satin with a stiff canvas or similar stiff fabric.

Good luck,

Drea

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 18:07:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GM7PHP028185
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:07:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GM5XUw026333
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:05:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GM5WlC006967;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:05:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GM5TlC006924
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:05:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19S26R-0005rq-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:05:27 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:05:21 -0700
Message-ID: <003301c33453$64b09590$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030616142434.02dd3df0@127.0.0.1>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I have lots of examples in my electronic stash of pictures representing
shiny silk-totally period for a broad range of time within the
renaissance.  If you need examples I would be happy to send them to you
or load them up on my (under-reconstruction) website.  

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Kimiko Small
~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 2:35 PM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
~
~Hi all,
~
~I have a question that may have been dealt with before, but I wanted to
ask
~anyway.
~
~I was looking at the site
~http://www.amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=29, and the
comment
~about the silk partlet "the parlet looks satin-y... is that just an
~artifact of the picture?"
~
~This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny
duing
~this time period? Why or why not?
~
~I have a large image of Hans Holbein's "The Ambassadors", and the pink
~sleeves and underdoublet appear to be satin. Is this not the reality of
the
~textiles of the period? Not to mention other paintings I have seen.
~Clouet's "Portrait of Francis I" is another that seems to show a shiny
satin.
~
~I ask, because I want to do a nobles dress in silk charmeuse, which I
think
~will be thick enough and soft enough, is breathable, dyeable and
washable.
~However, if it is not appropriate, I would like to know which modern
silks
~would be appropriate for replicating gowns of this time period.
~
~Thanks for any and all replies.
~
~Kimiko
~
~
~Kimiko Small
~Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
~kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
~"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell
~
~Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
~http://www.costumegallery.com
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 18:21:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GMLmHP028200
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:21:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GMJvUw028114
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:19:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GMJulC016820;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:19:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GMJplC016712
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:19:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.84.1341406f (15877)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:19:43 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-d13.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.129]) by
	air-id07.mx.aol.com (v93.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID74-3e053eee427f11; Mon, 16
	Jun 2003 18:19:43 -0400
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:19:43 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3AFFE677.0CF5E7CC.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I think all of the judges should have IDs so you can rate the judges. :)  Some of the comments suprised me more than the costumes.

Constance

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 19:06:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GN6FHP028353
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:06:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GN40Uw002811
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:04:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GN3vq2016282;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:03:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net
	(smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5GN3sq2016245
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:03:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 15178 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 23:03:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.166.66.178)
  by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 23:03:53 -0000
Message-ID: <002301c3345b$9128bbe0$b242a6d0@castlebooks>
From: "Janet Davis" <castle@erie.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <3EEE226F.6030202@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:03:56 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The Web Gallery of Art http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html  has a nice
large reproduction.  The only information given about it is that it was
commissioned by her husband Charles V in 1548, after the lady had been dead
for 10 years!

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 19:52:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GNqdHP028434
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:52:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GNoSUw008891
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:50:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GNoPq2016153;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:50:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GNoMq2016127
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:50:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19S3jw-00009W-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:50:20 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:50:19 -0700
Message-ID: <004501c33462$0b8c2880$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <002301c3345b$9128bbe0$b242a6d0@castlebooks>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I never noticed it before on this portrait, but are those pins I see
running up the bodice?

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Janet Davis
~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 4:04 PM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish
prinses
~
~The Web Gallery of Art http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html  has a
nice
~large reproduction.  The only information given about it is that it was
~commissioned by her husband Charles V in 1548, after the lady had been
dead
~for 10 years!
~
~Janet
~
~Janet Davis
~Castle Furnishings
~http://www.medievalbookstore.com
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 20:00:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H00RHP028468
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:00:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GNvjUw009546
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:57:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GNvcGF020456;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:57:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GNvZGF020399
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:57:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19S3qx-0003RF-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:35 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:28 -0700
Message-ID: <004601c33463$0ee410a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <002301c3345b$9128bbe0$b242a6d0@castlebooks>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Relationship of Isabel and Eleanor of Austria and Isabel or
	Portugal-Norris again.....was portrait of Spanish princess
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The portrait of Isabel by Titian has always made me wonder about the
'portrait' Norris has of Eleanor of Austria, Queen of Portugal on Plate
XL (also on the cover).  The two women look very much alike and I have
never seen the 'real' portrait his painting is based on.  Any one know
if there really is a full portrait of Eleanor and if there is any
relationship between her and Isabel?

Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 20:26:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0QTHP028552
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:26:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0OcUw012164
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:24:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0OaGF006157;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:24:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [64.8.50.205] (may be
	forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0OYGF006057
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:24:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adelphia.net ([68.65.178.207]) by mta11.adelphia.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP
          id <20030617002428.DUYU1549.mta11.adelphia.net@adelphia.net>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:24:28 -0400
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:24:27 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551)
From: rob and laurie gage <randl@adelphia.net>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <200306161505.h5GF57ia027587@net.indra.com>
Message-Id: <0E484518-A05A-11D7-AE12-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551)
Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 330
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

the v&a has an example of wool velvet in the textile display, c.16th c. 
on the far back wall of the first room. on the left. kind of a 
grey-blue...
yeah, i think it's time to make the trip back:)
laurie
On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 11:05 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com 
wrote:

> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:25:55 -0500
> From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap
> 	rayon?
> To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030615202455.02ddaeb0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>

> There was also wool velvet - I've recently found reference being used 
> in
> either late 16th or early 17th century England but off the top of my 
> head I
> can't remember where the reference is...
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 20:34:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0YXHP028571
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:34:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0WHUw013144
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:32:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0WGGF010752;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:32:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.136.129.108])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5H0WEGF010729
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:32:14 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030617003213.71062.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:32:13 PDT
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:32:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: KATHRYN WOLTERS <albrakat7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EEDD340.5060001@kabelfoon.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

That is absolutely stunning,Deredere About how many hours of work did you lavish on this project?
Albra

Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl> wrote:
Hi,

Yes it is finished!!!!!
http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html

Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) .

Greetings,
Deredere



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 20:38:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0cvHP028580
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:38:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0bEUw013775
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:37:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0bDGF013799;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:37:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web9402.mail.yahoo.com (web9402.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.136.129.108])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5H0bBGF013771
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:37:11 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030617003710.71338.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:37:10 PDT
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: KATHRYN WOLTERS <albrakat7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle 
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <000601c33419$68bd77a0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

While I, on the other hand, adore the Regency styles ---and used La Mode Bagatelle's patterns to make a whole wardrobe for a Regency weekend:) Yes, they are terrific patterns.One day --I hope to own the pattern for the Artistic Reform Tea Gown as well. Sigh!! 
Albra

Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net> wrote:


Aren't those great patterns! I don't care much for the Regency style,
but I have the Artistic Reform Tea gown.
http://lamodebagatelle.com/art.htm
I want to make it for my cousin who has this lovely 'plantation' in the
south...

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 20:59:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0xPHP028624
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:59:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0vbUw015362
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:57:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0vZkO023908;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:57:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0vVkP023871
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:57:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5H0vgHe018932
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:57:42 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5H0vfZu018930
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:57:41 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:57:41 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161050170.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161050170.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306162057.41456.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5H0vVkP023871
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Monday 16 June 2003 11:57 am, Robin Netherton wrote:
[text cut here]

> The responses on this site say as much about the general knowledge level
> of the respondents as they do about the clothing of the individuals. I
> don't see it as an assessment only of the clothes, or as any sort of valid
> competition for costume quality -- more of a "finger on the pulse" of the
> community level of understanding. 

Of course.  After all, it's hard to judge whether the fabrics used even *look*  
authentic on the basis of a mediocre-quality picture on a website.  I can 
easily imagine that many costumes that might photograph well, and have a 
convincing appearance in a photograph, would look grossly modern when viewed 
directly in good light.

>A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern
> materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience
> interprets as "medieval." And while that may not be great historic
> costuming, it can contribute positively to the other participants'
> experience because of how it affects the atmosphere of an event.

Also true.  

I found the site to be a lot of fun, but it seems to me that the folk who 
voted were basing their opinion on general appearance rather than specifics.

-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 21:00:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H100HP028629
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:00:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0wEUw015419
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:58:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0wEkO024299;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:58:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H0wBkO024276
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:58:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-18-78.o1.jps.net ([216.119.18.78] helo=pavilion)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19S4na-0007m0-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:58:11 -0700
Message-ID: <006001c3346d$9f115a20$4e1277d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000401c33418$a2341e90$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:09:31 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I had a look at the site, its fun!  I'm working on some standards to put on
my web site (due June 30th - at midnight no doubt) which I was going to use
as a guide for a historical costumers directory, but who to include and who
not too seemed a bit bigger than Ben Hur.   For the moment and I've decided
to concentrate on a "find a portrait" database.  That will keep me busy
enough.  The directory might come later.  maybe.  It would be nice.  A
directory of people who do custom historical clothing.  Knowing me, I'd
probably offend everyone!  ugghhh

I'll have some standards for my own work though if anyone is interested in
knowing just what I think museum quality, reenactment, fair, theatrical or
inspired means in terms of seam finishes, fabric choice etc.

One thing I have been doing over the last year is collecting period sewing
tools and I photographed them over the weekend, including a 1450 pair of
scissors I managed to lay my hands on and they will be on my site as well as
some period buttons.  I really should have been an heiress.  I could spend
all day doing this!

Lisa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Cc: "'Lisa Sinervo'" <Lisa@threadneedlest.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts


> I think it is a great idea.  I wonder if you could work up some criteria
> for people to go by?   Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or perhaps a
> couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up what they go
> by....looking forward to seeing how it develops!
>
> "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
> Isocrates
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 22:13:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2DCHP028735
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:13:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2BIUw022023
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:11:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2BFve004143;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:11:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao07.cox.net (lakemtao07.cox.net [68.1.17.114])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2BCve004044
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:11:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao07.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030617021105.WWKP4514.lakemtao07.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:11:05 -0400
Message-ID: <058d01c33475$b70aeb70$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <003301c33453$64b09590$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:11:07 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

(Disclaimer--Not My Period.)

I think the commentor was not suggesting that satin wasn't period, but
rather that it may not have been the norm for a _partlet_. From my memory of
illustrations/portraits/etc of the time, most of the partlets were more
along sheer or at least lightweight lines. (Excepting the dress-matching
ones like those Mary Tudor is often shown wearing.)

By the way, I think it would really help if the person posting the picture
could attach a short description directly to the picture, somehow.. one that
everyone who votes on the outfit would see. Like "Flemish noblewoman's gown
based on a 1509 painting by Gerard David" or even something generic like
"mid 16th C. English merchant." Or better yet, a short paragraph! If nothing
else, those who have some sort of graphics utility could type in a few words
at the bottom before they upload their picture.

As to the actual voting... it is interesting to see the general level of
knowledge people have about Not My Period garments. I mean, yeah, I could
tell instantly that the post-1600 guy was out of the SCA period--although,
the website's title is only "Am I Period Or Not" rather than "Am I SCA
Period Or Not." =} But I couldn't do more than judge the design and
construction abilities of most of the periods represented there, or notice
dead obvious stuff like, ykno, zippers or Victorianisms. I just haven't
looked closely enough at those to be able to judge the details like depth of
trim, necklines, choice of decoration, etc. And yet I want to see the
comments on that picture, and the next picture, so I vote anyway. I just
give 'em a straight 7 unless I'm familiar enough with the period to be able
to begin to judge.

And a text description provided by the person in question would help with
that problem... I could pop open my several gig image files, browse to the
right time period, and do a bit of compare and contrast.  I still wouldn't
be able to judge like I could judge a garment from c1500 Flanders, or even
most times during the 15th century, but I could give a much fairer try and
make comments/ask questions that are more to the point. Turn the site into
resource rather than recess.

E


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 22:51:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2ppHP028810
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:51:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2nwUw025273
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:49:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2nvve023813;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:49:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2nsve023767
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:49:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao05.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030617024950.RUDA28938.lakemtao05.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:49:50 -0400
Message-ID: <05b501c3347b$1f6377a0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306161050170.26737-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
	<200306162057.41456.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:49:50 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern
> materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience
> interprets as "medieval."

And then, there are those eras & areas where a super-authentic recreation
STILL looks pre-Raphaelite... (great big 15th C. Flemish square-necked
kirtle sigh... OK, not really, cuz they're So. Dang. Pretty. Or, "Those are
Godspeed sleeves!" when they're Christine de Pisan-type 'integral
tippets'...)

E

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 23:00:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H30kHP028831
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:00:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2x0Uw025862
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:59:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2wxmS027873;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:58:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from newbabe.mengwong.com (newbabe.mengwong.com [208.210.125.227])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H2wumS027845
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:58:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: by newbabe.mengwong.com (Postfix, from userid 669)
	id 62EAB1F683; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:58:55 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:58:55 -0400
From: "Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)" <katherine@infotrope.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Message-ID: <20030617025855.GA31896@infotrope.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <058d01c33475$b70aeb70$0400a8c0@compaqub>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

E wrote:
> And a text description provided by the person in question would help with
> that problem... I could pop open my several gig image files, browse to the
> right time period, and do a bit of compare and contrast.  I still wouldn't
> be able to judge like I could judge a garment from c1500 Flanders, or even
> most times during the 15th century, but I could give a much fairer try and
> make comments/ask questions that are more to the point. Turn the site into
> resource rather than recess.


OK, You've talked me into it.  I've added a description field.  Anyone who
wants theirs updated to include a description, drop me an email with your
picture ID.

K.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 16 23:10:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H3A8HP028854
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:10:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H38IUw026887
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:08:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H38HmS003803;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:08:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao06.cox.net (lakemtao06.cox.net [68.1.17.115])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H38CmS003721
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:08:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao06.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030617030806.YDAA23505.lakemtao06.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:08:06 -0400
Message-ID: <05ba01c3347d$adbeb9e0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030617025855.GA31896@infotrope.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:08:08 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yay! I thought I remembered seeing some amIblankornot having some
descriptions, but I wasn't sure if it could be done.

E

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)" <katherine@infotrope.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com


> OK, You've talked me into it.  I've added a description field.  Anyone who
> wants theirs updated to include a description, drop me an email with your
> picture ID.
>
> K.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 00:02:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H428HP028941
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:02:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H40IUw001446
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:00:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H40Hlx029570;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:00:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H40Elx029501
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:00:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m155.in-tch.com [216.166.191.155])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5H3fRj29658
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:41:27 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EEE92AF.9D5CBD25@in-tch.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:01:51 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306131629410.12068-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Looks like something out of Escher, doesn't it?
--sue

Robin Netherton wrote:
> 
> Me, though, I'm looking at the wonderful example of medieval perspective
> in this illumination -- especially the right-hand doorway (look at the
> top) and the angle of the shutters on the back center window. I'm getting
> dizzy...
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 00:10:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4AfHP028964
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:10:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H48sUw002093
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:08:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H48rlx003872;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:08:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rwcrmhc13.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H48olx003816
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:08:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from fenris.net
	(12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender))
	by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP
	id <2003061704084501500dblume>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:08:45 +0000
Message-ID: <3EEE9454.30400@fenris.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:08:52 -0700
From: Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk 
References: <20030616080118.59600.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030616080118.59600.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

N Kipar wrote:

> --- Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net> wrote: > 
>
>  
>
>>I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark green
>>rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into? Or
>>shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a couple
>>of creases), and sell it on eBay?
>>    
>>
>
>What a shame you are on another continent! I just said to Teddy that I am
>looking for a nice dark green velvet for an artistic teagown made with the La
>Mode Bagatelle pattern. Poots! Would have bought it off you, but postage is too
>much. :-(
>
>  
>
Ooooh, which pattern elements are you going to use for your dress? I 
just ordered that pattern, and have been drooling over it, even if it is 
not here yet.

liz young


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 00:36:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4aEHP029000
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:36:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4TMUw003734
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:29:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4TLlx013600;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:29:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4TGlx013563
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:29:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30685
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:52:14 -0500
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:52:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
In-Reply-To: <058d01c33475$b70aeb70$0400a8c0@compaqub>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306162350060.30659-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, E House wrote:

> By the way, I think it would really help if the person posting the
> picture could attach a short description directly to the picture,
> somehow.. one that everyone who votes on the outfit would see. Like
> "Flemish noblewoman's gown based on a 1509 painting by Gerard David"
> or even something generic like "mid 16th C. English merchant." Or
> better yet, a short paragraph! If nothing else, those who have some
> sort of graphics utility could type in a few words at the bottom
> before they upload their picture.

Then again, when you *see* someone at an event, they don't get to wear a
label saying what period they're aiming for...

> ...I just haven't looked closely enough at those to be able to judge
> the details like depth of trim, necklines, choice of decoration, etc.
> And yet I want to see the comments on that picture, and the next
> picture, so I vote anyway. I just give 'em a straight 7 unless I'm
> familiar enough with the period to be able to begin to judge.

Unless I'm terribly mistaken, you don't have to vote in order to see the
pictures. I haven't been voting (not my place -- I'm not in the SCA and
won't presume to judge what should go over), and I just hit the "random
pic" link on the left to move on.

--Robin

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 00:46:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4kwHP029015
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:46:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4jCUw005347
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:45:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4j7lx021481;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:45:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H4j1lx021381
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:45:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.168.2022ec1a (30970)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:44:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <168.2022ec1a.2c1ff6c5@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:44:53 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 12:36:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
robin@shell.nightowl.net writes:

> Unless I'm terribly mistaken, you don't have to vote in order to see the
> pictures. I haven't been voting (not my place -- I'm not in the SCA and
> won't presume to judge what should go over), and I just hit the "random
> pic" link on the left to move on.

Nope, voting isn't mandatory.  I've voted.  I mean, c'mon.  There's two guys 
on there that you can't possibly resist- they've got terribly impressive 
codpieces.  I mean, one's bejewelled!  But then, I think he may have been playing a 
very impressive noble, or the king.  There's some very nicely done garb on 
there.  And I think I saw Drea!  Or not, but she sure looked like Drea, 
middle/lower class Flemish.  The picture was a bit blurry, so I couldn't be sure.
But hey, there was a Japanese costume/garb picture too.  Impressively done, 
though I was pondering SCAness.  Didn't vote because I thought it was too 
lovely/well-done to whine.  By the way, did anyone see the "Judith" (I think the 
name is Judith) type picture?  With the head?  I was very amused.  I mean, 
granted it was a photo manip, but it was great!  Besides..no one really wants a guy 
to lose his head.  That would ruin the garb!

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 01:04:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H54VHP029049
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:04:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H51UUw006894
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:01:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H51Rtr029382;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:01:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao08.cox.net (lakemtao08.cox.net [68.1.17.113])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H51Otr029311
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:01:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao08.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030617050118.EFII7627.lakemtao08.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:01:18 -0400
Message-ID: <05cd01c3348d$7e025120$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <168.2022ec1a.2c1ff6c5@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:01:15 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Nah, you don't have to vote. But it's a lot easier to see the comments for
each if you do, and I'm getting all sorts of kick out of them.

And I don't GO to events. I'm not in the SCA or any other reenactment, etc
group. =} All my spare time is spoken for; websites are my main
costume-viewing venue.

E

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 01:06:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H56THP029054
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:06:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H54bUw007181
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:04:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H54btr001025;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:04:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H52ftr029959
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:02:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p1150-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.196.134] 
	by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19S8c9-0003lr-00; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:02:37 +1200
Message-ID: <3EEEA0BD.70308@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:01:49 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
References: <3AFFE677.0CF5E7CC.349D0FDF@cs.com>
In-Reply-To: <3AFFE677.0CF5E7CC.349D0FDF@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> I think all of the judges should have IDs so you can rate the judges.
> :)  Some of the comments suprised me more than the costumes.

I absolutely second that opinion.. A few comments I read and thought.. 
What??? Using sweeping generalisations without actually looking at the 
era the garment is supposed to represent.

And how that bloke with a dalmation spotted fake fur over coat (shaube?) 
got an average of 9... Great work on the cossie.. but period?

Nice to look at garb that hasn't been seen elsewhere though:) I mean, a 
lot of those people probably don't have their own site and so we get to 
see the photos through being hosted by this one:)

I won't be uploading my orange burgundian;) I can just imagine all the 
people saying but it's such a modern colour;) never mind that orange 
dyes are available either side and that I've seen more than a few 
(repros of) paintings with a tint very similar;)

Speaking of which, must get back to allpying the velvet trim.. sigh...

michaela
http://costumes.glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 01:22:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H5MiHP029086
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:22:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H5L0Uw008433
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:21:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H5Kxtr008467;
	Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:20:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H5Kutr008417
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:20:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.129.2c60ee7c (30970)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:20:46 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 1:09:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:

> I absolutely second that opinion.. A few comments I read and thought.. 
> What??? Using sweeping generalisations without actually looking at the 
> era the garment is supposed to represent.
> 

Well, I would like to know about the person who claimed several times that 
trim along the hem of a garment is rare.  I have pictures of Queen E. and her 
minions dancing in my head to prove otherwise.  But that could just be the 
percocet.  I mean, granted it could be an inch or so *above* the hem, but...?

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 03:16:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H7G0HP025254
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 03:16:01 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H7DiUw014527
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:13:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H7DgCC022615;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:13:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.88])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5H7DeCC022584
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:13:40 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030617071335.56786.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:13:35 BST
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:13:35 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk 
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EEE9454.30400@fenris.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net> wrote: > 

> Ooooh, which pattern elements are you going to use for your dress? I 
> just ordered that pattern, and have been drooling over it, even if it is 
> not here yet.

I don't know yet! That's the probloem, they are so wonderful, all these
possibilities that I keep drooling over them, just like you, and can't make up
my mind. I bought it a couple of years ago and since then I grab it and
ccasionally just look through it :-)

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 05:41:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H9fYHP032607
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:41:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H8cHUw019219
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:38:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H8cGhB024767;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:38:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41508.mail.yahoo.com (web41508.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5H8cEhB024710
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:38:15 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030617083809.91845.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:38:09 BST
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:38:09 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or
	is the nap rayon?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030616152415.47862.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net> wrote: > 
> After seeing the patterns, can I steal your idea? I'm
> thinking maybe cream-colored silk with the dark green
> velvet...

Any time! because I steal your cream coloured silk idea right back: I just
remembered I have some of that flying around!
Now, Teddy said he'll have some huge velvet curtains for me in dark green...
;-)

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 06:34:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HAYAHP000332
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:34:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H8WOUw018687
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:32:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H8WNhB022119;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:32:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.89])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5H8WLhB022076
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:32:21 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030617083215.18644.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:32:15 BST
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:32:15 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <A2F924FDD3D70E4A96CFD73B7196A00304C0032C@WDNE2K.mackie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Colleen, it's a dissertation from a German Uni, thus it will be available in
one way shape or form via ILL. Go and try to order it instead of paying so much
money for something no one seems to kow about? Just my tuppence.

Okay, so I just got a Cambridge thesis that I need to read from the BL, but...
on MICROFICHE! *screams*

:-)

Nicole

--- Colleen McDonald <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com> wrote: > I found this book
listed on www.abebooks.com this morning and I was wondering
> if anyone on this list actually seen it or could give me commentary on it? 
> It sounds like it could have a lot of good stuff for what I'm researching,
> but $90 US is a lot to pay for a source when I don't know how useful it will
> be.
> 
> KLESSE, Brigitte.
> Die Darstellung von Seidenstoffen auf italienischen Bildern des 14.
> Jahrhunderts. [Cologne?] 1958.
>  	[4] 128 [2]p. 15 x 21. Paper. - Dissertation; Universität Köln. A scholarly
> study & classification of the textile motifs found in 14th c Italian
> painting, especially in the depiction of costume. Extensive references
> throughout; bibl, p108-17. Important study, later expanded with illustrations
> & published in 1967. [CSROT 2516]. Bookseller Inventory #(IG354)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Colleen
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 06:41:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HAfhHP000364
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:41:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HAceUw025364
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:38:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HAcXaL003675;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:38:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HAcTaL003616
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:38:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 90F4610EF27
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:38:24 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <112301c334bc$935c6db0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:38:22 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message -----
From: <IceGirlNIN@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts


> In a message dated 6/17/03 1:09:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:
>
> > I absolutely second that opinion.. A few comments I read and thought..
> > What??? Using sweeping generalisations without actually looking at the
> > era the garment is supposed to represent.
> >
>
> Well, I would like to know about the person who claimed several times that
> trim along the hem of a garment is rare.  I have pictures of Queen E. and
her
> minions dancing in my head to prove otherwise.  But that could just be the
> percocet.  I mean, granted it could be an inch or so *above* the hem,
but...?
>
> Christine


And the classic remark "Remember, purple was only worn by queens".

Dianne

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 07:35:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HBZGHP000803
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:35:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HBXUUw028558
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:33:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HBXTYD023918;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:33:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HBXQYD023858
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:33:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-112-118.friaco.onetel.net.uk
	[213.78.112.118])3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id AEI25740;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:33:16 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <055301c334c4$3d3d2e80$47704ed5@your1p37d9kihs>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:33:12 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Subject: [h-cost] China dolls
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Some time ago I told somebody on list )Leif maybe ?)about a friend who did
China dolls I've just tried to find their email, but it looks like I lost it
with my hard drive. So did anyone keep the web address please ?

Mel


This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 08:32:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCWTHP000934
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:32:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCUMUw002524
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:30:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCULl2017931;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:30:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from newbabe.mengwong.com (newbabe.mengwong.com [208.210.125.227])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCUIl2017885
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:30:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: by newbabe.mengwong.com (Postfix, from userid 669)
	id 30A181F683; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:30:17 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:30:17 -0400
From: "Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)" <katherine@infotrope.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Message-ID: <20030617123017.GA30940@infotrope.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <168.2022ec1a.2c1ff6c5@aol.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In lists.sca.h-costume, you wrote:
> There's some very nicely done garb on
> there.  And I think I saw Drea!  Or not, but she sure looked like Drea,
> middle/lower class Flemish.  The picture was a bit blurry, so I couldn't be sure.
                                                                                                                                      
Actually, that was me.  Drea's much slimmer than I am.  The bodice was based on
Drea's pattern generator, though.  That outfit was my first attempt at womens
Elizabethan (I used to have a male persona) and is roughly based on the sketch
of Holbein's family.

FWIW, numbers 1, 2 and 3 are me, and number 41 is one that I made (but it's an
awful pic... I can't believe she uploaded that!)
                                                                                                                                      
K.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 08:53:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCrHHP000992
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:53:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCpKUw004412
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:51:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCpJl2027591;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:51:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCpEl2027546
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:51:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14606
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:51:14 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA28132
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:51:13 -0400
Message-ID: <00f701c334ce$9144fa30$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <168.2022ec1a.2c1ff6c5@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:47:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message -----
From: <IceGirlNIN@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com


 Besides..no one really wants a guy
> to lose his head.  That would ruin the garb!
>

Oh I don't know.... depends on the garb.  Kidding.... I'm kidding! *returns
to lurking*

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 08:55:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCtvHP001020
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:55:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCsEUw004650
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:54:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCsDl2028760;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:54:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HCqdl2028145
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:52:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15468
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:52:39 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA29082
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:52:39 -0400
Message-ID: <010001c334ce$c447e820$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <168.2022ec1a.2c1ff6c5@aol.com>
	<05cd01c3348d$7e025120$0400a8c0@compaqub>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:48:35 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

If you click on Top Ten or Bottom Ten or Latest Ten, it doesn't even give
you the option to vote. It just displays the appropriate 10 photos. When you
click on one, you get all of the comments on it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com


> Nah, you don't have to vote. But it's a lot easier to see the comments for
> each if you do, and I'm getting all sorts of kick out of them.
>
> And I don't GO to events. I'm not in the SCA or any other reenactment, etc
> group. =} All my spare time is spoken for; websites are my main
> costume-viewing venue.
>
> E
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 09:07:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HD72HP001095
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:07:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HD5FUw005594
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:05:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HD5EKg004375;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:05:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao08.cox.net (lakemtao08.cox.net [68.1.17.113])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HD5BKg004316
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:05:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao08.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030617130506.FUTW7627.lakemtao08.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:05:06 -0400
Message-ID: <061a01c334d1$136bd8b0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<168.2022ec1a.2c1ff6c5@aol.com><05cd01c3348d$7e025120$0400a8c0@compaqub>
	<010001c334ce$c447e820$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:05:07 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yeah, but there's actually more than 20 entries now! =} And even if you keep
doing 'random pic' yeah, you can eventually see all the comments; it's just
much more time consuming.

E

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com


> If you click on Top Ten or Bottom Ten or Latest Ten, it doesn't even give
> you the option to vote. It just displays the appropriate 10 photos. When
you
> click on one, you get all of the comments on it.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 09:38:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HDcrHP001228
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:38:53 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HDb0Uw008353
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:37:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HDawKg020384;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:36:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HDatKg020328
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:36:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1dc.bff4814 (4426)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:36:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <1dc.bff4814.2c20736e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:36:46 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 8:34:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
katherine@infotrope.net writes:

> Actually, that was me.  Drea's much slimmer than I am.  The bodice was 
> based on
> Drea's pattern generator, though.  That outfit was my first attempt at 
> womens
> Elizabethan (I used to have a male persona) and is roughly based on the 
> sketch
> of Holbein's family.
> 

Woops!  Well, I said the picture was a tad blurry- and when I actually saw 
Drea in person about two months ago, she was putting on a Darth Vader helmet.  
So maybe I didn't get a great look at her ;-)
And if that's your first attempt...wow!  Very nice!

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 09:42:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HDgOHP001244
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:42:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HDedUw008733
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:40:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HDeZKg022351;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:40:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web12005.mail.yahoo.com (web12005.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.136.172.213])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5HDbOKg020611
	for <h-costume@net.indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:37:24 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030617133723.90188.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [206.221.225.238] by web12005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:37:23 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cascio Michael <rosenau5@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@net.indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi All,
   I'm finally caught up on my posts and have a few
questions.
   On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the
blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square
neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or
would it just be a band across the front where it
would show?  I know Janet Arnold mentions a square
neck shift somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a
picture of it anywhere.  I'm working on a shift with
the low square neck and blackwork on the cuffs as per
the Helena Snakenborg, although you can't see her
shift sleeves underneath that beautifully embroidered
partlet and sleeves.
   Second question---One of the beading magazines I
pick up occasionally has some choker patterns that I
thought would make nice beaded trims.  The chokers
were made with a light weight gauge wire but as I want
to sew these patterns down to a garment edge should I
use wire and make the choker as per the instructions
and then sew it onto the velvet?  Since I was going to
put a band of velvet along the edge of the sleeves and
hem, like a guard, I could stitch each bead down to
the velvet and then take it off should I need to clean
the garment.  And since I'm going to put these on a
garment should I use flat beads or the round beads the
pattern suggests?
    Any help would be most appreciated.
                                 Cassandra 

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 10:19:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEJnHP001347
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:19:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEI1Uw012245
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:18:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEI0xB012302;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:18:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEHvxB012284
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:17:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12001
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:17:57 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11997
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:17:56 -0400
Message-ID: <015b01c334da$ae509f60$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030617133723.90188.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:13:52 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This is a bit earlier than the period you are asking about, I believe, but
from portraits of Anne Boleyn and other Tudor Era women, you can clearly see
that the blackwork on the square neck shift goes all the way around the
neckline.

Regarding the beading, I can't wait to hear the answers as that sounds like
a really cool idea!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cascio Michael" <rosenau5@yahoo.com>
To: <h-costume@net.indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:37 AM
Subject: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions


> Hi All,
>    I'm finally caught up on my posts and have a few
> questions.
>    On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the
> blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square
> neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or
> would it just be a band across the front where it
> would show?  I know Janet Arnold mentions a square
> neck shift somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a
> picture of it anywhere.  I'm working on a shift with
> the low square neck and blackwork on the cuffs as per
> the Helena Snakenborg, although you can't see her
> shift sleeves underneath that beautifully embroidered
> partlet and sleeves.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 10:24:06 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEO5HP001357
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:24:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEMFUw012657
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:22:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEMFxB014538;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:22:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEMBxB014495
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:22:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bently (dialport87.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.14.88])
	by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15022
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:22:07 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <005d01c334db$e5d30580$580ebbd0@bently>
From: "David" <someone@eskimo.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <A2F924FDD3D70E4A96CFD73B7196A00304C00328@WDNE2K.mackie.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:22:32 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Sounds great, in general, but I just remembered -- I'll be in London then!
I'm not used to thinking of myself not at home.  Are you arranging this for
a group, and do you arrange other cool things, too?  I'd love to attend
something else in the future.  Let me know if there *is* anything in the
future.

Thank you,
Pam Dotson


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 10:56:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEuCHP001536
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:56:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEpxUw015580
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:51:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEpvxB001937;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:51:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.126])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HEpsxB001903
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:51:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dialup-67.30.198.115.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net
	([67.30.198.115])
	by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SHoP-0004j1-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:51:53 -0700
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish
	prinses
From: Grace Morris <gmorris@providenceday.org>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB14B188.EDBE%gmorris@providenceday.org>
In-Reply-To: <3EEE226F.6030202@kabelfoon.nl>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5HEpsxB001903
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Anderson, Ruth Mathilda. (1979). Hispanic Costume 1480-1530. New York:
Hispanic Society of America.

Bernis, Carmen. (1962). Indumentaria Española en Tiempos de Carlos V.
Madrid: Instituto Diego Velásquez.

__________________. (1978). Trajes y Modas en la España de los Reyes
Catolicós. I. Las Mujeres. II. Los Hombres 15th, 16thc.

Have Fun!
Jessamyn/Grace

> From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
> Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:02:55 +0200
> To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
> Subject: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for more information of this portrait.
> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg
> 
> Greetings,
> Deredere
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 11:40:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFeiHP001641
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFcwUw021597
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:38:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFcvTS005577;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:38:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5HFcsTS005539
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:38:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 7473 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 15:38:54 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO webmail1.inreach.com) (209.142.2.50)
  by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 15:38:54 -0000
Received: from 162.119.64.111
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com)
        by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP;
        Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:38:54 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <25289.162.119.64.111.1055864334.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:38:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses
From: <dch@inreach.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <004501c33462$0b8c2880$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
References: <002301c3345b$9128bbe0$b242a6d0@castlebooks>
        <004501c33462$0b8c2880$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> I never noticed it before on this portrait, but are those pins I see
> running up the bodice?
>
> "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
> Isocrates
>
>

To me it looks like this is the edge of the trim that runs around the
neckline and in a line down from the shoulder to the waist.  But there is
the Jane Seymour example so who knows for sure?

Diana


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 11:58:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFw9HP001693
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:58:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFj9Uw022414
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:45:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFj8TS010347;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:45:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFj3TS010246
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:45:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01000
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:08:03 -0500
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:08:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-Reply-To: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306171041210.847-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:

> Well, I would like to know about the person who claimed several times
> that trim along the hem of a garment is rare.  I have pictures of
> Queen E. and her minions dancing in my head to prove otherwise.  But
> that could just be the percocet.  I mean, granted it could be an inch
> or so *above* the hem, but...?

Well, I didn't make the comments, but I saw one of them, and it was on a
garment several centuries earlier than Queen Elizabeth; it looked 12th
century to me.

Hem trim is one of those dicey issues -- appropriate in some periods and
not in others. What makes this more complicated is that in some periods
hem trim appears in many artworks, but seems to be associated with only
certain types of figures. In 14th and 15th century Western Europe, I've
found I'm likely to see hem trim in certain artworks of saints, angels,
and historic queens, for instance, but not on ordinary people. The sheer
number of these images can make it look as though hem trim is routine,
until you take the entire corpus of art and start breaking it down for the
patterns of who has it and who doesn't, and in what contexts.

For instance, in the Unicorn Tapestries, (late 15th c. France), the "Lady"
figure has many elements to her costume that are clearly fantastical, that
are meant to mark her as an "otherworldly" or "super-natural" figure,
while the maid with her is dressed extremely finely but within the bounds
of reason and physical capability. One of the differences is in trim
placement and style -- most of the Lady figures have jeweled trim,
including hem trim, but the maid never has hem trim (and I think has no
jeweled trims, but I'd need to doublecheck that). In close to the same
period, there's a large Last Judgment painting at the Groeninge Museum in
Bruges in which people entering Heaven are being given robes that look
ordinary except for jeweled bands on the hems; in that context, this
detail is practically a label for "glorious clothing of Heaven that is
far finer than anything on the real earth."

The nature of the trim and the garment it's on is important, too -- you
can't lump all "hem trim" together. A decorative stitching pattern or
narrow woven band might have been used as an edge finish in real garments,
but that doesn't mean that wide brocaded bands with gold or jewels would
have been used in the same position. Or a band might be shown on a mantle
or other overgarment that does not reach the ground, while ground-length
garments do not have them. That's especially a concern for men's garments
and priest's vestments; seeing hem trims on certain garments on these
people doesn't mean they're appropriate for noblewomen's floor-length
gowns. And then you get into the issue of depiction -- some sculpture
techniques, for instance, use what looks like decorative bands to divide
areas of different textures, but that may or may not have any resemblance
to what the clothing looked like. Similarly, an illuminator might
highlight a garment edge with a thin line of white, gold, or a contrasting
color -- to divide color areas and indicate depth and layering, not to
represent actual trim.

Often people who look at artwork as clothing documentation don't have the
awareness of what elements of the images reflect artistic style, accepted
iconography/symbolism, or handling of the medium, in that place and
period. Clothes people also tend to assume that details they see on
clothing are representing something about real clothes. Very often, that's
not the case ... but it takes a lot of eye-training and comparisons and
contextual analysis to make the distinctions. Hem trim is just one of
those issues that comes up over and over, because it's so easy to
misinterpret the images.

So the person making the comment may have had a point; it's just hard to
get all the nuances into a one-line comment. And the person who says "But
I can document it" probably has a stack of images to point to and feels
justified about it -- but that doesn't mean that *any* of them represent
real clothing.

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 12:05:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HG5wHP001742
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:05:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HG2vUw024569
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:02:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HG2t23023215;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:02:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HG2r23023116
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:02:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.63.1e8966eb (16930)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:02:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <63.1e8966eb.2c2095a3@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:02:43 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 11:52:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
robin@shell.nightowl.net writes:

> So the person making the comment may have had a point; it's just hard to
> get all the nuances into a one-line comment. And the person who says "But
> I can document it" probably has a stack of images to point to and feels
> justified about it -- but that doesn't mean that *any* of them represent
> real clothing.

Well, I did take AP art history this year, so I can get the whole allegorical 
vs. actual thing down, and giggle at the "donor" paintings (well, he 
certainly doesn't belong in this picture.  Must have given the money for it).  Of 
course...I don't know if I actually *passed* the AP exam yet, so my knowledge may 
or may not be extensive.  There was a mid 16th century waist-up portrait on 
the exam that I remembered, anyhow...and really want to replicate!  It's too bad 
I'll have to fake it from the waist down.  Should take me a month to do the 
sleeves- lots and lots of slashwork and gems (and she's definitely not 
allegorical, it's a portrait).  I think it was painted by Ghirlandaio, but I have a 
lot of artist names dancing in my head.  
Wait.  I just said I'd do another costume.  I think that's number four on the 
"to-do" list.

Christine
Whose wallet is screaming "nooooooooooooooooooooo!"
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:01:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HH1AHP001914
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:01:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HGxIUw001518
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:59:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HGxGuf009768;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:59:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HGx8uf009681
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:59:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGM008PYXUJI0@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:49:59 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306171041210.847-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 11:08 AM 6/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>So the person making the comment may have had a point; it's just hard to
>get all the nuances into a one-line comment. And the person who says "But
>I can document it" probably has a stack of images to point to and feels
>justified about it -- but that doesn't mean that *any* of them represent
>real clothing.
>
>--Robin


Wow, I hadn't realized the whole... library of art knowledge that is 
required to replicate costumes accurately. How would one go about learning 
all this fine line knowledge without getting my own PhD? I am serious about 
this, as I very much want to improve my knowledge of costuming details, and 
yet it seems rather overwhelming, that all the art images we base much of 
our costuming on may not be appropriate to base our costuming from.

Are there any specific books or something I can research to learn a small 
fraction of what you have obviously learned over the years? Something to 
get me started in the right direction?

Thanks

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:09:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HH9QHP001957
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:09:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HH7VUw002409
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:07:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HH7Puf015635;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HH7Kuf015539
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:07:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGM00KGEY86JC@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:54:18 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-reply-to: <20030616180108.C25512-100000@shell.siscom.net>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095116.027cf558@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030616142434.02dd3df0@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 06:03 PM 6/16/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing
> > this time period? Why or why not?
>
>Silk came in both shiny and non-shiny/duller weaves.  Satin was a popular
>fabric of the time; their silk satin was much stiffer than the charmeuse
>silk you find nowadays. You can still buy heavy silk satin from places
>like Thai Silks, but you'll be shelling out $20 to $30/yd for the heavy
>stiff stuff that best replicates the 16th c. look.

Ok, I hadn't realized the silks used were that thick. No wonder it kept 
them warm. As I do events in sunny and HOT Central California, I was hoping 
to use something that breathed better than satin. I think I am now 
understanding why cotton velveteen is so popular around here.

>  I've found that you can get a relatively accurate "look" by backing
>charmeuse satin with a stiff canvas or similar stiff fabric.

Hmmm... would that apply for skirts as well? I already planned on doing 
this for the bodice as interlining.

>Good luck,
>
>Drea

Thank you Drea. I appreciate your perspective and comments.

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:12:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHCOHP001975
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:12:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHAaUw002783
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:10:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHAYuf018155;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:10:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HH7Ouf015625
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGM00KGEY86JC@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:07:23 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:57:32 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-reply-to: <003301c33453$64b09590$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095448.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030616142434.02dd3df0@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 03:05 PM 6/16/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>I have lots of examples in my electronic stash of pictures representing
>shiny silk-totally period for a broad range of time within the
>renaissance.  If you need examples I would be happy to send them to you
>or load them up on my (under-reconstruction) website.


Thank you Saragrace for the offer. I won't need them myself, but it does 
sound like a great thing to have on your web site for others to use as 
research.

I am just scratching my head, because I have heard the not-shiny silks for 
some time, and yet see many examples from paintings of the period. I also 
hear that pink isn't appropriate either, yet I have examples that show 
otherwise... but that's another ball of wax that I don't have to worry 
about right now so I won't.

Thanks again,

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:16:12 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHGCHP001991
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:16:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHEKUw003209
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:14:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHEIuf021245;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:14:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5HHAsuf018405
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:10:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 16293 invoked by uid 1005); 17 Jun 2003 17:10:46 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.074137 secs); 17 Jun 2003 17:10:46 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.074137 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 17:10:46 -0000
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:10:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030617130909.Q45031-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Kimiko,

There are usually one to two top books per century/country for
later period dress (1400-1600), and a few broader ones covering
early period, that are great starting points for people seriously
researching that particular topic.  What century or country are you
particularly interested in?

Drea

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Kimiko Small wrote:

> At 11:08 AM 6/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >So the person making the comment may have had a point; it's just hard to
> >get all the nuances into a one-line comment. And the person who says "But
> >I can document it" probably has a stack of images to point to and feels
> >justified about it -- but that doesn't mean that *any* of them represent
> >real clothing.
> >
> >--Robin
>
>
> Wow, I hadn't realized the whole... library of art knowledge that is
> required to replicate costumes accurately. How would one go about learning
> all this fine line knowledge without getting my own PhD? I am serious about
> this, as I very much want to improve my knowledge of costuming details, and
> yet it seems rather overwhelming, that all the art images we base much of
> our costuming on may not be appropriate to base our costuming from.
>
> Are there any specific books or something I can research to learn a small
> fraction of what you have obviously learned over the years? Something to
> get me started in the right direction?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kimiko
>
>
>
> Kimiko Small
> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell
>
> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
> http://www.costumegallery.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:19:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHJ2HP002000
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:19:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHHEUw003524
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:17:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHHDuf024483;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:17:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5HHBuuf019052
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:11:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 19490 invoked by uid 1005); 17 Jun 2003 17:11:48 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.086582 secs); 17 Jun 2003 17:11:48 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.086582 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 17:11:48 -0000
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:11:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095116.027cf558@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030617131107.E45031-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yes, for skirts as well. It ends up pretty heavy, true...cotton velveteen
is a good modern alternative.

Drea

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Kimiko Small wrote:

> At 06:03 PM 6/16/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> > >
> > > This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing
> > > this time period? Why or why not?
> >
> >Silk came in both shiny and non-shiny/duller weaves.  Satin was a popular
> >fabric of the time; their silk satin was much stiffer than the charmeuse
> >silk you find nowadays. You can still buy heavy silk satin from places
> >like Thai Silks, but you'll be shelling out $20 to $30/yd for the heavy
> >stiff stuff that best replicates the 16th c. look.
>
> Ok, I hadn't realized the silks used were that thick. No wonder it kept
> them warm. As I do events in sunny and HOT Central California, I was hoping
> to use something that breathed better than satin. I think I am now
> understanding why cotton velveteen is so popular around here.
>
> >  I've found that you can get a relatively accurate "look" by backing
> >charmeuse satin with a stiff canvas or similar stiff fabric.
>
> Hmmm... would that apply for skirts as well? I already planned on doing
> this for the bodice as interlining.
>
> >Good luck,
> >
> >Drea
>
> Thank you Drea. I appreciate your perspective and comments.
>
> Kimiko
>
>
>
> Kimiko Small
> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell
>
> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
> http://www.costumegallery.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:22:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHMkHP002019
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:22:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHKvUw003909
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:20:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHKsuf027113;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:20:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHJguf026070
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:19:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.26.3b0031c8 (16930)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:19:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <26.3b0031c8.2c20a7a5@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:19:33 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 1:04:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kimiko@kimiko1.com writes:

> Are there any specific books or something I can research to learn a small 
> fraction of what you have obviously learned over the years? Something to 
> get me started in the right direction?

Ooh!  I can give a book recommendation for this one!  My art history text 
book is absolutely wonderful (well, so is my art history teacher, but I can't 
exactly *give* you a teacher, now can I?).  It's Gardner's Art Through the Ages, 
11th edition.  It's expensive but comprehensive- 1248 pages, $98 on 
amazon.com.  It's a very good book though.  Also good as a start is Strickland's The 
Annotated Mona Lisa- it's a crash course in art history, literally!  It's not 
nearly as in-depth, but it's definitely worth the $20.

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:25:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHPuHP002037
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:25:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHO5Uw004278
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:24:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHO3uf029305;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:24:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rwcrmhc12.attbi.com (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHN1uf028514
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:23:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from fenris.net
	(12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender))
	by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP
	id <2003061717225601400aejsue>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:22:56 +0000
Message-ID: <3EEF4E7A.5050506@fenris.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:23:06 -0700
From: Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk
References: <20030617071335.56786.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030617071335.56786.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

N Kipar wrote:

> --- Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net> wrote: > 
>  
>
>>Ooooh, which pattern elements are you going to use for your dress? I 
>>just ordered that pattern, and have been drooling over it, even if it is 
>>not here yet.
>>    
>>
>I don't know yet! That's the probloem, they are so wonderful, all these
>possibilities that I keep drooling over them, just like you, and can't make up
>my mind. I bought it a couple of years ago and since then I grab it and
>ccasionally just look through it :-)
>
>  
>
I like the overgown w/ the straps holding the sides of the skirt 
together. And I don't think I like a high-necked underdress. I know I 
don't like the sleeves on the square-necked undergown, but I don't know 
which sleeve I do like. That's as far as I"ve gotten!

liz young


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:35:54 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHZsHP002072
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:35:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHXxUw005415
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:34:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHXsuf006439;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:33:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
	[66.163.168.180])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5HHXouf006366
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:33:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adsl-67-122-69-59.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978)
	(angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@67.122.69.59 with login)
	by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP;
	17 Jun 2003 17:33:50 -0000
Message-ID: <00ec01c334f6$e53ee790$3b457a43@angelap3a8d978>
From: "Angela F. Lazear" <angelalazear@sbcglobal.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:35:50 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] Origins of the graduation robe
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Does anyone here on the list know the origins of the cap and gown?  My
daughter just graduated hs and she asked me how old they were.  I thought
something like 12C Europe, but didn't really have a clue?  If you don't know
offhand, do have a good online source for the info? I did a quick google and
didn't get very far, but I'm swamped right now and not at the computer much.

Robin?

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"I have no other but a woman's reason:
I think him so, because I think him so."
Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare




_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:45:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHj4HP002090
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:45:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHh9Uw006389
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:43:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHh7uf013051;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:43:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHh4uf013008
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:43:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by
	scanmail3.cableone.net  with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:42:50 -0700
Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net
  (SMTPD32-7.04) id A31A5FB300EC; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:42:50 -0700
Received: from kimathlon (24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]) by
	mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:42:50 -0600
From: "Kim Baird" <kbaird@cableone.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Origins of the graduation robe
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:43:36 -0500
Message-ID: <000801c334f7$fbe52210$0201a8c0@kimathlon>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <00ec01c334f6$e53ee790$3b457a43@angelap3a8d978>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon
X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net
X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-185-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.185.234]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Here's one wb site, there are lots more:

http://quilt.com/QuiltGuildsPage.html

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Angela F. Lazear
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:36 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Origins of the graduation robe

Does anyone here on the list know the origins of the cap and gown?  My
daughter just graduated hs and she asked me how old they were.  I
thought
something like 12C Europe, but didn't really have a clue?  If you don't
know
offhand, do have a good online source for the info? I did a quick google
and
didn't get very far, but I'm swamped right now and not at the computer
much.

Robin?

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"I have no other but a woman's reason:
I think him so, because I think him so."
Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare




_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:47:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHlhHP002097
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:47:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHjoUw006680
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:45:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHjluf014988;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:45:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHhDuf013128
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:43:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGM00KY9ZVYJC@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:43:11 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:31:20 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-reply-to: <20030617130909.Q45031-100000@shell.siscom.net>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617102835.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 01:10 PM 6/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Kimiko,
>
>There are usually one to two top books per century/country for
>later period dress (1400-1600), and a few broader ones covering
>early period, that are great starting points for people seriously
>researching that particular topic.  What century or country are you
>particularly interested in?
>
>Drea


Hi Drea,

Renaissance time period, usually English based from Henry VIII (1520 
earliest) to Elizabeth (1590 latest), but I am beginning to branch out to 
Italian and early German, so all of the 16th century is the time period I 
am going for, and maybe even the later parts of 15th c. as well for the 
Italian.

Thanks! I love to read books, so I am looking forward to this.

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 13:53:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHrKHP002113
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:53:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHpRUw007364
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:51:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHpPuf019757;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:51:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HHhDuh013128
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:43:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGM00KY9ZVYJC@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:32:23 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-reply-to: <26.3b0031c8.2c20a7a5@aol.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617103145.028471d0@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 01:19 PM 6/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Ooh!  I can give a book recommendation for this one!  My art history text
>book is absolutely wonderful (well, so is my art history teacher, but I can't
>exactly *give* you a teacher, now can I?).  It's Gardner's Art Through the 
>Ages,
>11th edition.  It's expensive but comprehensive- 1248 pages, $98 on
>amazon.com.  It's a very good book though.  Also good as a start is 
>Strickland's The
>Annotated Mona Lisa- it's a crash course in art history, literally!  It's not
>nearly as in-depth, but it's definitely worth the $20.
>
>Christine


Hi Christine,

Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to check them out.

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 15:06:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJ6aHP002357
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:06:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJ4EUw016418
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:04:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJ4C61018851;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:04:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJ4861018701
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:04:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1cb.c1d6a2b (15865)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-d17.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.133]) by
	air-id06.mx.aol.com (v94.29) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df93eef661d175; Tue, 17
	Jun 2003 15:03:57 -0400
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:03:57 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Origins of the graduation robe
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2B11F59A.4C83CBB3.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

You could try my website
http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/academic%20clothing.htm

"Angela F. Lazear" <angelalazear@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Does anyone here on the list know the origins of the cap and gown?  My
>daughter just graduated hs and she asked me how old they were.  I thought
>something like 12C Europe, but didn't really have a clue?  If you don't know
>offhand, do have a good online source for the info? I did a quick google and
>didn't get very far, but I'm swamped right now and not at the computer much.
>
>Robin?
>
>angela
>+++++
>Angela F. Lazear
>Cabbage Rose Costumes
>http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
>Theatrical Costume Design
>
>"I have no other but a woman's reason:
>I think him so, because I think him so."
>Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 15:53:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJrYHP002446
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:53:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJpSUw021898
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:51:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJpP61024942;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:51:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com
	[194.73.73.176])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HJpJ61024873
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:51:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host81-132-191-53.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.132.191.53]
	helo=dan)	by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23)
	id 19SMUA-0004dJ-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:51:18 +0100
Message-ID: <029e01c33509$cbea17c0$35bf8451@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" <stevie.gamble@btinternet.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:51:08 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Kimiko wrote:

 > Wow, I hadn't realized the whole... library of art knowledge that
is
> required to replicate costumes accurately. How would one go about
learning
> all this fine line knowledge without getting my own PhD? I am
serious about
> this, as I very much want to improve my knowledge of costuming
details, and
> yet it seems rather overwhelming, that all the art images we base
much of
> our costuming on may not be appropriate to base our costuming from.
>
> Are there any specific books or something I can research to learn a
small
> fraction of what you have obviously learned over the years?
Something to
> get me started in the right direction?
>

Well, I suggest that you start with Lou Taylor's scholarly but very
readable

 'The Study of Dress History'
2001,
ISBN: 0719040655,

which should give you an enjoyable overview of the pitfalls of a
number of different approaches to the subject...

best wishes
Stevie


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 17:07:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HL7bHP002660
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:07:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HL5dUw001865
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:05:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HL5YWW024982;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:05:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HL5VWW024920
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:05:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGN008U7996SE@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:05:30 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:56:23 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-reply-to: <029e01c33509$cbea17c0$35bf8451@dan>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617135457.028471d0@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 08:51 PM 6/17/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Well, I suggest that you start with Lou Taylor's scholarly but very
>readable
>
>  'The Study of Dress History'
>2001,
>ISBN: 0719040655,


Thank you for the suggestion, Stevie. It's beginning to look like I will be 
learning more about historical fashion than I ever thought I would.

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 17:53:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLrSHP002784
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:53:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLpZUw008131
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:51:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLpTWW004800;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:51:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HLpQWW004745
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:51:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24707
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:51:25 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA31247
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:51:25 -0400
Message-ID: <01ca01c3351a$06abcc90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20030617135457.028471d0@127.0.0.1>
Subject: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:47:18 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I know I have seen a painting somewhere that shows a woman from the side or
3/4 turned away where you can see that her necklace fastens with a ribbon. I
want to say it is perhaps Flemish or Italian, but I could be wrong. It is a
bead necklace which fastens with a ribbon in the back (perhaps through
rings?) not a necklace made of a ribbon, if that makes sense.

I have searched my books and online and I can't figure out what it was! A
friend wants to make a necklace and is hoping to document that sort of
fastener. Can anyone help?

Thanks!

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 19:07:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HN7nHP003475
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:07:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HN5SUw017581
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:05:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HN5P11029767;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:05:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HN5I11029675
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:05:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SPVt-0003JX-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:05:18 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:05:10 -0700
Message-ID: <000901c33524$eb2178c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095448.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~I am just scratching my head, because I have heard the not-shiny silks
for
~some time, and yet see many examples from paintings of the period. I
also
~hear that pink isn't appropriate either, yet I have examples that show
~otherwise... 

[Sg:] Drea did a 'spot' awhile back that said it better than I ever
could, but the bottom line is do your own research and be wary of those
who use (or infer) the words never or always as it is related to
historic costume.

Okay, I used up my two brain cells of wisdom for today.

Sg

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 19:18:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNILHP004210
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:18:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNGZUw019103
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:16:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNGX11008120;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:16:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web40808.mail.yahoo.com (web40808.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.78.185])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5HNGS11007939
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:16:29 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030617231623.22584.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [66.229.184.44] by web40808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:16:23 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:16:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cynthia Corley <cyncorley@yahoo.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [h-cost] re:origins of graduation robes
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I found this website when I was hunting for info on
how to wear the regalia I bought when I graduated from
an English university. Now years later I need to wear
it as a faculty member and had forgotten how to wear
the funky cap...boy did I feel stupid! And would have
felt even stupider wearing the cap backwards! 
Anywho, this site has a pretty good explanation of the
development of academic regalia from Medieval robes
and liripipes. I'm sorry I don't know how to make it
an actual link...
www.tamiu.edu/~slunce/regalia.htm  

=====
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  Gandhi

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 19:49:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNniHP006676
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:49:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNm0Uw023072
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:48:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNlw11028281;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:47:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNlu11028261
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:47:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [205.133.149.157] (pm5-157.eos.net [205.133.149.157])
	by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29198
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:47:54 -0400 (EDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:42:34 -0400
From: Gail & Scott Finke <gailscott@eos.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB151FA9.9589%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <200306101514.h5AFElpn019070@net.indra.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] web site question??
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO



I was out of town for eight days and am now catching up on my email.
Beautiful partlet, Deredere! Anyway, what is the site everyone is talking
about that shows various pix of people in garb for voting on? I get the
digest version and have taken a quick look back at the subject lines of a
dozen or so, but I can't find the original, just all the comments, and I'm
very curious.

Gail Finke


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 19:50:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNopHP006731
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:50:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNn5Uw023156
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNn511028925;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
	[66.163.168.188])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5HNn311028908
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adsl-67-122-69-59.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978)
	(cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.122.69.59 with login)
	by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP;
	17 Jun 2003 23:49:02 -0000
Message-ID: <009201c3352b$4fe66170$3b457a43@angelap3a8d978>
From: "Cabbage Rose" <cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030617231623.22584.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:origins of graduation robes
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:51:02 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Cynthia, Constance & Kim!

Thanks so much for all the help. It's just a little side track for my
daughter, but she asked me quite a few questions about her "Harry Potter"
robes, and I knew someone on the list would know.   There was much
complaining about having to cover up her Betsy Johnson designer dress with
the robes.  Don't get me started about how she had to have Betsy Johnson
when mom designs clothing for a living.  At least it's pretty and she
graduated at the top of her class so I let her go boutique just once.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"I have no other but a woman's reason:
I think him so, because I think him so."
Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cynthia Corley" <cyncorley@yahoo.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:16 PM
Subject: [h-cost] re:origins of graduation robes


> I found this website when I was hunting for info on
> how to wear the regalia I bought when I graduated from
> an English university. Now years later I need to wear
> it as a faculty member and had forgotten how to wear
> the funky cap...boy did I feel stupid! And would have
> felt even stupider wearing the cap backwards!
> Anywho, this site has a pretty good explanation of the
> development of academic regalia from Medieval robes
> and liripipes. I'm sorry I don't know how to make it
> an actual link...
> www.tamiu.edu/~slunce/regalia.htm
>
> =====
> An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  Gandhi
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 19:51:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNpiHP006776
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:51:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNnvUw023270
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNnu11029438;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rwcrmhc12.attbi.com (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HNns11029387
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from fenris.net
	(12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender))
	by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP
	id <2003061723494901400ae0gie>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:49:49 +0000
Message-ID: <3EEFA926.9000006@fenris.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:49:58 -0700
From: Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] web site question??
References: <BB151FA9.9589%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <BB151FA9.9589%gailscott@eos.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Gail & Scott Finke wrote:

>I was out of town for eight days and am now catching up on my email.
>Beautiful partlet, Deredere! Anyway, what is the site everyone is talking
>about that shows various pix of people in garb for voting on? I get the
>digest version and have taken a quick look back at the subject lines of a
>dozen or so, but I can't find the original, just all the comments, and I'm
>very curious.
>  
>
http://www.amiperiodornot.com/

liz young


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 20:10:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0AFHP007776
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:10:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I08PUw025192
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:08:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I08NCA010283;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:08:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80407.mail.yahoo.com (web80407.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I08KCA010215
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:08:20 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618000815.22381.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:08:15 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or
	is the nap rayon?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030617083809.91845.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- N Kipar <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  --- Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net> wrote: > 
> > After seeing the patterns, can I steal your idea?
> I'm
> > thinking maybe cream-colored silk with the dark
> green
> > velvet...
> 
> Any time! because I steal your cream coloured silk
> idea right back: I just
> remembered I have some of that flying around!
> Now, Teddy said he'll have some huge velvet curtains
> for me in dark green...
> ;-)
> 
> Nicole

We're just going to have to make sure we don't both
wear the same dress to the same event at the same
time, or we'll look like we've been to a fire sale. 
;-) OTOH, if we could get a few more people to make
the same dress, in the same colors, we could be the
"Artistic Reform Police." ;-D

Feeling terribly silly because finals are over, grades
are turned in, and (finally!) my summer vacation
starts tomorrow afternoon.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 20:26:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0QjHP007818
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:26:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0P1Uw026785
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:25:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0OxCA019739;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:25:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0OvCA019669
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:24:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.12.322d5e49 (3858)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:24:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <12.322d5e49.2c210b4e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:24:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or
	is the ...
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 8:12:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dme_maud@pacbell.net writes:

> We're just going to have to make sure we don't both
> wear the same dress to the same event at the same
> time, or we'll look like we've been to a fire sale. 
> ;-) OTOH, if we could get a few more people to make
> the same dress, in the same colors, we could be the
> "Artistic Reform Police." ;-D

*chants* I will not have another costume on my to-do list.  I already have 
four, that's enough.  I will not put another costume on my to-do list.  No 
matter how nice I look in dark green.  I will not...
Dagnabbit Dawn...

Christine
Whose wallet and sewing machine are both cowering in fear.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 20:33:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0XlHP007829
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:33:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0VuUw027403
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:31:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0VtCA023603;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:31:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com (web80401.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.56])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I0VqCA023518
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:31:52 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618003147.39267.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:31:47 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:31:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <26.3b0031c8.2c20a7a5@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/17/03 1:04:35 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> kimiko@kimiko1.com writes:
> 
> > Are there any specific books or something I can
> research to learn a small 
> > fraction of what you have obviously learned over
> the years? Something to 
> > get me started in the right direction?
> 
> Ooh!  I can give a book recommendation for this one!
>  My art history text 
> book is absolutely wonderful (well, so is my art
> history teacher, but I can't 
> exactly *give* you a teacher, now can I?).  It's
> Gardner's Art Through the Ages, 
> 11th edition.  It's expensive but comprehensive-
> 1248 pages, $98 on 
> amazon.com.  It's a very good book though.  Also
> good as a start is Strickland's The 
> Annotated Mona Lisa- it's a crash course in art
> history, literally!  It's not 
> nearly as in-depth, but it's definitely worth the
> $20.
> 
You can also try to get a used copy from abebooks.com.
Now is a good time to shop for a copy of Gardner's:
it's a standard "Survey of Western Art" text, and the
students that don't keep their copy sell them off as
soon as the semester is over.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 20:40:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0e3HP007846
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:40:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0c3Uw028091
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:38:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0c1CA027368;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:38:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com (web80404.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.59])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I0bxCA027292
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:37:59 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618003753.63985.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:37:53 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617102835.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com> wrote:
> At 01:10 PM 6/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >Kimiko,
> >
> >There are usually one to two top books per
> century/country for
> >later period dress (1400-1600), and a few broader
> ones covering
> >early period, that are great starting points for
> people seriously
> >researching that particular topic.  What century or
> country are you
> >particularly interested in?
> >
> >Drea
> 
> 
> Hi Drea,
> 
> Renaissance time period, usually English based from
> Henry VIII (1520 
> earliest) to Elizabeth (1590 latest), but I am
> beginning to branch out to 
> Italian and early German, so all of the 16th century
> is the time period I 
> am going for, and maybe even the later parts of 15th
> c. as well for the 
> Italian.
> 
> Thanks! I love to read books, so I am looking
> forward to this.
> 
For early German (apologies if I repeat anyone else):

Look at the woodcuts, particularly those by Jost Amman
(available from Dover). There is also a 7-volume set
of "German Single-Leaf Woodcuts" that you might be
able to find at your local university library (sets
are currently selling for around $500) to peruse.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 20:41:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0fKHP007851
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:41:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0dRUw028264
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:39:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0dPCA028280;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:39:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rwcrmhc13.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0dNCA028174
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:39:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from fenris.net
	(12-246-237-231.client.attbi.com[12.246.237.231](untrusted sender))
	by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP
	id <2003061800391801500d9vlre>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:39:18 +0000
Message-ID: <3EEFB4C2.1060802@fenris.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:39:30 -0700
From: Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: The to-do list, Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk
	velvet 100% velvet or	is the ...
References: <12.322d5e49.2c210b4e@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <12.322d5e49.2c210b4e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Finish late 16th century Italian for me and BF (ok, so I have one shirt 
mostly together, a smock cut out, the corset finished, and a trial 
doublet for him basted. Hm, that leaves .... a lot! to do yet).
Fix the sleeves of his old late 16th century stuff that fits him again! 
(Yay) and see if I can alter my old late 16th century stuff to fit me again.
Artistic dress - ok, this should be at the bottom of the list - where am 
I going to wear it?
Folkwear beach pajamas (if I can find the fabric I bought for it)
More Folkwear clothes, chengsam, Viet Ao Dai, and finish a Thai blouse.
Make a smock (hand smocked, embroidered, all that jazz)
swimsuit, summer pjs, better bathrobe
Good thing I have the summer off

liz young

IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:

>*chants* I will not have another costume on my to-do list.  I already have 
>four, that's enough.  I will not put another costume on my to-do list.  No 
>matter how nice I look in dark green.  I will not...
>Dagnabbit Dawn...
>
>  
>



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 20:47:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0lOHP007865
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:47:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0jYUw029785
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:45:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0jSCA003284;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:45:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I0jOCA003121
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:45:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OnNGiU0rkX14T2xZSRwFD14=">; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:44:27
	PDT
Received: (from cley@juno.com) 
 by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2WUYLVZ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:44:27 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:43:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Message-ID: <20030617.174347.1728.1.Cley@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-7,9-17,19-42
X-Juno-Att: 0
X-Juno-RefParts: 0
From: Cynthia J Ley <cley@juno.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Not that this will help much, but...

A friend of mine made a beautiful Elizabethan beaded necklace which looks
like tiered pyramids of beads. The top rank of beads came off of a single
beaded line which ended with a finial ring on either side--this was then
tied with a ribbon with a bow at the neck. She used gros-grain because
it's less likely to slip.

Here's an attempt at the pattern (my ANSII art leaves a lot to be
desired):

	__________
	   \/\/\/\/\/\/
                 \/\/\/
	       \/

Arlys

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:47:18 -0400 "Beteena Paradise"
<bkessinger@ureach.com> writes:
> I know I have seen a painting somewhere that shows a woman from the 
> side or
> 3/4 turned away where you can see that her necklace fastens with a 
> ribbon. I
> want to say it is perhaps Flemish or Italian, but I could be wrong. 
> It is a
> bead necklace which fastens with a ribbon in the back (perhaps 
> through
> rings?) not a necklace made of a ribbon, if that makes sense.
> 
> I have searched my books and online and I can't figure out what it 
> was! A
> friend wants to make a necklace and is hoping to document that sort 
> of
> fastener. Can anyone help?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 20:53:06 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0r5HP007876
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:53:06 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0pHUw001810
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:51:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0pFCA008125;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:51:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I0pCCA008014
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:51:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.105.30e6e753 (4340)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:51:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <105.30e6e753.2c211176@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:51:02 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Re: The to-do list, Re: Dawn's velvet
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 8:42:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
lizyoung@fenris.net writes:

> Finish late 16th century Italian for me and BF (ok, so I have one shirt 
> mostly together, a smock cut out, the corset finished, and a trial 
> doublet for him basted. Hm, that leaves .... a lot! to do yet).
> Fix the sleeves of his old late 16th century stuff that fits him again! 
> (Yay) and see if I can alter my old late 16th century stuff to fit me again.
> Artistic dress - ok, this should be at the bottom of the list - where am 
> I going to wear it?
> Folkwear beach pajamas (if I can find the fabric I bought for it)
> More Folkwear clothes, chengsam, Viet Ao Dai, and finish a Thai blouse.
> Make a smock (hand smocked, embroidered, all that jazz)
> swimsuit, summer pjs, better bathrobe
> Good thing I have the summer off


Eep!  Looks like I'm not the only one with a lot to do.  Here's my "to-do" 
list, costume (four items) and non-costume (gasp!).  They're in priority order, 
since there will be a large break for schooling!:

Six more curtains/swags for my bedroom; they're cut out, but need to be 
hemmed and such.
A cheongsam in Chinese silk brocade that I bought four years ago
A knee-length dress of green silk-satin burnout
Eowyn's "Shieldmaiden" dress, hopefully in time for ROTK
Sideless surcoat and kirtle
A costume with wings, for a future CC
Italian Ren costume based on a portrait by Ghirlandaio
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 21:05:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I15THP007900
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:05:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I13iUw004651
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:03:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I13hVj016347;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:03:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com (web80404.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.59])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I13eVj016300
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:03:40 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618010335.68892.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:03:35 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EEFA926.9000006@fenris.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [h-cost] Love that codpiece! ;-D
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I got curious, so I checked out the Top 10 and, lo and
behold! the tasty nobleman with the codpiece everybody
is commenting on is a close friend that works at RPFN
as Sir Christopher Hatton.

Other details: yes, he does have the necessary
arrogance to pull off that stance, but is generally
also a very sweet and wonderful person, loads of fun,
dresses beautifully (you should see him in
Victorians!), dances as well as he dresses, manages to
hold down a real job, and...is both straight and
single (but seeing somebody).

A true rarity, especially in the Bay Area. ;-D

Dawn



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 21:25:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1PsHP007937
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:25:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1O8Uw006511
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:24:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1O7Vj027213;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:24:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com (web80409.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.64])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I1O4Vj027143
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:24:04 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618012359.59130.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:23:59 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:23:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or
	is the ...
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <12.322d5e49.2c210b4e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/17/03 8:12:36 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> dme_maud@pacbell.net writes:
> 
> > We're just going to have to make sure we don't
> both
> > wear the same dress to the same event at the same
> > time, or we'll look like we've been to a fire
> sale. 
> > ;-) OTOH, if we could get a few more people to
> make
> > the same dress, in the same colors, we could be
> the
> > "Artistic Reform Police." ;-D
> 
> *chants* I will not have another costume on my to-do
> list.  I already have 
> four, that's enough.  I will not put another costume
> on my to-do list.  No 
> matter how nice I look in dark green.  I will not...
> Dagnabbit Dawn...
> 
Cower more. bwahahahahahahahaha!

I paid $3/yd for the green velvet, and I can tell you
where to get it (it's in LA, in the garment district).

I'll shop for cream silk when I'm down there next
month, as everything I have is too thin/light
(habotai) or too heavy (dupioni/shantung). Maybe a
nice georgette...

Dawn




=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 21:33:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1XJHP007961
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:33:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1VYUw006973
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:31:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1VWVj000894;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:31:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1VSVj000818
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:31:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1c8.b658938 (4340)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:31:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <1c8.b658938.2c211ae1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:31:13 EDT
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or
	is the ...
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/17/03 9:27:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dme_maud@pacbell.net writes:

> I paid $3/yd for the green velvet, and I can tell you
> where to get it (it's in LA, in the garment district).

Keep dreaming, I live in New York!  And I'm going to college in PA.  Not 
getting to Cali anytime soon..

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 21:35:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1ZsHP007974
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:35:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1Y8Uw007177
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:34:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I1Y7Vj002067;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:34:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com (web80409.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.64])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I1Y5Vj002024
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:34:05 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618013359.60920.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:33:59 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:33:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: The to-do list, Re: Dawn's velvet
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <105.30e6e753.2c211176@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/17/03 8:42:47 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> Eep!  Looks like I'm not the only one with a lot to
> do.  Here's my "to-do" 
> list, costume (four items) and non-costume (gasp!). 
> They're in priority order, 
> since there will be a large break for schooling!:
> 
> Six more curtains/swags for my bedroom; they're cut
> out, but need to be 
> hemmed and such.
> A cheongsam in Chinese silk brocade that I bought
> four years ago
> A knee-length dress of green silk-satin burnout
> Eowyn's "Shieldmaiden" dress, hopefully in time for
> ROTK
> Sideless surcoat and kirtle
> A costume with wings, for a future CC
> Italian Ren costume based on a portrait by
> Ghirlandaio

And mine:

4 16th C. shirts
1 doublet
1 bodice
2 skirts
1 pair Venetians

All of the above by next weekend.

Then:

Gown/Sideless surcoat (along with underpinnings)
16th C. German Waffenrock
18th C. Robe a la francaise & petticoat
1870s ballgown (out of orchid silk!)
1927 tea gown

All this by July 20th.

I'm also hoping to finish the reorganization of the
sewing room, so we'll have room for all the machines
in one place, on the same floor.

Once this is done, I can concentrate on my next really
big project: a full set of clothing (every day and
"church/feast" wear) for an upper-middle class Flemish
matron from Antwerp, c.1580.

And now the "Artistic Reform Police" dress.

Just a few things to keep me busy during the "summer
hiatus" (I'm not working on any shows until the end of
August at the earliest).

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 22:09:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I29vHP008090
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:09:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I25wUw009544
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:05:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I25NHp017016;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:05:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I25KHp016968
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:05:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p23-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.204.87] 
	by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19SSK4-00008D-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:05:16 +1200
Message-ID: <3EEFC8D8.9020501@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:05:12 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Well, I would like to know about the person who claimed several times that 
> trim along the hem of a garment is rare.  I have pictures of Queen E. and her 
> minions dancing in my head to prove otherwise.  But that could just be the 
> percocet.  I mean, granted it could be an inch or so *above* the hem, but...?

Thats the one I finally decide to comment on;) As Robin said there are 
periods where trim is seen and usually on saints etc... but I suspect 
the person who commented was not thinking along those terms. It came 
across very much as one of those things they'd been told and was passing 
it along.

The blue cotton velvet dress in particular looked 15thC to me, but 
that's likely because I've been looking at so many fitted long sleeved 
gowns of the late 15thC, which often have included trim along the hem. 
(So far they all seem to be saints et al as it may be a fashion not worn 
by women who could afford to be included in donor paintings/portraits? 
Or rather not a style they wanted to be seen wearing in perhaps their 
only portrait?)

And I couldn't help but add to my comment mud wasn't really a problem 
for the upper classes;) I mean can you really imagine a working woman 
wearing a velvet trained dress in the field? Reminds me of all the 
criticism of trained dresses of the 1870s.. heheh.

michaela
http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm... finally getting to 
the end of this dress.. hooray!


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 22:32:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2WKHP008165
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:32:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2UNUw011940
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:30:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2UHHp000522;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:30:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta1.adelphia.net (mta1.adelphia.net [64.8.50.175])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2UDHp000432
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:30:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lola.broadviewnet.net ([24.49.198.52]) by mta1.adelphia.net
	ESMTP
	<20030618023241.DGCR25556.mta1.adelphia.net@lola.broadviewnet.net>
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:32:41 -0400
Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030617212755.02f4ee30@mail.broadviewnet.net>
X-Sender: windsong@mail.broadviewnet.net (Unverified)
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:33:23 -0400
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Victoria Wickens <windsong@broadviewnet.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Am I period or not?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 07:40 AM 6/17/03 -0600, you wrote:
>And the classic remark "Remember, purple was only worn by queens".
>
>Dianne

And since I AM the one in the purple Italian Renn and the doctored purple 
Italian Renn (with the french hood and the plastron) I was more than 
slightly offended at some of the thoughtless snarking going on with some of 
these pictures (actually, three of the gowns are my creation; the purple 
was my design, but not my execution)  Stuff like "you killed Liberace for 
his skin didnt you?"  Honestly, I don't mean to get all huffy and whatnot 
but it's thoughtlessness like this that makes it hard for people to take 
this seriously.  I thought the website was a good idea until the comments 
started going a bit too far.  This isn't a "I'm taking my dollies and going 
home" post, far from it.  I will continue to play in the SCA until the day 
I cock up my pointy toes, but if someone ever says to my face what's been 
posted by rude people in the "comments", I promise them a thoroughly 
scathing lesson in manners, etiquette, and the value of common courtesy.

Mother always said "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at 
all."  And those who cannot be civil or constructive shouldn't play at all.


Victoria Wickens
Lady Victoria's Castle Closet
http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc
Gallery: http://bluedragyn.net/~lvcc/castle-creations/

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 17 22:58:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2wuHP008294
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:58:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2vDUw014071
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:57:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2v7s3014181;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:57:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I2v5s3014147
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:57:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m212.in-tch.com [216.166.191.212])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5I2cHj16952
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:38:17 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EEFD561.F4F00357@in-tch.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:58:41 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
References: <20030616180108.C25512-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Silk can also be pretty "shiny" independent of what it's woven as (if
that makes any sense).  Of the silk fabrics and silk embroidery made of
"thrown" as opposed to "spun" silk that I've seen, the former are much
more light reflective than the latter, even hundreds of years later.
In the quote in the original post, it sounded more as if the commentor
on the website was questioning the use of satin in a partlet.
--sue

Drea Leed wrote:
> 
> >
> > This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing
> > this time period? Why or why not?
> 
> Silk came in both shiny and non-shiny/duller weaves.  Satin was a popular
> fabric of the time; their silk satin was much stiffer than the charmeuse
> silk you find nowadays. You can still buy heavy silk satin from places
> like Thai Silks, but you'll be shelling out $20 to $30/yd for the heavy
> stiff stuff that best replicates the 16th c. look.
> 
>  I've found that you can get a relatively accurate "look" by backing
> charmeuse satin with a stiff canvas or similar stiff fabric.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Drea
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:00:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I40MHP008649
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:00:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3wXUw019206
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:58:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3wK5Z015022;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:58:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3wH5Z014995
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:58:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGN00M7LSD2V9@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:33:42 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100%  velvet
	or is the ...
In-reply-to: <20030618012359.59130.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617203205.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <12.322d5e49.2c210b4e@aol.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 06:23 PM 6/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>I paid $3/yd for the green velvet, and I can tell you
>where to get it (it's in LA, in the garment district).
>
>I'll shop for cream silk when I'm down there next
>month, as everything I have is too thin/light
>(habotai) or too heavy (dupioni/shantung). Maybe a
>nice georgette...
>
>Dawn


Ok, I gotta bite... which store in the LA garment district did you get that 
price for velvet at? And is it fabric weight or upholstery weight? I am 
looking for green velvet to make drapes from. And I will be going to that 
area in August with Costume College.

TIA

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:01:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I41FHP008655
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:01:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3xTUw019308
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:59:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3xF5Z015731;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:59:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3wH5b014995
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:58:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGN00M7LSD2V9@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:49:06 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-reply-to: <20030618003753.63985.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617204345.0281fc18@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617102835.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 05:37 PM 6/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Look at the woodcuts, particularly those by Jost Amman
>(available from Dover). There is also a 7-volume set
>of "German Single-Leaf Woodcuts" that you might be
>able to find at your local university library (sets
>are currently selling for around $500) to peruse.
>
>Dawn


Alas, while my local college does have the whole woodcut series, it is only 
available during regular M-F 9-5 hours, and I don't have a car during that 
time. Someday I will get to that series to drool as I have heard many 
wonderful things about it.

On the Dover book, I will try to get that one. I had seen it once before 
years ago, and thought it didn't have enough on costume, and had more funky 
looking stuff... angels and whatnot like Amazon's excerpt has. Someone who 
has more knowledge of German stuff than me should post a review of the book 
at Amazon, please.

Thanks Dawn!!

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:01:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I41mHP008658
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:01:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3xxUw019356
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:59:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I3xm5Z016141;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:59:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com (web80404.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.59])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I3wS5Z015047
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:58:28 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618035822.856.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:58:22 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:58:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <168.2022ec1a.2c1ff6c5@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
  There's two guys 
> on there that you can't possibly resist- they've got
> terribly impressive 
> codpieces.  I mean, one's bejewelled!  But then, I
> think he may have been playing a 
> very impressive noble, or the king.  

<snip>

Uh, I'm not sure I should admit this, but I know both
the guys with said codpieces.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:16:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4GfHP008694
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:16:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4EsUw020583
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:14:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4Eg5Z024071;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:14:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4Ed5Z024033
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:14:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5I4EcPn010109
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:14:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.197.53] (tnt-1-117.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.53])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4EWdl010047
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:14:35 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100300bb1564396952@[136.152.196.229]>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:42:49 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 9:49 AM -0700 6/17/03, Kimiko Small wrote:
>At 11:08 AM 6/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>So the person making the comment may have had a point; it's just hard to
>>get all the nuances into a one-line comment. And the person who says "But
>>I can document it" probably has a stack of images to point to and feels
>>justified about it -- but that doesn't mean that *any* of them represent
>>real clothing.
>>
>>--Robin
>
>
>Wow, I hadn't realized the whole... library of art knowledge that is 
>required to replicate costumes accurately. How would one go about 
>learning all this fine line knowledge without getting my own PhD? I 
>am serious about this, as I very much want to improve my knowledge 
>of costuming details, and yet it seems rather overwhelming, that all 
>the art images we base much of our costuming on may not be 
>appropriate to base our costuming from.

Naturally, a lot of this simply comes from studying the topic for a 
long time, but there are a lot of useful steps to put you on the 
path.  One of the most useful ones is to question _everything_.  Take 
nothing directly at face value -- always question assumptions, look 
for alternate explanations, try to find other angles on the same 
topic.  Similarly to this -- associate with other people who question 
everything.  Beware of "authorities" (whether in print or in person) 
who offer only  single explanations and expect you to take them at 
face value.  Lean more towards those who discuss and explain multiple 
competing theories and show you the evidence and weaknesses for each. 
Engage in debate over interpretations and try not to get too 
emotionally attached to particular theories and interpretations.  Any 
time you think you have (or someone else has) "the" answer, give your 
critical faculties a swift kick and get them working again.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:20:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4K7HP008729
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:20:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4INUw021115
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:18:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4IF5Z026936;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:18:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4FU5Z024737
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:15:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-17-96.o1.jps.net ([216.119.17.96] helo=pavilion)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SUM4-0003au-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:15:29 -0700
Message-ID: <001001c33552$5be48840$601177d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030617212755.02f4ee30@mail.broadviewnet.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel  Re: Am I period or not?
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:28:27 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Not having a ren-faire background, I've come across this "purple" issue a
few times.  Seems those "in the know" dispute the "only royals wear purple"
which I haven't heard yet.  For the record, the proclamation (or statues -
I'll still working out the difference) issued under Elizabeth in 1574 states
"None shall wear in his apparel any silk of the color of purple, cloth of
gold tissued, nor fur of sables, but only the King, Queen, King's mother,
children, brethren, and sisters, uncles and aunts; and except dukes,
marquises, and hearls, who may wear the same in doublets, jerkins, linings
of cloaks, gowns, and hose; and those of the Garter, purple in mantles
only:"

So both these views have a half truth to them, it's not purple in general
for royals, but purple silk.  Also depends on the year, but I think under
Henry there was a similar rule, but I'd have to check.

I'll have all the sumptuary from the Tudor Monarchs up on my site in two
weeks, or the 30th.  Plus there will be a  downloadable version done in a
font that replicates The Hand of the Court of the Common Pleas so people can
print it off on parchment paper and use it at faire or where ever if they
wish.  Could be fun!!

Lisa

www.threadneedlest.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Victoria Wickens" <windsong@broadviewnet.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:33 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Am I period or not?


> At 07:40 AM 6/17/03 -0600, you wrote:
> >And the classic remark "Remember, purple was only worn by queens".
> >
> >Dianne
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:26:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4QHHP008753
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:26:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4OVUw021771
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:24:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4OK5Z000537;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:24:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4OC5a000461
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:24:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5I4OOHe021940
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:24:26 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5I4ONDA021938
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:24:23 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:24:23 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20030617135457.028471d0@127.0.0.1>
	<01ca01c3351a$06abcc90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
In-Reply-To: <01ca01c3351a$06abcc90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306180024.23325.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5I4OC5a000461
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Tuesday 17 June 2003 05:47 pm, Beteena Paradise wrote:
> I know I have seen a painting somewhere that shows a woman from the side or
> 3/4 turned away where you can see that her necklace fastens with a ribbon.
> I want to say it is perhaps Flemish or Italian, but I could be wrong. It is
> a bead necklace which fastens with a ribbon in the back (perhaps through
> rings?) not a necklace made of a ribbon, if that makes sense.
>
> I have searched my books and online and I can't figure out what it was! A
> friend wants to make a necklace and is hoping to document that sort of
> fastener. Can anyone help?

I've seen pictures of 16th c carcanets where the strand has a large metal ring 
(the ones I remember were oval in shape) on each end.  I think all you need 
to do is thread a ribbon through the rings and tie in a bow.

-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:32:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4WvHP008800
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:32:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4VFUw022565
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:31:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4V35Z004580;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:31:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80405.mail.yahoo.com (web80405.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.60])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I4Ux5Z004488
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:31:00 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618043054.5309.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:30:54 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:30:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100%  velvet
	or is the ...
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617203205.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com> wrote:
> At 06:23 PM 6/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >I paid $3/yd for the green velvet, and I can tell
> you
> >where to get it (it's in LA, in the garment
> district).
> >
> >I'll shop for cream silk when I'm down there next
> >month, as everything I have is too thin/light
> >(habotai) or too heavy (dupioni/shantung). Maybe a
> >nice georgette...
> >
> >Dawn
> 
> 
> Ok, I gotta bite... which store in the LA garment
> district did you get that 
> price for velvet at? And is it fabric weight or
> upholstery weight? I am 
> looking for green velvet to make drapes from. And I
> will be going to that 
> area in August with Costume College.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Kimiko

Answered offline (but it is a jobber in the 800 block
of Ninth Street, even-numbered side, if anybody wants
to know).

Dawn



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 00:55:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4teHP008874
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:55:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4rmUw024487
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:53:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I4re5Z016591;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:53:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80411.mail.yahoo.com (web80411.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.66])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I4rZ5Z016328
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:53:35 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618045329.85045.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:53:29 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel  Re: Am I period or not?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <001001c33552$5be48840$601177d8@pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Lisa Sinervo <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com> wrote:
> Not having a ren-faire background, I've come across
> this "purple" issue a
> few times.  Seems those "in the know" dispute the
> "only royals wear purple"
> which I haven't heard yet.  For the record, the
> proclamation (or statues -
> I'll still working out the difference) issued under
> Elizabeth in 1574 states
> "None shall wear in his apparel any silk of the
> color of purple, cloth of
> gold tissued, nor fur of sables, but only the King,
> Queen, King's mother,
> children, brethren, and sisters, uncles and aunts;
> and except dukes,
> marquises, and hearls, who may wear the same in
> doublets, jerkins, linings
> of cloaks, gowns, and hose; and those of the Garter,
> purple in mantles
> only:"
> 
> So both these views have a half truth to them, it's
> not purple in general
> for royals, but purple silk.  Also depends on the
> year, but I think under
> Henry there was a similar rule, but I'd have to
> check.
> 
> I'll have all the sumptuary from the Tudor Monarchs
> up on my site in two
> weeks, or the 30th.  Plus there will be a 
> downloadable version done in a
> font that replicates The Hand of the Court of the
> Common Pleas so people can
> print it off on parchment paper and use it at faire
> or where ever if they
> wish.  Could be fun!!
> 
> Lisa

Thanks, Lisa! I'm looking forward to seeing it.

The "Thou shalt not wear purple" at Faire dates from
the late 1970s or early '80s when the woman playing
ERI at the Renaissance Pleasure Faires (both North and
South) wore a purple gown, and Phyllis Patterson was
concerned that everybody could easily pick out the
Queen (this is the same reason they had everyone in
court dressed in black for years). This had a funny,
unintended side-effect one year: every year, Home Silk
Shops (a now-defunct chain of fabric stores) sponsored
a really good costume contest opening weekend. First
prize was (IIRC) 2 passes for the run of Faire, 2
hand-made pewter goblets, and presentation to the
Queen during the show on the Main Stage. A friend of
mine had found a set of old cotton velvet drapes
(purple) in a thrift shop and built her first
Elizabethan court gown, not realizing that there was a
prohibition on purple. She and her escort (dressed in
a nifty Spanish court suit currently hanging in my
wardrobe) walked away with 1st prize, but it marked
the only time that the winners of the Nobleman's
Costume Competition were not presented to the Queen.
They still got all the other goodies, and got
presented to the Queen when they won the following
year.

Are you including the exclusions for military on your
site?

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 02:47:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I6liHP026777
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:47:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I6jtUw003871
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:45:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I6joL1022419;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:45:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I6jjL1022374
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:45:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1195B27946
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:38:19 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EF0194C.2010200@grics.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:48:28 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel  Re: Am I period or not?
References: <20030618045329.85045.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030618045329.85045.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Also there is the matter of the word "purple".  Its modern meaning is 
more like royal-purple, which *isn't* the Royals' purple from the middle 
ages.  The medieval purple was more of a reddish tone, leaning towards 
magenta, which came from the mediterranean shellfish and was 
horrendously expensive.  The price and rarity of the shellfish dye was 
probably the reason for the "exclusive rights" thing.  And if someone 
had later found a way to fake it, the royalty could still have wanted to 
ban the fake hue, after investing all that money in the real stuff.  (I 
would have! :-P )

Heather L

Dawn Jacobson wrote:

>--- Lisa Sinervo <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Not having a ren-faire background, I've come across
>>this "purple" issue a
>>few times.  Seems those "in the know" dispute the
>>"only royals wear purple"
>>which I haven't heard yet.  For the record, the
>>proclamation (or statues -
>>I'll still working out the difference) issued under
>>Elizabeth in 1574 states
>>"None shall wear in his apparel any silk of the
>>color of purple, cloth of
>>gold tissued, nor fur of sables, but only the King,
>>Queen, King's mother,
>>children, brethren, and sisters, uncles and aunts;
>>and except dukes,
>>marquises, and hearls, who may wear the same in
>>doublets, jerkins, linings
>>of cloaks, gowns, and hose; and those of the Garter,
>>purple in mantles
>>only:"
>>
>>So both these views have a half truth to them, it's
>>not purple in general
>>for royals, but purple silk.  Also depends on the
>>year, but I think under
>>Henry there was a similar rule, but I'd have to
>>check.
>>
>>I'll have all the sumptuary from the Tudor Monarchs
>>up on my site in two
>>weeks, or the 30th.  Plus there will be a 
>>downloadable version done in a
>>font that replicates The Hand of the Court of the
>>Common Pleas so people can
>>print it off on parchment paper and use it at faire
>>or where ever if they
>>wish.  Could be fun!!
>>
>>Lisa
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks, Lisa! I'm looking forward to seeing it.
>
>The "Thou shalt not wear purple" at Faire dates from
>the late 1970s or early '80s when the woman playing
>ERI at the Renaissance Pleasure Faires (both North and
>South) wore a purple gown, and Phyllis Patterson was
>concerned that everybody could easily pick out the
>Queen (this is the same reason they had everyone in
>court dressed in black for years). This had a funny,
>unintended side-effect one year: every year, Home Silk
>Shops (a now-defunct chain of fabric stores) sponsored
>a really good costume contest opening weekend. First
>prize was (IIRC) 2 passes for the run of Faire, 2
>hand-made pewter goblets, and presentation to the
>Queen during the show on the Main Stage. A friend of
>mine had found a set of old cotton velvet drapes
>(purple) in a thrift shop and built her first
>Elizabethan court gown, not realizing that there was a
>prohibition on purple. She and her escort (dressed in
>a nifty Spanish court suit currently hanging in my
>wardrobe) walked away with 1st prize, but it marked
>the only time that the winners of the Nobleman's
>Costume Competition were not presented to the Queen.
>They still got all the other goodies, and got
>presented to the Queen when they won the following
>year.
>
>Are you including the exclusions for military on your
>site?
>
>Dawn
>
>=====
>Dawn Jacobson
>Vallejo, CA, USA
>
>Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 03:01:24 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I71NHP032359
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:01:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I6xZUw004962
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:59:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I6xYO3028512;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:59:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f32.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.32])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I6xWO3028455
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:59:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:59:27 -0700
Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:59:26 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121]
X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com]
From: "Jennifer Sena" <distantdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel Re: Am I period or not?
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:59:26 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <BAY7-F32f3sllNY30kk0003ed02@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2003 06:59:27.0343 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[287907F0:01C33567]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>Also there is the matter of the word "purple".  Its modern meaning is more 
>like royal-purple, which *isn't* the Royals' purple from the middle ages.  
>The medieval purple was more of a reddish tone, leaning towards magenta, 
>which came from the mediterranean shellfish and was horrendously expensive. 
>  The price and rarity of the shellfish dye was probably the reason for the 
>"exclusive rights" thing.  And if someone had later found a way to fake it, 
>the royalty could still have wanted to ban the fake hue, after investing 
>all that money in the real stuff.  (I would have! :-P )
>
>Heather L

Didn't purple later become a half mourning color?

Speaking of purple, what does one do with a very dissappointing purple 
velvet?  I haven't whacked off a piece and tried to wash the stiff 
scratchyness off the back yet, but it looked much less plasti-shiny in the 
pictures.  I'm not limiting the ideas to actual clothing.  I'm just trying 
to think of something to do with it if it's completely not wearable.



Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 03:11:12 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I7BBHP004378
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:11:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I79IUw005894
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:09:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I79HO3003529;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:09:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I79EO3003425
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:09:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0577.dial.kabelfoon.nl
	[62.45.82.66])
	by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C03A0BE70D
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:09:08 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <3EF010C3.5080305@kabelfoon.nl>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:12:03 +0200
From: Deredere Galbraith <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Thanks!
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi,

I would like to thank you all for the nice commeny on my partlet and 
help with information on the painting.
Today I will be going on vakation for 2.5 weeks. :-) :-) :-) .
Hopefully I wil compete with my weddingdress in a SCA Arts and Sience 
competition.
And come back with lots of nice pictures :-) .

Greetings,
        Deredere


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 03:49:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I7nSHP019924
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:49:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I7ljUw008885
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:47:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I7liO3020624;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:47:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.86])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I7lgO3020595
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:47:42 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618074737.88011.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:47:37 BST
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:47:37 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or
	is the nap rayon?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030618000815.22381.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net> wrote: > 

> We're just going to have to make sure we don't both
> wear the same dress to the same event at the same
> time, or we'll look like we've been to a fire sale. 

This is HIGHLY unlikely, for I live in the UK, travel a bit around Europe, want
to visit New Zealand, but have no intention in the foreseeable future to visit
the US. Seee.... unless you come to Kent, it just won't happen. ;-)

> ;-) OTOH, if we could get a few more people to make
> the same dress, in the same colors, we could be the
> "Artistic Reform Police." ;-D

*cackles*

> Feeling terribly silly because finals are over, grades
> are turned in, and (finally!) my summer vacation
> starts tomorrow afternoon.

CONGRATS!!! Enjoy your holidays.

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 04:00:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I80SHP024400
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:00:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I7wjUw009371
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:58:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I7wihD024262;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:58:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.93])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I7wghD024232
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:58:42 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618075836.74104.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:58:36 BST
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:58:36 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EEF4E7A.5050506@fenris.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Elizabeth Young <lizyoung@fenris.net> wrote: > 

> I like the overgown w/ the straps holding the sides of the skirt 
> together. And I don't think I like a high-necked underdress. I know I 
> don't like the sleeves on the square-necked undergown, but I don't know 
> which sleeve I do like. That's as far as I"ve gotten!

I think this one is my favourite one:

http://lamodebagatelle.com/single1.gif

 don't like this one because of the straps across the bust:

http://lamodebagatelle.com/violin1.gif

Of this one, again, I like the one in the back:

http://lamodebagatelle.com/couple1.gif

Nicole





=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 04:28:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8SPHP005809
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:28:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8QdUw011360
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:26:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8QbhD006433;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:26:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cumulus.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au
	[203.10.110.72])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8QYhD006414
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:26:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from main (dialup-18.144.221.203.acc02-geor-mor.comindico.com.au
	[203.221.144.18])h5I8QVZQ059270
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:26:32 +1000 (EST)
Message-ID: <002401c33573$d3046e60$1290ddcb@mshome.net>
From: "Ray Nevin" <nevray@netspace.net.au>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030618075836.74104.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:30:05 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, 
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This page shows the front and back of each layer which makes things clearer
when deciding if to buy the pattern.

http://dragonflydesignstudio.com/Patterns/LMBteagown.JPG

You know I had convinced my self that I was going to use the green silks and
stuff for something else and that I didn't really want this pattern.

Sharon Nevin

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 04:51:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8pIHP012386
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:51:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8luUw013162
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:47:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8lthD016826;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:47:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.86])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5I8lrhD016784
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:47:53 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618084748.99670.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:47:48 BST
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:47:48 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, 
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <002401c33573$d3046e60$1290ddcb@mshome.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Ray Nevin <nevray@netspace.net.au> wrote: > This page shows the front and
back of each layer which makes things clearer
> when deciding if to buy the pattern.
> 
> http://dragonflydesignstudio.com/Patterns/LMBteagown.JPG

Thanks! Well I don't like undergown B, but love the neckline of undergown C and
the sleeves of undergown A. I really do like Overgown A.

> You know I had convinced my self that I was going to use the green silks and
> stuff for something else and that I didn't really want this pattern.

HEHEHEHR!!! No chance!

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 08:07:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IC7EHP012900
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:07:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IC5KUw029287
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:05:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IC5Gi9012554;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:05:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IC5Bi9012486
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:05:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F8639C23
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:05:10 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EF0641A.2000909@grics.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:07:38 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Origins of the graduation robe
References: <2B11F59A.4C83CBB3.349D0FDF@cs.com>
In-Reply-To: <2B11F59A.4C83CBB3.349D0FDF@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Wow.  Is the supposed Masonic influence in the mortarboard design an 
urban legend?

Edwinna
bowing - deeply! - to your info

ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote:

>You could try my website
>http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/academic%20clothing.htm
>
>"Angela F. Lazear" <angelalazear@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Does anyone here on the list know the origins of the cap and gown?  My
>>daughter just graduated hs and she asked me how old they were.  I thought
>>something like 12C Europe, but didn't really have a clue?  If you don't know
>>offhand, do have a good online source for the info? I did a quick google and
>>didn't get very far, but I'm swamped right now and not at the computer much.
>>
>>Robin?
>>
>>angela
>>+++++
>>Angela F. Lazear
>>Cabbage Rose Costumes
>>http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
>>Theatrical Costume Design
>>
>>"I have no other but a woman's reason:
>>I think him so, because I think him so."
>>Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>h-costume mailing list
>>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 08:19:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICJiHP012932
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:19:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICHxUw000883
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:18:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICHwi9019312;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:17:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4-7.mebtel.net [64.40.67.40])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICHni9019247
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:17:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DDB139C5F
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EF0670C.5040606@grics.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:20:12 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <BAY7-F32f3sllNY30kk0003ed02@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <BAY7-F32f3sllNY30kk0003ed02@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Icky Purple (was Statutes...)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Do you live where it gets cold enough for a cape/cloak/coat thingie?  Or 
is the front plastic-y too?  Otherwise... A really REALLY ritzy tent 
roof?  A reclining-sofa shaped beanbag chair?  Boat seatcovers... I 
dunno I think the heat is getting to me

Edwinna
thinking "SCA-Event-on-the-River" (we could pretend it's the Thames)


Jennifer Sena wrote:

>> Also there is the matter of the word "purple".  Its modern meaning is 
>> more like royal-purple, which *isn't* the Royals' purple from the 
>> middle ages.  The medieval purple was more of a reddish tone, leaning 
>> towards magenta, which came from the mediterranean shellfish and was 
>> horrendously expensive.  The price and rarity of the shellfish dye 
>> was probably the reason for the "exclusive rights" thing.  And if 
>> someone had later found a way to fake it, the royalty could still 
>> have wanted to ban the fake hue, after investing all that money in 
>> the real stuff.  (I would have! :-P )
>>
>> Heather L
>
>
> Didn't purple later become a half mourning color?
>
> Speaking of purple, what does one do with a very dissappointing purple 
> velvet?  I haven't whacked off a piece and tried to wash the stiff 
> scratchyness off the back yet, but it looked much less plasti-shiny in 
> the pictures.  I'm not limiting the ideas to actual clothing.  I'm 
> just trying to think of something to do with it if it's completely not 
> wearable.
>
>
>
> Jennifer Sena
> Distant Designs
> http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi
>
> I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 08:21:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICLLHP012935
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:21:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICJYUw000980
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:19:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICJYi9019897;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:19:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICJUi9019870
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:19:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SbuU-0003y0-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:19:30 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel  Re: Am I period or not?
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:19:27 -0700
Message-ID: <000601c33593$de21fd60$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <001001c33552$5be48840$601177d8@pavilion>
Importance: Normal
cc: "'Lisa Sinervo'" <Lisa@ThreadneedleSt.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The Hand of the Court of the Common Pleas so people can
~print it off on parchment paper and use it at faire or where ever if
they
~wish.  Could be fun!!

[Sg:]  This does sound like fun!


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 08:24:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICO7HP012940
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:24:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICMNUw001232
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:22:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICMMi9021072;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:22:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICMKi9021053
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:22:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6769827871
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:14:54 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EF0681C.1040701@grics.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:24:44 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks!
References: <3EF010C3.5080305@kabelfoon.nl>
In-Reply-To: <3EF010C3.5080305@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Knock 'em dead Deredere!  Like anyone has to tell you that, that partlet 
will do that for you and the rest of the gown will finish 'em off!!!

Edwinna
envious of all you object-finishers out there:-)

Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would like to thank you all for the nice commeny on my partlet and 
> help with information on the painting.
> Today I will be going on vakation for 2.5 weeks. :-) :-) :-) .
> Hopefully I wil compete with my weddingdress in a SCA Arts and Sience 
> competition.
> And come back with lots of nice pictures :-) .
>
> Greetings,
>        Deredere
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 08:52:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICqUHP013237
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:52:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICoiUw002873
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:50:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ICogi9002377;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:50:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.92])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5ICofi9002329
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:50:41 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618125035.1038.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:50:35 BST
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:50:35 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: [h-cost] New book on shoes (2001) by June Swann
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I just picked up some books from Inter Library Loan and amongst them was one I
ordered just to see what it was like, because it got a good review in the
latest "Costume" issue. It is brilliant! The photos are breathtaking, just for
this it is worth ILL'ing it.

Swann, June. History of Footwear: In Norway, Sweden and Finland, Prehistory to
1950. Stockholm, Kungl. Vitterhets Historie och Antikvitets Akademien, 2001.

Gorgeous, sumptuous, fascinating, and that without evenhaving read it yet.

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:06:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ID6IHP013305
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:06:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ID40Uw003672
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:04:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ID3wvn007692;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:03:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ID3tvn007659
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:03:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-003-060.jps.net ([216.119.3.60] helo=pavilion)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19ScbS-000209-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:03:55 -0700
Message-ID: <002401c3359c$2ecd90a0$3c0377d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030618045329.85045.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel  Re: Am I period or not?
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:18:59 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dawn wrote:
>
> Are you including the exclusions for military on your
> site?
>
> Dawn
>
I'm including the six or eight statutes in full as transcribed by Paul L.
Hughes and James F. Larkin as found in their three volume work "Tudor Royal
Proclamations".  Since this is far less than 10% of the work, I'm applying
the "fair use" clause for educational purposes part of the copyright act and
hoping no one will complain.  For anyone interested in history, check this
set out as an ILL!  It's fascinating!!!!  And an easy read too.  There is
even a statue that says if someone in your household has the plague, you
must put a 10 foot pole out your window with something similar to a flag at
the top to warn others.  I wonder if this is the origin of the expression,
"I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole?"

Thanks too for the faire history story.  Some things I scratch my head at.
The SCA calling the list "Eric" was another puzzlement for me for ages.
There's a story behind that too, but I can't remember it anymore.  I've
heard the "purple" clarification a few times, but not the rule yet.   It
will be interesting to see what form it takes when someone eventually tells
me.

Lisa

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:10:53 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDAqHP013334
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:10:53 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ID8wUw004088
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:08:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ID8wvn010374;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:08:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ID8svn010336
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:08:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p45-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.204.109] 
	by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19ScgF-0003uq-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:08:52 +1200
Message-ID: <3EF0645A.3000500@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:08:42 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!!
References: <3EEDD340.5060001@kabelfoon.nl>
In-Reply-To: <3EEDD340.5060001@kabelfoon.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I was *finally* able to access your site tonight.. more than likely a 
connection somewhere along the line.. it took over a week for me to see 
my own site from NZ;)

All I can say is heel moi:)

michaela
http://glittersweet.com

> Yes it is finished!!!!!
> http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html
> 
> Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) .
> 
> Greetings,
>        Deredere
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:13:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDD0HP013346
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:13:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDBCUw004302
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:11:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDBBvn011598;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:11:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IDB8vn011556
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:11:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 92749 invoked by uid 1005); 18 Jun 2003 13:11:00 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.121173 secs); 18 Jun 2003 13:11:00 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.121173 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 13:11:00 -0000
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:11:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095448.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030618090319.U63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


> I am just scratching my head, because I have heard the not-shiny silks for
> some time, and yet see many examples from paintings of the period. I also
> hear that pink isn't appropriate either, yet I have examples that show
> otherwise... but that's another ball of wax that I don't have to worry
> about right now so I won't.

There are several "garban legends" floating around. Some were created by
renfaires (black isn't period for peasants, etc.)  Others are created by
overgeneralization ("x isn't period for this particular place & time"
becomes "x isn't period".) Other myths are taken from old costume books
that contain fallacious information but have become popular research
sources, like the whole concept of a "corselet" over a bliaut.

Until the 16th century, satin weaves were primarily dull satin.  It wasn't
until the later 16th century that quite shiny satin pops up in portraits
and paintings.  It is really hard to get an idea of just how the fabrics
of the time actually looked from potraits; I recommend the book "Five
Centuries of Italian Textiles", which has hundreds of photos of fabric,
many of them in color, from 1300s-1800s. It gives you a much better idea
of what fabrics actually looked like.

Also, some big museums around the country have collections of renaissance
textiles (like the Chicago Institute of Art.) It can be worth a road trip
to look at the actual thing.

Hot pink is period (made from orchil lichen), but was not widely used and
faded substantially over time. Rose pinks made from madder or kermes were
quite widespread.

Drea

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:13:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDDUHP013352
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:13:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDBcUw004340
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:11:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDBbvn011801;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:11:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDBYvn011781
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:11:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p45-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.204.109] 
	by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19Scio-000475-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:11:31 +1200
Message-ID: <3EF064FE.40000@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:11:26 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] burgundian orange dress
References: <001901c33027$b556faa0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
In-Reply-To: <001901c33027$b556faa0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Dear Michaela.
> I also must apologise for my late sneaking wiew on your orange burgundian
> dress.
> I love the way you have made your website, very nice!
> Interresting to see such old fashions, very nice!

Thank you so much Bjarne:) I am always too late at reading and 
responding to the list. So I shall take this time to let you know your 
work always inspires me:) Even long before I really joined up with 
H-cost I'd seen your page and absolutely adored your work. I cannot 
recall just now if someone I know in Europe told me about it, or if I 
stumbled across it in a search.

off to bed I toddle.

michaela
http://glittersweet.com



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:15:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDFjHP013361
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:15:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDE1Uw004492
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:14:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDE0vn012620;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:14:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDDvvn012593
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:13:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SclA-0003We-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:13:56 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:13:54 -0700
Message-ID: <000201c3359b$794d2dd0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <002401c3359c$2ecd90a0$3c0377d8@pavilion>
Importance: Normal
Subject: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes of Apparel
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~The SCA calling the list "Eric" was another puzzlement for me for ages.
~There's a story behind that too, but I can't remember it anymore.  I've
~heard the "purple" clarification a few times, but not the rule yet.
It
~will be interesting to see what form it takes when someone eventually
tells


[Sg:] Got my curiosity up, which list?  Our list (h-cost)?  A tourney
list?

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:22:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDMPHP013399
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:22:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDKbUw004915
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:20:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDKZvn015478;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:20:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDKVvn015438
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:20:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26665
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:20:31 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA26661
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:20:31 -0400
Message-ID: <024801c3359b$cef372d0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <BAY7-F32f3sllNY30kk0003ed02@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel Re: Am I period or not?
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:16:20 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Sena" <distantdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel Re: Am I period or not?


> Didn't purple later become a half mourning color?

Yes, though I believe it was in later periods like Regency, Victorian,
Edwardian, etc (I could be wrong!). I am not sure if they wore the darker
purples, but I know they wore the lighter ones and grays for half mourning.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:23:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDN4HP013403
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:23:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDLGUw004975
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:21:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDLGvn015894;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:21:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.116])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDLDvn015852
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:21:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-004scfairp0196.dialsprint.net ([63.184.224.196]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19ScsC-0001YT-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:21:12 -0700
Message-ID: <3EF074CA.4080206@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:18:50 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel  Re: Am I period or not?
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030617212755.02f4ee30@mail.broadviewnet.net>
	<001001c33552$5be48840$601177d8@pavilion>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Lisa Sinervo wrote:
> For the record, the proclamation (or statues -
> I'll still working out the difference) issued under Elizabeth in 1574 states
> "None shall wear in his apparel any silk of the color of purple, cloth of
> gold tissued, nor fur of sables, but only the King, Queen, King's mother,
> children, brethren, and sisters, uncles and aunts; and except dukes,
> marquises, and hearls, who may wear the same in doublets, jerkins, linings
> of cloaks, gowns, and hose; and those of the Garter, purple in mantles
> only:"

Thanks, Lisa.  I'd like to add something that's probably been said on 
this list before:  the bright color now called "royal purple" was not 
the color that was called purple in the 16th century.  Their purple was 
a much redder tone.

> I'll have all the sumptuary from the Tudor Monarchs up on my site in two
> weeks, or the 30th.

How wonderful!  Thanks!

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:30:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDUPHP013448
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:30:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDSYUw005442
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:28:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDSWvn019256;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:28:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDSTvn019240
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:28:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29350
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:28:29 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA22765
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:28:29 -0400
Message-ID: <025101c3359c$ec0840c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030617135457.028471d0@127.0.0.1><01ca01c3351a$06abcc90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
	<200306180024.23325.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:24:18 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener


> I've seen pictures of 16th c carcanets where the strand has a large metal
ring
> (the ones I remember were oval in shape) on each end.  I think all you
need
> to do is thread a ribbon through the rings and tie in a bow.
>
Ooh thank you, that helps a lot for another project I have in mind! I have
seen the painting she is basing her necklace on and it isn't what I had
envisioned. I think it is either a solid beaded necklace to slip over the
head or it has the little hook clasp I have seen on some extant pieces.

However, there is another issue. This is the necklace she is trying to
recreate. it is Durer's Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman:
http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer35.html
She was planning on casting the double cone shaped pieces because they look
like some sort of dark metal in her book. However, I have seen pictures
where they look decidedly green like a glass or gemstone bead. Has anyone
seen this piece in person or a true to color representation that might be
able to shed some light on this? She is trying to make it as authentic as
possible.

I gave her the link to sign up for this list, by the way, as I know she
would love to be able to learn from all of you as I have! :)

Teena

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:36:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDa4HP013471
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:36:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDYIUw005954
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:34:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDYGvn022119;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:34:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IDYFvn022096
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:34:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 3178 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 14:12:17 -0000
Received: from 66-44-104-75.s583.apx2.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO
	oldwaylane.net) (66.44.104.75)
	by shada.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 14:12:17 -0000
Message-ID: <3EF06A12.8050305@oldwaylane.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:33:06 -0400
From: Judy Mitchell <judymitch@oldwaylane.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book on shoes (2001) by June Swann
References: <20030618125035.1038.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030618125035.1038.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

N Kipar wrote:
> I just picked up some books from Inter Library Loan and amongst them was one I
> ordered just to see what it was like, because it got a good review in the
> latest "Costume" issue. It is brilliant! The photos are breathtaking, just for
> this it is worth ILL'ing it.
> 
> Swann, June. History of Footwear: In Norway, Sweden and Finland, Prehistory to
> 1950. Stockholm, Kungl. Vitterhets Historie och Antikvitets Akademien, 2001.
> 
> Gorgeous, sumptuous, fascinating, and that without evenhaving read it yet.

	ooh, thanks, that sounds wonderful! And Amazon sells it for 
$31.25. Especially with 357 pgs, 443 blk/wht and color illos.

	-Judy Mitchell

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 09:49:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDnkHP013539
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:49:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDlqUw007240
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:47:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDlpvn029503;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:47:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net
	[66.136.30.169])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IDllvn029451
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:47:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com
  (SMTPD32-8.00) id AD824CB0298; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:47:46 -0500
Received: From 74w0d01 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5
	MR1a);	id 1055944065347; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:47:45 -0500
Message-ID: <009f01c3359c$38aae500$0764a8c0@algx>
From: "Cyn Bucheger" <cbucheger@paclp.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030617135457.028471d0@127.0.0.1><01ca01c3351a$06abcc90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><200306180024.23325.cathy@thyrsus.com>
	<025101c3359c$ec0840c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:19:15 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


> However, there is another issue. This is the necklace she is trying to
> recreate. it is Durer's Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman:
> http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer35.html
> She was planning on casting the double cone shaped pieces because they
look
> like some sort of dark metal in her book. However, I have seen pictures
> where they look decidedly green like a glass or gemstone bead. Has anyone
> seen this piece in person or a true to color representation that might be
> able to shed some light on this? She is trying to make it as authentic as
> possible.
>

I've made this necklace, and in every copy of it (I have several since Durer
is one of my favorite artists) that I have seen the cone shape beads appear
to be black glass, which is what I used.  It looks "right", if that helps
any

Cyn


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 10:08:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IE8iHP013651
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:08:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IE1wUw008733
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:01:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IE1ugx007983;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:01:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IE1sgx007970
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:01:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-9-144.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.144] helo=pavilion)
	by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SdVZ-0007KM-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:01:54 -0700
Message-ID: <001001c335a4$48ab4b40$900977d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000201c3359b$794d2dd0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes of
	Apparel
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:16:58 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

A tourney list.  Some longtime SCA people might be able to tell that story.
I think it was American in orign and it carried over to the Australian SCA
folks.  I only remembered it sufficiently to know "Eric" was not historical
and let the details slide.

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:13 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes of Apparel


> ~The SCA calling the list "Eric" was another puzzlement for me for ages.
> ~There's a story behind that too, but I can't remember it anymore.  I've
> ~heard the "purple" clarification a few times, but not the rule yet.
> It
> ~will be interesting to see what form it takes when someone eventually
> tells
>
>
> [Sg:] Got my curiosity up, which list?  Our list (h-cost)?  A tourney
> list?
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 10:14:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEE5HP013658
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:14:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEBhUw009596
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:11:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEBggx013553;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:11:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web60002.mail.yahoo.com (web60002.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.109.116.225])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IEBegx013497
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:11:40 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618141134.79509.qmail@web60002.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [62.254.246.53] by web60002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:11:34 BST
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:11:34 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= <rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk>
To: H-costume list <h-costume@indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet source - details
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Sorry for the late response, I didn't have the details of my source at home.  The company is
called Humphries Weaving Company.  They display the following contact information:

The Humphries Weaving Company Ltd., DeVere Mill, Queen Street, Castle Hedingham, Halstead, Essex,
CO9 3HA, UK
Website: http://freespace.virgin.net/humphries.weaving/
 
Tel      +44 (0) 1787 461193 
Fax     +44 (0) 1787 462701 
E-mail  sales@humphriesweaving.co.uk
 
London Showroom - Alton Brooke Ltd., Chelsea Harbour
Tel      +44 (0) 20 7376 7008
Fax     +44 (0) 20 7376 7009
email abrooke@compuserve.com 
USA Showroom - Classic Revivals Inc., Boston
Tel      +1 (617) 574 9030
Fax     +1 (617) 574 9027
www.classicrevivals.com

So if you are feeling flushed with cash then these are the people to contact.

Rachel

=====
Threads of History
www.threadsofhistory.co.uk

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 10:16:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEGkHP013664
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:16:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEEuUw009871
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:14:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEEtgx015260;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:14:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEEqgx015226
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:14:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Sdi8-00024H-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:14:52 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet source - details
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:14:50 -0700
Message-ID: <000101c335a3$fc291cc0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <20030618141134.79509.qmail@web60002.mail.yahoo.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thank you Rachel..I have called a retailer of 100% silk and confirmed
that way also that it exists....I think the person I was dealing with
was more concerned with being right than really discussing the matter.
Oh well, I hope she learned a lesson.  I certainly won't be shopping
from her.   I certainly don't ascribe to the "customer is always right"
theory, but people just assume you are an idiot!

Sg


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 10:51:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEpRHP013710
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:51:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEnhUw013456
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:49:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEnfgx007135;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:49:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.157])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IEncgx007111
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:49:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 32-90.tnt-1.york.supernet.com ([64.41.32.90]
	helo=[64.41.32.118])
	by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SeFX-00050f-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:49:38 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a05010412bb162bab8a9a@[64.41.32.118]>
In-Reply-To: <200306181320.h5IDKmvp015615@net.indra.com>
References: <200306181320.h5IDKmvp015615@net.indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:48:40 -0400
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: fastusminimus <cahuff@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Subject: [h-cost] Re: urban color legends...
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Say is there a site for the 'urban color legends' like the one for 
internet ones??? I could really use one  to point some folks 
to...esp. the black one as I'm on the computer without the color/dye 
files one it...
Ta
Carol, currently processing the most amazingly black fleece--now for 
the sun to shine so the washed bit will dry!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 11:08:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IF8MHP013774
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:08:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IF6RUw015147
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:06:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IF6PbL019040;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:06:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.188])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IF6FbL018870
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:06:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-020dcwashp0405.dialsprint.net ([63.191.137.151]
	helo=DF1HCJ11)
	by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SeVp-000195-00
	for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:06:14 -0700
Message-ID: <001601c335ab$2ae7f430$9789bf3f@DF1HCJ11>
From: "Maryann Calvert" <yooper22405@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@net.indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:06:14 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-ELNK-Trace: 14c36d25b68b7c740ac2c6b81153bf749ef193a6bfc3dd48eb998e51c9f63043ac6709b0116d932d666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] middle eastern garb
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h5IF8MHP013774
Status: RO

A friend of ours is having a SCA Middle Eastern Wedding. I have to make garb for my husband, daughter (adult size) & myself. I just started to learn to sew a few months ago. I need to  find patterns! Can anyone help, please? Thanks in advance for all your help. I have learned so much from all of you already!
Maryann
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 11:21:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFLHHP013799
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:21:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFJMUw016415
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:19:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFJKbL028246;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:19:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFJGbL028191
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:19:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com
	ESMTP
	<20030618151916.EUJB4771.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com>
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:19:16 +0100
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030618161519.018eca70@pop.ntlworld.com>
X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:19:10 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Lynne Connolly <lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <001001c335a4$48ab4b40$900977d8@pavilion>
References: <000201c3359b$794d2dd0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5BEC7FCA;
	boundary="=======260B7F0F======="
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--=======260B7F0F=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5BEC7FCA; charset=us-ascii;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Good day, everyone!
I'm new to the list, so I thought I'd better introduce myself.
My interest in costume is primarily three fold.

1. I make doll's house dolls, sometimes in period. I'm conceiving an idea 
for a Brides series, one for each decade of the twentieth century. You can 
see some of the dolls on my website. When I can, I try to use the proper 
pattern, for instance, my Georgian doll Elizabeth, was made using a 
simplified sacque pattern of the period. Since the dolls are 5 and a half 
inches high, sometimes details have to be simplified!

2. I'm a historical novelist. My books are set in the Georgian and Regency 
period. Costume is only one of the things I have to get right!

3. Sheer fascination.


Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT
Award winning historical romance
http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/
The latest Richard and Rose story, VENICE, from 
<http://www.novelbooksinc.com/>Novelbooks Inc

"He smiled, and in a quick, convulsive movement gathered me up to him and 
pushed his hand up into my hair. I felt it give way in a shower of pins, 
falling down my back. This time his kiss held nothing gentle about it, 
releasing his passion and need. I returned it, my shyness evaporating 
chimerically as my desire for him rose in a heated rush."


--=======260B7F0F=======
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--=======260B7F0F=======--

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 11:22:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFMdHP013805
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:22:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFK3Uw016466
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:20:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFK2bL028730;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:20:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFJxbL028681
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:19:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from KatHouse (ip26.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.26])
	by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C801C6D8D9
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:19:59 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book on shoes (2001) by June Swann
Message-ID: <3EF020AF.17061.315EE763@localhost>
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <20030618125035.1038.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


> I just picked up some books from Inter Library Loan and amongst them
> was one I ordered just to see what it was like, because it got a good
> review in the latest "Costume" issue. It is brilliant! The photos are
> breathtaking, just for this it is worth ILL'ing it.
> 
> Swann, June. History of Footwear: In Norway, Sweden and Finland,
> Prehistory to 1950. Stockholm, Kungl. Vitterhets Historie och
> Antikvitets Akademien, 2001.
> 
> Gorgeous, sumptuous, fascinating, and that without evenhaving read it
> yet.

Oh, good! She finally finished it. I got the impression when I spoke 
with her that it would never be finished. 

She's a very interesting lady. She very gruff but also very nice. I 
met her at the Janet Arnold memorial. She came up to me and said 
"hello, I like shoes". (I didn't find out until much later what her 
name was.) She then proceeded to introduce me to all of her "friends" 
(like Naomi Tarrant and the director of the Pasold institute, as well 
as many others who were there.) She made me feel that I was her 
"protege". She left me talking with the Pasold guy but then later 
came back to talk more about shoes (which she had figured out I had 
an interest in and really enjoyed hearing her talk about.)

She's one of those people that could be considered "national 
treasures" like Janet Arnold, Jean Hunnisett, Santina Levey and 
others that you wish would stay forever young and available. Those 
(like Santina Levey) who are still alive should be greatly 
appreciated while they are still with us. I always wonder who will be 
trying to take their places because often times there do not seem to 
be many who are "coming up in the ranks."

Kat
<kat@redtrollforge.com>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 11:52:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFqHHP013871
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:52:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFoNUw019766
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:50:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFoKbL019203;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:50:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFoGbM019154
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:50:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (from eliz@localhost)
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h5IFoGox019152
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:50:16 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:50:15 -0600
From: Elizabeth Lear <eliz@indra.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] middle eastern garb
Message-ID: <20030618155015.GC24759@net.indra.com>
References: <001601c335ab$2ae7f430$9789bf3f@DF1HCJ11>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <001601c335ab$2ae7f430$9789bf3f@DF1HCJ11>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Maryann:
> A friend of ours is having a SCA Middle Eastern Wedding. I have to
> make garb for my husband, daughter (adult size) & myself. 

Ah, Middle Eastern garb is fairly easy, and quite comfortable.  And be
thankful it's not an Elizabethan wedding!  :)

Here are some nice sites with photos:
  http://www.mindspring.com/~lesterw/pictures.html
  http://www.mincom.gov.ma/english/gallery/cos/costumes.html
  http://www.geocities.com/tala571/patterns.html



http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/links-ME-costume.html says the
following, which I think is good:

If you don't want to draft your own, Folkwear makes some patterns that
you can use - quite a number of tunics, some vests and coats, and
several different styles of pants, even a burnous (Moroccan
cloak). Most Folkwear patterns include information on traditional
(although not necessarily SCA authentic) embroidery and decoration.
(Many places on the web sell Folkwear patterns)

        * Gaza Dress - a basic T-tunic in several sizes. Although
there's a woman on the package, this can be worn by anyone.
        * Egyptian Shirt - can be lengthened for a tunic. I use the
shaped yoke - it looks similar to those in Persian after Mongol
"contact" - but avoid the lotus and papyrus applique - it's definitely
NOT period.
        * Syrian Dress - T-tunic with "diamond" shaped yoke
        * Turkish Coat - very useful garment
        * Sarouelles - three different styles for men and women -
narrow and poofy (also spelled sarawal and serouel in literature).
        * Moroccan Burnoose - a North African cloak, traditionally worn by men.
        * Algerian Suit - actually late period Turkish.
        * West African Robe & Trousers
          Yoruba Tunic & Trousers
          - if you have a West African persona. And even if you don't,
check out the pants - they're rather typical of men's pants from all
over the Muslim world
	* Afghani Nomad Dress - a favorite of mine for mundane wear, although
i don't think it's documentable in period.

>From the Children's Collection:

* Little Folks - eight patterns and a variety of optional handwork
techniques for a Japanese Kintaro, Mexican Dress and Baby Shirt (basic
tunics with nice detailing), Korean Booties, Nepali Chupa, Moroccan
Djellaba, and Turkish Tunic and Bloomers. Very useful and covers ages
from a couple months to a couple years.

Atira's Fashions Patterns - commercially made patterns, primarily for
belly dancers.  They are used by a number of SCA Middle Easterners -
most are not really authentic, but you've got to start somewhere (for
example, the set-in sleeves on most of these are *not* authentic in
period).




-- 
Please allow up to 4 weeks for delivery.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:06:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IG6iHP013904
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:06:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IG4tUw021545
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:04:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IG4pVK000196;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:04:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IG4SVK029793
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:04:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19177
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:04:27 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA20785
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:04:27 -0400
Message-ID: <029401c335b2$b5737780$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030617135457.028471d0@127.0.0.1><01ca01c3351a$06abcc90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><200306180024.23325.cathy@thyrsus.com><025101c3359c$ec0840c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
	<009f01c3359c$38aae500$0764a8c0@algx>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:00:15 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Extremely helpful! Thanks!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cyn Bucheger" <cbucheger@paclp.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener


>
> > However, there is another issue. This is the necklace she is trying to
> > recreate. it is Durer's Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman:
> > http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer35.html
> > She was planning on casting the double cone shaped pieces because they
> look
> > like some sort of dark metal in her book. However, I have seen pictures
> > where they look decidedly green like a glass or gemstone bead. Has
anyone
> > seen this piece in person or a true to color representation that might
be
> > able to shed some light on this? She is trying to make it as authentic
as
> > possible.
> >
>
> I've made this necklace, and in every copy of it (I have several since
Durer
> is one of my favorite artists) that I have seen the cone shape beads
appear
> to be black glass, which is what I used.  It looks "right", if that helps
> any
>
> Cyn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:14:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGE4HP013918
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:14:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IG7HUw021806
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:07:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IG7GVK002048;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:07:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IG7DVK002009
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:07:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19830
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:07:12 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA24121
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:07:12 -0400
Message-ID: <02a001c335b3$17bfcdd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000201c3359b$794d2dd0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<001001c335a4$48ab4b40$900977d8@pavilion>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes
	ofApparel
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:03:00 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It had something to do with the little flags that hung from the rope
surrounding the list area. Originally they were red and another color
(yellow?). The other color was not as durable and so soon it was just red
flags. They jokingly referred to it as Eric the Red. Soon it was perceived
as being period to call it an erik.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes
ofApparel


> A tourney list.  Some longtime SCA people might be able to tell that
story.
> I think it was American in orign and it carried over to the Australian SCA
> folks.  I only remembered it sufficiently to know "Eric" was not
historical
> and let the details slide.
>
> Lisa
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
> To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:13 AM
> Subject: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes of
Apparel
>
>
> > ~The SCA calling the list "Eric" was another puzzlement for me for ages.
> > ~There's a story behind that too, but I can't remember it anymore.  I've
> > ~heard the "purple" clarification a few times, but not the rule yet.
> > It
> > ~will be interesting to see what form it takes when someone eventually
> > tells
> >
> >
> > [Sg:] Got my curiosity up, which list?  Our list (h-cost)?  A tourney
> > list?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:19:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGJ4HP013946
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGHAUw022998
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:17:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGH8VK009333;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:17:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail3.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-3.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.3]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGH4VK009283
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:17:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail3.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A07F339B006C; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:17:03 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A07E9BE012A; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:17:02 -0500
Message-ID: <009501c335b5$491261c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "h-costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:18:42 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
Subject: [h-cost] OT: Helpful Information
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I ran across some information last week on a tech list.  I wanted to pass it
along to you all because so many h-costumer have websites .  It is a study
on how spammers get your email address,
http://www.cdt.org/speech/spam/030319spamreport.shtml

After reading the study, you can easily use keystrokes to encode your email
address by going to this website, http://www.wbwip.com/wbw/emailencoder.html
.  All you need to do is write your email address and click on encode.
Since spammers heavily harvest from messageboards, I suggest you keystroke
encode your email address there too.

Now, I have been encoding our email addresses for a week on our new
webpages.  Instead of writing mailto: youremail@address.com , write mailto:
the numbers from the encoding website.  When you write the tag do like this:

<B><FONT FACE="Arial" COLOR="#890707">Questions??? email: </B></FONT><A
HREF="mailto:&#102;&#097;&#115;&#104;&#105;&#111;&#110;&#115;&#049;&#057;&#0
48;&#049;&#064;&#099;&#111;&#115;&#116;&#117;&#109;&#101;&#103;&#097;&#108;&
#108;&#101;&#114;&#121;&#046;&#099;&#111;&#109;"><B><FONT FACE="Arial"
COLOR="#800000">HERE</B></FONT></A></p>

Make sure to put the visual like as something besides your address or the
spammers will get it.  In the example, I used the word *HERE*.  When people
click on the word *HERE* their email software will pop up but in the
sender's name is your regular email address.  I tested and proved this one,
they don't see all the numbers.

Please feel free to pass this message along to friends.  The more people who
can stop these people from spamming us the better.

Penny Ladnier (who is sick of getting 300 spams a day)
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:24:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGORHP013965
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:24:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGM9Uw023646
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:22:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGM7VK013252;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:22:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80411.mail.yahoo.com (web80411.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.66])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IGM4VK013158
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:22:04 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618162159.81441.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:21:59 PDT
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:21:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, 
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030618084748.99670.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- N Kipar <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  --- Ray Nevin <nevray@netspace.net.au> wrote: >
> This page shows the front and
> back of each layer which makes things clearer
> > when deciding if to buy the pattern.
> > 
> >
>
http://dragonflydesignstudio.com/Patterns/LMBteagown.JPG
> 
> Thanks! Well I don't like undergown B, but love the
> neckline of undergown C and
> the sleeves of undergown A. I really do like
> Overgown A.
> 
> > You know I had convinced my self that I was going
> to use the green silks and
> > stuff for something else and that I didn't really
> want this pattern.
> 
> HEHEHEHR!!! No chance!
> 
I'm leaning toward dress A with sleeve B, and
overdress A (out of the green velvet).

Sharon, thanks for posting that link. I wasn't sure
what the back of each looked like from the pictures on
the La Mode Bagatelle web site.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:24:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGOcHP013968
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:24:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGMpUw023761
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:22:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGMnVK013823;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:22:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGMCVK013325
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:22:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SfhH-000369-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:22:12 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Introduction
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:22:07 -0700
Message-ID: <000101c335b5$c372a8d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030618161519.018eca70@pop.ntlworld.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Howdy Lynne!  You'll find yourself right at home here!  There are a
couple us of doll makers here!  

Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:26:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGQiHP013972
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:26:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGOuUw024088
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:24:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGOuVK015349;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:24:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGOrVK015322
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:24:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [205.133.149.145] (pm5-145.eos.net [205.133.149.145])
	by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01902
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:24:51 -0400 (EDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:33 -0400
From: Gail & Scott Finke <gailscott@eos.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB160954.95D2%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <200306180650.h5I6oML2024185@net.indra.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Am I Period or Not?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Well, that site is a lot of fun! The nasty comments should be tossed, and
some of the comments are just plain funny. But I agree they do show the lack
of a common idea about what really is period! It was fun to look at so many
different outfits, some of them really stunning.

I had to laugh about the site address, after it was kindly posted for me. I
saw that it was evident all the time -- but I had looked at it as some sort
of foreign word (amiperiodornot), maybe the name of a gemstone or something,
during my hasty scan.

Gail Finke

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:29:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGTuHP013983
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:29:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGS8Uw024550
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:28:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGS3VK017575;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:28:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail3.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-3.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.3]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGRwVK017536
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:27:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail3.plugit.com with
	ESMTP
	(SMTPD32-7.15) id A30E33F2006C; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:27:58 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A30DAE30146; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:27:57 -0500
Message-ID: <00b301c335b6$cdb4bd00$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <200306181320.h5IDKmvp015615@net.indra.com>
	<a05010412bb162bab8a9a@[64.41.32.118]>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: urban color legends...
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:29:34 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I don't have the urban colors but I am putting some of my color
documentation online in my library.  Currently I have the majority of a book
called Harmony of Dress online from 1922,
http://www.costumegallery.com/1922/Color/ .  Another section is the 1880s,
http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/colors.htm

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
www.costumegallery.com
www.costumeclassroom.com


[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:31:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGVeHP013997
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGTmUw024809
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:29:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGTiVK019024;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:29:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com (web80403.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.58])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IGTbVK018845
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:29:37 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618162932.94296.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:29:32 PDT
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:29:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes
	ofApparel
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <02a001c335b3$17bfcdd0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The "real" story of why the field of combat is called
an "Eric" in the SCA (from a couple of crusty old
fighters I know).

Originally there were 4 ropes used for designating the
field of combat. Each was a different color: white,
red, yellow, and (I think) blue. Three of the ropes
disappeared between events, leaving only 1 original:
the red one. Hence, it became known as "Eric, the red
rope." Over time, it got shortened to "Eric."

Dawn

--- Beteena Paradise <bkessinger@ureach.com> wrote:
> It had something to do with the little flags that
> hung from the rope
> surrounding the list area. Originally they were red
> and another color
> (yellow?). The other color was not as durable and so
> soon it was just red
> flags. They jokingly referred to it as Eric the Red.
> Soon it was perceived
> as being period to call it an erik.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
> To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was:
> Purple and Statutes
> ofApparel
> 
> 
> > A tourney list.  Some longtime SCA people might be
> able to tell that
> story.
> > I think it was American in orign and it carried
> over to the Australian SCA
> > folks.  I only remembered it sufficiently to know
> "Eric" was not
> historical
> > and let the details slide.
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
> > To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:13 AM
> > Subject: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was:
> Purple and Statutes of
> Apparel
> >
> >
> > > ~The SCA calling the list "Eric" was another
> puzzlement for me for ages.
> > > ~There's a story behind that too, but I can't
> remember it anymore.  I've
> > > ~heard the "purple" clarification a few times,
> but not the rule yet.
> > > It
> > > ~will be interesting to see what form it takes
> when someone eventually
> > > tells
> > >
> > >
> > > [Sg:] Got my curiosity up, which list?  Our list
> (h-cost)?  A tourney
> > > list?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > h-costume mailing list
> > > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:32:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGW4HP014004
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:32:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGUDUw024891
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:30:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGUCVK019472;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:30:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IGTwVK019170
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:29:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWokpyUru2UtnPaflw5gIJY/2ZrmJrBPzBg==">; Wed, 18 Jun 2003
	09:29:42 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2YJ3ELR; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:29:42 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Introduction
Message-ID: <20030618.121950.-164057.0.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6
From: catpurson@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

        Wow!  Welcome to the list.  What a multi talented lady you are. 
You are in good company here, and those of us who don't have all those
talents will enjoy yours immensely.  At least I will.  I spent a long
time visiting your site and it makes me want to go back and finish my
doll house.  (A very simple one compared to yours.)

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:34:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGYQHP014020
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:34:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGWeUw025133
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:32:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGWdVK021240;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:32:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGWaVK021154
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:32:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.177.1c392701 (4340)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:32:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <177.1c392701.2c21ee0f@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:32:15 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/18/03 9:17:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, drea@nospam 
writes:

> There are several "garban legends" floating around. Some were created by
> renfaires (black isn't period for peasants, etc.)  Others are created by
> overgeneralization ("x isn't period for this particular place &time"
> becomes "x isn't period".) Other myths are taken from old costume books
> that contain fallacious information but have become popular research
> sources, like the whole concept of a "corselet" over a bliaut.

Uh oh.  Drea, would Herbert Norris' "Medieval Fashion and Costume" be one of 
those?  Because he has drawings of a "corsage" over a bliaut.  Picture Eowyn's 
Shieldmaiden gown, with the necklines reversed (corsage is keyhole, bliaut is 
bateau-ish).  And my aunt gave me the book as a graduation present.

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:45:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGjjHP014096
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:45:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGhwUw026619
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:43:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGhuVK029741;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:43:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m28.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IGhsVK029672
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:43:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWokpyUru2Utn0rQL7tikXTZFQnELWULzwQ==">; Wed, 18 Jun 2003
	09:43:28 PDT
Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) 
 by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H2YKUMHG; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:43:28 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:34:11 -0400
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
Message-ID: <20030618.123413.-164057.3.catpurson@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,12-14,15-32767
From: catpurson@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii  
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Christine, please don't get me wrong.  It was sweet of your aunt to get
you a costuming book for graduation, but Norris is not the most accurate
of authors.  Sometimes he gets it right and sometimes he makes it up.  It
was one of the first books I got on costuming too.  I think it is one
that too many people get first and then just stay with it as gospel.  Use
it, but carefully.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:50:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGoaHP014127
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:50:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGmYUw027183
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:48:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGmXVK003282;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:48:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGmTVK003236
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:48:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail21.ureach.com (mail21.ureach.com [172.16.2.81])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07076
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:48:28 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail21.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06614
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:48:28 -0400
Message-ID: <02ed01c335b8$db864410$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030618162932.94296.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and StatutesofApparel
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:44:16 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks for setting it straight. I had gotten the story from someone who
heard it from someone, etc...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dawn Jacobson" <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and
StatutesofApparel


> The "real" story of why the field of combat is called
> an "Eric" in the SCA (from a couple of crusty old
> fighters I know).
>
> Originally there were 4 ropes used for designating the
> field of combat. Each was a different color: white,
> red, yellow, and (I think) blue. Three of the ropes
> disappeared between events, leaving only 1 original:
> the red one. Hence, it became known as "Eric, the red
> rope." Over time, it got shortened to "Eric."
>
> Dawn
>
> --- Beteena Paradise <bkessinger@ureach.com> wrote:
> > It had something to do with the little flags that
> > hung from the rope
> > surrounding the list area. Originally they were red
> > and another color
> > (yellow?). The other color was not as durable and so
> > soon it was just red
> > flags. They jokingly referred to it as Eric the Red.
> > Soon it was perceived
> > as being period to call it an erik.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
> > To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was:
> > Purple and Statutes
> > ofApparel
> >
> >
> > > A tourney list.  Some longtime SCA people might be
> > able to tell that
> > story.
> > > I think it was American in orign and it carried
> > over to the Australian SCA
> > > folks.  I only remembered it sufficiently to know
> > "Eric" was not
> > historical
> > > and let the details slide.
> > >
> > > Lisa
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
> > > To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:13 AM
> > > Subject: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was:
> > Purple and Statutes of
> > Apparel
> > >
> > >
> > > > ~The SCA calling the list "Eric" was another
> > puzzlement for me for ages.
> > > > ~There's a story behind that too, but I can't
> > remember it anymore.  I've
> > > > ~heard the "purple" clarification a few times,
> > but not the rule yet.
> > > > It
> > > > ~will be interesting to see what form it takes
> > when someone eventually
> > > > tells
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Sg:] Got my curiosity up, which list?  Our list
> > (h-cost)?  A tourney
> > > > list?
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > h-costume mailing list
> > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > h-costume mailing list
> > > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 12:51:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGphHP014130
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:51:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGnQUw027277
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:49:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGnPVK003934;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:49:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGnMVK003893
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:49:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07300
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:49:21 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA07296
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:49:21 -0400
Message-ID: <02f401c335b8$fb1e56f0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <177.1c392701.2c21ee0f@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:45:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Norris.... *shudder*

----- Original Message -----
From: <IceGirlNIN@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?


> In a message dated 6/18/03 9:17:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
drea@nospam
> writes:
>
> > There are several "garban legends" floating around. Some were created by
> > renfaires (black isn't period for peasants, etc.)  Others are created by
> > overgeneralization ("x isn't period for this particular place &time"
> > becomes "x isn't period".) Other myths are taken from old costume books
> > that contain fallacious information but have become popular research
> > sources, like the whole concept of a "corselet" over a bliaut.
>
> Uh oh.  Drea, would Herbert Norris' "Medieval Fashion and Costume" be one
of
> those?  Because he has drawings of a "corsage" over a bliaut.  Picture
Eowyn's
> Shieldmaiden gown, with the necklines reversed (corsage is keyhole, bliaut
is
> bateau-ish).  And my aunt gave me the book as a graduation present.
>
> Christine
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 13:00:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IH0KHP014140
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:00:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGuaUw028074
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:56:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGuTLg008946;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:56:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IGuJLg008806
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:56:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08389
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:23 -0500
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <177.1c392701.2c21ee0f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306181207301.7813-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: [h-cost] Norris, was: Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:

> Uh oh.  Drea, would Herbert Norris' "Medieval Fashion and Costume" be
> one of those? ... And my aunt gave me the book as a graduation
> present.

Well, it is very pretty and will make a nice keepsake ;-)

Norris is so riddled with assumptions, inventions, and outright errors
that it's impossible to offer guidance on how to separate the wheat from
the chaff. Norris compounds misinterpretations from his Victorian
predecessors with his own "improvements" and "corrections." Because of the
book's easy availability as a popular source and its seductive
completeness, I consider it the single most pervasive source of
misinterpretations of medieval costume among re-enactment costumers today.
Even costumers who have never looked at Norris will pick up Norris's
errors from other costumers in their groups, because so many of his
assumptions and interpretations have been enshrined in the conventional
wisdom. 

I don't even like to recommend to people that they use the book to get
general ideas and then hunt for better documentation, because there's too
great a chance you'll get erroneous impressions in your head ... and
because so many of his "facts" don't seem to have any historical basis.

(I've been meaning to pick up a copy of the Dover reprint at some point
because I use it so often to trace origins of misconceptions. I have a
copy out from the library right now -- thanks for reminding me to renew it
today.  I have an original edition of the Tudor volume, on my "Notorious
Sources" shelf, but not the medieval volume. If anyone wants to unload
their copy cheap, I'll buy it.)

--Robin



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 13:30:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHU4HP014212
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:30:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHSGUw002282
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:28:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHSBLg002653;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:28:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHS5Lg002535
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:28:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08607
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:51:09 -0500
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:51:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306181227540.7813-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Kimiko Small wrote:

<in response to one of my posts>

> Wow, I hadn't realized the whole... library of art knowledge that is
> required to replicate costumes accurately. How would one go about
> learning all this fine line knowledge without getting my own PhD? I am
> serious about this, as I very much want to improve my knowledge of
> costuming details, and yet it seems rather overwhelming, that all the
> art images we base much of our costuming on may not be appropriate to
> base our costuming from.
> 
> Are there any specific books or something I can research to learn a
> small fraction of what you have obviously learned over the years?
> Something to get me started in the right direction?

Wow, I leave the computer for half a day, and look at the thread I missed.
I wasn't ignoring you, honest ... though I'm glad everyone else jumped in,
so now I don't have to repeat the good stuff other people said.

A few unconnected thoughts to add on to what's already been posted:

-- Focus on a specific period as your base for your research. In another
post, you mentioned that you do have a period of interest -- good. I've
found that in the SCA in particular, there's a habit of drawing the line
around the "SCA period" that covers 1,000 years and many cultures, and
saying that something is or isn't "period" based on that. This is far too
large and disparate a context to get a handle on. Focus on a specific
time/place bite, and work out from there. You'll certainly want to keep an
eye on the margins -- the time periods before and after your period of
interest, and the cultures that interact with your culture of interest --
but you need a place to set your feet.

-- Art doesn't exist in a vacuum. You need a good grounding in the history
of your place/time as well. The one good thing about the costume history
class I had in college was that it required the basic History of Western
Civilization course as a prerequisite. That made so much sense!

-- Look at as many art sources as you can, focused on as narrow a
time/place area as you can. You'll know you've hit your stride when art
from other places and periods looks odd, but art from your own place and
period looks "normal." By immersing yourself in the visual images of a
culture, you will develop a sense for what is considered the "norm" and
what might be exceptions or outliers. If you see something in only a
couple of images, that's your first hint that it might be a symbolic
image, an artist's fantasy invention, a later restoration, a
mis-identified or mis-dated piece, or something else not reliable.

-- Look at art from a broad range of media. Each medium has its own
conventions and limitations. Color in tapestries is more reliable for
clothing color than color in manuscripts, for instance. Dating on
manuscripts is more reliable than dating on tapestries. Learn something
about each medium that was an important source for your period. If some
particular type of artwork thrived in your place/time context, find books
that focus on that type of artwork; you'll learn about the way the artists
operated, and you'll also find more pictures that don't make it to the
general survey sources. (I must have 15 books just on monumental brasses,
for instance, which were an important source of visual images in my
specialty period of 14th c. England -- and I can tell you all sorts of
things about the specific ways in which they're unreliable.)

-- Read the captions. Find out who the people are in the pictures. In many
cases, they'll be royalty, saints, Biblical or historical figures,
allegorical images, or foreigners -- all of whom may have suspect elements
to their costume as a means of visual identification. Eventually you will
learn how artists of your specific period manipulated costume elements for
purposes of symbolism and identification. In my period, saints are common
in artwork, and each has its own visual iconography that may influence
depiction. I keep my reference book on saints close by. I can now walk
through a museum and mutter "Agnes," "Barbara," "Catherine," "Dorothy,"
etc. at a glance as I pass by paintings.

-- Don't rely only on artwork. If you're in a period that has extant
garments, read up on them. If your period has accessible literature or
poetry, read some of it. If you have documentary evidence, look for
sources on those -- but that's much harder to find, and a life's work in
itself. If you're in the 16th century, you have almost everything,
including good books by academics *about* the clothing of your period that
will distill much of it for you, starting with Janet Arnold's Elizabethan
studies.

-- Bear in mind the class distinctions of your time/place. Not everything
in every image is appropriate for every person, or every context. Images
often are constructed to tell you what type of person someone is and what
circumstances they are in; if you mix and match elements from different
images, you need to have a solid understanding of whether they go
together.

OK, my brain is dumped for the moment. Discuss amongst yourselves ;-)

--Robin



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 13:35:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHZEHP014216
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:35:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHXNUw002819
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:33:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHXKLg006297;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:33:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHX2Lg006044
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:33:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11])
	by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFCE336981
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:32:20 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian))
	id 19SgnE-00081X-00
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:32:20 -0400
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <20030618090319.U63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095448.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
	<20030618090319.U63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:32:19 -0400
Message-Id: <E19SgnE-00081X-00@eggnog>
From: Kirrily Robert <skud@infotrope.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Drea wrote:
> Until the 16th century, satin weaves were primarily dull satin.  It wasn't
> until the later 16th century that quite shiny satin pops up in portraits
> and paintings.  It is really hard to get an idea of just how the fabrics
> of the time actually looked from potraits; I recommend the book "Five
> Centuries of Italian Textiles", which has hundreds of photos of fabric,
> many of them in color, from 1300s-1800s. It gives you a much better idea
> of what fabrics actually looked like.

Got an ISBN for that book?  I'm having trouble finding it.

K.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 13:37:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHbVHP014223
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:37:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHZgUw003165
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:35:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHZfLg008174;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:35:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80407.mail.yahoo.com (web80407.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.62])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IHZcLg008080
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:35:38 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030618173533.88649.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:35:33 PDT
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:35:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <177.1c392701.2c21ee0f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance period silk shiny
	or not?)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:
> Uh oh.  Drea, would Herbert Norris' "Medieval
> Fashion and Costume" be one of 
> those?  Because he has drawings of a "corsage" over
> a bliaut.  Picture Eowyn's 
> Shieldmaiden gown, with the necklines reversed
> (corsage is keyhole, bliaut is 
> bateau-ish).  And my aunt gave me the book as a
> graduation present.

OK, here's a question for everybody--if you're giving
a book to a new costumer as a gift, what title (under
$15 or so) would you give?

I just ran up against this because I wanted to get a
little "thank you" for my assistant on "Oz," and she's
a beginning costumer. I got her a copy of Kohler,
mostly because it's one of the first books I bought
for historical costuming, and I've used my copy a
bunch over the years.

So what titles would you place on the list?

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 13:50:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHopHP014266
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:50:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHi0Uw004351
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:44:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHhuLg014193;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:43:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IHhrLh014128
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:43:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-162.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[64.160.176.162])h5IHj0Ae031647
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:00 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:43:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance period
	silk shiny or not?)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <20030618173533.88649.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-Id: <6A98FB5A-A1B4-11D7-9FAC-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Janet Arnold's books,  Nancy Bradfield's (which I am forgetting the 
title of),
Naorah Waugh Corsets and Crinolines.


>
> OK, here's a question for everybody--if you're giving
> a book to a new costumer as a gift, what title (under
> $15 or so) would you give?
>
> I just ran up against this because I wanted to get a
> little "thank you" for my assistant on "Oz," and she's
> a beginning costumer. I got her a copy of Kohler,
> mostly because it's one of the first books I bought
> for historical costuming, and I've used my copy a
> bunch over the years.
>
> So what titles would you place on the list?
>
> Dawn
>
> =====
> Dawn Jacobson
> Vallejo, CA, USA
>
> Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:21:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IILEHP014348
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:21:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIJEUw008433
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIJ9gs008899;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIJ5gs008824
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:19:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from eggnog (skud.ott.istop.com [66.11.173.11])
	by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C440636981
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:19:04 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian))
	id 19ShWS-00084P-00
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:19:04 -0400
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <E19SgnE-00081X-00@eggnog>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095448.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
	<20030618090319.U63988-100000@shell.siscom.net> <E19SgnE-00081X-00@eggnog>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:19:04 -0400
Message-Id: <E19ShWS-00084P-00@eggnog>
From: Kirrily Robert <skud@infotrope.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I wrote:
> Got an ISBN for that book?  I'm having trouble finding it.
> 
> 

Never mind... found them on bookfinder.com for about $100 second-hand,
which is out of my budget for now :-/

K.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:33:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIXcHP014372
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:33:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIVeUw009736
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIVegs018041;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIV6gu017654
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGO00CG0WRTVR@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:17:00 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-reply-to: <20030618090319.U63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618110915.02e55818@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095448.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>Until the 16th century, satin weaves were primarily dull satin.  It wasn't
>until the later 16th century that quite shiny satin pops up in portraits
>and paintings.

I wonder what changed.

>It is really hard to get an idea of just how the fabrics
>of the time actually looked from potraits; I recommend the book "Five
>Centuries of Italian Textiles", which has hundreds of photos of fabric,
>many of them in color, from 1300s-1800s. It gives you a much better idea
>of what fabrics actually looked like.

I found a copy online, but it is $100 for a used copy. I guess it will have 
to wait a bit before I can get it in my budget, or my hubby will be upset. 
I buy way too many books it seems.

>Also, some big museums around the country have collections of renaissance
>textiles (like the Chicago Institute of Art.) It can be worth a road trip
>to look at the actual thing.

I haven't been to Chicago since I was a child, but if anyone knows of 
museums with textiles around California, I wouldn't mind making the trip 
locally.

>Hot pink is period (made from orchil lichen), but was not widely used and
>faded substantially over time. Rose pinks made from madder or kermes were
>quite widespread.

When I did Scots, we used to make purple samples in wool from lichens as 
well. Lovely color but not as colorfast as I would have liked. Never did 
make anything from the small amount I had. We also came up with pretty 
pinks in various hues from berries. One lady made her leine from a berry 
dyed cotton and it was sorta mauve-y pink. Not really my color, but it was 
nice.

>Drea

Thanks Drea! I appreciate your comments. I am really learning a lot from 
you ladies and gentlemen.

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:33:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIXeHP014375
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:33:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIVtUw009758
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIVpgs018153;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIV6gw017654
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGO00CG0WRTVR@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:21:51 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-reply-to: <20030618090319.U63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618111919.02e5d600@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617095448.0281cd90@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 09:11 AM 6/18/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>I recommend the book "Five
>Centuries of Italian Textiles", which has hundreds of photos of fabric,
>many of them in color, from 1300s-1800s. It gives you a much better idea
>of what fabrics actually looked like.


Doing a google search on the above book title, I found this interesting 
page that lists various books on textiles for various SCA periods up to 
1600. "This bibliography is a collection of references to the specifics of 
historic Old World weave structures before 1600"

http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/textilebiblio.html

Long page, but seems very informative.

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:34:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIYOHP014379
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:34:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIVBUw009659
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIV9gs017685;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIV6gs017654
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGO00CG0WRTVR@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:04:20 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306181227540.7813-100000@shell.nightowl.ne t>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618110256.00af8760@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 12:51 PM 6/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Wow, I leave the computer for half a day, and look at the thread I missed.
>I wasn't ignoring you, honest ... though I'm glad everyone else jumped in,
>so now I don't have to repeat the good stuff other people said.
>
>A few unconnected thoughts to add on to what's already been posted:


Hi Robin

Thanks so much for your posting and thoughts. I really appreciate your 
taking the time to give us a glimpse into what you have learned and how to 
go about in a similar process.

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:36:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIaRHP014390
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:36:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIYWUw010003
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:34:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIYSgs019982;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:34:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IIYKgs019859
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:34:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 25753 invoked by uid 1005); 18 Jun 2003 18:34:11 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.078055 secs); 18 Jun 2003 18:34:11 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.078055 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 18:34:11 -0000
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:34:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <177.1c392701.2c21ee0f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030618140046.P63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
> Uh oh.  Drea, would Herbert Norris' "Medieval Fashion and Costume" be one of
> those?  Because he has drawings of a "corsage" over a bliaut.  Picture Eowyn's
> Shieldmaiden gown, with the necklines reversed (corsage is keyhole, bliaut is
> bateau-ish).  And my aunt gave me the book as a graduation present.

Oh yeah, Norris is one of the more notorious perps when it comes to
getting jiggy with costume history.  He did the best with what he
had, but felt no compunction about "elaborating on" and "interpreting"
period sources, using nothing but his imagination and early 20th century
fashion sense.

There is actually some very good information in Norris as well, but you
really have to know your stuff to filter the good from the bad. I use it
as an "overview" source, if at all.

Drea

 > > Christine
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:39:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIdkHP014399
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:39:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIbpUw010452
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:37:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIbmgs022570;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:37:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail3.plugit.com (wsip-66-210-79-3.pn.at.cox.net [66.210.79.3]
	(may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIbfgs022472
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:37:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by mail3.plugit.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A17520034; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:37:41 -0500
Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-7.15) id A17422B008A; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:37:40 -0500
Message-ID: <00fa01c335c8$d1d2f2a0$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "h-costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:38:32 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com)
	for viruses.
Subject: [h-cost] New Costume Exhibit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Rachel Torrey asked me to pass this along about her exhibit:

Exhibit: La Belle Époque
Where: Museum of Art and History, Santa Cruz, CA

The years preceding the First World War are referred to today as La Belle
Époque, or “The Beautiful Era.”  There is some debate among historians as to
the exact years encompassing this period, yet it is generally considered to
be between 1890 and 1914, ending abruptly with the onset of World War I. By
the end of the Victorian era (1901), the flourishing industrial economies of
America and Europe had created stability and vast wealth, and the prosperity
of the times affected the standards of living of all classes. The lavish
lifestyles of the new American aristocracy were reflected in their clothing
and decorative arts.  Fashion and interiors were opulent and overburdened
with expensive detail.

When contemplating the aesthetics of la Belle Époque, one is drawn to
visions of elegant, fashionable ladies and gentlemen promenading in stunning
costumes. The Nouveaux Riches of the gilded age missed no opportunity to
lavishly flaunt their fortunes in the decades before the income tax. This
extravagance of the aristocracy is most clearly evident in the opulent
attire of the fashionable women of the Edwardian (1901-1911) and pre-WWI
years. A ladies age, marital standing, and social rank were clearly denoted
by her clothing; therefore much attention was lavished on her wardrobe.

This exhibit consists of approximately 12 dresses from about 1892 to 1914
from the museum’s permanent collection.  Other objects from the period
include shoes, hats, purses and other accessories.  Photographs from the
period will also be on display highlighting ladies from Santa Cruz who
embodied the forward thinking ideal of “the New Woman”.   This exhibit runs
from July 5 to October 5 2003.   These dresses will be displayed in the Art
Forum Gallery on the 3rd floor of the museum building at 705 Front Street in
Santa Cruz California.

For more information please visit the Museum of Art and History’s website:
http://www.santacruzmah.org/369_belle_epoque.html

or Email Rachel Torrey at harleyquinn669@yahoo.com

Curator led tours will start at 2:00 pm on the following dates:

July 5th
July 19th
August 9th
September 13th



[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:47:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIl7HP014420
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:47:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIihUw011373
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:44:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIiggs028767;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:44:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIicgs028635
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:44:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com(16099)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:44:18 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-m32.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by
	air-id11.mx.aol.com (v94.29) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-3ee33ef0b30234e; Wed,
	18 Jun 2003 14:44:18 -0400
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:44:18 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7D71B35B.403889A9.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: [h-cost] Colors per month...
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi-

This weekend, I was reading a commonplace book manuscript which I found absolutely fascinating.  there was a page about apparel which included such tidbits as:

Bulls go mad when they see red clothing
Elephants do the same when they see white

But what I thought was really cool was - 

Colors for each month
January - White
February - Ash Color
etc.

Have you seen anything like this before?  I believe this portion of the manuscript dates during Elizabeth's late reign.

Constance
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:48:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IImJHP014426
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:48:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIkUUw011607
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:46:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIkTgs000310;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:46:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IIkRgs000278
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:46:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 61693 invoked by uid 1005); 18 Jun 2003 18:46:18 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.079018 secs); 18 Jun 2003 18:46:18 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.079018 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 18:46:18 -0000
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:46:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <E19SgnE-00081X-00@eggnog>
Message-ID: <20030618144227.J63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Here you go:

Fanelli, Rosalia Bonito. Five Centuries of Italian
Textiles: 1300-1800, A Selection from the Museo del
Tessuto Prato. Prato: Cassa di Risparmi e Depositi di
Prato, 1981.

It's used, but bookfinder.com should have some copies for sale.

It has over 100 photos of textiles & paintings showing textiles.  I
particularly like the book's method of showing a period painting of a
textile next to a photo of a textile with a near-identical motif. It
really lets you get a feel for what painted textiles "actually" looked
like in real life.

Enjoy,

Drea (the budget-smiter)


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 14:57:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIvwHP014446
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:57:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIs7Uw012629
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:54:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IIs5gs007388;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:54:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IIs1gs007291
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:54:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 86163 invoked by uid 1005); 18 Jun 2003 18:53:52 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.066578 secs); 18 Jun 2003 18:53:52 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.066578 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 18:53:52 -0000
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:53:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance period
 silk shiny or not?)
In-Reply-To: <6A98FB5A-A1B4-11D7-9FAC-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
Message-ID: <20030618144645.N63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

That's a problem--all of the really good "beginner" books (like the ones
mentioned by Heather) are in the $25-$50 range. Anything below 15 will
probably be OK, but not a "great intro". Kohler has some good patterns,
and is as good a book as any you'll find under $15 (and better than
some....*cough*Norris*cough*...)

Boucher's "20,000 Years of Fashion" would be my favorite pic for a new
costumer. (The expanded 1987 edition, not the original 1966 edition.)  It
covers a broad range,  has over a thousand excellent and inspirational
pictures (several hundred in color), and presents a good, accurate
picture of costume in general. ISBN: 0810916932

New, it's $50; bookfinder.com has some copies for around $30.

Drea


On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Heather Meadows wrote:

>
> Janet Arnold's books,  Nancy Bradfield's (which I am forgetting the
> title of),
> Naorah Waugh Corsets and Crinolines.
>
>
> >
> > OK, here's a question for everybody--if you're giving
> > a book to a new costumer as a gift, what title (under
> > $15 or so) would you give?
> >
> > I just ran up against this because I wanted to get a
> > little "thank you" for my assistant on "Oz," and she's
> > a beginning costumer. I got her a copy of Kohler,
> > mostly because it's one of the first books I bought
> > for historical costuming, and I've used my copy a
> > bunch over the years.
> >
> > So what titles would you place on the list?
> >
> > Dawn
> >
> > =====
> > Dawn Jacobson
> > Vallejo, CA, USA
> >
> > Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 15:04:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJ4IHP014460
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:04:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJ2RUw013783
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:02:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJ2Pxr015111;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:02:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IJ2Mxr015060
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:02:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 12215 invoked by uid 1005); 18 Jun 2003 19:02:13 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.162341 secs); 18 Jun 2003 19:02:13 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.162341 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 19:02:12 -0000
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:02:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618110915.02e55818@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030618145537.D63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
> I found a copy online, but it is $100 for a used copy. I guess it will have
> to wait a bit before I can get it in my budget, or my hubby will be upset.
> I buy way too many books it seems.

Try interlibrary loan-ing it; you should probably be able to find a copy
in California.

I'm with you on the book buying problem...compulsive gamblers have NUTHIN'
on me.

Fortunately, my husband collects Big Guns and so has no way to berate me
for buying expensive things that I don't need. ;>

> I haven't been to Chicago since I was a child, but if anyone knows of
> museums with textiles around California, I wouldn't mind making the trip
> locally.

LACMA! The Los Angeles County Museum of Art. They have quite a few
renaissance items, and the Doris Stein Research Center, full of textile
resources & actual textiles.  They have actual 16th & 17th c. tailor's
pattern books, too. *sigh* one day I'll get out there...

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 15:23:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJMvHP014522
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:23:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJKcUw015968
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:20:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJKbEM028809;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:20:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJKXEM028771
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:20:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6])
	by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h5IJKX87017630
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:20:33 -0400
Message-Id: <200306181920.h5IJKX87017630@jefferson.patriot.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:17:06 -0000
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books
From: <aquazoo@patriot.net>
X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

     For the 18thC, we've just seen the publication of Mara Riley's _Whatever 
Shall I Wear_, a nice overall guidebook which I think is close to $15.

     I've also received a gift here and there of a less-than useful book.  
Unfortunately, most bookstores don't have the really good books, we special 
order them or we buy them in museum shops.

     Some museums will have exhibition catalogs that are not expensive, and 
some from past exhibits are marked down.  The Metropolitan Museum of Art is 
wonderful for that.  How about some postcards of favorite paintings?  You can 
buy some every time you visit a museum and give a stack of them as a gift.  If 
the recipient doesn't use them as a reference, they can use them as postcards. 
:-)  Sally Queen's historic costume calendars make great gifts.

     The more unusual the publication, the less likely the recipient will have 
it (even a long-time costumer).  Also you could have some fabric or trim in 
your stash that you'll never use, but would be useful for someone else's 
interests.

     -Carol


Drea Leed <drea@nospam> said:

> That's a problem--all of the really good "beginner" books (like the ones
> mentioned by Heather) are in the $25-$50 range. Anything below 15 will
> probably be OK, but not a "great intro". Kohler has some good patterns,
> and is as good a book as any you'll find under $15 (and better than
> some....*cough*Norris*cough*...)


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 15:24:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJOMHP014526
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:24:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJMMUw016128
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:22:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJMMEM029996;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:22:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IJMKEM029981
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:22:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 90068 invoked by uid 1005); 18 Jun 2003 19:22:10 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.13936 secs); 18 Jun 2003 19:22:10 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.13936 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 19:22:10 -0000
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:22:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colors per month...
In-Reply-To: <7D71B35B.403889A9.349D0FDF@cs.com>
Message-ID: <20030618152026.F63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Wow!  What was the manuscript, and from where?

I've seen similar "anecdotes" about clothing in Alessio's Book of Secretes
(1580s) and Wecker's "Secretes of Arts and Nature") (1640, translated from
a 16th c. German source.)  Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his
Contemporary goes into detail about symbolic color meaning; I'll bet they
reference similar type of books.

 Drea

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote:

> Hi-
>
> This weekend, I was reading a commonplace book manuscript which I found absolutely fascinating.  there was a page about apparel which included such tidbits as:
>
> Bulls go mad when they see red clothing
> Elephants do the same when they see white
>
> But what I thought was really cool was -
>
> Colors for each month
> January - White
> February - Ash Color
> etc.
>
> Have you seen anything like this before?  I believe this portion of the
manuscript dates during Elizabeth's late reign.
>
> Constance
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 15:24:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJOOHP014529
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:24:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJMZUw016194
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:22:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJMXEM000322;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:22:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJMTEM000131
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:22:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.a2.388ee790 (4394)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:22:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <a2.388ee790.2c2215e8@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:22:16 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance period
	silk shi...
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/18/2003 1:54:55 PM Central Standard Time, 
drea@nospam writes:

> Boucher's "20,000 Years of Fashion" would be my favorite pic for a new
> costumer. (The expanded 1987 edition, not the original 1966 edition.)  It
> covers a broad range,  has over a thousand excellent and inspirational
> pictures (several hundred in color), and presents a good, accurate
> picture of costume in general. ISBN: 0810916932
> 
> New, it's $50; bookfinder.com has some copies for around $30.
> 

<thread crashing>

I second 20,000 Years of Fashion..and it seems to be really easy to find in a 
lot of used book stores. I got mine for $19 at Half-Price books, and I've 
seen it at two other Half-Price bookstores. Half.com often has it for dirt cheap, 
too.
 </thread crashing>

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 15:41:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJfOHP014601
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:41:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJdXUw018099
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:39:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJdVEM013035;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:39:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IJdREM012975
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:39:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SimE-0006me-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:39:26 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:39:16 -0700
Message-ID: <003301c335d1$53c089f0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Male 'Frankish' headdress 8th century question. 
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Any idea's what a male Frank from the 8th century would wear on his
head?   This fellow is a duke in the SCA so I guess he needs to be able
to wear it under his coronet.would they do that?  He was thinking a
phrygian cap?  Way out of my time and space.thought I would ask you for
a quicky answer and then dig my books out..
 
He'd be wearing it with the Tunic (its almost done!) I am making him..I
have a little trim left over.  
 
http://www.saragrace.net/5A_tunic_tales.html
 
 
Just in case you are wondering, it is NOT a highly accurate garment..I
think cool is a little more important to him than historic accuracy..
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 16:08:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IK8pHP014680
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:08:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IK70Uw021237
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:07:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IK6vmY004172;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:06:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web.antekhou.com (adsl-66-136-30-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net
	[66.136.30.169])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IK6lmY004042
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:06:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from escom.antek [192.168.0.151] by web.antekhou.com
  (SMTPD32-8.00) id A655183027A; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:06:45 -0500
Received: From 74w0d01 ([65.45.18.250]) by escom.antek (WebShield SMTP v4.5
	MR1a);	id 1055966803816; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:06:43 -0500
Message-ID: <016f01c335d1$29692720$0764a8c0@algx>
From: "Cyn Bucheger" <cbucheger@paclp.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030618152026.F63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colors per month...
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:38:12 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I was just looking for an inspiration for an embroidery piece and I came
across this site for emblems, in particular, you might be interested in this
one...
http://www.mun.ca/alciato/e118.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drea Leed" <drea@nospam>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colors per month...


> Wow!  What was the manuscript, and from where?
>
> I've seen similar "anecdotes" about clothing in Alessio's Book of Secretes
> (1580s) and Wecker's "Secretes of Arts and Nature") (1640, translated from
> a 16th c. German source.)  Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his
> Contemporary goes into detail about symbolic color meaning; I'll bet they
> reference similar type of books.
>
>  Drea
>
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote:
>
> > Hi-
> >
> > This weekend, I was reading a commonplace book manuscript which I found
absolutely fascinating.  there was a page about apparel which included such
tidbits as:
> >
> > Bulls go mad when they see red clothing
> > Elephants do the same when they see white
> >
> > But what I thought was really cool was -
> >
> > Colors for each month
> > January - White
> > February - Ash Color
> > etc.
> >
> > Have you seen anything like this before?  I believe this portion of the
> manuscript dates during Elizabeth's late reign.
> >
> > Constance
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 16:38:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKcQHP014765
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:38:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKYbUw024641
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:34:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKYTmY026761;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:34:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKYJmY026540
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:34:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from laptop.ntlworld.com ([80.5.59.66]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com
	ESMTP
	<20030618203417.KEOB28183.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@laptop.ntlworld.com>
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:34:17 +0100
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030618212738.0186b348@pop.ntlworld.com>
X-Sender: lynneconnolly@pop.ntlworld.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:34:16 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Lynne Connolly <lynneconnolly@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance
  period silk shiny or not?)
In-Reply-To: <20030618144645.N63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
References: <6A98FB5A-A1B4-11D7-9FAC-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-421215B8;
	boundary="=======259E328D======="
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--=======259E328D=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-421215B8; charset=iso-8859-1;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At 14:53 18/06/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>That's a problem--all of the really good "beginner" books (like the ones
>mentioned by Heather) are in the $25-$50 range.

I think my favourite book in that price range is the Victoria and Albert=20
Museum's costume catalogue, "Four Hundred Years of Fashion." The last time=
=20
I looked it was =A315. You get pictures of all the costumes in the=20
Collection, and detailed descriptions of them, with a general overview of=20
the history of costume since 1500 (they have nothing in the Collection=20
before that). Some of the pictures are in glorious colour, others are small=
=20
black and white ones, but these are real costumes. I've dressed some of my=
=20
dolls from that book, the descriptions are so good! I even had a go at=20
Dior's New Look suit, but the tailoring on the jacket was a bit of a=20
challenge in 1/12th scale.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1851771166/002-8738749-7264806
Amazon says it's out of print, but I don't think it can be.

http://www.vandashop.co.uk/?f=3Ditemlist.php&c=3D65


Lynne Connolly, GSOLFOT
http://www.geocities.com/lynne_connolly2001/
Award winning historical romance
VANESSA  <http://www.awe-struck.net/AUTHORS28/vanessa.html>(Awe-Struck=
 books)

She saw the way his muscles separated as he fought, became distinct when he=
=20
put them to use. She'd felt them before, when he visited her at night, but=
=20
never seen them until this moment, had indeed, rarely seen a man in any=20
stage of nakedness. Only poor souls chained to the stocks, their shirts=20
torn from their bodies, or beggars who couldn't afford to cover themselves=
=20
properly.
This was different. This man belonged to her.


--=======259E328D=======
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--=======259E328D=======--

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 16:58:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKw7HP014845
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:58:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKuHUw027312
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:56:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKuFql013659;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:56:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f14.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.14])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IKuBql013543
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:56:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:56:06 -0700
Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:56:05 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121]
X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com]
From: "Jennifer Sena" <distantdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Am I Period or Not?
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:56:05 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <BAY7-F14W9aRwHa6BPT000215a1@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2003 20:56:06.0063 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[093DD3F0:01C335DC]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I must have missed this post originally.  I've been wondering what the to-do 
was about.  Could someone send it privately so I can see the stunning-ness?



Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!



>Well, that site is a lot of fun! The nasty comments should be tossed, and
>some of the comments are just plain funny. But I agree they do show the 
>lack
>of a common idea about what really is period! It was fun to look at so many
>different outfits, some of them really stunning.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 17:13:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILDVHP014928
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:13:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILBYUw029155
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:11:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILBXql025733;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:11:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILBUql025665
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:11:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.173.1bf62c89 (15888)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-m16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.132]) by
	air-id08.mx.aol.com (v94.29) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-3e103ef0d574372; Wed, 18
	Jun 2003 17:11:17 -0400
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:16 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colors per month...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <5B7E3EA0.4A4BD40A.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm pretty sure this is a none-too-often referenced manuscript, it's tucked away at the Newberry.  It's got all of these fascinating "persona development" kinds of things - the late 16th century (man, I'm assuming) person's understanding of math, science, history.

I am going to check into doing a transcription, it's very cool.

Constance


Drea Leed <drea@nospam> wrote:

>Wow!  What was the manuscript, and from where?
>
>I've seen similar "anecdotes" about clothing in Alessio's Book of Secretes
>(1580s) and Wecker's "Secretes of Arts and Nature") (1640, translated from
>a 16th c. German source.)  Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his
>Contemporary goes into detail about symbolic color meaning; I'll bet they
>reference similar type of books.
>
> Drea
>
>On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 ConstanceFairfax@cs.com wrote:
>
>> Hi-
>>
>> This weekend, I was reading a commonplace book manuscript which I found absolutely fascinating.  there was a page about apparel which included such tidbits as:
>>
>> Bulls go mad when they see red clothing
>> Elephants do the same when they see white
>>
>> But what I thought was really cool was -
>>
>> Colors for each month
>> January - White
>> February - Ash Color
>> etc.
>>
>> Have you seen anything like this before?  I believe this portion of the
>manuscript dates during Elizabeth's late reign.
>>
>> Constance
>> _______________________________________________
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 17:26:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILQmHP014986
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:26:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILOwUw000891
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:24:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILOtql006403;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:24:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f117.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.117])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ILOpql006297
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:24:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:24:46 -0700
Received: from 12.231.218.121 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:24:45 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121]
X-Originating-Email: [distantdesigns@hotmail.com]
From: "Jennifer Sena" <distantdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Icky Purple (was Statutes...)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:24:45 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <BAY7-F117yYmbsskpHE000240b1@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2003 21:24:46.0356 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[0A9DB540:01C335E0]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>Do you live where it gets cold enough for a cape/cloak/coat thingie?  Or is 
>the front plastic-y too?  Otherwise... A really REALLY ritzy tent roof?  A 
>reclining-sofa shaped beanbag chair?  Boat seatcovers... I dunno I think 
>the heat is getting to me
>
>Edwinna

It's a smokey heather medium shade of purple, it's got some treatment on the 
back but not the heavy drape stuff and not rubber.  The weight is kind of 
medium too.  It's not horrible, but I've heard so many comments about how 
fake someone's velvet looked that I'm afraid to wear this.  I haven't used 
velvets much but even I can tell this is a blend at best.

Jen


>>Speaking of purple, what does one do with a very dissappointing purple 
>>velvet?  I haven't whacked off a piece and tried to wash the stiff 
>>scratchyness off the back yet, but it looked much less plasti-shiny in the 
>>pictures.  I'm not limiting the ideas to actual clothing.  I'm just trying 
>>to think of something to do with it if it's completely not wearable.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jennifer Sena
>>Distant Designs
>>http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi
>>
>>I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>h-costume mailing list
>>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 18:04:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM4cHP015140
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:04:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM2hUw005142
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:02:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM2e5x015050;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:02:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM2Y5x014997
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:02:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-67-121-126-152.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net
	[67.121.126.152])h5IM2UbC012004
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:02:31 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20030618143504.04c4b210@mail.frys.com>
X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:58:43 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Origins of the graduation robe
In-Reply-To: <00ec01c334f6$e53ee790$3b457a43@angelap3a8d978>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


>Does anyone here on the list know the origins of the cap and gown?  My
>daughter just graduated hs and she asked me how old they were.  I thought
>something like 12C Europe, but didn't really have a clue?  If you don't know
>offhand, do have a good online source for the info? I did a quick google and
>didn't get very far, but I'm swamped right now and not at the computer much.

Using nothing but historical images to base my opinion on, I'd say that the 
idea of a gown originated from what Medieval scholars wore for everyday 
clothes.  There are some contemporary images of 15th century students at a 
university in the 1950s Time/Life book "Life's Picture History of Western 
Man", showing robes on the (all male) students.

But if you look at a painting of Thomas More or Erasmus (contemporary with 
Henry VIII), you can see a robe that looks very similar to a modern 
graduation robe, and a square-topped cap to go with it.  IMHO, that's the 
place where graduation robes, and judges robes, fossilized, and that's the 
model we use today.  The robe is called a Shaube, in German, and has a yoke 
with the back gathered into it.  It also has a large flat collar in some 
examples.  The sleeves vary in shape, but they are all big.  (I'm finishing 
up my Harry Potter academic robe for the book release Friday at midnight, 
and they look a lot like what Americans think of as graduation robes.

The father of one of the kids I babysit is a tenured math professor at one 
of the California State Universities, and has a PhD.  He recently was 
required to buy an academic robe for formal occasions, and he let me 
examine the (several hundred dollar) thing when it arrived.  Mathematics 
ones are standardized, he said, and are required to be made of some really 
sleazy silver-grey polyester.  He said other departments had different ones 
which, in his opinion, looked nicer.  His looked like somebody's made-up 
idea of Medieval, and wasn't clearly identifiable to any period I know.  A 
vestigial hood had turned into a separate piece that hung down the back to 
maybe knee length, and was trimmed with not-very-good tomato-red velveteen.

        CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
          www.FunStuft.com

              //// \\\
             ////-@@\\\
            ((((   7 )))
             (((  <> ))))
                )   ((((((
           /----\   /---\))

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 18:05:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM5gHP015146
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:05:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM3oUw005248
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:03:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM3m5x015760;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:03:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.122])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IM2l5x015137
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:02:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Sl0w-00000n-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:02:47 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:02:36 -0700
Message-ID: <007001c335e5$5a212390$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <20030618145537.D63988-100000@shell.siscom.net>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Guns, books, and fabric:Was Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~Fortunately, my husband collects Big Guns and so has no way to berate
me
~for buying expensive things that I don't need. ;>
~
[Sg:] LOL!  One more thing we have in common.  My husband also buys lots
of guns!  He is also lately been buying heavy duty metal working
machines....I see lots of books and fabric in my future....:)

It really does work out well, he doesn't blink an eye at all my books
and fabrics...:)

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 18:29:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMTdHP015243
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:29:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMRoUw008580
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:27:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMRk5x004697;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:27:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta07bw.bigpond.com (mta07bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.134])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMRb5x004418
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:27:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.72]) by mta07bw.email.bigpond.com
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with SMTP id <0HGP00MN67PR64@mta07bw.email.bigpond.com> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:27:28 +1000 (EST)
Received: from 144.139.221.8 ([144.139.221.8])
 by bwmam02.bigpond.com(MAM $Name: REL_3_3_2b $ 11/8625380); Thu,
 19 Jun 2003 08:27:22 +0000
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 03:26:09 +1000
From: Claire Clarke <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel  Re: Am I period or not?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <00d901c38b65$caab2f40$08dd8b90@clarke>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030617212755.02f4ee30@mail.broadviewnet.net>
 <001001c33552$5be48840$601177d8@pavilion>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Purple and Statutes of Apparel Re: Am I period or not?


> Not having a ren-faire background, I've come across this "purple" issue a
> few times.  Seems those "in the know" dispute the "only royals wear
purple"
> which I haven't heard yet.  For the record, the proclamation (or statues -
> I'll still working out the difference) issued under Elizabeth in 1574
states
> "None shall wear in his apparel any silk of the color of purple, cloth of
> gold tissued, nor fur of sables, but only the King, Queen, King's mother,
> children, brethren, and sisters, uncles and aunts; and except dukes,
> marquises, and hearls, who may wear the same in doublets, jerkins, linings
> of cloaks, gowns, and hose; and those of the Garter, purple in mantles
> only:"
>
> So both these views have a half truth to them, it's not purple in general
> for royals, but purple silk.  Also depends on the year, but I think under
> Henry there was a similar rule, but I'd have to check.
>
>
And don't forget all those dukes, marquises and earls, which covers a
fairish amount of the nobility, who it seems could also wear purple....
Claire (what about duchesses, marquesses, and countesses then?)

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 18:30:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMUbHP015253
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:30:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMSnUw008737
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:28:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMSk5x005690;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:28:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta07bw.bigpond.com (mta07bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.134])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMSd5x005492
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:28:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.72]) by mta07bw.email.bigpond.com
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with SMTP id <0HGP00KSM7RHYT@mta07bw.email.bigpond.com> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:28:30 +1000 (EST)
Received: from 144.139.221.8 ([144.139.221.8])
 by bwmam02.bigpond.com(MAM $Name: REL_3_3_2b $ 11/8626549); Thu,
 19 Jun 2003 08:28:24 +0000
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 03:27:12 +1000
From: Claire Clarke <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet
 oris the ...
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <00dd01c38b65$efcaa9e0$08dd8b90@clarke>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
References: <12.322d5e49.2c210b4e@aol.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <IceGirlNIN@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet
oris the ...


>>>
> *chants* I will not have another costume on my to-do list.  I already have
> four, that's enough.  I will not put another costume on my to-do list.  No
> matter how nice I look in dark green.  I will not...
> Dagnabbit Dawn...
>
>
Only four? You just aren't trying hard enough.
*grin*
Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 18:37:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMb3HP015294
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:37:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMZEUw009631
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:35:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMZC5x010429;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:35:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta06bw.bigpond.com (mta06bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.96])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMZ75x010314
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:35:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.72]) by mta06bw.bigpond.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55)
          with SMTP id HGP82900.DAY for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun
          2003 08:34:57 +1000 
Received: from 144.139.221.8 ([144.139.221.8]) by bwmam02.bigpond.com(MAM
	$Name: REL_3_3_2b $ 11/8634415); 19 Jun 2003 08:34:52
Message-ID: <00e501c38b66$d6df0150$08dd8b90@clarke>
From: "Claire Clarke" <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <6A98FB5A-A1B4-11D7-9FAC-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance
	periodsilk shiny or not?)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 03:33:39 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather Meadows" <alice@wonderland.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance
periodsilk shiny or not?)


>
> Janet Arnold's books,  Nancy Bradfield's (which I am forgetting the
> title of),
> Naorah Waugh Corsets and Crinolines.
>
>
> >
Yes, but they're not really cheap - especially if you don't live on the same
continent as an Amazon distributor. For mediaeval periods I'm rather fond of
Mary Houston's book, which you can get as a Dover reprint for very cheap. If
you don't pay much attention to the text it has lots of really great pics
redrawn from
manuscripts, brasses etc. There are issues with redrawing, I know, and most
of
the mid-late 15th century stuff is not much good, but it's a great source
for the
13th century.
Also, and I don't know how cheap these are, or that they're even still in
print,
but the Cunnington's series of books are good for the same period. These
have a much better coverage of the 15th century. Similarly, they have
manuscript and other
source redrawings, but this time attributed.
Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 18:40:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMe9HP015308
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:40:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMcMUw009913
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:38:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMcL5x012399;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:38:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com
	[66.96.128.118])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IMcG5x012296
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:38:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 1677 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 22:30:08 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO costumepress.com) (67.31.141.101)
  by www19.fatcow.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 22:30:08 -0000
Message-ID: <3EF0E9CA.4DA5B5BE@costumepress.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:38:02 -0600
From: Mary Denise Smith <editor@costumepress.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Guns, books, and fabric
References: <007001c335e5$5a212390$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Funny how that works . . .

MD/Marged
whose gunsmith/knifemaker husband often benefits from her book and
fabric buying impulses

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
>  My husband also buys lots of guns!  He is also lately been buying heavy duty metal working machines....I see lots of books and fabric in my future....:)
> 
> It really does work out well, he doesn't blink an eye at all my books and fabrics...:)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 18:59:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMxmHP015350
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:59:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMt1W0011254
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:58:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IMer5x014061;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:40:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net
	(smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5IMem5x013997
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:40:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 16086 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 22:40:46 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.166.66.205)
  by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 22:40:46 -0000
Message-ID: <019601c335ea$a9b24d80$cd42a6d0@castlebooks>
From: "Janet Davis" <castle@erie.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <6A98FB5A-A1B4-11D7-9FAC-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
	<5.2.0.9.0.20030618212738.0186b348@pop.ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance  period
	silk shiny or not?)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:40:47 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I think my favourite book in that price range is the Victoria and Albert
Museum's costume catalogue, "Four Hundred Years of Fashion." The last time
I looked it was £15. You get pictures of all the costumes in the
Collection, and detailed descriptions of them, with a general overview of
the history of costume since 1500 (they have nothing in the Collection
before that). Some of the pictures are in glorious colour, others are small
black and white ones, but these are real costumes. I've dressed some of my
dolls from that book, the descriptions are so good! I even had a go at
Dior's New Look suit, but the tailoring on the jacket was a bit of a
challenge in 1/12th scale.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1851771166/002-8738749-7264806
Amazon says it's out of print, but I don't think it can be.

The V & A web site calls it a reissue with a new cover.  If Amazon doesn't
have it yet, copies may not yet be available in America yet.  (This can
often take several months with British publishers.)

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 19:13:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INDcHP015387
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:13:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INBmUw013116
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INBk8g004231;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe47.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.19])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INBf8g004153
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:11:36 -0700
Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe47.law8.hotmail.com with DAV;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:11:35 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91]
X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com]
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin2@hotmail.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <009501c335b5$491261c0$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Helpful Information
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:11:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <Law8-OE47gbLYluLCTa00010659@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2003 23:11:36.0142 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[F7256EE0:01C335EE]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Or you can simply write your email in an image, and put the image up on the
website :-) Of course, when people click on it, it doesn't pop up a message
composition box, but in my case, since I receive maybe 2 comments a year,
the major advantage of having no robot crawl away with my address easily
outweighs the disadvantage of people having to type in my address
themselves...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Penny Ladnier" <penny@costumegallery.com>
To: "h-costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:18 PM
Subject: [h-cost] OT: Helpful Information


> I ran across some information last week on a tech list.  I wanted to pass
it
> along to you all because so many h-costumer have websites .  It is a study
> on how spammers get your email address,
> http://www.cdt.org/speech/spam/030319spamreport.shtml
>
> After reading the study, you can easily use keystrokes to encode your
email
> address by going to this website,
http://www.wbwip.com/wbw/emailencoder.html
> .  All you need to do is write your email address and click on encode.
> Since spammers heavily harvest from messageboards, I suggest you keystroke
> encode your email address there too.
>
> Now, I have been encoding our email addresses for a week on our new
> webpages.  Instead of writing mailto: youremail@address.com , write
mailto:
> the numbers from the encoding website.  When you write the tag do like
this:
>
> <B><FONT FACE="Arial" COLOR="#890707">Questions??? email: </B></FONT><A
>
HREF="mailto:&#102;&#097;&#115;&#104;&#105;&#111;&#110;&#115;&#049;&#057;&#0
>
48;&#049;&#064;&#099;&#111;&#115;&#116;&#117;&#109;&#101;&#103;&#097;&#108;&
> #108;&#101;&#114;&#121;&#046;&#099;&#111;&#109;"><B><FONT FACE="Arial"
> COLOR="#800000">HERE</B></FONT></A></p>
>
> Make sure to put the visual like as something besides your address or the
> spammers will get it.  In the example, I used the word *HERE*.  When
people
> click on the word *HERE* their email software will pop up but in the
> sender's name is your regular email address.  I tested and proved this
one,
> they don't see all the numbers.
>
> Please feel free to pass this message along to friends.  The more people
who
> can stop these people from spamming us the better.
>
> Penny Ladnier (who is sick of getting 300 spams a day)
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> www.costumegallery.com
> www.costumeclassroom.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 19:40:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INe7HP015443
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:40:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INcLUw015440
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:38:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INcJ8g019635;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:38:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5INcH8g019555
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:38:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1d6.c01d174 (4340)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:38:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <1d6.c01d174.2c2251de@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:38:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet
	oris the ...
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/18/03 6:34:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com writes:

> >
> Only four? You just aren't trying hard enough.
> *grin*
> Claire
> 

Well, I posted my "list" somewhere.  But the four are just the costumes.  I 
have drapery!  Dresses!  I HAVE TO HEM MY FATHER'S PANTS!
I'm okay.  Really.  Thing is, I'm going to college in August.  And my parents 
are demanding that I leave the sewing machine at home.  Yeah, right.  As if I 
could last an entire first semester without it.

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 20:52:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0qhHP015595
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:52:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0oxUw021321
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:50:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0or2l026615;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:50:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0oo2l026552
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:50:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jessica.webwarren.com (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net
	[68.36.17.255])	(authenticated (0 bits))
	by webwarren.com (8.12.8/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5J0ofX3001284
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:50:44 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618204908.0811cd18@mail.earthlink.net>
X-Sender: arachne@pop.webwarren.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:50:20 -0400
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Brenda <webwarren@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Am I Period or Not?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Gail Finke <gailscott@eos.net> wrote:

>I had to laugh about the site address, after it was kindly posted for me. I
>saw that it was evident all the time -- but I had looked at it as some sort
>of foreign word (amiperiodornot), maybe the name of a gemstone or something,
>during my hasty scan.

Yup! For some reason, I keep seeing the "period-or-not" as something 
related to "peridot"...


Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 20:57:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0vGHP015606
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:57:16 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0tXUw021659
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:55:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0tWab028838;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:55:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.126])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0tTab028806
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:55:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-003-068.jps.net ([216.119.3.68] helo=pavilion)
	by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Sni4-0001tS-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:55:28 -0700
Message-ID: <002401c335ff$96320920$440377d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030618141134.79509.qmail@web60002.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet source - details
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:10:32 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thank you very much Rachel.    One can always hope!

Lisa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel" <rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "H-costume list" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:11 AM
Subject: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet source - details


> Sorry for the late response, I didn't have the details of my source at
home.  The company is
> called Humphries Weaving Company.  They display the following contact
information:
>
> The Humphries Weaving Company Ltd., DeVere Mill, Queen Street, Castle
Hedingham, Halstead, Essex,
> CO9 3HA, UK
> Website: http://freespace.virgin.net/humphries.weaving/
>
> Tel      +44 (0) 1787 461193
> Fax     +44 (0) 1787 462701
> E-mail  sales@humphriesweaving.co.uk
>
> London Showroom - Alton Brooke Ltd., Chelsea Harbour
> Tel      +44 (0) 20 7376 7008
> Fax     +44 (0) 20 7376 7009
> email abrooke@compuserve.com
> USA Showroom - Classic Revivals Inc., Boston
> Tel      +1 (617) 574 9030
> Fax     +1 (617) 574 9027
> www.classicrevivals.com
>
> So if you are feeling flushed with cash then these are the people to
contact.
>
> Rachel
>
> =====
> Threads of History
> www.threadsofhistory.co.uk
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 21:11:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1BfHP015664
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:11:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J19sUw022786
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:09:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J19rab006143;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:09:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.126])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J19pab006132
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:09:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-003-068.jps.net ([216.119.3.68] helo=pavilion)
	by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Snvy-00000J-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:09:51 -0700
Message-ID: <005e01c33601$98618160$440377d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <a2.388ee790.2c2215e8@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance
	periodsilk shi...
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:24:55 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I third that and add this book is also published under the title "A History
of Costume in the West"  - "20,000 Years of Fashion" is the USA title.
Nearly bought it twice!

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: <LoreleiMorte@aol.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance
periodsilk shi...


> In a message dated 6/18/2003 1:54:55 PM Central Standard Time,
> drea@nospam writes:
>
> > Boucher's "20,000 Years of Fashion" would be my favorite pic for a new
> > costumer. (The expanded 1987 edition, not the original 1966 edition.)
It
> > covers a broad range,  has over a thousand excellent and inspirational
> > pictures (several hundred in color), and presents a good, accurate
> > picture of costume in general. ISBN: 0810916932
> >
> > New, it's $50; bookfinder.com has some copies for around $30.
> >
>
> <thread crashing>
>
> I second 20,000 Years of Fashion..and it seems to be really easy to find
in a
> lot of used book stores. I got mine for $19 at Half-Price books, and I've
> seen it at two other Half-Price bookstores. Half.com often has it for dirt
cheap,
> too.
>  </thread crashing>
>
> -Sarra Wryght
> Elizabethan Dress Journals:
http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
> Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 21:30:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1UXHP015694
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:30:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1SoUw024025
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:28:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1Smab014747;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:28:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1Sjab014726
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:28:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gti.net (morr0663.gti.net [208.216.122.63])
	by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 48F3C358F2
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:28:44 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EF111D1.F8AF7545@gti.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:28:49 -0400
From: martyr@gti.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet source - details
References: <20030618141134.79509.qmail@web60002.mail.yahoo.com>
	<002401c335ff$96320920$440377d8@pavilion>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On the topic of silk velvet, there is some "100% silk velvet" on eBay right
now,
6 yds. Since "silk velvet" can also be the silk/rayon blend it's possibly
the blend.
Deb R.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2539313840&category=2222


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 21:58:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1wPHP015766
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:58:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0IaUw018644
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:18:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0IZ2l010825;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:18:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J0IP2m010761
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:18:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5J0IfHe023923
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:18:42 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5J0IdWa023921
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:18:39 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Am I Period or Not?
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:18:39 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <BAY7-F14W9aRwHa6BPT000215a1@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <BAY7-F14W9aRwHa6BPT000215a1@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306182018.39336.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5J0IP2m010761
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Wednesday 18 June 2003 04:56 pm, Jennifer Sena wrote:
> I must have missed this post originally.  I've been wondering what the
> to-do was about.  Could someone send it privately so I can see the
> stunning-ness?

www.amiperiodornot.com

-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 21:59:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1xtHP015770
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:59:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1w7Uw026089
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:58:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1w4QI027854;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:58:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J1w2QI027788
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:58:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246])
	by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.9/8.11.4) with SMTP id h5J1vn2f013721
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:57:51 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <028a01c33606$3d5fd460$5ea810ac@Kate>
From: "Kate Pinner" <pinner@mccc.edu>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<20030618141134.79509.qmail@web60002.mail.yahoo.com><002401c335ff$96320920$440377d8@pavilion>
	<3EF111D1.F8AF7545@gti.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:58:11 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] Ebay lace question
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Speaking of Ebay -- What period would these laces be useful for? Victorian
would be one; any other?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2329593067&category=31729&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2329592985&category=31729&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2329593152&category=31729&rd=1

Kate

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <martyr@gti.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet source - details


> On the topic of silk velvet, there is some "100% silk velvet" on eBay
right
> now,
> 6 yds. Since "silk velvet" can also be the silk/rayon blend it's possibly
> the blend.
> Deb R.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2539313840&category=2222
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 22:24:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2OfHP015813
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:24:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2MvUw028183
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:22:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2MtQI010819;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:22:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5J2MrQI010796
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:22:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 32291 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2003 03:00:53 -0000
Received: from 66-44-102-64.s64.apx2.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO
	oldwaylane.net) (66.44.102.64)
	by shada.com with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 03:00:53 -0000
Message-ID: <3EF11E3B.9090700@oldwaylane.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:21:47 -0400
From: Judy Mitchell <judymitch@oldwaylane.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Guns, books, and fabric
References: <007001c335e5$5a212390$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<3EF0E9CA.4DA5B5BE@costumepress.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EF0E9CA.4DA5B5BE@costumepress.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Mary Denise Smith wrote:
> Funny how that works . . .
> 
> MD/Marged
> whose gunsmith/knifemaker husband often benefits from her book and
> fabric buying impulses
> 
> Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
>> My husband also buys lots of guns!  He is also lately been buying heavy duty metal working machines....I see lots of books and fabric in my future....:)

	I did a bad thing and introduced my husband to ebay! He's 
been having fun buying computer bits and old motherboards. 
He's just bought 2 - when I asked him what he was going to 
do with them, he admitted he wasn't sure, but they might be 
useful. I laughed and explained that the correct answer was 
"it's for my fabric stash!" So he has no complaints about 
the shopping *I've* been doing on ebay!
	-Judy Mitchell

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 22:31:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2VBHP015836
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:31:11 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2TQUw028547
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:29:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2TPQI013603;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:29:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.85])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2TMQI013551
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:29:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:29:16 -0700
Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe28.law8.hotmail.com with DAV;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:29:16 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91]
X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com]
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin2@hotmail.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <a2.388ee790.2c2215e8@aol.com>
	<005e01c33601$98618160$440377d8@pavilion>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was:
	Renaissanceperiodsilk shi...
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:29:22 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <Law8-OE28VGbAMePmQG00010725@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jun 2003 02:29:16.0955 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[94BDDEB0:01C3360A]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

That's the French title: Histoire du Costume en Occident. (probably the
original title, too, since François Boucher is a French name)
They might have translated the title differently depending on the country?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good gift books for beginners (was:
Renaissanceperiodsilk shi...


> I third that and add this book is also published under the title "A
History
> of Costume in the West"  - "20,000 Years of Fashion" is the USA title.
> Nearly bought it twice!
>
> Lisa
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 22:42:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2gLHP015856
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:42:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2eUUw029441
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:40:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2eTQI019613;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:40:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J2eRQI019593
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:40:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by keaton.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGP008SYJFD0S@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:40:26 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:29:08 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Velvet source - details
In-reply-to: <3EF111D1.F8AF7545@gti.net>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618192630.02e5d600@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <20030618141134.79509.qmail@web60002.mail.yahoo.com>
 <002401c335ff$96320920$440377d8@pavilion>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 09:28 PM 6/18/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>On the topic of silk velvet, there is some "100% silk velvet" on eBay right
>now,
>6 yds. Since "silk velvet" can also be the silk/rayon blend it's possibly
>the blend.
>Deb R.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2539313840&category=2222

At the starting price they are asking for ($120 for 6 yards), on what may 
be a blend and undyed to boot... I can find that at Dharma trading for 
around $17-19 depending on how many yards I want. And I know of at least 
one retail store in the LA Garment district that has it available for $19 a 
yard, dyed.

Now if it really was 100% silk, both backing and pile, then that would be 
worth it.

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 23:11:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J3BkHP015918
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:11:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J39rUw001468
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:09:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J39pu6002672;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:09:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J39mu7002637
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:09:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dandy.net (acty3039.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.39])
	by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5J3APR3020124
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:10:26 -0400
Message-ID: <3EF12903.9080702@dandy.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:07:47 -0400
From: michael tartaglio <mikes@dandy.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
References: 
	<129.2c60ee7c.2c1fff2e@aol.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030617135457.028471d0@127.0.0.1><01ca01c3351a$06abcc90$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP><200306180024.23325.cathy@thyrsus.com>
	<025101c3359c$ec0840c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
	<009f01c3359c$38aae500$0764a8c0@algx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi, All. Those are indeed faceted glass beads and have been found on 
many archaelogical sites in both Europe and the New World. The style (in 
varying forms) lasted until at least the 1st Qtr. of the 17th Cent. They 
are commonly considered to be the product of the Murano glassworks in 
Venice.  I think there may have been examples taken from the Gnalic 
wreck circa 1583. This wreck also included 8 wool berets, three linen 
shirts and the only known existing full bolt of silk damask from the 
16th Cent., probably from Lucca. I'll try and find thr URL for the 
museum in Yugoslavia that has the artifacts, and report back. Cheers, 
Mike T.

Cyn Bucheger wrote:

>>However, there is another issue. This is the necklace she is trying to
>>recreate. it is Durer's Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman:
>>http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer35.html
>>She was planning on casting the double cone shaped pieces because they
>>    
>>
>look
>  
>
>>like some sort of dark metal in her book. However, I have seen pictures
>>where they look decidedly green like a glass or gemstone bead. Has anyone
>>seen this piece in person or a true to color representation that might be
>>able to shed some light on this? She is trying to make it as authentic as
>>possible.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>I've made this necklace, and in every copy of it (I have several since Durer
>is one of my favorite artists) that I have seen the cone shape beads appear
>to be black glass, which is what I used.  It looks "right", if that helps
>any
>
>Cyn
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 18 23:28:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J3S1HP015944
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:28:01 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J3QIUw002698
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:26:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J3QGu6009783;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:26:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
	[66.163.168.188])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5J3QEu6009766
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:26:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adsl-67-122-68-56.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978)
	(angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@67.122.68.56 with login)
	by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP;
	19 Jun 2003 03:26:13 -0000
Message-ID: <007801c33612$d1294580$38447a43@angelap3a8d978>
From: "Angela F. Lazear" <angelalazear@sbcglobal.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:28:13 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Fw: Costumer Burnout survey-Theater Costumers please respond
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The following is a survey for an article in Stage Directions Magazine.  Any
of you who have the time to respond to Christine, please do so, she's hoping
for 100 responses.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
"Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great,
some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust
upon them."
Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare


> Hi Angela,
>
> It was great to speak with you this week. It's been a bit challenging to
get
> some survey/statistical information so I've come up with a questionnaire
based
> on the interviews I've done with people so far. Could you please take a
> moment to fill it out and please pass it along to your costumer friends.
I'm hoping
> to get a decent response, maybe 100 replies. I'm setting June 27 as my
> deadline for this. The survey was done in the spirit of fun as well so
hopefully
> you'll get a laugh or two from reading this.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Christine
>
>
>
> 1) What % of the time are you stressed about your job as a costumer?
>
> a) less than 10%--My job is a breeze most of the time.
>
> b) 30-40%--Yes, work gets stressful but it's nothing I can't handle.
>
> c) 50%-75%--Can I have a cup of coffee with a side order of stress?
>
> d) 90% -100%--Yikes, stress really consumes me.
>
>
> 2) My biggest stressors are:
>     (You can indicate more than one)
>
> a) Diva behavior from actors, directors and others
> b) Too many projects at once--I can't say no.
> c) Unrealistic expectations from directors/other theater staff
> d) Not enough staff to support the project
> e) Other
>
> 3) I release stress by:
>
> a) sewing or other handicraft
> b) exercise
> c) taking a trip
> d) yelling at everyone around me
> e) other
>
> 4) I find (fill in the blank with an activity)  helpful to relax because:
>
> a) it takes my mind off my work
> b) it gives me a feeling of artistic accomplishment without the stress of
> working with others
> c) it's just a fun diversion
> d) it beats throwing darts at someone's picture
> e) other
>
> 5) If I could choose my profession again, I'd still be a costumer:
>
> a) yes
> b) no
> c) unsure--Could I outfit Brad Pitt?
>
> 6) The most rewarding thing about my work is:
>
> a) knowing I did a great job
> b) hearing the audience applause and knowing I contributed to that
> c) the acknowledgement of my crew
> d) it makes my mother happy
> e) other
>
> 7) If I knew then what I know know I'd...
>
> Please fill in the blank
>
> 8) Preventing costumer burnout is:
>
> a) a matter of pacing yourself, like you're doing a dance
> b) easy if you just choosing projects you're passionate about and devoting
> yourself to them
> c) possible if you have some artistic projects outside of your work that
help
> you grow as a professional
> d) impossible in this fast-paced unpredictable business
> e) other
>
> 9) Generally, what time of the year is most stressful for you?
>
>
> a) winter
> b) summer
> c)spring
> d) fall
> e) other
>
> 10) Anything you would like to add that has helped you deal with stress as
a
> costumer.
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 00:01:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J41HHP016001
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:01:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J3xJUw004798
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:59:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J3xGfl024765;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:59:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J3xBfm024737
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:59:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5J3xVHe024517
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:59:31 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5J3xVdq024515
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:59:31 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance period
	silk shiny or not?)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:59:30 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <20030618173533.88649.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030618173533.88649.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306182359.30911.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5J3xBfm024737
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Wednesday 18 June 2003 01:35 pm, Dawn Jacobson wrote:

> OK, here's a question for everybody--if you're giving
> a book to a new costumer as a gift, what title (under
> $15 or so) would you give?

The tough part is the "under $15 or so".  There are a number of books I'd be 
willing to give a beginner, but they mostly start in the $20-$25 range.  The 
only under $15's I know of are Dover books.  The Dover books tend to be older 
works, most of which are based on dubious scholarship in my opinion.

The answer also depends on whether you want the gift to be:

1) a good general history of costume;
2) a good reference "how-to" for historical costuming, or;
3) a good survey that focuses on a particular period/s.

I assumed from the phrasing of your request that you were thinking of 
something in category 1), but I'll try to give examples of all three anyway.

Category 1):  Ironically, the book I'd pick in this category (of the ones no 
one has recommended yet) is one I've read but don't own:  Milla Davenport's 
The Book of Costume (Crown Publishers Inc. New York 1976)  ISBN 0517037165.  
Abebooks currently has a one-volume edition for about $80.  (I read the older 
2-vol edition).  However, it may be possible to find a cheaper copy by 
shopping around.

I like Davenport for this purpose because her illustrations are all from 
period art, so any biases reflected in the artwork are at least period 
biases.  Sadly, they are all black and white photos of varying (often 
mediocre) qualities, but there is a sufficient variety of them (including 
some of works that are not commonly reproduced elsewhere) to whet the 
appetite.

Category 2):  Frances Grimble, After a Fashion:  How to Reproduce, Restore, 
and Wear Vintage Styles.  (Lavolta Press, 1998)  ISBN  0-9636517-3-0.  Fran's 
book has a little of everything, from practical advice about sewing, cutting, 
and fabric selection to a mini-history of costume from the Middle Ages to the 
early 20th century--and her line drawings of period styles are clear and 
accurate.

I got my copy as a present, but I believe it runs about $35.00 new for the 
current edition.

Category 3):  There's more options here--including options in the price range 
you mention.  However, all of these books cover only a limited historical 
range.  I'll list some of my favorites, sticking to the ones that cover 
fairly broad periods.

Francis M. Kelly and Randolph Schwabe, A Short History of Costume and Armour.  
(Dover, 2002).  

Reprint of an early 1930's 2-volume work that covers from 1066 to 1800.  Its 
strengths include:  1)  in many cases the authors have the sense to tell you 
when they're speculating; 2) at least half the illustrations are of period 
art (and the rest are rather good line drawings based on period art, 
including sculpture).  Dover prices this at $14.95.  Of all the Dover costume 
books I've bought over the years, I think this one is probably the most 
useful and the least victimized by limited information and inadequate 
scholarship.

Mary G. Houston.  She did at least three books covering different periods.

	*  Ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian & Persian Costume
		Dover Publications 1954. ISBN 0-486-42562-2. I don't know if this is in 		
print right now, but Abebooks has at least one copy for $9.00.

	*  Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume 
 		Dover Publications 2003 ISBN: 0486426106 Powells has this for $13.95, which 
is in the typical range for new Dover stuff.

	*	Medieval Costume in England and France 
	Dover Publications 1996 ISBN 0-486-29060-3  My copy was $8.95 new.  

Houston sometimes makes silly conjectures about things, but she usually gives 
provenances for the art she's talking about, and describes it clearly enough 
that it's often possible to draw your own conclusions.  Her illustrations are 
clear black and white drawings and B&W photographs, but her line drawings are 
true to the original.

My copies of the first two are hardcover from the original pre-Dover editions; 
the Medieval one is a Dover paperback.  If you go for hardcover used, they 
are fairly easy to find on line and run about $35-45 depending on condition.

C. Willett Cunnington & Phillis Cunnington, Handbook of Medieval Costume 
(PLAYS, Inc. 1969). 

Covers from 800 C.E. to 1500 C.E.  Illustrations are good B&W redrawings of 
period art.  Provenances for illustrations appear as endnotes.  (This is one 
of the very first costume books I ever read, in case anyone cares.)  I got my 
hardback copy used for something like $25.

Nancy Bradfield.  (Somebody mentioned her stuff but didn't have the titles 
handy).  There are two of these that I know of:

	*	Historical Costumes of England. (Quite Specific Media/Costume & Fashion 
Press 1997)  ISBN 0-89676-218-1.  Some black and white photos of period art, 
and line drawings.  Covers roughly from 1066 to 1970.  I got it new in 
paperback at $29.95; I don't know if it's still in print.

	*	Costume in Detail:  1730-1930 (Quite Specific Media/Costume & Fashion Press 
1997).  The magic of this book is that the author's line drawings are done 
from actual, surviving costumes, whose owners are identified; many are too 
fragile for public display.  Again all black and white illustrations, but 
detailed descriptions of colors and fabrics are given, along with multiple 
views of the garments both inside and out. In a number of cases, accessories 
are also included.  I got it new in paperback at $35.00; I don't know if it's 
still in print either.

I just looked again at your question and realized that you may not want the 
book to focus on historical costuming at all, but on techniques for 
theatrical costume or the like.  If that's the case, I can't help you since I 
don't really know how to judge such books, but I'm sure others will have 
recommendations.  :-)

Good luck!


-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 00:09:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J49AHP016014
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:09:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J47FUw005398
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:07:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J47Dfl028623;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:07:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J479fm028586
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:07:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-64-160-176-162.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[64.160.176.162])h5J48CAe040527
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from alice@wonderland.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:06:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance period
	silk shiny or not?)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552)
From: Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306182359.30911.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Message-Id: <78519F6E-A20B-11D7-9FAC-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5J479fm028586
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

for $15 (sorry I didn't see the price restriction earlier) I would be
hunting for used books.  I've seen several copies of the Costume 
Technician's
Handbook used that were in that price range, and it's a fantastic 
technical
book for beginners.

Heather


On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 08:59 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond 
wrote:

> On Wednesday 18 June 2003 01:35 pm, Dawn Jacobson wrote:
>
>> OK, here's a question for everybody--if you're giving
>> a book to a new costumer as a gift, what title (under
>> $15 or so) would you give?
>
> The tough part is the "under $15 or so".  There are a number of books 
> I'd be
> willing to give a beginner, but they mostly start in the $20-$25 
> range.  The
> only under $15's I know of are Dover books.  The Dover books tend to 
> be older
> works, most of which are based on dubious scholarship in my opinion.
>
> The answer also depends on whether you want the gift to be:
>
> 1) a good general history of costume;
> 2) a good reference "how-to" for historical costuming, or;
> 3) a good survey that focuses on a particular period/s.
>
> I assumed from the phrasing of your request that you were thinking of
> something in category 1), but I'll try to give examples of all three 
> anyway.
>
> Category 1):  Ironically, the book I'd pick in this category (of the 
> ones no
> one has recommended yet) is one I've read but don't own:  Milla 
> Davenport's
> The Book of Costume (Crown Publishers Inc. New York 1976)  ISBN 
> 0517037165.
> Abebooks currently has a one-volume edition for about $80.  (I read 
> the older
> 2-vol edition).  However, it may be possible to find a cheaper copy by
> shopping around.
>
> I like Davenport for this purpose because her illustrations are all 
> from
> period art, so any biases reflected in the artwork are at least period
> biases.  Sadly, they are all black and white photos of varying (often
> mediocre) qualities, but there is a sufficient variety of them 
> (including
> some of works that are not commonly reproduced elsewhere) to whet the
> appetite.
>
> Category 2):  Frances Grimble, After a Fashion:  How to Reproduce, 
> Restore,
> and Wear Vintage Styles.  (Lavolta Press, 1998)  ISBN  0-9636517-3-0.  
> Fran's
> book has a little of everything, from practical advice about sewing, 
> cutting,
> and fabric selection to a mini-history of costume from the Middle Ages 
> to the
> early 20th century--and her line drawings of period styles are clear 
> and
> accurate.
>
> I got my copy as a present, but I believe it runs about $35.00 new for 
> the
> current edition.
>
> Category 3):  There's more options here--including options in the 
> price range
> you mention.  However, all of these books cover only a limited 
> historical
> range.  I'll list some of my favorites, sticking to the ones that cover
> fairly broad periods.
>
> Francis M. Kelly and Randolph Schwabe, A Short History of Costume and 
> Armour.
> (Dover, 2002).
>
> Reprint of an early 1930's 2-volume work that covers from 1066 to 
> 1800.  Its
> strengths include:  1)  in many cases the authors have the sense to 
> tell you
> when they're speculating; 2) at least half the illustrations are of 
> period
> art (and the rest are rather good line drawings based on period art,
> including sculpture).  Dover prices this at $14.95.  Of all the Dover 
> costume
> books I've bought over the years, I think this one is probably the most
> useful and the least victimized by limited information and inadequate
> scholarship.
>
> Mary G. Houston.  She did at least three books covering different 
> periods.
>
> 	*  Ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian & Persian Costume
> 		Dover Publications 1954. ISBN 0-486-42562-2. I don't know if this is 
> in 		
> print right now, but Abebooks has at least one copy for $9.00.
>
> 	*  Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume
>  		Dover Publications 2003 ISBN: 0486426106 Powells has this for 
> $13.95, which
> is in the typical range for new Dover stuff.
>
> 	*	Medieval Costume in England and France
> 	Dover Publications 1996 ISBN 0-486-29060-3  My copy was $8.95 new.
>
> Houston sometimes makes silly conjectures about things, but she 
> usually gives
> provenances for the art she's talking about, and describes it clearly 
> enough
> that it's often possible to draw your own conclusions.  Her 
> illustrations are
> clear black and white drawings and B&W photographs, but her line 
> drawings are
> true to the original.
>
> My copies of the first two are hardcover from the original pre-Dover 
> editions;
> the Medieval one is a Dover paperback.  If you go for hardcover used, 
> they
> are fairly easy to find on line and run about $35-45 depending on 
> condition.
>
> C. Willett Cunnington & Phillis Cunnington, Handbook of Medieval 
> Costume
> (PLAYS, Inc. 1969).
>
> Covers from 800 C.E. to 1500 C.E.  Illustrations are good B&W 
> redrawings of
> period art.  Provenances for illustrations appear as endnotes.  (This 
> is one
> of the very first costume books I ever read, in case anyone cares.)  I 
> got my
> hardback copy used for something like $25.
>
> Nancy Bradfield.  (Somebody mentioned her stuff but didn't have the 
> titles
> handy).  There are two of these that I know of:
>
> 	*	Historical Costumes of England. (Quite Specific Media/Costume & 
> Fashion
> Press 1997)  ISBN 0-89676-218-1.  Some black and white photos of 
> period art,
> and line drawings.  Covers roughly from 1066 to 1970.  I got it new in
> paperback at $29.95; I don't know if it's still in print.
>
> 	*	Costume in Detail:  1730-1930 (Quite Specific Media/Costume & 
> Fashion Press
> 1997).  The magic of this book is that the author's line drawings are 
> done
> from actual, surviving costumes, whose owners are identified; many are 
> too
> fragile for public display.  Again all black and white illustrations, 
> but
> detailed descriptions of colors and fabrics are given, along with 
> multiple
> views of the garments both inside and out. In a number of cases, 
> accessories
> are also included.  I got it new in paperback at $35.00; I don't know 
> if it's
> still in print either.
>
> I just looked again at your question and realized that you may not 
> want the
> book to focus on historical costuming at all, but on techniques for
> theatrical costume or the like.  If that's the case, I can't help you 
> since I
> don't really know how to judge such books, but I'm sure others will 
> have
> recommendations.  :-)
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> -- 
> Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
>
> “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.”
> Albert Einstein
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 00:43:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J4h3HP016093
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:43:03 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J4f9Uw007710
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:41:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J4f7fl013936;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:41:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J4f4fl013909
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:41:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-000-005.jps.net ([216.119.0.5] helo=pavilion)
	by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SrEN-0002oI-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:41:04 -0700
Message-ID: <001101c3361f$1ad727e0$050077d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:56:09 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Adobe's "Paper Capture" free trial service
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h5J4h3HP016093
Status: RO

ooohhh,

I just came across something.  I've finally managed to scan my Furnival edition of Stubbes the Anatomie of Abuses and and getting the scans ready to put online.  I wanted to make it searchable, but from the scans, not typed out with modern spelling, no time for that, but hopefully that will come with the help of others and so I started looking at how adobe acrobat does that, creates scannable documents that is.  Adobe Acrobat 5 which I have creates 50 pages of searchable pages with their "paper capture" plug in.  I need more than that, and the full Paper Capture version is at least $200 plus - educational version, not an option for me.  But..... some of you might be interested in this..... the adobe site http://createpdf.adobe.com/index.pl/1234257457.20884?BP=IE  offers an online converting service and you get five documents converted for free with their trial offer!!!  Has anyone tried this service?

As a follow on, one could scan all the photocopied costuming related material they've collected and use this service to make a searchable document of it all.  Paper capture OCR's it for you an creates an electronic searchable document.

Just thought I'd pass this on.  I'm going to give it a try.


Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 01:11:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J5BwHP016148
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:11:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J5A0Uw009450
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:10:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J59xMf026253;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:09:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J59vMf026238
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:09:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-005-070.jps.net ([216.119.5.70] helo=pavilion)
	by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SrgK-0006dy-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:09:57 -0700
Message-ID: <000801c33623$23c25740$460577d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <001101c3361f$1ad727e0$050077d8@pavilion>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Adobe's "Paper Capture" free trial service
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:25:02 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

corrected email - should have been "creates searchable documents" not
"creates scannable documents".


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Adobe's "Paper Capture" free trial service


ooohhh,

I just came across something.  I've finally managed to scan my Furnival
edition of Stubbes the Anatomie of Abuses and and getting the scans ready to
put online.  I wanted to make it searchable, but from the scans, not typed
out with modern spelling, no time for that, but hopefully that will come
with the help of others and so I started looking at how adobe acrobat does
that, creates searchable documents that is.  Adobe Acrobat 5 which I have
creates 50 pages of searchable pages with their "paper capture" plug in.  I
need more than that, and the full Paper Capture version is at least $200
plus - educational version, not an option for me.  But..... some of you
might be interested in this..... the adobe site
http://createpdf.adobe.com/index.pl/1234257457.20884?BP=IE  offers an online
converting service and you get five documents converted for free with their
trial offer!!!  Has anyone tried this service?

As a follow on, one could scan all the photocopied costuming related
material they've collected and use this service to make a searchable
document of it all.  Paper capture OCR's it for you an creates an electronic
searchable document.

Just thought I'd pass this on.  I'm going to give it a try.


Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 01:20:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J5KEHP016157
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:20:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J5IOUw009903
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:18:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J5IMMf029896;
	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:18:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J5IKMf029875
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:18:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGP00EDYQQE5B@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:18:20 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:08:59 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts
In-reply-to: <p05100300bb1564396952@[136.152.196.229]>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618220256.02e5d600@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20030617094555.00af8520@127.0.0.1>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 05:42 PM 6/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Any time you think you have (or someone else has) "the" answer, give your 
>critical faculties a swift kick and get them working again.
>
>Heather


Hi Heather,

For some reason I almost overlooked this response.

I agree with you on what you wrote. I think I might just print this in big 
words and tape it over my desktop as a nice reminder whenever I read or 
hear... oh you can't do that, it just isn't period ever!

Kimiko


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 03:32:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J7WgHP018567
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:32:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J7UpUw018242
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:30:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5J7UmCr001185;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:30:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.87])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5J7UjCr001142
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:30:45 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030619073039.73389.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:30:39 BST
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:30:39 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Male 'Frankish' headdress 8th century question. 
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <003301c335d1$53c089f0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net> wrote: > Any idea's what a male
Frank from the 8th century would wear on his
> head?   This fellow is a duke in the SCA so I guess he needs to be able
> to wear it under his coronet.would they do that?

No they would NOT. I have not seen a single image that would suggest that. Then
again the whole idea of a ducal coronet is 1970s SCA and not 8th c. Frankish,
so...

  He was thinking a
> phrygian cap? 

That's probably quite safe, yes.

> Just in case you are wondering, it is NOT a highly accurate garment..I
> think cool is a little more important to him than historic accuracy..

Oh good that you said that :-) I was wondering about the pretty shiny trim *G*

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 09:48:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDmbHP024671
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:48:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDkcUw010349
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:46:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDkMX3000197;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:46:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDk9X3029922
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:46:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Szjq-0006DI-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:46:08 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Adobe's "Paper Capture" free trial service
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:46:06 -0700
Message-ID: <000901c33669$21f3fd10$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <001101c3361f$1ad727e0$050077d8@pavilion>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

If you haven't used Adobe's software, this is a great opportunity.  I am
sure their online stuff is just as good as their other.  FYI Lisa, when
you run out of free trial I have the software myself, and would be happy
to convert anything you need.  It only takes a cyber minute!

Sg




_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 09:50:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDoEHP024676
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:50:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDmSUw010458
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:48:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDmRX3001415;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:48:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDmOX3001383
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:48:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Szm1-0001Bl-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:48:22 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fw: Costumer Burnout survey-Theater Costumers please
	respond
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:48:21 -0700
Message-ID: <000c01c33669$72ac3420$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <007801c33612$d1294580$38447a43@angelap3a8d978>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Angela, where are folks to send their responses?

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates


~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of Angela F. Lazear
~Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:28 PM
~To: h-costume@indra.com
~Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Costumer Burnout survey-Theater Costumers please
respond
~
~The following is a survey for an article in Stage Directions Magazine.
Any
~of you who have the time to respond to Christine, please do so, she's
hoping
~for 100 responses.
~
~angela
~+++++
~Angela F. Lazear
~Cabbage Rose Costumes
~http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
~"Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great,
~some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust
~upon them."
~Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare
~
~
~> Hi Angela,
~>
~> It was great to speak with you this week. It's been a bit challenging
to
~get
~> some survey/statistical information so I've come up with a
questionnaire
~based
~> on the interviews I've done with people so far. Could you please take
a
~> moment to fill it out and please pass it along to your costumer
friends.
~I'm hoping
~> to get a decent response, maybe 100 replies. I'm setting June 27 as
my
~> deadline for this. The survey was done in the spirit of fun as well
so
~hopefully
~> you'll get a laugh or two from reading this.
~>
~> Many thanks,
~>
~> Christine
~>
~>
~>
~> 1) What % of the time are you stressed about your job as a costumer?
~>
~> a) less than 10%--My job is a breeze most of the time.
~>
~> b) 30-40%--Yes, work gets stressful but it's nothing I can't handle.
~>
~> c) 50%-75%--Can I have a cup of coffee with a side order of stress?
~>
~> d) 90% -100%--Yikes, stress really consumes me.
~>
~>
~> 2) My biggest stressors are:
~>     (You can indicate more than one)
~>
~> a) Diva behavior from actors, directors and others
~> b) Too many projects at once--I can't say no.
~> c) Unrealistic expectations from directors/other theater staff
~> d) Not enough staff to support the project
~> e) Other
~>
~> 3) I release stress by:
~>
~> a) sewing or other handicraft
~> b) exercise
~> c) taking a trip
~> d) yelling at everyone around me
~> e) other
~>
~> 4) I find (fill in the blank with an activity)  helpful to relax
because:
~>
~> a) it takes my mind off my work
~> b) it gives me a feeling of artistic accomplishment without the
stress of
~> working with others
~> c) it's just a fun diversion
~> d) it beats throwing darts at someone's picture
~> e) other
~>
~> 5) If I could choose my profession again, I'd still be a costumer:
~>
~> a) yes
~> b) no
~> c) unsure--Could I outfit Brad Pitt?
~>
~> 6) The most rewarding thing about my work is:
~>
~> a) knowing I did a great job
~> b) hearing the audience applause and knowing I contributed to that
~> c) the acknowledgement of my crew
~> d) it makes my mother happy
~> e) other
~>
~> 7) If I knew then what I know know I'd...
~>
~> Please fill in the blank
~>
~> 8) Preventing costumer burnout is:
~>
~> a) a matter of pacing yourself, like you're doing a dance
~> b) easy if you just choosing projects you're passionate about and
devoting
~> yourself to them
~> c) possible if you have some artistic projects outside of your work
that
~help
~> you grow as a professional
~> d) impossible in this fast-paced unpredictable business
~> e) other
~>
~> 9) Generally, what time of the year is most stressful for you?
~>
~>
~> a) winter
~> b) summer
~> c)spring
~> d) fall
~> e) other
~>
~> 10) Anything you would like to add that has helped you deal with
stress as
~a
~> costumer.
~>
~>
~>
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 09:59:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDxmHP024686
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:59:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDvqUw011282
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:57:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDvo8X006369;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:57:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JDvm8X006348
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:57:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19SzvA-00059r-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:57:48 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:57:46 -0700
Message-ID: <000d01c3366a$c42ca7c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <20030619073039.73389.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Importance: Normal
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was: Male 'Frankish' headdress 8th
	century question. 
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks for the information Nicole, you have confirmed my suspicions. 

You have aroused other questions about textiles in my mind though...I
wasn't sure if you were referring to the shiny piping which is 100% silk
(we have another thread going on piping itself), or the flat trim which
is synthetic-but looks very 'natural'.  

Would woven silk trim not have had some sheen?  I ask because I don't
really know much about silk fibers. I have been fiddling with some
tablet weaving and needle point and much of the silk thread you see is
flat.  I remember asking Bjarne if he knew of a source for shiny silk
thread and he was able to point me to some, but it just doesn't seem
much in use today...but our tastes are different.

I know the SCA has all sorts of conventions which aren't historically
based, but anyone know what the conventions were about wearing a coronet
for someone besides the actual Queen and King?

Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 10:07:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JE7jHP024703
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:07:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JE5wUw012097
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:05:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JE5v8X010846;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:05:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5JE5u8X010829
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:05:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 25003 invoked by uid 1005); 19 Jun 2003 14:05:47 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.067323 secs); 19 Jun 2003 14:05:47 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.067323 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 14:05:47 -0000
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:05:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was: Male 'Frankish'
 headdress 8th century question. 
In-Reply-To: <000d01c3366a$c42ca7c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Message-ID: <20030619100306.S82717-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

If you want some good examples of what period tablet-woven silk trims
would have looked like when new, I definitely recommend Nancy Spies's book
on Brocaded tablet-woven trim, "Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic
Circumstance: a Thousand Years of Brocaded Tablet-woven Bands".

Even if you don't plan to take up brocaded tablet weaving, it's an
excellent source for examples of the patterns used and what the originals
looked like; a great resource to have when trying to find modern trims
that look "period".

Drea

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> Thanks for the information Nicole, you have confirmed my suspicions.
>
> You have aroused other questions about textiles in my mind though...I
> wasn't sure if you were referring to the shiny piping which is 100% silk
> (we have another thread going on piping itself), or the flat trim which
> is synthetic-but looks very 'natural'.
>
> Would woven silk trim not have had some sheen?  I ask because I don't
> really know much about silk fibers. I have been fiddling with some
> tablet weaving and needle point and much of the silk thread you see is
> flat.  I remember asking Bjarne if he knew of a source for shiny silk
> thread and he was able to point me to some, but it just doesn't seem
> much in use today...but our tastes are different.
>
> I know the SCA has all sorts of conventions which aren't historically
> based, but anyone know what the conventions were about wearing a coronet
> for someone besides the actual Queen and King?
>
> Sg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 10:10:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JEAhHP024711
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:10:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JE3pUw011825
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:03:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JE3o8X009616;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:03:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80406.mail.yahoo.com (web80406.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.61])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5JE3j8X009535
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:03:45 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030619140340.68057.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:03:40 PDT
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Good gift books for beginners (was: Renaissance period
	silk shiny or not?)
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <6A98FB5A-A1B4-11D7-9FAC-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- Heather Meadows <alice@wonderland.com> wrote:
> 
> Janet Arnold's books,  Nancy Bradfield's (which I am
> forgetting the 
> title of),
> Naorah Waugh Corsets and Crinolines.

Nancy Bradfield: Costume in Detail, 1730-1930

Is that the one you're referring to?

All are terrific books (I've had them all in my
library for years), but not, as I originally
specified, under $15.

Any others?

Dawn


=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 10:14:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JEEEHP024718
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:14:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JECSUw012654
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:12:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JECQ8X014513;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:12:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80402.mail.yahoo.com (web80402.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.57])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5JECP8X014404
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:12:25 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030619141219.5791.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:12:19 PDT
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030618110915.02e55818@127.0.0.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com> wrote:
> 
> >Until the 16th century, satin weaves were primarily
> dull satin.  It wasn't
> >until the later 16th century that quite shiny satin
> pops up in portraits
> >and paintings.
> 
> I wonder what changed.

<snip>

The Venetians (and probably other Italians) introduced
the use of mangles in the calendering process
(calendering is similar to ironing, but imparts a
smooth and, if desired, shiny surface to the material
being processed).

IIRC, I believe the Italians were producing some of
the first calendered rag papers in the century prior
to patents being issued for calendering fabrics. Now
I'm wondering, did some enterprising Italian see a
paper calendering mill and think to himself, "If I
substitute fabric for the paper..."

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 10:38:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JEcwHP024769
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:38:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JEbAUw015179
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:37:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JEb98X000784;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:37:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JEb68X000749
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:37:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19T0XC-0002bn-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:37:06 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was: Male 'Frankish'
	headdress 8th century question. 
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:37:02 -0700
Message-ID: <002e01c33670$41ea0a40$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <20030619100306.S82717-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

My copy (paperback) doesn't have any color photos except on the front
cover, but I now see thumbing through it that there is one picture of a
king with what looks like a coif under his crown.  I have not read the
technical section carefully, but it looks like there might be some hints
in there.....thanks for reminding me about this text.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 11:09:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JF91HP024835
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:09:01 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JExiUw017289
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:59:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JExhv6015276;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:59:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.54])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JExfv6015264
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:59:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19T0sz-0002sL-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:59:37 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:59:33 -0700
Message-ID: <003101c33673$676e59d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <20030619141219.5791.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Importance: Normal
Subject: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~The Venetians (and probably other Italians) introduced
~the use of mangles in the calendering process
~(calendering is similar to ironing, but imparts a
~smooth and, if desired, shiny surface to the material
~being processed).

 Does anyone know if this is required or would increase the shininess of
silk?

Sg
(who is again bemoaning the fact that she chose mechanical over textiles
engineering, kick, grumble, spit!)

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 11:27:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JFRUHP024893
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:27:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JFPYUw019701
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:25:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JFPUv6002069;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:25:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JFPRv6002041
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:25:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-9-87.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.87] helo=pavilion)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19T1Hy-00002Q-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:25:27 -0700
Message-ID: <001f01c33679$20fcffa0$7b0877d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <003101c33673$676e59d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny or
	not?
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:40:35 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yes, callendering is used to produce a sheen.  Pressure on the fabric makes
the surface more compact & smooth and this changes the way it reflects
light, thus producing shininess.

Lisa

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:59 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny or not?


> ~The Venetians (and probably other Italians) introduced
> ~the use of mangles in the calendering process
> ~(calendering is similar to ironing, but imparts a
> ~smooth and, if desired, shiny surface to the material
> ~being processed).
>
>  Does anyone know if this is required or would increase the shininess of
> silk?
>
> Sg
> (who is again bemoaning the fact that she chose mechanical over textiles
> engineering, kick, grumble, spit!)
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 11:28:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JFSEHP024898
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:28:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JFQFUw019815
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:26:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JFQEv6002585;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:26:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5JFQBv6002536
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:26:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 54892 invoked by uid 1005); 19 Jun 2003 15:26:05 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.544496 secs); 19 Jun 2003 15:26:05 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.544496 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 15:26:04 -0000
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:26:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-ID: <20030619112505.Y82717-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: [h-cost] How to easily distinguish linen from cotton
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I came across the following article on how to reliably tell linen from
cotton fabric by a variety of methods--I figured the list would be
interested.  I know I sure was! :)

http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/articles/hr1_fibr.pdf

Drea

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 12:05:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JG5EHP024999
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:05:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JG2xUw024140
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:03:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JG2vwn028872;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:02:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JG2pwn028775
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:02:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail20.ureach.com (mail20.ureach.com [172.16.2.80])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24298
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:02:50 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail20.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA24294
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:02:50 -0400
Message-ID: <042801c3367b$c5f39c60$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030619100306.S82717-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was: Male 'Frankish'
	headdress 8th century question. 
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:59:32 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This is an awesome book!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drea Leed" <drea@nospam>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was: Male 'Frankish'
headdress 8th century question.


> If you want some good examples of what period tablet-woven silk trims
> would have looked like when new, I definitely recommend Nancy Spies's book
> on Brocaded tablet-woven trim, "Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic
> Circumstance: a Thousand Years of Brocaded Tablet-woven Bands".
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 13:15:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JHFpHP025129
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:15:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JH8lUw003213
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:08:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JH8fAs020495;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:08:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JH8cAs020456
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:08:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-6-018.dav.jps.net ([216.119.6.18] helo=pavilion)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19T2to-0002ua-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:08:37 -0700
Message-ID: <004f01c33687$8a595120$7b0877d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030619141219.5791.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:23:44 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: [h-cost] 
	what makes a fabric shiny - was -  Renaissance period silk shiny or
	not?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>
> --- Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Until the 16th century, satin weaves were primarily
> > dull satin.  It wasn't
> > >until the later 16th century that quite shiny satin
> > pops up in portraits
> > >and paintings.
> >
> > I wonder what changed.

I've posted a couple of illustrations for the following on
www.threadneedlest.com/fabricsheen.htm

>
In general these are a few of the factors influencing the shine of a silk
fabric.  Remember the sheen of a fabric is determined by how light reflects
off of it.  A smooth surface creates sheen.

The fibre itself - a smooth yarn reflects light more than a rough one.  Silk
from the cocoon has a smooth filament.  Twisting several filaments to create
a yarn introduces indentations in the surface of the yarn.  Less twist = a
smoother and shinier yarn.

The Weave - with a satin weave, long "floats" in the weave make for a smooth
surface.  The greater number of "floats" and the longer the distance they
float over the smoother the surface and the shinier the fabric.  More floats
also make the fabric easier to snag.

Degumming - silk filaments from the cocoon contain about 20% sericin which
is removed in a process called degumming.  This makes for a lighter and more
lustrous and softer fabric.  A heavier silk fabric probably contains more
sericin and has not been processed as much, also less shiny.

Callendering - Ironing a fabric squishes the fibres smooth and heat sets
them in place.  Which is why you should not iron your clothes just before
wearing them, but allow for enough time for them to cool, otherwise when you
wear a still warm garment you again rearrange the fibres into your body
creases and where they get set and stay all day.  This advice is an example
of do as I say, not as I do.

Finishing - The application of waxes or starch or resins also create a
smooth surface.  They "glue" down the microscopic irregularities in a
fibre's surface and this makes the fabric shiny.  Starch was used in England
much earlier then Stowe indicated but perhaps not commercial production.
There is a proclamation under Edward, I believe, that prohibits wool from
being finished with starch.

So here are a few factors to consider when trying to determine the change in
luster of silk through time.

Lisa

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 13:18:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JHISHP025139
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:18:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JHG6Uw004253
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:16:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JHG5As026439;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:16:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JHFxAs026378
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:15:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [205.133.149.94] (pm4-094.eos.net [205.133.149.94])
	by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11822
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:09:46 -0400
From: Gail & Scott Finke <gailscott@eos.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB17669A.968B%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <200306190019.h5J0J32m011035@net.indra.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] cap and gown
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


My brother got his PhD two years ago and the rented gown was gorgeous -- no
shabby polyester! It looked like real medieval clothing, except for the
ridiculous hood -- but I made my brother put it on as a HOOD, rather than a
neck ornament, and you could still see that it was a hood.

I haven't checked any of the web sites cited, but my immediate reaction to
any claim that something had masonic or other secret origins is extreme
skepticism. Like tarot cards and their supposedly ancient Egyptian origin,
etc. etc. Most secret origins are made up -- it's just that enough are real
to make it always a tantalizing possibility!

Gail Finke


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 14:20:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIKlHP025330
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:20:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIIkUw011689
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:18:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIIiOk014708;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:18:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIIgOk014687
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:18:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19T3zd-0007O2-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:18:42 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] what makes a fabric shiny - was -  Renaissance period
	silk shiny ornot?
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:18:41 -0700
Message-ID: <000e01c3368f$36b3c480$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <004f01c33687$8a595120$7b0877d8@pavilion>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Great explanation and pictures-thanks Lisa!

"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
Isocrates




_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 14:58:27 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIwRHP025432
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:58:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIt1VA015902
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:56:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIhpOk003296;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:43:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIhbOk003116
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:43:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-14-4.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.4] helo=pavilion)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19T4Nj-0005lS-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:43:35 -0700
Message-ID: <007b01c33694$ceab5320$7b0877d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000e01c3368f$36b3c480$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] what makes a fabric shiny - was -  Renaissance
	periodsilk shiny ornot?
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:58:43 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

thanks, I forgot to add that waxes, starches, resins also often have
reflective surfaces in and of themselves.

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:18 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] what makes a fabric shiny - was - Renaissance
periodsilk shiny ornot?


> Great explanation and pictures-thanks Lisa!
>
> "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
> Isocrates
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 15:03:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JJ3IHP025456
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:03:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JJ1LUw016516
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:01:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JJ1Kqo015166;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:01:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lycos.com (www1.mail.lycos.com [209.202.220.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5JJ1Hqo015085
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:01:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:00:50 -0000
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:00:50 -0400
From: "Katie Lewis" <katie_lewis@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <FAJDKCMMJAMKPDAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sent-Mail: on
X-Mailer: MailCity Service
X-Priority: 3
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and StatutesofApparel
X-Sender-Ip: 129.219.101.100
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Language: en
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


That is basically the story that I heard, except that the yellow boundry rope was called "The Yellow Peril", and there was a white one called "The White Russian" in additon to "Eric the Red".  The first two didn't last long, but "Eric" was around for years.

/obligatory costume content/
The flags were made of fabric. 

-Katie
--------- Original Message ---------

DATE: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:03:00
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Cc: 

>It had something to do with the little flags that hung from the rope
>surrounding the list area. Originally they were red and another color
>(yellow?). The other color was not as durable and so soon it was just red
>flags. They jokingly referred to it as Eric the Red. Soon it was perceived
>as being period to call it an erik.



____________________________________________________________
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 16:00:54 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JK0sHP025619
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:00:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JJx0Uw023461
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:59:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JJwuqv026775;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:58:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JJwrqv026744
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:58:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2107527A06
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:51:26 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EF222A5.4000000@grics.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:52:54 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cap and gown
References: <BB17669A.968B%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <BB17669A.968B%gailscott@eos.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oh!... Not Secret origins in this case.  I had heard somewhere that the 
*mortarboard* (like i graduated from HS in) was intended to look like a 
literal mortafboard - as in bricklayers.  It sounded pretty bizarre to 
me - if it *isn't* true, it'll be nice to hear that i didn't get my b.a. 
with a polyester imitation of a tray of concrete on my head...

Heather L
getting up *now* for more coffee

Gail & Scott Finke wrote:

>My brother got his PhD two years ago and the rented gown was gorgeous -- no
>shabby polyester! It looked like real medieval clothing, except for the
>ridiculous hood -- but I made my brother put it on as a HOOD, rather than a
>neck ornament, and you could still see that it was a hood.
>
>I haven't checked any of the web sites cited, but my immediate reaction to
>any claim that something had masonic or other secret origins is extreme
>skepticism. Like tarot cards and their supposedly ancient Egyptian origin,
>etc. etc. Most secret origins are made up -- it's just that enough are real
>to make it always a tantalizing possibility!
>
>Gail Finke
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 17:29:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JLT0HP026186
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:29:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JLR7Uw004239
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:27:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JLR4Dn005319;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:27:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.88])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5JLQvDn005153
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:26:58 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030619212651.4077.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:26:51 BST
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:26:51 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was: Male 'Frankish'
	headdress 8th century question. 
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <000d01c3366a$c42ca7c0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net> wrote: > Thanks for the
information Nicole, you have confirmed my suspicions. 
> 
> You have aroused other questions about textiles in my mind though...I
> wasn't sure if you were referring to the shiny piping which is 100% silk
> (we have another thread going on piping itself), or the flat trim which
> is synthetic-but looks very 'natural'.  

Ah, sorry, I didn't even see the piping. I meant the braid, which is fine, but
just not what would have existed. The braid is a modern way of brocading (or
whatever technical term is appropriate) and not how a brocaded tablet weave
would look like. Drea's book suggestion is excellent.

> I know the SCA has all sorts of conventions which aren't historically
> based, but anyone know what the conventions were about wearing a coronet
> for someone besides the actual Queen and King?

In 8th c. Franken? I really don't know, I haven't come across any.

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 18:12:35 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMCZHP026277
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:12:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMAlUw009918
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:10:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMAjvl007812;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:10:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
	[66.163.168.182])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5JMAgvl007780
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:10:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (HELO AngelaFLazear)
	(cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login)
	by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP;
	19 Jun 2003 22:10:42 -0000
Message-ID: <00d501c336af$9c321350$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear>
From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" <cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000c01c33669$72ac3420$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Costumer Burnout survey-Theater Costumers
	pleaserespond
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:10:36 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'll get her email. I swear it was in the body of the text when I cut, but
apparently not so much!! sheesh

a

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:48 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fw: Costumer Burnout survey-Theater Costumers
pleaserespond


> Angela, where are folks to send their responses?
>
> "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet"
> Isocrates
>
>
> ~-----Original Message-----
> ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
> On
> ~Behalf Of Angela F. Lazear
> ~Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:28 PM
> ~To: h-costume@indra.com
> ~Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Costumer Burnout survey-Theater Costumers please
> respond
> ~
> ~The following is a survey for an article in Stage Directions Magazine.
> Any
> ~of you who have the time to respond to Christine, please do so, she's
> hoping
> ~for 100 responses.
> ~
> ~angela
> ~+++++
> ~Angela F. Lazear
> ~Cabbage Rose Costumes
> ~http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> ~"Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great,
> ~some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust
> ~upon them."
> ~Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare
> ~
> ~
> ~> Hi Angela,
> ~>
> ~> It was great to speak with you this week. It's been a bit challenging
> to
> ~get
> ~> some survey/statistical information so I've come up with a
> questionnaire
> ~based
> ~> on the interviews I've done with people so far. Could you please take
> a
> ~> moment to fill it out and please pass it along to your costumer
> friends.
> ~I'm hoping
> ~> to get a decent response, maybe 100 replies. I'm setting June 27 as
> my
> ~> deadline for this. The survey was done in the spirit of fun as well
> so
> ~hopefully
> ~> you'll get a laugh or two from reading this.
> ~>
> ~> Many thanks,
> ~>
> ~> Christine
> ~>
> ~>
> ~>
> ~> 1) What % of the time are you stressed about your job as a costumer?
> ~>
> ~> a) less than 10%--My job is a breeze most of the time.
> ~>
> ~> b) 30-40%--Yes, work gets stressful but it's nothing I can't handle.
> ~>
> ~> c) 50%-75%--Can I have a cup of coffee with a side order of stress?
> ~>
> ~> d) 90% -100%--Yikes, stress really consumes me.
> ~>
> ~>
> ~> 2) My biggest stressors are:
> ~>     (You can indicate more than one)
> ~>
> ~> a) Diva behavior from actors, directors and others
> ~> b) Too many projects at once--I can't say no.
> ~> c) Unrealistic expectations from directors/other theater staff
> ~> d) Not enough staff to support the project
> ~> e) Other
> ~>
> ~> 3) I release stress by:
> ~>
> ~> a) sewing or other handicraft
> ~> b) exercise
> ~> c) taking a trip
> ~> d) yelling at everyone around me
> ~> e) other
> ~>
> ~> 4) I find (fill in the blank with an activity)  helpful to relax
> because:
> ~>
> ~> a) it takes my mind off my work
> ~> b) it gives me a feeling of artistic accomplishment without the
> stress of
> ~> working with others
> ~> c) it's just a fun diversion
> ~> d) it beats throwing darts at someone's picture
> ~> e) other
> ~>
> ~> 5) If I could choose my profession again, I'd still be a costumer:
> ~>
> ~> a) yes
> ~> b) no
> ~> c) unsure--Could I outfit Brad Pitt?
> ~>
> ~> 6) The most rewarding thing about my work is:
> ~>
> ~> a) knowing I did a great job
> ~> b) hearing the audience applause and knowing I contributed to that
> ~> c) the acknowledgement of my crew
> ~> d) it makes my mother happy
> ~> e) other
> ~>
> ~> 7) If I knew then what I know know I'd...
> ~>
> ~> Please fill in the blank
> ~>
> ~> 8) Preventing costumer burnout is:
> ~>
> ~> a) a matter of pacing yourself, like you're doing a dance
> ~> b) easy if you just choosing projects you're passionate about and
> devoting
> ~> yourself to them
> ~> c) possible if you have some artistic projects outside of your work
> that
> ~help
> ~> you grow as a professional
> ~> d) impossible in this fast-paced unpredictable business
> ~> e) other
> ~>
> ~> 9) Generally, what time of the year is most stressful for you?
> ~>
> ~>
> ~> a) winter
> ~> b) summer
> ~> c)spring
> ~> d) fall
> ~> e) other
> ~>
> ~> 10) Anything you would like to add that has helped you deal with
> stress as
> ~a
> ~> costumer.
> ~>
> ~>
> ~>
> ~
> ~_______________________________________________
> ~h-costume mailing list
> ~h-costume@mail.indra.com
> ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 18:33:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMXUHP026308
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:33:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMVfUw012596
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:31:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMVdvl023141;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:31:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMVZvl023098
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:31:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5JMVYPn011692
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.196.245] (tnt-1-53.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.245])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JMVSdl011610
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100300bb17dab6b678@[136.152.197.170]>
In-Reply-To: <3EF222A5.4000000@grics.net>
References: <BB17669A.968B%gailscott@eos.net> <3EF222A5.4000000@grics.net>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:28:01 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cap and gown
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 3:52 PM -0500 6/19/03, H. Law wrote:
>Oh!... Not Secret origins in this case.  I had heard somewhere that 
>the *mortarboard* (like i graduated from HS in) was intended to look 
>like a literal mortafboard - as in bricklayers.  It sounded pretty 
>bizarre to me - if it *isn't* true, it'll be nice to hear that i 
>didn't get my b.a. with a polyester imitation of a tray of concrete 
>on my head...

I believe it acquired the nickname "mortarboard" retroactively.  The 
hat itself is a somewhat peculiar descendent of the biretta, a sort 
of squared-off beret.

My institution (U.C. Berkeley) has a PhD "cap" that's an octagonal 
biretta (dark blue velvet w/real metallic tassel).  It's definitely 
high up on the list of reasons to get a PhD at Berkeley.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 19:42:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JNg5HP026533
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:42:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JNeBUw019133
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:40:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JNe9Zl007047;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:40:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JNe5Zl006976
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:40:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19T90Z-0006wO-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:40:00 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was: Male
	'Frankish'headdress 8th century question. 
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:39:44 -0700
Message-ID: <004401c336bc$190c1680$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <20030619212651.4077.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~would look like. Drea's book suggestion is excellent.

[Sg:] If you like Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance, you
will probably llike Peter Collingwood's and Candace Crockett's books
even better. Crockett's book has better pictures of stuff and
Collingwood discusses each weave in lots of detail.

On page 17 of Crockett's book there is a French ecclesiastical card
weaving from the twelfth century.  It is very finely woven and has
intricate patterns of fleur de lis , vines and diamonds.   Does anyone
know of anyone 'out there' reproducing detailed narrow wares like this
for use on their historic re-creations of the same detail? 

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 20:34:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0YWHP026719
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:34:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0WmUw024011
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:32:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0WhRl006394;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:32:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0WeRl006320
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:32:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a214.in-tch.com [66.62.107.14])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5K0DnL18028
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:13:50 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EF2568A.7257AD7B@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:34:18 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was:
	Male'Frankish'headdress  8th century question.
References: <004401c336bc$190c1680$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm familiar with Collingwood (have a borrowed copy in the living room
<g>), but not Crockett.  What's the title of her book(s)?
--sue, working on learning to make narrow wares

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> ~would look like. Drea's book suggestion is excellent.
> 
> [Sg:] If you like Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance, you
> will probably llike Peter Collingwood's and Candace Crockett's books
> even better. Crockett's book has better pictures of stuff and
> Collingwood discusses each weave in lots of detail.
> 
> On page 17 of Crockett's book there is a French ecclesiastical card
> weaving from the twelfth century.  It is very finely woven and has
> intricate patterns of fleur de lis , vines and diamonds.   Does anyone
> know of anyone 'out there' reproducing detailed narrow wares like this
> for use on their historic re-creations of the same detail?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 20:46:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0kbHP026763
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:46:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0imUw024829
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:44:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0ijRl011939;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:44:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0ifRm011902
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:44:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5K0iuHe026538
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:45:04 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5K0ioUS026529
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:44:50 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was:
	Male'Frankish'headdress  8th century question.
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:44:50 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <004401c336bc$190c1680$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<3EF2568A.7257AD7B@in-tch.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EF2568A.7257AD7B@in-tch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306192044.50222.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5K0ifRm011902
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Thursday 19 June 2003 08:34 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote:
> I'm familiar with Collingwood (have a borrowed copy in the living room
> <g>), but not Crockett.  What's the title of her book(s)?
> --sue, working on learning to make narrow wares

Crockett's book is called "Card Weaving" and is a basic how-to on card weaving 
techniques.  

-- 
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>

â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
Albert Einstein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 20:59:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0xCHP026787
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:59:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0vLUw025719
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:57:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0vJw2017531;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:57:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K0vHw2017503
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:57:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12749
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:57:16 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-182.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.182])
	by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA20768
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:57:16 -0400
Message-ID: <04f801c336c6$6d2d3690$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <004401c336bc$190c1680$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was:
	Male'Frankish'headdress 8th century question. 
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:53:55 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Yes, though I don't know her name. She was teaching the class where I
learned how to tablet weave at an event in Tennessee. I don't know if she
was from the local group or not. All I really know about her is that she is
a Laurel in the SCA. She was talking with another woman about a mutual
friend who apparently also does tablet weaving of that caliber.

Also, at the recent Heraldic Symposium in St. Louis, there was a merchant
selling her tablet woven and inkle woven trims and some of them were
unbelievably intricate. I, unfortunately, did not get her name. I wish I had
for I would love to order some stuff from her.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Shiney Trim/coronet questions-was:
Male'Frankish'headdress 8th century question.


> On page 17 of Crockett's book there is a French ecclesiastical card
> weaving from the twelfth century.  It is very finely woven and has
> intricate patterns of fleur de lis , vines and diamonds.   Does anyone
> know of anyone 'out there' reproducing detailed narrow wares like this
> for use on their historic re-creations of the same detail?
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 22:07:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K272HP026947
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:07:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K25DUw001543
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:05:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K2594l022559;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:05:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K2564l022535
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:05:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (york.is.mcw.edu [141.106.12.17])
	by post.its.mcw.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h5K255m17705
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:05:05 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from post (net-60-62.dhcp.mcw.edu [141.106.60.62])
	by post.its.mcw.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id h5K254O17697
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:05:05 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <000f01c336d0$33428200$3e3c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab>
From: "mls" <mschulte@mcw.edu>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <BB17669A.968B%gailscott@eos.net> <3EF222A5.4000000@grics.net>
	<p05100300bb17dab6b678@[136.152.197.170]>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cap and gown
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:03:53 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

That's what I told people when they asked why I chose the Medical College of
Wisconsin for my PhD.....They wear Tudor caps, not mortar boards.....and
they gave me a stipend and covered tuition (a minor point, right?).

Marie
----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, 19 June, 2003 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cap and gown


> At 3:52 PM -0500 6/19/03, H. Law wrote:
> >Oh!... Not Secret origins in this case.  I had heard somewhere that
> >the *mortarboard* (like i graduated from HS in) was intended to look
> >like a literal mortafboard - as in bricklayers.  It sounded pretty
> >bizarre to me - if it *isn't* true, it'll be nice to hear that i
> >didn't get my b.a. with a polyester imitation of a tray of concrete
> >on my head...
>
> I believe it acquired the nickname "mortarboard" retroactively.  The
> hat itself is a somewhat peculiar descendent of the biretta, a sort
> of squared-off beret.
>
> My institution (U.C. Berkeley) has a PhD "cap" that's an octagonal
> biretta (dark blue velvet w/real metallic tassel).  It's definitely
> high up on the list of reasons to get a PhD at Berkeley.
>
> Heather


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 22:07:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K27fHP026951
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:07:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K25uUw001593
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:05:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K25r4l022830;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:05:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K25p4l022789
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:05:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m253.in-tch.com [216.166.191.253])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5K1l0L26155
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:47:01 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EF26C60.55E49E28@in-tch.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:07:28 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Shiney Trim/coronet
	questions-was:Male'Frankish'headdress   8th century question.
References: <004401c336bc$190c1680$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<200306192044.50222.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks.
--sue

Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
> 
> On Thursday 19 June 2003 08:34 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote:
> > I'm familiar with Collingwood (have a borrowed copy in the living room
> > <g>), but not Crockett.  What's the title of her book(s)?
> > --sue, working on learning to make narrow wares
> 
> Crockett's book is called "Card Weaving" and is a basic how-to on card weaving
> techniques.
> 
> --
> Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
> 
> â€œEverything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.â€
> Albert Einstein
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 19 23:03:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K33xHP027077
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:03:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K30xUw006212
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:00:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K30w3g020096;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:00:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net
	[209.176.170.30] (may be forged))
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K30q3g020044
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:00:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from localhost (robin@localhost)
	by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18081
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:24:03 -0500
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:24:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <04f801c336c6$6d2d3690$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306192205320.17775-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote:

> Also, at the recent Heraldic Symposium in St. Louis, there was a
> merchant selling her tablet woven and inkle woven trims and some of
> them were unbelievably intricate. I, unfortunately, did not get her
> name. I wish I had for I would love to order some stuff from her.

I picked up her card. Her prices are excellent, and she seems quite
cheerful about doing work to order based on swatches, so I expect I'll be
getting some trim made to match a dress that needs it.

The trim designs mostly seemed recognizably classic tablet-woven --
ladders, boxes, etc. She had an enormous amount of trim, in cotton, wool,
linen, and silk, in lengths ranging from garter-size to 4-yard pieces.
Prices depended on width; I was looking for very skinny trim (1cm and
smaller), which was mostly $10-$20 for a 4-yard length. The colors she had
at the event were not all terribly accurate (e.g. most of the blues were
not possible to achieve with woad/indigo) but were definitely in the
popular range of fabric colors for the SCA, so appropriate for the buying
crowd there.

Here's the info from the card:

White Wolf and the Phoenix
M.J. Houghton (SCA name: Megan o'Donnelly)
Inkle weaving, tablet weaving
Custom orders welcome
Fine handwoven trim in natural fibers
5412 Lakeford Lane
Bowie, MD 20720
301-464-8375
herveus@radix.net
http://www.radix.net/~herveus

The e-mail address appears to be that of her husband, Michael Houghton,
who is Herveus d'Ormonde in the SCA. His name is also on the card, as
apparently he makes the looms and tablets.

Oh, now as I look at the website, I remember seeing some of the other
goods -- wider decorative pieces, belts, etc. with a lot of heraldic
designs that have significance to various SCA orders and such. I don't see
the narrower geometric trims on the site.

--Robin


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 02:04:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K64fHP028846
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:04:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5pTUw022732
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:51:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5pQYd017022;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:51:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80405.mail.yahoo.com (web80405.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.60])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5K5pOYd016936
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:51:24 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:51:19 PDT
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:51:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306192205320.17775-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- Robin Netherton <robin@shell.nightowl.net> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote:
> 
> > Also, at the recent Heraldic Symposium in St.
> Louis, there was a
> > merchant selling her tablet woven and inkle woven
> trims and some of
> > them were unbelievably intricate. I,
> unfortunately, did not get her
> > name. I wish I had for I would love to order some
> stuff from her.
> 
> I picked up her card. Her prices are excellent, and
> she seems quite
> cheerful about doing work to order based on
> swatches, so I expect I'll be
> getting some trim made to match a dress that needs
> it.
> 
> The trim designs mostly seemed recognizably classic
> tablet-woven --
> ladders, boxes, etc. She had an enormous amount of
> trim, in cotton, wool,
> linen, and silk, in lengths ranging from garter-size
> to 4-yard pieces.
> Prices depended on width; I was looking for very
> skinny trim (1cm and
> smaller), which was mostly $10-$20 for a 4-yard
> length. The colors she had
> at the event were not all terribly accurate (e.g.
> most of the blues were
> not possible to achieve with woad/indigo) but were
> definitely in the
> popular range of fabric colors for the SCA, so
> appropriate for the buying
> crowd there.
> 
> Here's the info from the card:
> 
> White Wolf and the Phoenix
> M.J. Houghton (SCA name: Megan o'Donnelly)
> Inkle weaving, tablet weaving
> Custom orders welcome
> Fine handwoven trim in natural fibers
> 5412 Lakeford Lane
> Bowie, MD 20720
> 301-464-8375
> herveus@radix.net
> http://www.radix.net/~herveus
> 
> The e-mail address appears to be that of her
> husband, Michael Houghton,
> who is Herveus d'Ormonde in the SCA. His name is
> also on the card, as
> apparently he makes the looms and tablets.
> 
> Oh, now as I look at the website, I remember seeing
> some of the other
> goods -- wider decorative pieces, belts, etc. with a
> lot of heraldic
> designs that have significance to various SCA orders
> and such. I don't see
> the narrower geometric trims on the site.

Thanks for the information; it was interesting to
peruse her site. Her work is very pretty.

A tiny, slightly OT grump: I really wish those little
lap style inkle looms would fall out of fashion in the
SCA forever. They are not even close to anything of
the period; the original inkle loom of this type was
designed by Everett Gilmore (the guy who built my
floor loom) in the 1930s.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 02:05:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K65bHP029207
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:05:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5qfUw022809
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:52:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5qeYd017538;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:52:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5qcYd017519
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:52:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by keaton.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGR00ADAMZOCT@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:52:37 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:18:00 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  what makes a fabric shiny - was -  Renaissance  period
 silk shiny or not?
In-reply-to: <004f01c33687$8a595120$7b0877d8@pavilion>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030619221654.00af87b0@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <20030619141219.5791.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 10:23 AM 6/19/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>So here are a few factors to consider when trying to determine the change in
>luster of silk through time.
>
>Lisa


Thank you Lisa for sharing with us some wonderful information on the 
process. So much that goes into the wonderful fiber I drool over (and get 
waterspots on).  :-)

And please let us know when your site goes live.

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 02:07:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K67DHP029842
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:07:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5sGUw022884
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:54:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5sGYd018104;
	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:54:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K5sEYd018094
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:54:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGR00H7BN2DKA@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:54:14 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:44:52 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
In-reply-to: <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030619224401.02ebeed8@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306192205320.17775-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 10:51 PM 6/19/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>A tiny, slightly OT grump: I really wish those little
>lap style inkle looms would fall out of fashion in the
>SCA forever. They are not even close to anything of
>the period; the original inkle loom of this type was
>designed by Everett Gilmore (the guy who built my
>floor loom) in the 1930s.
>
>Dawn


Dawn

Would card weaving be more appropriate? Just curious, as I have done that a 
couple of times.

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 03:40:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7ePHP001086
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:40:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7RSUw029435
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:27:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7RSZ6028063;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:27:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (smtp.austarmetro.com.au
	[203.166.224.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7QtZ6027705
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:26:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ewalpole (dialup-86.46.194.203.acc02-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au
	[203.194.46.86])h5K7Qgpe002116
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:26:46 +1000
Message-ID: <004801c336fc$aeb28760$562ec2cb@ewalpole>
From: "Elizabeth Walpole" <ewalpole@austar.net.au>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:34:34 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Introduction and Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes of
	Apparel
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

-----Original Message-----
From: Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: 'Historical Costume' <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:14 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and Statutes of Apparel


>~The SCA calling the list "Eric" was another puzzlement for me for ages.
>~There's a story behind that too, but I can't remember it anymore.  I've
>~heard the "purple" clarification a few times, but not the rule yet.
>It
>~will be interesting to see what form it takes when someone eventually
>tells
>
>
>[Sg:] Got my curiosity up, which list?  Our list (h-cost)?  A tourney
>list?
>
Essentially it started because the rope around the field was red, so someone
decided let's call it Eric the Red, later it got shortened to just Eric. So
far as I know it's just a West Kingdom thing.

Well I suppose I should introduce myself as this is my first post my name is
Elizabeth Walpole of Canberra Australia (the capital for those who don't
know) Also known as Elizabeth Beaumont of Politarchopolis Lochac within the
SCA.
I'm not a particularly experienced costumer, right now I have one dress from
Simplicity's Ever
After plus size pattern 9228 (it's not on their website anymore, for some
reason) one Corset made from the instructions at http://costume.dm.net/ and
a gathered skirt in matching fabric (oh yeah and 2 Italian Camicas from
http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/ one is thigh length cotton
the other is knee length linnen, but the linnen is heavy and therefore
probably more middle to lower class)
Right now I'm working on a gown based on the portrait of Jane Seymour by
Holbein in Green cotton velvet, with red brocade underskirt & sleeves. Then
I'm going to make two dresses (an underdress and an overdress) based on
holbein's sketch of Sir Thomas More's family. And then a more English smock
to go underneath them, and then probably another under or over dress and
then who knows.
Elizabeth Walpole

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 03:40:36 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7eZHP001133
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:40:35 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7R1Uw029377
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:27:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7QxZ6027791;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:26:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (smtp.austarmetro.com.au
	[203.166.224.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7QuZ6027719
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:26:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ewalpole (dialup-86.46.194.203.acc02-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au
	[203.194.46.86])h5K7Qgpg002116
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:26:49 +1000
Message-ID: <004901c336fc$afd77f60$562ec2cb@ewalpole>
From: "Elizabeth Walpole" <ewalpole@austar.net.au>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:39:03 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I have heard (can't remember where) that in period Diamonds were frequently
painted black because they were usually cut smooth and therefore did not
sparkle like modern diamonds
take it for what it's worth
Elizabeth
-----Original Message-----
From: Cyn Bucheger <cbucheger@paclp.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener


>
>> However, there is another issue. This is the necklace she is trying to
>> recreate. it is Durer's Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman:
>> http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer35.html
>> She was planning on casting the double cone shaped pieces because they
>look
>> like some sort of dark metal in her book. However, I have seen pictures
>> where they look decidedly green like a glass or gemstone bead. Has anyone
>> seen this piece in person or a true to color representation that might be
>> able to shed some light on this? She is trying to make it as authentic as
>> possible.
>>
>
>I've made this necklace, and in every copy of it (I have several since
Durer
>is one of my favorite artists) that I have seen the cone shape beads appear
>to be black glass, which is what I used.  It looks "right", if that helps
>any
>
>Cyn
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 04:07:06 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K873HP011474
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:07:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7s3Uw001340
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:54:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7rwZ6008880;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:53:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (smtp.austarmetro.com.au
	[203.166.224.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K7rsZ6008836
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:53:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ewalpole (dialup-86.46.194.203.acc02-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au
	[203.194.46.86])h5K7rlpe006354
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:53:47 +1000
Message-ID: <005a01c33700$741d22a0$562ec2cb@ewalpole>
From: "Elizabeth Walpole" <ewalpole@austar.net.au>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:17 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It just occurred to me that that could be misread, the diamonds themselves
were not painted, just in portraits they were depicted as black.
Elizabeth Walpole
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Walpole <ewalpole@austar.net.au>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Friday, June 20, 2003 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener


>I have heard (can't remember where) that in period Diamonds were frequently
>painted black because they were usually cut smooth and therefore did not
>sparkle like modern diamonds
>take it for what it's worth
>Elizabeth
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cyn Bucheger <cbucheger@paclp.com>
>To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
>Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:48 PM
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Necklace fastener
>
>
>>
>>> However, there is another issue. This is the necklace she is trying to
>>> recreate. it is Durer's Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman:
>>> http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer35.html
>>> She was planning on casting the double cone shaped pieces because they
>>look
>>> like some sort of dark metal in her book. However, I have seen pictures
>>> where they look decidedly green like a glass or gemstone bead. Has
anyone
>>> seen this piece in person or a true to color representation that might
be
>>> able to shed some light on this? She is trying to make it as authentic
as
>>> possible.
>>>
>>
>>I've made this necklace, and in every copy of it (I have several since
>Durer
>>is one of my favorite artists) that I have seen the cone shape beads
appear
>>to be black glass, which is what I used.  It looks "right", if that helps
>>any
>>
>>Cyn
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>h-costume mailing list
>>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 06:01:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KA1LHP001439
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:01:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K9wMUw009665
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:58:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K9wHFY024283;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:58:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web60001.mail.yahoo.com (web60001.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.109.116.224])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5K9wEFY024210
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:58:14 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030620095808.61531.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [62.254.246.53] by web60001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:58:08 BST
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:58:08 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= <rachel_holliday@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Historic Costuming <historic-costuming@yahoogroups.com>,
   Tudor Fashions <tudorfashions@yahoogroups.com>,
   H-costume list <h-costume@indra.com>, HNW <h-needlework@ansteorra.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Embroidery Talk at V&A
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear All,

I have been invited back by the V&A to give another talk and demonstration on Tudor Embroidery. 
If you fancy coming along and having a look and a chat the details are as follows:

5th & 6th July
2-5pm
Gallery 123 (4th floor in the New British Galleries)

Demonstrating: blackwork, slips, goldwork and anything else I can get on the tube.

Hope to see you there.

Rachel

=====
Threads of History
www.threadsofhistory.co.uk

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 08:43:03 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCh2HP004317
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:43:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCe2Uw020272
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:40:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCe0Ft028429;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:40:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCdwFt028415
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:39:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19TLBM-00078m-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:39:56 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Introduction and Calling the list Eric? Was: Purple and
	Statutes ofApparel
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:39:53 -0700
Message-ID: <000101c33729$0e4278d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <004801c336fc$aeb28760$562ec2cb@ewalpole>
Importance: Normal
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Elizabeth and welcome! It is so cool to talk to people around the
world!




_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 08:45:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCjJHP004327
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:45:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCgFUw020408
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:42:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCgEFt029547;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:42:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com
	(w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCgBFt029529
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:42:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-6.00) id A11F320388; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:42:07 -0500
From: "Betsy Marshall" <betsy@softwareinnovation.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:42:06 -0500
Message-ID: <001d01c33729$5c24faa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
In-reply-to: <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I find myself interested in what 
you would suggest as an alternative?
Betsy



A tiny, slightly OT grump: I really wish those little
lap style inkle looms would fall out of fashion in the
SCA forever. They are not even close to anything of
the period; the original inkle loom of this type was
designed by Everett Gilmore (the guy who built my
floor loom) in the 1930s.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 08:45:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCjbHP004332
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:45:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCgbUw020428
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:42:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCgbFt029679;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:42:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao08.cox.net (lakemtao08.cox.net [68.1.17.113])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCgYFt029627
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:42:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao08.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030620124229.BQWF7627.lakemtao08.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:42:29 -0400
Message-ID: <086f01c33729$6ad003b0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <004901c336fc$afd77f60$562ec2cb@ewalpole>
Subject: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:42:31 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I know that bleach and dye remover both yellow linen, but how much (if at
all) does each weaken the fibers?

E

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 08:47:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KClTHP004339
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:47:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCiSUw020539
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:44:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCiSFt000672;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:44:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	(albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCiPFt000647
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:44:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19TLFh-0003uc-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:44:25 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:44:23 -0700
Message-ID: <000201c33729$ae873830$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030619224401.02ebeed8@127.0.0.1>
Importance: Normal
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it isn't the resulting narrow ware
that is not period, but the loom itself.

~
~Would card weaving be more appropriate? Just curious, as I have done
that a
~couple of times.
~
~Kimiko
~

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 08:55:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCtmHP004353
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:55:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCqkUw021079
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:52:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCqhFt004154;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:52:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KCqfFt004135
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:52:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail22.ureach.com (mail22.ureach.com [172.16.2.82])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11111
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:52:40 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-65.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.65])
	by mail22.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA08158
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:52:40 -0400
Message-ID: <052a01c3372a$5bf590c0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306192205320.17775-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:49:16 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" <robin@shell.nightowl.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:24 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)


>
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Beteena Paradise wrote:
>
> > Also, at the recent Heraldic Symposium in St. Louis, there was a
> > merchant selling her tablet woven and inkle woven trims and some of
> > them were unbelievably intricate. I, unfortunately, did not get her
> > name. I wish I had for I would love to order some stuff from her.
>
> I picked up her card. Her prices are excellent, and she seems quite
> cheerful about doing work to order based on swatches, so I expect I'll be
> getting some trim made to match a dress that needs it.
>
> The trim designs mostly seemed recognizably classic tablet-woven --
> ladders, boxes, etc. She had an enormous amount of trim, in cotton, wool,
> linen, and silk, in lengths ranging from garter-size to 4-yard pieces.
> Prices depended on width; I was looking for very skinny trim (1cm and
> smaller), which was mostly $10-$20 for a 4-yard length. The colors she had
> at the event were not all terribly accurate (e.g. most of the blues were
> not possible to achieve with woad/indigo) but were definitely in the
> popular range of fabric colors for the SCA, so appropriate for the buying
> crowd there.
>
> Here's the info from the card:
>
> White Wolf and the Phoenix
> M.J. Houghton (SCA name: Megan o'Donnelly)
> Inkle weaving, tablet weaving
> Custom orders welcome
> Fine handwoven trim in natural fibers
> 5412 Lakeford Lane
> Bowie, MD 20720
> 301-464-8375
> herveus@radix.net
> http://www.radix.net/~herveus
>
> The e-mail address appears to be that of her husband, Michael Houghton,
> who is Herveus d'Ormonde in the SCA. His name is also on the card, as
> apparently he makes the looms and tablets.
>
> Oh, now as I look at the website, I remember seeing some of the other
> goods -- wider decorative pieces, belts, etc. with a lot of heraldic
> designs that have significance to various SCA orders and such. I don't see
> the narrower geometric trims on the site.
>
> --Robin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 09:03:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KD3DHP004368
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:03:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KD09Uw021517
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:00:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KD087w007433;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:00:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KD027w007386
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:00:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19TLUn-0001C5-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:00:01 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving-the loom itself
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:00:01 -0700
Message-ID: <000401c3372b$dc9c5460$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10306192205320.17775-100000@shell.nightowl.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~Oh, now as I look at the website, I remember seeing some of the other
~goods -- wider decorative pieces, belts, etc. with a lot of heraldic
~designs that have significance to various SCA orders and such. I don't
see

[Sg:] Someone had asked about other looms, and this place sells them and
has them in stock (when I was looking earlier I had difficulty finding
someone who actually had them available).  I am FAR from being an
expert, but as I recall her large floor loom looks very much like the
one you see in artwork, but the smaller looms look like they are from
much later (1800's and onward).  I don't' remember seeing a small loom
in any artwork from the medieval or renaissance but this may be because
they may have been looming off their waists and there really wasn't a
loom per se.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 09:11:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KDBcHP004384
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:11:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KD8cUw022218
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:08:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KD8b7w011656;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:08:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.84])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KD8Y7w011627
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:08:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19TLd4-0002nz-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:08:34 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving-complexity and execution
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:08:33 -0700
Message-ID: <000501c3372d$0e22e610$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

~> White Wolf and the Phoenix
~> M.J. Houghton (SCA name: Megan o'Donnelly)
~> Inkle weaving, tablet weaving
~> Custom orders welcome
~> Fine handwoven trim in natural fibers
~> 5412 Lakeford Lane
~> Bowie, MD 20720
~> 301-464-8375
~> herveus@radix.net
~> http://www.radix.net/~herveus

[Sg:] Not to discredited this gal's work because it is lovely, but the
piece I was referring to is much finer in design and in execution.  Most
of the narrow wares I see today are much like the one this gal has,
nicely executed but simple by comparison.
Also I don't see very many people working with as fine a thread as must
have been used.  Tablet weaving produces a relatively thick ware as
compared to an inkled piece using the same fiber.  That may be one of
the reasons you see so many folks doing inkle weaving.  Also the pickup
work that can be done on an inkle is pretty awesome.  (The only reason I
know this is because on of my very good  friends does a lot of the
latter.)  

If I have time later today, I will post a picture of the piece I was
referring to.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 10:28:17 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KESHHP004642
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:28:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KEPIUw029507
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:25:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KEPG1Q021631;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:25:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law8-f36.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KEPE1Q021568
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:25:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:25:09 -0700
Received: from 207.96.224.159 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:25:08 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [207.96.224.159]
X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com]
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin2@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:25:08 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Law8-F36FZNnl40hQVS00036e40@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jun 2003 14:25:09.0046 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[C0989560:01C33737]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Bleach is always much harder on fibers - any kind of fiber (though some more 
than others, i.e. wool and silk dissolve in bleach).
Dye remover will be much nicer. And it's the first I hear about it yellowing 
linen (though I wouldn't be surprised if it does)


>From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
>Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
>To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
>Subject: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:42:31 -0500
>
>I know that bleach and dye remover both yellow linen, but how much (if at
>all) does each weaken the fibers?
>
>E
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 10:30:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KEUfHP004655
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:30:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KESpUw029893
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:28:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KESo1Q023600;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:28:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta03.fuse.net (mx3.fuse.net [216.68.1.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KESl1Q023567
	for <h-costume@net.indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:28:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from eyrie.fuse.net ([66.161.189.10]) by mta03.fuse.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP
          id <20030620142847.ISIW19365.mta03.fuse.net@eyrie.fuse.net>
          for <h-costume@net.indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:28:47 -0400
Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030620103257.00b06e80@pop.fuse.net>
X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:33:10 -0400
To: h-costume@net.indra.com
From: "J.E. M-C" <jemarshall@fuse.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] test
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Just testing

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 11:13:44 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KFDhHP004775
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KFBiUw004162
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:11:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KFBfJX019769;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:11:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KFBcJX019659
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:11:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com
	by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.1a7.160889e0 (4362)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:11:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: AnnBWass@aol.com
Message-ID: <1a7.160889e0.2c247e22@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:11:30 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/20/2003 10:26:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes:

> Dye remover will be much nicer. And it's the first I hear about it 
> yellowing 
> linen (though I wouldn't be surprised if it does)
> 

Dye remover is a reducing bleach.  It probably will not remove all the color, 
but should not harm the fibers, either.  I bought some blush linen with the 
hopes I could bleach it white, but not all the color was removed.  I think 
color remover works best if you are trying to strip out enough color to get a good 
re-dye job.

Ann Wass
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 11:46:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KFkJHP004884
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:46:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KFiBUw008075
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:44:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KFi9JX012224;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:44:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5KFi5JX012185
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:44:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 11606 invoked by uid 1005); 20 Jun 2003 15:43:58 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.068731 secs); 20 Jun 2003 15:43:58 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.068731 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 15:43:58 -0000
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:44:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
In-Reply-To: <1a7.160889e0.2c247e22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030620114323.B2190-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

There are period recipes for removing color from linen that involve lemon
juice; perhaps this would be something to try?  (If you have a few bushels
of lemons...)

Drea


On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 AnnBWass@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/20/2003 10:26:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Dye remover will be much nicer. And it's the first I hear about it
> > yellowing
> > linen (though I wouldn't be surprised if it does)
> >
>
> Dye remover is a reducing bleach.  It probably will not remove all the color,
> but should not harm the fibers, either.  I bought some blush linen with the
> hopes I could bleach it white, but not all the color was removed.  I think
> color remover works best if you are trying to strip out enough color to get a good
> re-dye job.
>
> Ann Wass
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 12:24:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KGOJHP004964
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:24:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KEm1Uw001966
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:48:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KElx1Q004994;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:47:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5KElt1Q004899
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:47:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Os80VWnZhyi4+qQtTWQoGwY=">; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:47:41
	PDT
Received: (from cley@juno.com) 
 by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H25HZ3CR; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:47:41 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:01:18 -0700
Message-ID: <20030620.074656.1836.0.Cley@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-8,11-12,15-17
X-Juno-Att: 0
X-Juno-RefParts: 0
From: Cynthia J Ley <cley@juno.com>
Subject: [h-cost] Eric and coifs
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Essentially it started because the rope around the field was red, so 
> someone
> decided let's call it Eric the Red, later it got shortened to just 
> Eric. So
> far as I know it's just a West Kingdom thing.

An Tir, which used to be a Principality of the West a Long Time Ago, also
did this. We still use the term.

Getting back on track, with obligatory costume content  ;) , I have a
lovely white medieval cap (coif). Does anyone know if these caps were
ever embellished? I am thinking specifically 14th century England.

Btw, if you are wearing one on a hot day, get it soaking wet. Mine's
lined with flannel. The flannel dries very slowly and it's great air
conditioning.

Arlys


________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 12:25:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KGPPHP004967
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:25:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KDeJUw025169
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:40:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KDeI7w027636;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:40:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ureach.com (mail.ureach.com [63.150.151.36])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KDeE7w027591
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:40:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail23.ureach.com (mailout.ureach.com [172.16.2.83])
	by ureach.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26145
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:40:14 -0400
Received: from TEENALAPTOP (adsl-154-0-65.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.0.65])
	by mail23.ureach.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA10439
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:40:14 -0400
Message-ID: <057001c33731$00af27b0$210110ac@TEENALAPTOP>
From: "Beteena Paradise" <bkessinger@ureach.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000501c3372d$0e22e610$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving-complexity and execution
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:36:49 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving-complexity and execution
> Also I don't see very many people working with as fine a thread as must
> have been used.  Tablet weaving produces a relatively thick ware as
> compared to an inkled piece using the same fiber.  That may be one of
> the reasons you see so many folks doing inkle weaving.  Also the pickup
> work that can be done on an inkle is pretty awesome.  (The only reason I
> know this is because on of my very good  friends does a lot of the
> latter.)
>
> If I have time later today, I will post a picture of the piece I was
> referring to.

The first woman I mentioned does tablet weaving with a single strands of
embroidery floss. Would that qualify? I have been working from memory with
regards to that picture as I don't own that book (yet!) so if you could post
it, I would be greatly appreciative.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 12:57:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KGv7HP005027
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:57:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KGt9Uw017498
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:55:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KGt6nE006126;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:55:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KGt2nE006076
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:55:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dialup-67.31.68.175.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.68.175]
	helo=earthlink.net)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19TPAC-0001xW-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:55:01 -0700
Message-ID: <3EF33C7F.6000001@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:55:27 -0400
From: AF Murphy <afmmurphy@earthlink.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tablet/card/inkle bands
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm combining a couple of replies, here...

Yes, there are people both in and out of the SCA who are doing lovely 
tablet weaving - some simple, some very intricate. I'm just learning, 
myself...

There are a number who use the very fine silks, do detailed work, some 
do brocade, etc. In fact, seeing someone weave gold brocade was my 
introduction to it. Most of them, though, are doing this for their own 
garments, and their own pleasure, not for sale. Like so much handwork 
(think blackwork, Bjarne's lace and embroidery, etc.) the delicate work 
is too labor intensive for them to market at a fair price.

I've seen Michael and MJ's work, and spoken to them a number of times. 
(No, they won't remember me... *G*) Yes, what they sell is pretty simple 
- they're not in this purely for their health, and need a product they 
can price to sell while making a semi-decent hourly wage. And their 
simplest trim is certainly more medieval than most purchased in fabric 
stores! But they can do much more intricate work - they might be willing 
to do that on a custom basis... don't know. It would, of course, cost 
more...   Most of their laddered bands are not cardwoven, but band 
woven. Standard warp-faced tabby, without the additional twining caused 
by the cards. Commonly called inkle bands. Their other patterns are 
tablet woven, and that's what she usually does while marketing, so 
people can learn what it is about.

Most of us who do this, at least seriously,  know that the "inkle loom" 
is a modern invention, though it is used to weave traditional bands. 
But we continue to use it because it is convenient. In my case, I have 
had one for years - I was a weaver long before I became interested in 
historic textiles, and still have an equal interest in modern work. They 
are easy to get, not too expensive, and sturdy. They are also easier 
than many others to throw in a bag and take someplace. A belt loom is 
even more portable, of course, but it can be hard to keep the tension 
regular, especially for a beginner, and you're not always in a position 
to tie yourself to a nearby object. The resulting narrowwork comes out 
the same, whether you use it, a box loom, or a reproduction Oseberg 
loom. There also isn't as much information as we'd like about the looms 
used... the few pictures there are often have odd perspective, or seem 
to be missing parts (Warp threads magically suspended in mid-air, 
*behind* the cards, in one, as I remember... Illustrators had no idea we 
would want these as blueprints.) So, we do what we can.

Back to lurking...

Anne

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 13:26:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KHQWHP005167
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:26:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KHOeUw020960
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:24:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KHOZnE027834;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:24:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao08.cox.net (lakemtao08.cox.net [68.1.17.113])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KHOUnE027672
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:24:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao08.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030620172425.DFVM7627.lakemtao08.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:24:25 -0400
Message-ID: <08b801c33750$cddc3ce0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030620114323.B2190-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:24:28 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It's not the lemons that would present the problem, it's the fact that I'm
in the middle of moving and have zero project room for the next month, while
I stay with relatives until I pick out our next place. =}

I have used both bleach and dye remover on linen before. There was no
noticeable reduction in strength... key word, 'noticeable.'  I don't know if
what I'm doing now may cut the garment's lifetime in half, or worse.

And yeah, both yellow the linen. The longer you leave the linen in, the more
yellow it gets. You can get a VERY bright, almost school-bus yellow that
way... at almost no cost. (Although I've never tried this with white linen.
It would probably yellow it as well, but you may not get quite so bright a
yellow.) Something to consider when you're looking for _very_ cheap and
downright unfadeable yellow dyes for linen. (One $1.50 box of color remover
is enough for ~6 yards, or maybe even more.) Be aware though that while the
fabric is soaking, contact with air can cause discolored patches.

Dye remover also turns wool a less vivid yellow; however, it does weird
things to the smell of the wool, so even though the wool doesn't feel
particularly weakened either, I have serious suspicions about permanent
harmful effects there. (The smell isn't BAD, it's just ...pungent. Kind of
like some tropical fruit, but I can't figure out which. Better than wet
goat, though.)

E



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Drea Leed" <drea@nospam>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen


> There are period recipes for removing color from linen that involve lemon
> juice; perhaps this would be something to try?  (If you have a few bushels
> of lemons...)
>
> Drea

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 14:05:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KI5cHP005254
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:05:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KI3pUw025785
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:03:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KI3np8028220;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:03:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KI3kp8028187
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:03:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19TQEj-0001JV-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:03:46 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Tablet/card/inkle bands
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:03:40 -0700
Message-ID: <000701c33756$4af04000$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <3EF33C7F.6000001@earthlink.net>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks for the thoughtful response Anne, don't just lurk so much!

Sg



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 18:01:34 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KM1YHP006837
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:01:34 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KLxeUw023490
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:59:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KLxbn3013510;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:59:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KLxVn3013416
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:59:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by keaton.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGS00A1XVR5D3@keaton.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:47:09 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
In-reply-to: <20030620114323.B2190-100000@shell.siscom.net>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030620144537.02e8eb48@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <1a7.160889e0.2c247e22@aol.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 11:44 AM 6/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>There are period recipes for removing color from linen that involve lemon
>juice; perhaps this would be something to try?  (If you have a few bushels
>of lemons...)
>
>Drea


Do you have the instructions posted somewhere? I have a friend with a large 
lemon tree with lots of fruit every year, and I have a juicer. And I have a 
backyard with lots of sunshine all day long. I am presuming the use of the 
sun to help in the bleaching.

TIA

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 19:12:39 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KNCdHP011034
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:12:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KNAcUw001056
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:10:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KNAbNp027004;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:10:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailrelay.mebtel.net (spambuster4.mebtel.net [64.40.67.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KNAXNp026974
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:10:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grics.net (66-79-58-71.dsl.dixnil.grics.net [66.79.58.71])
	by mailrelay.mebtel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A3527A7C
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:03:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3EF3A291.8020902@grics.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:10:57 -0500
From: "H. Law" <lynnx@grics.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cap and gown
References: <BB17669A.968B%gailscott@eos.net> <3EF222A5.4000000@grics.net>
	<p05100300bb17dab6b678@[136.152.197.170]>
	<000f01c336d0$33428200$3e3c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab>
In-Reply-To: <000f01c336d0$33428200$3e3c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

thank you ladies - those little "hearsay-bites just stick every now and 
then, like a "catchy" tune.  And it seems like the ones that really 
stick always seem to turn out to be BS some reporter made up...

Heather L

mls wrote:

>That's what I told people when they asked why I chose the Medical College of
>Wisconsin for my PhD.....They wear Tudor caps, not mortar boards.....and
>they gave me a stipend and covered tuition (a minor point, right?).
>
>Marie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
>To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
>Sent: Thursday, 19 June, 2003 4:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] cap and gown
>
>
>  
>
>>At 3:52 PM -0500 6/19/03, H. Law wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Oh!... Not Secret origins in this case.  I had heard somewhere that
>>>the *mortarboard* (like i graduated from HS in) was intended to look
>>>like a literal mortafboard - as in bricklayers.  It sounded pretty
>>>bizarre to me - if it *isn't* true, it'll be nice to hear that i
>>>didn't get my b.a. with a polyester imitation of a tray of concrete
>>>on my head...
>>>      
>>>
>>I believe it acquired the nickname "mortarboard" retroactively.  The
>>hat itself is a somewhat peculiar descendent of the biretta, a sort
>>of squared-off beret.
>>
>>My institution (U.C. Berkeley) has a PhD "cap" that's an octagonal
>>biretta (dark blue velvet w/real metallic tassel).  It's definitely
>>high up on the list of reasons to get a PhD at Berkeley.
>>
>>Heather
>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 22:20:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L2KvHP011531
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:20:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L2J4Uw015403
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:19:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L2IxZK026838;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:18:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail2.mn.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L2GpZK025981
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:16:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com ([65.29.26.80]) by mail2.mn.rr.com  with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75);	 Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:16:50 -0500
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030620212050.032b41e0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@smtp-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:21:32 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Embroidery Talk at V&A
In-Reply-To: <20030620095808.61531.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

ACK!  Wouldn't it just figure?  I'm not leaving for England until the 
11th!  Do tell us how it went/

Cheers,
Danielle

At 10:58 AM 6/20/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>I have been invited back by the V&A to give another talk and demonstration 
>on Tudor Embroidery.
>If you fancy coming along and having a look and a chat the details are as 
>follows:
>
>5th & 6th July
>2-5pm
>Gallery 123 (4th floor in the New British Galleries)
>
>Demonstrating: blackwork, slips, goldwork and anything else I can get on 
>the tube.
>
>Hope to see you there.
>
>Rachel

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 20 23:19:25 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L3JOHP011690
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:19:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L3GPUw018757
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:16:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L3GOTg018987;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:16:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net
	[207.172.4.61])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L3BaTg017078
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:11:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 208-58-249-226.s226.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com
	([208.58.249.226] helo=rcn.com)
	by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4)
	id 19TYmt-0007nH-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:11:35 -0400
Message-ID: <3EF3CCE5.4080909@rcn.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:11:33 -0400
From: Catelli <catelli@rcn.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: h-costume@indra.com
References: <200306201800.h5KI0bpA025997@net.indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] White Wolf & the Phoenix Re: Tablet/card/inkle bands
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

"Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
> [Sg:] Someone had asked about other looms, and this place sells them 
> and has them in stock (when I was looking earlier I had difficulty 
> findingsomeone who actually had them available).  I am FAR from being 
> an expert, but as I recall her large floor loom looks very much like 
> the one you see in artwork, but the smaller looms look like they are 
> from much later (1800's and onward).  I don't' remember seeing a small 
> loom in any artwork from the medieval or renaissance but this may be 
> because they may have been looming off their waists and there really 
> wasn't a loom per se.



I've seen the documentation White Wolf & the Phoenix have for the open-sided
small loom; it was a 15th century illumination or woodcut (I didn't get the
cite, sorry), but the style looked, iirc, like the famous picture of a woman
tracing an embroidery pattern onto cloth held on a picture-stretcher-style
frame.
Anyway, they did not develop the design out of thin air.

If anyone wishes to, I'm sure they'd give the cite for the picture of the
open frame style small loom.


I had believed the box loom was the major form of band loom both in the
medieval period and later until at least the industrial revolution, when
mechanical looms became the norm.
The odd-ball "pair of balusters" frame is also documentable to c. 1400-50.
And backstrap of various forms also possible.  
(but it hurts my back.)


Ann in CT

p.s. Dawn, thanks so much for the exact description of the inkle loom
originator. I had known 20th century, but not by any reliable source.  AC



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 00:01:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L41MHP011772
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:01:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L3xbUw022344
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:59:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L3xZM2011926;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:59:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com (web80409.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.64])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5L3twM2010423
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:56:01 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030621035553.92858.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:55:53 PDT
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:55:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030620114323.B2190-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

--- Drea Leed <drea@nospam> wrote:
> There are period recipes for removing color from
> linen that involve lemon
> juice; perhaps this would be something to try?  (If
> you have a few bushels
> of lemons...)

I don't know if anyone else has answered this, but
yes, lemon juice does work, as does buttermilk (it's
also acidic). Both work particularly well if you put
the linen in the sun and let it dry, then repeat the
process until your linen is the whiteness you want.

I seem to remember seeing a program once on PBS
(Connections?) that the buttermilk/sun method was used
to bleach linens until somebody invented chlorine
bleach in the 19th century.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 00:10:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4AWHP011797
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:10:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L48lUw022929
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:08:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L48kM2015944;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:08:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com (web80409.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.64])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5L48hM2015888
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:08:43 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030621040838.95497.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:08:38 PDT
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <08b801c33750$cddc3ce0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- E House <formfunction@cox.net> wrote:
> It's not the lemons that would present the problem,
> it's the fact that I'm
> in the middle of moving and have zero project room
> for the next month, while
> I stay with relatives until I pick out our next
> place. =}
> 
> I have used both bleach and dye remover on linen
> before. There was no
> noticeable reduction in strength... key word,
> 'noticeable.'  I don't know if
> what I'm doing now may cut the garment's lifetime in
> half, or worse.
> 
> And yeah, both yellow the linen. The longer you
> leave the linen in, the more
> yellow it gets. You can get a VERY bright, almost
> school-bus yellow that
> way... at almost no cost. (Although I've never tried
> this with white linen.
> It would probably yellow it as well, but you may not
> get quite so bright a
> yellow.)

OK, either I'm completely weird or the water in
Northern California is, because I've stripped the
color and bleached miles (or more than 100 yards) of
linen over the past 10 years, both originally
unbleached and commercially bleached, and I can
honestly say that up to this point I've never had
linen turn yellow from anything except yellow dye.
I've used Rit dye remover to strip color (not very
effective) before redying linen to the color I need. I
just finished bleaching out 10 yards of unbleached
linen with Clorox, and it's all white--not the optic
white that one gets with commercially bleached linen,
but a good warm white. I used 1 cup per yard of fabric
in a full washer along with soap, on hot. Soaked the
fabric for 30 minutes, then washed, then repeated the
entire process again.

I really can't say if the fabric is weaker, or doesn't
hold up as well, as Faire shirts (what all this white
linen is destined for) take a tremendous amount of
abuse during a run. However, it seems to me that the
last batch of shirts lasted about 5 years--not bad for
something that's getting worn every weekend and washed
every week.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 00:28:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4SvHP011818
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:28:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4RCUw024332
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:27:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4RBM2023808;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:27:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao06.cox.net (lakemtao06.cox.net [68.1.17.115])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4R9M2023777
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:27:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao06.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030621042703.LFK23505.lakemtao06.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:27:03 -0400
Message-ID: <090201c337ad$6054dcb0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030621040838.95497.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:27:07 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It may have something to do with the amount of time and the method, then. I
use a big ole plastic vat (~50 gallons? not sure exactly) for all my dyeing,
etc, projects. In order to yellow the linen, here's what I've done in the
past.

Bleach:
About a cup of bleach to a ~40 gallons of tepid water. Cover, leave
overnight, stirring occasionally. The yellow is very much a sunshine color;
very saturated.

Dye Remover:
1-2 boxes in ~40 gallons of 125 degrees water. Weight it down so that it's
all submerged, cover, and leave overnight, stirring regularly. The yellow is
darker and has a bit more orange and brown to it, and the places that are
exposed to air turn brownish-green.

With the dye remover, you will see the water itself turning very yellow the
longer you leave it; I expect that this has something to do with the
yellowing effect. It takes at least an hour or so for the yellowing to
really start.

For a test with the dye remover, you might put a teaspoon-full into a bowl
with a linen swatch, then microwave it for a couple of minutes. Let it sit
out a couple of hours, and you'll start to see the effect; faster because
it'll be more concentrated. By the way, the only dye remover I've tried this
with is of the same chemical formula as the Rit stuff.

E

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 00:43:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4hnHP011843
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:43:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4g2Uw025572
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:42:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4g0M2000956;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:42:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web80402.mail.yahoo.com (web80402.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.79.57])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5L4fvM2000902
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:41:57 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030621044152.91122.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.205.185.216] by web80402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:41:52 PDT
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <090201c337ad$6054dcb0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


--- E House <formfunction@cox.net> wrote:
> It may have something to do with the amount of time
> and the method, then. I
> use a big ole plastic vat (~50 gallons? not sure
> exactly) for all my dyeing,
> etc, projects. In order to yellow the linen, here's
> what I've done in the
> past.
> 
> Bleach:
> About a cup of bleach to a ~40 gallons of tepid
> water. Cover, leave
> overnight, stirring occasionally. The yellow is very
> much a sunshine color;
> very saturated.
> 
> Dye Remover:
> 1-2 boxes in ~40 gallons of 125 degrees water.
> Weight it down so that it's
> all submerged, cover, and leave overnight, stirring
> regularly. The yellow is
> darker and has a bit more orange and brown to it,
> and the places that are
> exposed to air turn brownish-green.
> 
> With the dye remover, you will see the water itself
> turning very yellow the
> longer you leave it; I expect that this has
> something to do with the
> yellowing effect. It takes at least an hour or so
> for the yellowing to
> really start.
> 
> For a test with the dye remover, you might put a
> teaspoon-full into a bowl
> with a linen swatch, then microwave it for a couple
> of minutes. Let it sit
> out a couple of hours, and you'll start to see the
> effect; faster because
> it'll be more concentrated. By the way, the only dye
> remover I've tried this
> with is of the same chemical formula as the Rit
> stuff.
> 
> E

Thanks for posting what you're doing. It sounds like
you're using very dilute solutions. OTOH, I'm
specifically trying to get the color off/out of the
fiber, so I'm using much stronger solutions: for 10
yards of fabric, about 10 cups of bleach in 20 gallons
of water (I'm guessing on how much water my washing
machine holds). Also (and this may be a big
difference), I add laundry detergent when I'm
bleaching, and that may be keeping the linen from
yellowing.

Dawn 

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 01:00:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L50eHP011874
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:00:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4unUw026539
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:56:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4umLn007027;
	Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:56:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L4ujLn006947
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:56:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao05.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030621045639.UUFE28938.lakemtao05.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:56:39 -0400
Message-ID: <090b01c337b1$830f1a50$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030621044152.91122.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:56:43 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I think this probably is the big difference, that and the amount of time,
which is very important--I've done it with all sorts of different ratios,
and the added bleach or dye remover just makes it a bit faster. I just
dilute it more because A) the bleach smell makes me sneeze and B) the dye
remover's cost can add up quick, and why get more if it works with less?

The detergent doesn't budge the yellowing AFTER it's yellowed, but putting
it in at the same time might well be what stops it from happening. What type
of detergent do you use?

E


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dawn Jacobson" <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen

> Also (and this may be a big
> difference), I add laundry detergent when I'm
> bleaching, and that may be keeping the linen from
> yellowing.
>
> Dawn

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 02:09:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L69kHP015122
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:09:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L66sUw002784
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:06:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L66q9C009025;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:06:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5L66n9C008923
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:06:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pavilion (213-78-99-51.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.51])
	3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id AEM74028;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:06:33 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <015201c337bb$d1faea40$24a24ed5@pavilion>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030621040838.95497.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:10:30 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

A possibility might be a diference in the dyes used o the linen too. Most
reactive dyed cellulosics won't come white even commercially, so to get the
white it is possible that the fabric was direct dyed.

Stripping always weakens the fabrics, one reason we always got a majory
telling off if a dyehouse (commercial) batch went wrong, if humanly possible
you would over dye to the colour you wanted. It also messes up the dye sites
not a problem I guess if you only want white though !

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 09:57:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LDvSHP016082
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:57:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LDtfUw029323
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:55:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LDtTmU006672;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:55:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LDtPmU006612
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:55:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p90-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.192.90] 
	by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19Tipt-0005xJ-00; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:55:22 +1200
Message-ID: <3EF463C5.9000708@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:55:17 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030619112505.Y82717-100000@shell.siscom.net>
In-Reply-To: <20030619112505.Y82717-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Ok, very quick post to say I got my burgundian finished (to wear, seams 
etc still wanting to be hand finished;) ) and that with my Elizabeth 
gown and Mary of Hungary gown got me an Award of Arms... and it's just 
fortunate that I chose an sca name this week;)

So... photos tomorrow but I just had to share my excitement;)

michaela
http://glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 10:12:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LECDHP016128
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:12:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEARUw000535
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:10:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEAPmU013057;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:10:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web9401.mail.yahoo.com (web9401.mail.yahoo.com
	[216.136.129.107])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5LEALmU013048
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:10:22 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030621141021.60740.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.201.200.153] by web9401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:10:21 PDT
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: KATHRYN WOLTERS <albrakat7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EF463C5.9000708@ihug.co.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Congrats, Michaela:)
Albra

michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Ok, very quick post to say I got my burgundian finished (to wear, seams 
etc still wanting to be hand finished;) ) and that with my Elizabeth 
gown and Mary of Hungary gown got me an Award of Arms... and it's just 
fortunate that I chose an sca name this week;)

So... photos tomorrow but I just had to share my excitement;)

michaela
http://glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 10:13:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEDlHP016139
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:13:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEC3Uw000647
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEC3mU013838;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEC1mU013812
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Tj5x-0005f2-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:11:58 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:11:53 -0700
Message-ID: <000001c337ff$13b7d9f0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Website update...
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I have had several inquiries from folks who have linked to website.
Just thought I'd let everyone know it is down for re-construction.  I
won't be getting it back up for a week or so since I am leaving town.
The only page that is working right now is the Tunic Tales Diary.  It is
done and I have posted a picture of the tunic lying flat out.  I just
shipped it off to its new owner and will post pictures when he sends
them to me.
 
Thanks for your patience.
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 10:14:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEEfHP016145
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:14:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LECvUw000791
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LECtmU014445;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LECpmU014350
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LoreleiMorte@aol.com
	by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.176.1c200af2 (3874)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:12:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com
Message-ID: <176.1c200af2.2c25c1cf@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:12:31 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/21/2003 8:57:05 AM Central Standard Time, 
thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:

> Ok, very quick post to say I got my burgundian finished (to wear, seams 
> etc still wanting to be hand finished;) ) and that with my Elizabeth 
> gown and Mary of Hungary gown got me an Award of Arms... and it's just 
> fortunate that I chose an sca name this week;)
> 

Hey Congrats My Lady (with the capitol "L"), :) !

-Sarra Wryght
Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 21 10:15:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEF1HP016152
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:15:01 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEDHUw000840
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:13:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEDGmU014580;
	Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:13:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LEDEmU014565
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:13:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Tj7B-0006rO-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:13:13 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:13:12 -0700
Message-ID: <000501c337ff$40f51ea0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
In-Reply-To: <3EF463C5.9000708@ihug.co.nz>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Congratulations...could you explain a little about what the award is for
us SCA (still) 'ignorants'.

Sg

~-----Original Message-----
~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On
~Behalf Of michaela
~Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 6:55 AM
~To: Historical Costume
~Subject: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
~
~Ok, very quick post to say I got my burgundian finished (to wear, seams
~etc still wanting to be hand finished;) ) and that with my Elizabeth
~gown and Mary of Hungary gown got me an Award of Arms... and it's just
~fortunate that I chose an sca name this week;)
~
~So... photos tomorrow but I just had to share my excitement;)
~
~michaela
~http://glittersweet.com
~
~
~_______________________________________________
~h-costume mailing list
~h-costume@mail.indra.com
~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:12:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKCOHP006987
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:12:24 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKA5Uw000737
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:10:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NK9wap025210;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:09:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.46])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LKYPZm008357
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:34:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58]
	helo=mycomputer)
	by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Tp45-000640-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:34:25 -0700
From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:34:24 -0700
Message-ID: <000201c33834$8151c360$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Test
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Is anyone out there?  I don't think I have ever seen the list this quiet
unless there is something wrong..
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:16:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKGxHP007001
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:16:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKF9Uw001431
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:15:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKF8ap029205;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:15:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.113])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5M2Jx2T003592
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:20:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from comcast.net
 (pcp03509979pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.54.185.111])
 by mtaout03.icomcast.net
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGV0038O2H0BM@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com;
 Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:19:54 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:19:54 -0400
From: Cozit / Liz <cozit@comcast.net>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-id: <3EF5124A.2090401@comcast.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2)
 Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Subject: [h-cost] new website on Smithsonian's collection
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Ok, not all the collection... but I just noticed today that the Museum 
of American History has added a page to their website recently with 
pictures and information on a fair number of the dresses in their 
collection.  http://americanhistory2.si.edu/costume/  (you can get there 
through www.si.edu and follow the links to the museum... there's a link 
on the front page right now)

-Elisabeth


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:20:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKKvHP007014
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:20:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKJAUw002000
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:19:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKJ8ap002588;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:19:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net
	[62.241.160.193])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5M74CAt010726
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:04:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151])
	by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3DB3E4C00176
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:04:06 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <001101c3388c$7a2185a0$97725651@bella>
From: "Linda Walton" <linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:04:08 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-DCC-WEiAPG-Metrics: net.indra.com 1072; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Subject: [h-cost] Copper Age Shoe Construction
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

"Prehistoric 'shoes' better than modern hiking boots":-
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_792377.html?menu=news.quirkies

Linda Walton
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:23:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKNLHP007032
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:23:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKLXUw002514
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:21:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKLUap004785;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:21:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5MB2dxY014387
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 05:02:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p753-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.194.245] 
	by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19U2cD-0000nu-00; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:02:34 +1200
Message-ID: <3EF58CCB.2040406@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:02:35 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
References: <20030621141021.60740.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030621141021.60740.qmail@web9401.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Firstly:
http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm for new piccies:)

KATHRYN WOLTERS wrote:
> Congrats, Michaela:)
> Albra

Thank you:)

LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote:
 > Hey Congrats My Lady (with the capitol "L"), :) !
 >
 > -Sarra Wryght

*grin* Thank you:)

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
 > Congratulations...could you explain a little about what the award is for
 > us SCA (still) 'ignorants'.
 >
 > Sg

lol! Well honestly I'm not much better.. but it's the start of status 
within the sca:)
http://www.usd.edu/socrean/SCASLANG.HTML seems quite good at explaining:)

Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote:
 > Vivat!!
 > What is your SCA name?
 >
 > Dianne
 >
 > aka Lady Laurensa de Chambord

Thank you :) It's Mine Bruysz if the heralds accept;) They should I got 
both names from sites that were created by knowelegable people:) Both 
15th C lowlands:) It should work, I'll be fighting for something as 
close to that as possible if there is a problem:)

Now to work on a device;)

michaela
http://glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:28:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKSvHP007052
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:28:57 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKRBUw003286
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:27:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKR9ap008986;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:27:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5MErc4J011753
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:53:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (from eliz@localhost)
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h5MErcuf011752
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:53:38 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:53:38 -0600
From: Elizabeth Lear <eliz@indra.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
Message-ID: <20030622145338.GC21857@net.indra.com>
References: <3EF463C5.9000708@ihug.co.nz>
	<000501c337ff$40f51ea0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <000501c337ff$40f51ea0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 07:13:12AM -0700, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> Congratulations...could you explain a little about what the award is for
> us SCA (still) 'ignorants'.

An Award of Arms (AoA) is given at the pleasure of the Crown,
typically for service or skills. It is generally the first award
anyone receives within the SCA, and says basically "we think you
understand our game and are doing a good job playing it."  The
recipients are known as armigers, and may use the title Lord or Lady
(or the equivalent in their persona's language) before their name.

						...eliz

-- 
Please allow up to 3 weeks for delivery.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:30:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKUiHP007060
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:30:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKSmUw003601
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:28:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKSkap010342;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:28:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5MHlJcd019754
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:47:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-61.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[67.124.118.61])h5MHlD8K010748
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:47:17 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030622104206.02403eb8@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:44:59 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
In-Reply-To: <090b01c337b1$830f1a50$0400a8c0@compaqub>
References: <20030621044152.91122.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 11:56 PM 6/20/2003 -0500, E wrote:
>I think this probably is the big difference, that and the amount of time,
>which is very important--I've done it with all sorts of different ratios,
>and the added bleach or dye remover just makes it a bit faster. I just
>dilute it more because A) the bleach smell makes me sneeze and B) the dye
>remover's cost can add up quick, and why get more if it works with less?
>
>The detergent doesn't budge the yellowing AFTER it's yellowed, but putting
>it in at the same time might well be what stops it from happening. What type
>of detergent do you use?

The standard institutional laundry detergent from Costco. It doesn't have 
any "brighteners" in it, so it's just standard laundry "soap."

Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:33:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKXoHP007072
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:33:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKVwUw004204
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:31:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKVvap012978;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:31:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta02ps.bigpond.com (mta02ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.134])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5MMQdfY021679
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:26:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.25.78]) by mta02ps.bigpond.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55)
          with SMTP id HGWMC200.5WJ for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun
          2003 08:26:26 +1000 
Received: from cwpp-p-203-54-206-141.prem.tmns.net.au ([203.54.206.141]) by
	psmam04.bigpond.com(MAM $Name: REL_3_3_2b $ 92/34246827); 23 Jun 2003 08:26:28
Message-ID: <007501c3390d$54233f20$8dce36cb@clarke>
From: "Claire Clarke" <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030621035553.92858.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:26:28 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-DCC-Misty-Metrics: net.indra.com 1170; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dawn Jacobson" <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen


>> 
> I don't know if anyone else has answered this, but
> yes, lemon juice does work, as does buttermilk (it's
> also acidic). Both work particularly well if you put
> the linen in the sun and let it dry, then repeat the
> process until your linen is the whiteness you want.
> 
>
If the sun in your area is strong enough you can use just the
sun and water. It's not very fast, but it's useful for toning things
down. I had some red linen that was waaaay too bright so I
hung it on the line for a week or so and squirted it with the hose
whenever it started to dry out. Toned it down nicely. Also
I have a shift that started out cream and has slowly become
white simply through washing and hanging on the line. Of
course, we do have an awful lot of UV light around here...

Claire
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:38:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKcpHP007250
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:38:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKawUw005182
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:36:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKauap017242;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:36:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-out.comcast.net (smtp-out.comcast.net [24.153.64.115])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5N3OxbQ001264
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:24:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from comcast.net
 (pcp03486178pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.86.79.197])
 by mtaout02.icomcast.net
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HGX00G4X02T7N@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for
 h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:23:17 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:25:04 -0500
From: "Linda J. Thompson" <LindaJThompson@comcast.net>
To: h-costume@net.indra.com
Message-id: <3EF67310.3080209@comcast.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2)
 Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01
X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Subject: [h-cost] dye,bleach and linen...
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

What color is it that you are trying to remove?  I have used bleach with linen in the wash 
for years and never had it yellow one bit.  And I have soaked it over night.  (not a 
colored linen, but a dingy white linen that had an awful unknown stain in it)... It never 
yellowed.  Is it a fairly dark color you are trying to remove, that might have a yellow 
base color in it?
-- 
Linda Thompson

Attitude Is Everything
http://corsetsandcostumes.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:39:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKd3HP007260
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:39:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKbDUw005222
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:37:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKbBap017466;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:37:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5N3iDbQ009594
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:44:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from host-66-81-243-206.rev.o1.com ([66.81.243.206]
	helo=[66.81.241.224])
	by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)	id 19UIFY-0008Eu-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:44:13 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org
Message-Id: <p05100310bb1c2534c4c1@[66.81.241.224]>
In-Reply-To: <000501c337ff$40f51ea0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
References: <000501c337ff$40f51ea0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:43:01 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Chris Laning <claning@igc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Subject: [h-cost] RE: I got an award of arms!
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Twenty more people will probably chime in and explain this, but....

At 7:13 AM -0700 6/21/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
>Congratulations...could you explain a little about what the award is for
>us SCA (still) 'ignorants'.

It's usually the first award people get in the SCA. An Award of Arms 
means they are formally given the "right to bear arms" (although in 
many cases they've already registered a personal coat of arms and are 
using them) and the right to be called "Lord" or "Lady." (Which isn't 
a particularly historical use of the titles, but after thirty years 
of the SCA it's a bit too late to change the custom...)

Usually you get an Award of Arms when you have been in the SCA for at 
least a few months (though it's sometimes years....) and for one 
reason or another you come to the attention of the current King and 
Queen. Sometimes this is because you've done Good Things, sometimes 
it's because someone else has written a letter of recommendation (my 
entire local group was in on a plot to get me mine, which was a bit 
embarrassing!).

One's first award is often a very cherished memory, so this one means 
a lot to many SCA members. Also in most kingdoms you get some sort of 
nifty hand-illuminated certificate with it (sometimes, but not 
always, hand-calligraphed as well).
-- 

"Lady Christian de Holacombe," a.k.a.
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     <claning@igc.org>
+    Davis, California
_________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:51:20 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKp9HP007319
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:51:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKn2Uw006740
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:49:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKmxap026366;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:48:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5N8CrWa028701
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:12:53 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:12:48 BST
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:12:48 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Subject: [h-cost] 
	Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern is supposed
	to be?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I just surfed through new patterns (looking for a nice new wide trouser
pattern) and came across the new simplicity catalogue. Could anyone tell me
wich period the following pattern is supposed to be?

http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5444/5444.jpg

Cheers!

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:52:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKqDHP007324
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:52:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKe7Wk005664
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:50:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKNvap006778;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:24:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com
	(w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5MD2wRs001540
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 07:02:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-6.00) id A9001403C0; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:02:56 -0500
From: "Betsy Marshall" <betsy@softwareinnovation.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:02:55 -0500
Message-ID: <005001c338be$993cb4a0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <3EF463C5.9000708@ihug.co.nz>
X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I doubt it was for "just" those two dresses- all the stuff you have
shared with us looks really good to me!
Congratulations (or as we say in Ansteorra )"Vivat!"

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of michaela
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:55 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!

Ok, very quick post to say I got my burgundian finished (to wear, seams 
etc still wanting to be hand finished;) ) and that with my Elizabeth 
gown and Mary of Hungary gown got me an Award of Arms... and it's just 
fortunate that I chose an sca name this week;)

So... photos tomorrow but I just had to share my excitement;)

michaela
http://glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 16:59:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKx0HP007343
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:59:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKvAUw007816
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:57:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKv8SX002382;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:57:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
	[66.163.168.183])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5NIbxmQ014522
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:37:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (HELO AngelaFLazear)
	(angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login)
	by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP;
	23 Jun 2003 18:37:59 -0000
Message-ID: <008b01c339b6$91ebb2c0$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear>
From: "Angela Lazear" <angelalazear@sbcglobal.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:37:58 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-DCC-coop.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1167; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Arnold's Patterns of Fashion on EBay
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h5NKx0HP007343
Status: RO

List,

There is a copy of Arnolds' Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 closing in a few hours on ebay.  It's at only $11.00 ish right now for anyone who may have been desiring a copy and unable to afford its usually hefty price tag.

angela


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2328495945&category=11801

Patterns for Fashion -Large Rare Guide
Patterns of Fashion : The Cut and Construction of Clothes for Men and Women c1560-1620 by Janet Arnold 1985 Large Softcover (14x10) 128 pg. A detailed and extensive selection of patterns and information on men's and women's fashions of the time. Contains a pictorial outline of costumes and patterns taken from original specimens with detailed construction information, fabric information, and instructions on using the patterns for full scale work.
In Good condition. Covers are worn, first few pages have watermarks, some other pages are a little creased. Fair condition. 

Winner to pay $4.00 shipping & handling Book (Media) Rate or e-mail us for Priority shipping rate based on zip code*. International, including Canada, shipping rates higher. 
Payment by Paypal, Billpoint or Bidpay -Cashiers Check, Money Order or Personal Check. (U.S. currency only) 
*Win two auctions or more and get discounted shipping.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 17:48:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLmnHP007533
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:48:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLl0Uw019044
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:47:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLkwSX014318;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:46:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com
	[66.96.128.118])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5NKrWap029617
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:53:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 5825 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 20:45:15 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO costumepress.com) (67.31.141.57)
  by www19.fatcow.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 20:45:15 -0000
Message-ID: <3EF768C2.E94DA06A@costumepress.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:53:23 -0600
From: Mary Denise Smith <editor@costumepress.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern is
	 supposedto be?
References: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

1850s, but it could be used through the 1860s if not interpreted as
"current" fashion.

MD/Marged


N Kipar wrote:
> Could anyone tell me which period the following pattern is supposed to be?
> 
> http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5444/5444.jpgg
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 17:49:01 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLn0HP007539
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:49:00 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLlDUw019094
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:47:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLlBSX014476;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:47:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com
	(w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NKsvap000709
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:54:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-6.00) id A9203604A0; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:54:56 -0500
From: "Betsy Marshall" <betsy@softwareinnovation.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Test
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:54:56 -0500
Message-ID: <002601c339c9$b407b6c0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <000201c33834$8151c360$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I also notice that my messages skip from Saturday 6/21 @ 09:15 to Monday
6/23 @ 15:23. did I miss much?
Betsy

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 3:34 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Test

Is anyone out there?  I don't think I have ever seen the list this quiet
unless there is something wrong..
 
Sg
 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 17:49:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLnpHP007543
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:49:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLm7Uw019325
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:48:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLm6SX015203;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:48:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5NKxfSX004739
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:59:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCvq9o5j79E/1SRbJwKsybpNE0AyH5R18vg==">; Mon, 23 Jun 2003
	16:59:19 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H3DWGPYY; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:59:19 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:29:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern is
	supposed to be?
Message-ID: <20030623.152902.-237132987.3.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,8-13,15-35,37-45
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Nicole,


Although the brim on the hat may be a tad wide-ish, the dress is clearly
based on  designs from the early/mid 1860's. It looks like they are
adding to their Civil War era collection again. If it's by Martha McCain,
then the design is probably pretty good as the rest of the ones she has
done have been models of authenticity (considering they are coming from a
large commercial pattern co. and not a small specialist).


Karen


On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:12:48 +0100 (BST) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?=
<nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com> writes:
> I just surfed through new patterns (looking for a nice new wide 
> trouser
> pattern) and came across the new simplicity catalogue. Could anyone 
> tell me
> wich period the following pattern is supposed to be?
> 
> http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5444/5444.jpg
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Nicole
> 
> =====
> Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can 
> you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in 
> judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien
> 
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
> URL: http://www.kipar.org
> 
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE 
> Yahoo!
> Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 17:50:15 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLoFHP007546
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:50:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLmQUw019458
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:48:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLmPSX015455;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:48:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com
	(w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NL1uSX007046
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:01:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com with
	ESMTP  (SMTPD32-6.00) id AAC3340400; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:01:55 -0500
From: "Betsy Marshall" <betsy@softwareinnovation.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:01:55 -0500
Message-ID: <002e01c339ca$ada49f90$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <005001c338be$993cb4a0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I swear I sent that Saturday morning!

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Betsy Marshall
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:03 AM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: RE: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!

I doubt it was for "just" those two dresses- all the stuff you have
shared with us looks really good to me!
Congratulations (or as we say in Ansteorra )"Vivat!"

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of michaela
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:55 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] I got an award of arms!

Ok, very quick post to say I got my burgundian finished (to wear, seams 
etc still wanting to be hand finished;) ) and that with my Elizabeth 
gown and Mary of Hungary gown got me an Award of Arms... and it's just 
fortunate that I chose an sca name this week;)

So... photos tomorrow but I just had to share my excitement;)

michaela
http://glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 17:50:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLogHP007550
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:50:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLkAUw018887
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:46:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLk2SX013487;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:46:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from www19.networkshosting.com (www19.networkshosting.com
	[66.96.128.118])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5NKrUap029606
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:53:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 5825 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 20:45:15 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO costumepress.com) (67.31.141.57)
  by www19.fatcow.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 20:45:15 -0000
Message-ID: <3EF768C2.E94DA06A@costumepress.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:53:23 -0600
From: Mary Denise Smith <editor@costumepress.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-NSCPCD (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern is
	 supposedto be?
References: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

1850s, but it could be used through the 1860s if not interpreted as
"current" fashion.

MD/Marged


N Kipar wrote:
> Could anyone tell me which period the following pattern is supposed to be?
> 
> http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5444/5444.jpgg
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 18:32:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NMWlHP007677
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:32:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NMP2Ze026036
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:31:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NMFYKc006623;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:15:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NLZnSY004921
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:35:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (from eliz@localhost)
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h5NLZnFv004916
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:35:49 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:35:49 -0600
From: Elizabeth Lear <eliz@indra.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern is
	supposed to be?
Message-ID: <20030623213548.GL5017@net.indra.com>
References: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5444/5444.jpg

It says American Civil War to me, circa 1860-1870, by way of "Gone
With the Wind", but it's not my specialty.

						...eliz

-- 
Please allow up to 3 weeks for delivery.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 19:17:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NNHDHP007792
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:17:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NNFOUw002579
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:15:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NNFMsf018317;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:15:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net
	[204.127.131.117])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NMcQKc024292
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:38:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.worldnet.att.net
	(h-68-164-131-246.lsanca54.covad.net[68.164.131.246])
	by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP
	id <20030623223820113001vuaee>
	(Authid: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:38:21 +0000
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030623152552.00a561d0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
X-Sender: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:38:13 -0700
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net
In-Reply-To: <200306232149.h5NLnBSY016017@net.indra.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] Re :Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern is
 supposed	to be?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 02:49 PM 6/23/2003, you wrote:
>Message: 10
>Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:12:48 +0100 (BST)
>From: N Kipar<nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
>Subject: [h-cost]       Does anyone know which year (decade) this new
>         pattern is supposed     to be?
>To: H-Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
>Message-ID: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>I just surfed through new patterns (looking for a nice new wide trouser
>pattern) and came across the new simplicity catalogue. Could anyone tell me
>wich period the following pattern is supposed to be?
>
>http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5444/5444.jpg
>
>Cheers!

The notes in the pattern book claim the dress is 1862 to 1865, calling it a 
Civil War Summer dress. I'm kind of skeptical. It's closer ti 1850's, but 
even at that it misses in a few places. The bodice is pretty good, but 
there's this gather thing at the center back waist, and the skirt has this 
single huge ruffle at the knee. Like the prarie skirts from the 1970's? 
It's not the tiered skirt effect like from the 1850's, but a single ruffle 
falling from knee length to the ground. It feels like someone slipped up on 
this pattern. Odd, because all the other Martha McCain patterns have been 
pretty dead on accurate.

Here's a link to a picture of the entire dress: 
http://www.simplicity.com/designFrame.cfm?designId=7967&design=5442

Another thing I find odd is that they've got the sash being worn both ways. 
Frontways doesn't seem right to me, for the 1860's.

This whole pattern seems off, to me

Julie 

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 19:17:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NNHxHP007796
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:17:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NNGDUw002704
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:16:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NNGCsf018851;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:16:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5NMeuKc026217
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:40:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 1309 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 22:40:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.inreach.com) (209.142.2.51)
  by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 22:40:55 -0000
Received: from 162.119.64.111
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com)
        by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP;
        Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:40:55 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <36861.162.119.64.111.1056408055.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:40:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new website on Smithsonian's collection
From: <dch@inreach.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EF5124A.2090401@comcast.net>
References: <3EF5124A.2090401@comcast.net>
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.9)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Ok, not all the collection... but I just noticed today that the Museum
> of American History has added a page to their website recently with
> pictures and information on a fair number of the dresses in their
> collection.  http://americanhistory2.si.edu/costume/  (you can get there
>  through www.si.edu and follow the links to the museum... there's a link
>  on the front page right now)

This is so cool!!   I have been wanting to become more familiar with the
different textiles that were prevalent from each period and this should
help me alot!

 Thanks for sharing!

Diana


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 20:17:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O0HvHP007978
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:17:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O0G5Uw009341
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:16:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O0G4po003525;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:16:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5NNGisf019181
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:16:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.61])
 by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18
 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HGY0014RJBUHJ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:14:27 -0700
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern
	is supposed to be?
In-reply-to: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030623160425.00b29b98@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 09:12 AM 6/23/2003 +0100, Nicole wrote:
>Could anyone tell me
>wich period the following pattern is supposed to be?
>
>http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5444/5444.jpg
>
>Cheers!

Hi Nicole!

That particular pattern is for the hat and the wrap, which appears to be 
from the June 1855 issue of Godey's. The dress underneath is probably from 
the same period; I put a mental block on it because I detest the ruffles 
that go around the neck and down the front. And yes, this is another of 
Martha McCain's patterns.

Note to everyone--the next time you're in the fabric store, check out the 
Spring/Summer Simplicity Costume and Crafts  Catalog. There's a photo of an 
absolutely stunning rendition of the 1862 Day Dress (#7212) in plaid 
taffeta (and I think it's silk taffeta).

Simplicity seems to have gotten the clue--show the patterns done in the 
fabrics historical costumers would use, and you sell more patterns. Now if 
only the fabric stores would start carrying the fabrics...

Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 20:48:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O0mDHP008044
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:48:14 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O0kOUw012134
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:46:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O0kMpo019036;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:46:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O0ACpo000203
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:10:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 556C110EF3E
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:10:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <00fe01c339e4$f6de33f0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000501c337ff$40f51ea0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<p05100310bb1c2534c4c1@[66.81.241.224]>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: I got an award of arms!
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:10:01 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Sometimes this is because you've done Good Things, sometimes
> it's because someone else has written a letter of recommendation (my
> entire local group was in on a plot to get me mine, which was a bit
> embarrassing!).

I received mine for making hand-painted canvas floor cloths to go in front
of the thrones of the Royalty of the East. They had been on the Royal wish
list for ages, and they were fun to make!
>
> One's first award is often a very cherished memory, so this one means
> a lot to many SCA members. Also in most kingdoms you get some sort of
> nifty hand-illuminated certificate with it (sometimes, but not
> always, hand-calligraphed as well).

Mine is lovely--and it was illuminated and calligraphed by a dear friend,
Lady Ysabella du Draguignan. It's in a temporary frame on my living room
wall. I had to get it up right away, there are just too many short people
with dirty hands running about my house!

Laurensa
> --
>
> "Lady Christian de Holacombe," a.k.a.
> _________________________________________________________
> O    Chris Laning
> |     <claning@igc.org>
> +    Davis, California
> _________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 21:14:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1E7HP008142
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:14:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1B4Uw014222
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:11:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1B3jD001330;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:11:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O12QjD027086
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:02:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a243.in-tch.com [66.62.107.43])
	by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h5O0hWf07255
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:43:32 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <3EF7A383.C3743F75@in-tch.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:04:03 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America}  (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Test
References: <000201c33834$8151c360$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

We're probably all deep into page-whatever of the newest Harry
Potter.....<g>
I finished mine Saturday.  Now I can go back to my various needlework
and costuming projects, and find a new place to live! (I hate
moving....blech!)
--sue

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Is anyone out there?  I don't think I have ever seen the list this quiet
> unless there is something wrong..
> 
> Sg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 21:16:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1G9HP008155
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:16:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1EOUw014545
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:14:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1ENjD002868;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:14:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1ELjD002837
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:14:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-004-210.jps.net ([216.119.4.210] helo=pavilion)
	by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19UcO4-0000e0-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:14:20 -0700
Message-ID: <002e01c339f0$14eb3900$d20477d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:29:38 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h5O1G9HP008155
Status: RO

I am seeking some protocol advice from those of you with costume sites, or just those in the know about current correct etiquette.  I am wishing to create links, of course, to websites with related subject matters that I am writing about.  These days, does one send a courtesy email requesting permission to link to a site?  Or does one just create a link, or perhaps create a link and send a FYI email to the site owner advising them of the link.

Some sites address this, and give permission in the first instance and even go so far as to say permission is given and don't bother me with your advice.  One even stated, if you ask then permission will be denied, but go ahead if you don't bother me.

I can imagine museum sites etc would get bogged down with link advice email.  What about deep linking?  Is it only polite to link to a home page?  In some cases, the desired page might just be too hard to find, I'd have to give navigation instructions too.

Thanks for all your help


Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 21:31:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1VnHP008213
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:31:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1TsUw015994
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:29:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1TrjD011167;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:29:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1TojD011129
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:29:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from GENTEELARTS (user218.net630.oh.sprint-hsd.net [65.41.51.218])
	by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h5O1Tjm22662
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:29:45 -0500
From: "Carolann Schmitt" <cschmitt@genteelarts.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re :Does anyone know which year (decade) this new
	pattern is supposed	to be?
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:29:41 -0400
Message-ID: <001501c339f0$15a64ba0$0200a8c0@GENTEELARTS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030623152552.00a561d0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I respectfully disagree with your assessment.  I've probably looked at 500+
dresses from this era and have notes and/or photographs on approximately 50+
sheer dresses documented between 1855-1865 and the cut of this dress is
identical to several of them dated from the c.1858-1864.  The "huge gather
thing" you mentioned can be found on many gathered bodice dresses from the
Civil War era, whether they are made from a sheer fabric, wool, or cotton.
I have not found it as common on silk dresses.  The ruffled skirt is not
quite as common but I can document it to at least a dozen dresses from the
same period.  The front sash is a little more common in the late 1850s and
early 1860s, moving to the back about the middle of the decade.  However, it
could be worn either way.  Overall I found the pattern to be very good.

Carolann Schmitt
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 5-7, 2004


Julie wrote:

The notes in the pattern book claim the dress is 1862 to 1865, calling it a
Civil War Summer dress. I'm kind of skeptical. It's closer ti 1850's, but
even at that it misses in a few places. The bodice is pretty good, but
there's this gather thing at the center back waist, and the skirt has this
single huge ruffle at the knee. Like the prarie skirts from the 1970's?
It's not the tiered skirt effect like from the 1850's, but a single ruffle
falling from knee length to the ground. It feels like someone slipped up on
this pattern. Odd, because all the other Martha McCain patterns have been
pretty dead on accurate.

Here's a link to a picture of the entire dress:
http://www.simplicity.com/designFrame.cfm?designId=7967&design=5442

Another thing I find odd is that they've got the sash being worn both ways.
Frontways doesn't seem right to me, for the 1860's.

This whole pattern seems off, to me

Julie



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 21:33:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1XLHP008220
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:33:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1VVUw016169
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:31:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1VUjD011944;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:31:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1VSjD011909
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:31:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-013scfairp0376.dialsprint.net ([63.183.129.122]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Uced-0002rV-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:31:27 -0700
Message-ID: <3EF7B767.5000001@faucet.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:28:55 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
References: <002e01c339f0$14eb3900$d20477d8@pavilion>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I think it's very polite of you to ask.  Though I can only speak for 
myself, as a site owner I'm happy for anyone to link to any page of my 
site, as they all have links back to the home page.  Getting an FYI mail 
is also nice.

What I don't like is when people take images from my site and post them 
on their own sites without asking--even when the image is attributed. 
I've found pictures of me in my Elizabethan underthings, for goodness' 
sake, on someone else's site.  While they did list my site address 
along-side, it would have been nice if they had asked permission.

I would imagine, though I don't know of course, that museum sites would 
be happy for you to link to pages within their sites, as that increases 
their exposure.  All pages usually have a link to the homepage.  What 
might be objectionable is if you link directly to an image, such that 
the image is presented without any link to the originating page.

That's only my supposition, however.  I'm sure other site owners on the 
list will have much to say on this topic.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 21:37:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1bkHP008238
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:37:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1a1Uw016562
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:36:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1a0jD014137;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:36:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1ZujE014054
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:35:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from LAVOLTA2.lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-12.sonic.net
	[209.148.115.12])	(authenticated bits=0)
	by eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5O1ZHoD029777
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:35:50 -0700
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030623182501.00ae9cf0@pop.sonic.net>
X-Sender: lavolta@pop.sonic.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:37:05 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Lavolta Press <fran@lavoltapress.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
In-Reply-To: <002e01c339f0$14eb3900$d20477d8@pavilion>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 06:29 PM 6/23/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>I am seeking some protocol advice from those of you with costume sites, or 
>just those in the know about current correct etiquette.  I am wishing to 
>create links, of course, to websites with related subject matters that I 
>am writing about.  These days, does one send a courtesy email requesting 
>permission to link to a site?  Or does one just create a link, or perhaps 
>create a link and send a FYI email to the site owner advising them of the link.

Usually people do not object to a link to their main page. Unless your 
website is one many people would not want to be associated with, for some 
reason that's probably obvious. Like, you have a porn site or advocate 
terrorism or something like that.  So, it is also usually common to not ask 
permission to set up such a link. Whether it is a courtesy to inform 
someone depends on whether you think they'd be glad to know, or just 
impatient at getting yet more email.

Deep links are another story. They can confuse your readers as to whether 
the page is on your site or someone else's.  I've even seen deep links used 
this way intentionally, as a way to avoid writing original material or 
hosting images. Most people don't want you using their material to enhance 
your own site, whether that is really your intention or not.  Furthermore 
it can create a lot of extra bandwidth use on their site without ever 
getting readers to their main page to see who they are and what they offer. 
So, if you want to deep link I'd recommend asking permission first.

On the other hand, if a site gives some protocol for people to follow when 
linking to them, that's how to deal with links to that particular site.

Fran



Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and Vintage Dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance 


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 21:42:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1ghHP008254
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:42:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1evUw017066
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:40:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1eujD016486;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:40:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O1eqjD016443
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:40:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from [205.133.149.102] (pm4-102.eos.net [205.133.149.102])
	by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29281
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:40:51 -0400 (EDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:35:17 -0400
From: Gail & Scott Finke <gailscott@eos.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-ID: <BB1D2315.9802%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <200306232149.h5NLnBSY016017@net.indra.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] Re: michaela's new gown
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Michaela:

First, congratulations on your award. And second, congratulations on the
gown! It is so lovely! It is exactly what I want to have ... though I don't
think I am as good a seamstress as you are. You said on your site that you
are writing an article about it. Will that be for your site or for something
else?

Gail Finke

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 22:23:31 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O2NVHP008357
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:23:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O26VUw019733
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:06:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O26Ujd029669;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:06:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O26Qjd029646
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:06:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from asv16.srv.hcvlny.cv.net
	(asv16.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.170]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net
	(iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
	h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:06:31 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142])
	h5O25MG7023811	for
	<h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:06:28 -0400
From: "J.A.Urbik" <jaurbik@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new website on Smithsonian's collection
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <3EF7B224.CE809E72@optonline.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Accept-Language: en
References: <3EF5124A.2090401@comcast.net>
 <36861.162.119.64.111.1056408055.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Another really cool thing this site does is that, as far as I can tell
with a brief perusal, it shows the front, SIDE, AND BACK!!!  this is SO
amazing.  Not my period, but just too cool as so many places seem to
just show the front.  I live in NY now, and was real excited to get to
see the Met's Costume Colleect but when I got to the display area, I was
quite disopointed with how impossible it was to see backs and sides on
many of the outfits.  I have also been disapointed in the periods thave
shown while I have been there also...but that is another story
altogether. 

Cool site, thanks for the link!
jordana


dch@inreach.com wrote:
> 
> > Ok, not all the collection... but I just noticed today that the Museum
> > of American History has added a page to their website recently with
> > pictures and information on a fair number of the dresses in their
> > collection.  http://americanhistory2.si.edu/costume/  (you can get there
> >  through www.si.edu and follow the links to the museum... there's a link
> >  on the front page right now)
> 
> This is so cool!!   I have been wanting to become more familiar with the
> different textiles that were prevalent from each period and this should
> help me alot!
> 
>  Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Diana
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 23 22:41:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O2fgHP008380
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:41:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O2OnUw021100
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:24:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O2Omjd007338;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:24:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
	[66.163.168.180])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5O2Oijd007302
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:24:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from adsl-67-119-194-117.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO hopperflop2)
	(kendrav@sbcglobal.net@67.119.194.117 with login)
	by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP;
	24 Jun 2003 02:24:43 -0000
Message-ID: <008e01c339f7$c6136110$ea44fea9@hopperflop2>
From: "Kendra Van Cleave" <kendra@tweedlebop.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <002e01c339f0$14eb3900$d20477d8@pavilion>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:24:43 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I've always understood the etiquette to be that it's fine to link to just
about anything provided you A) identify on your site that the person is
going to an external link (not a page on your own site) and B) the page you
link to includes some kind of identification of the overall site it's from
(eg in deep linking).  However, this can be a problem with frame sites and
sites that use complicated scripting -- I have a directory on my site that
links to photos of historic garments on museum sites, and some of them I
can't link to without linking directly to the image.

I think in general, as long as you're linking and not stealing (taking
someone's content or images and publishing them on your own site), you're
doing okay.

I would think it was unnecessary if someone emailed me asking for permission
to link to my site.  Very polite, but uncessary!

- Kendra
http://demode.tweedlebop.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 00:36:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O4ahHP008729
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:36:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O4JRUw002079
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:19:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O4JPac009723;
	Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:19:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law9-f73.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.73])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O4JMac009638
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:19:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:19:17 -0700
Received: from 129.244.252.10 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:19:17 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [129.244.252.10]
X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com]
From: "Marc Carlson" <marccarlson20@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:19:17 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Law9-F73aaiySFECVoE00022e6f@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2003 04:19:17.0614 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[C71B40E0:01C33A07]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This is my understanding as well.  Linking to me follows the same basic 
rules as citation - make it clear that you aren't claiming the information 
as yours.  And asking for permission is nice but not necessary.
However, linking without identifying that you are doing so is close to 
plagiarism.

I will say that some people disagree and will get cranky if they aren't 
asked.  This is their prerogative, however I will say that linking to a site 
actually HELPS that sites credibility on some web browsers.

Marc

>From: "Kendra Van Cleave" <kendra@tweedlebop.com>
>I've always understood the etiquette to be that it's fine to link to just
>about anything provided you A) identify on your site that the person is
>going to an external link (not a page on your own site) and B) the page you
>link to includes some kind of identification of the overall site it's from
>(eg in deep linking).  However, this can be a problem with frame sites and
>sites that use complicated scripting -- I have a directory on my site that
>links to photos of historic garments on museum sites, and some of them I
>can't link to without linking directly to the image.
>
>I think in general, as long as you're linking and not stealing (taking
>someone's content or images and publishing them on your own site), you're
>doing okay.
>
>I would think it was unnecessary if someone emailed me asking for 
>permission
>to link to my site.  Very polite, but uncessary!
>
>- Kendra
>http://demode.tweedlebop.com

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 03:16:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7GRHP003657
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:16:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7ESUw015591
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:14:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7ENNx007284;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:14:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5O7ELNx007234
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:14:21 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030624071416.97936.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:14:16 BST
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:14:16 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EF7B767.5000001@faucet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 Personally, I am annoyed when I am being asked, because frankly I don't have
the time nor energy to answer emails that are unnecessary. It's extra polite,
granted, but my very own personal feeling is: oh no! please do and don't bother
me! 

No offense meant to anyone who ever contacted me/thought of contacting, and
might not have received an answer or a three letter one a la 'yes'. It's just
me. :-)

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 03:22:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7MiHP004794
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:22:44 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7L1Uw015881
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:21:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7L0Nx010066;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:21:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5O7KvNx009988
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:20:57 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030624072052.98866.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:20:52 BST
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:20:52 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Test
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <3EF7A383.C3743F75@in-tch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Sue Clemenger <mooncat@in-tch.com> wrote: > We're probably all deep into
page-whatever of the newest Harry
> Potter.....<g>

Nope, because I am totally unimpressed by J'K Rowling's writing. 

However, I DO appreciate VERY muchly the looks of Lucius Malfoy in the film...
*stares doe-eyed at pix* ;-)

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 03:31:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7VMHP007171
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:31:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7TbUw016357
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:29:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7TZNx013681;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:29:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.87])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5O7TXNx013619
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:29:33 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030624072928.96702.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:29:28 BST
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:29:28 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost]  Does anyone know which year (decade) this new pattern
	is supposed to be?
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <20030623081248.62818.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 Thank you to everybody who has come up with answers, and may I say most
helpful ones at that. I think I might make the wrap, for my totally ecentric
lost-her-marbles utterly decades-out-fashion persona. ;-)

Cheers!

Nicole

=====
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 03:58:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7wnHP020782
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:58:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7v4Uw017758
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:57:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7v3vk025039;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:57:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5O7v0vk025018
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:57:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p5-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.207.133] 
	by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19Uifh-0007kF-00; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:56:57 +1200
Message-ID: <3EF8044B.2090404@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:56:59 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: michaela's new gown
References: <BB1D2315.9802%gailscott@eos.net>
In-Reply-To: <BB1D2315.9802%gailscott@eos.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> First, congratulations on your award. And second, congratulations on the
> gown! It is so lovely! It is exactly what I want to have ... though I don't
> think I am as good a seamstress as you are. You said on your site that you
> are writing an article about it. Will that be for your site or for something
> else?

Thank you:) And Thank you:)

I'm not too sure about where i;ll be putting my article.. I may make a 
pdf file of it so people can't just go copy and paste from my site;)
Or I may do a section by section piece and upload it in installments:)

I've just uploaded some piccies of the houppelande I made for someone 
else for the same event... so really i had five peices of garb that I 
made over the weekend;)

michaela
http://costumes.glittersweet.com


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 09:04:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OD4mHP012760
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:04:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OD1cUw009028
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:01:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OD1aWc011675;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:01:37 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OD1XWc011597
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:01:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.99.96.216]) by lakemtao04.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP
          id <20030624130128.LFNS13930.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ>;
          Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:01:28 -0400
From: "Linda Rice" <vmaa2@cox.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:03:56 -0400
Message-ID: <000001c33a51$15393ae0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
cc: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Bacteria Restores Ancient Italian Frescoes
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


This is such a cool story! Imagine how different the frescoes must look
now that they are cleaned.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20030616/bacteriaart.html

::Linda::


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 09:32:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ODWMHP012791
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:32:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ODTHUw012346
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:29:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ODTFWc026774;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:29:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.188])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ODTAWc026727
	for <h-costume@mail.indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:29:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-001dcwashp0008.dialsprint.net ([63.188.0.8]
	helo=DF1HCJ11)
	by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19UnrB-0007TE-00
	for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:29:10 -0700
Message-ID: <001901c33a54$99330f30$0800bc3f@DF1HCJ11>
From: "Maryann Calvert" <yooper22405@earthlink.net>
To: <h-costume@net.indra.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:29:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-ELNK-Trace: 14c36d25b68b7c740ac2c6b81153bf749ef193a6bfc3dd4835dfa7cc3ea474180e08cbcb529c182a60db60e8d83655cd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] AoA's
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h5ODWMHP012791
Status: RO

To our 3 new Ladies of The Realm; VIVAT!  VIVAT! VIVAT!


Maryann
aka: Miriam Calvert of Gidiehall-on-Honibourne
       Canton of Sudentur
       Barony of Stierbach
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 10:15:33 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OEFXHP012867
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:15:33 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OECWUw016564
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:12:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OECU3U021380;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:12:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OEAW3U020137
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:10:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id 6.12f.2d07e678 (17526)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:10:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <12f.2d07e678.2c29b5ce@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:10:22 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re :Does anyone know which year (decade) this new
	pattern is sup...
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/23/2003 7:16:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Kiloran@worldnet.att.net writes:

> The bodice is pretty good, but 
> there's this gather thing at the center back waist, and the skirt has this 
> single huge ruffle at the knee. Like the prarie skirts from the 1970's? 
> It's not the tiered skirt effect like from the 1850's, but a single ruffle 
> falling from knee length to the ground. It feels like someone slipped up on 
> this pattern. Odd, because all the other Martha McCain patterns have been 
> pretty dead on accurate.
> 

I don't see any of this really. The sleeves and straight waist make it more 
1860s than anything else but all the other details, fan front and skirt ruffle, 
are not exclusive to 1850s or rare in the 1860s. I'd think an 1850s version 
of this dress would have bell sleeves and a pointed waist. The skirt ruffle is 
common throughout the century.
So IMHO it's not bad for 1860s. Just DON"T make a matchy-matchy mantle and 
hat out of the same material...YUK!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 10:30:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OEUMHP012899
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:30:23 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OERFUw017981
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:27:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OERE3U000449;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:27:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OERA3U000414
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:27:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-007-030.jps.net ([216.119.7.30] helo=pavilion)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19UolJ-0000JY-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:27:10 -0700
Message-ID: <00b101c33a5e$d8de73e0$1e0777d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <002e01c339f0$14eb3900$d20477d8@pavilion>
	<008e01c339f7$c6136110$ea44fea9@hopperflop2>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:42:31 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks for all your thoughts on linking.  I wasn't sure if "deep linking"
referred only to linking to an image, which I completely understand, or to
an interior page of a website.  If someone only wanted a link to their home
page, I might give them a miss altogether to save giving my viewer
navigation instructions through someone else's site.  Linking to an interior
page that contains a home button seems reasonable to me.

Since most of my links will be accompany information I have written about,
not a "links page", the site is going to be a bit more "web news style" than
an academic essay format, I was somewhat concerned about the issue of "name
dropping" when using links, but then the source of the link needs to be
clearly identified.  Well, I shall do my best and remember you can't please
everyone.

I think I shall link and send a courtesy FYI.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer this question!  And for all those
great websites you've created to link to!!!

Lisa




----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendra Van Cleave" <kendra@tweedlebop.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites


> I've always understood the etiquette to be that it's fine to link to just
> about anything provided you A) identify on your site that the person is
> going to an external link (not a page on your own site) and B) the page
you
> link to includes some kind of identification of the overall site it's from
> (eg in deep linking).  However, this can be a problem with frame sites and
> sites that use complicated scripting -- I have a directory on my site that
> links to photos of historic garments on museum sites, and some of them I
> can't link to without linking directly to the image.
>
> I think in general, as long as you're linking and not stealing (taking
> someone's content or images and publishing them on your own site), you're
> doing okay.
>
> I would think it was unnecessary if someone emailed me asking for
permission
> to link to my site.  Very polite, but uncessary!
>
> - Kendra
> http://demode.tweedlebop.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 14:23:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OINoHP013819
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:23:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OIKdUw015334
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:20:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OIKZBN006726;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:20:35 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OIKVBN006670
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:20:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19UsP8-000F2V-0W
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:20:30 +0100
Message-ID: <h2yer9FD0y9+IwWX@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:38:27 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
References: <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
 <001d01c33729$5c24faa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
In-Reply-To: <001d01c33729$5c24faa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

  I'm not getting any links to pictures of looms in this thread, so I may 
be talking about the wrong thing.  But what I think of as an inkle loom 
has various horizontal bars or pegs that you can wind the warp around in 
zig-zag patterns to get a lot of length in a short space.  I have a much 
simpler frame which is just a board with two upright posts, one at 
either end, about six inches high.  I wind the warp around them as many 
times as it needs (three lengths is practical - more is difficult) and 
just have to re-fix it when I get from one post to the other.  When I'm 
weaving at events, I'm careful to tell punters that there's no evidence 
they used such a thing, but it's so much more practical than being tied 
to a post.  I'm often doing it while keeping an eye on the camp during 
the big battle, so I need to be able to jump up quickly.

Jean



Betsy Marshall <betsy@softwareinnovation.com> wrote
>I find myself interested in what
>you would suggest as an alternative?
>Betsy
>
>
>
>A tiny, slightly OT grump: I really wish those little
>lap style inkle looms would fall out of fashion in the
>SCA forever. They are not even close to anything of
>the period; the original inkle loom of this type was
>designed by Everett Gilmore (the guy who built my
>floor loom) in the 1930s.
>
>Dawn
>
>=====
>Dawn Jacobson
>Vallejo, CA, USA
>
>Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day.
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 14:27:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OIR4HP013828
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:27:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OINqUw015701
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:23:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OINpBN009341;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:23:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OIKVBN006669
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:20:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19UsP8-000F2W-0W
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:20:30 +0100
Message-ID: <YmqQvfGi1y9+Iww4@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:40:02 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny or
	not?
References: <003101c33673$676e59d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
 <001f01c33679$20fcffa0$7b0877d8@pavilion>
In-Reply-To: <001f01c33679$20fcffa0$7b0877d8@pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Could you explain a bit more - is the mangle used to do the calendering 
(with very smooth rollers?) or is it another part of a several-stage 
process?

Jean


Lisa Sinervo <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com> wrote
>Yes, callendering is used to produce a sheen.  Pressure on the fabric makes
>the surface more compact & smooth and this changes the way it reflects
>light, thus producing shininess.
>
>Lisa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Saragrace Knauf" <saragrace@earthlink.net>
>To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
>Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:59 AM
>Subject: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny or not?
>
>
>> ~The Venetians (and probably other Italians) introduced
>> ~the use of mangles in the calendering process
>> ~(calendering is similar to ironing, but imparts a
>> ~smooth and, if desired, shiny surface to the material
>> ~being processed).
>>
>>  Does anyone know if this is required or would increase the shininess of
>> silk?
>>
>> Sg
>> (who is again bemoaning the fact that she chose mechanical over textiles
>> engineering, kick, grumble, spit!)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 16:01:14 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OK1DHP014151
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:01:13 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OJw6Uw026792
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:58:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OJw2IP026014;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:58:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OJw0IP025973
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:58:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by draco.its.csufresno.edu
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003))
 with ESMTP id <0HH000GDO4SMJL@draco.its.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:48:23 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
In-reply-to: <090201c337ad$6054dcb0$0400a8c0@compaqub>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030624124637.02e337c0@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <20030621040838.95497.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 11:27 PM 6/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>It may have something to do with the amount of time and the method, then. I
>use a big ole plastic vat (~50 gallons? not sure exactly) for all my dyeing,
>etc, projects. In order to yellow the linen, here's what I've done in the
>past.


I am wondering, what is the color of your big plastic vat? I was pondering 
if the bleach may be leaching something from the vat that is making the 
color of your linen so brightly yellow.

The other thought... American's use bleach that has blueing in it, and the 
Japanese have a yellow color to their bleach. Where do you live? Maybe that 
might be a factor.

Just some thoughts...

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 16:19:10 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKJAHP014189
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:19:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKG5Uw028758
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:16:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKG2IP010960;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:16:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKFwIP010841
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:15:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from compaqub ([68.1.234.199]) by lakemtao05.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP
          id <20030624201553.QTAC28938.lakemtao05.cox.net@compaqub>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:15:53 -0400
Message-ID: <099901c33a8d$6c5d7610$0400a8c0@compaqub>
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030621040838.95497.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20030624124637.02e337c0@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:15:54 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

It's clear, and I'm in the US; the yellowing happens no matter what color
the linen is (and it yellows darker than the original color, for light
colors) and it occured when I used other vats, and in ceramics as well. I've
never done it with a washing machine, because I don't have one!

Honestly, I'm surprised no one else has had this experience on this
list--I've heard similar experiences all over the place elsewhere.

E

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 16:26:47 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKQkHP014207
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:26:47 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKNkUw029801
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:23:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKNjIP017487;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:23:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mx01.supplyguys.net ([65.115.27.29])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKNeIQ017369
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:23:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 12359 invoked by uid 89); 24 Jun 2003 20:19:12 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO vivid.net) (209.206.17.25)
  by 0 with SMTP; 24 Jun 2003 20:19:12 -0000
Message-ID: <3EF8B343.4A2C994C@vivid.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:23:35 -0400
From: Wendy Colbert <wendyc@vivid.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
References: <20030621040838.95497.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>
	<099901c33a8d$6c5d7610$0400a8c0@compaqub>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Are you on City water or well water? It is possible that minerals in
your water are the explanation.

Wendy

E House wrote:
> 
> It's clear, and I'm in the US; the yellowing happens no matter what color
> the linen is (and it yellows darker than the original color, for light
> colors) and it occured when I used other vats, and in ceramics as well. I've
> never done it with a washing machine, because I don't have one!
> 
> Honestly, I'm surprised no one else has had this experience on this
> list--I've heard similar experiences all over the place elsewhere.
> 
> E
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 16:49:11 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKnAHP014266
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:49:10 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKk6Uw002760
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:46:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKk4IP004759;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:46:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5OKjvIP004653
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:45:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net (adsl-67-124-118-61.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
	[67.124.118.61])h5OKjNSJ026958
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:45:25 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030624133444.00b29de8@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:43:07 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
In-Reply-To: <h2yer9FD0y9+IwWX@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
References: <001d01c33729$5c24faa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
 <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
 <001d01c33729$5c24faa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 05:38 PM 6/23/2003 +0100, Jean wrote:
>  I'm not getting any links to pictures of looms in this thread, so I may 
> be talking about the wrong thing.  But what I think of as an inkle loom 
> has various horizontal bars or pegs that you can wind the warp around in 
> zig-zag patterns to get a lot of length in a short space.  I have a much 
> simpler frame which is just a board with two upright posts, one at either 
> end, about six inches high.  I wind the warp around them as many times as 
> it needs (three lengths is practical - more is difficult) and just have 
> to re-fix it when I get from one post to the other.  When I'm weaving at 
> events, I'm careful to tell punters that there's no evidence they used 
> such a thing, but it's so much more practical than being tied to a 
> post.  I'm often doing it while keeping an eye on the camp during the big 
> battle, so I need to be able to jump up quickly.
>
>Jean
Yes, the first thing you describe sounds like a lap/tabletop inkle loom. 
I'm curious about your "board with 2 upright posts"; it sounds similar to a 
warping board, and I'm curious how you weave on it.


>Betsy Marshall <betsy@softwareinnovation.com> wrote
>>I find myself interested in what
>>you would suggest as an alternative?
>>Betsy

How about an English type inkle loom? There are plans for one in Byways in 
Hand-Weaving by Mary Meigs Atwater, along with instructions on how to do 
inkle weaving, tablet weaving, twined weaving, braiding, knotting, and 
plaiting.

I'm a little surprised that this book is not mentioned more often when 
people are starting to learn different historic weaving techniques. 
Published in 1954 and still in print (AFAIK), it's a good basic book for 
any weaver's library.

Dawn


Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 19:14:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONEVHP014585
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:14:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONBRUw019711
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:11:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONBNaO003427;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:11:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtai04.cox.net (lakemtai04.cox.net [68.1.17.251])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONBJaO003322
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:11:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.99.96.216]) by lakemtao04.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP
          id <20030624223720.RGJH13930.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:37:20 -0400
From: "Linda Rice" <vmaa2@cox.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:39:42 -0400
Message-ID: <000001c33aa1$851509c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi all~
I was looking for information about sprang, and found this very
interesting page.
I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about this:

http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/coll/peris2.shtml 

 What and where is the Salado culture? Does anyone live near the U of
Arizona, and maybe has seen this and can tell us more about it?

Thanks for your help,

::Linda::


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 19:33:00 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONWxHP014602
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:32:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONTwUw021663
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:29:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONTuaO016182;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:29:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu (mxout5.cac.washington.edu
	[140.142.32.135])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONTsaP016153
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:29:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139])
	ESMTP id h5ONTrkI025565
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:29:53 -0700
Received: from UROPORTABLE ([140.107.243.106])h5ONTr48017478
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:29:53 -0700
Message-ID: <031e01c33aa8$89503e40$6af36b8c@UROPORTABLE>
From: "Agnes Gawne" <gawne@mac.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000001c33aa1$851509c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:30:02 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

The Salt River used to run through Arizona.  I believe the native people
that lived along it were the Salado people.  If nobody on the list knows for
sure you should write to the museum, they would certainly respond.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Rice" <vmaa2@cox.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 3:39 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic


> Hi all~
> I was looking for information about sprang, and found this very
> interesting page.
> I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about this:
>
> http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/coll/peris2.shtml
>
>  What and where is the Salado culture? Does anyone live near the U of
> Arizona, and maybe has seen this and can tell us more about it?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> ::Linda::
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 19:37:05 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONb4HP014615
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:37:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONXvUw022043
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:33:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONXpaO018846;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:33:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5ONXlaO018725
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:33:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ojyh/1p8sB37J7HVYXBH2xk=">; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:32:54
	PDT
Received: (from cley@juno.com) 
 by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H3GRNMKT; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:32:54 PDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:31:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Message-ID: <20030624.163154.900.3.Cley@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4
X-Juno-Att: 0
X-Juno-RefParts: 0
From: Cynthia J Ley <cley@juno.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Were there such garments in Europe? I know they did sock and hats, but
I've never heard of tunics before.

Arlys
> http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/coll/peris2.shtml 


________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 19:53:09 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONr9HP014651
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:53:09 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONo5Uw023738
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:50:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONo3aO028820;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:50:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONo1aO028757
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:50:01 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.99.96.216]) by lakemtao01.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP
          id <20030624234954.PYDN8337.lakemtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ>
          for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:49:54 -0400
From: "Linda Rice" <vmaa2@cox.net>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:52:19 -0400
Message-ID: <000e01c33aab$ac379bd0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-reply-to: <20030624.163154.900.3.Cley@juno.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Actually, all the info I've ever heard *was* in a European context. I
was quite surprised to see the location and date of this "tunic". 

I think I need to break down and buy that Collingwood sprang book
soon... 

::Linda::

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic

Were there such garments in Europe? I know they did sock and hats, but
I've never heard of tunics before.

Arlys
> http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/coll/peris2.shtml



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 20:27:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0RRHP014723
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:27:27 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0ONUw026807
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:24:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0OM03018940;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:24:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0OI03018903
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:24:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109])
	by misc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5P0OTjp004289
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:24:29 -0700
Message-ID: <3EF8EAED.60007@misc.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:21:01 -0700
From: Theresa Eacker <theresa@misc.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011022 Netscape6/6.2
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
References: <000001c33aa1$851509c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

to LInda-


I "googled" your query about the Salado culture and found some very 
informative sites:

http://www.beloit.edu/~museum/logan/southwest/salado/introduction.htm

http://www.nps.gov/tont/culture/salado.htm

http://www.azsilver.com/spiritkeep/NewFiles/saladohistory.html


Hope this sheds some light,

THeresa Eacker

Linda Rice wrote:

> Hi all~
> I was looking for information about sprang, and found this very
> interesting page.
> I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about this:
> 
> http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/coll/peris2.shtml 
> 
>  What and where is the Salado culture? Does anyone live near the U of
> Arizona, and maybe has seen this and can tell us more about it?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> ::Linda::


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 20:41:42 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0fgHP014751
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:41:42 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0cdUw027902
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:38:39 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0cb03026998;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:38:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0cU03026883
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:38:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5P0cTHm005204
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.197.48] (tnt-1-112.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.48])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0cOg8005133
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100300bb1e9e1b1bcf@[128.32.4.36]>
In-Reply-To: <000001c33aa1$851509c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
References: <000001c33aa1$851509c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:35:12 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 6:39 PM -0400 6/24/03, Linda Rice wrote:
>Hi all~
>I was looking for information about sprang, and found this very
>interesting page.
>I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about this:
>
>http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/coll/peris2.shtml
>
>  What and where is the Salado culture?

The description at the bottom of the page says:

Culture: Salado
Dates: ca. AD 1300-1450
Location: Tonto-Roosevelt Basin, central AZ
  Material: cotton

The exact phrase "Salado culture" in Google seems to turn up a number 
of sites with general background information and history.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 20:42:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0g4HP014754
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:42:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0d5Uw027977
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:39:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0d203027290;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:39:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0cX03026947
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:38:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5P0cWHm005234
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.197.48] (tnt-1-112.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.48])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P0cOgA005133
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:38:31 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100301bb1e9edf49bd@[128.32.4.36]>
In-Reply-To: <000e01c33aab$ac379bd0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
References: <000e01c33aab$ac379bd0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:38:15 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 7:52 PM -0400 6/24/03, Linda Rice wrote:
>Actually, all the info I've ever heard *was* in a European context. I
>was quite surprised to see the location and date of this "tunic".
>
>I think I need to break down and buy that Collingwood sprang book
>soon...

There's a lot of sprang historically from Central and South America 
-- Collingwood covers both the Old and New World traditions, which 
have to have been completely independent inventions.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 22:16:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2GJHP014990
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:16:19 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2DGUw007344
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:13:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2DDIa019053;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:13:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.116])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2DBIa019036
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:13:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-9-50.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.50] helo=pavilion)
	by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19UzmX-0005pP-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:13:10 -0700
Message-ID: <000c01c33ac1$7957c440$320977d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <003101c33673$676e59d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
	<001f01c33679$20fcffa0$7b0877d8@pavilion>
	<YmqQvfGi1y9+Iww4@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny
	ornot?
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:28:31 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Calendering and using a mangle are one in the same, to my knowledge anyway.
I've posted a scan of a commercial calender at
http://www.threadneedlest.com/calendering.cfm  I'll be taking it down
shortly.  It's from an old 1975 text book on Textiles called Textiles:
Fiber to Fabric" by Corbman.  I picked it up on ebay for for a steal plus
shipping.  It's handy to have around and I'd recommend anyone interested in
costuming to at least have a look at an introductory textiles book if they
at all have the time.

Like a mangle, a calender has at least one smooth steel roll and usually if
not always one soft roll made of wool, cotton or cotton and corn husks.  The
fabric passes between the two rolls in a space called a nip.  The text
states that fabric is passed through the nip at an average rate of 150 yards
per minute under pressure of 40 to 60 tons, and sometimes as much as 100
tons.  After passing through the calender, the fabric is wound up on the
back of the machine.

There is another type of calender that is used to produce glazed finishes.
This one has a similar set up but the gears are set so that the hot steel
drums roll faster than the fabric that is passing through the nip.  This
creates friction and produces a glazed finish.  An application of starch,
glue, mucilage or shellac is often preceded by friction calendering.

There is also a process called schreinering which uses a calender with small
lines etched into the steel roller.  When cheap cotton fabric is passed
through this machine, miniscule ridges (125 to 600 per inch) are impressed
in the fabric causing light to reflect off of it making the fabric appear
lustrous.  Unfortunately, these ridges disappear after you wash the garment
a few times.  Another reason cheap clothes look so much better at the shop
then they do after you wear them a few times.

I'd be most interested in hearing about the Venitian reference for
calendering.  I'd not heard about that.  Please tell me more and where this
info popped up.

rgds,

Lisa

fyi -

Main Entry: mu·ci·lage
Pronunciation: 'myü-s(&-)lij
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English muscilage, from Late Latin mucilago mucus, musty
juice, from Latin mucus
Date: 15th century
1 : a gelatinous substance of various plants (as legumes or seaweeds) that
contains protein and polysaccharides and is similar to plant gums
2 : an aqueous usually viscid solution (as of a gum) used especially as an
adhesive


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Waddie" <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny
ornot?


> Could you explain a bit more - is the mangle used to do the calendering
> (with very smooth rollers?) or is it another part of a several-stage
> process?
>
> Jean
>
>
> Lisa Sinervo <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com> wrote
> >Yes, callendering is used to produce a sheen.  Pressure on the fabric
makes
> >the surface more compact & smooth and this changes the way it reflects
> >light, thus producing shininess.
> >
> >Lisa

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 22:38:41 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2cfHP015024
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:38:41 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2ZZUw008980
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:35:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2ZYIa028966;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:35:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.123])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2ZTIa028906
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:35:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-9-50.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.50] helo=pavilion)
	by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19V088-0002tQ-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:35:29 -0700
Message-ID: <000801c33ac4$972b3c60$320977d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <002e01c339f0$14eb3900$d20477d8@pavilion>
	<3EF7B767.5000001@faucet.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:50:50 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This made me giggle.  No, I don't think I would appreciate it either.  But
if these are the photos you are refering to
http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html  (your site) I can
understand why they were pinched.  Very nice work and photos too!

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "Melanie Schuessler" <melanie@faucet.net>
>
> What I don't like is when people take images from my site and post them
> on their own sites without asking--even when the image is attributed.
> I've found pictures of me in my Elizabethan underthings, for goodness'
> sake, on someone else's site.  While they did list my site address
> along-side, it would have been nice if they had asked permission.
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 22:50:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2oUHP015052
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:50:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2lRUw009889
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:47:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2lPIa004983;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:47:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pop2b.ripco.com (root@pop2b.ripco.com [209.100.227.27])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P2lNIa004977
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:47:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ripco.com (tcr171.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.171])
	by pop2b.ripco.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h5P2lSP19728
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:47:29 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <3EF90D2F.4080401@ripco.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:47:11 -0500
From: zski <zski@ripco.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: h-costume@indra.com
References: <200306250236.h5P2ZuIc029154@net.indra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [h-cost] yellowing linen
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:15:54 -0500
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>

-It's clear, and I'm in the US; the yellowing happens no matter what 
-color the linen is (and it yellows darker than the original color, for 
-light colors) and it occured when I used other vats, and in ceramics as 
-well. I've never done it with a washing machine, because I don't have -one!

Hmm - I use a machine, but I have never had linen yellow on me.  Silk, 
yes, but not linen.  I even have some linen that was a really pale rose 
color (probably accidental) and was able to bleach it out.  Petticoat is 
6 yrs old and doing fine.

I had a linen chemise that I bleached regularly and it lasted 5 years, 
and I am HARD on my faire clothes  (9-22 weekends per year)

who knows....

Wendy
hot and sweaty in
Chicago, IL

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Jun 24 23:30:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P3UjHP015242
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:30:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P3P4Uw012772
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:25:04 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P3P2nY022896;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:25:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com
	[207.195.54.245])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P3OunY022805
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:24:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243])
	by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 340B616CAB6
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:24:56 -0600 (CST)
Received: (qmail 11603 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 03:24:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (12.246.76.5)
  by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 03:24:55 -0000
Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624201656.00a37480@pop3.lfchosting.com>
X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:23:45 -0700
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: MaryAnn Jones <mabse@spublofe.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306250236.h5P2ZuIc029154@net.indra.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] Melanie's underwear
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

okay, it prompted me to go look at you in your underwear again (not a 
phrase I use very often).  You mention that you used half inch steel boning 
in the corset.  How did that work out?  I bought some and then read about 
them twisting.  I am assuming that the twisting would be from the boning 
channels being too large.  I asked Margo Anderson and she said that she 
thought that if you used them in a channel that was on the diagonal that 
that could cause them to twist.  So my question is:  how did they work for you?
maryann

At 08:36 PM 6/24/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>From: "Melanie Schuessler" <melanie@faucet.net>
> >
> > What I don't like is when people take images from my site and post them
> > on their own sites without asking--even when the image is attributed.
> > I've found pictures of me in my Elizabethan underthings, for goodness'
> > sake, on someone else's site.


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 00:01:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P41THP015513
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:01:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P3wSUw016643
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:58:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P3wQ3M012222;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:58:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P3wK3M012171
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:58:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-005scfairp0101.dialsprint.net ([63.184.232.101]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19V1QJ-0000J3-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:58:20 -0700
Message-ID: <3EF92B4F.5070808@faucet.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:55:43 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Melanie's underwear
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624201656.00a37480@pop3.lfchosting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I was somewhat taken aback by the subject line, but hey, I'm game! 
Let's talk about my underwear! :)

MaryAnn Jones wrote:
> okay, it prompted me to go look at you in your underwear again (not a 
> phrase I use very often).  You mention that you used half inch steel 
> boning in the corset.  How did that work out?  I bought some and then 
> read about them twisting.  I am assuming that the twisting would be from 
> the boning channels being too large.  I asked Margo Anderson and she 
> said that she thought that if you used them in a channel that was on the 
> diagonal that that could cause them to twist.  So my question is:  how 
> did they work for you?

They've never ever twisted.  Of course, being an Elizabethan corset, all 
the boning channels are straight up and down, but I've never had a 
problem with flat steel twisting in the channels.  Well, the boning 
itself cannot twist--it's just a flat piece of steel.  I guess any 
twisting would be the fabric twisting around the bones, but I've never 
had that happen.  I always make the channels just big enough to get the 
bones through.  I guess I can imagine _spiral_ steel twisting, but I've 
never had a problem with that, either (in Victorian corsets that do have 
diagonal channels).

Their drawback is that they're not accurate for Elizabethan corsets, but 
they work SO well.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 00:33:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4XbHP017123
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:33:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4UTUw019507
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:30:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4URYp029613;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:30:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from stanford.loosefoot.com (stanford.loosefoot.com
	[207.195.54.245])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4UOYp029566
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:30:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bernie.loosefoot.com (bernie.loosefoot.com [207.195.54.243])
	by stanford.loosefoot.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C885A16132B
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:30:23 -0600 (CST)
Received: (qmail 3413 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 04:30:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mabion.spublofe.com) (12.246.76.5)
  by bernie.loosefoot.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 04:30:23 -0000
Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624212622.00a446e0@pop3.lfchosting.com>
X-Sender: mabse/spublofe.com@pop3.lfchosting.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:29:13 -0700
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: MaryAnn Jones <mabse@spublofe.com>
In-Reply-To: <200306241802.h5OI2RBP022583@net.indra.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: [h-cost] exhibit in LA
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I saw signs up that the Getty museum in Los Angeles has an exhibit on the 
Renaissance going on right  now.  Has anyone seen it?  Is it worth going to 
see?  I am thinking of taking a tour while I am down there for costume 
college.  Maryann

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 00:38:02 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4c2HP017136
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:38:02 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P42wUw017076
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:02:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P42w3M014228;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:02:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P42s3M014184
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:02:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-005scfairp0101.dialsprint.net ([63.184.232.101]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19V1Uj-0005ya-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:02:54 -0700
Message-ID: <3EF92C62.4080807@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:00:18 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
References: <002e01c339f0$14eb3900$d20477d8@pavilion>
	<3EF7B767.5000001@faucet.net> <000801c33ac4$972b3c60$320977d8@pavilion>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Lisa Sinervo wrote:
> This made me giggle.  No, I don't think I would appreciate it either.  But
> if these are the photos you are refering to
> http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/under.html  (your site) I can
> understand why they were pinched.  Very nice work and photos too!

Thanks.  Yes, that's it--the top one on the left, if I recall correctly. 
  Like I said, they did put in the site address and credited it to me, 
but they didn't ask.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 00:41:29 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4fSHP017142
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:41:29 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4cJUw020089
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:38:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4cIYp003700;
	Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:38:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.12])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P4cFYp003663
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:38:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-025scfairp0071.dialsprint.net ([63.183.120.71]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19V22x-0000st-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:38:15 -0700
Message-ID: <3EF934AB.5020700@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:35:39 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Melanie's underwear
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624201656.00a37480@pop3.lfchosting.com>
	<3EF92B4F.5070808@faucet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Upon reading this again, I realized I was unclear.  When I said:

> Their drawback is that they're not accurate for Elizabethan corsets, but 
> they work SO well.

I was talking about flat steel (also called spring steel), not spiral 
steel.  Spiral steel is of course also inaccurate for Elizabethan 
corsets, but I don't know why anyone would choose to use it in that 
context, so it's a moot point.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 02:17:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6HeHP023231
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:17:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6EYUw026263
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:14:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6EUJu017860;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:14:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6ESJu017840
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:14:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HH000IUIXC128@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:04:56 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] exhibit in LA
In-reply-to: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624212622.00a446e0@pop3.lfchosting.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030624225658.02e51a58@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
References: <200306241802.h5OI2RBP022583@net.indra.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 09:29 PM 6/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>I saw signs up that the Getty museum in Los Angeles has an exhibit on the 
>Renaissance going on right  now.  Has anyone seen it?  Is it worth going 
>to see?  I am thinking of taking a tour while I am down there for costume 
>college.  Maryann


Looking at their web site:
http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/flemish/home.html
Illuminating the Renaissance:
The Triumph of Flemish Manuscript Painting in Europe

The web site is wonderful! There is a full image you can zoom in and get 
close ups on the ladies and their dresses. It is "Genealogical Tree of the 
Kings of Aragon", and wow you can see up close on the writings on one 
ladies purse.

I have a friend who lives within a couple of miles of the museum. I may 
just do a tour as well.

In the Zoom and Explore area, 
http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/flemish/zoom.html , there is a section 
on Fashion of the Times. Sweet! I have something to look at, and this isn't 
even my area of interest.

Thanks for the heads up.

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 02:56:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6umHP003681
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:56:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6rkUw028400
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:53:47 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6rjJu003797;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:53:45 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P6rhJu003738
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:53:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pavilion (213-78-101-113.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.101.113])
	3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id AEQ56297;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:53:30 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <03ca01c33ae6$ab3e9400$a4664ed5@pavilion>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030624.163154.900.3.Cley@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:54:34 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>Were there such garments in Europe? I know they did sock and hats, but
I've never heard of tunics before.

There are finds of possible sleeves put these could be hose. It is thought
possible to probably that there were tunics etc

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 03:09:56 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P79sHP008884
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:09:55 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P74wUw029032
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:04:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P74vGa008197;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:04:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5P74rGa008159
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:04:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from p615-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz) [203.173.194.107] 
	by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 19V4Ko-00053S-00; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:04:51 +1200
Message-ID: <3EF94991.5050509@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:04:49 +1200
From: michaela <thebruce@ihug.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] exhibit in LA
References: <200306241802.h5OI2RBP022583@net.indra.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20030624225658.02e51a58@127.0.0.1>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030624225658.02e51a58@127.0.0.1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> In the Zoom and Explore area, 
> http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/flemish/zoom.html , there is a 
> section on Fashion of the Times. Sweet! I have something to look at, and 
> this isn't even my area of interest.

It's a wonderful resourse, only I'm having so much trouble with my 
internet connection... Still perserverance will prevail;)

Love all the pink in the Alexandra takes the hand of Roxanne:)

michaela
http://glittersweet.com
clearly interested in this era;)


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 10:40:23 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PEeMHP021431
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:40:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PEZpUw001588
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:35:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PEZiat027050;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:35:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PEZfat027016
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:35:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Brainiac.pacbell.net ([67.124.118.61])
 by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18
 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HH100583KHKTZ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:32:15 -0700
From: Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny
	ornot?
In-reply-to: <000c01c33ac1$7957c440$320977d8@pavilion>
X-Sender: dtjacobson@pop.mail.yahoo.com
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030625071611.00b29f10@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
References: <003101c33673$676e59d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
 <001f01c33679$20fcffa0$7b0877d8@pavilion>
 <YmqQvfGi1y9+Iww4@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 07:28 PM 6/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Calendering and using a mangle are one in the same, to my knowledge anyway.
>I've posted a scan of a commercial calender at
>http://www.threadneedlest.com/calendering.cfm  I'll be taking it down
>shortly.  It's from an old 1975 text book on Textiles called Textiles:
>Fiber to Fabric" by Corbman.  I picked it up on ebay for for a steal plus
>shipping.  It's handy to have around and I'd recommend anyone interested in
>costuming to at least have a look at an introductory textiles book if they
>at all have the time.
>
>Like a mangle, a calender has at least one smooth steel roll and usually if
>not always one soft roll made of wool, cotton or cotton and corn husks.  The
>fabric passes between the two rolls in a space called a nip.  The text
>states that fabric is passed through the nip at an average rate of 150 yards
>per minute under pressure of 40 to 60 tons, and sometimes as much as 100
>tons.  After passing through the calender, the fabric is wound up on the
>back of the machine.
>
>There is another type of calender that is used to produce glazed finishes.
>This one has a similar set up but the gears are set so that the hot steel
>drums roll faster than the fabric that is passing through the nip.  This
>creates friction and produces a glazed finish.  An application of starch,
>glue, mucilage or shellac is often preceded by friction calendering.
>
>There is also a process called schreinering which uses a calender with small
>lines etched into the steel roller.  When cheap cotton fabric is passed
>through this machine, miniscule ridges (125 to 600 per inch) are impressed
>in the fabric causing light to reflect off of it making the fabric appear
>lustrous.  Unfortunately, these ridges disappear after you wash the garment
>a few times.  Another reason cheap clothes look so much better at the shop
>then they do after you wear them a few times.
>
>I'd be most interested in hearing about the Venitian reference for
>calendering.  I'd not heard about that.  Please tell me more and where this
>info popped up.
>
>rgds,
>
>Lisa
>

Mola, Luca. The Silk Industry of Renaissance Venice. Baltimore: Johns 
Hopkins University Press, 2000. pp. 196-198; p. 321

While I haven't had a chance to read the entire book yet, it appears to be 
a pretty thorough examination of the Venetian silk industry and (to a 
lesser extent) its role in international trade during the 15th through 17th 
centuries.

Dawn


Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. 
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 10:40:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PEeiHP021435
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:40:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PEbYUw001734
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:37:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PEbXat028065;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:37:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net
	(smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.156])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5PEbUat028040
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:37:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 5955 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2003 14:37:25 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO castlebooks) (208.1.140.126)
  by smtp-int-02.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 14:37:25 -0000
Message-ID: <002801c33b27$51a81880$7e8c01d0@castlebooks>
From: "Janet Davis" <castle@erie.net>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:37:34 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-AE] Links: Medieval Hats, Shoes, Belts
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This lady is a research librarian who puts together lists of sites on topics
of interest to the SCA.  Some of these sites are fairly well-known, but some
of the shoe ones were new to me.

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com

> Greetings everyone.
>
> As I seem to be catching every virus known to mankind lately, the Links
> lists have been a little slow in coming. Please do not be confused: you
have
> not missed an issue last week, I have failed to produce one. Here is This
> week's list, however, and I pray you will forgive me my temporary lapse.
>
> This week's list is about medieval hats, belts and shoes. I hope you enjoy
> it in the spirit it is offered, and will pass it along to those who are
> interested in such things.
>
> Cheers
>
> Aoife
>
> Easy Men's Hats from 1300 - 1500: Workshop & Notes
> by Cynthia Virtue aka Cynthia du Pré Argent
> http://www.virtue.to/articles/mens_hats.html
> (Site Excerpt) Some of the most silly hats that have ever been invented as
> serious wear on this planet were in use during this time in
Europe.Although
> many of the most outrageous were worn by noblewomen, there are several fun
> styles for men of all classes that are both practical and easy to make.
> Once you familiarize yourself with these, you can go on to consider some
of
> the more outlandish ones if you wish, or rest content with these knowing
> that the proper hat makes your garb look just right. (See also
> http://www.virtue.to/articles/#Hats for more excellent hat articles by
this
> author).
>
> COSTUMES AND CLOTHING MEDIEVAL
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/7631/costume3.html
> (Site Excerpt) The hood became a separate garment. Later in the period,
the
> hood, with its pointed end (the liripipe), and short shoulder cape, became
a
> hat worn by putting the head into the hole originally intended for the
face
> and wrapping the extended liripipe around the head in turban fashion.
Later
> still, the hat was hung over the shoulder by the liripipe as a badge. Its
> ultimate manifestation became the cockade on the 19th-century livery hat
or
> the 20th-century doorman's hat. Another even more curious derivation of
the
> hood is the small tab sewn in the back of an English barrister's gown.
>
> Headgear: A brief introduction
> By Lady Jehanne de Hugenin
> http://users.iafrica.com/m/me/melisant/costume/headgear.htm
> (Site Excerpt) The hat maketh the wo/man! It's always a source of sadness
to
> me how many people make magnificent SCA costumes and then fail to complete
> them with the relevant headgear. More than any other accessory, what you
> wear on your head completes the look of your clothing; it's essential to
the
> flavour of the majority of centuries in the medieval era.
>
> Hat Patterns from Harper House
> the perfect finishing touch to almost any outfit. (Commercial site)
> http://www.longago.com/hat.html
>
> What sort of hat would you have worn in Medieval times?
> http://www.learner.org/exhibits/middleages/clothact.html
> (Site Excerpt) Hats were an important part of medieval garb. Depending on
> one's occupation and the time of the year, hats could vary from linen head
> warmers, to straw or felt hats, to "borrelais" hats to fine mesh mail
coifs,
> to "sallet" helmets, to visored "basinets" to mitres and crowns.
> Five hats are pictured below, try to determine which of the people listed
> wore which of the hats.
>
> Footwear of the Middle Ages
> http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOEHOME.HTM
> (Site Excerpt) The purpose of this web site is to provide a general guide
to
> footwear in the European Middle Ages, with some examinations of footwear
> before that period, as well as some that came after.  Hopefully this will
be
> an overview of footwear technology up to 1600.  Since we don't have the
> materials or knowledge to make this an exhaustive view of all footwear up
to
> 1600, because much of the knowledge has been long lost, not yet published,
> or simply not available to me at this time, this site should always be
> considered a work in process. Further, I don't wish to present this
material
> as thought I am an expert, much less THE expert in this field.   As we
learn
> more about how things were done, this will change our understanding of
> techniques, technology, and so forth.  To my mind, the true experts on
> Medieval shoemaking all died centuries ago.  At best, I am a student of
> their work.  As such, I am continually learning more about these things,
and
> as I learn them, I will present them hear as I can.  To this end, I will
> present the research that I have done (when I am able to), as well as that
> done by those before me, and those who are currently doing such research
> today..
>
> Medieval Shoes from the Bata Museum Collection, Toronto, Ontario
> http://www.medievallife.com/Pages/Bata_Shoe_Museum1.htm
> A Collection of photographs on Medieval Shoes, covering three pages.
>
> Fragment of Medieval Shoe from Newcastle upon Tyne
> http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/old_fotm/old_fotmmr98/
> (Site Excerpt) During the course of excavations carried out at the
> waterfront in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1984-5, hundreds of fragments of
> leather were recovered from waterlogged deposits of the 13th century. They
> were incorporated in waste matter which was taken down to the riverside
and
> dumped as part of a process of land reclamation. Leather, textiles, wooden
> objects, ceramics and animal bones were all included in this material. The
> waterlogging had preserved the organic materials, with the result that the
> leather was in good condition. This included a knife sheath and some belt
> fragments, but most of it was in the form of fragments from cobblers'
> workshops: offcuts, scraps and worn-down soles.
>
> History of Shoes--Medieval Shoes
>
http://www.northampton.gov.uk/Museums/Collections/Boot_and_Shoe/History_of_S
hoes/Medieval_shoes.htm
> (Site Excerpt) Footwear styles continued to change during the Medieval
age.
> The sole and upper were no longer thonged but stitched together with
thread
> and the toe became a sharp point, known as scorpion tails, they began to
get
> longer in the 1320's and became known as pikes, crackowes or poulaines.
The
> length of ones toe was an indication of status. The King and his court had
> shoes with the largest toes. This style wasn't worn by women. The ankle
shoe
> remained popular, it was usually side laced with three pairs of holes.
>
> Making Medieval Arrowheads (This article is actually an article on making
> Medieval Shoes)
> http://www.the-exiles.org/essay/makingmedishoes.htm
> (Site Excerpt) Shoes in the late mediaeval period were constructed in a
> somewhat different manner to their modern day equivalent. The following is
a
> construction guide for anyone who wishes to make a pair of authentic
> turnsoles. What you will need: Sole Leather - 4-7mm thick vegetable tanned
;
> Upper leather - 1.5 - 3mm thick vegetable tanned ;A square of canvas about
> 40 - 50cm each side ;
> Two saddlers needles (heavy duty blunt needles) ; Linen thread ; An awl -
> diamond section, very sharp; A Stanley/Craft knife; A tape measure; A
pencil
> ; Scissors ; Leather thonging ; Beeswax
>
> Early Medieval Irish Shoes
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/4715/costume/shoes.html
> (Site Excerpt) Finding reference materials for early shoe types has turned
> into an exciting form of treasure hunt, but I'm starting to make some
> headway.  When 8 hardy souls met in an Emeryville, California house to
"make
> shoes" on April 6, 1997, we thought we had just about all the information
we
> needed to go ahead, and in fact, a number of attractive and comfortable
> pairs of shoes were made from the two buffalo hides we decided to buy as a
> group. When we started, we had a xerox copy of the out of print book
> Primitive Shoes by Margrethe Hald,  a printout of Footwear in the Middle
> Ages, by I. Marc Carlson, several art and archaelogy books on the Celts, a
> couple of paper patterns from a local tannery (now out of business) and
one
> of our number had made numerous shoes for Renaissance Faires.  It was a
> brave beginning, and we made the most of it.  Now that some time has
passed
> and more information is available, though, I'd recommend a somewhat
> different approach!
>
> Documention on the recreation of a pair of Medieval Hide Shoes
> http://www.carillion.eastkingdom.org/WELD_convt.pdf
> Adobe Acrobat required to view this research paper.
>
> MOAS Atlantia Shoemaking Links
> http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/shoe.htm
>
> How to Tie a Medieval Belt
> http://www.vikingmetalworks.com/belt.html
> (Site Excerpt) Step 1: Find a wide belt that is two to three feet longer
> than your usual size. This belt should have an open ring (not a standard
> buckle) of two or three inches in diameter depending on the width of the
> belt.
>
> Medieval Belt decorations
> http://www.geocities.com/garys_hoard/artefacts/item2.html
> This site is an amateur archaeologist's page with photos of meieval belt
> decorations.
>
> Post Medieval Collection
> http://www.cotswold.gov.uk/museum/AllPostMedieval.asp
> Archaeological photos of medieval belt fittings
>
> Leatherworking : 13th Century belt and pouch
> by Jurgen von Baden
> http://www.havenonline.com/moas/a_s_2000/beltpouch.htm
> (Site Excerpt) There were various forms of girdles used in the 13th
century.
> They are well illustrated in illuminations and effigies from this period.
> There have also been a number of girdles that have been excavated along
the
> Thames River in London. The excavated girdles were made of leather, silk,
> linen and wool. Judging from the excavated examples, and examining the
> surviving buckles and strap-ends, it seems likely that dress belts were
60mm
> or less in width throughout the period (Egan & Pritchard p. 35) I had a
> strap of leather approximately 40mm wide that I used for this piece. The
> leather strap that I used was pre-dyed black. One medieval method of
> obtaining a black dye would be to use madder with iron as a mordant.
Nearly
> all of the surviving examples made of leather were worn with the grain
> (smooth) side out and were usually made with a single thickness of
leather.
> This can be verified by observing which side the belt mounts were attached
> to. 13th Century girdles were typically fairly long and often reach to
> nearly the ankles in period illustrations. When I wear this particular
belt,
> it reaches to below my knees.
>
>
>
>
> SUMMER set lip to earth's bosom bare,
> And left the flush'd print in a poppy there;
> Like a yawn of fire from the grass it came,
> And the fanning wind puff'd it to flapping flame.  ----Francis Thompson,
The
> Poppy
>
>  "My friends are my estate."---- Emily Dickinson
>
> "I have undertaken  a labor,  a labor  out of  love  for
> the world, and to comfort noble hearts..."----GOTTFRIED VON STRASSBURG
>
> -
> To change your list status, send a single line message to
> sca-aethelmearc-request@andrew.cmu.edu
> Example:
> UNSUBSCRIBE sca-aethelmearc "Lis" <liontamr@ptd.net>
>
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 11:40:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFejHP021586
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:40:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFbWUw008099
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:37:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFbVX5009702;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:37:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFbRX5009654
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:37:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19VCKs-0008zY-0W
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:37:26 +0100
Message-ID: <p+8cJ+A1sb++IwfR@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:09:41 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tablet/inkle weaving (was: shiny trims etc.)
References: <001d01c33729$5c24faa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
 <20030620055119.38192.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>
 <001d01c33729$5c24faa0$02b00040@softwareinnovation.com>
 <h2yer9FD0y9+IwWX@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
 <5.2.0.9.0.20030624133444.00b29de8@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030624133444.00b29de8@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dawn Jacobson <dme_maud@pacbell.net> wrote
>At 05:38 PM 6/23/2003 +0100, Jean wrote:
>>  I'm not getting any links to pictures of looms in this thread, so I 
>>may be talking about the wrong thing.  But what I think of as an inkle 
>>loom has various horizontal bars or pegs that you can wind the warp 
>>around in  zig-zag patterns to get a lot of length in a short space. 
>>I have a much  simpler frame which is just a board with two upright 
>>posts, one at either  end, about six inches high.  I wind the warp 
>>around them as many times as  it needs (three lengths is practical - 
>>more is difficult) and just have  to re-fix it when I get from one 
>>post to the other.  When I'm weaving at  events, I'm careful to tell 
>>punters that there's no evidence they used  such a thing, but it's so 
>>much more practical than being tied to a  post.  I'm often doing it 
>>while keeping an eye on the camp during the big  battle, so I need to 
>>be able to jump up quickly.
>>
>>Jean
>Yes, the first thing you describe sounds like a lap/tabletop inkle 
>loom. I'm curious about your "board with 2 upright posts"; it sounds 
>similar to a warping board, and I'm curious how you weave on it.
>
Oh dear, we really are struggling without pictures!  It's just like 
doing a very short bit of tablet weaving, one end tied to each post. 
The board is about a yard long.  When I first got it, I tried tying the 
warp off to the posts, but my knots wouldn't hold the tension (I'm not 
good with knots!) so now I do as I would weaving from a belt, tie string 
through the first end and round the first post, then take the warp along 
the board, round post 2, along, round post 1 below the first end, along 
and tie the other end to post 2, again with string. Once I've woven as 
far as I can down the first length, I have to take it off and 
re-position it.  I use really long bits of string, so that it's fully 
adjustable even if the end needs to be only a few inches past the post.

I know it sounds really awkward, and you wouldn't want to do it on a 
really long piece, but it's just so easy to transport and store and 
handle, it gets my vote when we're camping.

Jean


>
>>Betsy Marshall <betsy@softwareinnovation.com> wrote
>>>I find myself interested in what
>>>you would suggest as an alternative?
>>>Betsy
>
>How about an English type inkle loom? There are plans for one in Byways 
>in Hand-Weaving by Mary Meigs Atwater, along with instructions on how 
>to do inkle weaving, tablet weaving, twined weaving, braiding, 
>knotting, and plaiting.
>
>I'm a little surprised that this book is not mentioned more often when 
>people are starting to learn different historic weaving techniques. 
>Published in 1954 and still in print (AFAIK), it's a good basic book 
>for any weaver's library.
>
>Dawn
>
>
>Dawn Jacobson
>Vallejo, CA, USA
>
>Clothes are the costumes we wear every day. 
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 11:41:07 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFf7HP021589
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:41:07 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFbxUw008167
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:37:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFbxX5010051;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:37:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net
	[194.217.242.90])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PFbRX5009655
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:37:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223])
	by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1)
	id 19VCKs-0008zZ-0W
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:37:27 +0100
Message-ID: <F+9XZCCxvb++Iw6w@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:12:49 +0100
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Jean Waddie <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny
	ornot?
References: <003101c33673$676e59d0$6401a8c0@mycomputer>
 <001f01c33679$20fcffa0$7b0877d8@pavilion>
 <YmqQvfGi1y9+Iww4@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
 <000c01c33ac1$7957c440$320977d8@pavilion>
In-Reply-To: <000c01c33ac1$7957c440$320977d8@pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Thanks for this information.  I'd only come across calendering in 
11th-12th century references, when it's done by hand with hemispherical 
glass calenders.

Jean


Lisa Sinervo <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com> wrote
>Calendering and using a mangle are one in the same, to my knowledge anyway.
>I've posted a scan of a commercial calender at
>http://www.threadneedlest.com/calendering.cfm  I'll be taking it down
>shortly.  It's from an old 1975 text book on Textiles called Textiles:
>Fiber to Fabric" by Corbman.  I picked it up on ebay for for a steal plus
>shipping.  It's handy to have around and I'd recommend anyone interested in
>costuming to at least have a look at an introductory textiles book if they
>at all have the time.
>
>Like a mangle, a calender has at least one smooth steel roll and usually if
>not always one soft roll made of wool, cotton or cotton and corn husks.  The
>fabric passes between the two rolls in a space called a nip.  The text
>states that fabric is passed through the nip at an average rate of 150 yards
>per minute under pressure of 40 to 60 tons, and sometimes as much as 100
>tons.  After passing through the calender, the fabric is wound up on the
>back of the machine.
>
>There is another type of calender that is used to produce glazed finishes.
>This one has a similar set up but the gears are set so that the hot steel
>drums roll faster than the fabric that is passing through the nip.  This
>creates friction and produces a glazed finish.  An application of starch,
>glue, mucilage or shellac is often preceded by friction calendering.
>
>There is also a process called schreinering which uses a calender with small
>lines etched into the steel roller.  When cheap cotton fabric is passed
>through this machine, miniscule ridges (125 to 600 per inch) are impressed
>in the fabric causing light to reflect off of it making the fabric appear
>lustrous.  Unfortunately, these ridges disappear after you wash the garment
>a few times.  Another reason cheap clothes look so much better at the shop
>then they do after you wear them a few times.
>
>I'd be most interested in hearing about the Venitian reference for
>calendering.  I'd not heard about that.  Please tell me more and where this
>info popped up.
>
>rgds,
>
>Lisa
>
>fyi -
>
>Main Entry: mu·ci·lage
>Pronunciation: 'myü-s(&-)lij
>Function: noun
>Etymology: Middle English muscilage, from Late Latin mucilago mucus, musty
>juice, from Latin mucus
>Date: 15th century
>1 : a gelatinous substance of various plants (as legumes or seaweeds) that
>contains protein and polysaccharides and is similar to plant gums
>2 : an aqueous usually viscid solution (as of a gum) used especially as an
>adhesive
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jean Waddie" <anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
>To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
>Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Calendering silk-was:Renaissance period silk shiny
>ornot?
>
>
>> Could you explain a bit more - is the mangle used to do the calendering
>> (with very smooth rollers?) or is it another part of a several-stage
>> process?
>>
>> Jean
>>
>>
>> Lisa Sinervo <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com> wrote
>> >Yes, callendering is used to produce a sheen.  Pressure on the fabric
>makes
>> >the surface more compact & smooth and this changes the way it reflects
>> >light, thus producing shininess.
>> >
>> >Lisa
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 15:42:08 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PJg7HP022319
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:42:08 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PJcuUw004780
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:38:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PJcnwM010164;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:38:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.50])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PJciwM010091
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:38:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from 216-119-007-160.jps.net ([216.119.7.160] helo=pavilion)
	by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19VG6N-0001IB-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:38:44 -0700
Message-ID: <001601c33b53$8b15ec60$a00777d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" <lisa-list@threadneedlest.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<20030621040838.95497.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com><5.1.0.14.0.20030624124637.02e337c0@127.0.0.1>
	<099901c33a8d$6c5d7610$0400a8c0@compaqub>
Subject: A mystery solved?  Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:54:08 -0700
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Just this morning I came across a little tid bit of info that my shed some
light on this yellowing bleached linen.   My Textiles: Fiber to Fabric book
recommends that one always read the label before bleaching cotton because
although cotton itself is safely bleached in ordinary household bleach, some
of the finishes are "chlorine retentive -they turn yellow when subjected to
sodium hypochlorite bleaches".  So if these same finishes are sometimes
applied to linen too, linen with the finishes may yellow and while untreated
linen might not.

Food for thought!

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "E House" <formfunction@cox.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye remover, bleach, & linen


> It's clear, and I'm in the US; the yellowing happens no matter what color
> the linen is (and it yellows darker than the original color, for light
> colors) and it occured when I used other vats, and in ceramics as well.
I've
> never done it with a washing machine, because I don't have one!
>
> Honestly, I'm surprised no one else has had this experience on this
> list--I've heard similar experiences all over the place elsewhere.
>
> E
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Jun 25 19:03:45 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PN3jHP022923
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:03:45 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PN0OUw028746
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:00:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PN0Iqt002625;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:00:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PN0Fqt002587
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:00:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5PN0EHm023637
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:00:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [136.152.196.229] (tnt-1-37.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.229])
	by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5PN01gC023217
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:00:12 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p05100304bb1fccbbc34d@[136.152.197.43]>
In-Reply-To: <03ca01c33ae6$ab3e9400$a4664ed5@pavilion>
References: <20030624.163154.900.3.Cley@juno.com>
 <03ca01c33ae6$ab3e9400$a4664ed5@pavilion>
X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:06:58 -0700
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 7:54 AM +0100 6/25/03, Melanie Wilson wrote:
>  >Were there such garments in Europe? I know they did sock and hats, but
>I've never heard of tunics before.
>
>There are finds of possible sleeves put these could be hose.


Or, to be even more technical, there are finds of tubular fabrics of 
a size that would be compatible with either sleeves or leggings, but 
of uncertain use.


>  It is thought
>possible to probably that there were tunics etc

Do you recall who it was who thinks this is probable?  Europe does 
seem to have had a conceptual category for "textile techniques used 
only or primarily for small, highly-shaped accessories but not for 
body garments", so I'd be interested to know if the reasoning is 
stronger than "they used it for hats and socks so they must have used 
it for tunics".

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 02:08:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q68VHP026408
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:08:31 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q5veUw002783
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:57:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q5vcB5025054;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:57:38 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q5vWB5025005
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:57:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pavilion (213-78-106-35.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.106.35])
	3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id AEU40402;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:57:24 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <00d801c33ba8$522978e0$236a4ed5@pavilion>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: 
	<20030624.163154.900.3.Cley@juno.com><03ca01c33ae6$ab3e9400$a4664ed5@pavilion>
	<p05100304bb1fccbbc34d@[136.152.197.43]>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sprang Tunic
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:00:59 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>Do you recall who it was who thinks this is probable?  Europe does
seem to have had a conceptual category for "textile techniques used
only or primarily for small, highly-shaped accessories but not for
body garments", so I'd be interested to know if the reasoning is
stronger than "they used it for hats and socks so they must have used
it for tunics".

Not off hand, it is hard to get the full reports and many of them are in
Danish or Germany so I'm still wading through them !

There are instances of sprang with tablet woven bands, which are interesting

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 05:37:46 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q9bkHP027629
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:37:46 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q9R2Uw015330
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:27:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q9R0xG014113;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:27:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q9QuxG014057
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:26:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by
	mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h5Q9Qtp13722.; Thu, 26 Jun
	2003 10:26:55 +0100 (BST)
Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk
	with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:26:55 +0100
Message-Id: <sefaca6f.048@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:26:27 +0100
From: "Kate M Bunting" <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm back!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Back from a fantastic stay in Orkney looking at wildlife and the
numerous archaeological sites. Nothing costume-related to report except
that I saw a 19th century Scots bonnet in the Kirkwall museum and 2
Ayrshire whitework children's dresses in another.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 14:43:30 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QIhTHP029145
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:43:30 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QINeUw004825
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:23:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QINZGo026253;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:23:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QINIGo026082
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:23:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HH3002C1PQSXJ@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:13:34 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm back!
In-reply-to: <sefaca6f.048@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030626111200.02e5c330@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 10:26 AM 6/26/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Back from a fantastic stay in Orkney looking at wildlife and the
>numerous archaeological sites.


Welcome Back Kate,

I wanna go to Orkney, or Isle of Skye, or any Scottish places... someday. 
Someday I will make that trip to the British Isles and visit the many 
museums and other places I have read so much about.

{sigh}

Kimiko


Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 15:52:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QJqpHP029277
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:52:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QJYeUw012946
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:34:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QJYZVv020326;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:34:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QJYVVv020200
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:34:31 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.1db.cb2f3ba (657)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:34:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <1db.cb2f3ba.2c2ca4bf@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:34:23 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] "Gros de Naples"
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I'm reading a novel, and since it takes place in the 19th century, there are 
a few terms that I'm unfamiliar with- since I'm usually wandering through 
Elizabethan England.  Anyway, enough of my prattle.
What, exactly, is "gros de Naples"?  From what I can tell it seems to be a 
kind of fabric, but I'm not really sure- and all I can find are fashion plates!  
I mean, if I went by the French translation from my classes, I'd come up with 
"fat of Naples".  Which just sounds...odd!
Also, what is fichu?  Couldn't find a clear definition or description of 
that, either.  

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 16:16:43 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QKGhHP029325
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:16:43 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QJwiUw015914
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:58:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QJwfIQ011509;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:58:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QJwaIQ011385
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:58:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
	by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.16f.20a2eb10 (16110)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:58:26 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from  cs.com (mow-m20.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.136]) by
	air-id12.mx.aol.com (v94.29) with ESMTP id MAILINID122-3eee3efb50611d0; Thu,
	26 Jun 2003 15:58:25 -0400
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:58:25 -0400
From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com
To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume)
Subject: RE: [h-cost] "Gros de Naples"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7F2FE114.5F48AAA5.349D0FDF@cs.com>
X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi- 
Gros de Naples is a heavy silk with a matte finish, corded from selvedge to selvedge(like Grosgrain ribbon).  The "gros" is because the warp strings are fat.

A fichu is a shawl (usually triangular) worn by women over the shoulders, pinned in front or worn to fill in a low neckline.  

Constance

IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote:

>I'm reading a novel, and since it takes place in the 19th century, there are 
>a few terms that I'm unfamiliar with- since I'm usually wandering through 
>Elizabethan England.  Anyway, enough of my prattle.
>What, exactly, is "gros de Naples"?  From what I can tell it seems to be a 
>kind of fabric, but I'm not really sure- and all I can find are fashion plates!  
>I mean, if I went by the French translation from my classes, I'd come up with 
>"fat of Naples".  Which just sounds...odd!
>Also, what is fichu?  Couldn't find a clear definition or description of 
>that, either.  
>
>Christine
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 16:20:51 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QKKpHP029338
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:20:51 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QK2sUw016386
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:02:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QK2rIQ014468;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:02:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QK2mIQ014420
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:02:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from modem-3191.leopard.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.156.119]
	helo=lance5)	by cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14)
	id 19VcxD-0005pi-JQ
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:02:47 +0100
From: "Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth" <lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:06:39 +0100
Message-ID: <NGBBKKKMCLABDJOENMIAIENPCBAA.lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <200306261803.h5QI1aGr009433@net.indra.com>
Importance: Normal
Subject: [h-cost] Orkney Archaeology
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

> Back from a fantastic stay in Orkney looking at wildlife and the
> numerous archaeological sites. Nothing costume-related to report except
> that I saw a 19th century Scots bonnet in the Kirkwall museum and 2
> Ayrshire whitework children's dresses in another.
>
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby

Kate, did you visit Orphir.  I have very fond memories of that place, I
spent a few weeks excavating there in 1987 (oh my god I feel old) and our
archaeology professor took us all round the sites on Mainland.  Did you go
inside Maes Howe?  And isn't the ring of Brodgar wonderful?  I must get back
there one of these days.

Freyalyn


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 16:45:16 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QKjFHP029403
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:45:15 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QKRFUw019593
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:27:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QKRBIQ006845;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:27:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QKQtIQ006580
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:26:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com
	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.165.21ebe358 (657)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:26:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Message-ID: <165.21ebe358.2c2cb107@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:26:47 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Gros de Naples"
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/26/03 4:07:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
ConstanceFairfax@cs.com writes:

> Gros de Naples is a heavy silk with a matte finish, corded from selvedge to 
> selvedge(like Grosgrain ribbon).  The "gros" is because the warp strings are 
> fat.
> 
> A fichu is a shawl (usually triangular) worn by women over the shoulders, 
> pinned in front or worn to fill in a low neckline.  
> 
> 

Ooh, thank you!  Now things make a bit more sense- even if the character 
*wearing* the Gros de Naples dress probably looked horrid in it.  Though now I can 
see why the character wearing the fichu needed it- she kept tugging her 
bodice down like a wench at Renfaire!
Yes, it's a romance novel.  I finished Order of the Phoenix and needed some 
nice, no-angst mush.  

Christine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 17:40:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QLeCHP029600
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:40:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QLOeUw026531
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:24:41 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QLOaLf029007;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:24:36 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law8-f53.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.53])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QLOXLf028838
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:24:33 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:24:27 -0700
Received: from 207.96.224.159 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:24:27 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [207.96.224.159]
X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com]
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin2@hotmail.com>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Gros de Naples"
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:24:27 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <Law8-F53j9R5FyGYPyZ00078a30@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2003 21:24:27.0989 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[52F92050:01C33C29]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>Also, what is fichu?  Couldn't find a clear definition or description of
>that, either.

Usually, it's a piece of cloth you wear on your head. Nowadays, could be 
around your neck too, but the usual is on the head. I've seen it used most 
often in modern language to refer to a triangular piece of (often white) 
cloth worn on the head and tied at the nape of the neck.

Don't assume it was the same at the time your novel takes place though. This 
is just a possible avenue :-)

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 21:15:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1FSHP029947
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:15:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R0xTUw020285
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:59:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R0xPJs018449;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:59:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R0xMJs018341
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:59:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from GENTEELARTS (user186.net857.oh.sprint-hsd.net [69.34.22.186])
	by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h5R0xGx28836
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:59:17 -0500
From: "Carolann Schmitt" <cschmitt@genteelarts.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] 2004 Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:59:13 -0400
Message-ID: <002901c33c47$53d21f90$0200a8c0@GENTEELARTS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
In-Reply-To: <1db.cb2f3ba.2c2ca4bf@aol.com>
Importance: Normal
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Please excuse the duplicate post if you are on another list.

The Genteel Arts Academy is pleased to announce the 2004 Ladies and
Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference.  The conference will be held March 5-7,
2004 in Harrisburg, PA.  In celebration of its tenth anniversary, the
conference is expanding this year to present a full program of presentations
on the clothing and culture of the mid-nineteenth century with programs of
interest for both ladies and gentlemen.   The conference also features
extensive displays of original clothing and artifacts, pre-conference focus
sessions and workshops, a juried vendor area and several social activities.

Complete details, including registration information, is available at
www.genteelarts.com
(We are still working on some of the links, but all the information is
available for viewing.)  Early registration is encouraged; last year's
conference was sold out!

Carolann Schmitt
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference - March 7-9, 2004


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 21:52:57 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1quHP030009
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:52:56 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1bHUw023752
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:37:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1bGJs006143;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:37:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1bBJs006075
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:37:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 80CF210EF2B
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:37:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <006b01c33c4c$9ea217f0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <002901c33c47$53d21f90$0200a8c0@GENTEELARTS>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2004 Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:37:06 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oh. My. G*d. This is TWENTY MINUTES from my house!

How exciting! Thank you!!

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolann Schmitt" <cschmitt@genteelarts.com>
To: "'Historical Costume'" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:59 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] 2004 Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference


> Please excuse the duplicate post if you are on another list.
>
> The Genteel Arts Academy is pleased to announce the 2004 Ladies and
> Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference.  The conference will be held March 5-7,
> 2004 in Harrisburg, PA.  In celebration of its tenth anniversary, the
> conference is expanding this year to present a full program of
presentations
> on the clothing and culture of the mid-nineteenth century with programs of
> interest for both ladies and gentlemen.   The conference also features
> extensive displays of original clothing and artifacts, pre-conference
focus
> sessions and workshops, a juried vendor area and several social
activities.
>
> Complete details, including registration information, is available at
> www.genteelarts.com
> (We are still working on some of the links, but all the information is
> available for viewing.)  Early registration is encouraged; last year's
> conference was sold out!
>
> Carolann Schmitt
> cschmitt@genteelarts.com
> www.genteelarts.com
> Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference - March 7-9, 2004
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 22:09:13 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R29CHP030025
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:09:12 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1roUw024883
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:53:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1rnJs012963;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:53:49 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net
	[66.92.53.140])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R1rhJt012934
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:53:43 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5R1s6He021020
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:54:06 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]])
	by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5R1s6tZ021018
	for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:54:06 -0400
From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Gros de Naples"
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:54:06 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <Law8-F53j9R5FyGYPyZ00078a30@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <Law8-F53j9R5FyGYPyZ00078a30@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306262154.06035.cathy@thyrsus.com>
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

On Thursday 26 June 2003 05:24 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:
> >Also, what is fichu?  Couldn't find a clear definition or description of
> >that, either.
>
> Usually, it's a piece of cloth you wear on your head. Nowadays, could be
> around your neck too, but the usual is on the head. I've seen it used most
> often in modern language to refer to a triangular piece of (often white)
> cloth worn on the head and tied at the nape of the neck.


Nope, sorry.  A fichu was *not* headwear in the Victorian era.  A fichu was a 
kind of shoulder wrap, used for decoration and not warmth.  The American 
Heritage Dictionary still defines the term thus:

http:/http://www.bartleby.com/61/36/F0103600.html

For a slightly more expansive definition from an on-line costume dictionary:

http://www.geocities.com/kathrynewilson/app.html

Lace ones were particularly popular in the 1850s and 1860s.  For pictures 
reproduced from period sources, see:

http://www.originals-by-kay.com/sources/ball/fichus.shtm

Hope this helps.

--
Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
 
"You live and learn, or you don't live long."
 Robert Heinlein

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Jun 26 22:39:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R2dLHP030073
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:39:21 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R2NtUw027253
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:23:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R2Nrhx026308;
	Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:23:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hotmail.com (law8-oe61.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.196])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R2Nnhx026242
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:23:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:23:44 -0700
Received: from 24.201.196.91 by law8-oe61.law8.hotmail.com with DAV;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:23:44 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [24.201.196.91]
X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com]
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin2@hotmail.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <Law8-F53j9R5FyGYPyZ00078a30@hotmail.com>
	<200306262154.06035.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Gros de Naples"
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:24:24 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <Law8-OE61Jh9l679Ban0000ea94@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2003 02:23:44.0714 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[2203EAA0:01C33C53]
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Well, that's exactly what I'm saying.
I said don't assume it meant the same thing then than what I hear it used
for now.
I said it's what *I*, *now*, hear it used for.
So don't go telling around I mislead you, because I didn't. I said it was a
possible avenue, and that you shouldn't assume that it was the same thing at
the time the novel takes place.

Je connais assez bien mon français pour avoir entendu le terme "fichu", et
utilisé assez souvent pour savoir ce qu'il veut dire dans la langue parlée
actuelle.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" <cathy@thyrsus.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Gros de Naples"


> On Thursday 26 June 2003 05:24 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:
> > >Also, what is fichu?  Couldn't find a clear definition or description
of
> > >that, either.
> >
> > Usually, it's a piece of cloth you wear on your head. Nowadays, could be
> > around your neck too, but the usual is on the head. I've seen it used
most
> > often in modern language to refer to a triangular piece of (often white)
> > cloth worn on the head and tied at the nape of the neck.
>
>
> Nope, sorry.  A fichu was *not* headwear in the Victorian era.  A fichu
was a
> kind of shoulder wrap, used for decoration and not warmth.  The American
> Heritage Dictionary still defines the term thus:
>
> http:/http://www.bartleby.com/61/36/F0103600.html
>
> For a slightly more expansive definition from an on-line costume
dictionary:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/kathrynewilson/app.html
>
> Lace ones were particularly popular in the 1850s and 1860s.  For pictures
> reproduced from period sources, see:
>
> http://www.originals-by-kay.com/sources/ball/fichus.shtm
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> --
> Cathy Raymond <cathy@thyrsus.com>
>
> "You live and learn, or you don't live long."
>  Robert Heinlein
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 04:11:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R8BwHP014724
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 04:11:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R88SUw020102
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:08:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R88NiN023451;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:08:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5R88IiN023430
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:08:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by
	mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h5R88Gp16889.; Fri, 27 Jun
	2003 09:08:17 +0100 (BST)
Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk
	with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:08:16 +0100
Message-Id: <sefc0980.029@CSV6.derby.ac.uk>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.0 
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:07:45 +0100
From: "Kate M Bunting" <K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orkney Archaeology
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Freyalyn wrote:

>.Kate, did you visit Orphir.  I have very fond memories of that place,
I
>spent a few weeks excavating there in 1987 (oh my god I feel old) and
our
>archaeology professor took us all round the sites on Mainland.  Did
you go
>inside Maes Howe?  And isn't the ring of Brodgar wonderful?  I must
get >back there one of these days.

Orphir is where there are remains of a round church, isn't it? There is
now a little visitor centre there where you can see a video about the
Orkneyinga Saga and the murder that took place there.
Yes, we went inside Maes Howe, and to Skara Brae (which I had been
longing to see) as well as to some more remote and uncommercialised
sites. I loved the way the Ring of Brodgar and the Stones of Stenness
are visible from one another.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 08:11:32 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RCBWHP001848
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:11:32 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RCB0Uw006927
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:11:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RCAwqp027485;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:10:58 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RCAtqp027424
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:10:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Marionetta@aol.com
	by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.133.21ec9925 (1320)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:10:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marionetta@aol.com
Message-ID: <133.21ec9925.2c2d8e44@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:10:44 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 25
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] plaid linen what period?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


Hi all,

I saw some nice linen at my local joanns for only $2/yard.   The thing is 
it's a large rose colored plaid, the sort of thing I see in 1860s-1870s 
dresses...but was linen as widely used then?   Or would a large plaid work for 
something like a colonial era dress but I just haven't seen it?   Or should I just 
pass up the stuff?   Thanks.

Cheers,

Loren
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 12:20:21 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGKKHP002393
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:20:20 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RG4JUw028220
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:04:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RG4EkL023874;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:04:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RG0xkL021583
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:01:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pavilion (213-78-121-150.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.150])
	3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id AET59193;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:00:48 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <00f201c33cc5$d7580680$467b4ed5@pavilion>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "LIST H costume" <h-costume@indra.com>,
   "LIST Costume UK" <COSTUMEUK@yahoogroups.com>,
   <VictorianLiveRolePlayUK@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:04:37 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Subject: [h-cost] What a scortcher Costume Museum Notts
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

25th June to 7th Sept History of beachwear 

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 12:21:06 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGL5HP002397
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:21:05 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RG5iUw028389
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:05:44 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RG5gkL024980;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:05:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RG2DkL022584
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:02:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pavilion (213-78-121-150.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.150])
	3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id AET59317;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:02:09 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <00f301c33cc6$08616e60$467b4ed5@pavilion>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: <VictorianLiveRolePlayUK@yahoogroups.com>, <costumeuk@yahoogroups.com>,
   "LIST H costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:06:12 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Subject: [h-cost] Corset making workshop uk
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Costume museum Notts Thurs Fri 21 22 August £50

0115 915 3500

Mel
This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 12:54:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGsMHP002512
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:54:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGcsUw002350
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:38:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGcrkL024230;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:38:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGaCkL021419
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:36:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from patriot.net (support.patriot.net [209.249.176.6])
	by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h5RGaBUZ016503
	for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:36:11 -0400
Message-Id: <200306271636.h5RGaBUZ016503@jefferson.patriot.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:32:40 -0000
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset making workshop uk
From: <aquazoo@patriot.net>
X-Mailer: TWIG 2.3.2
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi Melanie,

     Does this mean the costume museum in Nottingham is still open?  Rumor had 
it the museum is going to close, and one recent visitor said it already closed. 
:-(

     Also, what era of corsets for the workshop?

     -Carol


Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk> said:

> Costume museum Notts Thurs Fri 21 22 August £50
> 
> 0115 915 3500
> 
> Mel0

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 13:26:52 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RHQpHP002627
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:26:52 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RHA4V0006406
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:11:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGrJkL007801;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:53:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RGn2kL003056
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:49:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pavilion (213-78-121-150.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.150])
	3.2.2-GA)	with SMTP id AET64768;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:48:54 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <017701c33ccc$8f0b8e40$467b4ed5@pavilion>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <200306271636.h5RGaBUZ016503@jefferson.patriot.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset making workshop uk
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:52:55 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

>Does this mean the costume museum in Nottingham is still open?  Rumor had
it the museum is going to close, and one recent visitor said it already
closed.
:-(

Well they have a lot on for a closed museum :) I thought it had closed
too...

  >   Also, what era of corsets for the workshop?

emphasis on Victorian and Edwardian it sayes

Mel



This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 14:39:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RIddHP003095
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:39:39 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RId6Uw017840
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:39:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RId2iw014094;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:39:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RIXgiw009179
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:33:42 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com ([129.8.206.192])
 by shadow.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May
 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HH5007RKKW5XI@shadow.csufresno.edu> for
 h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:33:42 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:23:51 -0700
From: Kimiko Small <kimiko@kimiko1.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaid linen what period?
In-reply-to: <133.21ec9925.2c2d8e44@aol.com>
X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030627112300.02e2f080@127.0.0.1>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Antivirus: avast!, Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 08:10 AM 6/27/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>I saw some nice linen at my local joanns for only $2/yard.


Was it actual linen, or a blend? Just curious as I am looking for something 
like this for modern clothes. Wish I had an answer on your questions.

Kimiko



Kimiko Small
Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell

Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
http://www.costumegallery.com

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 15:28:22 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RJSLHP003217
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:28:22 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RJRsUw023886
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:27:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RJRqtu027993;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:27:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com
	[205.179.178.102])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RJRntu027956
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:27:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: by jabberwock.wonderland.com (Postfix, from userid 313)
	id 8FD712F933; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaid linen what period?
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030627112300.02e2f080@127.0.0.1> from "Kimiko
	Small" at Jun 27, 2003 11:23:51 AM
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <20030627192851.8FD712F933@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
From: alice@wonderland.com (Heather Meadows)
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

for $2 a yard, I'd buy it and overdye it some nice dark color
for elizabethans.


> 
> At 08:10 AM 6/27/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >I saw some nice linen at my local joanns for only $2/yard.
> 
> 
> Was it actual linen, or a blend? Just curious as I am looking for something 
> like this for modern clothes. Wish I had an answer on your questions.
> 
> Kimiko
> 
> 
> 
> Kimiko Small
> Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother
> kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com
> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell
> 
> Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 17:51:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RLpPHP003527
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:51:25 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RLovUw010340
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:50:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RLotil025510;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:50:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5RLopil025387
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:50:51 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com
	by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.163.229084b0 (3874)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:50:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <163.229084b0.2c2e1631@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:50:41 EDT
Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaid linen what period?
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 910
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

In a message dated 6/27/03 2:43:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kimiko@kimiko1.com writes:

> Was it actual linen, or a blend? Just curious 

Me too.

I'd go ahead and get it, if you like it. Make a mid 19th century dress out of 
it. Just make it a summer outfit. Y'know, with an unfitted jacket if 
1860s.....for the beach or outdoor activities. You could do clever things with turning 
the plaid on the bias for decoration. 

It'll be lovely....you know it! Accurate....probably though I cannot document 
it off the top of my head.

I've got a poly/linen blend that looks like raw linen with an ox blood double 
window pane woven in it. I'm going to make an 1840s day dress out of it. It 
just keeps asking me to. It will look great. It's got the right feel and is not 
glaringly inaccurate....though maybe a little hard to document.
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Jun 27 20:45:54 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5S0jsHP004159
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:45:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5S0jOUw028627
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:45:24 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5S0jMso022588;
	Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:45:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (smtp.austarmetro.com.au
	[203.166.224.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5S0jFso022465
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:45:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ewalpole (dialup-183.34.194.203.acc01-nort-cbr.comindico.com.au
	[203.194.34.183])h5S0j4pe024346
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:45:05 +1000
Message-ID: <000001c33d0d$e2368980$b722c2cb@ewalpole>
From: "Elizabeth Walpole" <ewalpole@austar.net.au>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:13:18 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

May I suggest either putting such info on your website e.g. it's OK to link
to any of my pages/ my front-page not others, provided you are a nonprofit
organisation/ are not a terrorist / would be willing to send me your life
savings ;-) etc.
Or the other solution could be to have a message saying yes you may link to
my site in whatever wording you chose, save it on your hard drive & send it
out in reply to any messages asking for permission, rather than needing to
compose a new message each time.
Elizabeth Walpole
-----Original Message-----
From: N Kipar <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites


> Personally, I am annoyed when I am being asked, because frankly I don't
have
>the time nor energy to answer emails that are unnecessary. It's extra
polite,
>granted, but my very own personal feeling is: oh no! please do and don't
bother
>me!
>
>No offense meant to anyone who ever contacted me/thought of contacting, and
>might not have received an answer or a three letter one a la 'yes'. It's
just
>me. :-)
>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give
it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment.   ~
J.R.R. Tolkien
>
>Email: nicole@kipar.org
>URL: http://www.kipar.org
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
>Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 28 06:09:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SA9HHP008016
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 06:09:17 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SA7UUw009817
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:07:30 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SA7QBV005123;
	Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:07:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SA7IBV005057
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:07:19 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from modem-3895.lynx.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.207.55] helo=lance5)
	by cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14)
	id 19WCc1-00048t-Jz
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:07:17 +0100
From: "Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth" <lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:11:04 +0100
Message-ID: <NGBBKKKMCLABDJOENMIACEOCCBAA.lynn@close-hainsworth.fslife.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <200306271801.h5RI19j1010549@net.indra.com>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Subject: [h-cost] Orkney
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 as well as to some more remote and uncommercialised
> sites. I loved the way the Ring of Brodgar and the Stones of Stenness
> are visible from one another.

There is a theory that the prehistoric sites at Orkney were all part of a
great ritual procession from one to another - I love to imagine progressions
of people in the incredibly long light evenings that far north.  And I'd
forgotten the tiny circular church - I worked on Earl's Bu, the longhouses
of the Earls of Orkney, and I was there when we found the souterrain and the
gold bracelet.

Freyalyn


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 28 08:22:18 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SCMHHP008589
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 08:22:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SCK6Uw018979
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 28 Jun 2003 06:20:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SCK5ZZ027606;
	Sat, 28 Jun 2003 06:20:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com
	[66.218.93.89])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5SCK1ZZ027552
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 06:20:01 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030628121956.36265.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:19:56 BST
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:19:56 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= <nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] protocol in linking to other costume sites
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <000001c33d0d$e2368980$b722c2cb@ewalpole>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

 --- Elizabeth Walpole <ewalpole@austar.net.au> wrote: > May I suggest either
putting such info on your website e.g. it's OK to link
> to any of my pages/ my front-page not others, provided you are a nonprofit
> organisation/ are not a terrorist / would be willing to send me your life
> savings ;-) etc.

I like the latter! *winks* I just came back doing a serious LUSH beauty stuff
and BeneFit cosmetics shop in Bluewater. :-))) I'm turning back into 'woman'
heeeeelp! *LOL*

It's a good idea Elizabeth and I'll do that, because I am at long last in the
final moments of a total major serious web site overhaul (no more frames). Thus
deep linking won't even be a problem anymore, though of course linking to a
picture is bandwitdh theft.

Nicole

=====
Men Die. Cattle Die. Word-Fame Lives Forever.      ~ Old Norse Aphorism

Email: nicole@kipar.org
URL: http://www.kipar.org

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Jun 28 18:48:04 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SMm4HP011798
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 18:48:04 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SMkvUw003291
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:46:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SMksnv012194;
	Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:46:54 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.243])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5SMkqnv012185
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:46:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dialup-171.75.228.5.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net
	([171.75.228.5] helo=Dan)
	by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19WOT5-00082d-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 18:46:51 -0400
Message-ID: <026c01c33dc7$54bf1120$2ddf4bab@Dan>
From: "Genie" <kerowyn@mindspring.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:48:01 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] Illuminatuing the Renaissance
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id h5SMm4HP011798
Status: RO

Has anyone here read Lois McMaster Bujold's "The Curse of Chalion"??
It's a wonderful alternate world based on Spanish history.

Genie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 29 06:01:06 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TA16HP021530
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 06:01:06 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TA0WUw013527
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:00:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TA0T3S002295;
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:00:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from web41006.mail.yahoo.com (web41006.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.5])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5TA0Q3S002267
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:00:27 -0600 (MDT)
Message-ID: <20030629100021.92498.qmail@web41006.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [213.237.104.69] by web41006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 03:00:21 PDT
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 03:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tania Gruning <tania_gr17@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Illuminatuing the Renaissance
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
In-Reply-To: <026c01c33dc7$54bf1120$2ddf4bab@Dan>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I really liked it. Have all her books, I cannot rightly remember her saying anything special about clothes.
Tania

Genie <kerowyn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Has anyone here read Lois McMaster Bujold's "The Curse of Chalion"??
It's a wonderful alternate world based on Spanish history.

Genie
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 29 18:18:28 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMISHP027122
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 18:18:28 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMHeUw000670
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:17:40 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMHVe3006105;
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:17:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com
	[24.94.166.129])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMHSe3006090
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:17:29 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-25-159.mn.rr.com
	[65.29.25.159])h5TMHQVA015715
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:17:26 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030629171022.022aec50@pop-server.mn.rr.com>
X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:16:20 -0500
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Melanie's underwear
In-Reply-To: <3EF92B4F.5070808@faucet.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624201656.00a37480@pop3.lfchosting.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

At 11:55 PM 6/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:

<snip>

>They've never ever twisted.  Of course, being an Elizabethan corset, all 
>the boning channels are straight up and down, but I've never had a problem 
>with flat steel twisting in the channels.  Well, the boning itself cannot 
>twist--it's just a flat piece of steel.  I guess any twisting would be the 
>fabric twisting around the bones, but I've never had that happen.  I 
>always make the channels just big enough to get the bones through.

<snip>

>Melanie Schuessler
>http://www.faucet.net/costume

Hey Mel,

I've actually had 1/2 spring steel twist on one occasion.  It was in my 
effigy style corset in the larger front channels which originally held the 
wider whale bones: http://costume.dm.net/images/westminster-corset.jpg  Or 
you can see what channels I mean in Drea's reconstruction:
http://costume.dm.net/effigy.htm . Initially I used a double layer of 
spring steel but they noticably twisted, the twist lessened when I removed 
one from each casing.  It was quite odd but that is the *only* time I've 
ever encountered it.

Cheers,
Danielle (who is very glad to have power again!)

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 29 18:26:26 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMQQHP027137
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 18:26:26 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMQ1Uw002021
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:26:02 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMQ0e3011041;
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:26:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mta01bw.bigpond.com (mta01bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.78])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TMPue3010944
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:25:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from clarke ([144.135.24.84]) by mta01bw.bigpond.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55)
          with SMTP id HH9KZK00.4UI for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun
          2003 08:26:08 +1000 
Received: from 144.139.223.64 ([144.139.223.64]) by
	bwmam06.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2g 47/17617221); 30 Jun 2003 08:25:32
Message-ID: <004d01c33e8d$63ebbb50$40df8b90@clarke>
From: "Claire Clarke" <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030629100021.92498.qmail@web41006.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Illuminatuing the Renaissance
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:25:37 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tania Gruning" <tania_gr17@yahoo.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Illuminatuing the Renaissance


> I really liked it. Have all her books, I cannot rightly remember her
saying anything special about clothes.
> Tania
>
> Genie <kerowyn@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Has anyone here read Lois McMaster Bujold's "The Curse of Chalion"??
> It's a wonderful alternate world based on Spanish history.
>
>
Likewise - I love all her stuff, but I can't remember that it struck me as
being
particularly Spanish. Not like say 'The Lions of Al-Rassan' by Guy Gavriel
Kay.
Then again I don't know a great deal about Spain.

Claire

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 29 19:45:37 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TNjbHP027240
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:45:37 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TNiFUw007975
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:44:15 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TNiBBw016432;
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:44:11 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net
	[207.69.200.57])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TNi9Bw016415
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:44:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from dialup-171.75.228.128.dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net
	([171.75.228.128] helo=Dan)
	by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19Wlq4-0003u3-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:44:09 -0400
Message-ID: <00f601c33e98$80dca200$14df4bab@Dan>
From: "Genie" <kerowyn@mindspring.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <20030629100021.92498.qmail@web41006.mail.yahoo.com>
	<004d01c33e8d$63ebbb50$40df8b90@clarke>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Illuminatuing the Renaissance
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 18:45:20 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

I believe it was in an online interview somewhere, and she made specific
mention of the fact the it came from her fascination with the particular
period and also a desire to make the history come out right.  No, no costume
information of particular note in it.

Genie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claire Clarke" <Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Illuminatuing the Renaissance


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tania Gruning" <tania_gr17@yahoo.com>
> To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Illuminatuing the Renaissance
>
>
> > I really liked it. Have all her books, I cannot rightly remember her
> saying anything special about clothes.
> > Tania
> >
> > Genie <kerowyn@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone here read Lois McMaster Bujold's "The Curse of Chalion"??
> > It's a wonderful alternate world based on Spanish history.
> >
> >
> Likewise - I love all her stuff, but I can't remember that it struck me as
> being
> particularly Spanish. Not like say 'The Lions of Al-Rassan' by Guy Gavriel
> Kay.
> Then again I don't know a great deal about Spain.
>
> Claire
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sun Jun 29 23:02:58 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5U32wHP027671
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:02:58 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5U305Uw023641
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:00:05 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5U302V8011289;
	Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:00:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5U300V8011257
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:00:00 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 85870 invoked by uid 1005); 30 Jun 2003 02:59:44 -0000
Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with
	qmail-scanner-1.14  (f-prot: 3.12.  Clear:. 
	Processed in 0.101962 secs); 30 Jun 2003 02:59:44 -0000
X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam
X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.101962 secs)
Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80)
  by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 02:59:44 -0000
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:59:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drea Leed <drea@nospam>
To: h-costume@indra.com
Message-ID: <20030629225857.A21747-100000@shell.siscom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: [h-cost] Cool textiles conference
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Because I don't want to feel deprived alone...enjoy!

Drea
----------------------------------
Conference on ancient textiles
http://www.lu.se/klass/textiles/
A book of the proceedings is in progress.

Some of the abstracts reference other components as well such as sheep
growing for wool, pottery used in dyeing, substances coating the cloth, and
dyeing.

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 08:32:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UCWcHP031664
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:32:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UCVSUw004475
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:31:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UCVNNm009050;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:31:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UCVLNm009009
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:31:21 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from Marionetta@aol.com
	by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.15a.208ca7b9 (3972)
	 for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:31:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marionetta@aol.com
Message-ID: <15a.208ca7b9.2c318791@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:31:13 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 25
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1
Subject: [h-cost] plaid linen what period?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO


It's in the mystery fiber ultra discount section, no label on the bolt.   But 
I'm pretty positive it's not a blend, its too scratchy (I'm mildly allergic 
to linen) and too wrinkly not to be 100%.   Guess I'll buy it and maybe do a 
civ war dress out of it.   Thanks all!

Cheers,

Loren
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 09:42:50 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UDgoHP031748
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:42:50 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UDg9Uw009784
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:42:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UDg8IY012392;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:42:08 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UDg5IY012356
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:42:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.26])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 848575EE1C0
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:42:04 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:44:49 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Finally i have finished the embroidered robe francaise with chenille
embroidery.
That is why i was so quiet lately, because i was buisy.
I am very pleased with the result, it looks very like the drawing  i made in
the first place.
I have made 3 significant costumes in my life, Nicoles blue Baroque dress,
my own embroidered suit, and now this fine dress.
Boy am i glad i finally finished it!
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/the_finished_dress.htm

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 10:17:49 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UEHnHP031802
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:17:49 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UEHEUw013119
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:17:14 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UEH9UH002826;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:17:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UEGxUH002569
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:16:59 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from bently (dialport13.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.159.83])
	by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15680
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:16:54 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <00b101c33f12$6569ce60$539fbbd0@bently>
From: "David" <someone@eskimo.com>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:17:51 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Stunning, as always!

Pam Dotson
Everett, WA  USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 6:44 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise


> Finally i have finished the embroidered robe francaise with chenille
> embroidery.
> That is why i was so quiet lately, because i was buisy.
> I am very pleased with the result, it looks very like the drawing  i made
in
> the first place.
> I have made 3 significant costumes in my life, Nicoles blue Baroque dress,
> my own embroidered suit, and now this fine dress.
> Boy am i glad i finally finished it!
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/the_finished_dress.htm
>
> Bjarne
>
>
>
>
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 10:38:55 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UEcsHP000736
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:38:54 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UEbrUw015555
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:37:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UEbqUH018244;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:37:52 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h5UEblUH018129
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:37:48 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for
	<"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCjU10miu7aJPtUCCOHVPked1x8Wmbn0Exg==">; Mon, 30 Jun 2003
	10:36:50 EDT
Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) 
 by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id H3W9DDXM; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:36:50 EDT
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:26:31 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise
Message-ID: <20030630.092631.-692367.0.Seamstrix@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3
From: seamstrix@juno.com
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Fantastic work, Bjarne!!! It looks fabulous on the dress form, I'm sure
it will look even better on the lady who will wear it. Wow!


Karen

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 11:16:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFGdHP000798
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:16:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFG8Uw020246
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:16:09 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFG78Z015868;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:16:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.248])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFG38Z015765
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:16:03 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244])
	by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CC1710EFB4
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:15:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <008f01c33f1a$8166bf80$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6>
From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:15:48 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

As usual when looking at your work, Bjarne, words fail me.

It's stunning.

Dianne
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:44 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise


> Finally i have finished the embroidered robe francaise with chenille
> embroidery.


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 11:49:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFnxHP000902
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:49:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFnOUw023682
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:49:25 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFnL8Z010119;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:49:22 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UFnH8Z010033
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:49:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.26])
	by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C65347FFAB
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:49:16 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000e01c33f1f$8e7eda40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:52:05 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
Subject: [h-cost] Revolution in Fashion.
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Hi.
For those of you, who never got the book, here is a page with lots of the
pictures from the book:
http://www.angelfire.com/retro/thefansite/text/fangallery4.html



Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 12:25:19 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGPIHP000945
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:25:18 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGOQUw027586
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:24:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGONQB009178;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:24:23 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGOKQB009150
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:24:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-032scfairp0414.dialsprint.net ([168.191.193.160]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19X1S0-00035m-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:24:20 -0700
Message-ID: <3F00718E.7060803@faucet.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:21:18 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise
References: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Oh Bjarne.  You are a master of your craft.

Now you really have to come and stay with me at the beach.

(And then I can keep him here to be my embroidery slave 
forever..hahhhaaaahhhaaaaaa!!    Oops--was that my outside voice??)

;)
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 12:26:59 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGQxHP000950
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:26:59 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGQYUw027875
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:26:34 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGQWQB010801;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:26:32 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net
	[207.217.120.22])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGQSQB010739
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:26:28 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from sdn-ap-032scfairp0414.dialsprint.net ([168.191.193.160]
	helo=faucet.net)
	by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
	id 19X1U3-0006Lt-00
	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:26:27 -0700
Message-ID: <3F00720D.7020108@faucet.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:23:25 -0500
From: Melanie Schuessler <melanie@faucet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Melanie's underwear
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030624201656.00a37480@pop3.lfchosting.com>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20030629171022.022aec50@pop-server.mn.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote:

> I've actually had 1/2 spring steel twist on one occasion.  It was in my 
> effigy style corset in the larger front channels which originally held 
> the wider whale bones <...>  Initially I used a double layer of 
> spring steel but they noticably twisted, the twist lessened when I 
> removed one from each casing.  It was quite odd but that is the *only* 
> time I've ever encountered it.

That's odd.  Are the channels straight?  Do they stay straight when you 
lace it up?  The only way I can think that the bones might twist is if 
the channels were curving--like if you could lace the top and the bottom 
together but not the middle.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 12:30:48 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGUmHP000959
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:30:48 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGUKUw028347
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:30:20 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGUIQB013799;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:30:18 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UGUFQB013778
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:30:16 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk
	[195.215.190.26])
	by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 75DBB5EE124
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:30:14 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <000b01c33f25$4b572cd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <drewscph@post12.tele.dk>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
References: <000d01c33f0d$c6a36e70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<3F00718E.7060803@faucet.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:33:10 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Dear Melanie
Thanks for your words, very nice said.
But i better have to walk in a curve far from your home at the beach then!

Bjarne





Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Melanie Schuessler" <melanie@faucet.net>
To: "Historical Costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished the robe francaise


> Oh Bjarne.  You are a master of your craft.
> 
> Now you really have to come and stay with me at the beach.
> 
> (And then I can keep him here to be my embroidery slave 
> forever..hahhhaaaahhhaaaaaa!!    Oops--was that my outside voice??)
> 
> ;)
> Melanie Schuessler
> http://www.faucet.net/costume
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 17:24:38 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULOcHP002068
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:24:38 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULO9Uw001763
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:24:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULO6ZU004648;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:24:06 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from topcat.systemsfirm.net (pcp822591pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net
	[68.49.41.243])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULNxZU004509
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:24:02 -0600 (MDT)
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:23:55 -0400
Message-ID: <A4DF80F6AB5FB442A2E5B8838062D73F0363C1@topcat.systemsfirm.net>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: Re: Bjarne's finished robe francaise
Thread-Index: AcM/TeiKEbSalEVMT2GG2KgKLOzDUQ==
From: "A.Thurman" <athurman@cybergal.com>
To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" <h-costume@indra.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id
	h5ULNxZU004509
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bjarne's finished robe francaise
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

WOW!! Wow wow! That is gorgeous!! Well done!

Allison T. (dramatically understating!)

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Jun 30 17:51:40 2003
Return-Path: <h-costume-bounces@indra.com>
Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3])
	by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULpeHP002119
	for <fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:51:40 -0400
Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
	by www1.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULpBUw005087
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL);
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:51:12 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULpAZU023945;
	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:51:10 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk
	(IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149])
	by net.indra.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ULp6ZU023794
	for <h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:51:07 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from pavilion ([213.78.100.247])3.2.2-GA)
	with SMTP id AEZ25665;	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:50:58 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <01fe01c33f52$4607f2a0$d1754ed5@pavilion>
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
To: "LIST H costume" <h-costume@indra.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:55:06 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Subject: [h-cost] Kid's in Elizabethan costume ?
X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Historical Costume <h-costume@indra.com>
List-Id: Historical Costume <h-costume.mail.indra.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://net.indra.com/pipermail/h-costume>
List-Post: <mailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com>
List-Help: <mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume>,
	<mailto:h-costume-request@mail.indra.com?subject=subscribe>
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

Kid's in Elizabethan costume ?

Does anyone have any pics of kids in Elizabethan costume they can send me
direct tonight please ?

I have had a request to show some at my daughter's school tomorrow, nothing
like lots of notice !

Thanks

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

